I wouldn't insult your intelligence with anything as trivial as seduction. BUT...

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Cliff's List Website NEWS:

This is the final format (well, for now, at least) with an "announcement email" going out to all subscribers which lets you know that the latest Cliff's List is now posted on the website AND includes all the text from the latest email. So you will continue to get all the material by email just that it won't have any links in it other than a link to the website where you will be able to see the whole email intact.

The old website will soon be changed to just refer you to the new website, but for the time being there are still some items on there you may want to check out.
www.geocities.com/cliff604/CliffsList.html Please go to the website for a full list of the rules, disclaimers, suggested links and referrals to other seduction sites and explanations of what this list is all about. Seminar, workshop & conference schedules are on the website also, as is a glossary of terms that may be used here that you may be unfamiliar with.

CLIFF'S LIST TECHNICALITIES:
Here is the list of the last 5 emails that were sent out:

1) The waiters came by and started interrupting
2) Just remember it's you're train - she just gets to ride on it.
3) The way I look at it, it's just a question of WHO has the might
4) She mentions the BF, You ignore it.
5) Rather soft and using the teeth and ending with a suction like kiss

Read them at www.cliffslist.com/archives

SPECIAL NOTES:
- All posts you see here have been submitted by the author, or permission granted by the author to be reposted here.
- Please read the promo section as there are usually new things mentioned there in each new email I send out. There are also many non-commercial announcements in there (eg. Lair news). The promo section will soon be transferred to a separate section on the website and will no longer be a part of the main email.
- This email originates in Montreal, Quebec, Canada - see the Lair section to read about activities in this and other cities.

Real Social Dynamics Returns to MONTREAL! New Dates - will be held during the Montreal Jazz Festival which runs July 2-17, 2004.
See below for their full workshop and seminar schedule.

Montreal Seminar - $300 - July 10-11, 2004
Montreal Workshop - $600 - July 9-11, 2004 (NOTE NEW DATES)
Cliff's List is now an RSD affiliate and if you sign up for their workshops and seminars by clicking realsocialdynamics.directtrack.com/ad/1/CD11
you are also supporting this list.

Major Mark Returns to Montreal: *Beyond Seduction In Montreal* -- July 16-18. This promises to be the "inner game" event of the year. Recent information sent out by Major Mark about this seminar promotes the following benefits that you will receive if you attend:

- getting out of your whinny head and living comfortably in the Real World
- blast the negativity out of your past
- tap your inexhaustible reserve of relaxed masculine power
- moving women into the proper place and perspective
- convince your Self that you deserve the women you want
- how to instinctively use the right tool at the right time
- rock-solid control of your own emotions
- instantly shifting from hesitation to relaxed confidence in any setting
- build an irresistible impulse to act now!
- irresistible Charisma generated on demand
- creatively adopt or oppose her own energy
- instantaneous recoveries from unexpected setbacks or "disasters"
- assume new beliefs and unaccustomed behaviours as an act of will
- re-defining Masculinity so it works for you
- adopt the states and traits of the Naturally Seductive Man

For those of you unfamiliar with Major Mark, he co-trained for many years with Ross Jeffries in Speed Seduction seminars and it's a well known secret that he is one of the world's greatest hypnotists.

For more info www.trucor.com.

New Dating/Seduction Seminars & Workshop in Montreal by DOC!
Doc, who many of you know from his all too rare but outstanding posts on this list, on Mystery's Lounge, and the Montreal Lair, is bringing his seminars and speed dating events to Montreal. Previously they were mainly held in Toronto as part of the Learning Annex, Doc is now setting it up here and plans to hold events on a monthly basis.

The website is www.setnalife.com. The first seminars should be held shortly in Montreal. Registrations available on the website. The events are Dating Secrets for Women, a 3 Hour seminar (cost $50) and Dating Secrets for Guys; a Guide to The Art of Dating (also 3 hours and $50). There will also be a speed dating event in the evening for $50. You can contact Doc by email at seduction.school@sympatico.ca

Doc's next round of Seminars started last Sunday, June 6th in Montreal. Full-weekend Dating Makeover workshops will be offered about 2 weeks afterwards (including a half day with a personal stylist, video tape analysis of body language, and live practice sessions with dating coaches beautiful women who will give the guys on the spot feedback on how they come across and what to improve). Other Montreal dates for June, July and August will be coming up soon. As well, there are some Toronto and New York dates for this summer that will soon be posted. If there is a group of 10 or more guys interested in a seminar (or 5 guys for a workshop, he would consider making a special trip to their city).

This is a great opportunity to learn from a real master.

