I said (without thinking) NO!

This is Cliff's Private List, a free e-mail relating to seduction. Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from people commenting are separated by IIIIIIII with each commentator's name preceding each comment. Comments from previous emails are preceded by an ">", usually in front of that commentator's name). Feel free to forward this email to all your friends and encourage them to request a free subscription.

If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list to receive this, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be removed to cliff@cliffslist.com and it will be done. If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask.

All emails should now be sent to cliff@cliffslist.com. Hitting "REPLY" to this will no longer result in my getting your email - make sure you enter in my address.

Cliff's List Website NEWS:

FINALLY - Soon there will be a proper address for Cliff's List and it is: www.cliffslist.com.

CLIFF'S LIST TECHNICALITIES:
Here is the list of the last 5 emails that were sent out:

1) Just remember it's you're train - she just gets to ride on it.
2) The way I look at it, it's just a question of WHO has the might
3) She mentions the BF, You ignore it.
4) Rather soft and using the teeth and ending with a suction like kiss
5) I wouldn't insult your intelligence with anything as trivial as seduction. BUT...

SPECIAL NOTES:
- All posts you see here have been submitted by the author, or permission granted by the author to be reposted here.
- Please go to the website and read the promo section as there are usually new things mentioned there in each new email I send out. There are also many non-commercial announcements in there (eg. Lair news).
- This email originates in Montreal, Quebec, Canada - see the Lair section to read about activities in this and other cities.

Real Social Dynamics Returns to MONTREAL! New Dates - will be held during the Montreal Jazz Festival which runs July 2-17, 2004.
See below for their full workshop and seminar schedule.

Montreal Seminar - $300 - July 10-11, 2004
Montreal Workshop - $600 - July 9-11, 2004
Cliff's List is now an RSD affiliate and if you sign up for their workshops and seminars by clicking realsocialdynamics.directtrack.com/ad/1/CD11
you are also supporting this list.

Major Mark Returns to Montreal: *Beyond Seduction In Montreal* -- July 16-18. This promises to be the "inner game" event of the year. Recent information sent out by Major Mark about this seminar promotes the following benefits that you will receive if you attend:

- getting out of your whinny head and living comfortably in the Real World
- blast the negativity out of your past
- tap your inexhaustible reserve of relaxed masculine power
- moving women into the proper place and perspective
- convince your Self that you deserve the women you want
- how to instinctively use the right tool at the right time
- rock-solid control of your own emotions
- instantly shifting from hesitation to relaxed confidence in any setting
- build an irresistible impulse to act now!
- irresistible Charisma generated on demand
- creatively adopt or oppose her own energy
- instantaneous recoveries from unexpected setbacks or "disasters"
- assume new beliefs and unaccustomed behaviours as an act of will
- re-defining Masculinity so it works for you
- adopt the states and traits of the Naturally Seductive Man

For those of you unfamiliar with Major Mark, he co-trained for many years with Ross Jeffries in Speed Seduction seminars and it's a well known secret that he is one of the world's greatest hypnotists.

For more info www.trucor.com.

New Dating/Seduction Seminars & Workshop in Montreal by DOC!
Doc, who many of you know from his all too rare but outstanding posts on this list, on Mystery's Lounge, and the Montreal Lair, is bringing his seminars and speed dating events to Montreal. Previously they were mainly held in Toronto as part of the Learning Annex, Doc is now setting it up here and plans to hold events on a monthly basis.

The website is www.set nalife.com. The first seminars should be held shortly in Montreal. Registrations available on the website. The events are Dating Secrets for Women, a 3 Hour seminar (cost $50) and Dating Secrets for Guys; a Guide to The Art of Dating (also 3 hours and $50). There will also be a speed dating event in the evening for $50. You can contact Doc by email at seduction.school@sympatico.ca

Doc's next round of Seminars started last Sunday, June 6th in Montreal. Full-weekend Dating Makeover workshops will be offered about 2 weeks afterwards (including a half day with a personal stylist, video tape analysis of body language, and live practice sessions with dating coaches beautiful women who will give the guys on the spot feedback on how they come across and what to improve). Other Montreal dates for June, July and August will be coming up soon. As well, there are some Toronto and New York dates for this summer that will soon be posted. If there is a group of 10 or more guys interested in a seminar (or 5 guys for a workshop, he would consider making a special trip to their city).

This is a great opportunity to learn from a real master.

This email still doesn't have the special feature I have been telling a few of you about. It is done, though, and is scheduled to be released within a week from the time you receive this.

Toecutter (reposted from Mystery's Lounge with permission of the author - this was a follow up post to the Lounge post which was rerun here two emails ago by MTL_PUA about there being No Magic Pill):
You know, we were talking more about this guy last night ... he is in bad shape. No where to turn, so he comes to MTL. For guys who need women, there is no-one to turn to but us. I had never seen the community in this light before. There should be some Yenta service, some old woman match-maker for lonely guys like this that have value but can not do the initial bit of finding and meeting the girl.

There are a couple of things this guy really underlines for me (and this will be nothing new for the commercial guys who take money from guys like this and thus feel some responsibility for his well being). First is that as much as we say that the 9 game and the 7 game are different, the 7 game does not prepare you for the 9 game, and that is true, it works the other way around too. We are the wrong people for this guy to come to. We are players. We tool with the minds of pretty girls who are super validated and know they are the shit. This guy is a really nice guy. Good looking. Just turned 40. Wants a relationship in his life. He is a guy who would make some girl out there very happy. He does not have 5 years to get his shit together. Completely reforming his social skills will take time, and he does not really have that time. He can not spend 10 years getting this together. He needs something reasonably quick. Further he does not need the 23 year old hottie in a club, he needs the 33 year old biological-clock-ticking-girl who is looking to get into a relationship with someone stable.

