Like a wild and wooly semiautomatic truck bomb!

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Cliff's List Website NEWS:

FINALLY - Now there is a proper address for Cliff's List and it is: www.cliffslist.com.

The old websites will refer you now to this site.

CLIFF'S LIST TECHNICALITIES:
Here is the list of the last 5 emails that were sent out:

1) Just remember it's you're train - she just gets to ride on it.
2) The way I look at it, it's just a question of WHO has the might
3) She mentions the BF, You ignore it.
4) Rather soft and using the teeth and ending with a suction like kiss
5) I said (without thinking) NO!

SPECIAL NOTES:
- All posts you see here have been submitted by the author, or permission granted by the author to be reposted here.
- Please go to the website and read the promo section as there are usually new things mentioned there in each new email I send out. There are also many non-commercial announcements in there (eg. Lair news).
- This email originates in Montreal, Quebec, Canada - see the Lair section to read about activities in this and other cities.

Real Social Dynamics Returns to MONTREAL! New Dates - will be held during the Montreal Jazz Festival which runs July 2-17, 2004.
See below for their full workshop and seminar schedule.

Montreal Seminar - $300 - July 10-11, 2004
Montreal Workshop - $600 - July 9-11, 2004 (NOTE NEW DATES)
Cliff's List is now an RSD affiliate and if you sign up for their workshops and seminars by clicking realsocialdynamics.directtrack.com/ad/1/CD11
you are also supporting this list.

Major Mark Returns to Montreal: *Beyond Seduction In Montreal* -- July 16-18. This promises to be the "inner game" event of the year. Recent information sent out by Major Mark about this seminar promotes the following benefits that you will receive if you attend:

- getting out of your whinny head and living comfortably in the Real World
- blast the negativity out of your past
- tap your inexhaustible reserve of relaxed masculine power
- moving women into the proper place and perspective
- convince your Self that you deserve the women you want
- how to instinctively use the right tool at the right time
- rock-solid control of your own emotions
- instantly shifting from hesitation to relaxed confidence in any setting
- build an irresistible impulse to act now!
- irresistible Charisma generated on demand
- creatively adopt or oppose her own energy
- instantaneous recoveries from unexpected setbacks or "disasters"
- assume new beliefs and unaccustomed behaviours as an act of will
- re-defining Masculinity so it works for you
- adopt the states and traits of the Naturally Seductive Man

For those of you unfamiliar with Major Mark, he co-trained for many years with Ross Jeffries in Speed Seduction seminars and it's a well known secret that he is one of the world's greatest hypnotists.

For more info www.trucor.com.

New Dating/Seduction Seminars & Workshop in Montreal by DOC!
Doc, who many of you know from his all too rare but outstanding posts on this list, on Mystery's Lounge, and the Montreal Lair, is bringing his seminars and speed dating events to Montreal. Previously they were mainly held in Toronto as part of the Learning Annex, Doc is now setting it up here and plans to hold events on a monthly basis.

The website is www.set nalife.com. The first seminars should be held shortly in Montreal. Registrations available on the website. The events are Dating Secrets for Women, a 3 Hour seminar (cost $50) and Dating Secrets for Guys; a Guide to The Art of Dating (also 3 hours and $50). There will also be a speed dating event in the evening for $50. You can contact Doc by email at seduction.school@sympatico.ca

Doc's next round of Seminars started last Sunday, June 6th in Montreal. Full-weekend Dating Makeover workshops will be offered about 2 weeks afterwards (including a half day with a personal stylist, video tape analysis of body language, and live practice sessions with dating coaches – beautiful women who will give the guys on the spot feedback on how they come across and what to improve). Other Montreal dates for June, July and August will be coming up soon. As well, there are some Toronto and New York dates for this summer that will soon be posted. If there is a group of 10 or more guys interested in a seminar (or 5 guys for a workshop, he would consider making a special trip to their city).

This is a great opportunity to learn from a real master.

Jlaix (reposted from Mystery's Lounge with permission of the author)
TR Jeffy's First Threesome (Scotch Not Included)
From the makers of Jeffy’s First Stripper and Jeffy’s Drunken Bar Bitches, it’s Jeffy’s First Threesome! Yes, your child will ADORE Jeffy’s First Threesome… not for girls under eighteen as small parts may cause choking...

So yep. I did it. After all these threesome reports, I wanted in on the action myself. Just so happens that my new girl ChessClub is into chicks. Then again, aren't they all? ChessClub is aware that I am deep into the game, and knows of my skills; hell, I did after all systematically fuck all of her friends just to spite her. So one day she asks me if I could teach her some moves so we could pick up chicks together. I said, “You want to do this? Because I CAN do it. I know how. If you’re serious, we can make this happen.” She agreed, and I gave her a quick rundown on inner game, Secret Society, routines, etc. At El Rio, I ran some sets while she watched, then got her participating. She made some errors at first, but she is a quick learner. It also helps that she is a hot chick.

So anyway, last night we went to the karaoke bar. I was peacocked out with the blinky shirt saying “trying too hard…” We met some friends there and settled in for some karaoke action. I sang “All Out of Love” and “Eye of the Tiger”. I only had one beer because my free drink bartender wasn't there. No shitty scotch for Jlaix. Awww.

I'm looking around for targets. Nothing there. But then some chick comes in by herself. She looks kind of cute, but I can't tell. I tell ChessClub to look at her. She says, “That could work.” So I go over and open her.

I open with an old school favorite, Dental Floss into Jay-Z. I say, “OMG, you gotta tell my friends,” and pull her over to the group. Then after introducing her, I start blasting routines. Little Sister, Alternate Girl Name, Trust Comfort and Connection, Balloons in da Park, Trust Test, A-Crowd, OMG You’re a Libra?, and Too Similar.

I take my girl aside and tell her to run some routines on her as well. I give her Total Badgirl, Whisper Nevermind, Fat Girl Personality and FuckMarryKill. I also tell her to use the chick’s name a lot. She layers them into the convo while I spool off Not Boyfriend Material, Eskimo Kiss, All American Girl, Sincere Compliment and Total Weirdo. During this, our body language and voice projection are tight as fuck, we’re cutting the fuck in, HARD. I try to run the CUBE on her, but her attention span is too short. I make her qualify herself on my standards “I'm so sick of dating these chicks with plastic surgery who do tons of drugs. You’re not like that are you?” She says, “NO that’s why I LEFT LA!” Whatever. I ask the chick if she’s a good kisser, and she says she is, so I check for myself. Then ChessClub kisses her. The target tells ChessClub, “You’re a better kisser.” That, ChessClub tells me later, is when she knew it was ON.

