I call this my "Have you seen Thomas" opener
NightLight9: Major Mark's seminar schedule for 2002 will include: July 26-28 Montreal no topic yet Oct. 18-20 Austin Texas no topic yet
Cliff's Comment: Let's look for more seminars in Montreal in 2002, right, Ross?
(NightLight9 comments): I've been thinking on this a bit. It seems like "Your right to say yes" has a nice ambiguity in it. That much should make reading this email worth it. In screwing around with this, this is what I came up with. OK this sentence has a ton of NLP
in it: You don't have to say yes, but keep in your mind, your right to say yes. I'm actually thinking this is more powerful to actually use the negative (this goes against what I know of NLP ): You don't have to say no, but keep in your mind, your right to say yes. But I think this is best but is even worse from an NLP standpoint. Keep in mind, your right to say yes, if you want later you can always say no then. That's the best I've come up with so far. Keep in mind, your right to say yes, and if you say yes now, you always have options later. I think other principles of persuasion are very important here: No pressure being the most important.
Brenton (commenting on the above): "You don't have to say yes, but keep in your mind, your right to say yes, or not" Give them the illusion of choice - upturn the tonality of the 'or not', embed the rest of the commands. 'You always have options later' is vague, and causes them to resolve it - hence they have to generate the 'no' option themselves. I think that's worse than explicitly stating it in the sentence (making sure not to make it a command).
Jonathan: See Tom Leykis live stream is at: www.faxpros.com/Stream
HouseOFire: (Commenting on Joseph: "One of Ross's main teachings is that an SSer never gets rejected, he just finds out whether a women has good taste. It might seem arrogant, but it is the truth."):
This attitude may help you, but it is certainly not the truth. Maybe she is a bitch, but maybe you got a predictable response from a woman who isn't a bitch. Thinking to yourself that all the ones that didn't respond well are bitches keeps your focus on your good responses, which may be plentiful enough. But I think the process of improvement works better when you stay cool and objective.
Ross: (Commenting on: "I thought what the fuck, out with it..."I teach guys how to hypnotize and seduce women.""):
Hey! That's MY line!
(Commenting on: "Anyway, I did offer one example while we were killing time...Ross' "caterpillar to a butterfly" story (I think that's on the Masters Series, it's great). Jamie..."Wow"!"): Originally, Dan Scorpio came up with that story. I just improved it.
(Commenting on: "I had just learned Jamie was a very good subject, she dropped. I knew I would have to stay away from anything sexual or overt...this was sensitive territory and Jamie was going to have to connect her own dots. So I launched into a series of random but connected classics like the "hot guy", "romantic hero," etc. The clock was ticking and I had about thirty minutes to kickoff and needed to secure my invitation so I worked in my version of Ross' Blammo (which is still deadly) and I treated it all as an innocent passing of personal philosophy and shit that I had read about...Jamie was hooked."):
Blammo IS mine. I've got a simplified, modified version that works great!
(Commenting on: ""Oh, damn, look at the time...I've got to get home so I can catch the second half of the game." Jamie says "I've got a better idea, why don't you come over to my house and we can watch it together, besides you haven't seen the house yet.""):
Fascinating when the mechanisms they used to AVOID you become the mechanisms they use to get WITH you! AH HA HA HA HA HA!
(Commenting on: "I mulled that over for SO......."Rodeo Pattern"....I think we both came in our pants."):
I don't know the "Rodeo Pattern". Care to share it?
(Commenting on: "While I had her on the ropes, I didn't hesitate to launch into the forbidden "duality of women" pattern followed with several hyper-empiric "demonstrations"...she was in paradise."):
Yeah, that Hyper-empiria just about always does the trick.
(Commenting on: "...and we missed the fucking game..."):
The fucking game? I would say you played and WON "the fucking game". Ha ha ha. Nice ambiguity . They were FUCKING IDIOTS.
(Commenting on: "I suggest to all you white pale ghosts get a nice tan and see what happens. Take time to find a good bed and lotion and undoubtedly you'll see your responses fly."):
My understanding is, at least here in Southern Cal, it's a great way to MEET hot women, because they tend to frequent the tanning salons.
