They will cheat on him with an exciting fun guy like me
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Cliff's List Website NEWS:
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CLIFF'S LIST TECHNICALITIES:
Here is the list of the last 5 emails that were sent out:
1) I said (without thinking) NO!
2) Like a wild and wooly semiautomatic truck bomb!
3) Nice girls will buy you the kind of burrito you like and bring it over, even when you didn’t ask for it.
4) BUT DOES LOGIC mean anything to women who are in this state?...
5) SPECIAL EDITION: DOC INTERVIEW
SPECIAL NOTES:
- All posts you see here have been submitted by the author, or permission granted by the author to be reposted here.
- Please go to the website and read the promo section as there are usually new things mentioned there in each new email I send out. There are also many non-commercial announcements in there (eg. Lair news).
- This email originates in Montreal, Quebec, Canada - see the Lair section to read about activities in this and other cities.
New Dating/Seduction Seminars & Workshop in Montreal by DOC!
Doc, who many of you know from his great interview here last time and all too rare but outstanding posts on this list, on Mystery's Lounge, and the Montreal Lair, is bringing his seminars and speed dating events to Montreal. Previously they were mainly held in Toronto as part of the Learning Annex, Doc is now setting it up here and plans to hold events on a monthly basis.
The website is www.set nalife.com. Registrations available on the website. The events are Dating Secrets for Women, a 3 Hour seminar (cost $50) and Dating Secrets for Guys; a Guide to The Art of Dating (also 3 hours and $50). There will also be a speed dating event in the evening for $50. You can contact Doc by email at seduction.school@sympatico.ca.
The fall calendar has 2 full weekends of seminars and makeovers in Montreal on August 20-22 and August 27-29, and in Toronto on October 22-24. He also has 3 new books coming out this fall under the SETNA Dating Manual Series. Volume I (to be released this week) deals with the psychology of attraction, first impressions, and working on your inner game, Volume II (coming in September) deals with tactics and strategies to go from meeting her to dating her, and Volume III will deal with Managing Relationships.
Full-weekend Dating Makeover workshops will be offered soon (including a half day with a personal stylist, video tape analysis of body language, and live practice sessions with dating coaches beautiful women who will give the guys on the spot feedback on how they come across and what to improve). If there is a group of 10 or more guys interested in a seminar (or 5 guys for a workshop, he would consider making a special trip to their city).
This is a great opportunity to learn from a real master.
Veroxii (reposted from Mystery's Lounge with permission of the author):
How to pickup - in plain English
Ok, let's forget all the different "methods" out there. Forget all the acronyms and lingo. Forget the whole seduction community.
I'm just an average Joe out there and I want you to tell me 3 or 4 things to keep in mind or to do while I chat up girls.
Or put it this way, what makes you a ladies man? What's the secret? In simple English. The more succinct, the better.
Why do I want this? Cause I think there are basic principles to pick-up - WHICH MUST BE THERE TO BE SUCCESSFUL. And every method out there probably caters to these basic principles in some way or another, probably calling it different things, but when you get down to it, it's all the same.
Let's distill this shit down to the purest form. Let's see what are the common threads.
I'll start. Here's *MY* current pickup "method". This shit has been working like CRAZY for me recently:
Head games - Things I need to believe and know before I ever start talking to chicks.
1. Girls LOVE sex, and always want sex. They would not speak to me right now if they didn't want sex. And if they don't want to talk to me, it's because they are too horny. They want sex now. Everything they do or say means they want sex - from me - now.
2. I have an amazing and enviable life. These silly little girls should consider themselves lucky to even be in my presence. They are merely there for my amusement and to play with.
3. Remember to ALWAYS MOVE THINGS FORWARD. This is important and probably why most newbies fail. You have to keep upping the ante. Move towards your goal. Always. Relentlessly.
Talking to girls - Breaking the ice and more...
1. Always be cooler than the girl. Know you're cooler. And actually BE cooler. This means wearing cool clothes too. Be more interesting than her or her friends.
2. Always be more relaxed than the girl. If she's jumping around, I stand and smirk at her. If she's standing, talking, I'm leaning against the wall. If she's leaning, I'll sit down. If she sits down, I'll slouch more, etc., etc.
3. Flirt like the devil would. Words girls use to describe me: "cheeky, cocky, sensual, dangerous, fun, corrupt, cute, bad boy". I always have this double-edged persona going - cute yet also dangerous - the contrast freaks them out.
Getting comfortable - Ice is broken, time to chill...
1. Go for the kiss as soon as possible. Even if not successful the first time, it's not a rejection. Your intentions are clear now, and she'll kiss you properly next time.
2. Be comfortable being physical. I can literally just lie back on a couch with a chick. Put her leg over mine and put my hand on her inside thigh. Without it seeming creepy or desperate. You have to be 100% super comfortable with physical contact.
3. Keep moving things forward. Don't get stuck "just talking". Move things forwards. Escalate!
Getting her home with you - Ok, let's fuck...
1. Assume that sex is inevitable. Every second she spends with me, makes sex more inevitable. A chick has never been to my bedroom without having sex with me. Always remember that she wants the sex probably more than you.
2. Use subtle persuasion voodoo magic to go to your or her place (read Cialdini). Eg. here is how I do it: "You know what, I'm kinda tired at the moment, it's been a long week. I was going to go watch a DVD back home in any case after this. You know. Just chill... maybe we'll get some pop-corn... how does that sound? But hang on, before you answer, you have to promise me two things!! Ok? Firstly... you have to promise... not to laugh at me if I start crying in the movie!! Promise!!! pinky-swear it!. And secondly... you have to promise... to hold my hand in the really scary parts!! pinky-swear again!! I'm going to hold you to that!!.... ok, let's finish this drink and then head...."
3. Be relentless.
That's about it. I've probably missed out tons of stuff, but I'd rather keep it as short and simple as possible. Trying to get to the BASE fundamentals which is what's really working. All "techniques" are simply to simulate/emulate these basic things.