I tell ChessClub, “Ok, now we # close her.” ChessClub says, “Fuck that shit, let’s extract that ass!” I'm like, “OK. Watch.” Soooo… I tell the target, “Do you like basketball? Yeah? Wow, that’s awesome, because I have a basketball court in my house, yes it’s FUCKING AWESOME! Holy fuck, you HAVE to see it! Let’s go right now, we'll shoot some HORSE. It’s SO COOL!! Let’s go, we'll come back and sing more after, I live a couple blocks away.” In other words, I totally oversold my place, based on my lame-ass Nerf Hoop that I have in my room. We get in the car. On the way there, the target says something about how she had some breakup recently and that’s why she went out to the bar alone. “I needed this,” she says. Holy fuck, this is gonna be too easy.

Upon arrival, I bust out some Two-Buck Chuck merlot (Charles Shaw wine, available at Trader Joe’s for $1.99; a very good wine for the value, tastes like a ten dollar wine) and we begin shooting Nerf Hoops. After a game of PIG, I run So Genuine. Then I say, “Wow, I had the most awesome experience last week. I was visiting my friend Steve in San Diego, he’s this really cool shaman/guru/transformative healer dude, and he showed me this AWESOME new massage technique. Two of his students did it to me, it is called Dual Induction Massage. What it is, their hands move on you SIMULTANEOUSLY with the exact same movements. It’s so awesome. Here, let me show you…” And I lie ChessClub down on my bed and we start doing it to her as I instruct the target. Then I say, “My turn,” and take my shirt off and they do it to me, I say, “Oh it is so relaxing. Oh.” Then, I say to the target, “Your turn. Take this shit off,” and remove her shirt. ChessClub and I start in on her, this time though we make it more sexy, like, rubbing he
r tits and ass. Then I start making out with ChessClub while we massage her. Seriously, we almost started laughing, it seemed so absurd that this was actually working! Then, I just move ChessClub’s head down and she starts making out with the target. I take off the target’s pants because, “I wanna lick it.” From there it’s academic. I fuck ChessClub from behind while she eats the target’s pussy. Both of them suck my cock. We do three way makeout, then I fuck the target while fingering ChessClub, who is kissing her. Holy shit, this is incredible. I finish off, then fuck the target again while ChessClub watches, smoking a cigarette. Weird wild stuff! Like a wild and wooly semiautomatic truck bomb!

We lie there for a while. The chick says, “Wow, when I went out tonight I didn't think THAT was gonna happen!” I'm like, “Yeah, me neither!” haha hah. The chick leaves.

Jeffy’s First Threesome. ChessClub gives me the hi-five. What a flawless execution. I love this silly little ChessClub girl, she is so awesome and special to me. I say “We’re gonna have to do this again, except next time, with a hotter chick.” The chick was like a 7, but hey, whatever. I snuggle and cuddle with ChessClub, then go to sleep. I dream about picking up chicks.

Halbmike:
> Toecutter: Take a reality check at your lives, fellas. Turn off the bullshit for a second, and examine your own relationships with women. How is it going? Is the community fucking you up? If so, QUIT! Like now. Quit the fucking thing. Get on with your life. Because how would you feel if you could fast forward to 10 years later, and it is still the same as today? 10 years fucking fly, man! You will be 10 years older before you know it. Would you be happy to be still chasing tail and getting the same results that you are getting at the moment? Or do you envisage some change which will reform your life? Embrace the fact that change may not come, and you are listening to the WRONG guys here. We could be fucking up your life. We are players.

Halbmike: GREAT POST TOECUTTER!!!!! The pursuit of women should be an enhancement to your life. Most people don't need tons of babes, they just need one stable, sane honest girl with OK looks, healthy attitude, and healthy attitude toward sex, fun personality & shared common interests. At the same time, GUYS HAVE MADE RAPID & SEEMINGLY MIRACULOUS TRANSFORMATIONS IN THIS COMMUNITY. Many guys have gone from geek and loner to player within a period of months. Guys have lived out their fantasies.Also, Major Mark & ESPECIALLY SS can help many of the people MTL can't. SS/ROSS JEFFRIES can help people to easily meet lots of beautiful babes outside of clubs and bars. You don't have to be a Player to get great results with SS. I think a few guidelines are especially helpful:
1) ALWAYS LEAVE A PERSON BETTER THAN WHEN YOU FOUND THEM
2) LIVE WITH INTEGRITY -- Live as if everything you do will be front page news headlines
3) MASTERY WITH WOMAN STARTS BY MASTERING YOURSELF
4) IMPROVE YOUR SUCCESS WITH WOMAN BY IMPROVING YOURSELF -- i.e. develop new interests, improve your communication, get a new skill set, become more interesting, more adventurous, more financially stable, improve your body, improve your health & energy, learn to dress better. In sum any improvement in yourself and your life will help improve your success with women
5) ENJOY YOUR LIFE -- Woman like people who are confident feel good about themselves and enjoy their life. I think a big part of this is the way it effects people energetically. I think this is part of the reason that practices like Yoga, Tai Chi, meditation, and Chi Kung help make people more successful with woman.
Enjoying your life means having outside interests and hobbies. You need some substance in addition to fluff. Woman want to find out that you're interested in something more than SS and getting into their pants.
Along the lines of what Toecutter is saying, I am presently very devoted and faithful to an average ordinary looking girl. I've lived my fantasies. I still have woman who are 10+ babes who call me regularly, but I'm not interested in them. My average babe is beyond extraordinary in other ways. Do not overlook all of the other aspects that go into a great LTR.

(Commenting on:)
> Vini Hollywood (reposted from Mystery's Lounge with permission of the author):
I have a friend that will never under any circumstances validate a woman.
He will go as far as fooling around, and he is still "pushing" with talk about his or her girlfriends i.e.
"do you think your girlfriend is into me" "do you think you can hook me up with so-and-so" and according to
him - they rip his clothes off.
Also, he brings them to places where he is guaranteed to get distracted by other people. Ultimately he ends up ignoring or being pre-occupied by everyone else. He will pop in and out to check his date's temperature but will always leave them with something that will stew in their mind. For example,"man.... so-and-so told me a juicy secret about X ... you're gonna love this" and disappear.
When he calls them he will say something like.... "I'm on my way somewhere.. in traffic.. entertain me" and threaten to hang up on them " .... what?... this conversation is gonna be over."
His pitch to hang out is something like this..... "yeah... you can come... but I'll be busy most of the eve" implying that SHE is the one asking him to hang out.
He also told me a story about a girl lying in his bed while he called his primary and talked to her for a long time - pimp like - while the other girl sat and listened. He got off the phone, talked about how hot his primary is and then banged the girl in his bed.
So the question is: how else can you build sexual tension without validating a girl?

