This is how the game is played boys

Guys, I have been in this community for three years and have had some great success. But a couple of months ago I started doing something very different. Since then, my success has soared. The influence of guys like RJ, Rick, Mystery, Style, Nathan, Juggler, and Rio has definitely pushed me in the right direction. And even though I still use bits and pieces of what I have learned from other systems, I am now doing something very different. I feel that I have really come into my own as a PUA. That is to say, I no longer do pure DYD, SS, or MM. I just do Swinggcat.

Moving forward:

Qualifying & Challenging them: What I am going to suggest is going to sound a bit odd to you, but it absolutely works. And what I am going to suggest is designed for really hot, adventurous girls. That's what I screen for. This shit really works for me: meaning that when I go to bars lately, I am at the very least consistently making out with girls. And often times, getting them to buy into the frame of doing a threesome with me.

Almost, as soon as I start talking to a chick, I begin qualifying her. For example, I might say to her: “You seem like you might be adventurous, are you ?” If she says yes (which she oftentimes does, and if she doesn't, then I am not interested in her anyways) then I say:

“Good, because if you weren't I was going to walk away, because I am only friends with adventurous people. And even though you might be adventurous, I don't know if this relationship is going to work out, because I am not sure you can handle me.”

Then I will do the same thing with spontaneity.

“Are you spontaneous ? Good, then we can hang out. But I don't know how spontaneous you are yet, so I can't take you to any of my cool places yet.”

Then I will ask them about the craziest place they ever had sex.

Now some of you are thinking: how can he do this so early on in the conversation ? The reason I “can” is that I have already gotten them to commit to being adventurous and spontaneous. So, through the principle of commitment and consistency, they have to be consistent with what they have committed to. If they act prudish, then they will come across as if they are lying about being adventurous and spontaneous.

Then they will usually ask me where craziest place I ever had sex was. Then I go into a variant of Style's “fucked my girlfriend at a sex show in a foreign country” story. Then I continue qualifying them by telling them that I am only friends with girls who are into girls too (this sets the stage for threesome activities.) If they say no, then I tell them that we could never be friends, because they cannot hang with my level of adventure.

It is funny to see how many girls become bi after this.

Then I talk about kissing. I ask them: on a scale of 1-10, how good of a kisser are you ? They usually will say a ten (hot chicks want to sustain their value as a hot chick.) Then I kiss them.

Why does this work ? This works because I am challenging three things she has committed to being true about who she is: how adventurous she is, how spontaneous she is, and how good of a kisser she is.

Some of you might not be getting this yet, so let I will go a little more in depth on what I am up to.

Making Myself Appear Vulnerable:

Not only does qualifying and challenging work, it dispels any player vibe they had about me because I am making myself vulnerable. In other words, I am telling the chick that I am a sucker for adventurous, spontaneous bi girls. I am telling her how to seduce me. But here's the catch: as soon as she does not play by my rules, I close up. So, I am a vulnerable guy as long as she is playing by my rules. As soon as she isn't, I become cold and aloof. Or even worse, I next her.

Push-Pull Theory:

Another distinction we can make when Qualifying & Challenging is pushing and pulling. I think all good Qualifying & Challenging uses pushing and pulling.

First off, what do I mean by pushing and pulling ?

To push is to push the girl away from you

To pull is to pull the girl into you.

So, for example, when I say, “You seem like you might be adventurous” I am pulling her in. And when I say, “Are you ? Because I am only friends with adventurous people,” I am pushing her away. And when I say, “Good, then we can be friends,” I am pulling her in. And when I say, “But when we hang out I am not going to take you to any of my cool places yet, because I do not know how adventurous you really are,” I am pushing her away.

In other words, when she meets my qualifications I pull her in. And then I push her away with higher qualifications.

EVing (Eliciting Values):

A couple years ago, I use to do that a lot. But now I know that this is really just a sophisticated form of supplication. I mean, it is coming from the wrong frame: you are giving her the opportunity to screen you.

Qualifying:

Now I do just the opposite: I tell them what I want, and if they say they possess my values, then I challenge the hell out of them to see if they are being honest with me.

Reframing Shit Tests Into Challenges:

When I say, “shit test,” I mean anything that interferes with or is not conducive with either the frame I have set or the intended direction in which I am taking the interaction. Put in other words, anytime she attempts to reset, interrupt, or supersede the frame I have set in a negative way, I am being shit tested.

So, when a girl throws shit tests at us, such as, “Do you do this on all the ladies ?” and “How old are you ?” how do we reframe them into challenges ? One thing to keep in mind is that you never want to respond to a shit test directly. Now, that is not to say, you want be the sort of guy that never addresses a woman's questions in direct way. What I am saying is that you never want to address a shit test at the same logical level or within the shit test's frame (remember: a “shit test” is an attempt to negatively change the frame we are trying to set.) Why ? Because this reinforces and acknowledges their frame.

So how do we handle shit tests ? What I like to do is reframe the meaning of their shit tests. When they shit test me, I turn it around by accusing them of subscribing to values or having attributes that are undesirable. Then I challenge them to refute my accusation. This works fucking great.

Let me give you two examples of this from real life (as you will read in the field reports below, these examples are situations that have actually occurred.)

Suppose that a guy approaches a confident, hot girl who is up for a challenge and does not like rejection. Now suppose the guy runs some routines on her. Suppose the girl then says to him, “Nice stuff: how many other girls have you done this to ?” An AFC would try to address the question within the same frame or at the same logical level. Huge mistake ! Instead, say something like this: “No, I only do this on girls who seem adventurous because I am only friends with adventurous people. And you seemed adventurous. But maybe you're not, maybe I was wrong about you. If that is the case, then this relationship will never work out.”