RL:
So, last week I took the RSD bootcamp over in the Project Hollywood Mansion. To put my review in context, let me give some background on myself. I've been learning this stuff for almost 3 years now. Until then, I had had some success with women, usually taking "what I could get" and getting "lucky" from time to distant time. But I never had any type of success that made me happy, or even content enough to date a girl longer than 4 months. And if I did want to date her longer than that, I'd "screw it up" by becoming a wuss or AFC. My number was under 10, and except for 1 or 2, I wasn't truly happy with any of them. So, after moving to LA 6 years ago, I started listening to Tom Leykis on 97.1, and his "Leykis 101" made me realize that I was putting women on a pedestal, and treating much better than they deserved. I learned simple rules there, like "don't buy a woman a drink", "don't spend more than $40 on a date", and "don't compliment a woman". All good stuff, but it wasn't enough. I then came across Doc Love'
s stuff. Here was some added value. "Be a challenge", and if the woman's "Interest level" wasn't high enough, don't bother. Ok, that was better than where I was at, but it wasn't directly applicable. In fact, while Doc Love had some good stuff, my dating life didn't improve. Then, somehow (don't remember how), I got on DYD's mailing list. I kept all the e-mails and read them voraciously. DYD's stuff made sense. I then took the DYD seminar in January of 2003. It added on to other stuff I had learned, but it also explained the WHY? of the whole thing. Why were women attracted to some guys and not others? Why are nice guys always finishing last? Why is it, when I meet a girl whose birthday happens to be a few days later, and I buy her a card, even though we just met, thinking that she'd like it, why does that actually RUIN my chances with her? All explained through DYD, and of course I learned the concept of cocky & funny. Great concept...and one I could easily embrace. I tried it. And pissed off a LOT of women.
I still remember one waitress grabbing me after I turned around and telling me that she knows I'm trying to be funny but to STOP IT, cuz I was just being a dick and pissing her off. And I still cringe (a bit) when I think about the girl I pissed off whose friend came to me and said "Why did you say that to her? You've ruined her night." Ah yes...I pissed off a lot of girls while working on c&f. The trick: make sure there's enough F with the C! But I got e-mail addresses. Which led to numbers. Which led to flaking. Now, these girls whose e-mails I got were NOT cold approaches. I met these girls dancing, so already had a social context in which to meet them and talk - the exact context that is missing when doing cold approaches. So, I still had never REALLY done a cold approach. Then came the Mystery seminar back in April of this year. What a mind-fuck!! My reality was COMPLETELY fucked up for like a week. (My reality has since adjusted a bit.) I even woke up - literally - from a nightmare of clashing realities
. It was like my mind itself was puking in the middle of the night, cuz Mystery took all my past successes and failures with women and said "Here!! THIS is why that worked...THIS is why that failed....Now, just do that same stuff with women you want, and you'll get them." And it was so far removed from the soulmate-searcher, happily-ever-after, once-upon-a-time guy that I was 5 years ago that my mind reeled.
And yet, I STILL couldn't do approaches. Not Mystery's fault. He said himself, that you can't "throw money at the problem" that you HAVE TO do your approaches. You have to do 12 approaches, 4 nights a week for a minimum of 6 weeks. Only then will you start to get the skillset.
But there I was, cinco de mayo at an Irish pub (don't ask), 2 women behind me, and me unable to turn and say "Hey guys!". Like a tangible force - *cough* *fear* *cough* - was stopping me. So, 2 1/2 months later, there I was, taking a day off from work, so I could go to Project Hollywood and hook up with RSD so they could teach me how to approach. After 3 years, countless e-mails, PLAY, Cliff's List, ASF, lots of CDs and 2 seminars, I was there so these guys could teach me - and get me - to do cold approaches.
Day 1 -
When you think RSD, who do you think of? For me, it was mainly Tyler and Papa. So, when I got there and found out my instructor was Xaneus, I was actually a bit worried. I mean, c'mon, the bootcamp is $1500...let me say that again...FIFTEEN HUNDRED MOTHER FUCKING DOLLARS...that's a shit load of money. So, they're sticking me with Xaneus??? who a) is some guy I never heard of, b) and where the fuck are Tyler and Papa?? At this point, I don't say anything, cuz I'm so fucking nervous about having to do approaches that that kinda superseded any other thoughts in my head. So, we head off to an outside mall called The Grove in Hollywood (I think it was Hollywood). If you've been to Disneyland, think of Main Street...a long street that ends in a cul-de-sac and has a trolley. With a lot of stores and hot women walking around.
I tell Xaneus that I've never done a cold approach, so could he please do a few so I could see how it's done. Within the first 5 minutes of him approaching, any skepticism or concern I had of Xaneus being my instructor was gone. This guy is GOOD. Is he the best in RSD? Don't know. Is he as good as Tyler? Don't know. But he's fucking good. And for the level I'm at, he was a GREAT instructor. We hook up with the other student and Deep6. Deep6 takes a few minutes and teaches me the David Bowie opener? *groan* Do people really DO the David Bowie opener? Do girls KNOW who David Bowie is? Hasn't it been done to death? Deep6 tells me not to worry about any of that. We then walk into the Pottery Barn and Deep6 tells me I'm doing the next approach.
It's a single, and I was S-C-A-R-E-D. I went skydiving back in January for the first time from 15,000 feet. I'm pretty sure my anxiety level was just as high when Deep6 was telling me I was next.
He pushed me - LITERALLY PUSHED - me into the set.
So I go and approach and TOTALLY FUCK IT UP. Hysterical. And my leg was shaking afterwards. Too damn funny.
But - I needed this.
I did an approach.
Thanks to Deep6 and Xaneus, I did 2 more fairly soon and no longer shook afterwards. By the end of the day I had done 8 approaches. Some singles, some walking 2 sets and at least 1 sitting 2 set. So what did I see? I saw Xaneus go into a set after the other student approached and they both ended up sitting down with the 2 chicks. Xaneus also approached a seated 2-set that I had JUST FINISHED APPROACHING. He asked if they had been nice to me and ended up talking with them for like 10 minutes.
Xaneus number closed 2 that I can remember from that day (one being a really hot 20-year old blond), but ok, so I'm not paying $1500 bucks for Xaneus to number close, right? So what did I get out of that first day.
Guys...I fucking approached. that was BIG for me. I've been a fucking keyboard jockey - OUT OF FEAR - for the past 3 years.
Within a few hours, Xaneus and Deep6 had me do 8 approaches. That's fucking phenomenal for me.
Ok...so the first night comes and I get to see Deep6 and Xaneus peacocked - picked up some tips from watching them in that aspect. I did 8 more approaches that night and by the end of the night had a list of routines and little "tidbits" that I saw them do.
A few notes from this night:
A) I've had a concern that I'd approach a set and they would've already heard the opener or the routine. Well, this happened when Deep6 was doing a routine. One girl said "listen to this!" to her friend then later said she'd heard it before and it was funny. So my concern is pretty baseless mainly because...
B) These guys plow ahead with material even when they're not getting IOIs. Places where I - as a newbie - would've ejected, they just kept going and would end up breaking through and all of a sudden the group's engaged.
This actually happened to me...I approached a set, and after about 30 seconds, Deep6 joined the set. I got to watch him from there, and at one point, it stalled. Deep6 turns to me and tells me to do another opener...so I turn to the 2-set and run an opener on them. All of a sudden, bam! We're back in set, and the girls were engaged.
C) One of the most amazing things that I saw was an AMOG stopped Xaneus while we were looking for another set. I guess he wanted to make Xaneus look bad - I don't know why. But Xaneus was peacocked and had been getting IOIs from this hottie in a set close-by a few minutes earlier. So the AMOG, trying to tool Xaneus says "Hey, my friend wants to meet you." and Xaneus says some c&f comment and meets the girl. Within seconds he's getting IOIs. He's getting kino - this girl was REALLY into him. And he hadn't actually DONE anything. He was just giving off the right vibe, and was peacocked, and was showing social proof. Just amazing!
Day 2 -
