She had almost no choice but to go for it
This is Cliff's Private List, a free e-mail relating to seduction. Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from people commenting are separated by horizontal lines with each commentator's name preceding each comment. Comments from previous emails are preceded by an ">", usually in front of that commentator's name). Feel free to forward this email to all your friends and encourage them to request a free subscription.
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The old website will soon be changed to just refer you to the new website, but for the time being there are still some items on there you may want to check out.
www.geocities.com/cliff604/CliffsList.html
Please go to the website for a full list of the rules, disclaimers, suggested links and referrals to other seduction sites and explanations of what this list is all about. Seminar, workshop & conference schedules are on the website also, as is a glossary of terms that may be used here that you may be unfamiliar with.
The NEW website is www.cliffslist.com where you can [url="www.cliffslist.com/archives"]read the latest emails[/url].
CLIFF'S LIST TECHNICALITIES:
Here is the list of the last 5 emails that were sent out:
1) I'm using all my power not to fall on the bed
2) She doesn't turn her phone on all the time
3) The second she earns it, turn and face her
4) Every girl would be jealous of you
5) When animals mate, they smell each other like this
Read them at www.cliffslist.com/archives
SPECIAL NOTES:
- All posts you see here have been submitted by the author, or permission granted by the author to be reposted here.
- Please read the promo section below as there are usually new things mentioned there each new email I send out. There are also many non-commercial announcements in there (eg. Lair news). The promo section will soon be transferred to a separate section on the website and will no longer be a part of the main email.
- This email originates in Montreal, Quebec, Canada - see below in the Lair section to read about activities in this and other cities.
Double Your Dating LIVE! NEW Seminar!
Los Angeles Mastery Program - Special seminar April 29 to May 2. This will be a one time, 4 day program, all new material. Guest attendee: Cliff! See you there?
For more information and to sign up: www.doubleyourdating.com/cl
Real Social Dynamics Returns to MONTREAL! New Dates - will be held during the Montreal Jazz Festival which runs July 2-17, 2004.
See below for their full workshop and seminar schedule. TD and Papa leave for Australia this week! If you are there, don't miss this rare opportunity to take their workshop and/or seminar in Sydney.
Montreal Seminar - $300 - July 10-11, 2004
Montreal Workshop - $600 - July 9-11, 2004 (NOTE NEW DATES)
Cliff's List is now an RSD
affiliate and if you sign up for their workshops and seminars by clicking www.realsocialdynamics.com/
you are also supporting this list.
Big thanks go to Dr. Alex Bender of the Tao of Dating for tipping me off about a great little book called "The Joy of Letting Women Down" subtitled "Secrets of the Worshipped Male" by Natalie d'Arbeloff (www.nataliedarbeloff.com/) which you can buy at amazon.com. This book, while somewhat tongue in cheek, holds some profound information that starts with a comment on the back cover that asks "Ever wonder why the womanizer is never short of willing women?" The author offers the key to "addictability" (or getting women to be addicted to you) which is expressed in this little ditty:
"First a hit
Then a miss
over and over
equals bliss"
Which is the formula to rev up women's emotions by continuously alternating between a positive act or statement (a "hit") followed by a withdrawal, a neg, etc. (a "miss"). This stimulates women's juices and swirls their emotions causing them to become hopelessly addicted to those feelings. Very interesting theories which in many ways just spell out in simple terms tactics well known in the PUA community (eg. "Push-Pull", fractionation, etc.), especially coming from a woman. The book is $15 plus s&h and worth reading.
Cult secrets review:
A few emails ago I posted the following promo:
''Charles Manson, Jim Jones, David Koresh - learn their secrets and achieve TRUE unlimited power at www.cultsecrets.com''
Here's a real interesting new ebook. The site begins with the author, after studying various seduction methods and NLP materials, asking himself "Why weren't women getting addicted to me? Why wasn't I having threesomes and moresomes?! I studied and applied all the techniques but I wasn't obtaining my true desires." So here he proposes that after having studied the cult leaders he has learned the secrets of getting what he truly wants out of life. We need a review of this!
I have received the ebook and have read it but I don't see that this book is going to deliver on the promises on their website. One of the first things I noticed was that there was a lot of this type of information: "How to Control a Stubborn Person: If you and your target are in a conversation and they suddenly disagree with you vehemently on some point, don't attempt to reason them out of it. Don't even let them think you believe them to be stubborn. Just continue the discussion. Then, all of a sudden, act as if they had been agreeing with you and proceed with your side of the argument. This will make them blow up. Make them insult you, not merely resist your reasoning. When they do this, look at them, then look down, and mutter. "Oh, OK." They will be embarrassed. Now tell them you agree with whatever they said. They will be in such a conciliatory mood that they will compromise the argument." Now how well this will work is debatable to start with, but even if it did work the problem is that you have now go
tten into a position where you have the upper hand for the moment but the book just drops you there. What do you do next? This type of advice happens over and over and I can't for the life of me see how the advice here is going to help you obtain your "true desires" (i.e. threesomes and moresomes). A good portion of the book (I estimate 50-60%) is spent giving you historical information and background on the various cult leaders before you get to the instructional section, which I found lacking in practical advice. Further, there seems to be a good bit of seduction material borrowed from elsewhere ("Symbol Fractionation", for one). My sense of it is that it is quite possible that the author is on to something and with someone pointing out the weaknesses and needed additional details, this book could be expanded to provide something worthwhile. But as it sits I would not recommend it.
Tyler Durden (www.realsocialdynamics.com/):
I recently attended the very stellar Double Your Dating Live seminar program with David DeAngelo, in Sydney Australia. It was a long flight from California to Sydney, but well worth the trip. The seminar rocked, and Sydney was the perfect city in which to test drive all of the new material and understandings. The venues at Darling Harbour and others throughout the city were phenomenal. Like walking into a model convention. Our "American accents" (mine is really Canadian) didn't exactly hurt either. More on that below.
For those who haven't heard David's other programs, this was a follow up and expansion of his Advanced Series DVDs and Sexual Communication programs.
The seminar contained a few previews of the upcoming Mastery Program, and a ton of other new stuff. I was very excited to hear the seminar, because the Advanced Series and Sexual Communication programs were very pivotal in the development of my game. I have been a student of David D for about a year and a half, which also happens to be around the time that my game started to really take off. I remember the first night I went out after listening to the Advanced Series, and using the now well-known "bratty little sister" frame to pluck a cute girl right out of a guy/girl 2set for a very exciting night. The Sexual Communication CDs were also the basis for much of my understandings of subcommunication and all of the various concealed levels of communication that are fundamental to attracting women in a natural way.
