I sold her on her need
Announcing: CliffsList.com Presents
Cliff's List will soon be releasing a number of products under the CliffsList.com Presents banner. This will not only include the DVD products from the Cliff's List Conventions, but other products for which Cliff's List acts as publisher in conjunction with a variety of creative writers and filmmakers, and we are looking for more products to work with.
We will provide everything that is needed to put your product out, including arranging for the replication, fulfillment, affiliate system ... in fact, everything other than the product itself.
If you have a unique, quality product which is on a related subject, including a book, DVD, CD, or other product, and are interested in having Cliff's List market it, please contact us by email.
Check out our new Reviews section ! Get the scoop on the latest seduction products, boot camps, workshops, and services: www.cliffslist.com/reviews. Want to be a reviewer for Cliff's List ? We are particularly interested in hearing from anyone who has attended recent boot camps, seminars, workshops, etc., so let us know about your experiences !
Girl Method, Get Hitched, Style, Brent, and more.
- Frank Kermit: The Great Intoxication / How to Run a Successful Non-Commercial Lair
- Rome4love: Free Dating Site
- Metalhaze: Guess Her Muff
- Credit Score Dating
- Ross Jeffries: Speed Seduction Subtitled
- Sean Stephenson: One Hour Video
- Neil Strauss: L.A. Weekly Article
- Papa: Building the Well-Rounded RSD
Lifestyle- IceDragon: Solving the Algebra Equation
- Zardoz: LR
: You're too old for me
Girl Method: Girls invite you to attend our first Los Angeles group outing on May 2 2009. We will teach men how to be men that women want. Make sure to mention you heard about it on Cliff's List ! www.cliffslist.com/node/859
Response to Hoobie (www.skillsofthegame.com/)
I also have been involved in what is now called "The Game" for a long time, and last year, at age 42, finally got married to a nearly perfect girl. I would not say that I have retired from the game, but I now have more of a "catch and release" approach.
Turning thirty is a significant period for all guys, and we tend to do a lot of soul searching. I enjoyed your article, and while reading it, something really jumped out at me. I have a small piece of advice, if you are open to it. You really need to figure out what you want, and far more importantly why you want it. Seeing people you know become married and happy should not be a reason to get married, and seeing people go though terrible divorces should not be a reason to stay single. You are not any of them.
If you look at any endeavor from marriage to music to stock trading, you will find people who are wild successes, and others who are tragic failures. Learn from their successes and failures, but don't let their very existence influence what you ultimately want for yourself.
Best of luck on wherever you go next.
As a defiant young kid, I first started going to nightclubs when I was 12 years old. At the time, I convinced a nightclub owner to give me a job passing out fliers to promote concerts at the Cattle Club in my hometown of Sacramento. As a result, the owner of the club would get me in and sneak me backstage to hang out with rock bands like Bush, Korn, and Deftones.
I’d also hang out on the dance-floor and bar with all of the college girls to grind the night away. I think I looked older for my age, because those college girls got pretty freaky on the dance floor with me, and they must have assumed I went to the college across the street with them.
It was the perfect job for me, because the bar was across the street from the California State University of Sacramento, where my father was a professor at the time. He’d pick me up after work at the university, and would even let me stay out late at night until the club closed. My father had a very active youth, and supported anything I wanted to do as long as I kept my head on my school, where I was a straight A student and heavily involved in athletics.
However, I always felt like there was more adventure to be gotten. I was always restless. Thus, when I got to high school, I took things to the next level. I convinced my parents to allow me to attend a boarding school in New Jersey, near New York City. It was like living in the movie Cruel Intentions. In addition to witnessing social politics on a high level, the owners of a popular NYC nightclub let me rent it out and host my first private party for my underage high school class.
I loved hosting parties, so when I got to college at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, I started throwing huge parties. I’d rent out 50 foot yachts; 3 story nightclubs where I’d recreate the masquerade ball from the movie Romeo and Juliet; and throw big parties with my fraternity at a $30 million mansion on the lake.