So our lines and advice and game-playing with the opposite sex are not necessarily the right thing, and we don't even know where you go to FIND these girls. They are probably not even in bars and clubs. Going there in my mind to understand where this guy is coming from depresses me. Like imagine being him. He is a nice guy. He is good looking. He is honest. He meets people easily enough. It is just that he is not super-social. He doesn't have a circle of friends. He doesn't have family in town. He does not speak a word of French (thus limiting who he can speak to in his world around him ... he can not even ask the girl who serves him at McDonalds how her day has been). He has a job that is not top notch. No education. No women in his life. Just turned 40. There is nothing really wrong with the guy, it is just that the modern world is more complicated than ever before.

So thinking in more general lines about this: I believe that the community fucks certain people up. Guys have nowhere to turn, so they come to the community. It is the wrong place for them. Because there is a lot of bullshit touted around the community. Bullshit about provider frames vs. lover frames and how you want to stay out of provider frame. Bullshit about polyamory. Bullshit about threesomes. Bullshit about how girls prefer a player to a guy capable of a relationship. Bullshit about "10's" and how they are easy and possible for a guy like this with just this or that magic-pill line. And so guys come in to the community because they are lonely and have NO WOMEN in their lives, they have been desperate for years and they buy into the values and then don't dream of having a girl, rather they dream of having MORE WOMEN THAN THEY CAN HANDLE ... wait on, you need to be normal enough to be able to have a single woman first before jumping to many ... but they are sold that with a couple of lines they can suddenly become PLAYERS ... remember this is in their mind, not reality as they are sitting there alone in their apartments, telling themselves that they have this secret skill set which allows them to have all these unattainable pie-in-the-sky bullshit. And they have kid themselves so much, that when they turn to people for advice, they turn to PLAYERS who lie to women. The complete wrong sort of guy. What does MTL or I realistically have to offer this guy?

This is especially evident in the long-termers. Guys in the community for 7 or 8 years, just as lonely today as the day they bought that BHSC all that time ago. You know if they had not bought the BHSC, they would probably be happily married today with a 7 wife who they love and she loves him. But he bought into the community dreams of eternal youth, unattainable beauty and sexual smorgasboard.

Take a reality check at your lives, fellas. Turn off the bullshit for a second, and examine your own relationships with women. How is it going? Is the community fucking you up? If so, QUIT! Like now. Quit the fucking thing. Get on with your life. Because how would you feel if you could fast forward to 10 years later, and it is still the same as today? 10 years fucking fly, man! You will be 10 years older before you know it. Would you be happy to be still chasing tail and getting the same results that you are getting at the moment? Or do you envisage some change which will reform your life? Embrace the fact that change may not come, and you are listening to the WRONG guys here. We could be fucking up your life. We are players.

Guru master:
The Oxytocin Routine.
Here is a pattern, or routine, or IVD I've been using with girls this summer that is killer, especially during qualification phase, or when talking about relationships in general. KILLER ROUTINE GUYS. I suggest you trim the fat off of it and put it to use immediately. I got it from Tony Robbins' Get the edge CD's.
-The primary fears of all human beings are one, that we're not enough, and number two, that we won't be loved. Why? In the animal kingdom, most animals are not dependant like we are. If you're a bird, you're kicked out of the nest in a few days or weeks. If you're a snake, or turtle, you're dropped off and you fend for yourself from the first moment! There's nobody around, and you gotta step up! But, if you're a human being, you're one of the few creatures on earth, like primates (that's one of the other creatures like this) that have a long period of time in which your survival revolves around a total dependency upon another human being putting your needs ahead of their own.
See, as human beings we weren?t born with some special venom or deadly teeth or claws. Our evolutionary advantage is our ability to relate to each other. We share thoughts, feelings, and ideas, which is why human beings as a species have flourished. But you know, leave us ALONE and how do we do? If a baby is left alone, it DIES.
Babies get something called ?Failure to thrive? syndrome. If a baby is not stroked, is not physically loved, it dies. Babies need what doctors call ?tactile stimulation? IOW LOVE, otherwise the baby dies and they can?t explain it. IT DIES. Love is a need that is so deep within us? it is a survival instinct and without it we die. That's how important it is.
What?s unique about human beings it all of this makes your mother, and hopefully your father, but not always fathers, ALWAYS mothers though, have to love you if they?re bio-chemically healthy. The reason is that all pregnant women have something called OXYTOCIN.
**Interesting articles, BTW: www.oxytocin.org/oxytoc/