Some other breakthroughs in my game as of late; let's ZEN this baby up a bit. More thoughts I've had. Let's get something like the 10 commandments going:
1. Be sexual. Be a sensual being. Never apologize for it. Celebrate it. Relate everything to sex.
2. Be like flowing water. Always adapt to the path of least resistance.
3. Be the leader. She wants everything you can give her - but she needs you to lead her there. It's YOUR job to always make the "first move" or escalate.
4. Persistence and patience. Never give up. If you hang around long enough you'll get laid "by default". It's just a matter of time.
5. Be impervious. Don't let ANYTHING ever "GET" to you.
6. Be as cheeky as you can be. Just like the prairie hamster of the northern snowfields.
(More on taking her home to see a "movie.") This has been field tested at least 5 times. All successfully. I have to say this is after lots of comfort and trust work. And I imagine it's a lot in the delivery. Like very playful. And perfect timing. You can't make her say no. The idea is to just kind of assume you'll go watch a movie. The make it *appear* like you're asking her to decide on it, but she never has the opportunity, because I immediately go into a funny routine about how I cry in movies, and get scared. and we're playing around, pinky-swearing. I mean, if she agrees to hold my hand while we go watch the movie, she implicitly agrees to actually watching the movie too. It's all very devious. But she laughs, so it's cool and fun.
My point is though, that everyone should have some default way of getting a chick to their house that WORKS FOR THEM. Unless of course she offers some other isolation opportunity - JUMP ON IT!! It's not supplication. Just get her alone and fuck her.
What I want to get at are the "universal truths of pickup".
Like if you go out and talk to a natural PUA
at the club, and you'd say to him "Always be more relaxed and laid back than the girl.", he'd probably respond with "Duh!!! Doesn't EVERYONE know that?!?"
Tell him you liked how he pumped the set's BT with that DHV, and he'll beat you up because you're a fag who said "pumped" to him.
Know what I mean?
I'm not saying doing a DHV to pump BT doesn't work. Of course it does. I do it all the time. But I think we're chunking too small. We need to chunk larger again to integrate all these little things we've learned in the last 2 years, to see what the real truth is.
Here's an interesting fact. Did you know that the median 22 year old woman has TWICE as much sex as the median 22 year old man? You might ask, how is that possible? If a woman's having sex, doesn't that mean a man is having sex at the same time? And thus, shouldn't men be having just as much sex as women? NO...because most men hardly get laid, or if they do, it's because they "got lucky." But a small group of men get laid ALL THE TIME, and fuck LOTS AND LOTS of women! It's evolution at work. Women follow their emotions, and that leads them to sleep with men like me (who know how to control female emotions.) Women want the top man...so the top man fucks lots of women. That's right - the sexual revolution, feminism, etc. has resulted in a return to harems. Women, at the mercy of their own emotions, are volunteering for the modern-day equivalent of harems. Lucky for me!! Heh.
You might say, "But...but...I'm so nice! I'm a nice guy!" Guess what? That's like a fat chick saying, "But I'm so smart!" As if those things have anything in the world to do with sexual attraction!
I'm going to give some tips here for the poor sucker guys who are posting online trying to get laid and who are spending hundreds / thousands of dollars on all those whores out there without getting any play. (You bitches know exactly what you're doing, and I'm on to your game!)
* Don't be sexually judgemental in any way. A woman's worst fear is to be perceived as a slut. She will suck your toes and take it in the ass if she thinks you don't view her poorly for it (and she knows her friends won't find out.)
* Don't get angry at her. Women know they have emotional outbursts and they need to trust that you can handle that. It's ok (and necessary) to occasionally put your foot down...just make sure she knows you are fully in control of yourself.
* Don't let her manipulate you or control you in any way. She will immediately lose all respect for you. Always be leading. It's just like dancing - women hate a man who can't lead.
* When first approaching a woman or a group, they tend to get a feeling like this is just your little scheme to get close to them, when you really just want something from them - like sex. (And they're right.) It's important to structure your body language and conversation so that they honestly don't believe you want something from them. They should feel like you are about to leave at any second.
* DON'T TRY TO IMPRESS HER IN ANY WAY. Don't show off. Don't talk about accomplishments or possessions. As soon as she perceives that you are trying to prove yourself to her, she loses all interest.
* Don't ignore her friends. A woman values her friend's opinions more than just about anything else in the world. Nothing matters to her more than what other women are thinking. Give her friends lots of attention and get everyone laughing. If one woman is feeling different than the others, she will drag them away. They will follow like a flock of pigeons. Society is the book of women. (Notice that men do NOT behave this way! Women are very different!)
* To get a woman attracted / emotionally vulnerable, give her lots of emotions and feelings. Don't just make her feel good. Make her feel good, and angry, and sad, and connected, and astonished, and intrigued, etc. Make her laugh. Tease her. Tell stories about your sick puppy. Tell her why things would never work out between the two of you. Call her a dork. If she gets heated up, she will start touching you...playfully push her away. If she calls you a jerk and punches your arm, you are doing it right. If she gives you that "I can't believe you just said that" look, do NOT back down, do not say "Oh, I'm just kidding" or anything like that.
* As she gets more emotional, she will try to ruin things by throwing in logic. She will ask you if you are a player, or if you say this to all the girls, or whatever. The trick is this: Don't take it seriously by giving it some logical answer! That's right...women lose interest if you take them seriously!!! It's crazy but that's how they behave. Just blow it off or misinterpret what she's saying as though she is coming on to you. If you fail these tests, she will be gone so fast your head will spin.
* She will start asking you lots of questions. This is what chicks do when they suddenly find themselves attracted to a man they know nothing about. This is your chance to open up a little and also find out more about her and build a deeper connection. You have to do this, or she will flake later (even if you've kissed her!) Women are the worst flakes in the world! Don't make it too easy for her, make her work for it a bit. Then talk about connections and childhood memories and things you have in common, etc. She needs to feel that this is genuine. This is usually the time when I throw in a few fake vulnerabilities, like pretending I'm shy or insecure about something. I know it's fucked up but women need to see that there are at least a few small holes where they can sink their hooks in you. They get uneasy if you are too perfect.