Did 11 daytime sets. The anxiety was still there but DRAMATICALLY reduced from the previous day. Again Deep6 and Xaneus both pushed me - literally, at times - into set. And they kept fixing things....I needed to add false time constraints...I needed to sit down WHILE talking...I needed to make sure that I didn't stand near 1 specific chick but rather in the middle of all of the set (I kept doing this incorrectly and I'd lose the interest of the girl(s) farthest away from me)...and I needed to stack. I saw the other student open a couple of cute goth chicks in a store on Melrose (one of 'em was really hot), and it went EXTREMELY well.
At one point, he took out his cheat sheet - while still talking - looked at it, put it back in his pocket, all the while continuing to talk. When it was time for the student to try and #close, Deep6 wrote "PHONE NUMBER" on a yellow sticky and walked behind the girls and held it up to make sure the guy would see it. He number closed them!
That night, we hit a couple of clubs on Sunset. Again, I approached several sets (11 or 12) and I'd either approach and eventually eject, or one Deep6/Xaneus would come by and join the set. When they'd do this, they'd turn to me and tell me what routines to run in front of the sets. This would keep me in the set and would force me to go outside my comfort zone (otherwise, I probably would've ejected).
At one point an AMOG entered a set, and Xaneus joined the set to blow him out. Once he was gone, Xaneus brought me back into the set, said "split" and I was then engaging the target while he was occupying the UG. Which was great cuz I got to see HOW wings should help out, which was additional info I didn't quite have before.
Deep6 also pushed me into my first mixed set which immediately got me some IOIs - unfortunately she was a UG.
Overall, day 2 really allowed me to see
a) What a wing should do
b) More practice stacking and using routines - as the instructors kept telling me what to do next WHILE IN set.
c) I also got to see some major tight game run by Deep6 who joined a set I had opened (but stalled), and it was un-frickin'-believable. If I had been a regular guy, I would've been blown out within 30 seconds. As it was, I saw these 2 girls basically BOTH fall for Deep6, and I saw him create drama plotlines to both engage the target more but also show the UG that he was interested in the target and not her.
Day 3 -
Day 3 was different. Tyler and Xaneus had previously run game on 2 blondes they met somewhere. And they were coming over for a "Day 2". So Tyler told us to stick around and watch. Definitely a learning experience...I saw him do story-telling, and also just not give a fuck while hanging out with these chicks. he didn't give off any sort of supplicative vibe or any sort of vibe that didn't show he was aloof and just hanging out. He also wanted to make sure that I got something out of watching this. At one point, I walked back into the Mansion and Tyler (who was getting ready to leave) told me to just go back and talk to the girls...that I should get "practice talking to hot chicks", and to not worry about fucking it up for him. He seemed more concerned about me getting something out of the experience than whether or not he did - which I appreciate.
So our daytime sarging was now Deep6, Xaneus, Tyler, Playboy, 2 students, and the 2 blondes. Tyler put the blondes in my car as we drove there. He called them up and told them to give the other student and me confidence. It was definitely interesting. He had told them that we were going out to find "a girlfriend" or to find "true love" - something like that. Now my anxiety level was through the roof, and my comfort zone was busted and almost beyond repair by now. I had gotten used to sarging with Deep6 and Xaneus pushing me, now I also had Playboy and Tyler and 2 blondes with me. I was sweating like crazy. And actually I turned down a few approaches, but Tyler got in my face (in a good way - and I appreciate it) and told me that it was no big deal, that I had to get out there. It was like having a physical trainer that wasn't gonna let you cheat on your reps. And again, I appreciated it.
One set I approached said they had been just asked the same question, and what the hell was going on? I freaked out (inwardly, but not outwardly) and Xaneus joined the set and just plowed ahead with routine after routine after routine. The girls never found out what we were doing, and I got to see a major fear of mine actually occur and handled coolly and calmly by Xaneus. I also saw what I considered the second tightest-run game all weekend...a really cute 19-year old. It was just perfectly run. Massive IOIs and Xaneus # closed...and oh yeah, she was working there (which I tend to think is a bit harder).
I got to see more Day 2 stuff from Tyler with the 2 blondes - like massaging the back, role-playing, as well as a gay plotline which was....um...very well played, Ty!
Playboy got me into a few sets and worked some magic on a girl who I had approached and who said she was in a pissy mood cuz of her boyfriend. Playboy just talked to her and then left me alone with her...she took a few steps forward, brightened up, and started engaging me. It was pretty phenomenal.
I saw some great body language from Playboy which I'm now trying to emulate, and again I was reminded that these guys are just leaning the fuck back and being chill and chatty. They're just having fun, and not making a big thing about talking to these women. They're just talking to them, and they don't come across like they're trying to score a number or anything.
Besides that, I learned:
a) take everything in stride...and just keep running material. At some point you'll get them hooked in (the "hook point")
b) if you're in the middle of a routine, and you get interrupted, DON'T go back to the routine. just let it go. It conveys the wrong things if you go back to it.
Night time again was Deep6, Xaneus, Tyler, and Playboy. They were making sure we were opening, and at the end, when the place was closing, it was like rapid-fire opening.
I did get massive IOIs from this one girl, who came back to reengage me and who didn't leave when her friends came back to try and drag her away (note: it was my fault that the friends tried to drag her away as I did a back-turn on one of the girls too early in the set).
Afterwards, back at PH, I asked Deep6 and Xaneus to give me some final feedback which I was able to get typed.
And recently, I received an e-mail from them with additional feedback.
So....bootcamp is over and what do I think?
Well, let me get some negatives out of the way:
1) I thought Tyler and/or Papa would be teaching the bootcamp. I was surprised when I got there to find that Deep6 and Xaneus would be teaching instead.
2) I thought we'd have the chance to go shopping on Melrose, and we didn't really do that. We DID go in some shops and took advantage of that time to look at some stuff, but I was under the impression that we'd actually take time to do that.
3) I'm not a PUA yet.
Ok...so that last one isn't fair, is it? I mean, I can't expect to take one bootcamp and all of a sudden be f-closing on a nightly basis. Maybe if I had come INTO the bootcamp with 250-500 sarges under my belt, I'd be closer to that.
But the truth is - before this, I wasn't able to approach a 2-set that was standing right behind me. Now? Well...I'm still scared and I'm still reminding myself to just relax and be chill, but I did 4 approaches last night, and 1 earlier today. Not a lot?
Yeah...well...considering that's 5 approaches more than I did the past 5 years, I think I'm on my road to becoming a PUA.
That said, here are some positives.
Sure, Papa didn't teach and Tyler only taught the 3rd day...but I got SO FUCKING MUCH from Deep6 and Xaneus that I'm EXTREMELY HAPPY with the bootcamp. These guys' games are T-I-G-H-T. I saw them do shit that fucking amazed me (and one thing that even amazed THEM a bit, I think).
As instructors, they kept giving me suggestions, corrections, kept PUSHING me (again, sometimes literally) into set, would join me to help me in a set and to show me what it's like to run solid game, and would tell me what to say IN FRONT OF THE set.
They took a keyboard jockey with no sarges under his belt, and got him to do 54 sets in a 3-day period.
Am I opening now? Yes.
Am I getting IOIs? Not yet...but I know what i'm doing wrong. I know that I'm forgetting my time constraints, that I'm not stacking enough, ejecting instead of plowing through, and, more importantly, I know I'm still "thinking too hard" - still considering each approach as an approach and not just a guy being cool, chill, and chatty.
And I know this becuz of the RSD bootcamp.
And I'll finish this long review with this: There are other people I plan to study from...I plan on taking Mystery's workshop, I'd like to take a Badboy workshop at some point, and will continue to be open to learning from solid PUAs. But I also DO PLAN to take the RSD bootcamp AGAIN. I'll have completely different sticking points, but look forward to getting help from Deep6 and Xaneus.
Email me if you have any questions: toonman33@yahoo.com