My parties got me so much attention in magazines and newspapers that I decided to take my involvement with night life to the next level, and I got recruited by the New York Office of Playboy Magazine to be a marketing representative for the Playboy College Marketing Office. I got to throw parties where my role was to promote the “Girls of the Big 10 Colleges,” assist with model interviews, photo-shoots, and venue-scouting.
My parties led me to adopt the nickname, “Nick Papageorgio.” This was because my friends thought I reminded them of the character Nick Papageorgio from Chevy Chase’s Las Vegas Vacation. In the movie, Nick Papageorgio was an underage kid in Vegas who threw extravagant parties. This was similar to what I was doing. Eventually, the name got shortened to “Papageorgio,” then “Papa G,” and finally to just “Papa.”
These big parties made me very popular at school. Even on a large campus like the University of Wisconsin, everyone knew who I was. Girls would be interested in me because of these parties and the social status I created with them. But I wasn’t dating the girls that I really wanted, and I wasn’t sure how to attract those stunning girls that weren’t interested in me for me. I felt like a lot of the girls liked me for my adventures and parties, but not just for me.
Well, I decided to find a solution.
My friends and fraternity brothers used to meet on a regular basis at a strip club, where we’d talk about how to pick up girls. We were so into picking up girls that we even wrote jokes, stories, and scripts to say to girls … scripted pick up lines. My friends and I were convinced that we created masterpieces because we got amazing, sporadic successes, and we shared crazy stories, but it resulted in some big embarrassments as well.
I remember one date with a gorgeous Gap model, where I had prepared 7 hours of scripted conversation that, at the time, I thought was full of brilliant lines. The problem was that the girl wasn’t very talkative, and what I thought was going to be 7 hours turned into 3 hours, followed by 4 more hours of lots of silence because I didn’t trust myself to say anything as interesting as the weeks of preparation of “canned/scripted material” that I was using.
One of my friends found a website on the Internet that had more pickup lines to use, and I got addicted. I thought I needed more lines, so for the next year and a half, I dropped everything in my life: school, friends, work, everything, and, all day long, I studied picking up girls. I went out during the afternoons to practice picking up girls, and went out at night and continued to pickup girls.
When I get involved in anything, I go to the extreme. My curiosity in aerospace engineering got me to create a team of engineers in the Air Force ROTC, raise $100,000 for a NASA project on a zero gravity flight on the KC-135 that I flew out of Johnson Space Flight Center, and got me a NASA Academy contract. My interest in politics had me run for Wisconsin State Senate. My interest in business spurred me into jobs at Fortune 500 companies. Picking up girls would be taken to the extreme as well.
I proceeded to memorize and practice using pickup lines and, within a few months, I had hundreds of pages of scripts. During the day, I’d make up new ways to pickup girls. I loved treating the world like my own social experimentation laboratory. My excitement for pickup in general had me travel to random metropolitan cities around the world just to explore my curiosity about picking up girls from around the world.
Each day, I obsessively wrote “field reports” detailing my expeditions picking up girls and the details of the success I was getting. What started off as a few hundred people reading my online articles, soon became thousands. Then, I was invited to join an underground fraternity of other guys who were doing the same thing. It was called The Lounge, and I became its admissions officer.
I started travelling around the world meeting other prospective members to see if they were good with girls, and I’d invite them to join our fraternity. My obsession was to find any missing pieces that might help me get the hotter and hotter girls, to help me take my game to the next level.
I became a much more self reliant and dominant personality. I experimented with crazy ways to pickup girls. I would pickup girls in my car, on the streets, in shopping malls, on the train, in the plane, everywhere. And I was meeting others, like Tyler, who were on the same pickup mission as I was.
However, travelling around the world is expensive. Soon, I ran out of money, but a random guy from the Internet who had read about me emailed me, and said he’d pay for my airfare to fly to San Diego to teach him how to pickup girls. I said I’d do it if he’d invite my friend, Tyler, as well. And he agreed.