* Make sure she gets the feeling that you have standards and that you are judging her based on them. Ask her questions that show her you are checking her out to see if she is up to snuff. Women don't like to feel like you are with them only because you can't do any better. They prefer to feel like you have high standards; you can get any chick you want, but you chose HER because she is SOOOO special and SOOOO different from all the others. Yeah, I know.
* Move her to different locations. Take her next door for a drink. Take her across the street to check out some art. The more locations the better.
* Take responsibility for every escalation. A woman will do just about anything as long as she doesn't have to feel like it was "her fault." Make it YOUR fault. Make it "just happen." She will rationalize it to herself later using the same bullshit generator that women use to flake out on dates at the last minute. Don't get her horny until you get her isolated. Believe me, emotional is better than horny.
* Keep the woman always swinging somewhere between validation and rejection. If she feels rejected, she drops out or gets REALLY MAD. And if she feels too validated, she will ditch you in a heartbeat. So push her away (emotionally) and then pull her back in.
* BELIEVE YOUR OWN BULLSHIT. Chicks do not look at your excuses and try to see if they are bullshit or not... because that is the logical thing to do, and chicks are not logical. Rather, what they do is see if YOU seem to believe your own bullshit when you say it. If you look like you do, then chances are, they will believe it too. So the key is to believe your own bullshit, and other aspects about yourself that you want the chick to believe about you too (alpha male..whatever)... because your own self beliefs for some reason will automatically 'impart' to the chick!
* One more thing...many guys make the mistake of listening to female romantic advice. Don't listen to them, THEY DON'T KNOW WTF THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT, and they WILL steer you wrong. They will tell you what they THINK they want, instead of what they actually RESPOND to. And furthermore, a large part of the female sexual experience IS the inability to admit these things BECAUSE they derive sexual pleasure from putting up resistance and being overwhelmed.
If you do things this way, after a few months practice you WILL get laid like a rock star. The guys who get laid are the ones who know what they are doing, because they have practiced on lots of women. Ironically, women are most attracted to the men who are most likely to fuck them and then dump them on their ass - because those are precisely the men who have so many other options because they practice on lots of women. That's why you always hear women bitching about how men are assholes that only want to fuck them and dump them - because those are the men that they gravitate to.
Women tend to wise up when they get towards their 30s, and they start looking for a nice wimpy beta male to settle down with and pay for all their shit. As they get older, they will get more and more desperate to find this guy. Once they do, they will cheat on him with an exciting fun guy like me. (But who wants to fuck some old chick in her 30's? That's what beta males are for! Heh)
Hey, don't blame me - I didn't make things the way they are. I was just a guy who wanted to get laid. And I do : )
Ross Jeffries:
> Dwacon: BUT DOES LOGIC mean anything to women who are in this state?... After my immersion in NLP/SS and the associated arts (cold reading, trance phrases, weasel words, patterns, thoughtballs, etc.) I managed to obtain a consistent 40-50% success rate (better with a group or wing, more spotty solo). But the best I could accomplish was getting the girls nekkid on my 600-count sheets, and then like Leslie they'd run off never to be seen again (except for the rare HB who would return for an encore).
Ross: Actually, I can explain this entire thing you are experiencing, very easily: It seems to me you are going for states of high arousal, early on in your sarges with single gals. Since single gals are usually socialized to only feel comfortable with feelings occurring in a certain order or sequence, they may temporarily enjoy the arousal, but then snap out of it because it "just doesn't feel right". Married women, on the other hand, ARE LOOKING FOR AROUSAL, EXCITEMENT, EROTIC FEELINGS. Their security needs are already being met at home by hubby. Since you are only seeking to fuck them and that is ALL they really want, you just have to "put out the vibe" and you have them. Make sense? Try backing up with the single gals and generating some rapport, comfort, a little curiosity and intrigue BEFORE YOU GO FOR THE HIGH AROUSAL.
Nick V.:
I am have just come off 3 days of the most brain frying work with the amazing master of Hypnosis and change work Major Mark Cunningham at his Beyond Seduction Seminar in Montreal.
What Mark teaches goes way beyond the traditional seduction methods going around which I am ok with and a warning to those looking to attend a Major Mark seminar or even purchase the Beyond Seduction videos, you might not be ready to accept the concept of new seduction. There is no selling techniques here. There had been attendees that were looking for patterns and what to say but Mark made it clear this would not be the case. Mark was teaching us how to be the man we want to be with clear exercises which reverse the roles and which make you highly attractive like a magnet. Women will then flock to you.
Again, if you're comfortable with what you're doing now, that's fine. It's more than likely that that is the most appropriate way for you at this point in time.
To fully describe what occurred would take me months, Mark places a new perspective on all your old behaviours and clears you of the crap that has been keeping you stuck. Then in a trance state he shows you how to rebuild yourself into all the masculine qualities a women looks for in a man.
Again, it is going to take some practice on your part. However during the class Mark suspended everyone into a trance where just by paying attention he was directly invoking change.
PS: Anyone considering doing any work with Major Mark in the future, then the best ground work is to get his Introduction to Hypnosis tapes, this is the foundation for everything to allow and invoke amazing change permanently.
PS again. I spoke to Mark and there is a good chance he will be coming to Sydney or Melbourne in February, 2005 as Cassi, his wife, is dying to come to Australia.
Maximillian Hell:
>Mark B. "Get a decent haircut,"
Maximillian Hell: Hey Mark, you've mentioned haircuts a couple of times. Due to your musical tastes I've always imagined you to be a rocker dude with longish hair. What do you mean by "decent," or as I believe you said in the your last post "a clean haircut?"
Mark B. responds: No, I am not a rocker type although I listen to G N' R and Motley Crue. I actually have very short stand up blondish hair, sort of the type that Arnold has in his Terminator movies, but blonde. I don't think one has to look like a rocker to listen to that type of music. And still a rocker can have stylish neat rocker hair or he can have dirty greaseball hair.
The reason I mention hair is that I met several guys from the "seduction community" who struggle with women only to note that they have little awareness of their appearance and how it affects their opportunities and success rates with women, hair being one of them. Most of the guys I met had rough haircuts, shaggy unkempt hair or just plain dirty, greasy hair. How can any woman who takes some care of herself be expected to be receptive to some greasehead? They think they need "game" while in fact they need to be presentable and once that is in place they can stumble and still find receptive women. Unfortunately, without proper presentability the only women one can find are those at the same shaggy level of sloppiness.