Halbmike: Vini, your friend is on the money!!! Just a quick note -- this isn't just about not validating. Note the following:
1) He isn't negging them
2) He is presenting himself as busy and exciting -- demoing that he has a life
3) He is creating a scarcity frame
4) He is using social proof.
5) He is leaving them wanting more
6) Most importantly he is presenting himself as a challenge
7) He is showing that he is in demand
Another method that can work really well with tactics like Vini described is to be silent, smiling, and contemplative. When she starts to talk tell her that you're in the middle of thinking about some things and tell her that if she waits a few minutes you will be able to give her your full attention and listen to her. This catches them off guard. It creates a major challenge when they realize that they can't seem to capture your attention at least not attention on demand. Before they start their story you might also put a little pressure on them i.e. " I hope this story is entertaining enough".

Pimp(jesus)stylez:
Hey guys,

So here I'm reporting about 3 days that changed my life like I would never have thought before. About me: I have been active in the community for 3 years now. First I started with SS and NLP and later read asf and using the things I learned there. Then I got into DYD and that helped me a lot to get some insights into what seduction really is about. I used what I learned with some success over the last few years, but I never got the constant results I wanted.
At the end of last year, I started the German Lair and met with guys to wing all over Germany. That motivated me to do a two month trip to the States in March and April to meet as many guys from the community there to learn and find the system that works for me.
I travelled from NYC to LA all over the country and met a lot of cool guys.
The highlights of my travel was the PUA Summit in LA and the DYD Mastery Seminar.
I met the guys from RSD and all the other big players in the game.
I learned a lot from them, but in the end something was missing for me…I generally don't like to make pickup too theoretical, that’s why I was not fully satisfied with the system of asf and RSD. I met TD and his game is crazy good, but I saw naturals getting success without all the routines and 25 points and so I was always searching for a different and easier system for PU.
When I met Nightlife in San Diego he told me about Badboy and I started to getting curious to meet him and see his style of PU.

Finally last weekend that happened. Badboy did a workshop here in Germany in Munich and 7 other guys and I went there to have a blast.
I met Badboy on the morning of the first day. He called me on my cell phone and Renegade and I went to meet him in his hotel room.
My first impression was that bb is a really cool guy and he talked to us like old friends instantly. It’s easy to like bb, because he's an extreme funny guy and full of incredible positive energy.
So we spend the whole morning with Badboy, met the other guys and finally Nightlife arrived too. bb already started teaching in a café and we got a lot of attention from everybody around.
The seminar was held at the VIP room of the Hard Rock Café in Munich and we started at like 3 PM.

First day…
was about attraction. After some stories from bb we started to do games like word association and it was more like fun than learning. Everybody was getting more relaxed now and we started feeling the group dynamics. So we learned today that being relaxed is the most important thing for PU and bb showed us how to do that really easy – try to be nervous and totally relax – you can't do it!
Then we trained real life situations with each other to learn how to approach right from the beginning. This is very different from TD and Mystery – you go in direct and catch the attention of the target by being totally alpha and comfortable while approaching.
We also learned that anything is good for an opener and that you don't need routines at all.
bb demonstrated this by showing us how to have a conversation with just one word and still do an effective PU – crazy!
We learned what to convey in the first seconds and how to give the girl the feeling that she's picking you up. One more thing I learned was to always have the strongest frame, so you can't be blown out of a set unless you decide to be.
This first day was amazing. bb was having fun with the waitress and she was all over him.
I felt how nervous some guys were and so I was looking forward to the evening to see how bb would get them to approach.
What I really liked about the seminar was the interactive training. Totally different from other Workshops/Seminars. You get as much theory as necessary and the rest is real situation simulations with Badboy. bb also helped every guy individually according to his personal problems.

First Night.
We went to some bars/clubs, but not much was going on. So we went on to a big club in Munich called “Pascha.” This is more of a high class club with a lot of social circle people and a VIP area. I started approaching some sets outside, but I was still not in the best mood.
We divided into two groups because we had problems getting in the club with the big cock farm.
So I was with Nightlife and some of the other guys at the Pascha and I started gaming the first set at the outside bar. 3 set, but 2 of them were really bitchy and I went on to go to help Magnum in his set. Occupied one girl and instantly got attraction (lot of IOIs). So I got into rapport soon and I felt how she was attracted to me. I started to apply the things about Body Language (BL) and being relaxed that bb taught me and it worked. I just felt good and conversation was very easy.
There were some platforms with pillows outside and I laid down on them and starting approaching while lying totally relaxed. Just got good reactions and it was amazing how quick I got IOIs from girls. Sarged some sets outside this way and was very near to kiss closing (KC) one girl, after a 15 minute convo (most of it rapport), but then her mother called on her cell phone and that fucked up my rapport so her gf took her and they went to the dance floor.
I went to the inside area, most of the time winging with Magnum (he's my favourite wing and an extremely cool guy).
Approached some sets inside but had problems to get into good BL on the dance floor. So we went outside again and I sarged some party girl, who was hugging with her gf all the time. Magnum and I managed to separate them, but I didn't isolate my target fast enough (Nightlife showed me later how to do that). Again I got IOIs like crazy and we went to the dance floor with the girls to start some grinding. It was a lot of fun. I just took my target and played around with her. Most of the time I didn't do much as far as routines go, mostly just bullshit I made up. On the dance floor I had a KC with her, but both girls were in such a high fun state, that I couldn't get enough rapport to get that to go further. Magnum and I decided to leave the dance floor, because we had some problems isolating the girls and separating them.
Later I was in set with Nightlife and it was amazing how easy he got the target to isolate and to start asking him rapport questions. This principle of instant isolation after the direct approach is an amazing technique that I´ve never seen before Badboy – and it's very effective.
So after being tired from approaching all night, I took a rest by sitting at the bar, totally relaxed and with a BL like “Jesus” which is how Nightlife called described it.
One girl came next to me and I saw her giving IOIs instantly. So I just got more relaxed and while she was ordering a drink she approached me. Later she told me it was just my BL and this image of “I don't give a shit” that made me so interesting. I was surprised how easy it was to get attraction, by just being different without any words or routines.
So I teased her and she started to qualify herself to me. Next thing she's feeding me with her vodka Red Bull, while I sat on my chair and didn't move at all. From the beginning she did most of the talking and she started asking a lot of rapport questions.
Then she suggested going to another club and I allowed her to take me there.
The other guys were gone already and the rest of the night I spent with this 34 year old HB, while she was buying me drinks all the time and spending like 100 EUR just on me that night.
Unfortunately this situation was very new to me so I got really drunk after all the cocktails she bought me and she took advantage of that…next time I will be prepared. I also learned that personal space is bullshit and an invention of society. bb explained the society matrix to us and how you have to understand it to see what's really going on.
This day we also learned the AMOG handshake and some very simple AMOG Tactics, that are enough to get most AMOGs out of the way. I first thought bb would get into a lot of trouble by acting that extreme alpha in clubs, but I learned that if you have the strongest frame, that everybody with authority like bouncers would respect you and won't disturb you.
“How would Dennis Rodman act in another country where nobody knows him – why would he still be a celebrity?”
The most important thing I learned from this night: girls are like stones – move them!