Sumfuka: Where is a good place to meet wings besides that push board or whatever. I mean where do cool twenty something dudes hang out besides bars and work? I am 26.
Cliff's Comment: Where to hang? Good question. A friend of mine recently separated from his wife (dated 3 years, married 12 years) and he's been getting laid a lot since then (I guess about a minimum of 4 times a week since he broke up about 3-4 weeks ago) and I see the key with him as being that he has a very easy going manner, always joking and he's very flirtatious. He always flirted while he was married but didn't follow up on it, but now it's a different story. He told me last night he could get laid every night if he wanted, no problem. The women are after him. While he's a reasonably good looking guy, I am certain it is his attitude with everyone he meets that makes the difference. He doesn't go to bars -- in fact, he works until 8 pm most nights. He calls me once in awhile after work and I join him for dinner (I have usually eaten by then, but he likes a place near me and if I have nothing on I join him). Last night he flirted and joked around with his waitress and she gave him her nu
mber eagerly -- and all it really was was his kidding around attitude.
To be more specific to your question, I also have a bad habit of frequenting the same places and not opening my eyes to the thousands of other places to go in a big city. I remember when some guys came in last summer here and they looked at every place as a new adventure, a place where they wanted to see what was going on. I think you just need to open your eyes as to where to go and to notice everyone who crosses your path as being a possible entree to themselves or other people.
Mark B.: (Commenting on: "I'm curious, what age group are you targeting with your ultra-direct approaches? Do you find that they work better with older/younger girls? It seems that it might be a little too intense for the younger ones, 18-23 or so, mainly the part where you say you want to have passionate nights with them, etc. Maybe I'm wrong?"):
MB: I go for women 25 and older. I have no patience for under 25. Too flaky, too inexperienced, and insecure in general but not always. Direct works no matter what age group, I believe. The main issue is the general flightiness of younger women that occurs regardless of what approach you use.
(Commenting on: "Also, would you do that outside of a bar/club setting? I ask because this approach really caught my attention, it's something that I've been wishing I was able to do but haven't really attempted yet."): MB: Anywhere is fair game except where it can hurt you such as an office setting where you work. I never "dip my pen in company ink," so to speak. But malls, sidewalks, bars, clubs, stores anywhere is fair game.
(Commenting on: "I've always thought to myself, "Fuck wouldn't it be sweet if I could go up to women, no bullshiting, no patterns, no playing hard to get, and just say whatever the hell I want, tell them I'm attracted to them and see what happens..." But this is very against what most PUA 's are teaching here, and what I've been taught."):
MB: My question is what is stopping you from just saying what is on your mind? My search in life has always been for the truth. I attempt to get to the truth by being direct and to the point. Being this way was borne out of frustration with not getting anywhere by trying these so called techniques. To me these so called "techniques" are created in a fashion designed to "better deceive and mislead a woman to thinking you want something else and are about something else while really wanting and being about something else" such as wanting to fuck her but pretending you are cocky, funny, etc. Out of frustration I said "What if I was to just say what I wanted with no bullshit?" I did and it worked over and over again.
(Commenting on: "Sis recommends just casually introducing yourself, making her laugh and being cocky, and acting disinterested and even aloof, creating a little doubt in her mind that you might not really be interested in her. Mystery's method seems somewhat similar, using negs and creating social proof and being entertaining using a rehearsed routine. Your strategy seems so simple I almost can't believe you're getting away with saying the shit you're saying."):
MB: It's extremely simple. I say "Hello. My name is Mark. I could not help but notice you. I think you are stunning." I get her response and then I say "I wanted to let you know that you are hot, I find you attractive and it would be great if we had a chance to get to know each other for the possibility of having great times together and perhaps many nights filled with passion." That's it. Then she will say "I have a boyfriend," " I am married," "It takes time for me before I sleep with someone," "I need to be romanced or know someone better," blah blah blah...... The basis for this approach is that it fishes out the potential from the non potential right away. This approach virtually guarantees that you will encounter resistance but that is the whole point for any resistance she gives you is a way of her telling you what issues you need to address before she sleeps with you or agrees to go out. Most men think that resistance or objections equals rejection and that is why they avoid being upfront in favour of
being more subtle, i.e. cocky, funny patterns, etc. To me when a woman says "I need to get to know a guy better," she is telling me what it will take to get her and more importantly she is not saying "fuck off, asshole" which is rejection. Objections and raising of concerns are not rejection. Most people, though, see any signs of resistance as rejection which it is not. This, I believe, is where most people draw the wrong conclusions and favour being anything but upfront in the hope of warming her up to you thus avoiding any resistance later. In my way, you still have to warm her up but you do it after you make your intent known and this is where I can be cocky, funny, use patterns, etc. The advantage to my method is that at least you know what you need to do and you also know whether she is open to your initial suggestion - this is the key for you do not want to waste your time if she is not at all interested or never would be no matter what you do.