What really impressed me about the previous programs was that they were really based on the naturally successful guys' ways of interacting with women. David has been fortunate (or perhaps intentionally clever) to have spent a lot of time hanging out with naturally successful guys, and his programs are in part modeled after the fundamentals of their success.
There is a natural process by which women are attracted to men, that involves subcommunications of frame control, body language, tonality, attitudes, internal beliefs, and a general way of conducting yourself both on verbal and non-verbal levels. The program is ground breaking, and yet, given time to absorb it you realize that it all makes perfect sense. Unlike many other programs, DYD is less geared towards pushing lots of superficial level tactics, and is more a phenomenal consolidation of everything that is real world and natural and empirically verifiable. Any person can adopt it, and see results immediately. That was my experience, and is what I believe to be realistic of anyone else who takes the program. As can be expected, I was very excited to attend the new Sydney Live program.
The seminar got going and grabbed my attention immediately. David is a phenomenal speaker and got the ball rolling with some very intriguing material. There was a great first line that really stuck with me after the program. "Think back to the last girl that you really blew it with by coming across needy and of lower social value. Now take her name, and add the word 'mistake' to the end of it. You now have your official term of reference." For me, it was Cheryl. Since the seminar, I have countless times cut myself off from screwing up with the various women that I'm seeing. "Uh oh, the Cheryl mistake. Stop it now." Poof, problem solved.
There were many other examples of this genre throughout the seminar, which I found very helpful with inner game. David really has a phenomenal grip and ability to articulate the ways that guys are prone to come across as needy, and spoil their attraction with women. There were several times during the seminar that I was left shaking my head, thinking back to all of the relationship mistakes that I've made over the years. He was just shredding through piles of them, and you could really feel the guys in the room pierced with self-recognition. I almost felt like he was addressing me personally. It really hit home.
There were some great expansions on both the biological background to attraction, and of course David's staple outer game concept of cocky and funny. Much of this I'd never encountered, such as the explanation of Light and Dark biology and psychology. It was very fascinating, and shed light on many of the tendencies that I've seen in people over the course of my daily life. There were many slides and examples of body language and composure, all of which came back to what he called "The Prime Directive", which was, "Never Communicate Lower Status". The corresponding outer game tactics were useful and very well explained as well. David had a plethora of great lines. A personal favourite was his explanation of women acting overtly sexual as a sort of shit test. "A Matrix style EPM bomb that neutralizes every sentinel, or guy, in sight". I use it as a routine now, whenever girls get out of hand. Notably, David had in attendance a DYD staff member named Billy who was a total natural with C&F. He had his own style
of observational C&F style humour. Billy will go into any situation, and quickly find something useable. For example, he will spot a fresh stain on a girls' shirt, and tease her for not knowing how to do laundry. Or he'll use reversals, like busting on a girl that she needs to get to the gym with a totally straight face, when he's very obviously out of shape himself.
Seeing his facial expressions and delivery in real life was great. David's other co-worker, Chance, was another natural with some great stuff on being carefree and coming across fun and non-approval seeking.
The highlight of the seminar, for me, was when David took some time to briefly discuss personal matters of his life philosophy and success strategies and experiences. During a Q&A session, a student asked David about his internal beliefs and personal experience in the dating field. You could feel the whole room go quiet, as the vibe was that David was about to share something special. I've heard plenty of this kind of information from other sources, but it was particularly inspiring to hear someone speak on this subject who actually walks the talk, and has obviously gotten the results. It was very fascinating to see how this philosophy and ensuing habits was what led him to success with women, and how success in general life was tied into a bigger picture. David really projects an aura of success and congruence, which women very obviously respond to. I think that that's something that really distinguishes David from other many dating experts, in that he is an individual who thoroughly understands patterns of
success, and has applied that proficiency to his field of choice - dating.
As for the caveat emptors, I really can't bring to mind anything that wasn't completely positive. I had a great time. The event was very professional, and positive. The hotel and the lunches were great, and everything was kept very punctual and well managed. Many of you reading this will have heard rumours of the stunning blonde bombshell, Shannon, who helps manage the program. She did a phenomenal job being helpful and making everyone comfortable. It is obvious that she is totally on the ball. Notably missing from the DYD alumni were Craig and Farmer, who I've met previously and were awesome. I expect that they will be at the Mastery Program in Los Angeles.
Having watched the DVDs, I was very interested to note of all of the advantages of the live program. David encouraged group connections, and post-seminar contacts. The group thinking exercises were very helpful. And the live atmosphere was very much more involved and immersed than the DVD/CD experience. One thing that my close friend and Toronto wing, Deep6, has reinforced into me in the past year is that repetition and immersing yourself into something is what really pounds change into your subconscious mind. It shifts thinking patterns and forces internalization and attitude shift.
So having taken the seminar, the real question is the bottom line - did I see worthwhile improvements as a result? Absolutely. I paid very close attention during the seminar, to ensure that I'd get the most out of it.
The night after the seminar I went out and immediately applied what I'd learned. While on a bus, I spotted an adorable girl in the seat behind me, accompanied by a friend and two other guys. To my surprise, I spotted a little wine stain on her shirt, that she'd obviously had spilled on her earlier that night. I thought it must be fate that right after hearing Billy's line about the laundry teasing, that I should spot something like this, so jumped on the opportunity the second I saw it. She was very responsive, and I proceeded to tease her and make faces at her. The interaction was playful and fun, and the frame was very much that she was working to gain my attention. My friend was sitting in the seat in front of me, and right on all of the high points of the interaction I'd pull away a bit, and turn back to him and say "Is she waiting for me to come back?" His reply every time, "Like a puppy dog, man. Turn back to her." We went into a venue together, and I introduced her to my sister who was visiting with me
. The whole time I kept up the cocky & funny, with the kind of frame reversal teasing that David goes through in his seminar. "I need to tell you something. This is serious. I'm pregnant. Our reckless hand holding has had consequences. I hope that you'll want to be a part of our new child's life, but either way I'm keeping it and there's nothing you can do about it. I'll be waiting for the monthly support check. You can start now by getting me something to drink. Oh my goodness, I just felt it kick. Hurry on that drink. Our baby needs it." Likewise, I focused on conveying that I have standards, in a slightly cocky and playful way. "To me, a girl has to be honest. She has to be smart and flirty and playful and fun. She has to have good friends and family that she loves so she's not needy. And she has to be able to fix cars and pay my bills. Perhaps you have none of these qualities except for the last two. But you have the cutest little Aussie accent, so I want to keep talking to you anyway."
