Want Your Wife's Passwords ?

A Review Of Papa and Tyler's Boot Camp

This past weekend, I was in LA on a Boot Camp with Tyler Durden and Papa.

Now, I've seen way too many reviews of seminars and products that go something like “This seminar rocked ! It was awesome. Within an hour of leaving the seminar I'd gotten the phone numbers of two Playboy Playmates and had f*cked the Hustler Honey of the Month, and it was all due to these guys.”

Well, I'm not going to say that (well, not in so many words). I'm not going to say that, because I believe that most of those kinds of reviews are written to butter up to the guy running the seminar. I'm not a writer, so maybe I won't be able to convey what I want to convey, but what I got from this boot camp was that learning this from people for whom it is easy made me realize that it could be easy for me as well.

I arrived in LA on Friday night, and had found somewhere to eat when my cell phone rang. It was Papa, and he invited to join him (he and a few friends were going to a night club). I was impressed with how personable he was. It just felt this that was a great guy who cared about seeing that I had a great time.

So, I drove over to Todai's Japanese restaurant at the Beverly Center. All I knew about Papa was that he was Asian (I'd seen him at David DeAngelo's DYD seminar in November, and had completely forgotten what he looked like).

Todai's was full of Asians, so spotting him wasn't easy, but a call to his cell phone found out that at that moment he was in the bathroom. He was there with three other guys, Andrew, Randy and Eric (Eric is a reporter for Rolling Stone magazine, and is writing an article on them; he also wrote the Rolling Stone Article on Ross Jeffries a few years ago).

We picked up one of Papa's friends and then we went off to a night club on Hollywood Boulevard. Now, the last time I went into a night club was about 1991, so it was a bit of a new environment. After a few minutes I remembered why: the noise is just too loud and the idea of walking up to a woman and talking to her just terrified me.

Nick opened up a set and left me to talk to her (it turned out she was the owner). I spent the next hour and a half walking around like a fish out of water, just too damn scared to speak to any of the stunning women who were there, and simply not knowing how to without the fear of being shot down and made to look like a complete dick.

By accident, I got talking to the girl collecting names for the guest list, but didn't know where to take it. You can use this as a baseline of where I was before the seminar; sort of one and a half openers in two hours (and one of those was accidental).
There were three students on this boot camp: Matt and Mike were room mates from Virginia Beach, and they recognized me from the Chicago DYD seminar that we had all attended. Matt had been to the DC Real Social Dynamics seminar, and Mike had not). Mike and Matt flew in on the Saturday afternoon.

Saturday evening we picked up Tyler at the airport around 5 pm. At about 8 pm the seminar started with Tyler. They covered some of the social dynamics briefly, and gave us some openers to use. The most common one we used was, “Hey guys ! I need an opinion. Who lies more, men or women ?”

Armed with this and a few other conversational techniques, we set off for a club (again on Hollywood Boulevard). There may have been five or six instructors and three students (plus Eric, the reporter) so there was plenty of support from guys who knew what they were talking about.

Papa teamed up with me, and within a minute of arriving he spotted a “lone wolf” standing in an open space near the bar. So he told me to go in. With the belief that I was just going to ask her opinion, I walked up to her (I don't like grading the looks of women, but this hot blonde was about a 9).

I asked her the question and she answered as if it was just a normal conversation between two people who had known each other for years. F*ck ! It was that easy !

In the next 90 minutes, I opened up another 8 sets; 9 in all in 90 minutes, and it was easy. Compare that to the night before where I had accidentally opened one in 2 hours. I'd have opened more but my voice gave out.

Ok, so a couple of the sets were not so easy. I got one “Who cares ?” and another “Is this opinion night ? We've been asked this three times already !” (By the third night, I was handling these objections with ease.)

With such a supportive environment from the instructors, it was funny when I got shot down. By the end of the night I was euphoric.

Sunday afternoon we went down to Melrose Avenue to look for clothes to peacock with. I got this really cool Versailles coat (look it up on Google if you don't know what one is) and when we got back to the Project Hollywood Mansion all the other guys wanted to try it on (so when were you last in an environment where other guys wanted to try on your clothes to see how they looked ?)

That evening, Tyler explained some of the social dynamics, and also gave us his 15 step “pickup” process and we began putting together scripts we could actually use on women to get them through various states.

Later that night it was out to another club. This one was insanely loud, but I still did 4 openers, and this time got much further, engaging in one 30 minute conversation. I could have done more than 4 if it hadn't been so loud and so crowded.

Monday (day three) Tyler continued with social dynamics, getting us to memorize the 15 step script and generally refining the process.

That night, I teamed up with Papa and Marco (from the New York Lair). We found every ice b*tch queen from Hell that night. In every opening I was shot down badly but it was funny. In one such set Papa was straining so hard not to laugh that he had to get up and leave. I'll let Papa tell some of these stories at this coming weekend's seminar.