Shane:
(Commenting to Mark B.) I read your bit about the transformation the lady received physically and how it took away what hindered her true self from being seen. You mentioned "I feel it's important to shed ourselves of anything that prevents our real value from emerging... lack of consideration for others..." This topic has me going from one side to the other for too long and I'd like to for once get my beliefs and perspective straight. I continue to see those who lack consideration for others get the good looking girls, and seem to have what appears to be a happier life. Now I can put two and two together and say that the reason this is so is because the qualities that they have on top of the lack of consideration for others makes up for that minor flaw, and that the cognitive aspect that gets the person to lack consideration in the first place bleeds into other areas in their lives that are considered "strengths" and are attractive to girls. But something just isn't clear enough for me to just say "Okay, thi
s is why that is so." And I'd just like to know when is consideration for others sexy, gets you the girls, and doesn't get you walked all over? And when is consideration for others not sexy..a turn off to girls, and makes one a "weak" person? There seems to be a difference, and I could analyze this on my own, but from the way you've typed up your posts, it seems like you've got the correct perspective already, and would be a catalyst for my truly understanding this.

Mark B. responds:
First, I think it important to understand that consideration for others also implies consideration for yourself, although the former statement within itself does not say that. This means going for what you want as well as giving something back in return to the woman in question. Say we are dealing with sex - you want to sleep with her and she seems reluctant. What do you do? You tell her you want sex from her - that is asserting your needs, but you also tell her that if she does not want to right now, that is OK with you. Bulldozer guys, irrespective of what they say, rarely get the girl as getting the girl is a gentle dance between her needs, the way she goes about giving into a guy, and your physical desire for her. It's a back and forth dance of TWO people.
With respect to guys who supposedly get the hot looking women, I think it's important to realize that these guys go for what they want, they take action and make their intent known to the woman in question. These women find these men appealing physically as well finding their courage attractive. To the more timid guy, the shyer type, they may appear inconsiderate, due to the different perspective of the timid or shyer guy, but to the woman in question they posses the right mix of asserting his needs and considering hers. In other words what you may see as inconsiderate behaviour, appears to be just fine with our hottie in question. And ultimately it's what she thinks of how you behave that matters, she makes the decision to sleep with you, not your male friends that question your "jerk" behaviour. In fact I believe women want and need open men that tell them what they want as that frees women to feel confident about fully expressing their sexuality.
And there is no final answer to this question of clarity. The question becomes one of perception and paying attention to what is happening in the moment and responding in kind, adjusting as you go along, having a clear sense of what is happening. Reggie Jackson holds the MLB record for most strikeouts with over 2,500 yet he is known as Mr. October with well over 500 home runs. Only a few purists know he holds the strikeout record but most everyone knows of his home run heroics. My point is that you nor I nor anyone will each and every time successfully connect with every woman we see, but it's important to keep going back and swinging with courage, adjusting your swing according to what they throw you.
With respect to showing value I believe that when it's there it simply comes out on its own through our subtle non verbal behaviour, more so than what we say. Being calm, cool, collected, emotionally together, having the ability to go for what you want and make your needs known to a woman tends to within itself show tremendous value. On the other hand selfishness, criticism, pushiness and other such behaviour conveys desperation, lack of confidence, immaturity, etc. If we have something to offer her, the formerly mentioned negative qualities can easily get in the way of her seeing out true positive self - one bad apple can spoil the entire barrel.

Gregory Rasputin:
A local guru master asked for advice on handling moodiness. I'm assuming that the kind of moodiness that we're talking about is combined with snottiness, where the critical spoiled brat in her comes out. I have some friends who will yell back at her, and "take no shit from her", but what works perfectly for me is to just be understanding. Once I'm sure that she doesn't really have a problem with me but is just moody, I assume that she was having a bad day, or is on her period or something. This is my method: I wait for her to just go off at me, let her vent and give me her big speech. I say nothing. I make no attempt to ignore her, I just simply don't take her seriously. After she's had a few minutes to calm down (and feel stupid for snapping at someone who's not fighting back), I'll say with an understanding tone "did you have a bad day, hun?" This will interrupt her pattern so much that she will not keep snapping. Usually, she'll just tell you why she had a bad day, at which point you can interrupt that and
explain how her day is gonna be awesome now cuz she's with you. The language itself must be extremely gentle, but the point itself is that you're not even considering what she's yelling about, simply for the reason that she's yelling. If she's still bitching, you can throw her off by dropping the gentle tone, and with a serious face saying "Look, if there's a problem, I'm willing to talk it over, but we'll only do that once you start acting like an adult."

Giacomo Casanova VII:
> Smooth (President, The Toronto Lair - TOPs) The Monkey Swing - Every Man Can Have a Hottie
Step Four: Get to know her better and better and begin the Boyfriend Destroyer routines on her. You ..snip... begin to CRAVE your time together. The conversation will become easier and she will start to tell you more and more and more about herself. ... As time wears on she will begin going home and day dreaming about that incredible guy who makes her feel so good at the bar a few times per week. Wondering where you are when you don't come in and elated when you do.

Giacomo Casanova VII: I've seen step 4 work all too well. A friend of mine is a pretty cute bisexual chick (we'll call her cute bi). She had a stalker, an older woman with a failed marriage and HORRID AFC tendencies. The AFCness MAJORLY turned her off. Plus the older woman was lumpy and dumpy (so we'll call her lumpy and dumpy). Nothing to look at.
But they were friends and hung out a lot. Until lumpy and dumpy found a girlfriend who is also friends with cute bi. Cute bi became majorly jealous, which was exaggerated because the new girlfriend was also her friend. The new couple talked to cute bi a little bit too much, without giving many details. This forced her to fill in the blanks mentally. And we know women have dirty minds even if they deny it.
Sure enough, cute bi became convinced she was in love with lumpy and dumpy, and started rationalizing L&D's AFC tendencies as HER fault. She didn't let L&D know where she stood (bullshit), she sent mixed messages (bullshit^2).
So what did I learn by watching this?
1. Familiarity is extremely insidious. It may allow an AFC to be taken for granted, which is a good thing, as you'll see below.
2. Jealousy is EXTREMELY powerful.
3. That which is taken for granted is a shock when it's no longer there. Shock is a door to suggestibility, BTW.
4. Combining jealousy with a shock is exponentially powerful.
When you're in the friendship zone, the common advice to GFTOW. Common wisdom says that you can't dig yourself out of the friendship zone. After seeing this, I'd say it's just a matter of HOW.
L&D is the absolute LAST person I'd see hooking up with cute bi. She's AFC, controlling, manipulative, and annoying. Cute bi would complain about her to me quite often. Based on what I've seen, I wouldn't be surprised if step 4 works even if you DO display AFC tendencies. But if you don't, it's that much more powerful.
You're on to something, Smooth. Being the friend doesn't necessarily boot you out of the lover role.

