Can Mr. Nice Enter The Body ...?

(Commenting on My Comment: I understand that there is a lot of anger and resentment among guys who are frustrated that they haven't been able to be successful with women (or who have had bad experiences) ... I think that to pretend that these feelings aren't there is misleading, but it is more important and productive to get past that and change unhealthy attitudes to more positive ones. Comments ?)

Personally, I think the problem is that such mind-sets cause guys to miss out on opportunities and see as defeats or set-backs what are really just easily anticipated and simple tests.

Walking around angry and frustrated is a bad place to start, because it is the mental equivalent of tensing all your muscles in a fight. Slows you down and actually makes you more vulnerable, not less.

I'm working on a very hot HB who needs a bit more challenging before she comes around. While I would have loved to ram her in that perfect, pert ass of hers the first day I talked to her, I'm relaxed, as I keep challenging her until I hit the right buttons. No problem for me.

With the angry mindset, I would have simply given up too soon. As it is, I am having fun and really just don't care so much about the outcome.

(Commenting on the same comment)

Here is an edited version of a recent post of mine on ASF.

Here is a massive upgrade in my thinking that happened recently: I don't try to control the chicks I approach. I've let go of that.

I now approach them in the spirit of offering to share whatever I'm feeling at the time: horniness, curiosity, good mood, creativity / humor, willingness to listen and connect on an emotional level. Any of those, or all of those. Whatever I'm feeling.

When approaching her (if I'm in good state), I feel free to do what I choose. She's free to do what she chooses ... be receptive, be frosty, whatever she wants. Just as I value my own freedom, I recognize and respect hers.

Because I'm not fixated on the outcome, I don't feel bad if the approach doesn't work.

I went out with a wing on Sunday night (unusually quiet in Sydney), and got blown off a few times, and it didn't faze me at all. Whereas even a few weeks ago, that would've been my cue to feel bad about myself for getting rejected.

So, for me, not feeling bad about getting rejected is a mind-blowing breakthrough. It wasn't due to the presence of a wing . I've been feeling and doing this during the past week.

Because I wasn't trying to control the chick and my interaction with her, because I was prepared to just roll with it and accept whatever happened, it didn't feel like a failure.

And because I didn't feel like I “failed,” I didn't have any reason either to beat myself up or to blame the chick for acting “bitchy.”

I did what I wanted by approaching her and opening. She did what she wanted by rejecting me. We both did what we wanted. Now, there are lessons in her reaction that I'm absorbing, but I treat it as pure feedback.

The world is telling me what works for me and what doesn't. That's great. That's what I want to find out.

And, she's letting me know that the two of us aren't right for each other in that instant. Whatever I'm offering, in that instant, it's not what she wants or is ready to accept. That's fine by me. That's her choice. Just as it's my choice to approach her.

And it's my choice not to spend time with a chick who doesn't want to spend time with me.

If you approach a chick with a mindset of demanding that the chick gives you what you want, and you don't get it, then how do you feel?

You either feel (a) “rejected” and bad about yourself, and start calling yourself a “failure.”

Or (b) you blame her for depriving you and you feel bad towards her.

Not only that, but in both (a) and (b) you relive similar feelings from past situations. Even more rejection ? “Oh no, not again.” Even more blame and resentment: “Those bitches, they're all the same.”

My recent insight is: you set yourself up for feeling bad with (a) or (b) by demanding rather than offering. If you let go, and simply offer, then there is no “failure.” There is only feedback.

Mystery has made this point, that there is only feedback, a number of times. It's only now that I understand what he was getting at. Because now I can feel the distinction between demanding and offering.

Yes, you didn't get everything you wanted in that moment. No, you don't have to feel bad about that. The world ... and this chick ... are telling you what works and what doesn't work for you, right now. That's it.

Here's another upgrade in my thinking: when you repeatedly feel bad in a sarging situation ... angry, depressed, fearful ... your emotional / unconscious mind is giving you a message. It's telling you that whatever you are doing isn't working for you.