When we got back to the Project Hollywood Mansion we learned (from the other students) that Playboy and Tyler got BJs from girls in the backyard at the end of night, and that Tyler had picked up a Playboy Playmate and got her to give him her number and say she wanted to take him to Magic Mountain.

OK, so let's sum up the boot camp. In 24 hours, I go from a guy who has never opened a set to a guy who, from the very first one I was coached into opening (by Papa), has almost completely lost any fear that I used to have. I've been back less than 18 hours and I've opened up about 8 sets so far (it's only 6 PM).

If you were to add up the cost of all the courses I have attended and tapes I have bought—tapes and videos that supposedly would give me confidence with women—then it would be in excess of $10,000 (you've probably spent more than you realize, as well). I used to sit and wait for the next “fix it” tape to come out that would once and for all give me the nerve to go up to women and talk to them, but it never came.

So what were the negatives ? Well, some printed notes would have been nice, though having said that, I probably wouldn't have read them anyway. The other thing would be that, when practicing the routines in the “classroom,” we were practicing it on male instructors, and it just doesn't work. Sorry, Papa, but you're just too manly to be seen as an HB10 !

Tuesday morning, Matt, Mike, Eric and I went out for coffee. While coming back from the bathroom, I saw a 9 and a 10 sitting at the table. I just went over to their table and asked who they thought lied more. There was nothing to it. I only chatted for a few minutes because the other guys were waiting for me. I couldn't have walked up to them, prior to this boot camp. I'd done it on my own, confident about what I was doing and they were exactly the kind of women that interest me. That's exactly what I was hoping for from this weekend.

After this weekend, I know that I can do it because I know how to do it, and it's both exciting and fun. Probably some of you reading this are in the same position I was in last week.

You're probably going to be spending this Friday and Saturday night indoors wishing that you were with a woman, and the same will be true of the following weekend and the weekend after that.

You're probably making excuses about not being able to afford this course, but you haven't realized how much you have spent so far on courses, books, tapes and that collection of porn while trying to get what you want.

You probably believe that one day you'll overcome your fear, but you've been thinking this for longer than you would like to realize and that day still isn't here; and there's no sign of it being any day soon.

Just when are you going to do something about it ?

I wish I'd taken this boot camp years ago, but at least I have taken it. Most of you won't. Many guys will never get what you want, because they'll never do anything about it.

I'm not affiliated with Papa and Tyler. I'm just grateful for what they have done for me. My goal now is to get to the point where I realize that I'm good enough to go out and teach other guys how to communicate with women.

Now I have a new hobby.

The weekend of February 14th through 16th I spent three days with Papa & Tyler at the Hollywood Project Mansion.

This past weekend (February 21st & 22nd) I attended Papa & Tyler's Real Social Dynamics seminar in San Francisco. There was an option to go out into the field on the Friday, Saturday & Sunday nights, but I was unable to join them as I had other commitments on the Friday and Sunday nights.

OK, so the first day started at noon and ended early at 7:30. Sunday was longer; it still started at noon but finished around 11:30 PM (they then went out sarging for the evening).

While on the seminar, I was repeatedly asked how the boot camp and the seminar compared. The answer I gave was that the boot camp was more intense, being 80% field work. The 20% classroom work was to give you some techniques to use in the field. For the field work, there were sometimes nearly three times as many instructors as students.

OK, so let's get back to the seminar. This was videotaped, so it may one day appear as either a CD or DVD set (or both) and I'll certainly be buying it.

The first day was Tyler talking about the following:

Guys can't talk with other guys for dating advice
What is a natural?
The club approach
The most important things about the inner game
Charismatic people are congruent
Social subtle behavior
What is cool?
Approaching sets: when a girl is walking; when a girl is sitting; if a girl does something uncool
When the noise is too loud
Boldness versus confidence
Be in autopilot mode versus analytical mode
Be talkative
Do the least amount necessary to get to the next point
False time constraints
Projecting your voice
Reversals
Opinions
Stack material
The process
Cold reads
Busting girls on their mannerisms
Girl code
Challenging girls
Misinterpretation
Push-pull
Pimp talk
Funny kino tricks
Routine/story construction
Style's 'comfort'
Differences between male and female sex drive
Validation

That was seven and a half hours of material.

Day two was eleven and a half hours, so even more was covered. Rather than list it here, you'd need to attend one of Papa and Tyler's seminars.

Briefly, the second day continued in the same way, but this time Papa also spoke, and there were several guest speakers. It was intense, and if I was to criticize it, then it would be that eleven and a half hours was too much for the second day (an odd criticism, I think you'll agree).