Second night…
After some sleep and a lot of energy drinks I was ready to go out and felt much more awake than the whole day. Just the energy of bb gives you so much power…it's incredible.
This night we went to “Nachtgalerie”, a real big club with different areas.
We all passed the bouncers except one guy. They didn't like him and so he and Nightlife went for a private lesson to another club. Just as we arrived in the club, bb started instantly pushing guys into sets. After 5 minutes everybody was talking to some girls and bb was like the coach watching and helping out. It was crazy. I moved from set to set, winging. Winging with Magnum again, I opened one set near the dance floor with “Hey, I think this guy over there is checking you out – you want to get to know him?” Very easy and we had rapport talk for like 15 minutes. Then we left, because she was not that exciting and we were hot for doing more sets. Next set worked good. I approached a 2 set and my target was giving me IOIs again from the beginning. Easy to get her into rapport – no routines and she was totally into me.
We went to the outside area and sarged a 6 set out there. Finally it was Magnum, bb and I having lots of fun with them. bb says let's them rate us from 1-10 and we rate them and it's a hell of a lot of fun. The girls are totally into us and try to get rapport, but we just have fun with them.
Then bb stops a girl and in 5 minutes we get her to an incredibly high energy state. Magnum, bb and I are doing funny routines and jokes like the rating game and the ice cream story.
She's very thin and we accuse her of being fat and after she says she's pregnant, bb is feeling her belly and acting like a baby is kicking. Now she's laughing all the time and one moment we push her so hard that she's laughing for 5 minutes and can't stop. I see she is giving IOIs to me all the time and I had already gotten a lot of kino with her by role playing games like: “Let's get outside and fight” or “She's my wife and I need to protect her from these bad guys.”
bb gives me a sign and I take her away and sit down to isolate her and KC. That moment her gfs come and drag her away. She's coming back and begs me to come with her. I go with her to her gfs, but manage to isolate her again, after they see that I'm cool. We go back to the outside area and sit down, but I get a problem with state control...can't get her into rapport state and wait too long for KC. This was maybe just a few seconds, but just too long and so she's into a high state and when her friends come by again she leaves to the dance floor.
I talk to bb and he tells me what I did wrong. But to waste no time he's already pushing me into a set to AMOG 2 Scottish guys while another workshop-attendee is gaming the girls.
It's very easy to get the guys into talking and I also do the AMOG-handshake on them and they don't realize how quickly the girls are being gamed by somebody else. Since I'm not there to talk to guys, I go on with bb and he's pushing me into sets like every minute. I don't have time to think and so I approach any target he shows me. Very funny since most of the girls don't realize what's going on. Bb also shows me how to AMOG easily by going up to two muscular guys and he AMOGs them with almost no talk at all so that I can game the girls…totally crazy.
Next I meet with Magnum again and we work the club, moving from set to set. My new opener is: “Are you from Bavaria?” – “I really want to learn how to speak Bavarian-German. Can you teach me some cool words?”
That works like crazy and I have a lot of fun pronouncing every word wrong, so they have to correct me all the time.
At the bar, I go instantly into Jesus-BL and of course it's still working. I run some good sets with Magnum and he's #closing a cute chick with the cube. We approach very high energy and push girls into our frame. So we take their hands and lead them to the dance floor or another area and we just go in with not much talking or no talking at all, most of it is BL.
For example, as we pass some cute blonde girls, we just make EC, grab them and take them and dance like crazy for one song, pushing them around and stuff.
All the other guys are already gone and we still walk around, having fun like crazy.
When we leave we feel like there are no targets left that we didn't talk to this evening…fucking insane! Next day bb tells me girls he approached always asked “are you a friend of pimpstylez?”…seems like I was the most popular person that evening in the club.
We have so much fun, that we almost come to late to the Seminar.
This day is all about lifestyle. Bb tells us what lifestyle we need to attract girls.
You need to have a different lifestyle to get the HB9/10s and keep them around.
He tells us why C&F is bad for your game when you use direct game and Alpha-BL.
Interesting is also how to integrate PU in your life so you don't need to become a sargeaholic who goes out 7 nights a week to do nothing but sarging girls.
A lot of the stuff that was new to me were very small things you do and don't do, but it all made sense and I had never heard them anywhere else before.
With bb-method, you don't need to worry about LMR and ASD, because the girls are picking you up and want you to fuck them. That’s a totally different perspective, but it all makes sense to me and works like I would see later that day…
Being congruent with what you do is most important with the direct game that bb teaches. That's why most guys don't get it over the Internet. I didn't get it by reading bb's posts, but after seeing him and learning it from him, it's totally different. Many guys say direct game doesn't work, but that's just because you are not congruent with it…watching and listening to bb it became so clear and very easy…you have to see it to understand it fully.
Another lesson of the day was how to separate your social circle and why that is so important.
bb talks about what he does with girls to give them unforgettable experiences and fun like they never had in their lives. That's important for 9s and 10s because most of the time they have a very boring life.
At the end bb helps every student again with their sticking points and gives them exercises for that. He also talks about wearing good playboy clothes, so you're congruent with your approach.
We end the seminar earlier this day, because we want to be in the club not too late.
Everybody is happy with the seminar and I had no questions left to know. It's like I got a new and very easy picture of PU now and I'm really excited to test it this night.