Mark B.:
Over the last 3 years I bought and read various systems, SS, DYD, Swingcat's stuff and many other books, articles, posts, and others. I have come to realize that, in terms of the big picture, all of these systems have one thing in common - they all offer a way of communicating with women. Women by nature tend to be verbal creatures and simply having a discussion of the extent of their relationship and sexual interest can spark that desire within them and impose their feelings upon the guy in question.
I have a few friends that come out with me when I go clubbing. They rarely talk to women and inevitably at the end of the night when we leave, they end up cursing and swearing how women in Toronto are non-responsive. Nothing could be further from the truth, though. Their way of "connecting" consists of trying to make eye contact with women and by virtue of eye contact they expect a woman to run over, start talking and gush over him. But things just don't work that way. While not bad looking, these guys simply do not have the look where simply on the basis of their looks alone they could attract women.
The few times they actually developed some sort of a conversation with a woman, they failed to ask for a number and allowed her to slip away. But while engaged in a conversation they do actually manage to develop some sort of a connection - they just failed to follow up. They would be better served by taking more responsibility for their success on themselves.
On another note. I have another friend who is 29 and has only been with one woman in his life. They have been together for 5 years. She is 10 years older than him, divorced with 2 kids and really average looking. He has tried to meet and date other women with no success whatsoever, coming to the point where he has resigned himself to settling down to be with this one woman in question. Despite that, when we are out together he shows me several women with whom he would like to connect, yet due to his failures of the past, does not approach.
Recently he began running 4 times per week. He started running in order to oxygenate his brain as he prepared for his CFA exam, one which he has failed twice. After not seeing him for 4 months I saw him the other day. He looked lean, trim and had that glow to his body and manner. While walking around downtown Toronto I noticed several woman looking at him, trying to make eye contact for that split second longer than someone would look at another in simple passing. He failed to notice these looks, and when I pointed them out he shrugged them off - he has never experienced anything of this nature before. I told him he looks better and has that glow to him, which women find attractive and that now he can finally go out there and get the type of woman, age wise and looks wise, that he desires and that would be beneficial to him.
All the more reason to take care of oneself physically as I have been saying for years...

Guru master:
I have been dating this feisty feminist chick for a while now and have read some of the stuff she has suggested for my game. She is great and even helps me with my PU material. So she has me reading stuff like Bitch Magazine, etc., etc., to learn about the feminist (female) mind.
The gist of it: The feminist mind believes that men have too much power and deserve to be punished.
Anyway, GREAT for game, as I can talk about all these women's studies and know more than most women do about all this. Talking about how men repress women, etc., has been getting me ?IN? a little quicker these days. Of course I'd rather avoid completely logical/controversial stuff, but rather am putting together some value conveying routines.
Anyway, we rented this movie the other day and I was FLABBERGASTED. So I decided to just post the best lines from the movie here and see what we can come up with. I am sure we can synergize and spawn some MONEY routines out of this shit.
The Witches of Eastwick
NOTES
1st meeting with Cher:
(Cher is walking down a small country road and Jack Nicolson walks right by her with a set of binoculars for bird watching. As he walks just a little bit faster than her, he says:)
Jack: ?Are you looking for me, or is this just a happy coincidence??
Cher: ?Actually I was just out here??
Jack: (Interrupts) ?Just looking. Well, too bad. Haven't seen any (type of bird) Snowy-Ingrens out here, have you??
Cher: ?No.?
Jack: ?Neither have I. Not that I'd know a ?Snowy-Ingrens? if I was pissing on one. YOU WANT SOME LUNCH??
Cher: ?No, I think it's a little late in the season.?
Jack: (Totally shocked by her reply) ?For LUNCH?!??
Cher: ?No, pissing on birds?
Jack: (Smiles broadly as if thinking, ?I got me a LIVE one!? and offers his hand) ?Darryl Hanhorne.?
Then he takes her to lunch.
Lunch with Cher scene:
Jack: (Commenting on weirdly-dressed good-looking waiter who sets down food and leaves) ?Interesting, huh??
Cher: ?Oh yes.?
Jack: Fidel. That?s his name. Women love him. They?re crazy about him! HE HAS A BIG SCHLONG! H-U-G-E. Well, there you are, scale against size? I don't know, maybe it's a masculine thing. They say women don't care. I'm sort of in the middle myself, how about you??
Cher: ?How about me WHAT.?
Jack: ?You see, women are in touch with different things. That's my opinion. I know it's not a fashionable opinion right now but (SLAMS fist on table) FUCK IT? I KNOW WHAT I SEE.
I see men running around trying to put their dicks into everything, trying to make something happen. But it's women who are the source, the ONLY POWER. Nature. Birth, re-birth. Clich鿠ClicháMBUT TRUE.
Cher: ?Why are you telling me this??
Jack: ?Because you're an honest women and I'm being honest with you. I like women. I admire them. BUT? if you want me to treat you like a DUMB TWIT, I will. But what's the point? You have brains, Alex. More than brains! And you don't even know it, do you? Well, most women do not..
Cher: ?Are you married??
Jack: ?GOOD QUESTION!!! You see?? BRAINS!! ?The answer is NO. I don't believe in it. Good for the man, LOUSY for the woman. She dies. She suffocates? I've seen it. And the husband runs around complaining to everyone that he's fucking a dead person, and HE'S THE ONE WHO KILLED HER. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
Where?s your husband?
Cher: ?Dead.?
Jack: ?Well, sorry. But you're one of the lucky ones. When a woman unloads a husband, or a husband unloads a woman, however it happens Death, Desertion, Divorce? The three D?s? When that happens, a woman BLOOMS. She blossoms, like flowers, like fruit? she is ripe. THAT'S the woman for ME!?
Cher: ?Are you trying to seduce me??
Jack: ?I wouldn't dream of seducing YOU, Alexandra. I wouldn't insult your intelligence with anything as trivial as seduction. BUT?ummm? I WOULD LOVE TO FUCK YOU.?
Scene with Susan Sarandon
Jack: Did you know the entire witchcraft scare has been traced back as far as the 14th century and was started by the medical profession? That's right. They were trying to get midwives out of the child-birthing business. That's what they were, most of the women that they burned. Midwives.
Sarandon: ?Is that true??
Jack: ?You better believe it. Just another example of male-dominated professional society exploiting females for their own selfish purposes. Men are such COCKSUCKERS, aren't they??
Sarandon: (Deer in the headlights)
Jack: ?You don't have to answer that. They're scared. Their dicks get limp when confronted by a women of obvious power and what do they do about it? Call them witches, burn them, torture them, until every women is afraid. Afraid of herself, afraid of men, and all for what? (Leans in, and grins) Fear of losing their hard-on! (Laughs uproariously).
Let's go play some music.
(They play some music, and he takes on the teacher frame who's helping this poor repressed woman to express herself. Frustrated with her, he lifts up her skirt, past her knees, and goes:)
Jack: ?TRY IT. Just try it.?
Sarandon: ?NO, I can't?
Jack: ?Let it go. What are you afraid of?? You have great passion in you, let it out! I CAN TAKE IT. I WANT IT.?
(She plays the song and fucks his brains out)
Pool scene with Michelle Pfeiffer
(This scene is funny as it's straight out of TD's secret society paradigm. This is Michelle Pfeiffer (MP) interacting alone for the first time with Jack after she knows he has just fucked Cher and Sarandon)
MP: ?Are you going to seduce me too??
Jack: ?Yes.?
MP: ?How??
Jack: ?I don't know?
MP: ?Well I should warn you, I get pregnant. I mean I get pregnant all the time. At the drop of a hat, I get pregnant.?
Jack: (Looks like he is HAPPY about this, which is something I do in set if the girl brings up that she has a kid) ?Well I'll keep that in mind.?
MP: ?That doesn't bother you????
Jack: No
MP: ?You're not like other men, are you??
Jack: I'm not.
MP: ?Most men? well, my HUSBAND, trying to keep everything under control, pretending everything is normal, always very rational, always an explanation for everything. Men need that, don't they? They need to feel that everything is solid, and the truth is, life just isn't like that.
Jack: ?Certainly not with you three ladies around? (and he swims away. Of course, she swims after him)
MP: ?I don't think we're so different than other women, I mean, women are more natural, aren't they? And nature is crazy no matter what the science books tell you. So I don't mind.
Jack: ?Mind what??
MP: ?I don't mind when peculiar things happen. It's natural! Because the world is a very peculiar place.
Jack: ?And you're a very peculiar person?
MP: (her buying temp spikes and she thanks him)
Jack: ?I'd LOVE to be a woman!?
MP: ?You would??? Really? WHY????
Jack ?Just look at what you can do! With your BODIES? you can make BABIES and make MILK to feed the babies? I mean, if I could do that? (goes quiet, sullen)
MP: ?WHO ARE YOU?!??
Jack: ?Anybody you want me to be? (and he kisses her)
~kiss
Towards the end of the film the girls all hate him (he is the devil, after all) Here's some fucking tight phone game though:
Jack: ?Hi?
Cher: ?Darryl??
Jack: ?Remember me? How you doin'??
Cher: ?Hanging in there.. What do you want??
Jack: ?Nothing, I just wanted to see how you are, how things were going.?
Cher: ?Well I'm fine.?
Jack: ?I just wanted to see how you were, make sure you were okay, make sure you didn't have any uncontrollable urge to see me. In case, you know, you were really missing me and you were too embarrassed to call, I thought I'd call first, that way you could still feel superior and see me at the same time. What do you say??

