Text book PU
Please let me take this moment to offer my condolences, sympathy & support to all those affected by the tragic events that went on in the U.S. this past week.
However you choose to use the knowledge of seduction that you hopefully are gaining from reading these emails and the various related writings and products mentioned here, seduction is always a way for two humans to become intimate and especially to share those intimacies and caring in trying times. At times like these we need ways to feel good together and connecting makes even more sense now than ever.
Mystery: MM
in-field workshop in NYC (dates Sept. 26 - 29) postponed. No new date set.
Text book PU
This is a tale of a text book pick up. It uses a strong opener, basic group theory, SS , games, equalizers and best of all really HOT chicks. Enough with the bull, here's the beef:
It starts with MTL- PUA and NightLight9 (that's little old me) sarging in a bar on Crescent in Montreal (I think it's called Newtown. And it has 3 levels all with terraces) with Clifford, Alex and Tristan. We're having a blast (I'll post more on general evening tactics in a different post). The bar is starting to get old when two angels float in.
The first words out of my mouth are "We have to sarge these two." MTL- PUA agrees and we watch surreptitiously as they cross the bar and come all the way around to the well to get a drink. They get their drink and I see them notice us (but this is peripheral, so they don't know and we haven't blown the 3 second rule - this place is packed and there is no way to get to them in 3 seconds anyway). MTL- PUA says "Let's go."
I say "Hold on. Let's see where they settle." (They just got a drink, so if we walk over there now and we get there right as they turn to leave, our opener is blown, dead before we even start). They walk to other side of the bar, so MTL- PUA and I sarge our way over, but there's nothing interesting to talk to, so we move pretty quickly.
We walk up. One is about 5'6" Brunette, with a great body who turns out to be a ballerina, the other is a blond at-least 5'11" and an art student. I swear this girl has the longest legs I've ever seen. They go all the way from her ass to the floor. MTL- PUA is about 6'2" I would guess, maybe taller, and well proportioned. This girl is a few inches shorter but her ass is literally about a foot further up in the air than his. This girl is leggy :-) Both these 19 year olds are very physically attractive and carry themselves with grace that can't help but attract attention. They stood out in a bar full of attractive women.
MTL- PUA and I are in a great playful and happy mood. We walk up and I do the 15 minute opener.
NL9 Are you girls really shy or something? HBs No. NL9 We've been here almost 15 minutes and you haven't even said hello.
Everyone laughs.
At this point MTL- PUA does a great special positioning move. When we walked up, we were obviously next to each other, with me a little to the front. MTL- PUA moves himself to the left to engage HBArt and starts to spin their group of two so we have instant separation.
PUA HB
PUA HB
Becomes
HB PUA
PUA HB
Now we are in a great position for continued convo where we are a group of 4, not 2 groups of two. He did this very quickly, before we had stopped laughing at the opener.
MTL- PUA puts his arm, fist out towards me at about 6 inches higher then my head (expecting me to finish the fist equivalent of a high 5, by doing the same). I do and as I do it, I say.
NL9 Wonder Twin powers activate! NL9 Form of an ice breaker! NL9 Shape of Hello! (for those of you not familiar, this is reference to a cartoon where this brother and sister had a magic power that when their rings met one became something to do with water and the other became an animal www.seanbaby.com/superfriends/wondertwinsb.htm#SUPERTHEATER )
Everyone was laughing again and because of MTL- PUA 's great movement, we're already in natural position to separate. From this point on, I'm just working with my chick and he with his.
Ask "So what brings you two out tonight?" Start talking with general fluff (with the goal of eliciting values) and she says she's studying ballet. Anytime you know a girl is studying ballet, you know a lot more about her.
NL9 You ballet dancers pretty boring. HBB What? NL9 Yeah.
She starts back pedaling about how she's taking some jazz classes and thinks she wants to do that instead. And how she's traveled.