What this hormone does is it makes this mom have to love her child, even if her child is BUTT UGLY. Immediately this child who looks like a lizard is the most attractive thing on the face of the earth. And he?s got all this FAT around him. It's the last time someone will say you're cute when you're covered in blubber. He burps and it's wonderful, he throws up, ?It's okay baby, we love you!? No matter what you do, you are loved.
Also, every time you make just a little bit of noise, everybody JUMPS to meet your needs. ANYTHING you need magically shows up. When?s the last time you felt that way about your life?
It's because your survival depended on it. Now some fathers do leave, because they don?t have Oxytocin. But most fathers, the connection, the sense that their life is more significant than themselves, that there's this human being that's been brought into the world because of them that causes them to be connected. But that's an emotional/spiritual thing, and not necessarily bio-chemical.
Now there's a point when Oxytocin LEAVES. That's when the shit really hits the fan! Suddenly, the same stuff you used to do, you get a swat for! Or a harsh word, or IGNORED. Suddenly there's all these rules about things that have to happen before you get love, which is your substance of survival. Think about it. You have to do something significant now. Before, you didn?t have to do anything! Now you have to act a certain way. Good or bad, because if you don?t get attention as a child, you?ll do bad things, and BTW adults are just big children, so you have the same patterns at some level.
This dependency lasts roughly 18 years, so we live in a world where we become connection freaks, because we know if someone doesn?t care about us, if we're not significant enough, if we can?t generate enough love, we're not going to survive. It's because you're HUMAN. It is the basis of the psyche of human beings.
(transition to 11 hugs a day routine)
Another thing I've been playing around with, for shit tests, besides ignoring them, is to go, "OMG you're like a little version of me, you're so cute."
Sometimes they just giggle hysterically, sometimes (actually, once) shit test with "you love yourself" type crap, but mostly they gotta know why. "I can't tell you." WHY??? "You only got to find THAT out when you were 15" or just don't answer and keep going. For the ones that giggle hysterically, I use TD's "You make me feel like I'm the SHIT" type stuff which I've used when I was younger but for some reason stopped using.. For the ones who shit test with the "you must love yourself", I went, "You're right" and went into David X's "I love myself" routine.
Anyway, I've tested this "Mini - ME" joke at least 15 times now and the results have been very, very, very positive. That and "You make me feel like I'm the SHIT" are just phenomenal. Which I can remember saying to girls back when I was sixteen, but only just revived. Props to TD man.
I came up with this other routine spontaneously the other day and had these girls in HYSTERICS. Man, it was ridiculous. So I jotted it down for future reference. I'm sure you guys on this list can get some mileage from it. Let's call it the Hollywood Boy Toy routine:
(Talking about actors) "Haha, yeah he's cool, but you know who MY favorite actor is? IN fact, if I had to, I mean if I absolutely HAD TO FUCK A GUY, I'd fuck Matthew McConaughy.
It USED to be LEO, but ever since Titanic he's lost something, actually GAINED something when you think about it... he's all bloated and shit, which, you can't really blame him, I mean, if I walked off the set of Titanic everyday and had thousands of screaming raving lunatic fans following me every day, managers trying to fuck me out of my money, friends who are jealous and won't talk to me, and women constantly throwing their panties at me all day (A BIG LAUGH should ensue right here) I'd probably binge and get bloated too. IN FACT, I'd fuckin' party my ASS OFF man, I'd Janis Joplin myself, I'd do a Chris Farley man, I'd mother-fuckin' Elvis my ass, I really would.
I'd pull a John Belushi, Jimi Hendrix, and Curt Cobain. All those fuckin' panties man, I couldn't handle it."
The key, IMO, is you really get their attention (and giggles) when you say "If I had to fuck a *GUY*". It arrests their attention completely for you to deliver the rest of the routine. They also picture you as this big star who has women throwing their panties at him, which the girls seem to find fucking funny, hence I used it as callback humor for the rest of the night.

Tony Robbins theory on attraction:
People have masculine and feminine energies. Often when they join together, they become the same as time goes on, where they both become feminine or both become masculine and so the attraction dies. And that sensuality, that sexuality comes from polarity. Just like the Earth has different poles, and those different poles create that intense energy of attraction. If you become the SAME, then there's no SPARK. There's no electricity.
What he's saying here, IMO, is if the chick is really feminine, then you should project masculinity, and vice versa.

Vini Hollywood (reposted from Mystery's Lounge with permission of the author):
I have a friend that will never under any circumstances validate a woman.

He will go as far as fooling around, and he is still "pushing" with talk about his or her girlfriends i.e.
"do you think your girlfriend is into me" "do you think you can hook me up with so-and-so" and according to
him - they rip his clothes off.

Also, he brings them to places where he is guaranteed to get distracted by other people. Ultimately he ends up ignoring or being pre-occupied by everyone else. He will pop in and out to check his date's temperature but will always leave them with something that will stew in their mind. For example,"man.... so-and-so told me a juicy secret about X ... you're gonna love this" and disappear.

When he calls them he will say something like.... "I'm on my way somewhere.. in traffic.. entertain me" and threaten to hang up on them " .... what?... this conversation is gonna be over."

His pitch to hang out is something like this..... "yeah... you can come... but I'll be busy most of the eve" implying that SHE is the one asking him to hang out.

He also told me a story about a girl lying in his bed while he called his primary and talked to her for a long time - pimp like - while the other girl sat and listened. He got off the phone, talked about how hot his primary is and then banged the girl in his bed.

So the question is: how else can you build sexual tension without validating a girl?