Now often times they will then tell me how adventurous they are. Now who is qualifying whom ? Who is controlling the frame ?

Lets look at one more example. This is another one that has happened to me in real life. There is a certain way girls ask, “How old are you ?” that means they are about to shit test you (whether it be that you are supposedly too young or too old for them.) So I tell them how old I am and then ask them. Then I say, “Well, you are like ninety years old in girl years…so, this relationship will never work out, you're just too old for me. And woman like yourself probably couldn't keep up with a young stallion like sexy me.” If they are really hot, I will add, “You remind me of my grandmother who is one adventurous old hag, so, she is cool…are you adventurous ? Good, then you have permission to hang out with her. I think the two of you are going to be the best of friends…Aw, you are so cute.”

I have never gotten a bad reaction from this. This works on so many levels. One is that when you say, “You are too old for me,” you are now qualifying them, not the other way around. Another thing you are doing is taking their stupid judgmental chick logic and applying it back to them in an even more absurd and humorous way ... very powerful indeed.

Screening Chicks Without Slamming the Door: The goal is to screen out bad behaviors, not them. You always want to leave enough room for them to change their behavior (we have to be careful here, because the goal is still to set the frame that you are screening them for, and anything that falls short of your standards is not tolerated.)

Let's Look at an example:

What are my values ?

Adventurous, spontaneous, strong, up for a challenge, bisexual, good wit (sarcasm), sophistication, optimism, not affraid to take chances, still has a little girl quality about her.

What are my anti-values ?

Drama, neediness, indecisiveness, flakiness.

So, anytime a girl displays one of my values, she is tentatively qualified. And anytime she either fails to display one, or displays one of my anti-values, she is temporarily disqualified. But I almost never slam the door on them completely. If we make plans to do something crazy and she chickens out (I like this better than flake because it implies a very different message) I will tell her something like this: “You know, I thought you were a cool girl who was adventurous and didn't flake. But maybe I misjudged you, maybe I was wrong about you, etc.”

Alrighty then ... we get the general idea: bust on them, but always leave enough room for them to improve. So if you are talking to some chick, and she does something that is one of your AVs(anti-values), say: “I don't think this relationship is going to work out because you are like this and I prefer that.”

And then feel free to walk away. However, if later in the night she does something to prove to you that she does not have one of your anti-values (or that she has one of your values that you thought she did not have) then by all means, do not slam the door in her face. This is how the game is played boys.

Below I have provided three field reports as examples of how this is done. Consider the above to be a Cliff Notes version of the field reports I have provided below.

Wednesday night, December 18:

A buddy and I decide to go out and do some serious sarging. We meet at a bar at around ten. We blow up a couple of sets and then take off.

Next, we decide to go to the Standard Lounge (this is a very trendy, difficult-to-get-into Hollywood lounge.) Surprisingly, they let us right in. So we walk inside and it is fucking unbelievable: Hef is there with all his girlfriends, and there are more 10s per square inch than any club or lounge I have been to in a long time. My wing and I jump into a great set with a solid nine and she is really digging me. Her friend tries to drag her away from me, but she doesn't want to leave me ... huge IOI. Did I number close her ? No, I am a big wuss.

So after this, I am in a bad mood. Meanwhile, my buddy is chatting up this very cute girl with pigtails (we will call her HBPigtails.) I can tell by this girl's body language that she is really playful and adventurous. So, I tell my friend that it is so on and that he should kiss her. He tries to kiss her, she kisses him back but then pulls away after a few seconds. So, I jump in by spouting, “Hey woman, you better get your hands off my man.” “Are you two together ?” she replies. “Yes,” I say.

The three of us start dancing: me in the front, my buddy from behind, and her sandwiched in the middle. After dancing for a while, I whisper in her ear: You seem like fun, do you cook and clean ? “Yes…” she says. And I ask, “What dish do you cook the best ?” She names some Indian dish (BTW, she is a white girl, not Indian). I tell her that I love Indian food, and that since she seems cool she has permission to come over one evening and cook my boyfriend and I Indian food, but that she shouldn't get any funny ideas: I mean just because she is a good cook does not mean we are going to turn straight for her or anything. Note: she knows we are not really gay, considering we had been fondling her while dancing. She laughs.

Then I tell her that she might be a good candidate for the third wheel in our relationship…but not to hold her breath, because we have a lot of other people lined up for the job. Note: I am doing seductive role playing (or what Kooper calls “Setting cocky funny frames.”) This sets a context for me to embed some pretty strong frames. Also, since it is “role playing” and not real, it makes it okay to be sexual. Remember: all women want to be sexual, but due to social conditioning, they often times need an excuse. Role-playing is a useful way to evoke a chick's sexuality. More giggles.

Then I say, “One thing I don't tolerate is drama, and you seem like you might be drama honey, so, I am not sure you are going to make the cut.” She says, “I am not drama. People who are 'drama' are fake and I am real.” I continue her thought by saying, “And people who are real can really live life: they live in the moment and are spontaneous.” She agrees. So, I say to her in an enthusiastic little boy tone: “Hey, what do you say we get out of here, and go to a gay bar dancing.” (Remember: I am still maintaining the role playing theme “My boyfriend and I are looking for a third wheel in our relationship.”)

She is a little hesitant but likes the idea. She says that she has to tell her friends she is leaving before she leaves with us. One thing I should mention: at this point I had already gotten permission from my wing to hit on this girl. The plan was to take her back to a place and fuck her. So we find one of her friends and he asks us how we know each other. I tell him that we are actually brother and sister. Then I start fondling her and telling him that the relationship is a bit incestuous. She plays along and puts her hand on my ass (notice that I am using another seduction role playing theme to get physical with her.)