So we flew down there and we met the guy, who happened to be a 23 year old virgin. After working with him for 2 weeks, he got his first kiss, and a few weeks later, he got laid for the first time. Soon, he was telling everyone about us, and we started getting invitations to teach others as well. So we created a curriculum and started selling seats for a $600 workshop while hosting dinner parties for prospects in major metropolitan cities around the world.
Thus, we would travel to random major metropolitan cities and teach a dozen students. Then, the next weekend, we’d teach 2 dozen students. Another weekend, we’d have 3 dozen students. Soon, we’d have as many as 60 students in 1 weekend in London a few months later. That’s when I knew that we really had a business now.
So I decided to take the underground world of pickup artists from the Lounge and turn it into the first corporation dedicated to teaching guys how to pick up girls with wingmen educating students through real world experience (similar to how Russell Simmons did the same with pioneering the path to take the underground hip hop world into a world-wide influencing business.)
My friends decided to move with me to LA, and I took a lease on a $4.5 million mansion in the Hollywood Hills to become our Headquarters because my friends and I believed it was the city with the hottest girls in the world. This house had the history of being the ol’ “Rat Pack Party Mansion,” where Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, and the crew used to party; and my bedroom had belonged to Dean Martin. I built a company infrastructure out of this house.
A couple years later, I moved out of the house, spread our staff all over the world to gain global reach, and got an office at a plaza in Pasadena to manage the business. We formed a global mastermind group of the guys whom Tyler and I found to have the most amazing skills with girls, great core values, and a passionate desire and ability to help others transform their lives to achieve amazing success with girls and life in general.
Due to a post-Grammies party hosted at our Project Hollywood Mansion, I met a socialite who invited me to the grand opening of a celebrity party club in a skyscraper in Beverly Hills. Here, I got my first exposure to my new passion, the Young Hollywood lifestyle. At this party, each floor was packed with ten women to every man. Every sexy female celebrity and super-model was in attendance, and I decided right away to do whatever it took to get deep into this.
Thus, I put my social life above and beyond everything, and dove as deep as I could into the world of Young Hollywood. I was eventually elected onto the Members Board of the elite Young Hollywood party organization, Xenii. Members paid $1000-$25,000 per month to party with gorgeous models and celebrities. I networked my way through Young Hollywood until I became what I consider to be the equivalent of a “Social Senator.”
I learned how to treat my social life like a business because I am a businessman. I spend a lot of time developing it and put just as much time improving it. You can find me spending 2-3 hours a week sending out text messages to guys and girls to continue to build upon my relationships. My number 1 rule was that whenever someone asked me to do something social, I would always say “Yes !”
As a result, I found myself being invited to daily parties at mansions in the Hollywood Hills, movie studios events, cocktail parties at private residences, taking executive retreats with successful CEOs and socialites to famous special events (i.e. Sundance Film Festival, Playboy Mansion parties, exotic vacations.) And I’d use the skills I learned to pickup girls to help me to build a fun lifestyle and make great friends, in addition to picking up amazing girls.
All of this was done while I finished up my Masters in Business Administration at the University of Southern California, where I studied Entrepreneurship and the Entertainment Industry. However, right about the time when I graduated, Xenii disappeared due to the investors pulling out. I stayed in touch with all of the great friends I made during my adventures in it, but I decided it was time to get back into RSD Instructor mode.
Now, I have a great dating life with beautiful girls, have an amazing social circle, and amazing world travelling adventures and experiences. I’ve used my skills to gather friends and build a global business while simultaneously building a global social network. In addition to learning the skills of pickup, I’ve gained overall life and social skills. There is nothing more important than the relationships we form with people important to us, especially our friends and family.
In addition to going out with the RSD boys to pickup girls, I am often introduced to girls through my social circle now. In between longer-term girlfriends, I’ve had a few months in which I’ve had dates every night of the week (some from cold approaches and others from my social circle.)