NL9 I used to do some backup dancing for local bands equalizer is something that puts you on the same level as her, it is similar to neg in concept, delivery, and effect but it's based on commenting on you, not her> but I got sick of the prima donna in the band. What a pain in the ass they were. Then I decided to be doctor, but now I ended up an engineer." statement bragging, and it acted as an equalizer.
She had brought up traveling, so I pattern about two lines on traveling. Next I went with the actor question (credit Tristan to telling me about this, but I don't know where he got it from.)
NL9 I always think it's interesting. Who is your favorite actor, and why? HBB Kevin Spacey. NL9 You're kidding. Really? HBB Yeah I love him.
I patterned like crazy on how he is so amazing , how he connects with people, that's why he can become them and then he can express himself and that that is what makes him an artist, etc. At this point we have a ton of rapport and I am tilting my head to everything she says, she is completely tranced out.
Next I go into what I call my Hitting On Me Connection Pattern (I've used it 3 times and it's gotten great response each time).
NL9 "I was just talking to my friend about getting hit on. quotes, nearly as much a softener and segue as regular quotes, plus more transference and credit, I'm going to start using this a lot more. I said to her "I can always tell when someone is hitting on me because there's effort behind it. They are just trying too hard and it doesn't feel right . Now, you can meet someone who you do connect with . And sometimes when you meet someone and you connect it just feels natural, doesn't it? Like it was meant to be." And she said to me. "Yeah, it's like you can feel it and it's so powerful. It's almost like a beam of light going from me to you. right here" says, and it works)
She introduces herself and I shake hands but don't release. She doesn't try to let go.
I pattern on opportunity but, the people near us are constantly giving cheers really loudly and doing shots. It's a big group and they are breaking her trance a little. So when I get to the end about how you can seize opportunity right as they get loud, and I say "or you can just get drunk and make a fool of your self" and point at the group. Then I say, "but you can do what ever you want if you want to."
At this point, I figure it's time to get what I came here for, so I kiss her. She doesn't move in too much, but she doesn't pull away. It's a just a small kiss on the lips. Wait a few seconds and kiss her again. It's better this time, but still not really passionate. She is definitely into me, but still young and nervous.
NL9 Lets go upstairs to the terrace. HBB OK. later.
So I ignore her agreement I swear MTL- PUA and I are sharing a brain, because his chick goes, "Let's go upstairs." So I know he just asked her the same thing :-) MTL- PUA is obviously rocking too.
They head towards the front of the bar, where the stairs are. Oddly MTL- PUA and his HB head to the terrace there, but I take my chick upstairs as planned. When we get up there, she notices they aren't there. She isn't freaking out, but I can tell she's not comfortable.
HBB Where did my friend go? NL9 I don't know, but I'm sure that she's with MTL- PUA and he would never leave me. and used the exact same line - We are talking some serious psychic friends' network shit as we both just came up with this reframe on the fly>
I can tell she needs a GF check in, so I say "Let's go find them."
We go down stairs, and I take her right to them. She asks her friend if she is ok and she definitely is :-) So we go back upstairs.
On the roof I elicit values and talk about being a perfectionist perfectionist ballerina, no way.> Then I use a standard 'looking beyond beauty' pattern. I start the kino . In a few minutes we are macking hard core and we are pulled really tight to me and my leg is between hers. We make out for about an hour.
MTL- PUA and his chick appear and MTL- PUA starts dancing with his chick. I ask mine if she wants to dance too and I can tell she is nervous about performing in front me. She says "before when I said I knew the Meringue, I was lying"
should have patterned on honesty "You know when you were little and they told you that telling the truth after you did something wrong was good", but I was getting very tired and not thinking that clearly.
It's getting late, we take a few pics and MTL- PUA 's chick yells "Can we give your our email addresses?" We say sure, and I say let's get out of here. Everyone agrees and then girls go to the bathroom for a GF check in. MTL- PUA tells me his chick has a BF , but it's clear she doesn't like him, just likes having a BF . The bouncer comes to get us to leave and the girls walk out. They have big smiles, so I know we're in.