That's something that I really like about David's material - it is even more potent on the kinds of girls that are confident and playful. This girl so clearly really did possess the first qualities that I'd mentioned, so by using implied compliments towards her in a way that was layered and taking two steps forward and one step back as David teaches, it was just so effectively communicated. Because of the teasing, it came from a position of higher status, not neediness. She later told me that she really liked that. I took her contact info, and we went out the next day. We toured the famous Sydney Opera House and surrounding Botanical Garden. A free date, and with so much tension it was really one of the most fun days I've ever had. I did the kiss-test, and it came back green light so I went for it. We hooked up, and we're still in touch now via email. I hope to meet up with her again this summer when I'm in Europe.
Anyway, it was a very memorable weekend in Sydney, and I wanted to share my experience. Though my game with women is very strong, I continue to learn from others and focus on continually improving. I give David DeAngelo and DYD my unconditional vouching as a top product that 100% delivers the goods. I'm looking forward to the Mastery Program in Los Angeles, and participating in future events.
If anyone has any questions or comments, feel free to email me at tyler@realsocialdynamics.com
stRiPPed:
Report from the Badboy Workshop in Amsterdam, March 2004.
Badboy invited me to assist his recent workshop in Amsterdam. This is my report to the community about what it was like. Although I don't have a lot of time to go into the details, I'll be glad to answer questions, if you still have them.
Badboy arrived from Zagreb a day early, on Wednesday, and spent several hours going over the training schedule with me, and teaching exactly how he wanted me to assist him. He and Shark have a different philosophy toward learning PU than anyone I have ever seen. It consists of leaving behind everything you might have read and learned about seduction. Before the workshop, Badboy told each of the six students to drop all their preconceptions -- all the routines, openers, process language and patterning, and to temporarily forget everything they might have read on ASF or heard from someone else.
Badboy concentrates 95% on attitude and inner game. I know there have been a lot of debates about which "approach" in the community is best, which in the end amounts to a pissing contest between commercial PUAs, competing for disposable income of the desperate and eager. To me that's all noise; I believe there is something important to learn from all the gurus out there. In the end it depends on how strong you are inside; the stronger your ego, and your inner state, the more likely you will be able to relax, connect with your true self, have fun and succeed. The moment of truth arrives when you realize you are strong enough to make it alone. Or when you are with a teacher whose only goal for three days is to help you get there.
With a tip of the hat to the other self-proclaimed gurus out there, Badboy began his training by saying, "Leave the other info behind just for now. You'll get back to it later. Begin just with who you are." He does not indoctrinate students with his teachings. He does not appear to have a method, but advises students to act naturally as if he were already as successful as he wanted to be. He and Shark even teach direct approaches, telling women "You are beautiful. I like you." If your attitude is right, the rest does not matter.
I myself experienced the power and confidence of this knowledge, making the direct approach and having it work. I remember guys who succeeded in the past have gotten flamed by others who haven't had the direct approach work for them. I shouldn't have listened to them. The direct approach is gold; the best you can learn. Badboy trains his students very hard; he puts you in the ring with the heavyweight champions, and when you're done the rest is easy. If you can do that, you can do anything.
Badboy has an unorthodox teaching style. His workshop is neither a workshop, lecture, class nor a seminar, but a training, in which each guy was given large doses of individual attention. Each student was given specific exercises which Badboy had chosen for him individually. These exercises had to be repeated over and over until Badboy was satisfied with the improvement that had been made. These exercises are all interactive -- talking, walking, shouting, fighting, game playing, role playing -- all designed to turbocharge everyone's inner game.
At the beginning of the first day, we took out the white board and wrote down sticking points and personal information on a separate sheet for each student. Badboy referred back to each of these sheets throughout the training, and worked on them in detail one-on-one with each guy. On occasion Badboy or I took a student into the next room or into a corner of the big room to work out something one-on-one.
The workshop itself was held in very chic, professional conference space on the top floor of a canal house at a prime location in the heart of Amsterdam. The training room was so good that we've reserved the space to hold future meetings for the NL Lounge, which is the center of the Dutch-speaking seduction community internationally. Our room was outfitted with couches, tables and desks, blackboards, white boards, and all the coffee you could drink, which we needed by the end of each evening.
Not only is Badboy unorthodox, but he is also tireless, extremely quick on his feet and amazingly perceptive. He seems to be able to see within seconds what someone needs to overcome a certain sticking point, and then, right on the spot, comes up with a new and original exercise. The exercises could be very physical and continued until late into the night. Each evening. Badboy took the guys into the clubs, literally pushed them into sets, pulled them out, critiqued them, and pushed them back in again. He was always there looking right over their shoulders.
As a result of this approach, it was amazing to be able to see some of the guys I had been going out with for the past couple of years, transformed right before my eyes. Every night, when we went out to the cafes and clubs, I noticed how much the guys had improved each day. Now, a few weeks later, these guys have grown dramatically and seem to keep getting better all the time.
One more very important aspect of the Badboy training that I think ALL workshops should include from now on: all guys should know how to go out and wing with one another. This aspect of the game is essential, but I will save that discussion for another time.
Carlos Xuma (www.seductionmethod.com):
> Mark B.: if she is not attracted to a guy physically, there is little that can be done to get her to see him other than for friendship. And if he does succeed in becoming romantically involved with her it¹s usually on the basis of guilt or some sort of verbal and mental submission, it's only temporary and when the effect wears off she bolts or finds a lover on the side while you shell out for dinner and clothes.
CARLOS: I completely disagree. "Attractive" to women is not the same thing as it is for men. How many times have you heard a woman say, "Yeah, I dig him, and he's totally NOT my type!" Women respond to attitude and personality the way men respond to a 38D rack and looks. To her, she'll find you the hottest thing on 2 legs if you can make her laugh, demonstrate Alpha Man behaviors, demonstrate confidence and skill with her, stand up to her tests and give her the right attitude.
This is a dangerous myth, one that leaves guys afraid that they can never have a hot girlfriend just because he's not Justin Timberhead, or whatever his name is. As long as she is not REPULSED by a man's appearance, you can make yourself a lot more attractive by using the right posture.
Ever notice how a woman, unless she's visibly turned off, will ALWAYS describe just about every man she sees as "cute"? You have to be way off from her particular tastes to be ruled out based on looks. (*That is, until you open your mouth. : ) You can't wait around for the women who happen to find you visually appealing. That's the other side of this myth that creates men who settle for the first woman who will sleep with him - or live in fear of rejection.
> Mark B.: If a woman is attracted to a guy she will give him slack, room to connect with her and even if he does not get things right, she will forgive him to some degree because she finds him desirable.
CARLOS: Exactly. This I agree with. Attractiveness buys you some time and slack, something that less appealing guys might not get. It's a buffer zone to make a couple of goofs. But it still doesn't get her in bed with him unless she's really in heat for him.