She says she has to use the bathroom but wants to make sure we don't leave without her. So she leaves her purse with me. When she comes back, she tells me that she wants to take her own car and follow us to the club. So I ask her where she is parked. After she tells me, I tell her that her car is parked closer than my friend's car and that it would make sense for her to drive us to his car. She agrees, we jump in her car, I take shotgun of course, and off we go to my friend's car. When we get to the area where my friend parked his car, we don't see his car. So he tells us that he is going to go look for it. So, he hops out of her car to go look for his car. So I begin to escalate the situation. We start making out. She is really into it and now I know it's so on.

My friend comes back to inform us that his car has been towed. Now he is about to suggest that she take us to my car so he and I can go to the towing place. But before he can say this, I say, “Fuck: he and I came in the same car.” She asks us what we want to do. I tell her that the tow place is open twenty-four hours, and we shouldn't let this be a damper on our evening. We should go to the club and have a great time (now I am really BSing her because there is no club open at this time.) My friend does not realize this and insists on us taking him to his car. So we take him to the tow place, drop him off and off we go to the supposed club.

Now when we get to the club, it is closed ... what a shocker ! She looks really disappointed. Thus, I suggest we go back to my place for some drinking. She's down. On the way to my house I am joking with her. Then I share my values with her. She acquiesces to them all. I tell her: honey, you lucked out, because if you were missing even one of those things I was going to break up with you (said very playfully, of course). She playfully punches me and says, “Fucker.” I love when chicks do this because it means: you win and they hate ya but they love ya.

We stop at a gas station and I tell her that I am thirsty, so she buys me bottled water. Then I call Style on her cell. Style talks to her and tells me she sounds bubbly.

When we get to my house, I show her around and then we start play fighting, in which she proceeds to get on top of me. We start making out and then I do the one hand bra snap. She says, “Have you done this to like a hundred women or something ?” I say, “Nope, I have only done this to a thousand.” ( Guys, when girls accuse you of player behavior, don't squirm. Instead, escalate it.)

We mess around a little more and then I suggest that we go skinny dipping in my Jacuzzi (I have great a Jacuzzi that is on top of this deck that overlooks the whole valley.) However, when we go up to the Jacuzzi, there is no water in it. Doesn't matter, she is very enthralled with the stars. So I make up some bullshit about the stars representing certain Greek gods. She loves it. We start making out again. And then she starts giving me head. But it is so fucking cold that I suggest we go inside. (Also this is a take-away of sorts.)

We go inside and she goes to use the bathroom. She is gone for a really long time. Note: she is probably looking through my shit: typical chick behavior. When she comes back I say, “You're not some Al-Qaeda member trying to plant a bomb in my house, are you ?” “Asshole,” she says, “I would have fucked you.” (Guys, this is a shit test.) So I say, “What makes you think I want to sleep with you yet ?” She says, “What ? !” And I say, “I think you need to change the battery on your miracle ear.” This gets big laughs.

We watch TV for a while. Then out of nowhere I turn off the TV. She asks: “Why are you turning off the TV ?” “Well,” I say, “Because I am going to bed.”

Next she follows me into the bedroom and we go to bed. Yea right ! But seriously guys: for the first hour I don't touch. During this hour she is trying to touch me—trying to get me turned on ... and I am just ignoring her. Thus she asks, “What's wrong ?” So I tell her: “It's not you, it's me; I'm tired.”

Well, finally I do give in. I start by cuddling and smelling her. She starts getting really worked up. I start doing other types of foreplay, but refrain from fucking her at this moment. I continue this until she is begging me to put it inside her—so elapsed foreplay time is about forty-five minutes. Then I start fucking her really hard for a long time ... sex was really good.

In the morning I have her take me back to my car, which was still on Sunset.

Saturday, December 20th:

Some friends of mine invite me to go to Las Palmas, a trendy LA nightclub. I decide to meet them at the club. I show up to the club solo. Since I am there after ten, the line to get in is horrendous. And to make matters worse, they are only letting girls in. At this point I am seriously thinking about leaving ... I have no patience for bullshit. Then one of the club promoters that I know shows up and tells the bouncer to let me in. The bouncer says he will let me inside in just one second. But he doesn't ... fucking bastard.

So, I start flirting with the woman in charge of the guest list. I tell her that I am solo and all of my friends are inside and that the promoter told the bouncer to let me in, but he didn't. She gives the bouncer shit for this and he lets me in. Next, I find my friends on the patio, one of whom looks like an albino Gary Coleman (BTW, he is the genesis of the albino Gary Coleman pick up line.) They are with two girls ... both very hot indeed. But one of the girls drank too much and is sick, so, the girls decide to go home.

My friends are pissed because they spent a lot of money on these girls. So, I suggest we go pick up new girls. Next, one of my friends hits the dance floor; while the albino Gary Coleman guy and I hit the patio. I start opening sets, and I am really on fire. During one of my sets, my target cuts me off to talk to her friend. So I punish her by talking to the girl behind her (This ends up being my new target.)

I notice she has a ring on her middle finger. So, I open with the ring routine. I ask her, “Why do you wear your ring on that finger ?” She says, “I don't know; it just fits, why ?” So I tell her that according to the Greeks, she is making a psychological statement about herself. She asks me what it means. So, I take her hand and start rubbing her middle finger. I look at her hand, then at her, and then I cut her off by telling her, “Hold on: I need to talk to my friend for a second.” While I am talking to my friend, she is waiting there like a little eager puppy dog.