The question is then: how much pain do you want to undergo before you change direction ? Before you change your beliefs, attitudes, behaviour ? How much inertia do you have ? How much pain will it take before you are ready to let go and embrace change ?

Some people don't want to let go, because they get a payoff from (a) or (b). The misery they feel is familiar, and, in a strange way, comforting. At least they know what to expect. So one payoff is a feeling of security ... a sense of control.

Because with personal change, anything could happen. You might make mistakes and suffer embarrassment. You might learn you have a lot of work to do on yourself. You might learn that you have had the freedom to choose differently all along, and now you have to accept the fact that you've wasted years of your life making the same poor choices over and over.

Confronting stuff.

Chicks have problems. So do guys. That's part of being human. That's partly why we enter relationships (I'll leave that topic for another time). Few of us have the maturity of the Dalai Lama.

Does blaming chicks for not giving you what you want help you to get what you want ? No ? Then why do it ? Where's the payoff ?

Does feeling bad about yourself when you get rejected help you to get what you want? No ? Then why do it ? Where's the payoff ?

Because make no mistake: when you repeatedly do something that makes you feel bad, you are getting a payoff somehow. If there wasn't a payoff, you would choose differently. You would make different choices.

You are in control of everything you do. You choose the girl. You choose what to wear, what to say, how to behave, where to go. You choose what to think, what to believe, what attitude to convey.

You choose all this, moment to moment. It may not feel like it. It may feel that you are pushed around, helpless, reacting, acting and thinking out of habit.

Yet at any time, you are free to stop, think, change direction, ask for help. You are free to choose. And you are free to act helpless and act out of habit, if you so choose.

Resentment comes from blame. Blame comes from demanding when the world says no. Blame is choice (b). Feeling bad about yourself is choice (a). These are the two choices you have if you demand rather than simply offer.

But if you simply offer, and let her choose, you find you have other choices, where you don't have to feel bad about yourself, or her either. You can simply accept whatever happens.

And if you don't get what you want, in that moment you have even more choices. You can move on to the next chick. You can stay with this one, but try a different tack (change your offer). You can repeat your offer, and see if she accepts it this time. Whatever you want. Freedom.

This is the point I've been trying to get to for some time. Not to fight against myself, but simply to step around myself.

To accept rejection, not block it out with an ego defense (“Bitch, she doesn't know what she's passing up”), and yet not feel bad about myself (“Fuck, not again, I'm hopeless”).

To stay aware. To be free of fear. To feel free to do what I want. A middle way, between blaming her and blaming me.

I'm not quite there yet. I backslide from time to time. But I'm close.

Commenting on MindAuger:So “We need the other paddle” would become something like “It would become quite apparent that at this juncture, we have a need for the additional flattened piece of wood whose function is to propel our water vessel across the shimmering lake we traversed earlier in the day.” Yeah, no kidding !

This last description of MA's stirred up some old memories, and I may be able to add something here. Example: “Scintillate, scintillate, styroid manific.” That sounds much more romantic than just “Twinkle, twinkle, little star,” doesn't it ? I'll have to look and see if I still have a hard copy of the sheet of 25 of these sayings, but I believe it is gone and I know that my electronic copy got zeroed when my hard drive crashed two years ago.

Commenting on Assman:My opener is shocking, and that gets their attention. If they go into alpha state of consciousness, then they are disarmed. All I must do then is deliver deepening patterns and suggestions. This, of course, does not always work, and then I either run away, or revert to more conventional tactics.

This sounds like a ballsy / cocky approach to Ross' humor approach, with the twist of physical comedy. Not like the Stooges, but more like Python or some of the “Candid Camera” skits. Going the wrong way on the escalator to happen to talk to an HB. “Acadamy of Funny Walks” sort of things.

