2010/11/11

Crazy Because It Always Works

Sometimes breaking down resistance is just a matter of keeping at it.
Away from it all

PZN:
So I initially met this girl at a dinner organized by a variety of law firms. She’s really cute. Typical blonde, blue-eyed, petite, nice ass, nice titties. That evening, I was just socializing with people and she knew one of the people I was talking to, so she came to join them. We were all holding a glass of wine so I introduced myself to her.

I remember feeling particularly horny that night, and I was looking deep into her eyes, holding eye contact (side note: after I slept with her, she told me she knew I wanted her from the moment I looked at her. Problem with hot bitches: they’re too confident. So I told her teasingly “The real reason I was looking at you so intensely was because of how ugly were lol. I didn’t know how ugly girls could be”. Of course, said teasingly while hugging her, otherwise, it’s just going to hurt her).

Anyway, I began speaking to her about her interests, and where she sees herself in 5 years. Always ask open-ended questions so that she doesn’t give you the typical boring responses.

I asked her name and told her maybe we could continue the conversation later on, because I enjoyed speaking to her. She said “yeah, maybe.” That meant not enough comfort / attraction. So I added her on Facebook and sent her a little message 2-3 weeks later. I asked her if she’d like to do lunch sometime or something. She responds a week later with “Sorry, I really can’t, I have a boyfriend. But maybe I’ll see you around.” So I dropped it.

I recently saw her at this public event. She was in line to get some food. I approach her and act very friendly as if nothing ever happened. I start telling her about what I’ve been doing lately (salsa, rafting with my buddies, renovating my whole place, modifying my car’s grille, etc.). Basically, I make her feel as though my life is fucking great. I ask about her life and she gives the typical answers like “Things are good, whatever.”

Anyway, at some point she starts asking me questions about myself. That’s usually a pretty good sign that it’s on. When a girl asks you what you’re doing here, where you live, etc. Anyway, I feel useless waiting with her in line so I ask her what she’s doing in line at a Subway restaurant, and she says she’s really hungry. I’m like, “Why are you getting Subway ? There’s so much better shit around here. You sure you don’t want to try something new ? There’s a place I know around here that’s way better than Subway. Come on, be open-minded and try something new.”

I take her to a supermarket and tell her to pick something there. She’s like “This is the special place you know ?”. In a very naïve voice, I respond “Oh, you know this place ?” Anyway, she’s kinda angry but laughing about it. I tell her “Look, there’s more choice here and we can get some dark chocolate for dessert. You like dark ?” She says she loves it. Insta-date.

We leave and we go eat somewhere on a public table. I felt she still wasn’t super comfortable with me. And that day, I didn’t particularly feel amazing, so I decided to entertain her with some funny positive stuff because nothing was coming to mind in the moment. I show her some weird application on the iPhone. Like the application with the really acute sound only people less than 25 years of age can hear. I have a whole bunch of little gimmicks I use when I’m either in a bad state or simply when I want to kill time.

At some point in the conversation, I felt I no longer had to try to re-initiate and I felt she got a lot more comfortable than the way she was when I met her at the line-up. As I was playing with my phone, I asked her if she has a cellphone. She said yes. I asked to see it and made fun of it because it’s one of those old school phones with an antenna that sticks out lol. She told me she lives a bit far away, so I ask her if she has a local number or if it’s going to cost me $4.25 a minute to call her. She says “No, it’s local !”

I take down her number and give her mine. We keep talking a bit and have some dark chocolate together. Then, I tell her I have to get going soon and I asked her what she’s doing today. This was around 2:00 p.m. She said she has to go home and prepare dinner because she has girlfriends coming over during the evening. I say, “Yeah I know but, dinner’s like at 7:00 pm, it’s only 2:00 pm.” Then I don’t let her respond, I simply add “Hey listen, I feel really comfortable around you and I know we’re both having a really good time. Let’s chill for another half hour, there’s somewhere really cool I want to go to, and I really want to show you this secret place. It’s really peaceful and natural.”

She agrees and says “Ok, but only for 30 minutes.” I’m like, “It’s probably going to be less than that anyway. You can leave whenever you want, I just want you to have fun !” Anyway, we take her car (didn’t have mine that day), and head to this place. It’s a really cool place near the river. We walk along the shore and sit on one of the big rocks. We keep talking and I tell her I really enjoy coming to this place because it’s close to the city but at the same time, it feels so far away from all the noise. We just listen to the sound of the water.