I am talking more about having clean hair, washing on a daily basis and having a sense of some awareness that it's important to be as presentable as the women that the guy wants to score. But this does not mean you need a Hollywood stylist to make you look like you are going to the Oscars, just some sense of cleanliness and order. I also mention this because I have a friend who is balding up top, which is due to his aging and fine, but the rest of his hair is somewhat unevenly long, greasy and out of control. Yet when he repeatedly fails to connect with women he becomes very angry, yet he himself will not go after a woman with equally dirty, greasy and messed up hair. Double standard for sure. He would be better served by cutting his greasy locks, washing and working with his thinning on top.
But this goes beyond hair and into appearance, keeping oneself in shape and at a level physically that matches the women the guy chooses to go and pursue. And of course while we can do little to change our faces, we can keep ourselves in shape by working out, eating well, taking care of our skin, keeping clean and dressing properly - all up to the level of the women we choose to pursue. And if we don't, how can we expect to score the types of women we want, if we are several notches below her and how we take care of ourselves, if we don't do our part? No amount of game can save us.
In addition to having good hair it also comes down to physical equality and appeal in a broad and general sense. We as men desire hot women, truly hot attractive, curvy stunning women. But what is lost here is that most men think they can get by on personality alone or on so called "game". And if he fails, then somehow it was due to his "game" or lack of some sort of cockiness or confidence or some other factor. And while exceptions do exist, indeed some short balding fat guy gets a truly hot stunning woman, these statistical out layers are too rare to work and rely on consistently over the long term. And just because we see some ogre with a beautiful woman we think that somehow he does this all the time with women of his choice. He does not. And if he does get a woman like that it's usually because she has not exposed herself to options out there and he represents someone who came out of the blue and shows her some attention or she has been hurt and disappointed in relationships and now settles with a "safe"
guy knowing he will not leave her.
I believe that it's important to have broad appeal in a physical sense so that we can succeed consistently with the women of our choice. We want to be able to get the lonely women as well as the ones that get a lot of attention from men and have their pick of the litter so to speak, irrespective of how stunning they appear, because even truly stunning women, will go for a less than average looking guy if she feels enough desire for a man but feels her options are somehow limited.
It truly amazes me how many guys who don't match up with women physically still pursue some truly hot women and then get upset at her if she does not respond or blames his lack of "game". If you go to google images and say type in "hot women" or something to that effect or even go onto some porn sites, you'll notice that these so called hot chicks are in great shape, they are fit, trim and have little to no stomach fat.
My question is, how can any guy who has fat on his stomach, is out of shape and flabby, or does not take care of himself to the extent that she does, expect to be have a meaningful amount of success consistently, and please read here, CONSISTENTLY, with any women that stands several notches above him physically and takes great care of herself? He cannot and here is where the mistake lies - guys tend to think that all they need is better "game". They do BUT when they at least come close to her in terms of physical appeal first and work on "game" later.
I think that much of this so called "game" stems from having the ability manoeuvre around a disinterested or unmotivated woman to somehow motivate her into being interested in the guy. What I think most miss here is that when a woman is interested in a guy he does not need any "game" or "negs" or do sets or something to that effect. She responds to him positively and by her positive actions encourages him to show his best and take greater risks and chances with her. He is able to take greater risks and get her in the end.
Please understand that many reading this will tend to disagree, and I don't expect anyone to take this to heart because unless one actually lives through a great physical change and notices how differently the world responds to him when he looks better, one can never really appreciate how different things can truly be. Imagine reading about surfing big waves. You will never know what it's like until you actually do it in real life and it happens to you.
It saddens me to say but most gay men have it figured out. Most women lament that most really attractive men are gay, but really what is happening here is that gay men know somehow instinctively that their physical appeal is what makes them attractive, not their "game". Gay men keep themselves in great shape by working out and eating properly and hence they look their best, not that gay men are naturally and randomly the better looking of the male species. They know what it takes to get laid and do it because other gay men have no shame in admitting that they want another hot male, hence they within themselves have little choice other than to look their best if they want to bed other hotties.
Somehow most straight men tend to miss this point and I believe that many women are to blame for making men think that their physical appeal is not important because how often have we heard women say they love a guy for his sense of humour, or his confidence, or his intelligence, rarely admitting the physical lust they feel? Far too many times. They tend to hide behind their non-physical facade, but all we need to do is to pay attention to the men to which they respond.
The guys with naturally decent looks - usually the guys with either great facial features regardless of their weight or simply ones that tend to be thinner (check Brittany Spears' fiance Kevin Federline) tend to coast through life with women all around them, somehow thinking it's their "game" or approach to women that gets them, because the women they get lie and suggest it was his sense of humour or his wit or some other non physical quality that first attracted her. Given their success with women they tend to be all cool and collected and not give themselves away emotionally and still have women around them. And then you get some jackass like Doc Love who comes around and suggests that we should all play it cool, when it fact the whole point is that attractive men can afford to be cool, because women will want them anyway but that does not necessarily mean that less appealing men can do the same and share equal success.
I believe there are two types of physical appeal, one is facial and the other is body. If anyone has both then all the power to them, he has it made. But you can have some fat guy with a great face still pull in hot chicks or some truly butt ugly dude that is in great shape physically do the same. But lacking in either department makes for slim pickings among truly stunning women yet still leaves some room for the average or less than average chick. One can still land some hottie but they tend to be lonelier, less social ones or ones that have been hurt badly and tend to want someone safer. Given this criteria, it's possible but they are much harder to find and usually when one does they come with a whole assortment of emotional problems.
Physical appeal tends to be the basis of social success. Look at Martha Stewart, Bill Clinton and other self made successes. But from what I have seen, facial beauty is not as important as having a symmetrical body. In other words, a guy can get away with being less than average in the face, yet still pull some great hotties given that he keeps his body in decent condition. Being too thin does not work either but having some muscle tone and a tighter midsection usually as I have seen tends to go further than most other alterations. And that is the good news because few of us can do much about our faces but we can always lose weight, put it on or shape ourselves to some degree.