We leave the bar, much kino and start walking. We walk a while and decide to get a cab. I'm reached the point where my tiredness is preventing me from being very effective. On the cab ride, I'm just not on and because only 3 of us sit in the back seat MTL- PUA doesn't have good access to his chick.
We get there and we blow the fuck close because I'm so tired and I say, "Let's go up stairs," which would be fine with 22 year olds but young girls don't know how to manage this situation. My girl wants to go, but I can tell she's nervous about her friend's BF even though it's clear she wants to go up too. MTL- PUA 's chick says it's up to you, to my chick, who hesitates a few seconds teetering and says "Maybe we better not." Fuck, blew the close!!! They run over to the lobby desk and write down their names and numbers without us asking. We make out hard core for a few minutes in the lobby with other people in the room, and MTL- PUA is kissing his chick right there too, but it's clear they are going up without us.
The next morning I wake up like a bolt and all I can think is, "We can only come up for few minutes." "We can only come up for few minutes." "We can only come up for few minutes." Live and learn. MTL- PUA , feel free to correct as appropriate.
I want to thank Clifford, Dwayne, Tristan, Alex and MTL- PUA for the great time I had in Montreal. Hanging with you guys and seeing all your different styles, really helped my game. Cliffy, you rock, but then, you already knew that...
Tristan: I write this sarge in the hope that it will inspire you and take your minds off what has happened , though it is of course strongly tied to the tragic events of this week.
Last week I hooked up with a woman at a local coffee shop. I had met her a few months ago. As we sit down, I notice a stunning brunette next to us. Though I normally would not have made a serious effort to get her number since I was already with another woman, this one gave me such a friendly smile and had such a great energy that I had to do something about it. But I wanted to it in such a way that would not offend the very decent woman I was already with.
I succeeded. I simply politely interrupted my conversation with my lady friend, turned to the other lady and said, 'I'm sorry but I couldn't help notice your beautiful Parisian accent. It just reminded me of my vacation in that wonderful city and it is like music to my ears. Are you of French origin?'
She answered with a warm smile and from there it was child's play. I simply asked her to join us at our table, calibrating to make sure my friend was ok. I got them both involved in a great conversation. After 15 minutes Maily (pronounced My -lee) my new friend had to leave. But before leaving she asked US when we were doing a recital (the other lady is a violinist). So I of course offered to put her on my email list and send her an invitation to my next recital.
Finished off the evening with my violinist friend, who was fine with all of this because I hadn't neglected her in any way,and had always included her in our conversation.
Fast forward to today.
Noon. I wander the streets talking with various people in my neighborhood about the incredible events of the morning. I walk by the jewelry shop she works in and hesitate before going in. I knew she was working today and had actually planned to close for a meeting. But now, since my state was so different I didn't know if it would be a good idea.
I decide to go in and just chat. She is very friendly and greets me warmly. We talk about the events, reflecting solemnly on something we know will burn itself in our memories forever. Since she is servicing a customer, I prepare to leave. But she turns to me and asks me if I'll be around the neighborhood. A great sign. I immediately offer to get together for coffee
Six p.m., she's right on time. We sit, we continue on the topic of the tragedy. I had thought about it all day, as had every other person on the planet. We both were both feeling so odd. Yet we also both felt such a need to express ourselves about it. The delicate thing was finding a way of doing it without anchoring and exacerbating these intense emotions. I found the way. I decided to avoid doing what everybody else was doing. That is, rehashing over and over again the gory details of body parts, people throwing themselves off the towers and so on, and focus instead on the need for reflection and for searching for other aspects to the event.
'You know' I said, ' one thing we can say for sure, today, many new friendships will be formed. People will connect in incredible ways, millions of New Yorkers roaming the streets, thousands of stranded travelers will inevitably be drawn towards each other in the face of this common tragedy. Sons and daughters will remember to call their parents and tell them that they love them, parents will hug their small children and thank God that they are safe. Those are the moments that may redeem us yet.'