(Commenting on: "Even though it makes perfect sense because you're just being completely honest and hiding nothing. I'd like to get some opinions from you and other people here on why this approach can work when there is no mystery, she already knows you are into her, there's no game playing, no playing hard to get, versus other PUA methods that kind of tap-dance around your true intent"):
MB: We can theorize all we want but all women I have ever slept with or dated I made my intent known right away and then worked from that base. With ones I got nowhere I took my time and hid my true interest only to get shot down while revealing it later. Examples - I meet and slept with a woman within 1 week after meeting her on the street by telling her I want "many nights filled with passion" within 5 minutes of meeting her, she tells me she usually waits about 4-6 weeks before she sleeps with a guy. I sleep with a woman within two hours of our first date when after dinner she says what do you want to do now and I say "fuck your brains out." I meet a woman who says she does not like talking about sex and that is not the way to get her to sleep with me - I mention nothing about sex but just start kissing her and undressing her, I sleep with her the same day. I met an hot exotic dancer feature Ms. Nude Pageant winner and even before she has a chance to say anything I tell her I want to get to know her and ta
ke her out. Two weeks later we go away for a crazy weekend and on and on............
Cliff's Comment: This has always been the case for me as well. If I am not clear about my intentions, I am almost never successful. Letting a woman know where you are coming from (and it's not like you are telling a hot looking woman something she doesn't already know) puts her at ease. I am sure most of us have had the experience of being indirect and getting suspicious looks from them -- I believe that's deserved when you aren't clear. On the other hand, I know guys who only use the indirect approach and do very, very well. You have to use what works for you.
(Mark B. commenting on: "Joseph: It's been a long time since someone with so many limiting beliefs as this has posted on this list. I just had to say something."):
MB: When I hear guys make comments like this I laugh because I know that your opinions are based on what you read and heard about and not real life and real world experience.
(Commenting on: "I think this whole post shows Mark's belief that WOMEN are the prize and not the PUA . I wonder if you have studied any seduction techniques whatsoever or are you just making this up?"):
MB: Yes, to me women are the prize. And why not? Unless you are a model, wealthy beyond belief, or a celebrity you will have to work to get her. I bought SS (ask Ross), Double Your Dating, & Doc Love's "The System." I keep in touch with Dennis Neder almost daily and read his book Being a Man in a Woman's World, as well as How to Succeed with Women by Louis and Copeland and the one by Anthony Badalamenti as well as How to Make Anyone Fall in Love with You (Leill Loundes), Secrets of Seduction, Dating in the 90's and others. I check www.askmen.com and www.sosuave.com everyday and have about 7 years of experience and about 100 women under my belt. So there. But it comes down to being direct, open and realizing that you cannot be everything to everyone and that is fine.
(Commenting on: "When I walk up to a woman, I am not asking her for anything. I am having a friendly conversation, like I would with a man. If I walk up to a man and ask for the time and he says, "Fuck off, asshole," did I get rejected or did I just find out that this is an asshole who I don't want to get to know?"):
MB: You were rejected and you found out he was an asshole. Let's stop kidding ourselves. But it was mostly his problem due to his bad attitude and not yours.
(Commenting on: "If an HB is going to get me attracted to her, she will have to show me some serious personality because looks aren't enough for me."):
MB: Looks do matter to me as well as her personality. I would rather though sleep with a HB10 with a poor attitude than a HB7 with a great one - unfair? Maybe. Do I care? No.