Note: The whole time, from the beginning of the interaction to this point, I have done a lot of casual kinoLook up this term. Touching the shoulder. Helping her get out of the car. Holding her hand when we were walking on the rocks as to prevent her from falling. This is why it’s good to do a crazy activity because you can play your dominant heroic role as a man and “help” her and “save” her from the danger. You have to make her feel the adventure.

Anyway, I tell her I feel comfortable with her and that when I woke up this morning, the last thing I was thinking about was seeing her again, having some great conversation, and coming to sit by the shore to listen to the water, the leaves, and the wind. She says she wasn’t expecting this either, it is really unusual and spontaneous. I tell her “the best moments in my life have always been the ones that happened by surprise, spontaneously.” She says “me too”. I think of what a friend of mine used to say: “If it’s meant to be, it’s up to me !”

I tell her we should leave and start thinking of how I could get her at my place. Now, here’s the thing. I really didn’t need to take her back to my place. If I had to re-do the whole thing, I would have saved all the trouble and simply let her go and get in touch with her later. She would have been mine, guaranteed. But I like to challenge myself. So I thought to myself “How could I possibly get her back to my place ?”

There were 2 things I needed to do. First was to get her in front of my apartment building, second was to get her upstairs. The first was simple; I simply asked her if she didn’t mind giving me a ride. But for the second, I needed to find an excuse to get her upstairs. Obviously, when I bring the girl back to her own doorstep, it’s pretty simple to go in. You simply say “Listen, I don’t want to sound impolite, but I really need to use your bathroom or I’m going to pee myself.” Once you’re in, you just look around, find things to talk about, ask for a glass of water, and you’re setLook up this term. But the opposite isn’t as easy.

So as we’re walking back to her car, I start asking her what kind of music she listens to. She tells me this and that. I ask her if she’s familiar with classical music and opera. She tells me she really enjoys opera but doesn’t know much about plain classical music. For the record, I am in love with classical music and opera. I listen to opera music almost every day. It’s an acquired taste though.

Anyway, I ask her if she’s familiar with Mozart’s “The Magic Flute.” She says she isn’t and I tell her “I can’t believe it, you say you like Opera and you’re not familiar with 'The Magic Flute ?' There’s something I have to show you on Youtube, you’re going to love it.” Then I change topics and we talk about something else. We get to my place and I tell her where to park. I tell her, “I only have about 5 minutes because I have to head across town, but I would like to lend you a CD and show you a Youtube video before I leave.” I tell her, “You have to promise me one thing though, only listen to the CD when you’re relaxed, maybe when you’re cooking on your own. And tell me how it makes you feel.”

Of course, there is no fucking CD.

Anyway, she promises and we go up, I tell her “Ok, but you can’t come in, because it’s a huge fucking mess.” She says “Ok.” I go in and I say, “Well actually, come in for 2 minutes but please don’t look around too much.” Of course, it wasn’t a mess; it was just a bit dusty. So she says “It’s not a mess !”

Anyway, I pretend to look for the CD and tell her hang on, let me show you this Youtube video first. I play a few very unique opera excerpts for her and she loves them. By the way, the stuff I play is not heavy, it’s stuff even a guy who only listens to hip-hop would enjoy. Anyway, I then play a Salsa and ask her to guess what kind of music this is. She guesses Merengue. I’m like “Wrong !”

I take her hand and I’m like “get up.” She’s like “No, I’m not dancing …” I say, “I thought you said you were open-minded. Open-minded people try new things.” She objects again “No, it’s not that …” I respond and I grab her “Dude, I’m not going to rape you ! I’m too tired to do that. It’s just going to be a tiny dance and then I have to go.” I dance with her. I ask her if she likes it. She says yes.

At this point, I was feeling horny, I wanted to kiss her. My ground rule is, I only escalate or kiss when I feel it inside of me, otherwise, it fucks up. She feels you’re not being real. Anyway, I kiss her cheek and notice she moves away a bit. I ask her if she feels allergic to a kiss on the cheek. She says “No !” I’m like “What about on the other cheek ?” She’s like “No.” I kiss the other cheek and keep on dancing. I kiss her on the cheek again a few minutes later. Then I kiss her on the lips and she reciprocates. Then I stop and I say, “Let’s not go too fast. I know we feel really comfortable together and we had an adventurous day, but let’s take our time.” The reason I did this is because of my experience. Sometimes you know you will get buyer’s remorse, sometimes you know you have to fuck. I felt like she was submissive and I could have fucked her but the sex wouldn’t have been amazing and she may even have felt remorse in retrospect.