> Mark B.: He sees these signs and knows he only needs to do the minimum to keep her engaged. And when she is not interested, he knows there is little or next to nothing he can do to win her over.
CARLOS: Not necessarily accurate. Minimum should mean "minimum effort before it starts to appear as if he's needy or insecure." Don't be lazy, because true seduction requires effort, but once you get the hang of it, it's like riding a bike. As for "not interested," I would hesitate to say that if the feelings are neutral to positive, there is opportunity. If she has made the mental decision "NO WAY" then there are still methods, but most require more effort than is warranted for the reward of getting her.
> Mark B.: He goes overboard with his expression of interest and comes off as desperate and lacking. He shows he does not know how to recognize signs of interest or disinterest. Women tend to have a sixth sense about these things. She is able to smell out a man in advance and as he fails her tests, she moves on.
CARLOS: True, and I would add that most guys aren't aware just HOW QUICKLY she can pick up on the neediness of a guy. It comes off him in waves of stink, as if he'd been sprayed by a skunk. It's given away in the wrong twist of your head, or a question that says, "I'm subtly looking for your approval." This is why I preach that men MUST be dating many women at once, and even more so when they've found someone special.
> Mark B.: I have found that most women indeed play a game of backing the guy off to see if he will respect her wishes and still seem fine with not having her sexually before she sleeps with him for the first time.
CARLOS: This is an excellent observation of a Test. Women can sense when a guy isn't giving her breathing room, or is clingy because of a fear of loss. (Two motivators in life - Fear of loss and Promise of gain. ) It's less about if he obeys her and more if she will feel the resultant feeling of being overwhelmed. I believe her "back off" ploy is just a space to breathe in. If he rushes in to make sure he doesn't "lose her," he loses her.
Now, in a sexual context, yes, there is a game of "will he obey" going on.
It's also about control, and this is where guys need to really be on top of their game to handle these struggles for power.
> Mark B.: In fact, seeking to maximize gains has been shown to result in greater losses. This means that we are better off looking to prevent being seen in a negative light rather than trying to create some positive, all too often false image.
CARLOS: This sounds a bit like scarcity thinking, or the "I will win by making sure I don't lose" method, which has it's place, but is not as affective as doing BOTH - avoid the negatives as well as promote your strengths. Don't play a scared Game; play a complete Game.
I do agree that less is better, and that just means that less focus on any particular woman will almost always work to your benefit. Just don't get caught up in the defensive posture. Be an active risk-taker.
Ole Flirty Bastard:
The ethics of seduction
When I started to study pick-up and seduction, a big dilemma I had was whether what I was undertaking was RIGHT. I felt a little dishonest, dare I say SLEAZY, about the whole idea of using "tricks" to improve my chances with women. I also felt like less of a "real man" in seeing I had to resort to them. I realized eventually that such moral dilemmas would have to be worked out in order for me to be congruent, and have any success in the field at all. From what I've seen on this list most of the guys out there are decent, moral people with a conscience, so I think that a lot of people in this game have at some point or another felt this way. I'd like to lay out the thinking that got me over this dilemma, in the hopes that anyone else struggling with the same problem might be able to iron out this kink in their inner game.
First of all, realize that there’s nothing wrong with having to learn tactics to meet and seduce women. Most men are absolutely CLUELESS in this area, and it's not entirely their fault. A lot of this has to do with being raised by our mothers, as well as the tendency of men not to seek out help or advice. Women, on the other hand, grow up reading Seventeen magazine and YM, watching soaps, and focusing more on interpersonal relationships than men. By the time they’re adults they have a whole array of techniques and strategies to tease, hook, and trap a man. They become MASTERS (mistresses?) of manipulation of the opposite sex. Until the Internet resources we enjoy became available and known, men didn’t have anything like Cosmo or Sex In The City to teach them the finer points of meeting and choosing a mate. So the fact that you’re learning techniques to be able to deal with their expertise on their level doesn’t make you less of a man; it just means that you’re catching up to their extensive experience, and le
veling the playing field.
Another important step is to remove from your mind any negative connotations with the idea of manipulation. (Credit to Ross Jeffries for getting me thinking about this issue). I believe that all human beings require SOME level of manipulation! Advertising tries to manipulate us to buy soft drinks and the latest clothes. You try to manipulate your friends to go see the movie that YOU want to see. The act of manipulation (and the technology/techniques we use in our case to do it) is morally NEUTRAL; it’s just the context under which it’s done which makes it good or bad. For example, a salesman manipulates you into buying a product, which is his job. You’re happy with the product you bought, and he’s happy with the commission he made. Where’s the harm?
You may also have a problem assuming the techniques and the seduction mindset into your personality, thinking that the methods just aren’t YOU and that it presents a "fake" you. Consider this: Let’s say you’re an engineer. Were you an engineer from birth? Of course not. You had to study math and the sciences in high school, and then pursue higher education to get an engineering degree. It took years but now, YOU are an engineer! And so it is with seduction. If you continue learning new material and field-testing it, eventually it’ll become YOU. Realize also that a woman out on the town in flashy, skin-tight clothes and painstakingly-applied makeup is NOT “her”. “Her” is the girl who 5 hours earlier was sitting on her sofa watching a rerun of Angel in jeans and a dirty T-shirt. The heels, the make-up, the confident air, ALL of these are tools to make herself appear more attractive to the opposite sex. So don’t feel guilty or awkward when using "personality tools" of your own to achieve the same result.
Most importantly, if you value yourself and your life as being important in the grand scheme of things (and you SHOULD, since it’s YOUR life), then you should also believe that you deserve the very best that life has to offer. This includes finding the very best MATE that you can find. If learning seduction techniques and applying them can improve your chances of meeting the best woman for you out there, then mastering them is one of the noblest undertakings of your life.
Thundercat (www.thundercatseductionlair.com/ebook.htm):
Fear, and the Art of Approaching
Okay, I want to talk about something here which I've touched on a bit in the past, especially with my first article to Cliff's List, which was "Zen, and the Art of Opening," where I talked about how to properly approach a woman and construct Openers of your own.
I’m willing to bet that there has been a time in every man’s life where he has been afraid to approach someone he’s found attractive. And because this is such a prevalent phenomenon, many men have come to the conclusion that approaching women is hard, stressful, and at worst, downright scary.
And because it is such a widespread feeling among men, we all understand it when guys decide not to approach a woman they like. We just nod our heads and mutter “You’re better off without her,” or “She wasn’t really your type anyway,” or the patented “There’s plenty of fish in the sea, bro.”