(Commenting on: "If you walk up to what you call an HB10 and try an opener on her, and she's got a 20 IQ, and can't understand what you're asking, do you still get rejected?"):
MB: Well, what if you walk up to a hot babe and she has an IQ of 31.264? You say hello and she walks off but you chase her and tell her you have an IQ of 124. She stops and chats and you go for her number but she takes yours. She says she is busy and has a boyfriend and says she does not have time but smiles then runs off and says she will call you - did you get rejected? What nonsense and who cares? Bottom lines is it went nowhere.
(Commenting on: "One of Ross's main teachings is that an SSer never gets rejected, he just finds out whether a women has good taste. It might seem arrogant, but it is the truth. If a woman is not doing anything, a man comes up to talk to her with a friendly disposition, and she acts like a bitch...then he walks away. He has rejected her because she is a close minded bitch, and therefore there is no point in talking to her. She fucked herself up because of her decadent, self-centered attitude.") :
MB: To me that is the wrong attitude to live with. How do you know she lost out? Good taste in what? You? Maybe you are not her type, or she does not like your hair, or she has a boyfriend or is not into men and being with you would not serve her purpose at the moment. Perhaps being with you would set her back in her mind. You are not the answer to every woman's wish and desire as you might want to believe, only to some women. Ross wants you to imbed that into your head in order to make you feel better about yourself but it does not address the reality that you are not the answer to every woman's wish and neither am I. The moment you accept that you can feel better about being rejected is the moment when you stop taking it personally. In fact, I believe that it's better to assume you are not the answer to every woman's needs, only a select few. This is the truth and when things do not go your way it's easier to accept that you were not what she was looking for. If there was no such thing as rejection we would
not have invented a word for it. I suggest you consider having a little humility.
(Commenting on: "Your comment about Brad Pitt shows that you could know more about women and their attraction process. If Brad Pitt had the limiting beliefs that you had, then he might not be getting laid too much himself. Women aren't dependent upon physical looks for attraction the way men are."):
MB: What you are saying makes no sense to me. When was the last time a woman said "He is so fat and ugly but I feel so good around him that I just want to jump his bones every time I see him." To me it's a package of the physical as well as the emotional just like you would not sleep with a HB10 if she was a total bitch. A guy in the office has a brother who comes to visit him once a month who looks like Alec Baldwin. Whenever he comes in all the women here, about 6 of them all cream their pants and all admit they would sleep with him right away. He does not validate their feelings but just looks hot and they want him.
(Commenting on: "They are attracted first by emotions, not body parts. If I walk up to an ugly wart hog chick, and tell her she has a nice purse, and she acts like a bitch, would you say that I got rejected? I wasn't requesting anything, just making an observation. When I walk away, I have rejected her for being a closed minded sheep."):
MB: Can you honestly say that when a woman meets you for the first time for a few minutes and has no attraction whatsoever you can keep her engaged long enough to develop an emotional connection and that would be enough? NO women I have ever met has admitted that she slept with a guy she was not at least a bit attracted to in some way as long as she was sober. What if you say to her "I am great at validating your emotional needs so date me. Here this is how I can make you feel" - nonsense. There was someone who posted recently who said he was at a club and all the hottest women went home with men of their choosing at the end of the night. Do you think that was a result of them developing a deep emotional connection at the club? They are attracted by the emotions they feel as a result of them feeling good about being attracted to you. Sorry to burst your bubble but all things being equal the more attractive guy will get laid more often than the less attractive guy if they used the same techniques equally well.
But at the same time you do need to address a woman's needs emotionally to keep her around. I suggest you get some more real life experience as opposed to what you get from books and courses.