Some things I've been up to, I just went through TD's archive, which I hadn't read his posts in the last year, and now have like 300 pages of pure money shit that I've been testing. Have 4 *SOLID* MLTR's now, who are keeping me busy. Still, I sarge right in front of them whenever we go out, nothing keeps them in check like pulling ass right in front of them. KINDA SAD.
Funny, I was out with #2 the other night and was chilling with her and some of her bar staff for some beers after her shift. Some cool dude AMOG-bartender who likes my GF was trying to smart-ass me in front of her. By the end of it he was just fucking sitting there all quiet like, ?How the fuck did this little shit do that to me??? Funny shit.
It all started because he was pissed I showed up, as he obviously thought he was going to be able to game up my GF. I showed up, ran about 4 routine's and got the girls giggling and shooting blatant IOI's. That's when he cuts in with, ?Cool man, so what do you do for a living?? I smirk and look at the girls like he's such an ass and I go, ?I give women pleasure.? The girls bust out laughing and AMOG retreats back into his little empty head. One of the girls shit-tests me here with, ?Your GF says you're not so good? and they all laugh. I set myself up for that one I guess. I laugh along with them and let myself go red with embarrassment. Then I go, ?You girls are too mean, I'm going to re-validate myself? then I get up and walk over to the venue's bartender, who is getting picked up by some random dude.
I can feel all eyes are watching me, and my GF is going, ?Watch, he's going to try to pick her up.? BartenderHB asks me if I need a drink and I ignore it and ask who lies more. The guy goes, ?It depends who? and I look at the bartender like he is a tool and then tell her that he reminds me of this little badass kid I saw today (run badass kid story), then ?Don't know if I can trust you, girls are sexual predators?, then trust-test and then AMOG says he has to go and leaves. As soon as he turns his back she gives me this look like what a tool and I go, ?I could tell from over there that he was making you uncomfortable, see all those girls watching over there? (She looks over at the three girls I was with, who WERE in fact watching this whole thing go down, and goes, ?yeah??) ?They told me I should come save you, are you glad I did?? ?OMG thank you! (Big hug, kiss on cheek? ?Anytime. It was nice meeting you.? Then did a David D style email/number close and go back to my set. I felt like a fucking rockstar. I ca
lled her the next day and now's she?s my number 4. I qualified the shit out of her on day2 and fucked on day3.
Picked up a 2-set with my AFC buddy, who fucked the whole thing up for himself but at least I was okay. Funny, we brought them to my GF #1's *apartment* (who works as a waitress until 4am) and fooled around in her bed. She gave me the key to her apartment so that I can sneak in late at night and am all horny from PU. My friend blew us out (by being way too forward and needy/in love with his girl) and we lost them at around 2.30 am (which was perfect, really).
Next day I called the girls up and apologized for my friend and now they both love me. Went out with both of them at the same time two nights later and f-closed the girl while her friend watched TV in the other room with the door wide open. The whole thing went down a la Secret society as we talked about my AFC friend, leading up to female psychology, some routines of course, qualified them both simultaneously, went back to their place, and fucked. It was very much ASSUMED that I was going to fuck this girl, and they were both working to make it happen. The only reason I didn?t get the damn threesome was because the girl really wanted to be my girlfriend, and also because I SUCK AT GETTING THREESOMES. Oh well, still had an awesome time and plan to get the other girl later anyway.

PROMOS & REVIEWS SECTION (there are NO paid ads in this list and never have been. The "commercial" section is distinguished by the "--------------" separators):

DAVID NEWS:

New things are happening at Be Relentless - we are working on a special project which will be totally unique. David has been doing a lot more personal consultations lately and will hopefully have his newsletter out shortly. We still need questions by email and it would be appreciated if you could ask David about any related topic that could be of interest (how to find, meet, attract, close and keep women, etc.).

Please send them to him at david@be-relentless.com. I would recommend you copy me as well (cliff@cliffslist.com) so I will make sure they get answered.

All subscribers of these emails will be given a free subscription and, as here, you can unsubscribe at any time. I know that you will find his comments and advice to be pretty unique and very useful. We are also making progress on the long awaited book which we hope will be ready relatively soon now.

The tapes of the David Seminar are now available and are being shipped upon receipt of your order, but please allow 4-6 weeks for delivery. You can visit the website at www.be-relentless.com and orders should be made through paypal (go to www.paypal.com and send money to sales@be-relentless.com) if you need some other way to make payment, inquire at info@be-relentless.com. This product comes on two DVD discs for a total of approximately 6 1/2 hours of playing time. The price is $230 USD + $20 USD for the DVD which covers shipping and handling anywhere in the world. Inquire about shipping by overnight courier. These tapes are now available in a sound only version also.

Private in person or telephone consultations with David are available. David is particularly intuitive with regard to your specific individual problems with certain women. You can get on the phone, answer his questions on the situation, and he will give you very insightful advice on how to succeed in your particular mission.

PLEASE NOTE: This David is not to be confused with David DeAngelo of www.doubleyourdating.com (who has posted some great stuff here under the name "Sisonpyh"), or David Shade (of www.davidshade.com).

Blake Richards has put out a new ebook that looks very interesting. Check it out here: www.social-mastery.com/Game.html

Real Social Dynamics WORKSHOPS:
I highly recommend that you check these guys out. Anyone interested in attending, email Papa at papa@realsocialdynamics.com with the subject "WORKSHOP" and mention that you heard about it from Cliff's List. Also note: RSD will consider working out payment plans to make their workshop affordable - mention this to them.