I tell her we should see each other again sometime if she liked. She said, “Yes, I’d really like to.” Hence, the power of not moving in too quickly.

Learn the art of seduction with others, participate in discussions, make friends, get exclusive content. It's free ! Why wait for your life to get better ? Join the Cliff's List Community now !

I text her back and forth with regular “What’s up ?” messages and I tell her “We should get together as soon as we both have a minute.” I decide to call her up about a week later to see if she’d like to eat at the restaurant. Usually, I’m the cheapest fuck and I never do restaurants on first dates because I just think it’s retarded. Anything but restaurants. I like taking them karting, rafting, kayaking, cliff-jumping, amusement parks, etc. Anything crazy because it always works. But I was busy that weekend and decided to hit up a restaurant not far from my place. A bring your own wine place. Decided I would pay casually just to see what would happen.

Oh by the way, I told her to pick up the wine. When the check came I told her “It’s my pleasure to take care of it. You got the wine.” Just to let her know, I’m not one of those losers who will pay for dinner if you don’t invest. You took the time to pick a good wine, I’ll get the food. But again guys, dinner dates aren’t my thing. In the future, I’m only going to do the fun dates. There are enough boring guys taking women for dinner and drinks. I don’t want to associate with them. I like being different.

After dinner, I told her I’m craving for something chocolatey. We went and grabbed some dessert and I asked her if she has anything against scary movies. She said she loves scary movies. Great. Finally, a girl that likes scary movies and not retarded chick flicks. We rent a scary movie. I make sure I rent something not too gory. I usually like to rent older scary movies because they’re cheaper (lol) and I just love the classics like Halloween, A Nightmare on Elm Street, etc.

Get the movie, come back to my place. Also forgot to mention, there’s no way to watch TV at my place unless you’re on my bed. It’s purposely set-up that way for dates and for my own evenings when I can’t fall asleep. We get on my bed. I cuddle with her. I light up a shisha. I hold her, I kiss her cheek again. I play with her hair. I begin making out. The rest just flows. Halfway into having sex, I tell her I want to take a shower and take her to the shower and finish making love to her there. I always do that with women. Because making love in the shower just brings everything to a whole other level.

For those of you wondering, I obviously gave her my general speeches about how I’m not a ONSLook up this term guy. I feel that everything is more enjoyable when two people connect together and care about each other. I also explained I don’t rush into things just to get comfortable, I like to take the time to get to know someone and making love is just one of the ways that allows two people to feel closer and more intimate together, etc.

When she was about to leave, she got a little needy and asked me if I do this kind of thing with a lot of women. I told her “I don’t like it when people ask me about my personal life because I feel it’s a lack of respect. And I am very picky about the women I choose to share my intimacy with.” It’s all a question of setting up the right expectation from the get go.

Promo
Alan Roger Currie
Learn from Mode One author Alan Roger Currie in his first European Speaking Engagement !

Alan Roger Currie, author of the internationally best-selling paperback for single men, Mode One: Let the Women Know What You’re Really Thinking, will be appearing at the Direct Dating Summit in London, UK on Saturday, November 20 & 21, 2010 at the Cavendish Conference Centre in Central London, England.

Learn from the top “Direct Approach” Authors, Gurus and Dating Coaches how to meet, attract and ultimately seduce women using nothing more than a high degree of confidence and upfront, straightforward honesty. Other speakers scheduled to appear are David X, Badboy, and a couple of other special guests. The event is organized by Sasha, and tickets for this event are selling very fast.

For more information, visit here to get your free “Quick Start Guide To Direct Game” audio mp3.

2
Your rating: None Average: 2 (4 votes)

14 comments

TheNextPhase's picture
Thu, 11/11/2010 - 13:06

I like the way you handled

I like the way you handled the dinner date, having her get the wine. I think dinner dates are given a lot of bad publicity lol. It's good to give them something interesting and unusual, but dinner can be interesting if you're showing her something she's never tried before. The only issue is avoiding coming off like a check book, and it sounds like you did that quite well.

