How This Works

It has come to my attention that some people are unclear on how this list works. Basically, this is an email message that I put together, composed of comments made to me and my own comments, and which mainly relate to seduction. Seduction in general is off topic for the SS list, and that was the reason I started this list.

This is what is known as a moderated list, in that all messages are sent to me; I read them and pick and choose what to include here. So a lot of the useless traffic is eliminated (eg. I get a lot of compliments, but that won't help you get laid, or I get some patterns which I think belong on the SS list and not here, or I get some rude comments about others which I also don't think help anyone, so I don't include this type of stuff here).

So if you see anything you want to comment on, or if you want to let people know about a great little trick or technique of yours to seduce someone, or if you know about something that would interest the readers (me included) of a seduction list, then write to me please.

I was talking to someone who had trouble finding a woman, and his mate had trouble finding a woman, and I realized that for me, I always fancy a woman who is not single, but either married or with a boyfriend. I found myself saying, you know, to find the woman you want and need and deserve, you really have to be able to take her from someone else, and keep her when others try to do the same. It's quite a concept.

You refer to a website about seducing single women. Whereas Major Mark writes his book about seducing married women. There are moral questions certainly ... is it right to steal / covet etc., from another man ? But essentially, if you cannot, you are not a man, but a wimp.

I know, I lived as a Frustrated chump for years, even within marriage I was not dominant, and now I find it essential to know the manliness of being a little dominant when necessary, and how a girl needs that domination ... a man she can't quite control, to quote Ross J.

Today, I say that being able to steal a woman from a lesser man ... “able” not necessarily meaning actually going about it, but able to do so ... is much the same as keeping the woman you feel for once you find her. I mean, I'm with a girl half my age, and every day I feel I have to keep this girl happy and satisfied and wanting me rather than any other man. She has many men interested and they try to seduce her every day.

The point I'm making is that, although there are some women who are single and worth pursuing, the club of attached woman seems more worth targeting. And I find myself shocked at the lack of morality in this idea, but it is nature. We are natural and this is how it is.

(Commenting on: “If you wear scuffed shoes, it could cost you, claiming that women make snap judgments about you based on your shoes. I find this hard to believe, and if a woman is going to make a judgment like this, in my book she falls into the stupid-ass flake category.” My comment is that I have had women make decisions about me on less, so it doesn't surprise me.)

Women will make initial snap judgments based upon many things like this: hair cut, grooming etc. Consider it a total points system. Most “average” guys start off with zero points, and then everything a woman likes or dislikes either adds to or subtracts from your point total.

If you are fortunate enough to be very good looking, you start out with lots of points. If you talk with bad tonality, you could instantly lose lots of points. Accumulate enough points and you get what you want.

Wearing unscuffed shoes does not take a lot of time, and will earn you points before you even say a word (with the women who care) so why not pay attention ? You are responsible for the image you project; what are you saying in the way you dress? Do you believe it will attract the women you are after ? SS will cut across the limitations of appearance, style, money, social standing, etc., but why add additional work to your seduction when paying attention to minor details can start you off positively ?

My Comment: I believe in using everything you have to accomplish your goals. That includes appealing to all senses (your appearance, your smell, your sound, etc.)

(Commenting on Horn Dog: Rather than drama, a more fitting word might be “passion.” Women are creatures of emotion, and they gauge the quality of their relations with others by the amount of emotional exchange that occurs between them, positive or negative. Dr. Joy Browne always tells her male callers on national radio that women would rather be loved than fought with, but they'd rather be fought with than be ignored.)

I don't think this is a situation where “passion” is a better word than drama. In my life, passion and drama are very different, and while I believe that passion has a theatrical quality in some situations and use, drama is something that I like to avoid in my relationships.

That being said, Rick's advice is excellent. I get to avoid the drama I don't want and get to provide a woman with the drama she craves.

(Commenting on My Comment: Despite your negative opinion, it seems like this stuff isn't that bad since you say “in theory it should work” and then go recommend some of his other products. It seems that his tapes didn't work for you, but the products look legitimate in general. According to you, this may not be the best place to spend your money for this type of product, but that's not quite the same as calling him a fraud.)