Real Social Dynamics (realsocialdynamics.directtrack.com/ad/1/CD11):
Learn what works in seminar, and then jump directly into the field and watch the instructors demonstrate and teach it live. Stop feeling the fear of not knowing what to do ...

CLASSROOM SEMINAR
Montreal Seminar - $300 - July 10-11, 2004
Amsterdam Seminar - $300 - August 28-29, 2004
London Seminar - $300 - September 4-5, 2004
In-Field Workshops ($200 deposit required for signup)

IN-FIELD WORKSHOP
Los Angeles Workshop - $600 - June 11-13, 2004
Montreal Workshop - $600 - July 9-11, 2004
Amsterdam Workshop - $600 - August 27-29, 2004
London Workshop - $600 - September 3-5, 2004

INDIVIDUALIZED BOOTCAMP
Los Angeles Bootcamp - $1500 - June 18-20, 2004
Los Angeles Bootcamp - $1500 - June 25-27, 2004
Los Angeles Bootcamp - $1500 - July 16-18, 2004
Los Angeles Bootcamp - $1500 - July 23-25, 2004
Los Angeles Bootcamp - $1500 - July 30-August 1, 2004

Go to www.realsocialdynamics.com/ to signup for these events on their schedule.

Mystery Method Workshops:
www.Mysterymethod.com is now activated again and Mystery is now giving seminars and workshops.
Regular Seminars:
June 26-27, 2004 Chicago $750 ($650 for past students)

Mystery also offers In-Field Workshops, which are limited to only four students, and One on One In-Field Mentoring. If you are interested in either of these programs, please contact his business partner Herbal at herbal@mysterymethod.com.

Swinggcat has published a new ebook which you can check out at his website at www.realworldseduction.com. Those of you who remember his outstanding posts here will be anxious to get this as soon as possible. Highly recommended.

Ross Jeffries Speed Seduction Seminars (www.speedseduction.net/)

Advanced Speed Seduction? Seminars
Schedule 2004
Location Dates
London, England September 3, 4, 5

Speed Life Seminars
Schedule 2004
Location Dates
Cancun, Mexico November 7 thru 13

Your Mind in Business
Schedule 2004
Location Dates
Dallas, TX June 21-25

Major Mark (www.trucor.com) has announced his schedule for 2004:

*Beyond Seduction In Montreal -- July 16-18

Cliff's Comment: MONTREAL!!!!

*Introduction To Hypnosis -- The New Curriculum -- Las Vegas September 20-24
This year we were asked by a national hypnosis group to develop a New Curriculum for the training of hypnotists -- one which would reflect the absolute best of what has always worked while incorporating our own cutting-edge discoveries. We wanted a curriculum that was so comprehensive in explication and exercise that the graduates could walk into an internship anywhere in the world, secure that they were the best-trained hypnotists in the place. The result is being rolled out over five days in Las Vegas. This is your chance to immerse yourself in the most comprehensive approach to powerful, positive, permanent change ever presented!

Send mail to Cassi@trucor.com with questions or comments about these seminars.

Call to register: 419 882-8543 or go to www.trucor.com

Double Your Dating LIVE! NEW Seminar! We will be reviewing all of the new DYD products here soon, including the monthly interview series in which David DeAngelo interviews "Dating Gurus" such as Ben (), David X, and many others.

2004 Tentative Seminar Schedule:

London, England, July.
New York September.
Las Vegas beginning of December.

You can order all your DYD products and register for seminars through this link: www.doubleyourdating.com/cl

Riker's Seduction Log - Live Seminar
If you always wanted to hear more field reports, with full details, and even some recordings, then this seminar is for you. Dave Riker (Ross's co-trainer for those of you who don't know him) spends about 3 hours each evening going through his personal Logs and notes and provides full reports on sarges, many from start to close (finish). And that's a full "close" by the way, not just an email address or phone number!
The seminar is held in conjunction with Ross Jeffries Speed Seduction Seminars. Ross's seminar is during the day (and Riker presents at that too) and then Riker does his seminar in the evening. And even if you do not attend Ross's seminar you can still attend Riker's.
For full details see the web page at: www.daveriker.com/logseminar/track/cl.htmBe sure to check out his "Reviews" page on his site. Many guys that have been in the game for a while, and attended a LOT of seminars, were just blown away by Riker's Log seminar.

Introducing 1 on 1 Badboy workshops:

Badboy is a Croatian PUA from Zagreb who has spent almost 4 years in the game. He is also a respected poster in Mystery's lounge.

To see some of his stuff, search for posts by "croBadboy" on mASF or read one of the recent issues of Cliff's list.
Workshops are 1 on 1 for 3 days.
Each day consists of a 4-hour seminar and 5 hours of active in-field work. Each night you will make 20-30 approaches with your teacher to get field experience. 1 on 1 training makes it possible to answer any questions you might have and cover the most important aspects of the game in detail. Teachings are tailored to your level in the game.
The basic structure of the workshop is:

Day 1:
Social intelligence/emotional intelligence
How to dress, peacocking vs. dressing style
Alpha-male bodylanguage secrets
Attitude (inner-game) and getting a good seductive voice
Difference between emotional and party type girls
Social dynamics in clubs (2sets/3sets/lonewolves), know your city
Openers (sets with males vs. only-girl sets)
Day 2:
Difference between PUing alone and with a wing

Different tools for getting attraction
Power of contrast (bad boy & nice guy in one)
Stealing their frames
Passing shit tests
Push-pull
Isolation tactics(2steps)
Day 3:
AMOG tactics (the AMOG handshake, group set AMOG destroyers)
Boyfriend destroyers
Passing LMR
Secrets of good sex
How to manage a good relationship
More bodylanguage secrets
How to turn Coffee dates into fuck-fest in just 1 hour
How to turn a 0$ date into a time she will never forget
Difference between PUing in different places (small towns, big cities, colleges and the difference between certain clubs and the girls who go there)
Badboy says he can write a pages of what he does with guys because it's not just PU. He opens their EYES to LIFE, to understand how to live successfully.
For more info, email Badboy at badboy@playboylifestyle.net. See Badboy's new website: www.playboylifestyle.net

Thundercat's Seduction Lair
Get the latest News, Rumors, Tips, Tricks, & Analysis on the Pick-Up and Seduction community! The site is updated daily with lots of free and exclusive content.
Also a good way to keep up with things without having to navigate mASF. Drop By TSL today! www.thundercatseductionlair.comThe Art of Approaching: Learn to meet ANY woman, ANY time, ANY where. The most difficult hurdle for most men to overcome is that of the initial Approach. This comprehensive eBook gives you over 35 unique Openers, as well as a step-by-step roadmap to help overcome your fear of approaching forever!
www.thundercatseductionlair.com/ebook.htm

Impact Interaction (www.impactinteraction.com) @ London
Angel Caido, RyobI and Lockstock have been running Workshops and Seminars in London since the beginning of the year. The workshops are small in size (trainer : student ratio of 2:1 as max), so students get personal attention on sticking points.
The workshops include:
- Basejump: For approach newbies who need to get internal game and basic attraction skills in gear
- Field Interaction: To perfect your bar/ club and street performance
- Solid Game: Everything good except lots of flakes? Few end results? End to end game sticking points covered?