Still holding onto her hand, I turn back to her and ask, “Where were we ?” She says, “You were telling me that wearing a ring on this finger means something about me.” “That's right,” I say, “Well the Greeks believed that the middle finger was the ring of Dionysus. And Dionysus was the God of chaos. They also believed that it was the ring of Apollo who was the God of order. So, the middle finger means that you are the sort of person that, when something comes along that you really want, your emotions take over, but before you go for it, you have to find all your own reasons.”

She seems not to buy it at first. So, I say to her, “If this isn't true about you, then, honey, you need to put it on another finger.” She says, “No, no…actually you're dead on: I am very much so that way.” She asks me about another finger that she has a ring on and I tell her that the Greeks believed that wearing a ring on that finger is a sign of bisexuality. And I ask her if she likes guys or girls more. She admits to liking girls but says that she likes men more. And I say, “Exactly, you like girls but every once in a while you need some deep dicking.” (Ballsy, yes, but I have never been slapped from saying this.) She laughs and agrees.

Then I turn my back on her and talk to my friend for just long enough, but not so long that she gets up and walks away. When I turn back around her arms are crossed. I say to her, "Your arms are crossed, are you cold." She says, “No,” and then proceeds to uncross her arms. I say, “Much better, that was unacceptable, but I am not mad at you…I mean crossing your arms is bad etiquette, but you do it because…what was your relationship with your dad ?” She says, “Um,” and I say, “It was tumultuous, wasn't it ?” She says “Yes,” and I say, “I can look at your eyes see that you are still a little girl; there is a side to you that is very adventurous. But sometimes, since you were hurt in the past, you don't let it out. And the times that you were most happy in life were when you could trust the moment and really enjoy yourself. But sometimes that's hard for you to do. And I am only friends with people who are adventurous, so, I don't know if your level of adventurism is up to mine. So I don't know if this relationship will work out.” Then I turn my head (I do this very dramatically, yet playfully.)

She hits me on the arm with a smile on her face and says, “Stop.” (This is a huge IOI.) She then proceeds to ask me about some after hours club. I tell her that it must not be that cool. She asks, “Why ?” and I tell her “Because I have never heard of it.” She says that it is a fetish club, and proceeds to show me her whip. I tell her that I think she and I would probably make a bad couple because we are both dominant lovers and that I am not sure if she is woman enough to be with a man as strong as me. She tells me that most men can't handle her. And I tell her that most women can't handle me: they fall in love and then become needy. And I don't tolerate women who are needy.

She tells me that she is not needy (who is jumping through who's hoops now ? !) I tell her that I don't go to fetish clubs but that I am into swinger clubs (I had an intuition that this would be good.) Her eyes light up and she tells me that she is just getting into the scene (bingo.) We talk extensively about it (I am really BSing because I know next to nothing about the scene.) Then I tell her: “My girlfriend and I are looking for a playmate, are you game ?” She says: “Maybe.” I tell her that I have to get back to my friends, but that if she wants to play, she should write down her number. She says, “Yes, I do want to play,” and proceeds to write down her number.

Then I go into something similar to Ross' SRT. She tells me to stop because I am making her think about all sorts of things and that she hasn't been fucked really hard in a long time. I use some negation on her. Then she says that I am being very aggressive and forward. I say, “Yes, I am very aggressive and forward, and I don't know if you are woman enough to handle me.” She just looks at me like a deer in headlights. Then I ask her where the craziest place she has ever has sex was. She tells me about being pounded by some guy at a swingers' party while a crowd of people watched. Then she proceeds to tell me that her ex-lover was embarrassed to whip out his cock in front of other people (shit test.) Then she asks me where the craziest place I ever had sex was. I go into a story about how my ex girlfriend and I got on stage and fucked at a sex show while traveling in a foreign country (this story was inspired by Style ... very money indeed.)

Then I ask, “On a scale of 1-10 how good of a kisser are you ?” She says a ten. I say, “Let's find out.” I lean over and we start making out. A little bit too much tongue for my taste, but she was trainable. Then I say to her in a little boy tone, “What do you say we go find a girl and bring her home with us ?” She says, “Yes.”

Now at this point I wanted to cry tears of joy: was this really happening to me ? ! But I kept my cool and acted like this was a normal everyday thing for me.

We then attempt to pick up some girls: I try and hook her up with some of the girls I had sarged earlier in the night, and we try and pick up some new ones as well. But none end up being sure deals, and the club is closing. So, I tell her we should go to a strip club to pick up girls. She is down but, tells me that she has to find out if her friends want to go as well. Meanwhile, one of the girls I had sarged earlier finds me. I start screening and challenging her too. Right before I kiss her, my bi girl finds me and tells me that her friends are down to go to a strip club. I meet her friends. They are cool and we all get along (BTW, they all turned out to be swingers.)

So the first club I take them to ends up being closed. I am thinking: fuck fuck and fuck. I then suggest that we go to another club down the street called The Body Shop. At first her friends bitch about the twenty-dollar cover, but I successfully persuade them all to go inside.

For the first hour she and I are making out and I manage to take her in the back and finger her. She is telling me how she wants to be man handled and fucked really hard ... guys I was considering taking her out of the club at this point and fucking her in my car. Then I tell her that we only have an hour and we need to get a girl. She is down but does not know what to do. So I tell her, “Have you ever picked a girl up in a bar ?” She says, “Yes,” and I say, “Well it is really the same thing.”

This works great. She ends up making out with this Hispanic stripper. The Hispanic stripper is down to come back, but she wants to bring her boyfriend to watch. I am not down with this ... way too weird for me. We get some bites from some of the other girls, but none end up coming back on this night.