I like Bandler's story about Subliminal tapes. Apparently he was very interested in finding out if they worked, so he used subliminal technology to record a tape with subliminal messages telling people that they were totally worthless and would never amount to anything, added in suggestions that they would feel terrible, etc. Then he gave them out telling people that they contained messages of positive attitude building etc. People responded to his posthypnotic suggestion, and not the subliminals on the tapes.

I used several subliminal stop smoking tapes and they never worked, (I have since quit, but not due to the tapes), and while I have a positive opinion about the theory, in practice I have never seen any positive benefit attributed to them.

(Commenting on Rod: I was thinking today about how much better I have been doing with women now than in the past, and what I am now doing differently. I think one of the best things we can do is to stroke our women's egos in the right way. I think this is best done by reassuring them of their insecurities and showing appreciation for the things they put effort into. Even for good-looking women, lots of them are insecure about their looks. Tell them how beautiful / sexy they are—often.)

Lots of women also worry about losing their mate, or they worry that he doesn't care enough for them. So I'll tell them how much I like them, shit like that. For example, I just sent a message to this one babe I know saying, “I may have lost all sorts of money at the horse track yesterday, but I still consider myself damn lucky for knowing you.” Let's just say that her response was fantastic.

A year ago, I wouldn't do shit like that. It's fucking cheesy, wimpy, unmanly and sappy. I swallowed that aspect of my pride, and being a wuss once in awhile has really gotten me much more trim than I did before.

I don't know if others suffer from the same dilemma, but allowing myself to be less macho for a couple minutes a day has made a huge difference. Bottom line: stroke those egos. Send those sweet little messages every now and then even if you don't feel all that strongly. Think of all the women who complain their boyfriends / husbands don't say “I love you,” or send flowers or shit like that. By doing crap like what I outlined above, you are distinguishing yourself from those people that women complain about all the time.

My Comment: Sometimes the obvious works best. You might pick up a copy of Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People ... it has some very wise advice. Not new technology, but some good, common sense. My informal research (talking to women I am picking up) indicates that, contrary to popular belief, there are a lot of romantic men out there. More than we think. In studies, apparently there was no difference in people's perception of someone who provided sincere praise or insincere flattery. Apparently Major Mark was right, it all goes in.

(Commenting on Joe: For example, they mention that if you wear scuffed shoes, it could cost you ...)

There's a book out by Dr. Jama Clark called What the Hell Do Women Really Want ?. She also does seminars on this subject, and how men and women can get more people of the opposite sex in their lives. The way you dress ... including shoes ... is a factor in attracting / not attracting.

“I teach that women look at men's shoes and try to figure out the man's social status and self-esteem by the kind of shoes he wears. While shoes are not deal breakers for all women, they are status cues to a lot of us. Women agree that they do look at and judge men by their shoes. Let's just say that to us, your shoes are clues about your affluence and personal standards. Some shoes just look nerdy, while other shoes spell class ... At my men's group, where we discuss and practice these things (one of my clients) told us that several women at work had noticed and highly approved of his new shoes. Are his shoes going to make a difference in getting girls to go out with him ? Maybe not, but they gave him one more bargaining tool which he used to influence the women of his choice.” (copyright 1994..Island Flower Books).

If you really doubt the importance of shoes to women, I have two words for you: Imelda Marcos. :)

And doesn't this go to something that was mentioned in the last post ... that men buy with logic and women buy with emotion ? The idea is to get a sale / phone number / date / lay, and it makes sense to go with something that works on the target.

I know I've also weeded out women for what may be considered small things ... like smoking, tattoos, etc. Why wouldn't they treat us the same way ?

(Comments on Rod's concerns about wuss-ness)

Romance, compliments, and reassurance are still good things to use, as long as it is not from a position of supplication. One can be a dark, dangerous, jerkish type and still use romance strategically to get what he wants. Many operators I have watched used tons of romance to reel an HB in, then once they have them, use their mustache twisting dastardliness to keep them aroused.