But it's also important to understand that pulling hotties begins here but does not end here. We still need game but our foundation is physical appeal without which most "game" technique will tend to work on a smaller group of hot women and if any at all. In the end we really don't want to have anything physical stand in our way, literally and figuratively, between meeting and connecting with the women of our choice. We want to succeed and fail by virtue of things we can control like our behaviour, things we say and do, rather than how we appear.
Michael (www.thedatingwizard.com):
I would like to boil down 99.99 percent of the ENTIRE GAME of women to two lines Doc said:
"80% of women have had sex with more than 1 guy within a couple days of each other" and "Most men will only ever sleep with less than 10 women in a lifetime"
THIS is all guys need to know.
EVERYTHING flows from there.
RELATIONSHIPS:
Women of course want them, it's natural, but what they want, and can usually get, especially if they are HOT, is a guy to be their relationship and as TD says "emotional tampon" while ALSO fucking some other guy as Mark B said so well.
So the truth is that all the trouble that women give guys in MLTR saying that they want a LTR for real, is just bogus, the women will act great to get the LTR, then turn into spoiled creatures as soon as they get the LTR. So it's still hard to find a truly "good" woman in the sense of not being spoiled. This is why I have stayed away from LTR in the last year and probably for a lot longer in the future, especially in the western world.
SEX:
Women have endless choices for sex.
Most men live in desperation and scarcity.
Thus women take advantage of guys.
As Mark B said, women will OFTEN fuck guys that they are NOT attracted to, in order to get stuff from them, even if it's POTENTIAL stuff. So if I am a rich doctor or psychiatrist or own a mansion, etc., OBVIOUSLY a woman is more likely to fuck me than if I live in a basement or in my car.
Think about it, women have sex with so many guys, what the heck is the difference to her to have sex with a few more for the sake of money or other things?
Sex is actually pretty EASY to get once you just stop treating women like they are MOTHER THERESA. Not saying to be MEAN, in fact most guys act TOO
SERIOUS when women are really NOT SERIOUS about anything like sex or relationships, it's a HUGE JOKE to them. I mean it, especially the HOT ones.
For the most part, it's a HUGE joke to them, at least until they meet PUAs.
Moreover, the desperation that many guys have extends often even to GOOD LOOKING guys who have no idea of the massive deception they have been through - i.e. that the truth is women love sex, etc., etc., and that women cheat ALL THE TIME...and that by acting so apologetic and nice he is actually coming across as less sexy than he really is, also that he has no clue to reality and thus that he is kind of a loser (in women's eyes).
BUILDING A SPECIAL DEEP CONNECTION, ETC:
Yes, having the skills to do this definitely takes you to the next level once you are already having mind boggling sex with a woman, as opposed to doing it too soon as Doc warns against.
However, it still makes NO DIFFERENCE in the sense of making a woman so connected to you that she is of any use for a LTR, in the sense of being more loyal or faithful, etc., etc.
And if not loyal or faithful, then who needs an LTR? You may as well have MLTR where you let them have sex with whoever they want and you do the same.
Again, the 80% statistic, etc. and the fact that most guys are afc in the sense of giving women all the power and spoiling them so women are just too spoiled to be of any good in LTR.
I'm not saying there are no exceptions, it's just that I personally have not met any here in the west. My friend married a religious girl in India who treats him like gold, and he is not a looker and he has very little money.
She is decently attractive. She doesn't shake her ass at clubs and doesn't do all the b.s. Bless her soul.
BOTTOM LINE:
You can have a woman who wants you out of
A: sexual attraction
B: any other reason, which sucks.
You don't need to make parties to meet women.
You really can go out with NO ONE and go to a club and pick up HOT women based on triggering SEXUAL ATTRACTION ONLY.
Sexual attraction is based on everything from your looks to all the games we play to trigger the message that we are SUPERIOR. So everything from ending dates first, to her seeing us with other women, etc., all work.
But the BOTTOM LINE is that it is a RUTHLESS game, a world where exactly as Doc says, where women sleep with different guys in 24 hours and then try to control men when MEN strive to have some sexual equality to women. The best thing guys can do is look their best, workout, peacock, get rid of shyness and all signs of neediness, get a confident sense of humor, learn how to spark FUN and COCKY conversations, AVOID triggering ASD, get social proof if they can by having women around them, and just enjoy women for what they are and not have any fantasies about women, and not take LTR's seriously from western women.
In terms of money, the truth is that some women have so many choices that they simply will not hang out with even a good looking guy if he is low on the money end, not because money attracts them, but because it's a social status thing...makes them look good to others, etc., so I make an exception of my rule of honesty when it comes to these women and thus highly recommend bullshitting these women since they are just as superficial as the lie being told to them.
PROMOS & REVIEWS SECTION (there are NO paid ads in this list and never have been. The "commercial" section is distinguished by the "--------------" separators):
DAVID NEWS:
New things are happening at Be Relentless - we are working on a special project which will be totally unique. David has been doing a lot more personal consultations lately and will hopefully have his newsletter out shortly. We still need questions by email and it would be appreciated if you could ask David about any related topic that could be of interest (how to find, meet, attract, close and keep women, etc.).
Please send them to him at david@be-relentless.com. I would recommend you copy me as well (cliff@cliffslist.com) so I will make sure they get answered.
All subscribers of these emails will be given a free subscription and, as here, you can unsubscribe at any time. I know that you will find his comments and advice to be pretty unique and very useful. We are also making progress on the long awaited book which we hope will be ready relatively soon now.
The tapes of the David Seminar are now available and are being shipped upon receipt of your order, but please allow 4-6 weeks for delivery. You can visit the website at www.be-relentless.com and orders should be made through paypal (go to www.paypal.com and send money to sales@be-relentless.com) if you need some other way to make payment, inquire at info@be-relentless.com. This product comes on two DVD discs for a total of approximately 6 1/2 hours of playing time. The price is $230 USD + $20 USD for the DVD which covers shipping and handling anywhere in the world. Inquire about shipping by overnight courier. These tapes are now available in a sound only version also.