She and her friend wanted to come to my house. She wanted to fuck me in front of her guy friends, one of whom was very jealous of me. At this point I told them that I was tired and opted to call it a night. A couple days later I realized that I had managed to lose her number (damn, I suck in regards to not losing numbers.)

Saturday, January 4:

My albino Gary Coleman friend invites a friend of mine and I to Las Palmas. When we show up, my GC friend informs me that my bi girl is here. Furthermore, he tells me that she was telling him how much fun she had picking up other girls with me. And that she was mad that I never called her.

I find her and she is with the same group of people she was with the week before, plus one of her lovers, a dominant bi fem. Later in the night, one of the swinger guys and I are sitting in the patio area when all of the sudden the dominant bi fem starts giving us a lap dance. He starts spanking her, and then I start spanking her. She then lifts up her skirt, revealing her panties. Then she moves her panties out of the way revealing her pussy while she was being spanked (I have to admit that I was getting a bit aroused, yet I had a feeling that she was trouble.)

Next, she starts giving my bi girl a lap dance, and the next thing I know, the two girls are making out. They want to do a threesome, but I am not down for two reasons: one is that I sense the dom could cause problems, and two, is that Rick told me that it is dangerous to do a threesome with girls you have not already fucked solo. Rick told me that this is a good way to get excluded from the threesome.

When I get home, there are messages from her saying that she and her bi dom fem friend want to come over. But I do not call her back. I need to fuck her solo first.

New Year''s Eve:

A couple of friends and I decide to go to Vegas and hang out with Rick for New Years ... Vegas baby Vegas. We go to the Palms and start our night off sarging at a lounge called “#9.” We warm up on several sets and then adjourn over to club “Rain.” I do several sets and then I find this very hot HB ... tall blonde with a very pretty face and huge fake tits ... just my type ... yeah baby yeah.

We start talking and then I say to her, “You know what: You are an observer.” “What do you mean, I am an observer ?” she asks. “Well,” I say, “You like to observe people…you are a people watcher, an eavesdropper.” She kinda chuckles and says, “Yeah I am a people watcher: I enjoy watching how other people interact.” And I say, “The thing is this, there are two types of people: people who are observers, like yourself, and people who live in the moment…and I bet when you are truly having fun, you can stop observing and be in the moment completely.”

She kinda of thinks about it and then says, “You are very good at reading people, did you study psychology ?” “Nope, just learned my wisdom from eating a lot of fortune cookies as a kid. They taught me everything I know.” She laughs. Next I tell her that she is very sarcastic, and I know this because I am sarcastic too…and that most people can't hang with her sarcasm but that a person who matches her wit is the biggest turn on for her in the world. She really eats this up, which is great because I do outmatch her wit.

Then I tell her that she is a visual learner. She asks me how I know. I give her an explanation and she agrees. Then I tell her that most visual learners have great imaginations. She says, “Yes, I have a great imagination.” So I tell her, lets find out how good your imagination is. I ask her to describe her ideal vacation spot. Then I start doing the cube on her. She asks me, “Do you do this to every girl ?” “No,” I say, “Only girls who seem adventurous and spontaneous…but I could be wrong: maybe you are neither adventurous nor spontaneous. And if that is the case, then we could never be friends and I will be forced to break up with you right now, because I am only friends with people who are adventurous and spontaneous…and I am not sure you can handle me.”

She rebuts, “Oh I am very adventurous and spontaneous, and I am not sure you can handle me…how old are you anyways ?” (Guys, she is giving me a huge shit test.) I tell her how old I am and then I ask her. She tells me thirty-one. So I tell her that this relationship would never work because she is way to old for me and she could never keep up with me. She tells me that it doesn't really matter because she does not look thirty-one (which was true: she not only was very hot but looked like she was in her mid twenties.) And then she tells me that actually I am the old one in the relationship because I am past my sexual prime, while she is in her sexual prime (God I love a witty woman.)

Then I accuse her of being a big old perve for always having sex on her mind. I say to her: “I was trying to have an intellectual conversation, but you have to turn everything into sex ... what a sinner ... you are going to burn in hell.” Then we start talking about the craziest places we ever had sex. She tells me that she had sex on a rooftop once. I tell her my variant of Style's “fucked my girlfriend at a sex show in a foreign country” story. She thinks the story is very money indeed.

I go into something similar to Ross' SRT. As I am doing this, I ask her if she likes guys or girls more. She says, “I like guys more, but girls can work.” I say, “Good because I am only friends with girls who know they are bisexual, so for your sake, it's a good thing you said that.” Then I ask her on a scale of 1-10 how good of a kisser she is ? She says, “Ten.” So, I kiss her. We make out for a while. Then I say in a little boy tone, “What do you say we find a hot girl and bring her home with us ?” She says, “Yeah, that sounds like fun.” So then I take her to the bar outside to # close her (I wouldn't want to let this one get loose, she could be useful.)

As we are walking outside, I have her lock elbows with me (I learned this from Mystery when he was in LA.) This is outstanding because it assumes that we are together. We exchange numbers. Then I take her to one of the numerous tented booths outside. Since they are somewhat private, they are excellent for molesting. So I take her in one of the booths and molest her for a while. I should have fucked her in the booth ... my bad.

So I suggest that we go back inside to pick up girls. We go inside. I go to kiss her and she pulls back to tease me a little. So I say, “You are the sort of person who feels comfortable being in control. I bet you are in control of your life and that you usually like to be in control with men. But the thing is this: maybe, you are confident enough in yourself that when you meet a guy that is strong enough to be in control of you, you can allow yourself to get really turned on; maybe not. I am a dominant male and I don't know if you are woman enough, adventurous enough, to let yourself be in the moment and give up control. But if you're not who I thought you were, that's OK, we can be friends.”