One last thing. Eric Hedegaard from Rolling Stone magazine has been following Papa and Tyler around for the last few weeks (he was at one of their previous seminars, at the boot camp, and also at this seminar). Eric wrote the article on Ross Jeffries, in Rolling Stone Magazine back in 1998, and in about 6-8 weeks, Rolling Stone Magazine should be publishing a story on Papa and Tyler.

The night I broke up with #3. (The importance of maintaining your state when dumping her.)

This past Friday night I broke my relationship with # 3. It was an interesting night that ended with her giving me a BJ after I dumped her. Here it is.

# 3 is a Greek woman, about 29 (I think) and obese (over 300+). Those of you that attend the Montreal Lair will recall my stories of her girth. Seeing her has been a great learning experience for me, as I am getting an idea as to what it must have been like for the women I dated when I was 312 lbs. (that was 65 pounds ago, I am happy to say).

# 3 doesn't have a car or a license to drive, and lives with her parents. Driving to her place to pick her up, then back to mine for sex, then to take her home again, and then back home takes a total of 2 hours (30 minutes per trip). That is the beautiful thing about having a harem...you really get a feel for what is and isn't worth your real time. The distance thing was getting to me.

Then the real reason I called it quits. She has a lousy attitude. I thought that only really pretty girls have attitude, and that ugly ones were nice. Wrong. Pretty girls have bitch shields from getting hit on too much. Ugly girls have attitudes because they don't get hit on as much as pretty girls. # 3 is the second most ugly girl I ever dated. (And I have dated some dogs...)

Well, Friday night she was going to get a lift into my area, and I would pick her up at a parking lot. The time was set for 9-9:30. After delays, I only finally picked her up at 10:30, and by the time we got back to my place, it was 10:45. I was fuming. Not only did she keep me waiting, but she was rude with me on the phone. I know that it wasn't really her fault, but I also knew that she lacked any ambition to get a driver's license (we talked about it), and that getting together with her was just becoming too much effort for what it was worth.

So we get upstairs to my apartment. I make her a drink, and pour one myself. And we talk. I tell her that I think we should just be friends. and then it started ...

She starts to cry ... “You didn't even give it a chance” ... “You are sick, you and that lifestyle of yours” ... “You really hurt me, I hope you're happy” ... “You are probably laughing at me” ... “It's because I am fat, isn't it?” ... “Well I was going to break up with you at Christmas anyway” ... “Why can't you change?” ... she went on and on.

During this whole time, I totally maintained my state. In the back of my mind, I kept saying, “She is a woman, she probably has other guys lined up, she is probably cheating on me anyway, this is just drama, she needs her drama cookie, etc ...)” It was tough. For the first time, I was on the other end of this experience, and damn it, it was surreal. I could feel myself, wanting to feel for her, but I didn't go AFC. I maintained my state, and my position.

Then the most amazing thing happened. Get this guys.

She immediately stops crying when she sees that she isn't getting a response from me, and says, “Ok, I'm over you now,” and then went on to say that she wanted to hug me, but was afraid of what might happen.

We continued talking. It turns out that she already had another date with a guy on Sunday, and that she wasn't interested in having me as a friend. “I already have enough friends,” she said, “so if you call me, you better be ready to be a man of action. I am not interested in talking.”

Basically, she isn't interested in having me as a friend, she just wants to f*ck me regularly.

So she said she wanted to hug me, etc...and wanted to blow me.

I played it cautious. What if she was just trying to gain my confidence enough to hurt me, bite my balls or something. When I questioned her about all her tears, she said, “Oh really, Kermit ! I am a girl. That's what girls do ! It doesn't mean anything.”

So she took her top off and began to blow me. She then became increasingly insulting (“You know, I have seen bigger c*cks ...” and began to hurt me (sucking my testicles too hard). Ouch.

Still in awe of what was going on, I was too much in state to let the insults get to me. I played cocky-funny back to her (“Yes, I am sure that you have seen many many c*cks ! If anyone would be an expert ...”) It was sooo funny. Comments like that would have crushed me just a year or two ago. Now, all I was worried about was whether or not she would bite down.

Then I took her home. A girl who was getting too clingy and too attached to me just became a f*ck buddy, mine for the taking.

How (And Why) Hollywood Ate Your Brain

I just read a newsletter from a fairly popular dating advice site that left me stunned with the utter ignorance in their response to a guy who wrote in for help. It was as if they were trying to sabotage this poor guy's chances.

His letter went something like this:

“Hi, I have this great woman friend that I want to have as more than a friend. How do I get her romantically interested ?”

And their stunningly incompetent response was:

“Try confessing to her how you feel. Sometimes that's all you need to do.”

And his response was:

“Hey ! It worked ! I told her how I felt about her, and now she's totally hot for me ! Thanks !”