Radu's picture
Fri, 11/12/2010 - 12:30

I don't like your style

I just dropped on this website because of a reference. And i can't believe the shit i just read.
It could be just me, but i really don't like this kind of fucking with girls.
If you want to have sex with a woman, why the hell don't you tell her right from the begging that this is what you want from her? Why do you have to lie to her and play tricks with her in order to have sex.
Man, maybe other guys appreciate the kind of games you play with girls, but i honestly don't.

ModeOne4Ever's picture
Mon, 11/15/2010 - 10:05

I'm with Radu . . .

I just can't find it in myself to go through all of these gyrations to get with a woman. I'm all about being bold, upfront, unapologetic and provocatively straightforward with women about my honest desires, interests and intentions.

I don't even like the fact that my promo ad is underneath this "indirect" field report.

To each their own though.

Christophe's picture
Mon, 11/15/2010 - 23:59

Promo Box

It is funny that you mention the promo box. At first, I confused it with an Author Box and thought :"No...that can't be from Alan Roger Currie!".

I have nothing against Indirect Approach but that one sounds really pushy. She never seemed really comfortable with you. She apparently just felt in your arms because of your perseverance and small manipulations rather than because of your charm and attraction you created. And finally when she decides to get intimate with you eventhough since the beginning something was holding her back, you reply "“I don’t like it when people ask me about my personal life because I feel it’s a lack of respect. And I am very picky about the women I choose to share my intimacy with.”" WOW...

In my opinion, she didn't trust you and didn't feel you for some reasons but eventually gave up. Doesn't sounds like an inspiring story, really. Rather depressing.

TheNextPhase's picture
Fri, 11/12/2010 - 18:54

Think about it this way

First, no question, direct does work. But it doesn't work every time.

If you read the story, this girl was not comfortable with him in the beginning. It's not clear if the "boyfriend" was real or not but obviously the comfort wasn't there. If he'd come out and said "I wanna fuck you" she probably would have felt that she had good reason for not being comfortable and moved on.

I don't think he "lied and played tricks," he simply showed her that he was actually a nice, fun, adventurous guy, someone she might actually want to have sex with.

He also showed her that she meant enough to him as a person to establish some kind of connection with her rather than just walking up and blurting out what he wanted like a guy choosing a porn rag off the rack.

Secondly, this wasn't some chick in a club, this was a woman he met through a professional function. Those kinds of caveman tactics would have been completely inappropriate and may have even had consequences for his reputation.

Finally...

Seduction is meant to be a fun process. Sure, you'd get hard if a chick just came up and asked for a fuck (assuming she was attractive to you.) But the chase is also fun, for both men and women. Women like feeling pursued, knowing the guy is going through the work it takes to get her.

ModeOne4Ever's picture
Mon, 11/15/2010 - 10:02

I don't necessarily agree

"Seduction is meant to be a fun process." Depends on what you call "fun," and more importantly, it depends on what you want (long-term, monogamous sex? short-term, monogamous sex? long-term, non-monogamous sex? one-night stand or weekend fling?)

For the millionth time, being 'direct' is not solely and specifically about approaching a woman and saying "I want to fuck you" within the first 15-30 seconds of the conversation. For me, exhibiting Mode One Behavior is primarily about NOT BEING FULL OF SHIT. Not being misleading, deceptive, vague, and/or ambiguous about what your true desires, interests and intentions are.

Indirect methods can sometimes lead a woman into your bed, but it can also lead you into the dreaded "Friend Zone." Also, being indirect can compromise your reputation too.

Xtasee's picture
Sat, 11/13/2010 - 18:31

Gray Matter...

Radu I understand where you're coming from. After reading this article, I did get a sense that there was a little manipulation and lying on PZN's part. But I also get what TheNextPhase is coming from too, in that he did it that way as a means of getting his foot in the door, to show her what a nice, fun and adventurous guy he is. With that said, I had to put my own two cents in, as I think this article presents a great topic for discussion, moreso than a lay report about a fellow professional PZN met.

First of all, I need to address what TheNextPhase wrote. I like what you have to say, but I had some other things that I wanted to add to that discussion. You first talked about how if he had gone direct on this girl, that she would have been turned off. I agree and disagree. If PZN had come off direct in the manner you describe, and simply just walked up to her and said, "Let's fuck!" then hell yeah she would have been turned off. But just because you go direct doesn't mean you immediately show your hand and tell the girl you want to fuck. Direct simply means that you communicate to the girl that you are interested in her, versus indirect which is more of a social type of communication style, which anybody does when asking for directions, or commenting on the weather. Indirect is a common communication style, whereas direct simply tells the girl that you are attracted to her.