Brother Kermit:
The Vermont Story
This story does not end in a lay. In fact it was the last time that I spoke to Number 5, and I will not be with her again for the foreseeable future.
Just after the Easter holiday, I got a phone call from number 5. She said she was breaking up with me, that she didn't want to fuck anymore. I had sensed it coming (she was fucking one or two others guys as far as she told me), and I think she was looking for reasons to move on.
I didn't like the fact that she did it over the phone in a message. So I left her a message, being very relaxed and as matter of fact, that we both knew this was coming, blah blah blah, (if this was just a test, I don't care. She was an OK lay, not the greatest, but at least I get my Friday nights back.) But I did call her on her bullshit. I pointed out that I was surprised that someone like herself who prides her direct honesty and such would break up over the phone...then I said something along the lines of 'thought she was better than "that"'...then I mentioned that I fully expect her to return my book, and video I had lent her, and even brought up that she kept promising to give me a set of drinking glasses for my bar, that she still hadn't delivered on. I figured if I pissed her off, too bad. The book and video are replaceable, so what did I have to lose? Well she called back, and acted all insulted that I would ever assume that she wouldn't keep her word....then I calmly interrupted with, "..and that's
why you did what you did over the phone..." Then she went on about how she tried to reach me, but I wasn't available, etc....I just changed the topic to when we could meet for me to pick up my things. We met that weekend, I went over to her place, and picked up everything including the glasses. I even got her to flash me her tits again, (just for old time's sake). And I left.
I still called her about once every week to two weeks, just to see how she is going on.
Now, a few months later, she returned one of my phone calls, as I was maybe going to help her get a temporary job at reception where I work, and the conversation took us to other topics including our time together.
I then went shameless and told her how I did miss the time we had together, and that I would love to have dinner with her, followed by intense make-out, and sucking her, licking her, eating her, making her cum like usual and fucking her. I was more graphic than what you are reading here. She was getting into it, and said, "I'll think about it".
48 hours later I get a phone message from her saying to call her back as she has a proposal for me. I did, and she says she is inviting me up to Vermont to stay the Victoria Day weekend with her. She leaves Friday night. I would get there on Sunday afternoon, and we both leave Monday. My main thought was "Great, I want to roast marsh mellows!" This is something I have always wanted to do. Roast marsh mellows then have sex, and I thought I would finally get it.
So I agree, and when the time comes, I make my way there. I took with me my best bottle of sparkling wine, her favourite rum, some new fruit liquor, and honey wine for Monday brunch. I also brought with me food, and, of course, marsh mellows. Between the gas, and the food, I probably spent more than I should have, but I don't do this sort of thing often, and what the fuck, I have to have fun. Besides, she was paying her own way there, and the cottage, and space so that didn't cost me a thing.
Once I got there, we took a walk hand in hand and arm in arm along the entire grounds, collected some fire wood for that night, and then went back to the cottage for lunch. During our walk she told me that she was going to spend this time with her current lover, but that he HATES camping. Then she was going to take her gay-male friend George, but they had a falling out weeks earlier and they are not speaking anymore. Apparently it was her lover's idea for her to invite me. (He knew about her and I when he was also doing her and apparently he is as non-jealous as I am.)
After lunch we started to drink, and I got frisky with her. She put an immediate stop to it. "What do you think you are doing?" "I would think that would be obvious" I said. "On no, Kermit, I don't want to sleep with you"....
At first I thought she was joking, but when I tried to slip my hand up her shirt (as we had readily done in the past) she really balked. I was stunned. What the fuck is going on? We take the discussion onto the porch. There she tells me that she absolutely doesn't want sex with me, and how could I ever assume such a thing could happen between us, etc...Then she just tried to pass it along with, aw com'on, don't be like that, and kept pushing me to drink.
As you bros know, I have become quite a connoisseur of alcohol, but at that moment, drinking anything, especially with her, was the last thing I wanted to do.
She told me that when she breaks up with someone that she never goes back, not even just for sex. I reminded her of her current lover who is an ex-boyfriend. Her response? He didn't count, as he is just "stud-service". Now I had the choice, get into a logical argument, or change the direction altogether. I changed direction.
When she insisted that no sex was going to happen, and asked how I could ever assume it, I reminded her how and when the invitation came up. (As you read in this post above). She went silent. Then said, Oh Kermit, I am sorry for the misunderstanding. But come on let's have a drink.
I said, there was no misunderstanding, and no to the drink.
Then she said, "Aw, poor petit bebe, he's not going to get any, come on have a drink."
Then my rage kicked in. But I didn't lose control. All I could think about was that I really wanted to roast marsh mellows. But I wasn't about to use up my best bottle of sparking wine on her.
I just looked at her and raised my voice slightly. "I'm NOT Gay! I'm NOT George!" "You have been hanging around fags so long that you think it is natural for a man and a woman to be together and not have sexual tensions. That is not natural. I am not going to deny a part of who I am because you can't deal with reality." She was taken aback, and said "You know Kermit, I think that is the most powerful thing anyone has ever said to me."
I thought about it in silence for about 30 seconds. Do I stay, and try to get her into bed, do I leave and not roast the marsh mellows. In the past I would have stayed with the "hope" I could change her mind. But not now. If I had stayed in Montreal, I could have gotten laid with one of my other girls. I will not spend my time in Vermont being rejected all night and sleeping alone. Fuck the marsh mellows.
So I just said that I will not be spending the night in Vermont. She said, Well, whatever you want. Come on and have a drink. (She thought I would stay the day and leave at bedtime.). I then said that I was going to pack my car.
She was stunned. Her wide eyes tell all. She actually didn't think I would leave her in Vermont, that I would just accept her frame. But no. When she started up with, but, so soon? etc...
I cut her off. I came up here for a romantic weekend with passion and drinks, etc...She then asked isn't it worth it for me to stay and celebrate our time together WITHOUT the sex? I said (without thinking) NO!
I then told her not to worry, we could still be friends, but I was going back to Montreal right away to make the most of the rest of the day. I packed my car and left. I was only there for about 2 hours. I spent more time in the car driving, than I did at the resort.
I have changed since the study of the community. In the past I would have stayed. Now, I knew better. Not because I have other options in town (the other girls), but because I knew I was being set up, disrespected, but I kept my cool, and got some respect in the end. Not sex, but respect. Not her respect, but my self-respect.
Guys, somewhere along the way, she put me into the Gay-Friend category of her brain. George had left a vacancy, and she needed someone to fill it. Somehow, I fucked up and got put there. I haven't heard from her since. I doubt number 5 will be a part of my harem again.
But at least I have all her naked pictures (alot of them) up on my wall (back, frontal and face, close-ups and all), and a video tape of us in the shower and her blowing me, so it wasn't a total loss ; )