At this point she starts kissing me passionately. It was getting late, and I hadn't seen Caliboy, Morpheus, or Rick (and his driver) in hours. So, I said, “Wait here,” and I left her to go find the boys (huge mistake.) I come back a half hour later and she is gone, so I leave the club. I find Morpheus and Rick. I bitch about the situation to Rick and Rick gives me some great advice on how to handle it. My thought was that I shouldn't bang the bi girls until I get them into a threesome; I didn't want them to get use to having sex with me without another girl there. But Rick said that this could be a mistake because if you have not banged at least one of the girls, then you could get excluded from the threesome. So, according to Rick, what you want to do is this: Bang at least one of the girls by herself, so you have an emotional connection with (and dominance over) her.

He also said that I must be dominant the whole way through ... any sign of weakness will ensue in a bad situation. The good news is that she lives in LA. I have talked to her since the trip and she is very excited about going out to a strip club and picking other chicks with me. My plan though is to bang her solo first, and then get her and HBSwinger together for a threesome. Boys, this is how the game is really played.

(Commenting on the above, reposted from Mystery's Lounge with permission of the author.)

Pushing / pulling. Yes, it's best when incorporated into punishment / reward. But, according to behavioral theory, what works best is an inconsistent punishment / reward system. They are rewarded and punished most (but not all) of the time. So you don't have to be too strict about this. But, generally, I am always throughout the PU trying to push / pull. Telling her to go away and stop pestering me, then pulling her back in and asking where she's going. Or telling her she reminds me of one of my sisters, and then making a GM style comment. Or, like Badboy and Zan, doing things where you qualify and then disqualify her. Things like making a relationship, then saying it's not working out. Get engaged, then break up. This is so key. And it occurs on a subtle level, too. Suddenly looking over her shoulder when she's talking, as if she's boring you. Leaning back. Stopping the kino. These things ... push-pull ... are in my mind an element that separates the good from the great. They really for some reason fire the attraction signals.

Someone on Cliff's List mentioned David Lieberman''s book Get Anyone to do Anything and Never Feel Powerless Again. I'd like to consider a framework that he claims people use to make decisions as it is applied to seduction.

Now before we start, it's important to note that at the first glance this framework looks analytical, and we all know that women (and some men) make decisions based on emotions and then use logic to justify them. But every time I try to capture her imagination and lead the conversation I find that a framework could be useful. The idea is to lead her through all stages of this decision making process engaging her emotions. In my opinion this will powerfully put her in the right state even if she is one of the rare female logical thinkers. But this is just an idea, and I will field test this and report the results. But input is appreciated from bros with experience.

Let's take a look at it step by step.

1. Narrow a Person's Options to Avoid Deliberation. Here she has a choice ... to go home to her ordinary and boring reality or find out things about herself that will “take her breath away.” (Thank you Svengali.) Point that out in a matter-of-fact way. It is important to make sure she decides and you just gently lead her to do so. Again, you need to become an Authority first. See Ross and others as to how to do this.

2. Give a Deadline to Take Action. This creates a sense of urgency and urge to gain what is rare. Again this can be done in many ways: patterns, powerful takeaways, etc.

3. Engage the Law of Consistency by Having Her Commit to Smaller Requests. Here kino leading to a massive make out session will go a long way IMHO. Or you can challenge her on a variety of fronts, ego, guilt, fear of loss, etc. Comments on this one ? Other ways to enact this law ?

4. Use Your Words and Actions to Enact the Law of Expectation. Here is where confidence and a calm sense of power comes in really handy. A simple “Let's go” may be all it takes if enough rapport is created and expectations are set. This is the execution part, and an execution must be swift. By delivering a powerful execution, you are saving yourself time in case she's an attention whore, belongs to a sex hate league, etc. If on the other hand she's ready to go horizontal, you're setting things in motion as you should at this point. I think Mr Sex4uNYC once said that you only should be taking home a girl who knows what she's going for.

5. Reduce What You Want Her to do to Simple Steps. In other words show her that this is not complicated.. I don't know if this law applies here ... comments on this one ?

6. Offer an Additional Benefit for Taking Action now. Again I don't know if this applies here, since expectations must already be set by this stage as outlined in # 1 and then you simply act on it.

7. Probably the most important of all these rules is there must be a rapport between the two of you and you have to be able to gauge it. To me, a simple way to measure it is to observe how easily / willingly she follows your orders / requests (“Let's go to another room / place” or “Wait for me, I'll be right back”) or kino , though some chicks may not be as kinesthetic as others ... comments on this one ? At first this may seem like too much and too complicated, but if you actually think about this structure it starts to make internal sense.

26: (Thinking: What ? Fuck. I want to watch a movie at your house so I can try to have sex with you.) We walk to my car. I hold her hand on the way.

Halbmike: It sounds like you coulda said I want to get a movie and go to your house so that we can pretend to watch the movie while sexual tension builds until we start making out like animals in heat.

26: Tell her she can't sit where she wants ?

Halbmike: Tell her to sit on your lap or share the spot with you.

MB: I could not agree more with this line of thinking. I always try to learn as much as I can about a female and look for “ins,” so to speak. I will either wait for her to make a comment regarding her sexual nature and then steer the conversation that way, or make a very light one myself and look to see how she reacts. If negative, I do not push, but rather wait until later or reassess my approach.

Ross: Right. Prime the pump if need be to get her talking, but use her responses to steer her where you want her to go.