The new 7-Up ad campaigns use a little of this. The taste test vs. dish soap. Obvious ambiguity: “Make 7, Up yours.” Things that are so ridiculous that they're funny. “I Love Lucy” is this to many people. I personally prefer George Carlin's style.

Another suggestive humor approach (Back to MindAuger's “lifeboat”) are the Airplane! silly routines. “Shirley you're kidding me,” “No I'm not, and stop calling me Shirley.”

Hope this helps on the redirect for a few brothers ...

(Commenting on Mystery: Remember that SS is designed for the LA cafe scene ... for 1:1 sets. A single target with no group around her. Most cities in the US and Canada do not have similar scenes ... Opening, raising interest, removing obstacles or people, noise and time constraints, getting them to trust you enough to sit with you. Then you can do SS.

I think you need to learn more about SS before you can make that comment. SS has many MAJOR influences outside of the LA cafe seen. Major Mark lives in a suburb in the midwest. The SS list has people from all around the world. SS can work just as well with groups of women or women in places outside of the cafe. It works because it is designed to work with the way people's (including HB 's) minds are structured. SS deals with "Opening, raising interest, removing obstacles or people, noise and time constraints, getting them to trust you enough to sit with you." And, you don't wait to do SS . You start SS in the beginning.

(Commenting on Assman: Be overbearing, and even sinister. Do these experiments and see just how timid people really are, and take advantage of the sheep who cower before you.)

I think this method is a form of desperation and being a bully. I'd also say that you got what you deserve if some women gets you arrested, or some guy (or woman) beats the daylights out of you. Plus, you're missing out on much of the fun of the seduction process. There are much better ways to get an adrenaline rush than by victimizing another person. Although I haven't seduced every woman that I've ever approached, I've never had to runaway or hide in fear.

Just wanted to comment on the tendency of some guys to harp on about their anger towards womenand the negative themes that might result on your list, as you had requested comments on this.

First of all, I don't think any of us are unique, in the sense that at one time we've all had our bad experiences with women. God knows I've had 'em.

However, to the guys who sit at home and brood about it (like I used to do) I say, simply: grow up.

Get some perspective ! If things aren't going well for you women-wise, take a look a long hard look in the mirror and figure out what you have done to contribute to your resentment. From my own experience you've had a bigger role than you think. And if you're really down about it ... really angry, really pissed off, maybe even dangerous ... then get some friggin' psychological help, or see your doctor about some medication, for crying out loud.

I myself spent over a year studying SS and barely field testing anything before I finally made some significant inroads to my own progress. I also discovered late last year that I had a health problem which wasn't helping me. That is now resolved.

My real progress in SS began after spending New Years (2001) with a lady whom I had established excellent rapport with, but for whom I just could not seem to bring myself to be “The Man” and sarge consistently. I AFC 'd it all the way, like an idiot. Nothing happened.

I was frustrated and depressed about it. And for a short time I was resentful towards her. But, fortunately, I did take a look in the mirror, and the next morning I decided enough was enough. I would not attach excess meaning to the situation, or any situation I might experience like it with other women.

The truth is, I was the weak part of the equation, in that I had done next to nothing to position myself as an interesting, tasty opportunity for her. I had also come from the perspective of being needful of the sex. Fuck. Talk about asking for frustration.

Recently, I posted my first and most recent success on the SS list. It was with the woman I mentioned above. And boys, I'm here to tell you that despite my AFC behavior in the past, I was able to sarge this gal and turn it into a No BS relationship. She is totally enthralled with me ... so much so, I have a hard time believing it myself sometimes. But her and I have a great time, the sex is great, we have tasty conversations, and I'm just having fun being the man.

Had I continued to be pissed off at her (when I should really been pissed of at myself), this experience would not have happened the way it did. It was like lightning came out of the frickin' sky when it all happened.

