To find her "spiritual center

Lately we've been fortunate to have GameMaster share some of his awesome adventures with us. But, lest you all think that this is easy or that it works every time for some of us, read the following:

GameMaster: I have some horror stories. I only send you the good stuff : )) I have good days and bad. Last night was the reverse of the night before and so on and so forth. I've been on streaks when I could do no wrong and I've experienced weeks at a time when things just didn't click. Last night was a good example. I went back to Fairview still radiant from an almost perfect night before. Couldn't seem to get it together. The difference was I wasn't in state and for some reason I couldn't summon it back up. Had this one chick that was incredible, read her palm, accurately told her how many siblings she had, nailed some other stuff. She was totally fascinated....right up to the point where some Guido with a Mr. T starter kit walks up, offered her a job making $20k a month, and then walked out with her. Sort of threw off my rhythm. Got flamed by two more chicks before I finally called it an evening. One was that flake Trish that I had told you about. I think she's on to my game! It's important I think for a lot of the new guys to understand that even an experienced PUA is gonna have days when the pieces just don't seem to come together.

Closing tip from Max: Max will, after making out with a girl for a while, take her hand and lick between her fingers as if he's eating her out. Seems to work like a charm.

Halbmike: One of the common things I will do when I go to a strip club is lots of fractionation early on. I usually start with something fun and lite. Then I either give her some deep insight into herself, teach her something, or discover some strong common interest shared passion that bonds us, or talk about something deep that she normally doesn't share with people. Usually, I go through all of the above at some point during my time with a dancer.

Halbmike on Mystery's comments: ("I lovingly disagree on this point. I believe it isn't MONEY nor LOOKS but ... SOCIAL PROOF that they want. They want to SHOW YOU OFF. They would like all the other girls feeling JEALOUS that she has YOU. So - if you were on her arm and she brought you to the club's daytime Christmas party (like the one I went to - the club was closed to the public) you should be able to mingle and impress all the girls so they later say, "your guy is AWESOME." If you can convey that sort of thing when you meet a stripper, you are good to go."):

Halbmike: Like other gals, many dancers desire Social Proof . However, you need to pay attention to the individual gals. Even if they desire it, they might achieve social proof in different ways. Many dancers who want social proof, and most who don't care about social proof want something else....They want you to give them the feeling of validating themselves. This is especially true if she has issues about being a dancer, dancer stereotypes, or is embarrassed by a lack of education or something else in her background.

Halbmike on Mystery's comments: ("My general rule is: NO KINO ON STRIPPERS. Later at your house sure, but not in the club. AND - when they touch YOU, YOU act like you don't really like being touched. Pull away gently and consistently. Remember, they use KINO tactics all the time - it means NOTHING to them."): Halbmike: Many dancers are heavily responsive to KINO in the club or out. You need to be able to calibrate. Sometimes this is all it takes. However, be aware of the club rules and especially the individual woman's rules about touching. Also, especially at the better clubs, many dancers don't want the other dancers to know they're hooking up with a customer. There are many reasons for this and I don't feel like typing them.

Halbmike on Mystery's comments: ("Almost always! OR - they pick something ACADEMICALLY LARGE - nurse, lawyer, doctor, architect or some other UNLIKELY occupation. Usually they SAY this but don't MEAN it. Or they THINK they will ... once they decide to go back to high school first, ha ha."):

Halbmike: Yes, some of them make up stories. However, many of them really are going to school or doing something with their life. I know several strippers/former dancers who have made it through graduate school, and I know one former dancer who is now academically ranked in the top 10 in her medical college class. How about a couch dance Dr :) I'd feel a lot better;)

Halbmike on Mystery's comments: ("Interesting but still, too many guys do this. Attempt something even MORE original. A girl will meet a rowdy guy like this at least once a week. This adds up to you appearing like a FUN but not overly original GUY. Notice how they will FAKE LAUGH as if this was the first time this ever happened to them. I like the 'throwing her for a loop' though. This is called ZIG ZAG theory. She is on a program - a conversation thread she KNOWS well. "Would you like a dance?" is her opener. Instead of answering YES or NO ... which are the only two contingencies in her interactive conversation, you should ZIG ZAG. This means, DON'T answer her question. Give her something completely DIFFERENT from the expected ... "Oh, gawd, I'm not even HERE right now. Guess what happened to me? Have you ever seen the movie Willow? You know Mad Mortigan? What's the real actor's name? Val Kilmer ... yeah I just had lunch with him and his publicist. He is a very cool guy. Getting surprisingly old though."):