MB: I recently began articulating a lot more of what I want from women in a general sense and virtually all women seek to meet the standard that you put forth. If you say you want a passionate woman then that is what she will give you because you have elevated yourself to a high level by defining your needs and expectations. Women are truly masters of telling us what they want and hence I realized that by doing so they challenge us to do the same.

Ross: Well put. set a lead with your actions and in what you say.

Rio: Whenever a chick tells you her problems, she is really saying "Wow, he'll put up with all my bullshit. He must be a desperate loser-man with no standards for women he hangs out with, and since he has nothing better to do, I'll take advantage of it and turn him into a friend !"

MB: Not always but if he does not make his needs known he will fall into whatever role she wants him to fall into and it is usually the lowest denominator. To me if you simply hope that a woman will give you what you want by virtue of being around her, you better hope again. If you do not make your needs known to her she will assume you want nothing and give you what she assumes you want ... nothing.

Ross: Right. Make your needs known and your needs primary.

MB: I do not see that great connection between having a woman tell you her problems and her fucking you. Often after a high level session of disclosure and your understanding of her will a woman feel more connected to you. In fact in my experience women that have shared their problems with me I actually ended up fucking faster than ones that did not.

Ross: Provided you let them know what you want and need, I agree. I'm talking about a special kind of woman; the histrionic personality type who lives for and loves her drama. Her emotions are ultimately the only thing that is real in the world. They are female narcissists, but they are narcissistically focused on their own internal drama and painful emotion as opposed to their appearance or other things you'd more likely expect.

MB: Wake up call. Women want sex as much as we do, but they need to feel a little more accepted than we do before they give it up.

Ross: Right. I agree. Some actually need to feel rejected first ... these are the sick ones that Rio is referring to.

MB: Women tend to have a defined image of us in their head, which is usually not a very high one and it is up to us to let them know what we want and what we are all about so that they do not falsely and incorrectly presume and assume things that are not true. It is up to us to let her know what we are all about and what we want, even if it is just sex. BUT once they do know what we want, they begin to feel free and easy to offer us whatever it is that we seek.

Ross: Or to assess if they want to or even can give it. I agree. Very well said. Excellent points and post.

Rio: About romance ... my slick factor increased when I viewed her as LTR material. I read once from David Shade that women find it romantic when they have to try and win a man's heart, and that is what they find romantic ... when they finally win the heart of a man who doesn't give a shit about them !

MB: Here I have to say a flat out no. It is perverse to assume that anyone would want to be with another person that does not care about them. Women that try to win a man's heart are ones what are aware of what he wants from life, women, and relationships. Women that know this try to meet his standard and be accepted by him and the only way she will know what you want is when you tell her, but you do not have to give a shit about them when in fact it can be quite counter productive.

Ross: Rio is describing a type of pathology that fits in with a specific personality type / disorder: look up histrionic personality disorder.

I recently made a life changing discovery. Over the weekend I read Larry King's How to Talk to Anyone About Anything Under All Circumstances or something like that. In the book he talks about the owner of the Washington Redskins, a billionaire, who did not succeed until he learned how not to over sell. He makes his point and then stops. I realized that with some women I find highly appealing, I tend to talk excessively, offer my extended opinions and views and tell protracted stories all in an effort to try to impress a woman. I realized that by trying to impress a woman, I am implying she is not impressed and hence she feels that I am trying too hard. Inevitably I would lose them. In times when I said little but stayed engaged, my success rate was much higher.

Now I've resolved not to say more than two sentences in a conversation before I allow her to respond, and no more than five when telling a story. When I want to sleep with a woman I say “I would like to make love to you” or “Come back to my place” and then stop, allow her to digest the invite and not say anything until she responds. Armed with this power I picked up a hot little 23 year old from a clothing store who agreed to have a drink with me before I finished asking her and telling her I would like to get to know her better.

In some ways less is more. It keeps women engaged, allows them to talk and makes them feel part of the interaction as well as making you look stronger, more self assured, confident, and not desperate. Abe Lincoln was famous for this approach.

26's post on getting his new FB was hysterical. Much thanks to Style for getting this into wide circulation. For 26 and a lot of the younger guys on this list, I sincerely think it would be a smart idea to check out one of my videos like “New Sex Now” or my book “9 Free Secrets of New Sensual Power” so that when you put all this powerful seduction technology to use and finally do end up naked with a chick, you have some knowledge and skills to work with so you won't end up limp or not able to shoot a load like 26.

A lot of guys' difficulty in shooting has to do with not wanting to let down their guard, not wanting to be intimate, not wanting her to think you're anything less than a sexual superman. Well, as David would say, “Who cares what she thinks !” Personally, I would rather shoot it down her throat or all over her face any time rather than inside her vag during sex. (And BTW, 26, yes it is safe to keep using the same condom after you get soft and then get hard again, as long as it hasn't ripped.)

I think what 26 ended up doing ... jacking while she sucked his balls ... was a first-class improvisation, and he should be proud of his work here. Just try spunking on her face next time and you'll feel a lot better than if you gotta wipe it off your six-pack. But you could make her lick it off, and she'd probably get turned on by how you control and dominate her ... if you could make her do it. All in all, that post had me laughing out loud and glued to every word.

Cliff's Comments: After reading 26's comments, it is clear that some guys out there could use some good, down to earth, specific instruction in the bedroom. I have seen some of Arte's products and his video and his new book and there is some very good information in there along those lines.

