Women Today Really Aren't Worth The Time

You know, all these books, websites, etc. on how meet and date attractive women are so phony it's ridiculous.

There's no way in the world I'd spend money on DVDs (such as David DeAngelo's stuff) that show me step-by-step what to do to approach a woman. My feelings are be yourself. Don't change just for the sake meeting women. Forget all these “cocky and funny” theories. If a woman doesn't like me for who I am, then she isn't worth the time of day.

And as far as I'm concerned, most women today really aren't worth the time or effort. Just had to get that off my chest. Cliff's List is fine for those that get their kicks using various pickup lines and negs to get women, but for a guy like me, well I won't stoop to that level.

By the way I'm 57 years old and trust me it was far easier back the the seventies to meet women than it is today. Woman back then were not narcissistic like today and were far more approachable. You just acted normal when talking to women, basically not having to go through all the pick up lines and techniques that people like David DeAngelo and others seem to preach.

If attractive women today are that difficult to approach without being on the defensive (such as a guy having to go through the trouble of removing her bitch shields) then I say forget about them.

Barron, thanks for saying what I am sure a lot of guys are thinking. I've been meaning to take some time and write out what Cliff's List is all about, what the principles are that I had in my head when I started this list, and which still guide what I do here today.

First, I always hope that by giving guys examples of what others are saying, I present them with the choice of seeing what is out there and finding the method or strategy that they feel most comfortable with. There are guys who need the canned material (the pick up lines and negs that you refer to). And there are also responses to questions that come up from women that most guys really don't have good answers for. So I do think there is some value to most of what is written out there, in terms of using these nuggets of wisdom for situations that need a good response.

In terms of the phoniness of the lines and techniques that you read, I think that is only a part of what is out there. Cliff's List is, in my mind, the collective efforts of men to help each other become more successful with women. Today, apart from those teaching specific things to do and say, there are some very extraordinary men with quite brilliant insights into social dynamics who make it clear that they don't believe in “pick up lines” or in “canned routines.”

Some of the most successful coaches teach a natural game, where they help guys to change their thinking. They will help put you on the road to creating a different reality by believing in yourself and feeling that you deserve and can have the success with women that you want.

You have to understand that most guys who are not successful don't want to hear “just be yourself.” The person who they are when they are “being themselves” is not having success, so they are looking to make changes. That does not mean, however, that the changes have to be artificial. It is possible for your personality to grow and adapt while the most essential parts of you remain as they are.

Some of the coaches' promotional material may not necessarily give this impression, but at the core of what they are teaching is not only fundamental social wisdom, but often revolutionary ideas about how men and women interact and connect.

I hesitate to specify the guys I am referring to, because I truly believe that readers need to find the right guy for themselves and not rely on my (or anyone else's) suggestions or recommendations. I have seen guys in seminars and boot camps “get it,” and what worked for them usually didn't work for all the others in those same seminars and boot camps. So always look for what works for you rather than listening to anyone else.

Not to discount others, I have found that Brent, Payton Kane, Adam Lyons, and Johnny Soporno have some great insights to offer.

Brent's down to earth, simple, yet counter-intuitive coaching incorporates changing your beliefs (very much like "The Secret" and the Law of Attraction) with learning to become more comfortable in social situations and letting go of seeking outcomes, as well as how not to pursue women.

Payton Kane, who is seen as more of a “pick up” coach, is really a master of the games people play. He really has a special insight into the key counter-intuitive nature of how “if you want them, they don't want you, and if you don't want them, then they want you.” Payton is also very much against the idea of pick up lines, and works to develop a person's confidence and presence.

Adam Lyons has many great insights to share, particularly about the flow of natural conversation.

Johnny Soporno has a revolutionary new paradigm to share with the world ... a whole new approach to how men and women relate to each other. His ideas are based on a solid, logical foundation that, once understood, has the potential to replace men's and women's conventional ideas of relationships with something a lot more in line with the underlying reality.

As for David DeAngelo, like many of the teachers out there he has a pretty far-reaching scope, and I think you may get a different impression of his materials depending on which product or products you study.

Frankly, as I understand it, most of the gurus in the seduction community are geared towards teaching men to be comfortable with themselves and to develop or increase their personal confidence so that they can relate to women in a more intelligent and fun manner.

I also am skeptical about your comment that women in the 70s were far easier to meet. I think it's the same as it always has been ... there are friendly women, and then there are women who are difficult. It will probably always be like this. If you gravitate toward ones who are more open and easier to talk to, you will have a better impression of women than someone who tends to find the more difficult ones.

Please don't read this and dismiss the gurus who teach pick up lines and routines out there ... there are a lot of guys with great ideas and methods that are truly worth learning from, including those who prefer canned material. But always keep in mind to look for what works you.