***Mystery***:
Solving Incongruence
Ever try to use another person's personality conveying routine only to have it come out of your mouth like a bad script? When what you say and how you say it don't match up in a natural manner, you have what we call "incongruence".
To get a woman interested in you, you must be interesting. That is why the seduction community shares interesting stories (routines) - so that you can BE interesting.
"What one man can do, another man can do."
Some have suggested that you should "just be yourself" and not use successful pick-up artist's interesting scripts. You can't solve the problem of incongruence by simply "being yourself", unless of course you want to continue being alone.
"If you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always gotten."
A change must be made to make you interesting, and that change occurs through the use of interesting field-tested and proven material.
Like a comedian, a pick-up artist is also a performing artist.
A pick-up artist's task is to captivate a small group of people long enough to convey specific personality characteristics that ultimately make him interesting to the one woman in the group he has his eye on. The material he uses to do this is like a vehicle, and his personality is the vehicle's passenger, driven to the destination of a beautiful woman.
When a comedian tells a good joke, people say, "That's a good joke." When he strings several jokes together however, people say "He's hilarious!" It is no longer the material that takes the acclaim but the comedian himself.
Picture this: An amateur comedian is hanging with friends and accidentally tells a joke during a conversation. He thinks to himself, "That was funny! I'm going to put that in my comedy act." So a few days later he does, only the comedy routine falls flat. He thinks to himself, "When I said it to my friends, they really cracked up. It must be the audience." So the next week he throws the joke into his act again, and again it fails to make his audience laugh. He thinks, "Hmm, Why didn't this work? Is it the material or the audience that is to blame?" He decides to try the routine out one more time the following week. Again, the routine fails to make people laugh. He's had enough! He stops using the routine entirely.
Now let's look at what a professional comedian does. It is the pro who knows that reciting a joke only three times in front of an audience is not enough. He knows he must practice telling the joke again and again (in front of a live audience) to systematically build back the natural timing that the joke had the first time he told it to his friends.
The bad news is, every new routine that you learn must go through this naturalization phase. It may take a good two-dozen times until the scripted routine comes out like it did the first time it was created. The good news is, when you're doing a dozen approaches a night, you'll have a totally natural routine "in the can" in only two nights!
If you practice each routine a couple dozen times in-field, you'll have a whole list of routines "in the can" - in your head - ready to go - when you really need them. There will come a time in your near future that you will be given an opportunity to attract a woman of particular quality - are you ready for the challenge? Do you have enough material naturalized and ready to go so you can attract her with congruence? Or will you leave such an important life-changing moment to chance by "just being yourself"?
I'm Mystery. Keep it UP!

PROMOS & REVIEWS SECTION (there are NO paid ads in this list and never have been. The "commercial" section is distinguished by the "--------------" separators):

DAVID NEWS:

New things are happening at Be Relentless - we are working on a special project which will be totally unique. David has been doing a lot more personal consultations lately and will hopefully have his newsletter out shortly. We still need questions by email and it would be appreciated if you could ask David about any related topic that could be of interest (how to find, meet, attract, close and keep women, etc.).

Please send them to him at david@be-relentless.com. I would recommend you copy me as well (cliff@cliffslist.com) so I will make sure they get answered.

All subscribers of these emails will be given a free subscription and, as here, you can unsubscribe at any time. I know that you will find his comments and advice to be pretty unique and very useful. We are also making progress on the long awaited book which we hope will be ready relatively soon now.

The tapes of the David Seminar are now available and are being shipped upon receipt of your order, but please allow 4-6 weeks for delivery. You can visit the website at www.be-relentless.com and orders should be made through paypal (go to www.paypal.com and send money to sales@be-relentless.com) if you need some other way to make payment, inquire at info@be-relentless.com. This product comes on two DVD discs for a total of approximately 6 1/2 hours of playing time. The price is $230 USD + $20 USD for the DVD which covers shipping and handling anywhere in the world. Inquire about shipping by overnight courier. These tapes are now available in a sound only version also.

Private in person or telephone consultations with David are available. David is particularly intuitive with regard to your specific individual problems with certain women. You can get on the phone, answer his questions on the situation, and he will give you very insightful advice on how to succeed in your particular mission.

PLEASE NOTE: This David is not to be confused with David DeAngelo of www.doubleyourdating.com (who has posted some great stuff here under the name "Sisonpyh"), or David Shade (of www.davidshade.com).

Blake Richards has put out a new ebook that looks very interesting. Check it out here: www.social-mastery.com/Game.html

Real Social Dynamics WORKSHOPS:
I highly recommend that you check these guys out. Anyone interested in attending, email Papa at papa@realsocialdynamics.com with the subject "WORKSHOP" and mention that you heard about it from Cliff's List. Also note: RSD will consider working out payment plans to make their workshop affordable - mention this to them.