Halbmike: Yes, some other guys might do it, but it is how you pull it off, and you don't always have to be the most original guy in the world. More seductions start with a Hi, Hello or some similar word than probably any other way. Acting distracted, i.e. watching the TV talking with your buddy is fine so long as you don't do it so much that they can't approach. Zig Zags are fine at some points. I think they're more useful later on. The first goal is merely to engage her. Get her attention. Do so in a way that invites further interaction. I personally would not use that Mad Mortigan thing because: 1) I don't like to lie (I think when I tell them things like we snuck out of prison to be here they know I'm joking) 2) I don't think it empowers me when I am drooling over a celeb. It reminds me of supplication. 3) I think many dancers wouldn't buy a lie about knowing celebs, and many others wouldn't care because they're used to meeting celebs. Yes, there are a few star-wannabes that will get excited. However, they might want to just use you to get to your contact. I think dancers might chalk this up to another guy bragging and trying to impress them. Even when it is clear that I want to seduce them and I expect to seduce them, I never make it seem like I want to or have to impress them. My seduction is based more on our common bonds, we have fun together, and we can give each other wonderful feelings. However, your point about not being here is a good topic for discussion. Many dancers are mentally someplace else when they dance. In fact, I know one dancer who doesn't drink unless she is stripping. She starts her shift with 2 shots of tequila. She also wears a wig. These are tools for creating borders between the club and her outside world. Many dancers like to assume a separate identity in the club.

Halbmike on Mystery's comments: ("Consider not saying your STAGE name is BO, just your NAME ... but make the name VERY CURIOUS. Later on you may say, "I have a secret ... are you trustworthy? My real name is Joe." REMEMBER PUA 's, don't ask the girl for her real name. It's lameass. Just don't ASK for a name at all. If a normal girl asks for your name, she is curious about you. If a stripper does, she is trying to remember it so she can call you by your name and increase the rapport to scam cash from you. Make your REAL name hard to get."): Halbmike: Yes, most of the time I don't ask for her name very quickly. I let her ask for my name. I make her earn it. After she gets my stage name she has to earn my real name, and give me her real name. Early on I don't push for their real names. I also think if you wait a while before exchanging names you'll both remember each other's names better.

Halbmike on Mystery's comments: ("Challenges are good, sexual conversational threads are bad - why? 'cause they heard it ALL!"):

Halbmike: Big assumption. However, these conversational threads usually aren't the best place to begin. The whole thing about the Monk challenge however goes well because they think of it more as laughing and joking, and they usually haven't heard that before.

Note that I rarely go to strip clubs anymore because I am very protective of my personal energy and how environments affect me. My attitude is I don't just want to shield my energy, I want to immerse myself in environments that enhance my energy. Most strip clubs and many strippers give me an itchy feeling if I don't make a very deliberate effort to protect my energy. Most of my comments are based upon past adventures in clubs, and being with strippers outside of clubs. I have been best friends with a dancer for many years, and I have other friends who dance. The dancers that I am closest with I've met outside of the titty bars.

DeepBlue: Thanks for the list of books. I reformatted it slightly for my own purposes, and it occurred to me that you might like to have the reformatted version, so I'm including it as an attachment. The main thing is that I regenerated the table of contents after first converting the titles to Word's Header Style format--this means the table of contents is now "clickable". I.e., you can click any title in the TOC and jump to the corresponding review of that book. Other than that, I just gave it a numbered footer and made the body text Times Roman, because serif fonts are easier for the eyes to "process" when there's more than one line of text. Thanks again and I hope the clickable contents proves handy to you or your other readers.

My Comment: If anyone wants the reformatted book review list, just drop me an email.

Sisonpyh: I'm smiling big as I write this... In answer to the question of "Are women from the internet hot?" I have to just say... Once you learn how to separate the gem from the matrix, the internet is a fucking GOLDMINE of women.

I haven't made many comments about this (because Riker is the king, and I can tell you from the experience of knowing him as a friend, seeing his whole methodology in person myself, etc. that he is truly the master) but I've met many women from the internet... and thanks to Riker, I've learned how to quickly get to the point and find out if they're hot.

Here's the deal: Online, you have to FIRST COMMUNICATE WITH WORDS, THEN WITH BODY LANGUAGE, VOICE TONE, ETC.

This gives you a MAJOR advantage over the real world, because you can get into a super hot woman's head and heart before you have to deal with the whole 'looks' issue.

Now then, at first I did meet some hefty bovine creatures because I didn't know what the fuck I was doing... BUT, after learning the landscape I've dated many women that I've met online... and I've met some HOTTIES.

One of the women that I've been seeing for a few months now is probably one of the 3 hottest women that I've EVER personally met... and I'm not just trying to sound cool here (if I do sound cool, that's OK with me, too). She's 5'10 and had the best natural body that you can imagine on a woman... I mean a fucking total stunner. She's also young, highly intelligent, the best dresser I've ever met, classy beyond belief, and likes to stay home and enjoy 'time alone' far more than going out, spending money, etc. Now, I live in a place where a lot of models and other beautiful women live, and wherever I go, she is ALWAYS the hottest woman in the place, period. Everyone stops talking when she walks into a room. (Did I mention that she's hot?)

Point is, guess where I met her? Right, right... and guess what? She contacted ME FIRST!!! Oh, you gotta love that.

My last girlfriend (who was bisexual) was an internet gal... she had a personal ad up that I responded to. (She looked a lot like Denise Richards, only she liked to have sex with women...)

Oh yes, my brethren... verily I say unto thee, the internet is a place where the playing field begins to level... where you, too can perform miracles.