WTF?

(As in, What the fock ??)

Now, I know you guys have been with me for a while, and understand the complete fallacy of this solution. Not only do I think this particular situation sounds totally prefabricated and ridiculous, it stretches the limits of credibility beyond belief.

How many of you guys have ever “confessed” your love and feelings for a woman and had her respond positively to you ? How many women have you told of your devoted love and discovered that all she was waiting for was for you to confess to her before she just jumped into your arms like Meg Ryan in some lame RomCom (Romantic Comedy) ?

Anyone ? Anyone ?

Bueller ? Bueller ?

C'mon, raise your hand.

No one ?

If anyone has ever had this work for them, I want you to write me an email right now and tell me about it, because it's never worked for me, or for any man I've ever met.

Period.

(Insert shaking head here ...)

This “advice” came from people who should know much better than to give this kind of dangerous information to guys.

You know what it tells me ?

It tells me that they're not really out there getting laid, and they're part of a conspiracy to rob all other guys of their chances of getting laid.

Honesty is not the best policy when it comes to attracting women. (It comes into play later, when and if you decide to have a relationship with her, but not now.) Show some integrity and honor, but don't reveal that you once stuck your pecker in the vacuum cleaner until much later. (If ever, Hoover-boy.)

There are still a lot of guys out there, though, who think that telling a woman how you feel is the way into her heart.

Let me give you another example of the crappy programming they are trying to fill you up with out there ...

I just watched “Punch Drunk Love” with Adam Sandler the other night. Now, I have to say, it was a pretty weird twist on the whole RomCom thing, and actually funny in many parts. Unique and interesting. I like a movie that dares to be different. Pretty good cinematography, too.

However, the plot was complete and utter horsesh*t. The really stinky kind, mixed with hay and peanuts and corn.

(Sorry, that was gross, but you get my point ...)

Let me illustrate the dangerous beliefs perpetuated by this movie:

Harmful Myth 1: Women will ask you on dates and chase you with completely no effort on your part.

Reality Women that just chase after you from the start with no effort from you are usually Psycho. Steer clear! Beautiful women never need to chase guys, because they have a herd of dorks after them all the time.

Do you really want a needy woman who is so desperate as to chase after guys ? That achy feeling in your crotch might be telling you “yes,” but you don't. While some of you might think this sounds pretty cool, trust me, it's a trip right down weirdo lane. I've had girls do this to me, and it never works. One of them had some incredible self-esteem issues involving a suicide attempt. Very scary stuff, man.

We do not live in a world where women pursue men, as much as you'd like that to happen.

Harmful Myth 2: If you confess all the bad stuff about yourself, she'll accept you and take you into her heart because you've proven your courage and love.

Reality: Women (and men) are repelled by this level of honesty from a person without a solid relationship foundation built in advance. She is much more willing to accept your flaws and shortcomings if you have a basis of trust and connection established first. In this movie, Adam Sandler tells Emily Watson that he:

- Cries a lot

- Destroyed a bathroom where they were eating, thus getting them kicked out

- Dropped everything he was doing and flew to Hawaii to be with her and took nothing with him but the weird blue suit he was wearing. (Careful here ! Some of you guys are thinking, “Hey, that's romantic ...” It's not. It's creepy. Think about the mindset of a person who would do this on a whim.)

- Called a phone sex line

Let me reassure you guys out there of this:

Telling a woman this is suicide for seduction.

I'm sure a whole bunch of women were all heart-warmed by seeing Adam confess this stuff in the context of the movie, but in the real world, it would scare her off faster than finding a used band-aid in her Lean Cuisine low-carb pizza.

So, the question I've been beating about in my head is this:

Why do these movies keep getting made ?

Why do they keep perpetuating this nonsense ?

And why do women continue to buy into it. ..?

My revelation is this:

The reason this crap works in movies is that the male characters are already desired by the women, by their fame and sex appeal.

You see, the women who go see these movies already have an attraction for these guys based on their previous roles and characters, as well as their perceived fame, power, and money.

Sure, you could argue that Adam Sandler isn't much in the looks department, but he's still a hot property because of his comedy. Chicks dig comedians and comics because humor is sexy. Women only dream of these “romantic” gestures with men whom they already want. When you're starting out, you're still establishing her want. It's not there yet.

Romantic gestures don't mean dick when she doesn't already want what you've got. Then they have impact. Before that, it seems weird because:

1) It seems like you're trying to buy her love from her. (This is really close to something called prostitution, by the way. Do you think she wants to feel like a hooker ?)

2) A woman wants to be seen and known for who she is. When a guy gives her things, and makes these romantic overtures, and it's obvious he's doing this without really knowing her, she is subconsciously (and consciously) creeped out. Because it means she's not unique to you. You'd do this for any woman you wanted to sleep with, obviously.