But like it or not, this fear of approaching is a rather irrational one. People are social creatures, and need human interaction to survive (at least to stay mentally healthy, anyway). However, despite this, most people fear public speaking more than death, and would rather stand in a corner quietly drinking than interact with others at a party. And when asked, they will almost always respond “I’m afraid of failure,” or “I’m afraid of rejection.” But no matter how they respond, they will always blame it on one thing: being afraid.
So where does this fear come from?
First of all, I’d argue that it is not always fear that hinders men from approaching women. Rather, I’d say its laziness. Sir Isaac Newton had a theory, and that theory went something like this:
“Objects in motion stay in motion. Objects at rest, stay at rest.”
When you’re not approaching someone with the intent of befriending them or picking them up, even when you WANT to, you are in a state of “rest.” This is a state where you’ve established what I like to call a “comfort zone.” This is a place where you feel safe. Secure. Comfortable. In this zone, you know what to expect, and therefore don’t have to worry about feeling afraid. And more often than not, you won’t want to leave your comfort zone, because approaching someone introduces the prospect of uncertainty into your life. It takes EFFORT to get out of your comfort zone, and most of the time, people prefer to be lazy and stay comfortable, rather than do the work it takes to meet their goals.
This comfort zone can be the bane of your social existence. And this is the first barrier you have to approaching a woman you desire.
But there is a second barrier that exists, and this is often the hardest one to overcome. Even those who do the work to leave their comfort zone must face this barrier before they can proceed. This barrier is what causes your stomach to tighten and contract. It’s what causes your heart to beat faster. It’s what causes you to break into a cold sweat and your palms to go clammy.
It’s fear.
But it’s not the type of fear you might think. Many guys will site their “fear of rejection” as the thing that hinders them from approaching women, but I disagree with this. Now, this is my theory, and you have every right to disagree with this theory because I have no scientific evidence to back it up. But this is what I think most guys suffer from:
Fear of Loss.
I know it sounds crazy, especially considering you don’t have the woman you want yet, so how can you lose her? Well, let me expound on this kookie theory of mine a bit.
When you see a girl you’re attracted to, that you KNOW you want to have sex with, what happens? Do you get that funny feeling down below, like when you used to climb the rope in gym class? Do you imagine holding her in your arms, making sweet monkey love all night long? Do you fantasize about how her breasts feel or how her lips taste? Or do you just know that “Girl give you raging BO-NAR!”?
Call it desire, call it lust, call it whatever you want. But you have to admit one thing to yourself: You wanna tap that ass.
And this is where the barrier exists. It’s this intense desire for that woman you find attractive that hinders you from meeting her. It’s that incredible urge to fuck her, that overwhelming sense of “want.” You simply WANT that girl -- especially if you’re coming from a place of need. The fewer women you have in your life, the stronger this feeling becomes.
It’s this desire that overtakes you and short circuits your brain. It’s this desire that keeps you from thinking of clever things to say. And it’s this desire that creates that fear of loss.
Desire creates an intense WANT of that woman. And where there’s an intense WANT, there’s also an intense desire not to LOSE what you want! Am I right? That is why you censor yourself around desirable women. You keep quiet, because you don’t want to mess up your “chances.” You don’t want to do anything that may screw up the possibility that you can GET what you WANT.
And when you DO take action to get that woman you so desire, you take a chance that you could LOSE that woman you want so badly. And that is where the fear comes from. Not really from rejection, we have too much rejection in our lives to be bothered by it. Not really from failure either, because we fail at stuff every day. But when we LOSE something, something is taken away from us, and we experience a type of emptiness that is incredibly HARD to cope with.
That is why I think most men suffer from a Fear of Loss.
So when we break this down, here are the two barriers that keep men from approaching:
Comfort Zone --> Fear of Loss
If you want to get over your fear of the approach, you are going to have to learn to overcome these two barriers on a regular and consistent basis. So how do we do this?
There are many ways. I have laid a few out in my book The Art of Approaching which have worked for me and others I helped to train. In this book, I lay out a step-by-step plan on how to overcome your fear of approaching women. I give you over 35 specific examples of Openers, how they work, and what situations they work best in, so you'll never be at a loss to say.
I've gotten so many e-mails from guys who need help meeting women. Some are scared. Some are confused. Some are lazy. So in my book, I've broken down the act of the Approach to make it as easy to understand as possible. The book is meant to be a comprehensive resource with which to build your skillset off of, with lots of solid, great examples, and I break down the STRUCTURE of an approach into a logical sequence of events that's EASY to understand. And what's more is, I do this for every type of approach.
This is a book I would recommend for everyone out there who is struggling with women or just starting out in the community. The reason for this is that success all begins with the initial meeting. If you never meet the girl, chances are 0% that you'll get her into bed. If you are having a hard time meeting the kind of women you want, this book will not only tell you what to say, but it will give you the tools to train yourself to do so ANY where you may be at ANY time you want -- be it in bars, clubs, coffee shops, or grocery stores.
This is not a complete system of seduction, or a new "Method" of Pick-Up. Rather, it is breakdown of a SPECIFIC act that must be performed with ALL methods of seduction, be it Mystery Method, Swinggcat Method, Double Your Dating, or any other system out there.
If you want to find out more about the book, please feel free to visit my website and check it out. You can find it at:
www.thundercatseductionlair.com/ebook.htm
Every Friday I will be putting up an article on Approaching women. As always, the articles will be absolutely free to anyone who visits the site, with no mandatory opt-in for a mailing list.
I know how frustrating the act of Approaching can be, because I used to be someone who just COULD NOT do it. But through a great deal of hard work, I can now say with confidence that approaching women is no longer a chore, but rather a fun and enjoyable experience.
With the Art of Approaching, I hope to share my hard earned knowledge and help others who are struggling, so that they don't have to go through the difficulties that I did.
To your success!
James wrote in asking for an opinion on the site www.mojojones.com and the numerous seduction products offered there. Comments anyone?
Local guru master:
Cliff as you know, occasionally I get emails from guys asking for specific advice.
Email-guy question: I have noticed some naturals interacting with women and I notice girls chasing them, girls calling them all the time, asking them out for dates,etc.
This doesn't happen to me mostly. And I don't know how to solve this. Sure I get better reactions compared to the past, but why do I rarely get chased? It feels like the girls are losing interest after 2 minutes of interaction and that I have to keep it alive all the time with materials.
Local guru master: There are two main things that I focus on in PU, namely, age regression and conveying vulnerability, which is the toughest, scariest concept for most AFC's to grasp. But AFC does not equal vulnerability. Vulnerability is much deeper than typical ass-kissing AFC behavior.
You're probably getting some amount of age regression naturally, by cold-reading, cube, etc. that you do. The reason for getting age regression is obvious -- you want her to feel good, you want her in a suggestive state, and you want her to forget about things like housework, homework, cleaning, boyfriends, responsibilities and most personal problems.