For more information go to www.impactinteraction.com or contact them @ contact@impactinteraction.com.

Have you ever asked yourself...
* What does it take to make a woman feel totally comfortable making out with me - even if she barely knows me?
* How do I get women to WANT to sleep with me? After all, what good are all those "bedroom techniques" I learned if I don't even know how to get her back to my bedroom in the first place?
* Why do women melt around some guys, but they are totally unresponsive to me? What do they have that I don't?
Wouldn't it be nice if you knew a guaranteed way to "get physical" with any woman you go out with? Have you ever been on a date with a woman, and wondered *how* you can start "making out" with her? (by making out, I mean kissing, hugging, holding hands, etc.)
Jason King has just released a not new report that will teach you everything you need to know about getting *close* to a woman on a date.
Jason is an absolute master at making out with a woman on the first date. Whenever he goes out with a woman, he seems to put them under some kind of "love spell", and they want to make out with him more and more as the date progresses. By the end of the date, the women usually invent all kinds of excuses to invite him back to their place.
There is NO other person out there who is teaching these skills. If you've ever wanted to learn how to make out with a woman on the FIRST date... not weeks or months later... you MUST check out his site.
www.MakeoutMastery.com/

"Seduction Tips-Seduce the woman for you today"
www.pmmarketing.org/seductiontips.htm

Maximillian Hell:
I have a PU journal up on livejournal. Right now it's mostly just a record of my sarges--but comments are welcome. www.livejournal.com/users/maximillianhell

Visit these sites (and give me your comments on their products):
http://www.sexualrapportmodeling.com/jump.php?a=2350 (site is either inactive or no longer relevant)
www.macktactics.com/www.seductionformula.com

Daniel:
If you are looking for a wing and you are a guy from Romania, you can check on our forums at www.seductierapida.ro/forum and you might find one.

Carlos Xuma:
Time is running short for all of us, no matter how young or old you are. Don't waste precious years learning by trial and error (and most likely not at all). Get the information on how to improve your dating life TODAY. Make the changes you need to make to get the love, sex, and relationships that you want and DESERVE to have. Download THE DATING BLACK BOOK right now at: www.datingdynamics.com/ebookstore.htm

A few sites to check out:
www.becomeaplayer.comMike PilinskI is the author of "Without Embarrassment: The Social Coward's Totally Fearless Seduction System"... a unique method of meeting girls that will have you making up for wasted time spent living in shy-guy hell from the very first moment you test it out. Check it Out Here => www.highstatusmale.com/.

David Wygant (www.whatsyourexcuse.com & www.mydatingagent.com).

Erick Kand has a new website that showcases Hypnosis Stage Shows for fun and entertainment: www.HypnosisEvents.com

The Foundations of Seduction
Hi, you know something? When it comes to seductionhey, when it comes to ANYTHING--how you feel has a huge impact on the results you get. But the way you feel doesn?t have to be determined by your surroundings, your expectations, others? behavior, or the tides and stars. You can guide your own feelings. By doing so, you can adjust and enhance your results. You can replace frustration with the satisfaction of tangy, blood-red, salty-sweet resolve. When you can change the way you feel, you can change what you experience? and what you encounter? and then the world stands revealed as something you yourself partially create. Sometimes, to begin claiming the victories you deserve, all you need is a simple little tool: a way of channeling your own emotions. A way of tapping your inner fire. A way of taking that inner fire, and letting it melt your external obstacles. A way of changing all that you feel, about all that you experience. Of course, you may not need or want such a tool. For some, the ability to guide and
drive one?s own emotional experience is pretty basic stuff. Some people shrug off rejection, feel wonderful almost all the time, and easily attain their goals. If that?s true for you, and you don?t think you can add to your abilitywell, you may be right. In that case, my new CD may not be for you. On the other hand, should you want a tool meant to ease the transition to seductive success? to productive success? to any kind of success, maybe this new CD can be of use to you. It?s called ?Foundations of Seduction?. You can get it for $29.97 plus $5 Priority Mail s/h, by going here: hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/sexualkey Just enter ?$34.97? into the FlexPay box and then email me at info@sexualkey.com with your shipping address and a note that you?ve ordered ?Foundations of Seduction?. If you?re outside the U.S., please add an additional $5 for shipping. Have fun! JD hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/sexualkey

LOUIS AND COPELAND'S "FREEDOM WITH WOMEN" SEMINAR DATES

To find out more about "Freedom with Women", contact
davidc@howtosucceedwithwomen.com

HOW TO SUCCEED WITH WOMEN Ron Louis and David Copeland have their Mastery Program Tape series available. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes. howtosucceedwithwomen.com/

Advanced Macking:
In case you want a step by step guide on how to get into one-night stands, check out Anthony Berger's Advanced Macking manual. What makes it unique is that it is engineered towards making it happen the same night you meet them. To learn how to persuade women back to your pad, check out his site: www.advancedmacking.com/Discount.htm

Michael:
If you want to improve not only your game, but also your understanding of women on a deeper level, so that you can have more successful relationships, you've got to come out to The Dating Wizard Seminar in downtown Toronto, Saturday May 15th-Sunday May16th. It will be two FULL days of non-stop IMMERSION giving you a whopping,eye-opening insight into how to be successful with women on a whole new level.
Special guests TBA.
To learn more about this special seminar, go to:
www.thedatingwizard.com/ And follow the "Seminars" link.
And if you want to focus on sharpening your pick up skills, you can now arrange one-on-one workshops with me where I'll work exclusively with you to improve your skills. This workshop will take you out to malls, clubs, and the street to do all forms of pickup. For more info go to thedatingwizard.com/workshops.htm .
And if you haven't downloaded my eBook, "The Dating Wizard: Secrets to Success with Women", then that's the place to get started. It's about being THE MAN at all times, and keeping that frame of mind always. I've also included the concepts and info that I found to be most important regarding LTR relationships.
Download it now at:
www.thedatingwizard.com/ And follow the link to "About The Dating Wizard"

FREE HYPNOSIS MINI-TUTORIAL
The UltimateSeduction Yahoo group, at goups.yahoo.com/group/UltimateSeduction/ is sponsoring a free one-month mini-tutorial on Conversational Hypnosis. This tutorial, presented by the hypnotist Archangel, is sectioned off into five parts:

1. Trance Words
2. Rapport
3. Persuasion Anchoring
4. Pacing, &
5. Leading

Although less than halfway through, members are reporting some highly entertaining, and some startling, success stories. The UltimateSeduction group has the advantage of having more than a few women on-list, enabling members to get some very pointed straight talk on their techniques. There is nothing to memorize - only a handful of very simple, and very effective, techniques. The group is gaining about 200 new members a week and is lightly moderated.

Anyone may join the tutorial at: goups.yahoo.com/group/UltimateSeduction/