Third night…
We go to a club called 4004. It's a huge club area with many different floors and an outdoor area. There were also a lot of pillows and places to relax, which is very important for bb-PU. We take the subway to go to the club and have so much fun on the way already. It's like we're all good buddies since high school and everybody is excited to go to the field.
For me this was a very important difference to the game of most of the guys in the US. They teach PU, but don't have fun with students. They push you into sets, but way too serious. bb is more like a cool guy to hang out with and he's teaching you PU by the way. This gives every student so much energy that you can't have fear of approaching at all. I haven't met many people in my life that I enjoyed hanging out with as much as I did with bb. And he's also the most optimistic and positive guy I know. You can't not have fun with Badboy. You can’t have a bad mood with Badboy…it's not possible.
So we came to the club…guys started street approaching on the way and in front of the club already. When I came in the club my mood was good, but not like crazy. But no time to think. Badboy is pushing me in set already. We are very early and there are not many targets in the club now. But that doesn't matter. I look around and all the guys are in set already…crazy!
My new opener is “Can you paddle?” The theme of the party is pirates and so I make up a story that we have a ship and we need strong people to paddle. That's fun, because I felt their muscles to see if they are strong and then rejecting them and follow up with “Can you cook?”
I just make up stories on the fly like bb taught us and using extreme relaxed BL.
Often Magnum would join me after I opened a 2 set or reverse and we have crazy fun teasing the girls and moving them around the club. Lots of space gives me the opportunity to use best BL possible and I get IOIs from every girl around now.
This evening I go in rapport very quickly and easily. For example, I approach a 3 set at the bar. Sit with them and take up a lot of space. AMOG friend comes and sits with us and I give him the AMOG handshake and tell him he must be a player to be here with so many girls. He gets insecure and doesn't say one more word for the rest of the time I'm in set. I do the pirate story and the girls like it. One of them gives me heavy IOI and can't stop talking to me.
In the outside area I sarge with Magnum again and he opens a 2 set. I go in and we do the pirate story. I go in, make myself relaxed with BL, take space, so all the people have to walk around me. My target is a cute blonde and I start by asking her stuff like “are you adventurous?”,
“Are you spontaneous?” She says she's not and I say I'll teach you how to be spontaneous.
Since I had already gotten a lot of IOIs from her, I go into rapport. No routines at all just talking about her. I don't answer her questions direct, but also not C&F, so I get more and more interesting to her. Magnum is coming over while I talk and correcting my BL like Nightlife told him (thanks for that bro!). Her gf is leaving us alone and doesn't CB at all. So I say let's go inside and find a nice place to relax. I take her to a couch with pillows with good BL again. Magnum and Gilli come to me and say Badboy said KC! So next thing I do is turn her to me and kiss. Too fucking easy! I don't make out with her here, just kissing for the next time. In between, I do rapport and some cold reading. She likes it and her gf comes and says they want to leave. She says she doesn't and I said ok stay. She says ok and I say great you're becoming more and more spontaneous. Next thing I suggest we go somewhere else and talk about my hotel that is really cool. We go outside and she ask where we go? I say my hotel! She i
s ok with it and we take the taxi. I don’t know what the other guys did the rest of the night, but we had lot of fun.
No ASD or LMR, I can't believe it…it was so easy. Funny thing is she says: Hope you don't get into trouble with your gf now? (“Because I seduced you”)…LOL…
4 in the morning I sit in the lobby with bb and renegade and we talk about the workshop experience. Everybody is amazed by the 3 days.
Next day I meet bb in the lobby before checking out. After 3 days he's a real cool friend to me and it's crazy how he put all his energy into helping us. He says he's totally burned out after workshop, because he wanted to give us the best he could with all his energy…he did an amazing job! In the train on my way home, I think about this experience and I'm sure I had the three best days of my life. I came there with some expectation, but not too high because I've seen a lot good PUAs already in the US and expected something similar. But it was totally different.
I understand the matrix now. I feel like all my questions about PU are answered and the rest is just going out there and be the fucking man!
For me this is the best model of PU I've ever seen. It's easy and fun and it works. I can stop reading other theories, I can stop learning routines, I can stop spending money on seduction products and I can start having fun and get what I want in life.
I know a lot of people will read this and won't believe me, but I don't care. I feel good, I know that I can get what I deserve and I got more life experience and knowledge in 3 days than other people get in their whole life. Thanks to Badboy and Nightlife…I never felt like a student at the workshop, I always felt like a friend and that was a big part of getting success for me!!!

It's so fucking easy!!!

Mark B:
Lets look at some interesting parallels between seduction and bodybuilding. Over the last 16 years that I have weight trained I have seen literally hundreds of guys come and go, sign up for a membership, train for a while, get nowhere, seek out some magic formula, try that to no success, and then quit in frustration. Inevitably, some of these guys desperate for some measure of success begin to try various "magic supplements" such as creatine, l-glutamine, soya, whey or other powders. Invigorated by their new found "success formula" they come back to the gym, only to fail again. Many go the steroid route only to meet the same fate either by not getting any results or have them disappear after their cycle wears off.
Many of them come to someone like me for advice. When I advise them to give up their powders, take time to learn about nutrition, proper form, the need for heavy basic exercises and squats, many regress back to their get big quick powders and other gizmos.Their problem is the desire for quick results without understanding the process or what is involved. They want quick results and want to get as big as possible without understanding the fundamentals such as nutrition, learning your body, proper form and hard, intense effort.
To get anywhere in the sport it takes a good 5 years to develop a great physique, most want that in a matter of months. It takes a year at least to learn proper form, then another 2-3 years to learn how your body responds to nutrition and various routines and only then can you seek to take your body to the level right for you. It takes hard consistent day in day out hard solid training based on free weight exercises and eating at least 5-6 times per day, a diet high in protein and rich in good carbs and low in fat, over years upon years coupled with paying attention to see what works and what does not and making adjustments as you go along. And even then you can go through periods of frustration. But most guys either don't have the patience or the belief that such a simple plan over time will give them consistent long term results. They want it now.
To me the same issue exists in the world of seduction. Most guys are not willing to accept that it takes time and effort to learn how to seduce women. I takes several years to of talking to and meeting women on a daily basis, learning from them, understanding them, and doing what it takes to succeed IN THE REAL WORLD.
Most guys that do not succeed with women tend to expect women to show an interest in them first and pursue them. When this does not happen, they purchase or seek out some "system" designed to attract women. When this fails they either give up or seek out another so called system. When this fails they become masters of the study of the art of seduction, learning how to talk to women and what to do, without actually going out there and doing it in real life. And only when they feel they have the right set of words do they feel they are ready and when you go out there, they fail once and then shrink back into their study to perfect their system.
As in bodybuilding, what it takes is years of consistent effort in approaching, meeting and being with women. It means talking to at least 5 women each and every day. It means going for what you want and assuming that you as a man will have to initiate everything with her. And then once in the process, learning what works for you and what does not work. Sometimes if the guy has talent this comes to him within months, for other guys it takes a few years. But most guys are not that patient. They want it now but as in bodybuilding there is no secret other than day in day out approaching women and suggesting some form of activity together - and then learning what works and what does not. That's it.