In my experience, direct has worked every single time. That's not to say though, that I go up to girls and tell them, "Let's fuck!" Hell no. So I have to tell you that I agree that there are going to be instances, especially if you are socially awkward, where direct doesn't work. But that is not to say that direct correlates the way you described it. Not at all. The way I go direct is to walk up to a girl and tell her straight up, with a genuine, heartfelt emotion, "Hey I know this is kind of awkward but I just had to come up and tell you that you are the cutest girl that I have seen all day and I just had to come over and talk to you or else I'd kick myself for the rest of the day." (credit Sinn) In no way shape or form did I say the word "fuck", "sex", or any variation of that word. I just communicated that I'm interested in her. And what's she gunna say? I'll tell you what's gunna happen. The girl will be so shocked, as I'm probably the only guy that day that had the balls to go up and do that. And after that shock, she will smile (it always happens) and introduce herself. That is how I do direct and it works.

Second, you discuss about how this woman was a professional, not a girl in a club. I agree that caveman tactics would have spoiled his reputation and ruined the setLook up this term. But direct doesn't mean caveman tactics. And a huge misconception in the community is that girls in a club are easy, dumb and slutty. That is complete bullshit. You have probably dated multiple girls that have gone clubbing, and I'm sure all of them didn't fit that stereotype. Women are women, there is no difference. They go to clubs just like we go to restaurants to eat good food. It's just a part of life. But girls in a club are no different from professional women. It's a different atmosphere and environment, but the girls themselves are still great people, regardless of where they are at.

I agree with your closing point that the chase is the fun part of seduction. But that still doesn't mean that you can lie and tell a girl you have a CD for her in order to just get her to come fuck. That's just lying. You can have the chase and not lie. I also don't like guys who disrespect women. I mean you can tease a girl, but telling her you were looking at her so intensely because she's ugly? Even if that is a tease, it really doesn't sound alpha. It sounds try hard and outright mean, no matter how you say it. Maybe teasing her and saying how her nose wiggled when she smiles (credit Mystery and Style). But there's a huge difference in teasing and being an asshole doucher.

The biggest thing about the Community that this article brings to light is ethics. At what point do we draw the black and white line amongst all the gray matter that exists in the seduction of a woman? When is a little white lie okay, and when is it just plain wrong? I personally feel that there is just too much lying and negativity out there nowadays. The ironic thing is that a lot of the guys that get into the Community are the ones who despise the asshole and douche bag boyfriends that these hot girls have, while they end up becoming the very thing they hate! Maybe I may be flawed in my thinking and I invite anyone else to throw in their own thoughts on this issue. Game on fellas!

X

ModeOne4Ever's picture
Mon, 11/15/2010 - 10:14

Xtasee makes some great points...

Xtasee said, "If PZN had come off direct in the manner you describe, and simply just walked up to her and said, "Let's fuck!" then hell yeah she would have been turned off. But just because you go direct doesn't mean you immediately show your hand and tell the girl you want to fuck. Direct simply means that you communicate to the girl that you are interested in her, versus indirect which is more of a social type of communication style, which anybody does when asking for directions, or commenting on the weather. Indirect is a common communication style, whereas direct simply tells the girl that you are attracted to her."

Totally agree. A lot of guys I talk to and interact with on message boards & discussion forums seem to think being direct and/or Mode One is all about going up to a woman, and immediately saying, "Hey! I want to fuck you!" Uhm, no. That is not what Mode One Behavior, or direct behavior in general, is all about.

Being direct is about being honest first and foremost about what your true purpose is for approaching a woman in the first place. You don't have to exhibit "caveman tactics" to be direct. You just have to be honest, straightforward, and authentic.

Mode One = Letting women know your true romantic and/or sexual desires, interests and intentions within the first 3-to-5 minutes of a conversation;

Mode Two = Approaching a woman, and first engaging in her in a lengthy conversation that is both flattering and entertaining to prove to her that you are a "likable" person and that you are a 'nice guy' and a 'gentleman,' and THEN you let the woman know your true desires and interests in a vague, ambiguous, 'beat-around-the-bush' type manner

Mode Three = When you either a) fail to approach a woman at all, or b) you approach a woman and initiate a conversation with her, but at no point in the conversation do you let the woman know that you have a romantic and/or sexual interest in her

Mode Four = When your approach and conversation with a woman is full of bitter insults and/or harsh, subjective criticisms toward the female gender in general

Xtasee says, "I agree with your closing point that the chase is the fun part of seduction. But that still doesn't mean that you can lie and tell a girl you have a CD for her in order to just get her to come fuck. That's just lying. You can have the chase and not lie. I also don't like guys who disrespect women. I mean you can tease a girl, but telling her you were looking at her so intensely because she's ugly? Even if that is a tease, it really doesn't sound alpha. It sounds try hard and outright mean, no matter how you say it."