Real Social Dynamics (realsocialdynamics.directtrack.com/ad/1/CD11):
Learn what works in seminar, and then jump directly into the field and watch the instructors demonstrate and teach it live. Stop feeling the fear of not knowing what to do ...

CLASSROOM SEMINAR
Montreal Seminar - $300 - July 10-11, 2004
Amsterdam Seminar - $300 - August 28-29, 2004
London Seminar - $300 - September 4-5, 2004
In-Field Workshops ($200 deposit required for signup)

IN-FIELD WORKSHOP
Los Angeles Workshop - $600 - June 11-13, 2004
Montreal Workshop - $600 - July 9-11, 2004
Amsterdam Workshop - $600 - August 27-29, 2004
London Workshop - $600 - September 3-5, 2004

INDIVIDUALIZED BOOTCAMP
Los Angeles Bootcamp - $1500 - June 18-20, 2004
Los Angeles Bootcamp - $1500 - June 25-27, 2004
Los Angeles Bootcamp - $1500 - July 16-18, 2004
Los Angeles Bootcamp - $1500 - July 23-25, 2004
Los Angeles Bootcamp - $1500 - July 30-August 1, 2004

Go to realsocialdynamics.directtrack.com/ad/1/CD11 to signup for these events on their schedule.

Mystery Method Workshops:
What method are YOU using?
If you are opening groups (or sets: 2-sets, 3-sets, mixed sets, etc) of people with the 3 second rule by stacking indirect openers (including false opinion openers), false time constraining (discovered by Style), demonstrating a higher value to your romantic interest?s peer group with high octane DHVs while she obliquely observes (locking her into her own set with a prop), and simultaneously performing false disqualifiers (which include negs) on her with the intention of disarming her peer group and then isolating her to rebuild her self-esteem once you have enough IOIs (indicators of interest) so you may share in a comfort and trust building effort and then build in a jealousy subplot to solidify her attraction for you, you are using The Mystery Method.
If instead you are only approaching women who are alone, you are greatly limiting your options and quite likely alienating your target's friends. Do you want a lonely woman (why is she lonely?) or a woman who already has a healthy social lfe? Truth is, healthy women have healthy relationships ... sometimes good friendships with guys. Like it or not, you will have to meet these women with men in her group.
Women of beauty are rarely found alone. Don't miss the opportunity to meet and attract them WITH social proof from her very own peer group. Group Approach Theory (GAT - created by me) improves your options and increases the chances for attraction DRAMATICALLY over Single Approach Theory (SAT).
The guys who are GREAT in this game KNOW that they can improve their game ten-fold through seminars and personal coaching in-field workshops. Think about this: Why did so many of the greats who use my GAT (Style, Tyler D., MTL_PUA, and others) take my seminars and workshops? What started them off to greatness in this game? Can you see the co-relation may in fact be a causation?
If you have NEVER taken a seminar or workshop before, it's time to finally reconsider. They are life-transforming. I have conducted dozens of them. I am currently conducting a boot camp and will accept only 5 people. Workshops and seminars were for many of the greats THE difference between great success and failure. If you are ready, give me a call and sign up. If you have any questions, give me a shout at 323-219-8696 (Mystery) because email sucks, or visit www.Mysterymethod.com and email me your #. We need to talk. Man to man.

Swinggcat has published a new ebook which you can check out at his website at www.realworldseduction.com. Those of you who remember his outstanding posts here will be anxious to get this as soon as possible. Highly recommended.

Ross Jeffries Speed Seduction Seminars (www.speedseduction.net/)

Advanced Speed Seduction? Seminars
Schedule 2004
Location Dates
London, England September 3, 4, 5

Speed Life Seminars
Schedule 2004
Location Dates
Cancun, Mexico November 7 thru 13

Your Mind in Business
Schedule 2004
Location Dates
Dallas, TX June 21-25

Major Mark (www.trucor.com) has announced his schedule for 2004:

*Beyond Seduction In Montreal -- July 16-18

Cliff's Comment: MONTREAL!!!!

*Introduction To Hypnosis -- The New Curriculum -- Las Vegas September 20-24
This year we were asked by a national hypnosis group to develop a New Curriculum for the training of hypnotists -- one which would reflect the absolute best of what has always worked while incorporating our own cutting-edge discoveries. We wanted a curriculum that was so comprehensive in explication and exercise that the graduates could walk into an internship anywhere in the world, secure that they were the best-trained hypnotists in the place. The result is being rolled out over five days in Las Vegas. This is your chance to immerse yourself in the most comprehensive approach to powerful, positive, permanent change ever presented!

Send mail to Cassi@trucor.com with questions or comments about these seminars.

Call to register: 419 882-8543 or go to www.trucor.com

Double Your Dating LIVE! NEW Seminar! We will be reviewing all of the new DYD products here soon, including the monthly interview series in which David DeAngelo interviews "Dating Gurus" such as Ben (), David X, and many others.

2004 Tentative Seminar Schedule:

London, England, July.
New York September.
Las Vegas beginning of December.