Also, women love to see couples get together, even if it's only in the context of a movie. They'll ignore reality because they want to believe in the “happily ever after” more than anything. They are more likely to believe in the promise of love than the reality of what works. It's a fantasy.

So why do other guys who should know better perpetuate this kind of nonsense ?

I have thought about this for quite some time, and I'll confess that I was at a loss. It just doesn't make sense that guys would give this kind of lame advice, knowing it doesn't work.

Then I had another revelation:

Most guys really don't know much about the reality of women or how to attract and seduce them. But they will happily pass along their limited understanding of the information. Guys love to be know-it-alls. We're professional trash-talkers, and we protect our fragile egos by saying anything as long as we can pull it off and seem knowledgeable in the process.

Alternately, some guys just shake their heads, roll their eyes, and say:

“Women ! Who understands them ...” And write them off as another species entirely.

Now, 95% of the guys out there have already been programmed by well-meaning (but horribly misleading) mothers, the media (which has made men “bad” and “dangerous” for decades now), and misled by never having a good male role model to learn the Truth from.

So what information do most guys pass on ?

The un-truths that they learned and most guys just accept as true. Even though in just about every guys' experience this crap never works, it sounds good because everyone else is saying it. And, for gosh sakes, we so desperately want it to be true, too. Because it's logical, and it makes sense. So we ignore the Truth and believe this bunk to make ourselves feel better.

It's always easier to believe in a lie that sounds like the truth than challenge your beliefs.

Our world can still spin in its logical and rational orbit because what we were taught seems true.

But it's not.

Real men who are out there really meeting and dating women know that you don't handle “romantic” situations this way.

It's my honest hope that this information will prevent you from sleeping well tonight. I want you to toss and turn, unable to find a cool spot on your pillow to rest your cheek. I want you knowing that the world is spinning nicely and happily in its orbit, but that you're still believing in a childhood myth.

You were taught that there was a Santa Claus and a Tooth Fairy, and you eventually got past those.

You were taught that if you are “nice” to women, tell them how you feel, and buy them romantic candlelit dinners, they'll fall in love with you. And most guys still haven't gotten past this illusion, only because they have no other Truth to latch on to.

Break free of this belief and recognize that logic is not the answer.

You need to appeal to her subconscious sexual attraction mechanism.

(Responding to Tyler Durden: Or I'll just use something ordinary, but I'll map out a scenario (using future adventures projection of us doing awesome stuff), and just go with that. They'll immediately offer up their number. Then I'll say, “OK cool,” and just change the subject. Just like how a girl does to guys. What's next is funny to watch. She'll start trying to naturally “slip in” that I should take her number. I'll keep saying, “Yeah cool, I'll get it later.” I keep doing this, until she's asked me to exchange numbers around 5-15 times over the next hour.)

Halbmike: This is an awesome tactic. One of the key things at play here is that you're building momentum. Before your takeaway. It is like you just nudged a ball to start rolling down a hill. Any time you get momentum you can play this way.

My situation was that since my last breakup with a girl, I turned total AFC and have been in recovery for about a whole year. During this time, I have been out with very attractive girls but never even kissed them. Perhaps there was attraction, but I just didn't have the guts to make a move. This went into a vicious cycle, affecting my confidence, and then I became totally depressed about it, trying to qualify everything, reading a lot of stuff, etc ...

Anyway, recently I think I found the solution ... it's to pair up with a PUA and go in field instead of sitting on my ass reading & thinking how great it would be to do x or y ! Just the other day, seems like all this frustration and lack of confidence went away. I managed to tongue down a European HB tourist I met in a bar.

I was very happy with that, because for awhile I didn't think I could ever get there again ... it's like this whole new door opening, and then suddenly I realize of all the opportunities when I could have done the same in the past year and half ... all the same IOIs I got from her that were similar to ones I got from other women, whom I just didn't have the right game for ...

Strangely enough, sometimes I just wonder how much of it is luck, and how much was skill. I do know that had I not made certain moves, then it would not have happened. On my scale of 1-10, she would be an 8, but as a tourist, I don't know ... maybe she was easier and up for it. I wonder how much of the same success I can get with a 10 who is a local ...

But I also want to know how consistently this would work. Guess I won't find out unless I go out and keep trying ! Haha.

Anyway if you're curious about what I did, I kept the whole thing really simple. I'd love to hear feedback on this, maybe things I should do / not do in the future. I actually didn't really try to “pick her up” till end game. I was out to practice opening. The whole pull was done in under 20 minutes (probably could have been faster, but for about 10 minutes I was trying to frame myself out of it ... without my wing's encouragement I wouldn't have made it, so I owe a lot to him !!)