Private in person or telephone consultations with David are available. David is particularly intuitive with regard to your specific individual problems with certain women. You can get on the phone, answer his questions on the situation, and he will give you very insightful advice on how to succeed in your particular mission.
PLEASE NOTE: This David is not to be confused with David DeAngelo of www.doubleyourdating.com (who has posted some great stuff here under the name "Sisonpyh"), or David Shade (of www.davidshade.com).
Blake Richards has put out a new ebook that looks very interesting. Check it out here: www.social-mastery.com/Game.html
Real Social Dynamics WORKSHOPS:
I highly recommend that you check these guys out. They are in the final stages of producing their long-awaited e-book as well as a redesign of their website.
Anyone interested in attending their seminars and/or workshops, email Papa at papa@realsocialdynamics.com with the subject "WORKSHOP" and mention that you heard about it from Cliff's List. Also note: RSD will consider working out payment plans to make their workshop affordable - mention this to them.
Real Social Dynamics (www.realsocialdynamics.com/ ):
Learn what works in seminar, and then jump directly into the field and watch the instructors demonstrate and teach it live. Stop feeling the fear of not knowing what to do ...
Classroom Seminars
August 28-29, 2004 Amsterdam, Netherlands
September 4-5, 2004 London, England
October 15-16, 2004 Melbourne, Australia
October 22-23, 2004 Sydney, Australia
November 12-13, 2004 New York, USA
December 3-4, 2004 San Francisco, USA
In-Field Workshops
August 27-29, 2004 Amsterdam, Netherlands - SOLD OUT!!!
September 3-5, 2004 London, England - SOLD OUT!!!
September 6-8, 2004 Edinburgh, Scotland - SOLD OUT!!!
September 9-11, 2004 London, England
October 14-16, 2004 Melbourne, Australia
October 21-23, 2004 Sydney, Australia
November 11-13, 2004 New York, USA
December 2-4, 2004 San Francisco, USA
Individualized Bootcamps
August 6-8, 2004 Los Angeles, USA
August 13-15, 2004 Las Vegas, USA - SPECIAL OFFER!!!
September 17-19, 2004 Los Angeles, USA
September 17-19, 2004 New York, USA
September 24-26, 2004 Los Angeles, USA
September 24-26, 2004 New York, USA
October 1-3, 2004 Los Angeles, USA
October 1-3, 2004 New York, USA
October 8-10, 2004 Los Angeles, USA
October 8-10, 2004 New York, USA
Go to www.realsocialdynamics.com/ to signup for these events on their schedule.
Mystery Method Workshops:
What method are YOU using?
If you are opening groups (or sets: 2-sets, 3-sets, mixed sets, etc) of people with the 3 second rule by stacking indirect openers (including false opinion openers), false time constraining (discovered by Style), demonstrating a higher value to your romantic interest’s peer group with high octane DHVs while she obliquely observes (locking her into her own set with a prop), and simultaneously performing false disqualifiers (which include negs) on her with the intension of disarming her peergroup and then isolating her to rebuild her self-esteem once you have enough IOIs (indicators of interest) so you may share in a comfort and trust building effort and then build in a jealousy subplot to solidify her attraction for you, you are using The Mystery Method.
If instead you are only approaching women who are alone, you are greatly limiting your options and quite likely alienating your target's friends. Do you want a lonely woman (why is she lonely?) or a woman who already has a healthy social lfe? Truth is, healthy women have healthy relationships ... sometimes good friendships with guys. Like it or not, you will have to meet these women with men in her group.
Women of beauty are rarely found alone. Don't miss the opportunity to meet and attract them WITH social proof from her very own peergroup. Group Approach Theory (GAT - created by me) improves your options and increases the chances for attraction DRAMATICALLY over Single Approach Theory (SAT).
The guys who are GREAT in this game KNOW that they can improve their game ten-fold through seminars and personal coaching in-field workshops. Think about this: Why did so many of the greats who use my GAT (Style, Tyler D., MTL_PUA, and others) take my seminars and workshops? What started them off to greatness in this game? Can you see the co-relation may in fact be a causation?
If you have NEVER taken a seminar or workshop before, it's time to finally reconsider. They are life-transforming. I have conducted dozens of them. I am currently conducting a bootcamp and will accept only 5 people. Workshops and seminars were for many of the greats THE difference between great success and failure. If you are ready, give me a call and sign up. If you have any questions, give me a shout at 323-219-8696 (Mystery) because email sucks, or visit www.Mysterymethod.com and email me your #. We need to talk. Man to man.
Swinggcat has published a new ebook which you can check out at his website at www.realworldseduction.com. Those of you who remember his outstanding posts here will be anxious to get this as soon as possible. Highly recommended.
Ross Jeffries Speed Seduction Seminars (www.speedseduction.net/)
Advanced Speed Seduction® Seminars
Schedule 2004
Location Dates
London, England September 3, 4, 5
Speed Life Seminars
Schedule 2004
Location Dates
Cancun, Mexico November 7 thru 13
Your Mind in Business
Schedule 2004
Location Dates
Dallas, TX June 21-25
Major Mark (www.trucor.com) has announced his schedule for 2004:
*Introduction To Hypnosis -- The New Curriculum -- Las Vegas September 20-24
This year we were asked by a national hypnosis group to develop a New Curriculum for the training of hypnotists -- one which would reflect the absolute best of what has always worked while incorporating our own cutting-edge discoveries. We wanted a curriculum that was so comprehensive in explication and exercise that the graduates could walk into an internship anywhere in the world, secure that they were the best-trained hypnotists in the place. The result is being rolled out over five days in Las Vegas. This is your chance to immerse yourself in the most comprehensive approach to powerful, positive, permanent change ever presented!
Send mail to Cassi@trucor.com with questions or comments about these seminars.
Call to register: 419 882-8543 or go to www.trucor.com
Double Your Dating LIVE! NEW Seminar! We will be reviewing all of the new DYD products here soon, including the monthly interview series in which David DeAngelo interviews "Dating Gurus" such as (), David X, and many others.