You can order all your DYD products and register for seminars through this link: www.doubleyourdating.com/cl

Riker's Seduction Log - Live Seminar
If you always wanted to hear more field reports, with full details, and even some recordings, then this seminar is for you. Dave Riker (Ross's co-trainer for those of you who don't know him) spends about 3 hours each evening going through his personal Logs and notes and provides full reports on Sarges, many from start to close (finish). And that's a full "close" by the way, not just an email address or phone number!
The seminar is held in conjunction with Ross Jeffries Speed Seduction Seminars. Ross's seminar is during the day (and Riker presents at that too) and then Riker does his seminar in the evening. And even if you do not attend Ross's seminar you can still attend Riker's.
For full details see the web page at: www.daveriker.com/logseminar/track/cl.htmBe sure to check out his "Reviews" page on his site. Many guys that have been in the game for a while, and attended a LOT of seminars, were just blown away by Riker's Log seminar.

Introducing 1 on 1 Badboy workshops:

Badboy is a Croatian PUA from Zagreb who has spent almost 4 years in the game. He is also a respected poster in Mystery's lounge.

To see some of his stuff, search for posts by "croBadboy" on mASF or read one of the recent issues of Cliff's list.
Workshops are 1 on 1 for 3 days.
Each day consists of a 4-hour seminar and 5 hours of active in-field work. Each night you will make 20-30 approaches with your teacher to get field experience. 1 on 1 training makes it possible to answer any questions you might have and cover the most important aspects of the game in detail. Teachings are tailored to your level in the game.
The basic structure of the workshop is:

Day 1:
Social intelligence/emotional intelligence
How to dress, peacocking vs. dressing style
Alpha-male bodylanguage secrets
Attitude (inner-game) and getting a good seductive voice
Difference between emotional and party type girls
Social dynamics in clubs (2sets/3sets/lonewolves), know your city
Openers (sets with males vs. only-girl sets)
Day 2:
Difference between PUing alone and with a wing
Different tools for getting attraction
Power of contrast (bad boy & nice guy in one)
Stealing their frames
Passing shit tests
Push-pull
Isolation tactics(2steps)
Day 3:
AMOG tactics (the AMOG handshake, group set AMOG destroyers)
Boyfriend destroyers
Passing LMR
Secrets of good sex
How to manage a good relationship
More bodylanguage secrets
How to turn Coffee dates into fuck-fest in just 1 hour
How to turn a 0$ date into a time she will never forget
Difference between PUing in different places (small towns, big cities, colleges and the difference between certain clubs and the girls who go there)
Badboy says he can write a pages of what he does with guys because it's not just PU. He opens their EYES to LIFE, to understand how to live successfully.
For more info, email Badboy at badboy@playboylifestyle.net. See Badboy's new website: www.playboylifestyle.net

NEW BADBOY WORKSHOPS IN RIO DE JANEIRO:
The dates are:
August 5-6-7
August 11-12-13
August 18-19-20
There are seats available now.
Price : $850
You can make a deposit ($100) for a workshop on Paypal and send money to: nightlife@playboylifestyle.net

Thundercat's Seduction Lair
Get the latest News, Rumors, Tips, Tricks, & Analysis on the Pick-Up and Seduction community! The site is updated daily with lots of free and exclusive content.
Also a good way to keep up with things without having to navigate mASF. Drop By TSL today! www.thundercatseductionlair.comThe Art of Approaching: Learn to meet ANY woman, ANY time, ANY where. The most difficult hurdle for most men to overcome is that of the initial Approach. This comprehensive eBook gives you over 35 unique Openers, as well as a step-by-step roadmap to help overcome your fear of approaching forever!
www.thundercatseductionlair.com/ebook.htm

Impact Interaction (www.impactinteraction.com) @ London
Angel Caido, RyobI and Lockstock have been running Workshops and Seminars in London since the beginning of the year. The workshops are small in size (trainer : student ratio of 2:1 as max), so students get personal attention on sticking points.
The workshops include:
- Basejump: For approach newbies who need to get internal game and basic attraction skills in gear
- Field Interaction: To perfect your bar/ club and street performance
- Solid Game: Everything good except lots of flakes? Few end results? End to end game sticking points covered?

For more information go to www.impactinteraction.com or contact them @ contact@impactinteraction.com.

Have you ever asked yourself...
* What does it take to make a woman feel totally comfortable making out with me - even if she barely knows me?
* How do I get women to WANT to sleep with me? After all, what good are all those "bedroom techniques" I learned if I don't even know how to get her back to my bedroom in the first place?
* Why do women melt around some guys, but they are totally unresponsive to me? What do they have that I don't?
Wouldn't it be nice if you knew a guaranteed way to "get physical" with any woman you go out with? Have you ever been on a date with a woman, and wondered *how* you can start "making out" with her? (by making out, I mean kissing, hugging, holding hands, etc.)
Jason King has just released a not new report that will teach you everything you need to know about getting *close* to a woman on a date.
Jason is an absolute master at making out with a woman on the first date. Whenever he goes out with a woman, he seems to put them under some kind of "love spell", and they want to make out with him more and more as the date progresses. By the end of the date, the women usually invent all kinds of excuses to invite him back to their place.
There is NO other person out there who is teaching these skills. If you've ever wanted to learn how to make out with a woman on the FIRST date... not weeks or months later... you MUST check out his site.
www.MakeoutMastery.com/

"Seduction Tips-Seduce the woman for you today"
www.pmmarketing.org/seductiontips.htm

Maximillian Hell:
I have a PU journal up on livejournal. Right now it's mostly just a record of my sarges--but comments are welcome.
www.livejournal.com/users/maximillianhell

Visit these sites (and give me your comments on their products):
http://www.sexualrapportmodeling.com/jump.php?a=2350 (site is either inactive or no longer relevant)
www.macktactics.com/www.seductionformula.com
www.thejamesmethod.com/Gunwitch has also entered the commercial game. Go to: hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/gunwitch

Daniel:
If you are looking for a wing and you are a guy from Romania, you can check on our forums at www.seductierapida.ro/forum and you might find one.