I was opening a few sets, and this happened to be quite random even though I noticed her earlier (short skirt, heels ... love that stuff). I didn't do much C&F, even though I did play with answers with her and her friend who was an UG ! (“Where are you from ?” “South Africa” “But you're Chinese !” “My granddad was Italian that's why I f*ck like a stallion ...”)

Actually, she isolated me (“Let's go to the dance floor”), but on the floor an AMOG came, and she wasn't working it. I almost chickened out here. But I am glad of what I did. Showed her a magic trick. DDB look, reisolated her (to sit down) and she begged me to teach her. I said “You gotta teach me something back in return, so that it's fair. What are you good at ?” She said “Erm ... xxx and yyy ...” so I replied, “That doesn't interest me. Are you good at kissing ?”

The rest is history. :D

Wow, it's been a journey. The thing is once you get there, it's like this whole issue doesn't matter anymore. To be honest, for me it's all about the confidence more than shagging a lot of girls. While I would like to do that, of course, it's not something that I make as a “lifestyle.” If it comes along and I want it, then I'll get it. Otherwise I just wanna have a good time. It doesn't even matter if I go out and I don't close. Because once you get there, life becomes fun, and I can't believe that one pull was all it took. I've had a few drinks tonight and one hell of a good time (went to a ball !) and I didn't tongue down anyone (even though I know I probably could have). The amazing thing is the transformation that happens to you with just one close.

I have become really confident. I don't really give a sh*t about what other people think of me anymore. No more going out feeling depressed or down on yourself. Those two things alone make a killer combination. Just tonight I said things to some of the hottest girls in the room I never would do, and it's amazing how some of them seem to try to qualify and supplicate. For example:

One HB, on my scale, she'd be an 8.5 ... I normally totally supplicate and be nice to her. Tonight I was standing there, when a professor of mine was saying he heard I was a ladies' man. In front of the girl. I was like, “Nom no, don't say that. I'm just a nice guy.” You should have seen the expression on the girl's face.

Anyway then when the tutor said things like “Are you and Vince together ?” she said “Me and Vince ? No way !” and I said to him “You know, I don't really understand women, it's funny how the more attracted to you they are, the more they try to act like they aren't ... hahahahahah” And it came naturally.

Then, after awhile, I was trying to do an “analysis” game on her (just for fun) and a friend came over. I just left her standing for a bit when she goes, “Well you are going to finish this or I'm gonna go,” so I said, “I'm talking to my friend here. Get lost then!” This guy I was with was a natural, and his eyes just went wide. The girl actually walked away, but it was hilarious. I couldn't give a sh*t what she thought. I didn't even try to talk to her again, but I know she would come back for more ...

Anyway I think the best advice I can give anyone is to get out of their comfort zone. This, however, was advice given to me from a few other people, as it was my biggest barrier.

Hey what do you think of this ? One SHB I was talking to tonight (Wow, amazing blonde, tall, beautiful. Definitely model TV presenter quality). She worked as a barmaid in one of the posh clubs I frequent. I walked over and acted like I forgot her as a joke. She took it quite seriously and went on saying “Erm, I work at the Opal Lounge, ya know ? I met you xxx and yyy times ...” and I said “Oh, ok ...”

She and I were a bit tipsy, but she kept going on about how her job is like a different life. I gained rapport by saying, “Between me and you ... that club, actually is very superficial in my opinion.” She totally agreed. My insight is that she's very insecure about her work and thinks people “look down” on her for working there. Totally the opposite. Anyway I said to her, “Well I only met you once !” and she said, “Actually no, three times.” At the time I didn't think much of it, but does this mean she was keeping count ? Wow !

Anyway I did a bit of rapport and was gonna go into one of my other magic tricks when I got a c*ck block from a friend of mine ! I was very surprised by this person. She is my partner in class, who recently broke up with her BF 2 weeks ago. I missed a few teaching sessions with her this week, and I think she was a bit pissed off with me about that, but I did apologize earlier and she was ok with it.

She came over, had her arms crossed, and said “Is Vince showing you one of his magic tricks ?” Anyway, in short, there was a lot of tension there between the two of them. SHB kept saying in a very sarcastic voice, “I know Vince ... in fact, probably longer that have,” to the other girl. The other girl said “Actually, I know Vince from the start of the year.” SHB then says “Actually, like ... 3 months have I known him ?!” I felt like I wasn't even there !

Anyway so then I tried to break the tension by saying, “Ladies ... you don't have to really fight over me.” Hahahaha. I don't know how effective this was ... by this time, I made SHBs ring disappear, and the other girl said “Give it back to my flat mate.” Ok, so then I figured their relationship out. I waited till my friend left. I gave SHB's ring back. SHB then said “Cool,” and walked off. I was very surprised she just “walked off.” Was she playing “hard to get ?”