You said it yourself. You have the necessary skill to initiate and game up women to get them attracted. You have a skill, which is like a sexual commodity. But you're not treating it like a commodity, or like money, or like any other means of exchange because you're giving it away for free.
They have pussy, and you have a dick. Right off the bat, assuming her pussy doesn't smell too bad, and you can have an erection, the interaction is equal.
Now you bring in a genuine desire to learn all about pleasing women, and the skill to be able to elicit attraction; now YOU'RE the one with the most to give. Women of this day and age don't generally study seduction and learn how to give a guy the best time possible by having fun games like the CUBE and memorizing jokes and anecdotes.
BUT YOU DID.
I hope I'm not being redundant here, but you are bringing more to the sexual table than she is. And if she wants it, she should earn it, ask for it, even beg for it.
How do you make her want to earn it? One way is by taking it away, and by giving things to her too slowly, thereby frustrating her a little.
A girl I am seeing now absolutely hates and despises McDonald's. She hates the food, the corporation, the bright lights. The other day, I got her to literally DRAG me to McDonald's and buy me a trio. I started to give her something, hesitated, and she dragged it out of me.
I met her after work and when she asked me where I wanted to go, I hesitated to tell her. Then I started to speak and hesitated some more. She started to get frustrated. So I told her in the nicest way possible, "Never mind... Are you hungry?" So I got her begging for it by withholding it. I waited to the point where she was becoming angry. When I finally gave it to her, and told her in the most sheepish tone that "I want to go to McDonald's" and she screamed, "ARRRRGH!", laughed, and said, "Fine. Let's go." I said, "NO, it's okay" and she said, "NO, we're going to McDonald's." and dragged me in. Presenting my idea to go to MCD's in this way, she had almost no choice but to go for it.
A silly example, I know, but it's to illustrate what I mean by being vulnerable and getting women to beg for something before you give it to them.
What if you we're to suggest playing the CUBE game in this way during the initial pickup? What if she had to FORCE you to play? What if you had a joke to tell her, but then decided not to. Or what if, the next time you tell a really awesome story and get people laughing and involved, you suddenly had an urge to go to buy another drink? And when the pretty girl finally does initiate something with you, and expects a response, how would she react if you made her wait for a whole two minutes while you went to the bathroom?
As soon as a girl wants anything from you, and an answer to a question being the most common thing women want, most guys just answer the question. Foolish! As soon as she wants something, frustrate her a little. If she wants to know your age, ask her to guess. If she wants to know something personal, ask her to disclose something first. And then STILL don't give it to her! It's a healthy frustration called "wanting it tax".
CAREFUL though, don't do it in an arrogant way, but do it in a shy, tentative, genuinely childish and vulnerable way. Age regress her, and age regress yourself. It's just school yard theory - You want the ball? Come and get it and chase after me for a while I tease you with it and hold the ball tightly.
In this case, it's the conversational ball that you are holding and not letting her have right away. Try it, it's a lot of fun.
A guru master, commenting on Chariot:
chariot: "Nahhh - it's chariot - hey did you know that they say you need 11 hugs a day to stay healthy?"
HBBlonde: "Ohhh - really *Hugs me*"
She is holding her wallet and it kinda gets in the road so I take it from her. I open it and take out her University ID. FUCK! She is a 25 year old Law Student!
AWESOME. I laugh and hold up her ID to her face - she playfully punches me in the stomach - to which I do the same.
HBBlonde: "Hey - your laughing at me!"
chariot: "Nah - your wallet was in the way of us getting our healthy hug"!
HEY, I'm honoured that people are using my cheesy (but effective) routines, even in Australia! 11 hugs a day... chicks usually melt for this one. I do it a little differently, but the outcome is the same: they hug you, SP you, and love you.
I will see some of you at the next RSD Montreal event, during the Jazz fest.
PROMOS & REVIEWS SECTION (there are NO paid ads in this list and never have been. The "commercial" section is distinguished by the "--------------" separators):
DAVID NEWS:
We now have a new writer working on the book who is enthusiastically absorbing all of David's ideas and is working feverishly to get this show on the road. David has been doing a lot more personal consultations lately and will hopefully have his newsletter out shortly. We still need questions by email and it would be appreciated if you could ask David about any related topic that could be of interest (how to find, meet, attract, close and keep women, etc.).
Please send them to him at david@be-relentless.com. I would recommend you copy me as well (cliff@cliffslist.com) so I will make sure they get answered.
All subscribers of these emails will be given a free subscription and, as here, you can unsubscribe at any time. I know that you will find his comments and advice to be pretty unique and very useful. We are also making progress on the long awaited book which we hope will be ready relatively soon now.
The tapes of the David Seminar are now available and are being shipped upon receipt of your order, but please allow 4-6 weeks for delivery. You can visit the website at www.be-relentless.com and orders should be made through paypal (go to www.paypal.com and send money to sales@be-relentless.com) if you need some other way to make payment, inquire at info@be-relentless.com. This product comes on two DVD discs for a total of approximately 6 1/2 hours of playing time. The price is $230 USD + $20 USD for the DVD which covers shipping and handling anywhere in the world. Inquire about shipping by overnight courier. These tapes are now available in a sound only version also.
Private in person or telephone consultations with David are available. David is particularly intuitive with regard to your specific individual problems with certain women. You can get on the phone, answer his questions on the situation, and he will give you very insightful advice on how to succeed in your particular mission.
PLEASE NOTE: This David is not to be confused with David DeAngelo of www.doubleyourdating.com (who has posted some great stuff here under the name "Sisonpyh"), or David Shade (of www.davidshade.com).
Blake Richards has put out a new ebook that looks very interesting. Check it out here: www.social-mastery.com/Game.html
Doc gives a class titled "How to Pick Up Women: Learn to Be Irresistible to Them!" in Toronto.
He also gives a "Power Dating" speed dating event there as well. This is a great opportunity to learn from a real master.
Real Social Dynamics WORKSHOPS:
I highly recommend that you check these guys out. Anyone interested in attending, email Papa at papa@realsocialdynamics.com with the subject "WORKSHOP" and mention that you heard about it from Cliff's List. Also note: RSD will consider working out payment plans to make their workshop affordable - mention this to them.
Real Social Dynamics (realsocialdynamics.directtrack.com/ad/1/CD11 ):
Learn what works in seminar, and then jump directly into the field and watch the instructors demonstrate and teach it live. Stop feeling the fear of not knowing what to do ...