NightLight9: OK more on (near) kiss openers. I did some more work on this weekend hanging with MTL_PUA. I would guess I kissed about 15 girls in the 4 days we hung out. Quite a few with only a sentence intro. Still not quite a kiss opener (which I and MTL_PUA have done). These were in bars and in the street after the bars let out. MTL_PUA kind of helped me figure out the structure. Walk up with a big smile. Invade her space. Talk slowly and confidently Keep invading her space until you are close enough to put your arms around her. If they look you in the eye, it's over. Lean in. Pick her up off the ground. Turn her a little in the air. Put her down. Kiss her... The talking part doesn't matter too much about what, but be very sexual in your tone and don't use 'lines'. You are making a connection, but the connection is non-verbal. The talking is more just an excuse for the physical communication going on underneath. The picking up off the ground is important, I don't do it every time, but more
often than not and some situations I believe it's required (thanks MTL_PUA for picking up on this and field testing it, BTW). My theory is that doing this causes her to see you as very masculine and breaks the touching barrier in a less sexual way than the direct kiss. (Note: I think that in some case you could even come out and say you have beautiful breasts and touch them after this with no kiss, but I haven't field tested this since I like kissing so much and I know it will fail more than kissing which has never failed after I've picked them up). Two examples (that have some talking because otherwise it reads just like what I wrote above). 1) Walk up to a girl in the street. NL9: In fake French/Italian accent: "Have you seen Thomas?" (accent is important) (I call this my "Have you seen Thomas opener") HBInnocent: No NL9: He was right here... else, this misdirection takes some of the pressure of my approach off> HBInnocent: Really... NL9: Uh, huh, but I don't see him now. watching> What kind of pizza is tha
t? HBInnocent: It's from over there. NL9: Looks good. HBInnocent: Here have some.
NL9: I wonder where he is. That's good pizza. continue natural interaction...>
HBInnocent: What happened to your accent? NL9 Which one?
shirt and rubs back> Kiss her again NL9: That's a cute sweatshirt, I like it not really having conversation>
HBInnocent: I've heard about these 6th Street stories. NL9: Really shirt down some (the draft must have been pretty cold :-)>
up :-)> 2) walk up to girl in street (lots of people around) NL9: That's a cool cowboy shirt. I love the buttons HBCowgirl: Thanks
NL9: Reminds me of one I had when I was 12. Used wear it all the time with this suede jacket that had tassels all over it. HBCowgirl: Really...
NL9: I'm going to spin you. HBCowgirl: What... NL9: I'm going to spin you...
Finally friends drag her away.
More NightLight9 comments: New transition phrase (transition phrases move from casual fluff, to personal conversation and are key in many PU 's for turning the corner). Use this in bars in the city. I call it the "Suburbs Transition:" NL9: Intro HB NL9: Fluff question(s) (not more than two) HB : fluff answers
NL9: We really shouldn't talk right now. I mean, we'll end up talking... and really liking in each other... Hanging out all the time... Then we'll end up falling in love. The sex will be great and before you know it we'll have 2.3 kids... move to the suburbs... And who the hell wants to live in the suburbs." (Note how quickly sex has come up, but in a very non-threatening way. She would have to make a real effort to bring it back to the convo, but it's out there in her head and your conversation. You've demonstrated that you aren't afraid of sex, but you aren't crass or starved for it, just comfortable with it as a natural progression of a relationship) She'll comment on this transition in some way (after she laughs) and now you can talk about personal stuff.
(Nightlight9 commenting on: "Ciz: Anyways, I have managed to keep her intrigued with me by her noticing I am getting all these other girls, but have not managed to convince her to go out with me. What to do???"): Two things: tell her it's great that you have such a good friendship, and that you are lucky you don't fool around. Tell her you used to think she was hot, but you're glad that for whatever reason you never hooked up. Then tell her you love spending time with the women you date, and most of them are interesting but you'd really like to meet the right girl who could be an honest and true girl friend. Don't mention your fidelity (just the potential GF's), it's implied by you saying you want a "honest and true" GF, and it seems contrived if you mention it unless they ask, which she likely will do. If she does, say "Oh, when I've had a girlfriend in the past it's just not been an issue. When I date one girl it's because I wanted to date THAT one girl... That's the whole reason I chose to
get into the relationship in the first place."
(NightLight9 commenting on: "Justin: How do you learn to dance (I have no rhythm); is watching MTV/VH1 good or are there any good Internet resources?"):
Watch BET. Video tape the best rap videos and practice in front of a mirror. Start with the foot work, then add the arms. Keep in mind that dancing is constantly evolving, so if you are going to go dance at hard core hip hop clubs (ones where 90% of the people there are black), you will have to keep up with it. If you just want to go dance at normal dance clubs though, just get somewhere between rave dance and hiphop and you'll be fine.