My overall point is, give women a break, guys. Take a long hard look in the mirror. This is not a war. If you go into it like it's a war, my belief is you'll just get “war time” results and aftermath. Christ. Who wants that ? I don't. Everyday I think about what Ross Jeffries and SS and Cliff and Tristan and all the other guys whom I've not even met yet but only studied from have given me, and I am extremely grateful for it. I have grown up a lot, and realize that women, like us, are not perfect, and that the whole thing does not have to be a struggle.

By the way Cliff, I have never gotten the impression that your list was negative towards women. Sure, the odd guy vents, maybe, but sometimes it's necessary to get it off their chest. Women are no different.

And for those people who are offended by any of the material on the list, I have one suggestion: go read a couple back issues of Cosmopolitan Magazine for some female perspective. Some of the stuff there could be considered equally offensive (maybe even more so) than anything I've read here.

Cliff: don't let the inmates run the asylum, and don't change a thing !

I have the details on pheromones. Used them for years and knew it would work some day. I came to the conclusion that you become the person in the spotlight, and so you have have to project your PUA-personality. Great work-out, as someone wrote on ASF . But painful.

What I learned from using androstenone and -ol containing products rendered me speechless for some time. I felt that every single person in a given space noticed me, but I couldn't react to what I was experiencing because I felt I had abandoned my mind.

Did you ever feel like you're on Big Brother ? It's a bit like that. If you are like me (an average Joe) and your self-image isn't made of steel bricks, it can make your conception of self and reality tremble wildly. Rambo possibly used a spray of pheromones before freaking out. I am not the kind of person that would run amok when confronting a town full of enemies. That way my body survived.

Any questions ? You cannot live like there's no tomorrow when you are being watched. So there's some good as well as bad news for you.

Again, someone on ASF said that wearing that pheromones is like working out. It is ... mentally. Hard to beat that. I am currently writing a book on the matter. Maybe there is someone who wants to translate it from German.

(Commenting on My Comment: My intuition is that we are onto something here with complicated, flowery words which have little or no meaning ... it appears women are excited by men who seem to be a little beyond their reach intellectually. We need to explore this further.)

This probably holds true more online, where your words are the main component of the image she's forming in her mind. In person, I've used confusion as part of an induction, but I don't think that's the mechanism at work here.

I wonder if women who use online services are smarter (or consider themselves smarter ?) and so tend to go for guys who are / appear intelligent. I've had women comment favorably on my vocabulary, but I tend to go for geek chicks ... so who knows ?

Just don't go so far that you start sounding like Al Sharpton ! :)

Mystery in Defense of Neg Theory

(Commenting on Broadaxe: The problem obviously lies with the chick, and not with the asshole. Sometimes neghits are necessary to get the female's attention. Jeez, this chick is 31 years old, and she takes what one guy says so seriously ? She needs to grow up ... If she is so messed up in her head that she can't dismiss that insult for what it was, then she deserves all the pain that she gets.)

Wow. Negs (not Neghits) are not blatant insults. And the reasoning as to why you think it's ok to insult her is mind numbing.

A neg is only useful on 9s and 10s. Never on lower rated girls. With a 10, you may perform one before she has given you a reason to, because it is quite likely she will neg you very soon.

Why ? Because this is their brush off mechanism. My sister once picked her nose to get rid of a guy. I used the, “Are you gonna watch ?” as I was ready to blow my nose. These are negs, too, and are not insults. A neg is something you do to convey to them that you aren't interested. Not by saying, “You stink,” but by telling her something you would not normally tell someone you liked. For example, whispering: “You should clean your ears.”

(Commenting on Halbmike: Dude, you are totally missing it. First, neghits are not necessary. Second, thinking that they are is a form of desperation that undermines you in several ways, including: 1) It really puts the power in the other person)

How so ? The power is not conveying your interest in her. You convey all the characteristics of an alpha male so that she will like you. And since you hadn't shown interest, the ball is in your court, and you may now play hard to get. While your presence says, “I'm interested,” your negs say, “I'm not.” This triggers a challenge. That is power.