Carlos Xuma:
Time is running short for all of us, no matter how young or old you are. Don't waste precious years learning by trial and error (and most likely not at all). Get the information on how to improve your dating life TODAY. Make the changes you need to make to get the love, sex, and relationships that you want and DESERVE to have. Download THE DATING BLACK BOOK right now at: www.datingdynamics.com/ebookstore.htm

A few sites to check out:
www.becomeaplayer.comMike PilinskI is the author of "Without Embarrassment: The Social Coward's Totally Fearless Seduction System"... a unique method of meeting girls that will have you making up for wasted time spent living in shy-guy hell from the very first moment you test it out. Check it Out Here => www.highstatusmale.com/.

David Wygant (www.whatsyourexcuse.com & www.mydatingagent.com).

Erick Kand has a new website that showcases Hypnosis Stage Shows for fun and entertainment: www.HypnosisEvents.com

The Foundations of Seduction
Hi, you know something? When it comes to seduction hey, when it comes to ANYTHING--how you feel has a huge impact on the results you get. But the way you feel doesn?t have to be determined by your surroundings, your expectations, others? behavior, or the tides and stars. You can guide your own feelings. By doing so, you can adjust and enhance your results. You can replace frustration with the satisfaction of tangy, blood-red, salty-sweet resolve. When you can change the way you feel, you can change what you experience? and what you encounter? and then the world stands revealed as something you yourself partially create. Sometimes, to begin claiming the victories you deserve, all you need is a simple little tool: a way of channeling your own emotions. A way of tapping your inner fire. A way of taking that inner fire, and letting it melt your external obstacles. A way of changing all that you feel, about all that you experience. Of course, you may not need or want such a tool. For some, the ability to guide and
drive one?s own emotional experience is pretty basic stuff. Some people shrug off rejection, feel wonderful almost all the time, and easily attain their goals. If that's true for you, and you don?t think you can add to your abilitywell, you may be right. In that case, my new CD may not be for you. On the other hand, should you want a tool meant to ease the transition to seductive success? to productive success? to any kind of success, maybe this new CD can be of use to you. It's called ?Foundations of Seduction?. You can get it for $29.97 plus $5 Priority Mail s/h, by going here: hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/sexualkey Just enter ?$34.97? into the FlexPay box and then email me at info@sexualkey.com with your shipping address and a note that you've ordered ?Foundations of Seduction?. If you're outside the U.S., please add an additional $5 for shipping. Have fun! JD hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/sexualkey

LOUIS AND COPELAND'S "FREEDOM WITH WOMEN" SEMINAR DATES

To find out more about "Freedom with Women", contact
davidc@howtosucceedwithwomen.com

HOW TO SUCCEED WITH WOMEN Ron Louis and David Copeland have their Mastery Program Tape series available. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes. howtosucceedwithwomen.com/

Advanced Macking:
In case you want a step by step guide on how to get into one-night stands, check out Anthony Berger's Advanced Macking manual. What makes it unique is that it is engineered towards making it happen the same night you meet them. To learn how to persuade women back to your pad, check out his site: www.advancedmacking.com/Discount.htm

Michael:
If you want to improve not only your game, but also your understanding of women on a deeper level, so that you can have more successful relationships, you've got to come out to The Dating Wizard Seminar in downtown Toronto, Saturday May 15th-Sunday May16th. It will be two FULL days of non-stop IMMERSION giving you a whopping,eye-opening insight into how to be successful with women on a whole new level.
Special guests TBA.
To learn more about this special seminar, go to:
www.mcssl.com/app/aftrack.asp?afid=104215And follow the "Seminars" link.
And if you want to focus on sharpening your pick up skills, you can now arrange one-on-one workshops with me where I'll work exclusively with you to improve your skills. This workshop will take you out to malls, clubs, and the street to do all forms of pickup. For more info go to thedatingwizard.com/workshops.htm .
And if you haven't downloaded my eBook, "The Dating Wizard: Secrets to Success with Women", then that's the place to get started. It's about being THE MAN at all times, and keeping that frame of mind always. I've also included the concepts and info that I found to be most important regarding LTR relationships.
Download it now at:
www.mcssl.com/app/aftrack.asp?afid=104215And follow the link to "About The Dating Wizard"

FREE HYPNOSIS MINI-TUTORIAL
The UltimateSeduction Yahoo group, at groups.yahoo.com/group/UltimateSeduction/ is sponsoring a free one-month mini-tutorial on Conversational Hypnosis. This tutorial, presented by the hypnotist Archangel, is sectioned off into five parts:
1. Trance Words
2. Rapport
3. Persuasion Anchoring
4. Pacing, &
5. Leading
Although less than halfway through, members are reporting some highly entertaining, and some startling, success stories. The UltimateSeduction group has the advantage of having more than a few women on-list, enabling members to get some very pointed straight talk on their techniques. There is nothing to memorize - only a handful of very simple, and very effective, techniques. The group is gaining about 200 new members a week and is lightly moderated.
Anyone may join the tutorial at: groups.yahoo.com/group/UltimateSeduction/