As I said this, I wasn't even pointing between the two of us . I didn't need to. We were already developing a warm connection even as I was speaking .
I did her cube. It was a beautiful picture; a balanced, strong realist, a healthy size glass cube with a silver lining, flowers blooming in a desert of rich fertile soil and a sturdy white Pegasus flying gloriously under a storm whose rains only made the flowers and the elements of the picture healthier and more vibrant.
It lasted a mere hour. I walked her back to her car, I didn't even have to worry about whether or not I should set up the next meeting or even how. She had many times expressed sincere interest in my music. I simply asked her to join me for dinner at my place this Sunday evening. She agreed without even flinching. As we parted I gave her a tender kiss on the cheek, she responded with a warm and genuine hug and told me that she was very happy I had invited her for coffee. She had been afraid of feeling depressed about all this and somehow I had managed to make her feel ok.
What I liked best about this woman was her total lack of mind games. No "playing hard to get". It seems that our feelings stemming from the day's tragedy were too genuine to allow any kind of the usual bullshit.
I went home happy. Feeling a sense of peace. Grateful for the good fortune of being alive, and more importantly for having been blessed with people like Ross, Major Mark and all of you with whom to share my feelings and experiences.
Stephanie: (Commenting to Christopher) Just because a person (man or woman) does not feel the need to boast or inform others of their sexual exploits does not mean they don't have any, but rather happen to have manners and class. Whatever happened to men with good manners and no underlying motives? Or at least if they have one they are subtle about it. A person who needs to be trained to speak on how to get a woman in one's life likely doesn't really have much to offer to begin with. If you are lacking in personality no matter how many lines or techniques you learn, you are still a bore. No matter who you are, if you are in a long term relationship your true colors will show eventually. If yours are off colored then I would suggest that you run, duck and get a good lawyer. I live and work in Silicon Valley where many so called computer geeks are also working and residing and here there are three men to every one women. I would much rather date a man who is intelligent and not much to look at than some pompous asshole who had to be taught how to appear attractive to me and subtly manipulate me into liking him and sacrificing my entire future to be with his sorry, no good ass. As far as who you are, yes I do believe that man has control over his feelings, interests, morals and goals. And if you have no poetry in your heart you won't touch me, but if you don't even know your own heart how will even you know whether you do or not? If you really know yourself and are comfortable and accepting, more people will be willing to do the same. Someone like this sounds to me like someone who is a miserable person who avoids love and real intimacy at any cost. If you are not yourself then whoever you end up with will not be in love with you, but rather the image you project.
Christopher: Ross will probably say it better than I can, but I know it needs saying, so I'm going to throw in my 2 cents here:
These guys think it's important to retain all the control all the time. I think it's funny and smacks of rigidity, like a little boy who throws a snit fit over not getting his little ice cream cone or toy or whatever.
There was a study done (Cialdini, if I remember right), that showed the best way to extinguish an undesirable behavior was an absolute lack of response.
Punishing undesired behaviors often reinforces those behaviors. I wouldn't be surprised if every time you go off on some woman's bullshit some part of her mind is laughing up it's sleeve and saying "look at how stupid that fucker looks!" Even if you do it in a low key way, with maximum possible dignity, she may just indulge that behavior, just to show herself she has some control over you.
All of that goes away when a woman perceives you as a rare and valuable commodity, and knows you are willing to "next" her. Then she knows her act had better come together, or she will end up forgotten in the trash bin of your history.
I really enjoy being surprised by a woman anticipating my desires and satisfying them in her own inimitable way. This only happens with a woman who has enough latitude to show initiative, and for whom pleasing me is in itself a reward.
That won't happen when put the blinders on her and crack the whip constantly.
The key here is self-understanding. You need to know what limits you need others to observe, and you need to know what pleases you, and cooperate within that framework.
Then all you have to do is touch her with the spurs, and watch her respond (borrowed that line from Ross's frame videos).