Classroom Seminars ($200 deposit required for signup)
Saturday/Sunday 11:00am - 9:00pm
New York Seminar - $300 - April 24-25, 2004
Los Angeles Seminar - $300 - May 29-30, 2004
Amsterdam Seminar - $300 - July 3-4, 2004
Montreal Seminar - $300 - July 10-11, 2004
London Seminar - $300 - August 21-22, 2004
In-Field Workshops ($200 deposit required for signup)
Friday/Saturday/Sunday 9:00pm - 2:30am
New York - Workshop - $600 - April 23-April 25, 2004
Los Angeles Workshop - $600 - May 28-30, 2004
Amsterdam Workshop - $600 - July 2-4, 2004
Montreal Workshop - $600 - July 9-11, 2004
London Workshop - $600 - August 20-22, 2004
Individualized Boot-Camps ($200 deposit required for signup)
Friday/Saturday/Sunday 1:00pm - 2:30am
· Individualized Boot-Camp -$1500 - Schedule Date/Location with Papa
Go to realsocialdynamics.directtrack.com/ad/1/CD11 to signup for the next events on their schedule as they are launching a new program.
Mystery Method Workshops:
www.Mysterymethod.com is now activated again and Mystery is now giving seminars and workshops.
Two Hour Introductory Seminar April 16, 2004 Los Angeles, CA $50
Regular Seminars:
April 24-25 , 2004 Los Angeles $500 ($400 for past students)
May 22-23, 2004 Hawaii $500 ($400 for past students)
June 26-27, 2004 Chicago $750 ($650 for past students)
Mystery also offers In-Field Workshops, which are limited to only four students, and One on One In-Field Mentoring. If you are interested in either of these programs, please contact his business partner Herbal at herbal@mysterymethod.com.
Swinggcat has published a new ebook which you can check out at his website at www.realworldseduction.com. Those of you who remember his outstanding posts here will be anxious to get this as soon as possible. Highly recommended.
Ross Jeffries Speed Seduction Seminars (www.speedseduction.net/)
Advanced Speed Seduction® Seminars
Schedule 2004
Location Dates
New York, NY May 7, 8, 9
London, England September 3, 4, 5
Speed Life Seminars
Schedule 2004
Location Dates
Cancun, Mexico November 7 thru 13
Your Mind in Business
Schedule 2004
Location Dates
Dallas, TX June 21-25
Major Mark (www.trucor.com) has announced his schedule for 2004:
*Marknosis And Magick In Miami-- May 7-9
At the heart of every effective Change technology -- like organized religion, psychology and magick -- we find a common set of states and effects that allow you to truly experience and subsequently Believe. Join us in South Beach as we explore the hypnotic elements of Ritual and Magick. Sun, surf, sultry nights and amazing sights as we create our own body of powerful personal rituals for self-exploration, self-development, and the quest for Power and Influence in this world as well! Come for the toolbox of techniques that maximize influence within ritual behaviors, or just come to step through the looking-glass and begin living
*Beyond Seduction In Montreal -- July 16-18
Cliff's Comment: MONTREAL!!!!
*Introduction To Hypnosis -- The New Curriculum -- Las Vegas September 20-24
This year we were asked by a national hypnosis group to develop a New Curriculum for the training of hypnotists -- one which would reflect the absolute best of what has always worked while incorporating our own cutting-edge discoveries. We wanted a curriculum that was so comprehensive in explication and exercise that the graduates could walk into an internship anywhere in the world, secure that they were the best-trained hypnotists in the place. The result is being rolled out over five days in Las Vegas. This is your chance to immerse yourself in the most comprehensive approach to powerful, positive, permanent change ever presented!
Send mail to Cassi@trucor.com with questions or comments about these seminars.
Call to register: 419 882-8543 or go to www.trucor.com
Double Your Dating LIVE! NEW Seminar! We will be reviewing all of the new DYD products here soon, including the monthly interview series in which David DeAngelo interviews "Dating Gurus" such as Ben (), David X, and many others.
2004 Tentative Seminar Schedule:
Los Angeles Mastery Program - Special seminar April 29 to May 2. This will be a one time, 4 day program, all new material.
London, England, July.
New York September.
Las Vegas beginning of December.
You can order all your DYD products and register for seminars through this link: www.doubleyourdating.com/cl
Riker's Seduction Log - Live Seminar
If you always wanted to hear more field reports, with full details, and even some recordings, then this seminar is for you. Dave Riker (Ross's co-trainer for those of you who don't know him) spends about 3 hours each evening going through his personal Logs and notes and provides full reports on Sarges, many from start to close (finish). And that's a full "close" by the way, not just an email address or phone number!
The seminar is held in conjunction with Ross Jeffries Speed Seduction Seminars. Ross's seminar is during the day (and Riker presents at that too) and then Riker does his seminar in the evening. And even if you do not attend Ross's seminar you can still attend Riker's.
For full details see the web page at: http://www.daveriker.com/logseminar/track/cl.htm (site is either inactive or no longer relevant)
Be sure to check out his "Reviews" page on his site. Many guys that have been in the game for a while, and attended a LOT of seminars, were just blown away by Riker's Log seminar.
Introducing 1 on 1 Badboy workshops:
Badboy is a Croatian PUA from Zagreb who has spent almost 4 years in the game. He is also a respected poster in Mystery's lounge.
To see some of his stuff, search for posts by "croBadboy" on mASF or read one of the recent issues of Cliff's list.
Workshops are 1 on 1 for 3 days.
Each day consists of a 4-hour seminar and 5 hours of active in-field work. Each night you will make 20-30 approaches with your teacher to get field experience. 1 on 1 training makes it possible to answer any questions you might have and cover the most important aspects of the game in detail. Teachings are tailored to your level in the game.
The basic structure of the workshop is:
Day 1:
Social intelligence/emotional intelligence
How to dress, peacocking vs. dressing style
Alpha-male body language secrets
Attitude (inner-game) and getting a good seductive voice
Difference between emotional and party type girls
Social dynamics in clubs (2sets/3sets/lonewolves), know your city
Openers (sets with males vs. only-girl sets)
Day 2:
Difference between PUing alone and with a wing
Different tools for getting attraction
Power of contrast (bad boy & nice guy in one)
Stealing their frames
Passing sh*t tests
Push-pull
Isolation tactics(2steps)
Day 3:
AMOG tactics (the AMOG handshake, group set AMOG destroyers)
Boyfriend destroyers
Passing LMR
Secrets of good sex
How to manage a good relationship
More body language secrets
How to turn Coffee dates into fuck-fest in just 1 hour
How to turn a 0$ date into a time she will never forget
Difference between PUing in different places (small towns, big cities, colleges and the difference between certain clubs and the girls who go there)
Badboy says he can write a pages of what he does with guys because it's not just PU. He opens their EYES to LIFE, to understand how to live successfully.