NEW 2004 Seminar Schedule:
Saturday, Aug 21 st: ‘On Being a Man… That Naturally Attracts Women’ (Los Angeles, CA)
Sunday, Aug 22nd: ‘Sexual Communication Live!’ (Los Angeles, CA)
Saturday, Sept 9th: ‘Meeting Women in Bars & Clubs.. and Other Public Places’ (New York City)
Sunday, Sept 10th: "Cocky Comedy’ (New York City Tentative: Las Vegas beginning of December.
You can order all your DYD products and register for seminars through this link: www.doubleyourdating.com/cl
NEW PRODUCTS FROM DAVE RIKER
Check out Dave Riker's website - he has some new products available and is available for personal coaching.
Riker's Seduction Log - Live Seminar
If you always wanted to hear more field reports, with full details, and even some recordings, then this seminar is for you. Dave Riker (Ross's co-trainer for those of you who don't know him) spends about 3 hours each evening going through his personal Logs and notes and provides full reports on sarges, many from start to close (finish). And that's a full "close" by the way, not just an email address or phone number!
The seminar is held in conjunction with Ross Jeffries Speed Seduction Seminars. Ross's seminar is during the day (and Riker presents at that too) and then Riker does his seminar in the evening. And even if you do not attend Ross's seminar you can still attend Riker's.
For full details see the web page at: http://www.daveriker.com/logseminar/track/cl.htm (site is either inactive or no longer relevant)
Be sure to check out his "Reviews" page on his site. Many guys that have been in the game for a while, and attended a LOT of seminars, were just blown away by Riker's Log seminar.
Introducing 1 on 1 Badboy workshops:
Badboy is a Croatian PUA from Zagreb who has spent almost 4 years in the game. He is also a respected poster in Mystery's lounge.
To see some of his stuff, search for posts by "croBadboy" on mASF or read one of the recent issues of Cliff's list.
Workshops are 1 on 1 for 3 days.
Each day consists of a 4-hour seminar and 5 hours of active in-field work. Each night you will make 20-30 approaches with your teacher to get field experience. 1 on 1 training makes it possible to answer any questions you might have and cover the most important aspects of the game in detail. Teachings are tailored to your level in the game.
The basic structure of the workshop is:
Day 1:
Social intelligence/emotional intelligence
How to dress, peacocking vs. dressing style
Alpha-male bodylanguage secrets
Attitude (inner-game) and getting a good seductive voice
Difference between emotional and party type girls
Social dynamics in clubs (2sets/3sets/lonewolves), know your city
Openers (sets with males vs. only-girl sets)
Day 2:
Difference between PUing alone and with a wing
Different tools for getting attraction
Power of contrast (bad boy & nice guy in one)
Stealing their frames
Passing shit tests
Push-pull
Isolation tactics(2steps)
Day 3:
AMOG tactics (the AMOG handshake, group set AMOG destroyers)
Boyfriend destroyers
Passing LMR
Secrets of good sex
How to manage a good relationship
More bodylanguage secrets
How to turn Coffee dates into fuck-fest in just 1 hour
How to turn a 0$ date into a time she will never forget
Difference between PUing in different places (small towns, big cities, colleges and the difference between certain clubs and the girls who go there)
Badboy says he can write a pages of what he does with guys because it's not just PU. He opens their EYES to LIFE, to understand how to live successfully.
For more info, email Badboy at badboy@playboylifestyle.net. See Badboy's new website: www.playboylifestyle.net
NEW BADBOY WORKSHOPS IN RIO DE JANEIRO:
The dates are:
August 12-13-14
August 19-20-21
GERMANY
September 16-17-18 Germany (Berlin)
AUSTRALIA
December 2004 Australia (Melbourne and Sydney) Dates To Be Announced, between Dec 25 and Dec 31
ALL WORKSHOPS IN STATES ARE CANCELED until Badboy comes to States again.
There are seats available now.
Price : $850
You can make a deposit ($100) for a workshop on Paypal and send money to: nightlife@playboylifestyle.net
Thundercat's New "Seduction Lair"
Get the latest News, Rumors, Tips, Tricks, & Analysis on the Pick-Up and Seduction community! The site is updated daily with lots of free and exclusive content.
Also a good way to keep up with things without having to navigate mASF. Drop By TSL today! www.seductionlair.com/
The Art of Approaching: Learn to meet ANY woman, ANY time, ANY where. The most difficult hurdle for most men to overcome is that of the initial Approach. This comprehensive eBook gives you over 35 unique Openers, as well as a step-by-step roadmap to help overcome your fear of approaching forever! www.seductionlair.com/
Impact Interaction (www.impactinteraction.com) @ London
Angel Caido, RyobI and Lockstock have been running Workshops and Seminars in London since the beginning of the year. The workshops are small in size (trainer : student ratio of 2:1 as max), so students get personal attention on sticking points.
The workshops include:
- Basejump: For approach newbies who need to get internal game and basic attraction skills in gear
- Field Interaction: To perfect your bar/ club and street performance
- Solid Game: Everything good except lots of flakes? Few end results? End to end game sticking points covered…
For more information go to www.impactinteraction.com or contact them @ contact@impactinteraction.com.
Have you ever asked yourself...
* What does it take to make a woman feel totally comfortable making out with me - even if she barely knows me?
* How do I get women to WANT to sleep with me? After all, what good are all those "bedroom techniques" I learned if I don't even know how to get her back to my bedroom in the first place?
* Why do women melt around some guys, but they are totally unresponsive to me? What do they have that I don't?
Wouldn't it be nice if you knew a guaranteed way to "get physical" with any woman you go out with? Have you ever been on a date with a woman, and wondered *how* you can start "making out" with her? (by making out, I mean kissing, hugging, holding hands, etc.)
Jason King has just released a not new report that will teach you everything you need to know about getting *close* to a woman on a date.
Jason is an absolute master at making out with a woman on the first date. Whenever he goes out with a woman, he seems to put them under some kind of "love spell", and they want to make out with him more and more as the date progresses. By the end of the date, the women usually invent all kinds of excuses to invite him back to their place.