WTF happened there ? I am not sure if the “friend” was trying to c*ck block, or if she was “jealous” that I was talking to her beautiful flatmate ... I then went over and confronted her and said, “What's up ?” and she said she's still “Pissed off with me for leaving her alone at the teaching sessions.” I said to her that I have told her I'm sorry, that I've been up making the presentation for this talk. She said that she had to answer all my questions. I said to her surely that's good for her though ? Anyway she said she's still pissed off with me. So I just shrugged my shoulders and walked away.

Later on I danced with SHB for a bit, who had this really shy and embarrassed look on her face as I spun her around. But after a while, she walked off again. Oh well. The best thing is I don't really give a sh*t.

What's happening here ? Are all these girls suddenly all over me ? Hahahahaha this is just a bit mental ...

Here is a snippet from a personal note I sent to a married kid who's running around doing a bunch of my old sh*t.

“... one more suggestion. Go download Home Keylogger on your PC. It's an invisible keystroke recorder that will give you a little peace of mind at home. Want your wife's passwords ? You got 'em. Want to see if she's tracing your tracks ? You got it. It's simple to use and runs in the background. This could save you a lot of grief. BTW, it's a free download. One more tip, download it in your office or at a friend's and then install it at home. Distrust is an inherent trait with married women, regardless of what she says.”

Clifford, I know that sounds a little jaded, but anybody that is in a primary relationship with someone that has access to their computer is a fool if he's not watching his back with a simple tool like this. Now here's the flipside of this ... if your woman is not going behind you and tracing your tracks and you determine that she is innocent, it may make you feel entirely different about the relationship ... thereby establishing a bond of real trust in your mind, and between the two of you.

Ooooh, that sounded so anti-SS.

I was talking to another guy about this, and am encouraging him to take it. I was asked if I feel like the workshop has helped my game the last time I took it, and if so, why I would want to take it again. If not, would I still want to take it again ?

I'd love to take it again. Why ? Because it is a hell of an experience. I'd use skydiving as an analogy I guess (I haven't done it). You get together with a group of guys to learn about a very discrete skill set. This in itself lends a specialness to the event ... you know that what you're about to do (go out and get pushed into sets, i.e. jump out of an airplane) is probably going to scare the sh*t out of some of you. But, it is thrilling ... and safe ... when you have someone who is very, very competent behind you, or better yet ... actually giving you instructions in set (this is too much, being told to not laugh at your own jokes, stop leaning in ... within earshot of the girls ... hilarious). Your confidence about approaching for the duration of the workshop becomes a non-issue.

The theoretical element (about 5 hours per day) is worth the price of admission alone. The stuff he talks about is mind-boggling. It is also overwhelming. My caveat with the workshop, now that I think back to it, was that the psychology taught, although absolutely riveting, was completely beyond what most in the group would ever get to skill-wise.

To answer the question concerning whether it helped my game: I'd have to say, no. But, this is largely my own fault, because you actually have to practice what they are teaching. A good analogy would be weight training, Arnold can show you how to bench, squat, and curl, then you have to hit the gym regularly and do it. And to be absolutely realistic, some of us just don't have the genetics to be Arnold. In other words, Tyler and Mystery are special guys. We're not going to be able to do what they do. However, the potential to take some of what they do is there all the same.

A small thing I'm thinking, also, is that the “game” he teaches ... not the psychology, but his particular game ... is probably more effective for younger guys. I'm not so sure it is going to work as well for me, and I've read on mASF a couple of stories from older dudes who went back to their old style after failing with Tyler's.

But, you have to take into consideration how much time they did or did not put into implementing Tyler's method. I will say that the David Bowie indirect opener, which I thought was laughable, opened every time I tried it. Also, you and I are not Tyler. His game is dependent on his superb tonality, body language and delivery. This is the stuff that needs to be practiced regularly. Many of the guys in the workshop are there because they are having real trouble with women (umm ... like myself). There are guys there who have never done a cold approach. IMO, he should drop the hours of theory and get guys physically practicing openers with the correct body language and tonality, in class, and on day one.

Also, another area where I think the workshop needs work (and this is true Mystery's also) ... is showing what attraction and rapport look like. Again, I think he should dump the hours and hours of fascinating theory (and it really is wonderful stuff) and get back to basics and show guys, in the classroom, not in field (where you can hardly hear anything, and don't really have an opportunity to analyze properly) how attraction and rapport look and sound.

Obviously a video of a classic sarge would be ideal (and illegal, unless they got consent forms signed). But, he could point out where he's losing her, where her buying temp is going up, how he's pushing the sarge forward, etc.