Today, I’ve transformed from someone who was young, naïve, and often at a loss for words, but very ambitious, into someone who has approached tens of thousands of of strangers in random public places around the world, forming relationships, picking up girls, and building a global network. I’ve found myself comfortable in almost any scenario due to constantly pushing my comfort zone. My adventure still seems to have just started though.
While my business partner, Tyler, and I met in Hawaii, we came to the conclusion that he would return to Los Angeles and help me grow Real Social Dynamics on a business administration level with our local HQ staff. In return, I’d resume my mission as an RSD Instructor, and continue to teach students through boot camps and seminars. I’ve found this decision to be one of the most inspiring and life-changing choices that I’ve ever made.
People joke about my love for “high society,” and I’ve always enjoyed playing around in the high status venues, primarily because of the types of girls that I meet. However, my love for it is so strong that I’ve continually put the growth of the organization as my highest priority, and I’ve reinvested nearly every penny I’ve gotten from RSD back into the business.
We continue to bootstrap just like when I began my journey, travelling around the world as a poor college student, spending countless hours studying pickup, and crashing on people’s couches to learn about how to pickup. Instead of travelling in hotels, I stay for free with RSD volunteers. Instead of paying for flights, I’m doing an RSD seminar road trip across the USA and Europe via train. And our marketing is still almost all via “word of mouth” due to our thousands of success stories.
The skills I learned while studying how to pickup girls have changed every aspect of my life for the better, too, including non-pickup related aspects of my life, such as inspiring me to train heavily for the Iron Man triathlons that I’ll be racing this year; fulfilling my passions in travel, dining, and education; and also in building an amazing network of friends around the world that I value more than anything. And I hope that you will all use the skills to transform your life.
Solving the Algebra Equation
Every feeling that you get is created by you. Every emotion and every thought you have ever had is a product of your own imagination. No external force can get inside your head, unless you let it. Would you ever allow anyone to dump their garbage in your garden ? Of course not. So why let anyone pour garbage into your mind ?
If you’re feeling ecstatic, sad, lonely, angry, miserable, depressed – it’s all down to you.
Face it, if everything you see is yellow, you need to get your eyes checked out for jaundice. Two different guys can see totally different things. One can look down and see the mud beneath his feet, the other can look up and gaze at the stars. If you see negativity and cynicism in the world around you, what are women going to see in you ?
Bullshit, I’m hearing a lot of you say. The world is an unfair, ugly place. If so-and-so didn’t do that to me, if so-and-so didn’t say this to me, I wouldn’t feel down. I would have the woman I desire, the job I crave, I’d be who I wanted to be. That would make me happy.
Maybe you think this article does not directly relate to pickup and seduction. Maybe it does not give you any cool new openers or techniques, or a juicy lay report. Change that maybe to probably; even if it was definitely, I still want to get this message across. Trust me, if you internalize this, then not only will you be happier, you will improve the lives of those around you, and you will attract the kind of women you seek. All women are emotional creatures, and as a man, it is your job to ensure that you are emotionally stable, so that you can transfer some of your masculine stability onto her. The woman will never want to leave you. Ready to take your inner game to a new level ? Good. Read on.
I had a beginner student at my martial arts class last night, and he stayed back at the end of the class and had a chat with me. “What are you looking for from the martial arts training ?” I enquired. “Well, I want to get a black belt, and to be able to do the splits.” Interesting. I asked him if that would make him happy. I told him to think about it for a minute before answering. He was genuinely dumbfounded, and didn’t have an answer to that, except, “Wow, what did you do just there ? I’ll never know. But you put things into perspective.”
Just now, I got back from watching the Marco Antonio Barrera vs. Amir Khan boxing match with some buddies in their apartment. I had left my girlfriend in a happy mood, she was reading her new “Confessions of a Shopaholic” book I bought her, and painting her toenails.