PROMOS & REVIEWS SECTION (there are NO paid ads in this list and never have been. The "commercial" section is distinguished by the "--------------" separators):

DAVID NEWS:

New things are happening at Be Relentless - we are working on a special project which will be totally unique. David has been doing a lot more personal consultations lately and will hopefully have his newsletter out shortly. We still need questions by email and it would be appreciated if you could ask David about any related topic that could be of interest (how to find, meet, attract, close and keep women, etc.).

Please send them to him at david@be-relentless.com. I would recommend you copy me as well (cliff@cliffslist.com) so I will make sure they get answered.

All subscribers of these emails will be given a free subscription and, as here, you can unsubscribe at any time. I know that you will find his comments and advice to be pretty unique and very useful. We are also making progress on the long awaited book which we hope will be ready relatively soon now.

The tapes of the David Seminar are now available and are being shipped upon receipt of your order, but please allow 4-6 weeks for delivery. You can visit the website at www.be-relentless.com and orders should be made through paypal (go to www.paypal.com and send money to sales@be-relentless.com) if you need some other way to make payment, inquire at info@be-relentless.com. This product comes on two DVD discs for a total of approximately 6 1/2 hours of playing time. The price is $230 USD + $20 USD for the DVD which covers shipping and handling anywhere in the world. Inquire about shipping by overnight courier. These tapes are now available in a sound only version also.

Private in person or telephone consultations with David are available. David is particularly intuitive with regard to your specific individual problems with certain women. You can get on the phone, answer his questions on the situation, and he will give you very insightful advice on how to succeed in your particular mission.

PLEASE NOTE: This David is not to be confused with David DeAngelo of www.doubleyourdating.com (who has posted some great stuff here under the name "Sisonpyh"), or David Shade (of www.davidshade.com).

Blake Richards has put out a new ebook that looks very interesting. Check it out here: www.social-mastery.com/Game.html

Real Social Dynamics WORKSHOPS:
I highly recommend that you check these guys out. Anyone interested in attending, email Papa at papa@realsocialdynamics.com with the subject "WORKSHOP" and mention that you heard about it from Cliff's List. Also note: RSD will consider working out payment plans to make their workshop affordable - mention this to them.

Real Social Dynamics (realsocialdynamics.directtrack.com/ad/1/CD11 ):
Learn what works in seminar, and then jump directly into the field and watch the instructors demonstrate and teach it live. Stop feeling the fear of not knowing what to do ...

CLASSROOM SEMINAR
Montreal Seminar - $300 - July 10-11, 2004
Amsterdam Seminar - $300 - August 28-29, 2004
London Seminar - $300 - September 4-5, 2004
In-Field Workshops ($200 deposit required for signup)

IN-FIELD WORKSHOP
Los Angeles Workshop - $600 - June 11-13, 2004
Montreal Workshop - $600 - July 9-11, 2004
Amsterdam Workshop - $600 - August 27-29, 2004
London Workshop - $600 - September 3-5, 2004

INDIVIDUALIZED BOOTCAMP
Los Angeles Bootcamp - $1500 - June 18-20, 2004
Los Angeles Bootcamp - $1500 - June 25-27, 2004
Los Angeles Bootcamp - $1500 - July 16-18, 2004
Los Angeles Bootcamp - $1500 - July 23-25, 2004
Los Angeles Bootcamp - $1500 - July 30-August 1, 2004

Go to realsocialdynamics.directtrack.com/ad/1/CD11 to signup for these events on their schedule.

Mystery Method Workshops:
What method are YOU using?
If you are opening groups (or sets: 2-sets, 3-sets, mixed sets, etc) of people with the 3 second rule by stacking indirect openers (including false opinion openers), false time constraining (discovered by Style), demonstrating a higher value to your romantic interest’s peer group with high octane DHVs while she obliquely observes (locking her into her own set with a prop), and simultaneously performing false disqualifiers (which include negs) on her with the intension of disarming her peergroup and then isolating her to rebuild her self-esteem once you have enough IOIs (indicators of interest) so you may share in a comfort and trust building effort and then build in a jealousy subplot to solidify her attraction for you, you are using The Mystery Method.
If instead you are only approaching women who are alone, you are greatly limiting your options and quite likely alienating your target's friends. Do you want a lonely woman (why is she lonely?) or a woman who already has a healthy social lfe? Truth is, healthy women have healthy relationships ... sometimes good friendships with guys. Like it or not, you will have to meet these women with men in her group.
Women of beauty are rarely found alone. Don't miss the opportunity to meet and attract them WITH social proof from her very own peergroup. Group Approach Theory (GAT - created by me) improves your options and increases the chances for attraction DRAMATICALLY over Single Approach Theory (SAT).
The guys who are GREAT in this game KNOW that they can improve their game ten-fold through seminars and personal coaching in-field workshops. Think about this: Why did so many of the greats who use my GAT (Style, Tyler D., MTL_PUA, and others) take my seminars and workshops? What started them off to greatness in this game? Can you see the co-relation may in fact be a causation?
If you have NEVER taken a seminar or workshop before, it's time to finally reconsider. They are life-transforming. I have conducted dozens of them. I am currently conducting a bootcamp and will accept only 5 people. Workshops and seminars were for many of the greats THE difference between great success and failure. If you are ready, give me a call and sign up. If you have any questions, give me a shout at 323-219-8696 (Mystery) because email sucks, or visit www.Mysterymethod.com and email me your #. We need to talk. Man to man.

Swinggcat has published a new ebook which you can check out at his website at www.realworldseduction.com. Those of you who remember his outstanding posts here will be anxious to get this as soon as possible. Highly recommended.