Another good thing would have been to be shown what not to do. Remember, there are guys in the class who are really having troubles hooking up with girls, like myself. There is something they are just not getting. If I were to have done 10 minutes of role-playing in class, it would have become pretty evident what the problem was. Then I would have gotten specific instructions on what I need to do next. It would be pretty awkward for an instructor to physically show me, in the middle of a club, what I need to do instead ... and then guide me through the motions myself, with loud music pumping and people screaming everywhere.

I was dying for examples. I would have loved for him and Papa to do some role playing. Or role play with students in the class. It would have become all too obvious that most guys can't open properly, and that they can't go into a routine off of the opener properly. From what I saw, most guys get stuck at attraction, that's basically the beginning of a sarge. And, you know, that's normal; if a guy is having real problems with women, it's obviously because he can't attract properly. He'll do stupid stuff, or he won't deliver properly with confidence and good body language, or poor tonality, or he'll dress inappropriately for the venue. More focus should be put here, and practiced on, in class, imo. Less theory, more drills.

I was also asked if I really feel like these workshops were a worthwhile investment of time and money ? I'll say ... it depends. If you really go into their workshop expecting your game to shoot through the roof, I think you'll be disappointed.

Why ? Because the reality is that this is hard work that has to be practiced, and most guys won't do that. Are you willing to put in 6 hours a week to practice his style, to work on your body language in a mirror, to work on your tonality, and, even harder, to drop what you are so accustomed to and are comfortable with when it works for you ? I doubt it. If nothing is working for you, well then it's up to you to put in the time to implement what they teach.

I guess I wish I came out of the workshop with a real, solid, workable 20 minutes of “game.” Basically, I'm Joe Lunchbox, you know, with a full-time job, and I'm older, and I'm having real problems attracting women into my life. If I had a solid 20 minutes worked on, I'd be excited to get out there and work my little game. As it stands, I can open with an indirect opener anywhere, and then things just kind of go nowhere. You get fed up after awhile just opening and then having it go nowhere.

Do you understand what I'm saying here ? Yes, they will tell you conceptually what needs to be done, and you might get some valuable in-field commentary (and you may not ... I heard some guys just didn't get the attention they wanted, either. Hey, the reality is that some nights the clubs are just not happening for the instructors). But, I would strongly suggest they rethink the in-class format. Instead of listening to and being blown away by TD, I'd rather have him or another instructor role play with me and identify and correct my personal mistakes so I can get up and running for real.

Since the workshop, which was a while ago I must admit, I've gotten fed up of the “go nowhere” sarges, and flakes on phone numbers that I've gotten. You have to decide whether or not you have the patience and energy to go to a venue 4 times a week, to practice what they teach, because that is what it is going to take to pickup a girl from a cold approach. TD said it himself: picking up from a cold approach is hard. I couldn't agree more.

TD is an excellent teacher, he gives of himself 110%. I really appreciated his dedication to what he was teaching. Also, I really appreciate what he has done for this community. The amount he has given via mASF is astonishing. Also, I honestly believe the RSD workshop is the best product out there (I haven't had the opportunity to try Badboy's workshop, although I am very curious, because from the reports I've read, he basically addresses the issues I have spoken about in this post).

Again, major props to TD for coming into this community and blowing it up the way he has. He has implemented so many of the disparate “styles” of sarging out there and basically organized them into an understandable, cohesive whole, in less than 2 years ! This is astonishing. I thank him majorly for that.

Now, I would love to see TD and co. come up with a more meat-and-potatoes style workshop, where more energy is spent on individual students and their sticking points, and organizing a workable little game plan for each guy. Yes, some of us are that clueless ...

Okay, so here's why I still recommend the workshop, despite what I've complained about above: 1) it is a lot of fun; 2) it really is a unique experience...like, a once in a lifetime kind of experience; 3) you'll see him do things socially that will make your jaw drop ... as in, you just didn't think they were possible, which is a lesson in itself; 4) the theory is fascinating and he is an excellent teacher; 5) you'll get pushed into sets, which will surprise you, maybe scare you, maybe not ... but, if he or Papa join you, you'll get valuable in-set commentary on your body language and mannerisms, etc. 5a) another caveat: in-field is total madness, so you have to grab these guys and say... “I really want you to go into set with me and analyze what I'm doing.” So, overall, yes for these reasons, I'm glad I went. No regrets at all.

But no, my game did not go up because of the workshop. The potential is there for you if you are willing to put in the hard work. Now, if I were to do this again, and were really, really serious about working on my game ... no question, I'd have to do a one on one. I need a lot of work, like many of the others in the class. In field, it was so chaotic. This way, you get the individualized attention you really need to progress. There just isn't enough opportunity for in-depth, individualized attention. Still, I recommend it for the experience alone ... go skydiving ! ... it's a blast, you'll never forget it, and you'll learn a few things along the way. Hope this helped.