I started out with hypnotic seduction because life has treated me badly with regard to dating. I've had my ass whupped by both better looking and worse looking boys, richer and poorer boys, etc., etc. I was searching for a “pattern” or a formula that would solve my problems with women. What made women tick ? Yes, I am not ashamed to admit it, I used to be a real, sore loser where the opposite sex was involved. Clueless. And unabashedly unashamed, I can also claim that I found the key into women's minds, and have developed the skill to seduce women with precision and control previously unattainable with the conventional logic that the world would feed you. No small thanks to Jeffries Cunningham, Cleveland, Bandler, et al. Maybe at the time I was getting back at the female of the species, and gorged on the affection, love and sex that was previously made so unavailable to me. Like a kid in a candy store with a hundred dollar bill. It was such a welcome change to turn the tables, to have women begging to be with you rather than the other way around. To go from abject scarcity to overwhelming plenty. That feeling of power, control and eventual abundance really felt good. To tell you honestly, that's all history now. I pushed the envelope, changed my situation,and I got there, or at least where I wanted to be, and am now content and settled. Maybe I'm getting old. But no doubt, others are still embarking on that journey, and perhaps they should, until they finally make peace with themselves.

The key is Ross's and Mark's stuff. Therefore, the key has been with you all along.

To learn it, chunk a small part at a time. Just like baking a cake, you might want to add in stuff one at a time and see how that makes a difference. Of course, up until you find the integrated whole that works for you, it will work sometime and not all the time. But my advice is sound, learn stuff one at a time. Learn embeds first. Then what to embed. Then how to link it and bind it. That's the first stage. Then on to ambiguities. Then to criteria / values elicitation. And so on and so forth until you get to the stuff like hyper-empiria, etc.

The advanced things will only make sense once you've gotten through the basics. Basically, it's just a matter of integration and application. Therefore practice, practice, practice. Trust me ... as you go, some of the stuff will make sense to you. It ain't wired in until you go out and actually do it on women.

(Reposted from Mystery's Lounge with permission of the author.)

I found my gimmick tonight. It was my 22nd birthday. My roommate bought me a walking cane to signify my age. What did I do ? I made it my pimping cane. I went out with a girl on each arm. And do you know the shit I got away with as a “pimp ?” I walked right up to the hottest girls at the parties, tapped them with my cane and said, “Let me see those goods.” If they said “What the fuck ?” or showed any disrespect, I'd pound my cane to the floor. “Shut the fuck up ! Do you know who your fuckin' talkin to ? Now lets start over !”

I used the pimp documentary (American Pimp) and talked about how we go down to LA to fight over whose hoes are owned by whom, and how we trade hoes and look for talent. Girls loved that shit. This is definitely going to be a new style of mine every now and then. I loved it !

Alright, I thought I'd go into some more detail on how the night actually went. First I had friends who were over for my birthday ... all HB 8's and up pretending to be my hoes. This really gave me some credibility. What I'm trying to figure out is how I can do this again when it is not my birthday, and I don't have automatic hoes. I'm thinking a routine like this: walk up to girls I don't know and say, “How would you like to be my hoes for awhile ? I'll treat you real good. (big smile)”

If they play along with it, the next groups are easy, as I'll go into exactly what I did when I was out. Snowballing from your original group is a fucking breeze.

The other idea I can think of is asking the girls to play along with your gimmick. Let them know it's just for fun and you want to see how people react.

The Routines: The first routine I used involved going up to guys and asking them how much they would pay for my hoe on my right arm, and then compare that with the one on my left arm. The guy would say some price ... keep in mind, he's in a group set with girls there. If any girl says anything I tell her “Shut the fuck up. Who was I fucking talking to ? That's right. Wait your goddam turn,” pounding my cane to the floor. (Yes you need a pimp cane. It is a necessity. More than the outfit, and nearly as much as the attitude.)

No matter what price he says, you say “Not nearly enough, goddamn.” I usually followed that night with, “Oh well, it's ma fuckin' burthday, let the hoes decide. If they wanna fuck you, ma man, it's free game.”

Then I'd go into my butt slapping cane routine. I take my cane and say “time to test out the goods.” I would then slap girls on their behinds. Yes, girls I don't know. Especially the hottest girls in the club or the party. Usually I'd say “Naw, you don't got what it takes. What you got girl ?” If she tells me she doesn't want to be my hoe, or shows any disrespect, there is a zero tolerance policy. You must show the bitch, “You don't have a choice, girl. If I like the goods, I take the goods.”

Then I challenge them “Entertain me.” I make them entertain me. I tell them it's my birthday, and that I'm the youngest fucking white pimp around. I should be in the Guinness Book of World Records. Then I talk about either American Pimp, or Pimpin Ain't Easy (artsy doc as opposed to main stream American Pimp). Either way I talk about how they filmed me for it but I told them I don't want my hoes exposed. How I fight for them at pimp conventions. And I offer my girls only the best. But I always get what I want.

At this point you must transition to testing her to be one of your hoes. You personally test all your girls. This means you get to kiss her and whatever else she'll do in the frame you set her in. Remember, you are the one in power. I don't know any girls that stepped outta line. I seriously was so into the roll I would have slapped them with the cane. One girl said, “What if I run away ?” I told her. “Ah'd do this,” I flipped my cane upside down so the hook was on top and grabbed her by the leg and I seriously tripped her. She was so taken aback by that she didn't know what to do. “No one runs from this pimp daddy.”

Whether the girls actually believed me or not didn't matter because they all played into it. The last opener I would use was just slamming my cane into the middle of a circle and waiting for a girl to ask about it. I'd take my time then say, “Did I ask you to speak ? I'm a pimp.” If they laugh, then you again go hard on them. It's about the money, not the women. You can't help getting laid.

The really bad side affect of this is ... I want to go pimping again, because once you go pimp you never want to go back. Oh yeah, I forgot my favorite routine of the night. Asking girls to rate my hoes. Girls love stabbing at other girls. But they best not make fun of ma hoes !