Ross Jeffries Speed Seduction Seminars (www.speedseduction.net/)

Advanced Speed Seduction® Seminars
Schedule 2004
Location Dates
London, England September 3, 4, 5

Speed Life Seminars
Schedule 2004
Location Dates
Cancun, Mexico November 7 thru 13

Your Mind in Business
Schedule 2004
Location Dates
Dallas, TX June 21-25

Major Mark (www.trucor.com) has announced his schedule for 2004:

*Beyond Seduction In Montreal -- July 16-18

Cliff's Comment: MONTREAL!!!!

*Introduction To Hypnosis -- The New Curriculum -- Las Vegas September 20-24
This year we were asked by a national hypnosis group to develop a New Curriculum for the training of hypnotists -- one which would reflect the absolute best of what has always worked while incorporating our own cutting-edge discoveries. We wanted a curriculum that was so comprehensive in explication and exercise that the graduates could walk into an internship anywhere in the world, secure that they were the best-trained hypnotists in the place. The result is being rolled out over five days in Las Vegas. This is your chance to immerse yourself in the most comprehensive approach to powerful, positive, permanent change ever presented!

Send mail to Cassi@trucor.com with questions or comments about these seminars.

Call to register: 419 882-8543 or go to www.trucor.com

Double Your Dating LIVE! NEW Seminar! We will be reviewing all of the new DYD products here soon, including the monthly interview series in which David DeAngelo interviews "Dating Gurus" such as Ben (), David X, and many others.

2004 Tentative Seminar Schedule:

London, England, July.
New York September.
Las Vegas beginning of December.

You can order all your DYD products and register for seminars through this link: www.doubleyourdating.com/cl

Riker's Seduction Log - Live Seminar
If you always wanted to hear more field reports, with full details, and even some recordings, then this seminar is for you. Dave Riker (Ross's co-trainer for those of you who don't know him) spends about 3 hours each evening going through his personal Logs and notes and provides full reports on sarges, many from start to close (finish). And that's a full "close" by the way, not just an email address or phone number!
The seminar is held in conjunction with Ross Jeffries Speed Seduction Seminars. Ross's seminar is during the day (and Riker presents at that too) and then Riker does his seminar in the evening. And even if you do not attend Ross's seminar you can still attend Riker's.
For full details see the web page at: http://www.daveriker.com/logseminar/track/cl.htm (site is either inactive or no longer relevant)
Be sure to check out his "Reviews" page on his site. Many guys that have been in the game for a while, and attended a LOT of seminars, were just blown away by Riker's Log seminar.

Introducing 1 on 1 Badboy workshops:

Badboy is a Croatian PUA from Zagreb who has spent almost 4 years in the game. He is also a respected poster in Mystery's lounge.

To see some of his stuff, search for posts by "croBadboy" on mASF or read one of the recent issues of Cliff's list.
Workshops are 1 on 1 for 3 days.
Each day consists of a 4-hour seminar and 5 hours of active in-field work. Each night you will make 20-30 approaches with your teacher to get field experience. 1 on 1 training makes it possible to answer any questions you might have and cover the most important aspects of the game in detail. Teachings are tailored to your level in the game.
The basic structure of the workshop is:

Day 1:
Social intelligence/emotional intelligence
How to dress, peacocking vs. dressing style
Alpha-male bodylanguage secrets
Attitude (inner-game) and getting a good seductive voice
Difference between emotional and party type girls
Social dynamics in clubs (2sets/3sets/lonewolves), know your city
Openers (sets with males vs. only-girl sets)
Day 2:
Difference between PUing alone and with a wing
Different tools for getting attraction
Power of contrast (bad boy & nice guy in one)
Stealing their frames
Passing shit tests
Push-pull
Isolation tactics(2steps)
Day 3:
AMOG tactics (the AMOG handshake, group set AMOG destroyers)
Boyfriend destroyers
Passing LMR
Secrets of good sex
How to manage a good relationship
More bodylanguage secrets
How to turn Coffee dates into fuck-fest in just 1 hour
How to turn a 0$ date into a time she will never forget
Difference between PUing in different places (small towns, big cities, colleges and the difference between certain clubs and the girls who go there)
Badboy says he can write a pages of what he does with guys because it's not just PU. He opens their EYES to LIFE, to understand how to live successfully.
For more info, email Badboy at badboy@playboylifestyle.net. See Badboy's new website: www.playboylifestyle.net

NEW BADBOY WORKSHOPS IN RIO DE JANEIRO:
The dates are:
August 5-6-7
August 12-13-14
August 19-20-21
There are seats available now.
Price : $850
You can make a deposit ($100) for a workshop on Paypal and send money to: nightlife@playboylifestyle.net

Thundercat's Seduction Lair
Get the latest News, Rumors, Tips, Tricks, & Analysis on the Pick-Up and Seduction community! The site is updated daily with lots of free and exclusive content.
Also a good way to keep up with things without having to navigate mASF. Drop By TSL today! www.thundercatseductionlair.com

The Art of Approaching: Learn to meet ANY woman, ANY time, ANY where. The most difficult hurdle for most men to overcome is that of the initial Approach. This comprehensive eBook gives you over 35 unique Openers, as well as a step-by-step roadmap to help overcome your fear of approaching forever!
www.thundercatseductionlair.com/ebook.htm

Impact Interaction (www.impactinteraction.com) @ London
Angel Caido, RyobI and Lockstock have been running Workshops and Seminars in London since the beginning of the year. The workshops are small in size (trainer : student ratio of 2:1 as max), so students get personal attention on sticking points.
The workshops include:
- Basejump: For approach newbies who need to get internal game and basic attraction skills in gear
- Field Interaction: To perfect your bar/ club and street performance
- Solid Game: Everything good except lots of flakes? Few end results? End to end game sticking points covered…

For more information go to www.impactinteraction.com or contact them @ contact@impactinteraction.com.