I came back, and she was sitting there all miserable. Apparently she’s worried about her skin, because she got a couple of zits on her face. I told her plain and clear, “Listen carefully, because I’m not going to sit here and hold your hand. When I left you here three hours ago, you were happy. Now you’re miserable. Has there been any change in circumstances since that time elapsed ?” She shook her head. “Then you’ve created this reality inside your own head. You have chosen to be miserable. But, you’re not going to make me miserable with you, because I’m feeling great.” Then I left to go to the living room.
She came to me around 30 minutes later, and apologized. Then I reminded her of a funny moment we had, and she burst out laughing. A simple change in a person’s thought process will create a whole new reality.
I could have chosen to sit with her and wallow in her “pain.” “Oh, it’s okay baby, everything will be just fine, please don’t cry, you are so beautiful.”
That is not alpha behaviour, for a start, and it is the polar opposite of emotional stability.
After I had changed her emotion, I came up with a solution for her zits. “Make an appointment with your doctor first thing Monday morning. It may be an allergy to something that you wear, something that you ate. Or, it could be hormones. In the meantime, I’ll Google some herbal, homeopathic remedy for you.”
Who was it that said, “Worrying is like trying to solve an algebra equation by chewing gum ?” Baz Luhrmann, I think.
Make time for yourself. Spend quality time on yourself, developing yourself. Look after you. Treat yourself to a nice walk by the lake, got to an expensive seafood restaurant by yourself during lunch, take a walk to the shopping mall, buy that ice-cream you’ve been looking at, treat yourself to a new watch. Enjoy being with just yourself and your thoughts. Learn to say no to people. If anyone calls you up and you’re at work, you would most likely say, “Sorry, I’m at work, I’ll call you back when I finish.”
Why is it that when you’re by yourself, and in your thoughts, and someone calls you and wants something, you’ll do it for them, because you’re “Not doing anything ?” You would feel guilty and selfish if you didn’t. Of course you are doing something. You’re looking after number one, and gathering your thoughts. Like tending a garden. Don’t be a pleaser. Tell them you’re busy, and you’ll call them in your own time. Why people treat their jobs as being more important than their person, their own “selves,” their own “mental peace,” is beyond my comprehension.
Bottom line. Look after yourself, and create your own reality. Become emotionally powerful and unshakeable. Cultivate your inner game regularly, and girls, money, jobs, and friends, will flock to you.
LR
: You're too old for meI met her at a bar, did a little role paying, push pull, kino and Facebook closed. Nothing much came of it. Then I met her again outside a different bar. I happened to be hanging out with a mutual friend, so there was social proof. Some random guy was chatting her up when I re-opened.
me … and that's why he loses. He tries.
I number close her with, "We should hang out sometime."
Three days later I see her on Facebook. We chat. She invites me over. I agree, and then at the last moment I flake.
We arrange another meeting at her place. I go this time. Within five minutes, her legs are on my lap. I put them there. Five minutes later we're kissing. She asks how old I am. I'm 30, she's 19, and has issues with the age.
We chat on Facebook and she tells me I'm much too old for her. I agree completely. But we should be friends. I want to talk to her about my dating life and girls I'm seeing. She doesn't like this too much, but agrees.
She invites me over for tea. I get resistance, the age issue. I say … that's great. I'm glad we can just be friends, because I have some dating issues you can give me great feedback on. She doesn't like this again, but agrees.
She hasn't had sex in 6 months, although she's very beautiful and has many suitors. She prefers to stay at home and read, watch TV, paint. She's a bit out of the loop and has some social anxiety. "That's because you need to get laid. I'll take you out to meet guys, and you can help me." She is hesitant about this idea, but agrees, since she does need to get laid.
I post pictures of myself having fun with some attractive girls. She messages me, I ignore it. She messages me the next day with an invite for coffee at her place. I agree … but flake at the last minute. She's quite disappointed. Then, I text back an hour later, "It looks like I have a few hours after all."
I get to her place, there are candles, wine, she's all done up and there's a blanket on the floor. That's where we got naked, and eventually had sex. Her idea.
The key was non-resistance. I didn't try to sell her on me; I sold her on her need for sex. 6 months is a long time.