Anton LaVey speaks that we should give kindness only to those who make it worth our while, and not waste it on the ungrateful. While that's a little extreme, it does provide food for thought. Robert J. Ringer, in his book Looking out for Number One, talks about “value for value relationships,” where we get what we put in. We should eliminate from our lives any relationships that aren't “value for value.”

I think that applies well to relationships based on supplication ... get rid of them. If you are getting enough of what you want in return, it's ok to be generous and kind. Ellen Kreidman's book Light Her Fire is (on the surface) a guide to supplicative wussness. But, when read from the SS standpoint, it is an excellent guide for understanding how women think, what they want, and why they do some of the things they do. I highly recommend it.

For those times when romance is strategically advisable, this is a good source book. Ellen says women are, at their core, generally insecure to one degree or another. They need continuing reassurance you care about them and that you find them attractive. She recommends that each time you come through the door at home, spend about 15 minutes just listening to her about her day. Give her a hug. Ellen says doing that will almost always guarantee you hours of peace and cooperation after that. It has worked well for me.

Ironically, toward the end she also says that women like men who are strongly confident, not weak pushovers.

I was re-reading some old seduction messages and come across Craig's Truth or Dare post. Don't know how to get ahold of him so I could ask myself, but I'm wondering: daring the girls to kiss each other is all well and good, but what happens if the girls dare the guys to kiss ? How does one avoid that coming up, or deal with it if it does ?

Good question ... I forgot to cover this ! Most girls don't get turned on by guys kissing, but nevertheless, I make two rules before every Truth or Dare game. One, no gay shit, and two, nothing that will get me in trouble with my neighbors or my dad.

My Comment: Personally, I kind of doubt that that would come up. It is just a known thing that women with women is different from guys with guys. If it did, so what ? You gonna kiss a guy because some woman dares you to do it ? I can assure you, there's nothing she could promise me to get that dog to hunt !

This was a damn smooth number close I pulled last night. I can't believe I even thought of it—drunk as I was.

I was at the bar with some buddies, and we were playing pool with these three dames. One of them split, and the other two stuck around with us until closing time. They kept saying, “OK, we're going to leave now !” and shit like that, but they weren't going anywhere.

I was ambivalent about getting a number, but they were sticking around for some reason. So I said, “Hey come here.” I took a bar napkin and set it on the table. I said, “You see this ?” They said, “Yes.” I took out my pen and set it on top of the bar napkin. I said, “You see this ?”

Sure enough ... a phone number magically appeared on the napkin. My one buddy says jovially, “I hope it's not any of that 555-1212 shit.” Melissa says, “No, it's a real number !” And then to prove it to me, she turns to her friend and says, “Jennifer, what's my phone number ?” Jennifer recites the number, but I just fold the napkin and say, “You know what, I'm not even going to look, because I trust you.” And I put the napkin in my pocket.

For some reason that line about not looking because I trust them really touched their hearts and they both said, “Awwwww ...” Whatever. So that was fun. The thing I like about this approach is that there would always something to talk about afterwards. Even if the dame wrote “Go fuck yourself” or something, I would still get a kick out of it. Neat stuff.

My Comment: Interesting, but I think the key has to be what you said and did before you did the above.

I have two books that you might find interesting.

The first is Seduction by Astrology by Ren Alexander and Geraldine Rose. It has some general descriptions about the signs, but also has tactics to follow according to the sign.

The second is more intense. It is Women, Sex, & Astrology by Sarah Bartlett. It is more descriptive and uses stories (mythology) to give insight. Some of the language and imagery may be useful for pattern language. It used not only the star signs (Leo, Gemini, etc.) but the Venus and Eros signs and goes into detail in the relevance.

For instance, a conflict in Sun & Venus may explain why a Scorpio isn't as sexually free / adventurous as commonly thought. It may be tougher to use because you have to incorporate all 3 signs, and for that, accurate birthdate and year is necessary (the charts are included with directions). It may be tougher because of women's reluctance to reveal their ages.

The author includes typical fantasies a women might have / be stimulated by for each of her signs. I have found it to be pretty accurate and recommend the book.