(Nightlight9 Commenting on: "A guru master: Whenever I model people, I always love it when they talk about their abilities and use the word "JUST" before they describe the skill set. "I could JUST tell". Now my job is to take the verb 'tell' and get them to elaborate, but it's gonna be a challenge because they put the word 'just' in front of it. When they say 'just', it usually means they are at the limit of their world model and will fight me tooth and nail when I ask, "How specifically do you engage in the activity of being able to 'just tell' if she will be receptive to the kiss opener?""):
NightLight9 responds: It gets worse, I'm highly kinesthetic with trailing auditory, finally to visual, so pretty much everything "just happens" for me :-). Anyway, here are some other things that made me think she would be approachable with a direct kiss. She was with a couple that was getting pretty kino . She looked like she was having a lot of fun and would be good natured (I'm not going to kiss open someone with a scowl on their face :-). She was siting in a very open posture (knees turned out from the table, etc.). She was easy to walk up to (the mechanics of this approach demand a clear, unencumbered path and for the most part, girls don't "just end up" that way either). She was hot. Hot (happy) chicks seem to be the most receptive to crazy stuff. (Like my bridal party approach, which is always a VERY aggressive kiss opener and where the idea of the general kiss opener came from.) She was really alert (this turns me on, and my state is obviously important). I do agree there is huge subconscious part of
all interaction, and I think this girl and I would have connected if we had met in a bus station and talked.
(Nightlight9 Commenting on: "A guru master continued: Now, when you ask them, they will give you the answer non-verbally within the first second, and the conscious, verbal answer will be meaningless. Because the skill of 'just being able to tell' is most likely completely unconscious. Too bad I'm not there to make you cough it up......."):
NightLight9 responds: Next time I'm in Montreal, I'd love to hang out. Your stuff is great, and I know I would learn a ton ( I'm definitely an excellent modeler, definitely, definitely an excellent modeler...).
NightLight9 asks a local guru master: When you said,"You need to learn something." "You need to learn how to accept a compliment -- it's a sign of maturity." what tonality/attitude did you use?
NightLight9 commenting on Mark B.'s comments on tanning. I agree that tanning is a great technique. It makes you LOOK healthier with a better complexion and more rugged. (worked for JFK...) It works just as well for women. Don't over do it, but I think it's a great tool. If you ever watched the sex in the 90's series on MTV, some of it was actually pretty useful. They had these two brothers who were total dogs, fucking chicks left and right in their shag van. Total Players , telling women they were Part of Bon Jovi, etc. Anyway, one of the first things that they said to this AFC was "You need to be tanned all year round."
(NightLight9 commenting on: "I just want to maybe find out what she is thinking with out revealing myself outright. Does that make sense? Each situation has different dynamics and this one is no exception. What would you do?"):
You just want to find out what she's thinking??? She's currently NOT INTERESTED. (I think you know that, but...) If she were interested you'd be fucking her right now, instead of posting . You need to change that. Have done any value elicitation? That's the first thing. "So what do you look for in man?" It sounds like you may be too far in LJBF land at this point.
(NightLight9 commenting on: "Joseph: It's been a long time since someone with so many limiting beliefs as this has posted on this list. I just had to say something. I think this whole post shows Mark's belief that WOMEN are the prize and not the PUA . [snip] If Brad Pitt had the limiting beliefs that you had, then he might not be getting laid too much himself."):
NightLight9 responds: Mark claims to get great results. If you don't believe them, say so, but to attack his methods, based on his results, seems out of place to me. He offers his view point which differs strongly from Ross's. That doesn't make it wrong.