Halbmike: 2) It undermines confidence

How so? I understand that insulting someone simply makes you look like a goof but ... a neg is a great way to lower a 10s self esteem. Neg theory is for Pro PUAs. If you are using negs on 6s and 7s, you are fucking up.

Halbmike: 3) Neghits aren't the best for rapport

You will rarely have rapport with a 10 you just met. In order to build rapport, you must first capture her respect. Negs aid you in doing this.

Halbmike: 4) They make you a bully

Aaaaaaa ... no. They don't. They show you aren't phased by their looks. That's it.

Halbmike: 5) They are a form of supplication

Aaaaaaa ... no. They show that you must not have a sexual interest in them. This way you slide under their radar.

Halbmike: 6) They decrease your flexibility and learning because you miss out on better methods

Totally disagree.

Halbmike: 7) Often people doing neghits appear incongruent when they do them

Huh ?

Look, I didn't invent neg theory out of some fantasized ideal. I discovered I got better results by using them on 9s and 10s. And ... I still do.

So ... let's say I approach a 5 set (3 girls, 2 guys) and I want to fuck the target, who is a 10. This is how to go about it. Enter and open the whole group. Ignore the target for now. Start disarming the obstacles, beginning with the men and then working across. Meanwhile, the target will still witness your conveying personality. So you tell your stories or routines (not patterns, as patterns are for 1:1) to the whole group, but aim them at the guys 'til the guys think you are cool.

You then perform a neg to the target (BTW: don't bother performing a neg to a target in a 1:1) like the “Pull My Finger” neg, and continue talking with the others while ignoring her. You may even alienate her by turning your back to her a bit, thereby nudging her right out of her own group of friends. You may (if you perform the photo routine) deny her seeing the photos you are showing her friends because she is being to “nosy.” That is another neg ... “Is she always this nosy ?”

Finally, after asking, “So how does everyone know each other ?” and discovering that the men are not BF 's or brothers, then you may speak directly to the target.

Halbmike: At many (perhaps all) of RJ's seminars he tells people that if someone is under your influence then they should also be under your protection. Neghits just make you an insecure bully.

I agree with Ross' comment. However, a neg is something you do to lower her protection shield and seek yours. You pick on her (either playfully or subtley), this makes her insecure and leaves her no longer feeling empowered by her beauty. She then seeks your approval. On a 10, you may perform a neg before she gives you a reason. If she gives you a reason (this is called testing) ... if she tests you, don't jump through her hoop (Hoop Theory). Simply call her on it and / or construct your own hoop.

Halbmike: As for this woman, I think most women who receive a comment like that would probably be self-conscious to some extent, and it would affect them for a long time.

Was she a 10 ? If she was a 6 or 7, don't use negs ! And, yes, a neg is supposed to undermine their self-confidence. The only times you would ever have to do such a thing, though, is if the woman is a 9 or 10.

Never anatomically compliment a 9 or 10. But ... a 6 ? Hell, tell her you think she is a hottie if you want. The point is to “Treat a 10 like a 6 and a 6 like a 10.”

Halbmike: This woman is a very bright, well-adjusted woman who has dealt very well with a horrible handicap. Unfortunately, because of her tragic past, his comment was probably especially hurtful to her. However, when people first meet, you don't always know if you're dealing with the fragile eggshell.

I agree with this. If a woman is missing fucking body parts, don't neg her about it ! She is not a 10 if she is missing body parts. Negs are for 10s ! Crippled chicks don't get negged ! I can't believe I put out a great theory and then people take it and use it on one eyed wretches. This is fucked up. Haaa.

Halbmike: Just because I can physically force a woman to have sex with me doesn't mean that it is an acceptable approach, or that my self-esteem will be enhanced by raping someone. Sometimes psychological abuse is worse.

Negs are meant to lower self esteem on someone who believes she is above you. That's it. Don't knock her knee caps off. It's a neg, not an insult. And especially not physical abuse. You guys boggle, haaa.