I agree

Radu's picture
Sat, 11/13/2010 - 20:29

Thanks Xtasee. You had some

Thanks Xtasee. You had some really good points and i feel pretty much the same way to a certain extend.
Like you mentioned, it's not about saying "let's fuck", it's about letting the girl know in the best possible way you can about what you want from her and then let her decide whether she is on the same page as you or not.
If this girl would have rejected him because he would have let her know what was his real intentions then yeah, he might not have fucked her. SO, what? maybe that would have been a lot better than robbing your self of self-esteem and self-confidence when playing tricks and lying.
It's true that when you fuck her, you feel great, but my question is, was that fuck actually worth? if you are playing tricks to get sex, then what do you do when you have no more tricks? what if you meet a woman that you really like and later find out that all this tricks works only until a certain point and after that, when she figures out who you really are and she starts playing tricks on you, what then?....you are the one being fucked

Anyway...my point is that, yeah it's good that you fucked her...but if you do this kind of tricks, games and lies with all the girls so that you can get sex...then you are just as fucked as everybody else, you're just another guy who mastered very well the art of being a clown in hopes that the girl will admire your "craziness" and give you some sex...

TheNextPhase's picture
Sun, 11/14/2010 - 16:49

1) Let's fuck: this was an

1) Let's fuck: this was an exaggerated example meant to illustrate a point. The fact is, the girl knew he wanted her (as she later tells him) and at the same time she was not feeling much comfort from him. Had he gone direct, he would have been blown out, simple as that. His instinct told him this, so he went indirect and got her.

2) Club girl vs. professional woman: the issue here is not the "type of woman" but the setting. I didn't say anything about "club girls" vs. "professional women", I said "chick in a club" vs. "woman he met at a professional function." The context is what matters.

3) "Little White Lies," let's face it, that's what it was and chicks do it too. If he'd said "I'm really rich and go on all kinds of crazy vacations all over the world every 2 weeks and the girls with me get to come" to get her into bed that would have been one thing, but inventing a CD as an excuse to invite her inside is no different that a chick "accidentally" bumping into you when she knows you're going to be somewhere. Normal women are not offended when they learn the truth of such things, they generally find it charming.

It's all well and good to talk about "ethics" but lets face it, the community refers to what it does as "game." It's not really about "lying," it's about giving the girl enough space to realize you're a great guy when going straight at her with your interest would otherwise scare her off.

ModeOne4Ever's picture
Mon, 11/15/2010 - 10:16

Don't agree with #3

Just because women tell "little white lies" doesn't mean a man has to.

I never lie to a woman to get laid. Never. I'd rather be completely honest about my desires and interests ... and get REJECTED ... then to lie to a woman and/or mislead a woman and get laid. That's just how I roll.

For me, the "end does not justify the means." I'm all about a bold approach filled with balls out confidence.

PZN's picture
Thu, 12/16/2010 - 12:57

To each his own lol

I've been skimming through all of these comments and I'm just thinking, different strokes for different folks. I don't think anyone should give anyone lessons on how to live their lives. Behind every pick-up, there is some level of manipulation, or if you want, persuasion. Whether you go in completely indirect or you go in with "Hey, I know this is unusual and I don't generally do this but I just had to meet you because that's what my instinct told me to do" does not matter. What matters is whether or not the words you are saying are congruent with the way you are saying them. I've gone it very direct and I've gone in very indirect. There's no BEST way. If ModeOne likes direct, great. If XYZ likes indirect, great. You have to find what works for you and there's no 100% successful method. Anyone claiming that is just trying to market a useless product. Everyone fails.