Have you ever asked yourself...
* What does it take to make a woman feel totally comfortable making out with me - even if she barely knows me?
* How do I get women to WANT to sleep with me? After all, what good are all those "bedroom techniques" I learned if I don't even know how to get her back to my bedroom in the first place?
* Why do women melt around some guys, but they are totally unresponsive to me? What do they have that I don't?
Wouldn't it be nice if you knew a guaranteed way to "get physical" with any woman you go out with? Have you ever been on a date with a woman, and wondered *how* you can start "making out" with her? (by making out, I mean kissing, hugging, holding hands, etc.)
Jason King has just released a not new report that will teach you everything you need to know about getting *close* to a woman on a date.
Jason is an absolute master at making out with a woman on the first date. Whenever he goes out with a woman, he seems to put them under some kind of "love spell", and they want to make out with him more and more as the date progresses. By the end of the date, the women usually invent all kinds of excuses to invite him back to their place.
There is NO other person out there who is teaching these skills. If you've ever wanted to learn how to make out with a woman on the FIRST date... not weeks or months later... you MUST check out his site.
www.MakeoutMastery.com/

"Seduction Tips-Seduce the woman for you today"
www.pmmarketing.org/seductiontips.htm

Maximillian Hell:
I have a PU journal up on livejournal. Right now it's mostly just a record of my sarges--but comments are welcome.
www.livejournal.com/users/maximillianhell

Visit these sites (and give me your comments on their products):
http://www.sexualrapportmodeling.com/jump.php?a=2350 (site is either inactive or no longer relevant)
www.macktactics.com/
www.seductionformula.com
www.thejamesmethod.com/

Gunwitch has also entered the commercial game. Go to: hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/gunwitch

Daniel:
If you are looking for a wing and you are a guy from Romania, you can check on our forums at www.seductierapida.ro/forum and you might find one.

Carlos Xuma:
Time is running short for all of us, no matter how young or old you are. Don't waste precious years learning by trial and error (and most likely not at all). Get the information on how to improve your dating life TODAY. Make the changes you need to make to get the love, sex, and relationships that you want and DESERVE to have. Download THE DATING BLACK BOOK right now at: www.datingdynamics.com/ebookstore.htm

Ben:
Ben has a system and set of Tarot Cards that he his going to be launching soon. Find out more at his website.
P.S. Try magic words 'ben' 'rap' and 'nlp'.

A few sites to check out:
www.becomeaplayer.com

Mike PilinskI is the author of "Without Embarrassment: The Social Coward's Totally Fearless Seduction System"... a unique method of meeting girls that will have you making up for wasted time spent living in shy-guy hell from the very first moment you test it out. Check it Out Here => www.highstatusmale.com/.

David Wygant (www.whatsyourexcuse.com & www.mydatingagent.com).

Erick Kand has a new website that showcases Hypnosis Stage Shows for fun and entertainment: www.HypnosisEvents.com

The Foundations of Seduction
Hi, you know something? When it comes to seductionhey, when it comes to ANYTHING--how you feel has a huge impact on the results you get. But the way you feel doesn’t have to be determined by your surroundings, your expectations, others’ behavior, or the tides and stars. You can guide your own feelings. By doing so, you can adjust and enhance your results. You can replace frustration with the satisfaction of tangy, blood-red, salty-sweet resolve. When you can change the way you feel, you can change what you experience… and what you encounter… and then the world stands revealed as something you yourself partially create. Sometimes, to begin claiming the victories you deserve, all you need is a simple little tool: a way of channeling your own emotions. A way of tapping your inner fire. A way of taking that inner fire, and letting it melt your external obstacles. A way of changing all that you feel, about all that you experience. Of course, you may not need or want such a tool. For some, the ability to guide and drive one’s own emotional experience is pretty basic stuff. Some people shrug off rejection, feel wonderful almost all the time, and easily attain their goals. If that’s true for you, and you don’t think you can add to your abilitywell, you may be right. In that case, my new CD may not be for you. On the other hand, should you want a tool meant to ease the transition to seductive success… to productive success… to any kind of success, maybe this new CD can be of use to you. It’s called “Foundations of Seduction”. You can get it for $29.97 plus $5 Priority Mail s/h, by going here: hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/sexualkey Just enter “$34.97” into the FlexPay box and then email me at info@sexualkey.com with your shipping address and a note that you’ve ordered “Foundations of Seduction”. If you’re outside the U.S., please add an additional $5 for shipping. Have fun! JD hop.clickbank.net/?cliffslist/sexualkey

LOUIS AND COPELAND'S "FREEDOM WITH WOMEN" SEMINAR DATES

To find out more about "Freedom with Women", contact
davidc@howtosucceedwithwomen.com

HOW TO SUCCEED WITH WOMEN Ron Louis and David Copeland have their Mastery Program Tape series available. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes. howtosucceedwithwomen.com/

Advanced Macking:
In case you want a step by step guide on how to get into one-night stands, check out Anthony Berger's Advanced Macking manual. What makes it unique is that it is engineered towards making it happen the same night you meet them. To learn how to persuade women back to your pad, check out his site: www.advancedmacking.com/Discount.htm

Michael:
If you want to improve not only your game, but also your understanding of women on a deeper level, so that you can have more successful relationships, you've got to come out to The Dating Wizard Seminar. It is two FULL days of non-stop IMMERSION giving you a whopping,eye-opening insight into how to be successful with women on a whole new level.
Special guests TBA.
To learn more about this special seminar, go to:
www.thedatingwizard.com/
And follow the "Seminars" link.
And if you want to focus on sharpening your pick up skills, you can now arrange one-on-one workshops with me where I'll work exclusively with you to improve your skills. This workshop will take you out to malls, clubs, and the street to do all forms of pickup. For more info go to thedatingwizard.com/workshops.htm .
And if you haven't downloaded my eBook, "The Dating Wizard: Secrets to Success with Women", then that's the place to get started. It's about being THE MAN at all times, and keeping that frame of mind always. I've also included the concepts and info that I found to be most important regarding LTR relationships.
Download it now at:
www.thedatingwizard.com/
And follow the link to "About The Dating Wizard"

FREE HYPNOSIS MINI-TUTORIAL
The UltimateSeduction Yahoo group, at groups.yahoo.com/group/UltimateSeduction/ is sponsoring a free one-month mini-tutorial on Conversational Hypnosis. This tutorial, presented by the hypnotist Archangel, is sectioned off into five parts:

1. Trance Words
2. Rapport
3. Persuasion Anchoring
4. Pacing, &
5. Leading

Although less than halfway through, members are reporting some highly entertaining, and some startling, success stories. The UltimateSeduction group has the advantage of having more than a few women on-list, enabling members to get some very pointed straight talk on their techniques. There is nothing to memorize - only a handful of very simple, and very effective, techniques. The group is gaining about 200 new members a week and is lightly moderated.

Anyone may join the tutorial at: groups.yahoo.com/group/UltimateSeduction/