And, negging should only occur in front of others, to make her feel self-conscious. You don't have to address the entire group, but make her feel shy around her friends for awhile (like when you tell her that her nose wiggles when she talks ... you do that so the whole group hears but the “You've got something on your nose” is whispered to her.)

Here's another: “You should use cream on your elbows ... they're like KFC.”

That is a neg ... not a blatant insult. It's light hearted and you aren't saying it to her to hurt her feelings but to “help.” Or saying you love girls with blue eyes if she has brown eyes. It's not an insult ... just a neg.

(Commenting on Thranduil : I partially agree with you, but the problem with your approach is that it doesn't work with super HB 's or extremely confident women.)

Agreed. That is why neg theory was invented. Some girls need to be lowered a notch or three.

Thranduil: The reason is that they already have all the power, because they are used to it. The other men always give them this power. You can't empower them because in their mind, they have more power than you. The neg is useful in cases like that.

Precisely !

Thranduil: With a neg, you get her to fall down from her pedestal and realize that you are different and have more power than other men and her

Another precisely ! Now we are getting it ! : D

Halbmike: First, I only go for super HBs who are extremely confident women.

Have you seen pix of my chicks in my lounge ? Are we on the same playing field ?

Halbmike: Nobody has anymore power over you than the power that you give them. It is all in your mind. The way to convey more power and show that you're different from other men is to act with more power.

What is happening here is a misunderstanding of the word power. I would prefer not even to use it.

See, when a woman of quality (a 10) discovers that you want her, she has already won. By the fact that you like her, she has already disqualified you because you are like all the rest. So we say we have the power when they don't know we like them. So we keep it hidden, and convey our personality until we see indications of interest. We don't give many IOIs to her, but look for IOI's from her ! And ... once we have enough IOIs, we go for the close and make it hard for her, thereby adding value. The challenge is there all the way to the # close or kiss close.

Halbmike: Also, most of the time you don't have to show that you have more power than either her or other men.

You are now talking about a different power. We were first talking about the power gained through knowing something (the fact that one wants the other) and you have warped that into Alpha Male Power. These debates have broken down due to miscommunication. I blame the English language personally.

Halbmike: You merely have to gain her respect. Remember this isn't about a power contest, this is about seduction. However, holding power is useful. Henry Kissinger said “Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac.”

Wants ta know my thoughts on dis ? OK, I'll tells ya. I don't believe it. Henry Kissinger did not get laid more than me. So ... who ya gonna believe ?

You know what is the ultimate aphrodisiac ? Listen closely ... a sense of mystery.

Mystery said, “Mystery is the ultimate aphrodisiac.”

Halbmike: However, I don't think it got him laid a whole lot, but it probably helped. Some people are so focused on neghitting that they are forgetting about much more important concepts. Most importantly, I think seduction is about leading yourself and woman to wonderful, blissful, ecstatic states.

Yeah, I think often I'm throwing pearls before swine. My material and theories are pro-rated and some royal AFCs try and use them with crash and burn results. Anyone wishing to see it in action, let's hook up. I don't even think about it anymore ... it's completely internalized into my game now.

Halbmike: When you become the link to her pleasure she will gladly spread her legs for you.

The use of negs is to get her to respect you so you may continue talking and conveying words that will make her feel good. I'd love to go straight up to a 10 and talk all seductive, but then, many of the AFCs who approach her try that with crash and burn results. I'm up for any challenge people set forth ... not for money just personal pride. I'd like to know once and for all ... who is the best PUA ? The way I figure it, if I win, I get bragging rights. If I lose, well then hell, I just met someone better than me and can learn something useful finally !

Halbmike: Those of you who read Bishop's seductions will notice that this is one of the core elements of almost all of his masterful seductions. This is a primary function of his "Warmth Builder" and many of his other patterns.

Patterns are for 1:1. Once you have your 10 in a 1:1 situation (like sitting on the couch in the dark corner of a club) you don't need negs anymore !