What some of you equate to games, deception and manipulation, I equate to persuasion, convincing and playing the game. When people read posts, they read exactly that, posts. You have absolutely no idea about who I am, who she is, where this took place, my tonality, my body language. We all know how the words play very little role in human interactions. Women are all so similar yet they're all so different. Going in direct with one girl and cutting through the crap may work with her but another girl may need some "plausible deniability" in order to give in. Every girl has gone through different life experiences and you need to read her. The merits of each case are specific to that case. One thing I despise about the Community are all-encompassing rules self-proclaimed gurus come up with simply to make a quick buck. "It's all about being direct man", "It's all about kinoLook up this term man". I hate to burst your bubble, but it ain't. You need to be a cameleon. Every interaction is different and magical for its own unique attributes. If you're having generic interactions by always going in with similar openers or routines, you're not living life to its fullest and experiencing the true magic of seduction. The butterflies. The uncertainty. The rush.

Direct approaches work. But for me, they've never been the best for very hot women. I like to go in indirect, gain her trust, tease her and always keep her guessing. After a while, you simply get a natural instinct for this stuff. You read the women and you know what would appeal to her. It's as though people here are basing themselves on a simple post to imagine all the intricate details and offer potential and speculative alternatives.

Many people also think indirect means having no balls. Bullshit. I understand that direct approaches could cut through a lot of bullshit with words but often you don't even need words because actions speak louder than them. My attitude is generally: Indirect with WORDS, very direct with ACTIONS.

Once again, everything is subjective and every person has to find what works for them. Don't force your viewpoints on other people. Say "What works for me is X" not "What you should do is X because Y sucks". That's immature.

ModeOne4Ever's picture
Sun, 12/19/2010 - 11:51

Agree with some things said, Disagree with other points...

PZN said, "Behind every pick-up, there is some level of manipulation, or if you want, persuasion."

Alan Roger Currie: There is a big difference between manipulation and persuasion. Manipulation involves some degree of dishonest/deceitful behavior, and behavior that is misleading and self-serving. Persuasion, on the other hand, is simply when you sway someone's decision-making by highlighting advantages and benefits that the person did not consciously think of.

I have never been a fan of lying to women to get them in bed, misleading women to get them in bed, or emotionally manipulating women to get them in bed.

PZN said, "You have to find what works for you and there's no 100% successful method."

Alan Roger Currie: I generally agree with that. If lying to women and misleading women is what is conducive to you achieving your objective(s), then go for it.

PZN said, "What some of you equate to games, deception and manipulation, I equate to persuasion, convincing and playing the game."

Alan Roger Currie: Again, manipulation and engaging in "head games" is not synonymous with the art of persuasion. Those are two totally different concepts.

PZN said, "You need to be a chameleon."

Alan Roger Currie: Disagree. Totally.

PZN said, "Direct approaches work. But for me, they've never been the best for very hot women. I like to go in indirect, gain her trust, tease her and always keep her guessing. After a while, you simply get a natural instinct for this stuff. You read the women and you know what would appeal to her."

Alan Roger Currie: Speak for yourself. The direct approach has always given me favorable responses with hot women. I don't concentrate on what will 'appeal' to women. I don't concern myself with what women are thinking. I concern myself with what I want, why do I really want to share a woman's company, and expressing my desires, interests and intentions to women in the most highly self-assured, unapologetic, upfront and straightforwardly honest manner as possible.

PZN said, "Many people also think indirect means having no balls. Bullshit. I understand that direct approaches could cut through a lot of bullshit with words but often you don't even need words because actions speak louder than them. My attitude is generally: Indirect with WORDS, very direct with ACTIONS."

Alan Roger Currie: Be real with yourself. Why do you ever need to be "indirect with your words??" Ultimately, it is because you're either a) afraid of being rejected, b) afraid of being harshly criticized and/or insulted, or c) both "a" and "b."

Indirect approaches are FEAR-based.

Direct approaches are CONFIDENCE-based.

Can you potentially get laid being indirect? Sure. I've never told a man that he couldn't.

But in my experience, men adopt the direct approach because being indirect left them feeling angry, frustrated, bitter, unsatisfied, and/or regretful. You will find there are far more single men who move from indirect approaches to direct approaches than vice versa.

My thoughts.

Christophe's picture
Sun, 12/19/2010 - 21:19

Both methods have their

Both methods have their pitfalls.

INDIRECT: Lying about your intentions and who you are

DIRECT: Believing it is just about running to a girl and telling her you want to fuck her

Because of that there will be failures im both camps and frustrated people in both camps.

Choosing one method rather than the other isn't necessarly fear based but a question of style and deciding which method will be the most efficient considering the unique situation.

My opinion.