Robby: Hi, I want to say to all of you out there that I really want to be as good as all of you are at seducing women. The thing is I am a student and don't have enough money to buy the products I should.
I have learned the basics from this list. It is you people whom I admire and If I am mistaken the key to seducing women (please give me your feedback on this), is by this following system.
1. Approach You should always approach with confidence, directness and power. As if it is something you are comfortable with doing and thus they will believe you know what you are doing.
2. Opening lines Be inquisitive, interested, and never argue. Mirror everything she does so she thinks you are like her and you are Mr. Right. Use open body language.
That's where I am stuck. I don't know how to ask for a date, and where to go, what to do, or even how to get her into bed. Can you guys help? I really want to become an expert. Is there some free sites out there you can recommend?
NightLight9: (Commenting on: A guru master "But I usually have no problem tuning on the lust after doing this. That's because I absolutely love interrupting patterns. I'll go from total 'asshole/joker/teaser' and STRAIGHT to sincere. Just as an example..."):
Lately you've been posting a lot of awesome stuff. Really good thought provoking things about framing and challenging her views. This is one of the diamonds that might easily get lost. I do this all the time, but I never realized it. Just change the subject, subtext and tone of conversation just like that. It definitely causes a state change in them. Use it to your advantage.
I was thinking about this the other day. Have you ever had one of those friends who you didn't actually like that much, you know, kind of an asshole, but you still hung out with him because he was exciting and wanted to do fun things? I think for a lot of women they date some men for the same reasons. Sure he's a bit of an effort to deal with, but he's fun and exciting. He keeps me busy and entertained, even though in my mind I shouldn't like it. If you want to think about it.
(Commenting on: "a guru master [snip] And I never thought this would ever happen, but she said that I was talking TOO slowly! I have never been told this before and was shocked, because I have no re-collection of having talked slowly at all. I thought I might have spoken too FAST, because this used to be my tendency. So don't overdo it either! But generally, guys speak too fast. I have been working very hard at slowing down my movements, voice, etc., and have had good results with it."):
One thing to note is that speech speed is different than speech pattern (which includes pauses). You typically want to mirror someone's speech speed, while still inserting pauses. If someone speaks extremely, extremely slowly, you may not want to slow all the way down to their speed (in my case I wouldn't even want to talk to them), but you do want to come close. If someone speaks really fast, you want to go significantly slower than them, but you can go faster than someone who speaks normally. Generally someone's speech speed indicates the speed at which their brain processes verbal communication and the speed at which they are comfortable listening to. Don't forget the pauses though. guru master guy, did she speak quickly in general?
[/i](Commenting on: "MTL- PUA MTL- PUA commenting on an anonymous guru master's comments The moral Stay on top of your game and challenge EVERYTHING she says. Keep her on her toes, and DO NOT LOSE CONTROL of the situation; EVER."):[/i]
I've seen MTL- PUA in action and one thing he does really well is not apologize. For instance, if he says "What's your name" and she doesn't hear him and says "What?", he says "Your name... You do have a name, right?" like she's being the asshole. The funny thing is, he does it with the slightest smile, and they love it. That's one thing I'm really trying to incorporate into my game.
Don: Cliff, see if anyone on the list knows about this shit: www.safesexgetpaid.com
Mark B.: You know I have been thinking about the difference between the "nice guy" and the "jerk" and the whole issue of control in relationships all in one. Women claim that they want a "nice guy," a gentleman, someone who buys them flowers, treats them well, buys the cards and holds open doors and kisses their ass. At the same time they seem to date men that treat them like shit, cheat on them, do not call and otherwise treat them with little overall respect. How does one reconcile the two along with the issue of control?