(NightLight9 commenting on: :"Joseph: Women aren't dependent upon physical looks for attraction the way men are. They are attracted first by emotions, not body parts. If I walk up to an ugly wart hog chick, and tell her she has a nice purse, and she acts like a bitch, would you say that I got rejected? I wasn't requesting anything, just making an observation. When I walk away, I have rejected her for being a closed minded sheep."):
NightLight9 responds: What does being a sheep have to do with any of this? (Unless you think all people who don't like you are just trying to fit in...) To the point, yes she rejected your offer of friendly conversation. It's fine to frame this as something different because that's a useful model for you, but that doesn't mean someone can't frame it as you being rejected (which most English speakers would consider to be correct). Then you rejected her offer of having a conversation where she acts in a way you don't like. You both rejected each other. You can frame that as just you rejecting it. Fine, live in that model but remember being "crazy" just means that you disagree with most people in a way that they don't accept as viable. Most people would consider your idea of rejection to vary from the accepted definition, and I'm not sure they would say you were any more than deluded though :-) The point is we use models that help. Mark's model seems to work great FOR HIM.
Christos: I noticed a couple of people here asking about how to improve their dancing skills. If you are working in a bar/disco environment then it is essential that you do not jerk around like some busted spring whenever you hit the dance floor. Even for hi energy techno, faster is better than slower if your middle name is not Nureyev. First of all, sign up for a short Tai Chi class. Not only might the teacher be a slinky Chinese babe, but the movements you learn will improve your dance floor technique by 100 percent. It will improve your rhythm, your flow and your confidence. There are only 48 different movements to remember and many translate very well into disco territory. I had an Australian teacher when I was living in the West who looked a bit like Yanni in a Chinese robe. One of the first things he told us was that Tai Chi would automatically affect our dancing skills as a welcome side effect. And he was very right. Now that I live in the East, I no longer study any martial arts but I
constantly get comments on my great dancing. The person that you dance with also makes a difference. Occasionally you will find somebody with whom you naturally click in a choreographic rather than romantic way. Dance with these people whenever you get a chance. Always try to have a few extra moves tucked away for when there is an opportunity to dance on the bar or the tables. Lots of eyes will be on you and this is a great time to impress. But once the rugby team starts dropping their drawers to show off their fat hairy cracks, it's definitely time to get out of Dodge.
NewFlex: Any one ever seen this before? Looks like some hyped up BS to me... Ideas/Comments?
"Seduce Any Woman You Desire in Less Than An Hour...Guaranteed!" "I call it, "The Lazy Man's Way to Seduce Single Women." All you do is simply pop in one of our Subliminal Seduction cassettes and she thinks she's only hearing music, but she's being sexually programmed and stimulated to uncontrollably want to make mad passionate love to you, her subconscious mind is saturated with romantic and erotic thoughts only of you, and she wants to make the first move. " www.getgirls.com/sublim.htm
Franky the Tux: (Commenting on: "Justin: The other day, I entered a hard body contest on college night in a local club; loads of fun - something I'll definitely do it again. However, seeing the winner (and proud wearer of a pink thong) do his thing made me realize that my groove left something to be desired. Does anyone have any experience with this kind of thing? How do you learn to dance (I have no rhythm); is watching MTV/VH1 good or are there any good Internet resources?"): About a year and a half ago I moved to a new city where I didn't know anybody. I also didn't know how to dance a lick except "freestyle" (and maybe the Twist) so I decided to do something about it. Someone suggested I check out a local country music club. I'm from the northeast, I don't do country but I thought, what the hell. One of the things that impressed me was that so many of the dances they did were couple dances - swing, waltz, cha cha, two step. You got to hold a girl in your arms and you coul
d TALK to her while you were dancing. The line dances looked fun, too, and if you were intimidated by the thought of taking a lady out on the floor you could first do the line dances and get used to your body moving to a rhythm. Since everybody is doing the same move you don't have to worry about not being as good or cool looking as everyone else. So that's what I did first and then moved to the couples' dances. The club offered lessons on Wed. and Thur. (most have a similar arrangement) and they were friendly to new people (good for business). After I was comfortable with line dancing, I moved on the couples' lessons. Taking lessons is a great way to meet girls. Even if you're partnered up with someone ugly/old, they have friends/daughters and if you play your cards right you get introduced to them. Girls like a man that is a good dancer (I'm talking specifically about couples' dancing) who can take them out and lead them into doing good feeling things with their bodies. The chance to tie this in with SS / N
LP should be obvious. Now I consider myself to be an intermediate dancer and it's easier to get girls to dance with you if they've seen how good you are out on the floor with someone else. Learning to dance swing at the country club comes in handy at clubs that play oldies from the 50's and 60's (the songs are old, but not necessarily the clientele). The basics in dancing are the same no matter what style you do. So if you get the basics down at a country club and get used to moving your body, you can transfer that to R&B, techno pop, Latin, or whatever you're into. So that's my advice - find a country music club, learn the line dances to start with, then move on to the couples' dances, then transfer some of that skill to other forms of music. Once you learn one dance, the learning curve keeps getting shorter for each subsequent dance since a lot of the moves are the same, it's only the basic steps that are different.