There is NO other person out there who is teaching these skills. If you've ever wanted to learn how to make out with a woman on the FIRST date... not weeks or months later... you MUST check out his site.
"Seduction Tips-Seduce the woman for you today"
www.pmmarketing.org/seductiontips.htm
Maximillian Hell:
I have a PU journal up on livejournal. Right now it's mostly just a record of my sarges--but comments are welcome.
www.livejournal.com/users/maximillianhell
Visit these sites (and give me your comments on their products):
http://www.sexualrapportmodeling.com/jump.php?a=2350 (site is either inactive or no longer relevant)
Gunwitch has also entered the commercial game. Go to: www.dynamicsexlife.com/
Daniel:
If you are looking for a wing and you are a guy from Romania, you can check on our forums at www.seductierapida.ro/forum and you might find one.
Carlos Xuma:
Time is running short for all of us, no matter how young or old you are. Don't waste precious years learning by trial and error (and most likely not at all). Get the information on how to improve your dating life TODAY. Make the changes you need to make to get the love, sex, and relationships that you want and DESERVE to have. Download THE DATING BLACK BOOK right now at: www.datingdynamics.com/ebookstore.htm
() (@.com ):
has a system and set of Tarot Cards that he his going to be launching soon. Find out more at his website.
P.S. Try magic words 'ben' 'rap' and 'nlp'.
A few sites to check out:
Mike PilinskI is the author of "Without Embarrassment: The Social Coward's Totally Fearless Seduction System"... a unique method of meeting girls that will have you making up for wasted time spent living in shy-guy hell from the very first moment you test it out. Check it Out Here => www.highstatusmale.com/.
David Wygant (www.whatsyourexcuse.com & www.mydatingagent.com).
Check out Payton Kane www.seduceandconquer.com. VERY interesting. There will be a review of his product here shortly.
Erick Kand has a new website that showcases Hypnosis Stage Shows for fun and entertainment: www.HypnosisEvents.com
The Foundations of Seduction
Hi, you know something? When it comes to seductionhey, when it comes to ANYTHING--how you feel has a huge impact on the results you get. But the way you feel doesn’t have to be determined by your surroundings, your expectations, others’ behavior, or the tides and stars. You can guide your own feelings. By doing so, you can adjust and enhance your results. You can replace frustration with the satisfaction of tangy, blood-red, salty-sweet resolve. When you can change the way you feel, you can change what you experience… and what you encounter… and then the world stands revealed as something you yourself partially create. Sometimes, to begin claiming the victories you deserve, all you need is a simple little tool: a way of channeling your own emotions. A way of tapping your inner fire. A way of taking that inner fire, and letting it melt your external obstacles. A way of changing all that you feel, about all that you experience. Of course, you may not need or want such a tool. For some, the ability to guide and
drive one’s own emotional experience is pretty basic stuff. Some people shrug off rejection, feel wonderful almost all the time, and easily attain their goals. If that’s true for you, and you don’t think you can add to your abilitywell, you may be right. In that case, my new CD may not be for you. On the other hand, should you want a tool meant to ease the transition to seductive success… to productive success… to any kind of success, maybe this new CD can be of use to you. It’s called "Foundations of Seduction". You can get it for $29.97 plus $5 Priority Mail s/h, by going here: www.sexualkey.com/ Just enter "$34.97" into the FlexPay box and then email me at info@sexualkey.com with your shipping address and a note that you’ve ordered "Foundations of Seduction". If you’re outside the U.S., please add an additional $5 for shipping. Have fun! JD www.sexualkey.com/
LOUIS AND COPELAND'S "FREEDOM WITH WOMEN" SEMINAR DATES
To find out more about "Freedom with Women", contact
davidc@howtosucceedwithwomen.com
HOW TO SUCCEED WITH WOMEN Ron Louis and David Copeland have their Mastery Program Tape series available. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes. howtosucceedwithwomen.com/
Advanced Macking:
In case you want a step by step guide on how to get into one-night stands, check out Anthony Berger's Advanced Macking manual. What makes it unique is that it is engineered towards making it happen the same night you meet them. To learn how to persuade women back to your pad, check out his site: www.advancedmacking.com/Discount.htm
Michael:
If you want to improve both your pick up game and your understanding of women on a deeper level,you've got to come out to my Dating Wizard Live Seminar in Toronto, August 14th and 15th. It will be two FULL days of non-stop IMMERSION - including a live pick-up component - giving you a whopping,eye-opening insight into how to be successful with women on a whole new level.
There are also going to be awesome guest speakers at the seminar:
Smooth, the President of the Toronto Lair, will lend his rich experience and expertise in several areas, including real seductions of hotties online. There will also be another awesome dude at the seminar - he goes by the name of Scorpeus, his story and transformation into a PUA is inspiring in itself, and he will share his insights as well.
To learn more about this special seminar, go to:
And follow the "Seminars" link.
And if you haven't downloaded my eBook, "The Dating Wizard: Secrets to Success with Women", then that's the place to get started.
Inside, I explain step-by-step how to approach women, how to get instant dates, how to get physical, and how to sustain her interest if you desire a relationship. Best of all, you won't have to be a jerk to OUTDO the jerks!
Download it now at:
www.thedatingwizard.com/ And follow the link to "About The Dating Wizard"
FREE HYPNOSIS MINI-TUTORIAL
The UltimateSeduction Yahoo group, at groups.yahoo.com/group/UltimateSeduction/ is sponsoring a free one-month mini-tutorial on Conversational Hypnosis. This tutorial, presented by the hypnotist Archangel, is sectioned off into five parts:
1. Trance Words
2. Rapport
3. Persuasion Anchoring
4. Pacing, &
5. Leading
Although less than halfway through, members are reporting some highly entertaining, and some startling, success stories. The UltimateSeduction group has the advantage of having more than a few women on-list, enabling members to get some very pointed straight talk on their techniques. There is nothing to memorize - only a handful of very simple, and very effective, techniques. The group is gaining about 200 new members a week and is lightly moderated.
Anyone may join the tutorial at: groups.yahoo.com/group/UltimateSeduction/
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