It seems that women need to feel the strong masculine energy of a man in order to feel feminine and protected. They continually feel the need to reassure themselves of the existence of his masculinity, in order to feel safe, by testing the extent to which she can control him. The greater the control she can exact over him the less masculine he appears in her eyes. That is why women seek out men that resist their desires and act in the face of her wishes and whims. They display more masculinity and as a result a woman can feel safer and thus more attracted to him. This is why we read stories of women succumbing to men who mismatch and assert their desires over them. A women under that scenario feels safe to surrender because she somehow feels that he has the masculine energy to protect her from harm since he is able to show that he can assert himself to her and in the face of the world. This ability appears to overshadow the lack of meeting her wishes and desires.
When women say they want to get a nice guy and like they way nice guys treat them, I believe there are two separate and distinct issues here that we need to deal with. Let's deal with the issue of women saying they want to get a nice guy but they fall for jerks first. Notice how I said to get him is the goal, not keeping him around. By getting him to be nice and succumb to her wishes she has realized subconsciously that he has given up his power and now is powerless to protect her and stand up to the world. She no longer looks up to him. It seems that the ability to know whether a man is controllable is very important for it indicates to her the extent to which she can trust him and feel safe and she feels the need to continually reassure herself of his ability. This is why you see women constantly trying to control the men they date in they hope of reassuring themselves they can feel safe and feminine. And when we stand up to them right off the bat when we meet them and show them we are in control and will not be taken by their whims they feel more attracted to us and stay around. They stay around continually trying to gain the upper hand in order to see whether we still have the ability to retain control. I also believe this is why women seek to date men they cannot control or jerks, as they are called. They admire these men, as much as they complain and whine about them, for their ability to assert themselves.
The second issue is one where women say they like to get flowers, cards and other crap as well as having doors held and other gentlemen type nonsense done for them. Notice again that women say they like to get flowers and cards from a man. What they do not say is they love a man who gives them flowers or cards. Subtle but important distinction. They simply like the material gifts but not necessarily the source of those gifts. They perceive gift giving as a weakness because it's assertiveness from a man they really want to see rather than material offerings which are seen as a backdoor way of getting things done in the world.
Regarding the issue of attention, there is a lot of literature on when a man should call a woman or how often. I have found that women need to feel a sense of connection and bonding right away. Withholding contact and attention causes her to feel abandoned, as if you have other better priorities in the world. When you do call her after an absence she feels like your second choice. I think calling her and being attentive is appropriate as long as you do it on your own terms. In other words call when you feel like but often enough she feels attended to and take her where you desire as often as you want but all on your own terms.
Basically the whole issue boils down to control. The next time she tries to control you or get you to agree you can think "By agreeing this will make me look to be lesser of a man and by disagreeing I will look more attractive." Also, when you think of going for what you want and expressing your desire for her you can keep in mind that even though she may not agree to what you suggest you will look more attractive in her eyes simply by going for what you want. And this will increase the odds of inevitably getting what you desire.
This explains why when women do not run away when I tell them I want to sleep with them, have passionate love affairs, or otherwise. Even though they sometimes may not agree to what I suggest they stay around and feed off the strong male assertive energy they need to feel.
To give you real life example, I met a married woman a while back. I told her I wanted to sleep with her behind her husband's back within 5 minutes of meeting her. She said no but despite that she kept calling me and e-mailing everyday. The more she asked me to stop talking about sex the more I talked about it. The more she wanted me to stop grabbing her when I saw her, the more I grabbed her. Her response to that was laughter and giggles. Eventually she began calling me at home at night to talk when her husband was out. I did nothing here but mismatch and disagree with everything she ever did and said and her response was incessant calls, frantic e-mails and great profound declarations of love for me. I put an end to it when she said she fell deeply in love with me.
I could recount other stories of this nature but I am sure you all get the point.
Rocker: There is all this talk about dominating a woman. But my serious question is, what if you are looking for a naturally DOMINANT woman, and you are a naturally SUBMISSIVE male? Aren't dominant women naturally attracted to submissive men? I like HOT women, but being spanked by women turns me on like nothing else.
Do you attract a dominant woman by being submissive from the beginning, or by being dominant and then "switching roles" in the bedroom?
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