Halbmike: Another very important factor in seductions is being able to structure challenges and offer inviting opportunities. Structuring challenges will often do many of the things you guys are trying to do with the neghits, and accomplish those purposes in a much more elegant and effective manner. Challenges can be an effective tool for shifting the balance of power.

Structure challenges ? Yes ... a neg will do that. She will feel that you don't like her as much as all the other guys do, so will try harder to make you behave the same before she throws you back into the water. That is why more than one neg is useful on a single girl.

And, yes, of course you can go overboard with them. Never do more than 3 on a chick you just met.

There are also two meanings to “structuring opportunities.” This usually refers to offering an opportunity to close. The other is to open yourself up to wisecracks from her. She may take it or pass.

(Commenting on Max:: Negging any part of someone's physique is bad and wrong, it may cause long term damage.)

I don't agree. Pointing out to a girl that her spindly fingers remind you of ET is great ! Just don't pick on breast size, ass, legs ... neck is ok, too. Another ET crack ! Truth is, if you can pick on a girl's breasts or ass, she ain't a 10 and you shouldn't be negging anyhow.

Max:: I also won't neg on something expensive that a woman might have (e.g. car, furniture ...)

Hmm, I don't have any negs that fit this. I mean, I don't make up negs on the fly. That's just lameass. I know my negs and use them when appropriate. The only one fitting of a clothing thing is, “I like your dress. I saw you in it the last time I was at this club. You must really like it, too,” or “You know, there is another girl with this exact same dress on in here.” That's about it, but hell, who cares how much the dress costs. You guys sure think in a strange way haaa.

Max:: I have no second opinion about that issue. What I do usually is neg on little items, like an earring, the color of her pants or manicure ... something that can be changed with no or minimal cost.

This makes no sense ... what are the negs you use ? Say, for an earring? You just make something up on the spot ? What and pick on it ? I'm confused here.

Halbmike: If you're going to neghit (which I don't recommend) I think these are great rules to follow.

Same here. When I say something is lameass, I say it in a tone like when I talk with a good buddy. Fair ? Fair.

(Commenting on Assman: I don't need to provide social proof and disarm them with brilliant chit chat. My opener is shocking, and that gets their attention.)

I would like to set forth a challenge to you. Let's see whose system gets more efficient results. (Just a playful challenge of course ... we could sarge together sometime ... for fun.)

Assman: For the average PUA your approach is superior ... but the rush you get from a paternal induction (masculine, shock type) is unmatched by the maternal seduction / induction, where you sort of lull them to sleep.

Aaah I see ! Cool ! That's a very good way to see it. I'm more maternal than paternal, but use the daddy scolding baby act on special occasions. Usually it's for relationship issues and not the actual PU, though. Do you have any examples ?

Assman: Be overbearing, and even sinister. Do these experiments and see just how timid people really are, and take advantage of the sheep who cower before you.

Very interesting opener concept. I'm curious as to the various reactions you've gotten in the field. Can you give some scenarios (and not just the good ones but the bad ones too) ?

(Commenting on My Comment: It seems that most of the time when some guy gets very successful with women, it was spurred on by a degree of rage from some deeply hurtful experience. I think that to pretend that these feelings aren't there is misleading, but it is more important and productive to get past that and change unhealthy attitudes to more positive ones. Comments ?)

An invitation, thanks. I do not fully agree with that. I think being successful means having success. It is not about sex alone.

My concern with women, whom I have never been very successful with, is to combine sexual success with emotional bliss. This is impossible for me at the time and hurts me badly. Being hurt doesn't make me hurt people back, but I try to rethink my approach every time I miss my goal only slightly (hasn't happened, the slightly thing).

I rethink myself, undo and redo but don't forget. Try that. Hey bros, what about being successful by fate, luck, proper attitude ... ? You don't have to convert that into anger, or should you ? I want to know: what nice guy did get laid ? And I don't mean with the strippers. Can Mr. Nice enter the body of the neighbor's little girl ?