TGB: (Commenting on: Cliff: I tend to go into places and, if asked, I respond that I am waiting for some friends to show up (which is true, only these are friends I haven't met yet...). If you end up spending a lot of time with someone or a group and they ask you later, it is really not unusual that people changed their plans and ended up not coming to a club as they were supposed to. This also goes back to David's rule #1 "who cares what they think?" It really shouldn't make any difference to you."):
NO WAY! Cliff, remember your "I'm sorry we didn't get into heavy kino the day before yesterday and after all it was a lame meeting" supplicating letter?
Cliff's Comment: Sorry, I don't remember that!
TGB Continues: You got off course here, again. At least in regard to Souris' question. Didn't he say he is not completely comfortable being alone in the dark?
Cliff's Comment: I think this uncomfortableness stems from his caring what someone else thinks, otherwise it wouldn't make a difference.
TGB Continues: He did, so you would see an uncomfy guy. No matter what they think, when they are for some time with someone who doesn't feel comfortable when alone left alone by his friends, this is not what we call social proof . It just isn't.
Cliff's Comment: Social proof is not necessary in every situation. Most of the time, personally, I just go up to a woman and don't even think about the fact that I may have no support system in place that offered validation in the immediate circumstances.
TGB Continues: OK Cliffy, you go places and tell people you are waiting for people to show up - apologies for my harsh tone but a much better reply to a lonely question is that he enjoys meeting new people. You know there are your friends and you really, really like them but sometimes you've got to go out and meet someone you don't know. Some people are frightened even by the thought, some by experience but I enjoy to conquer the fear I carry with me when I reach out for someone I am not THAT familiar with but can become. This is true and almost a pattern.
(TGB Commenting on: "Mark B: P.S. I got to give you brownie points for trying. P.S.S. Where to you want to meet for lunch? RP" See, she did not hide or get upset or try to bite my head off or take great offence to what I said but actually appreciated the offer....."):
She is in a situation of accumulating force for future fights with her husband, I believe. You just got some brownie points. Can you spell b-r-o-w-n-i-e p-o-i-n-t? P.S.: Do you know her husband? Does she have a phone line of her own?
(Commenting on: "Ciz: anyone have good NLP / SS messages appropriate to leave on an answering machine of a girl who lives with her mom?"):
Anything that shows warmth, wit and compassion. By the way, I got your photo finished and you look like Naomi Campbell.
(Commenting on: "Wouldn't you like to know. How many guys do you have sex with in a week.?'" She said none, and when asked per month, she said none also."):
You ask the same complex question twice? Which week do you mean?
(Commenting on: "I even was talking to her on the phone once and used this embedded command, "You know, it's interesting, these girls out there just want to use me for sex, Lacey."):
It seems not to be this easy with her? Do you say sex on the phone? I suggest you get in deeper by starting softer. Try to get her in your bed for a massage :-) Maybe she's just not the kind who enjoys being hand-tortured. You know, man, there are folks who just can't relax and let bliss happen for as long as they like. You have little rapport.
(Commenting on: "...'just tell' if she will be receptive to the kiss opener? - If you ask if she is alone her reply is "I'm waiting for some friends," she avoids eye contact and plays with the black straw in her Molotov. Her perfume smells unbelievable. She wears a tight fitting HIM top and has polished fingernails. I won't tell you everything. But another hint: you saw her last week."):
This is pretty basic stuff, but I know that for me fear of rejection has been my #1 challenge that has kept me from moving forward.
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