For more info, email Badboy at badboy@playboylifestyle.net. See Badboy's new website: www.playboylifestyle.net
Thundercat's Seduction Lair
Get the latest News, Rumors, Tips, Tricks, & Analysis on the Pick-Up and Seduction community! The site is updated daily with lots of free and exclusive content.
Also a good way to keep up with things without having to navigate mASF. Drop By TSL today! www.thundercatseductionlair.com
The Art of Approaching: Learn to meet ANY woman, ANY time, ANY where. The most difficult hurdle for most men to overcome is that of the initial Approach. This comprehensive eBook gives you over 35 unique Openers, as well as a step-by-step roadmap to help overcome your fear of approaching forever!
www.thundercatseductionlair.com/ebook.htm
Impact Interaction (www.impactinteraction.com) @ London
Angel Caido, Ryobi and Lockstock have been running Workshops and Seminars in London since the beginning of the year. The workshops are small in size (trainer : student ratio of 2:1 as max), so students get personal attention on sticking points.
The workshops include:
- Basejump: For approach newbies who need to get internal game and basic attraction skills in gear
- Field Interaction: To perfect your bar/ club and street performance
- Solid Game: Everything good except lots of flakes? Few end results? End to end game sticking points covered…
For more information go to www.impactinteraction.com or contact them @ contact@impactinteraction.com.
Visit this site:
http://www.sexualrapportmodeling.com/jump.php?a=2350 (site is either inactive or no longer relevant)
Daniel:
If you are looking for a wing and you are a guy from Romania, you can check on our forums at www.seductierapida.ro/forum and you might find one.
Carlos Xuma:
Time is running short for all of us, no matter how young or old you are. Don't waste precious years learning by trial and error (and most likely not at all). Get the information on how to improve your dating life TODAY. Make the changes you need to make to get the love, s*ex, and relationships that you want and DESERVE to have. Download THE DATING BLACK BOOK right now at: www.datingdynamics.com/ebookstore.htm
Ben () (@.com ):
Ben has a system and set of Tarot Cards that he his going to be launching soon. Find out more at his website.
P.S. Try magic words 'ben' 'rap' and 'nlp'.
A few sites to check out:
Mike Pilinski is the author of "Without Embarrassment: The Social Coward's Totally Fearless Seduction System"... a unique method of meeting girls that will have you making up for wasted time spent living in shy-guy hell from the very first moment you test it out. Check it Out Here => www.highstatusmale.com/.
David Wygant (www.whatsyourexcuse.com & www.mydatingagent.com).
Swinggcat: www.realworldseduction.com
Erick Kand has a new website that showcases Hypnosis Stage Shows for fun and entertainment: www.HypnosisEvents.com
The Foundations of Seduction
Hi, you know something? When it comes to seductionhey, when it comes to ANYTHING--how you feel has a huge impact on the results you get. But the way you feel doesn’t have to be determined by your surroundings, your expectations, others’ behavior, or the tides and stars. You can guide your own feelings. By doing so, you can adjust and enhance your results. You can replace frustration with the satisfaction of tangy, blood-red, salty-sweet resolve. When you can change the way you feel, you can change what you experience… and what you encounter… and then the world stands revealed as something you yourself partially create. Sometimes, to begin claiming the victories you deserve, all you need is a simple little tool: a way of channeling your own emotions. A way of tapping your inner fire. A way of taking that inner fire, and letting it melt your external obstacles. A way of changing all that you feel, about all that you experience. Of course, you may not need or want such a tool. For some, the ability to guide and drive one’s own emotional experience is pretty basic stuff. Some people shrug off rejection, feel wonderful almost all the time, and easily attain their goals. If that’s true for you, and you don’t think you can add to your ability -- well, you may be right. In that case, my new CD may not be for you. On the other hand, should you want a tool meant to ease the transition to seductive success… to productive success… to any kind of success, maybe this new CD can be of use to you. It’s called “Foundations of Seduction”. You can get it for $29.97 plus $5 Priority Mail s/h, by going here: www.sexualkey.com/ Just enter “$34.97” into the FlexPay box and then email me at info@sexualkey.com with your shipping address and a note that you’ve ordered “Foundations of Seduction”. If you’re outside the U.S., please add an additional $5 for shipping. Have fun! JD www.sexualkey.com/
LOUIS AND COPELAND'S "FREEDOM WITH WOMEN" SEMINAR DATES
Freedom with Women seminar in NYC May 14-16
To find out more about "Freedom with Women", contact
davidc@howtosucceedwithwomen.com
Advanced Macking:
In case you want a step by step guide on how to get into one-night stands, check out Anthony Berger's Advanced Macking manual. What makes it unique is that it is engineered towards making it happen the same night you meet them. To learn how to persuade women back to your pad, check out his site: www.advancedmacking.com/Discount.htm
Michael:
If you want to improve not only your game, but also your understanding of women on a deeper level, so that you can have more successful relationships, you've got to come out to my Live Dating Wizard Seminar in downtown Toronto, February 21st and 22nd. It will be two FULL days of non-stop IMMERSION giving you a whopping,eye-opening insight into how to be successful with women on a whole new level.
This is going to be a special seminar where Smooth, the President of the Toronto Lair, will enrich the seminar as a guest speaker. Smooth will lend his rich experience and expertise in several areas, including TONS of experience in real seductions of hotties that are met online.
To learn more about this special seminar, go to:
And follow the "Seminars" link.
And if you haven't downloaded my eBook, "The Dating Wizard: Secrets to Success with Women", then that's the place to get started.
This book is meant for today's situation with women in the Western world. I give you step-by-step details on how to approach women, how to get instant dates, how to get physical, and how to sustain her interest if you desire a relationship. Best of all, you won't even have to be a jerk to OUTDO the jerks!
Download it now at:
And follow the link to "About The Dating Wizard"
FREE HYPNOSIS MINI-TUTORIAL
The UltimateSeduction Yahoo group, at groups.yahoo.com/group/UltimateSeduction/ is sponsoring a free one-month mini-tutorial on Conversational Hypnosis. This tutorial, presented by the hypnotist Archangel, is sectioned off into five parts:
1. Trance Words
2. Rapport
3. Persuasion Anchoring
4. Pacing, &
5. Leading
Although less than halfway through, members are reporting some highly entertaining, and some startling, success stories. The UltimateSeduction group has the advantage of having more than a few women on-list, enabling members to get some very pointed straight talk on their techniques. There is nothing to memorize - only a handful of very simple, and very effective, techniques. The group is gaining about 200 new members a week and is lightly moderated.
Anyone may join the tutorial at: groups.yahoo.com/group/UltimateSeduction/
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