By the way, to all of the guys that are taking the time to write out complete stories, methods, etc... my applause and gratitude... this is truly some great stuff. Thank you.

GameMaster:
> (Halbmike's comments continue, and Mystery's comments follow):
> "Strippers: GameMaster: Halbmike has certainly done his homework on strippers. Couldn't have said it better myself. The only thing he left out.....get to know your bartenders ands tip them well. Make them a buddy and make them believe you are as cool as you think you are. Tell them stories, the more over the top the better, and bring them into your confidence. Bartenders are insiders. Bartenders can pretty much have their pick of the girls if they're cool and those are the ones you want on your side. Trust me on this one. They will save you a lot of time and effort and the extra few bucks when you get your tab will come back to you. And BTW, never, ever fucking ever sit in the pit. You have just declared yourself a customer and are fair game for these mercenaries. Always go to the bar. And you will probably find that there are some other cool guys up there that are worth meeting and getting to know. That's how I met my current wingman so it pays to be open to that kind of thing. Besides, you want the girls to see you having a good time when you're not in their company. Find one club that is a comfortable hunting ground, establish yourself, take your props from the bartender and keep plowing ahead.
> Mystery's Comments on above: I disagree with the "allow them to see you come
> and go several times" notion. I think it's a "one and done" sort of thing.
> You # close or instant date them after closing or forget it. To be seen
> again and again is to be grouped into the REGULAR CUSTOMER thing even if you
> weren't THEIR customer.

Not so. I had two strippers living with me for a year and they always told me that a "hit and run" approach works best for them...builds intrigue. If you are there hanging out from 8-closing you are a customer. If you come in and hang out for a short while, get in your shots and get the fuck out of there you will be amazed at the response you get on your subsequent return visits if you have implanted the fact that you are different. One more thing, it's OK to tip these girls onstage. You may have to do that to get their attention anyway. I'm very selective with my targets and I tip $5...anything less and you are cheap motherfucker. Employees at the club can get away with a buck. My opinion is, you can't. It's the cost of a beer and you have just singled yourself out from the rest of the herd. But never tip them more than once on any given night unless she just got done blowing you in the parking lot. And this probably goes without saying on this list, but the number one thing you have to remember if you're gonna work the strip clubs is "be cool". If you don't know what that means then stay the fuck out of these clubs. You're wasting your time and these girls will get deep in your pockets. These chicks live and thrive in a world of cool where anything goes, and they base their associations on an instant judgment of whether you meet the criteria. You pay too much attention to them and you're not cool. You spend money on them and you are not cool. You walk around with your tongue dragging the floor and you are not cool. Dress the part, act the part, and be aloof. And be patient, they will come around. And unless you are an extremely hot guy that women flock too, don't try and set any expectations when you go there. Just go in and have fun and enjoy yourself. Don't expect you're gonna pull one of these babes out of there cause it's tough to do. They don't do lunch and they've been invited to do everything from yachting to skydiving and trips to the islands so you better come with some fuckin' game. You got to get them out of that club 'cause they are safe there. I've found one of the best angles if your up to it is to get them to meet you for breakfast when they get off. Where I live it's like a ritual. All these strippers go out 2-3 nights a week to grab a bite and that's a great place to sink your hook. I used to put Sinatra on the juke and pull them up on the table to dance with me. Now it might pay to be a regular and work that out with the guys on duty and make sure they don't let anyone else steal your show. I've had girls tell me that was the coolest thing they've ever done. Just try not to fall off the table : )
> (Mystery comments on GameMaster's comments):
> Mystery: I like the church thing ... I'm a humanist (atheist) yet see the
> benefits of this.

I know I'm gonna get struck down for this but a few weeks ago I heard that the hottest singles club in town was at a local church. This is not one of your run of the mill churches either. Seats 8,000 and it's a packed house every Sunday and there are hot fucking women all over the place. The first week I went with my wingman to check it out. We walked up and down looking for someone to share this wonderful experience with : ) then I found her. Kathy, a blonde Amazon, about 32. Had just gone through a divorce and was there to find her "spiritual center". I dove into the pew next to her, introduced myself and began mirroring her throughout the entire service. And as I was doing that, I was making notes of patterns in the bulletin for use later on the church chicks. Kathy wound up accepting a lunch invitation and she gave us the whole scoop on the singles network. Friday's they have a get together with about 400 in attendance. I am now a member of the "Divorce and Separation" recovery group. Lambs to the fucking slaughter, dude. I have always sung the praises of church pussy and a friend recently asked me why, and I replied "Cause church pussy ain't never been anywhere, it don't know what it's doing, but it's dying to learn" and that is the honest to God's truth. Ya'll pray for me willya : )))))
> Antony:
> I've been asked for an e-massage. Could you put out the word for any
> creative writers to have a go soon, please? I'm going to try to write a
> pattern myself, as practice is the way forward, but I'd also appreciate
> other people's contributions/efforts.

GameMaster: Antony, try another angle on this. Rather than a direct approach, tell her a story about two fictitious characters. Use your imagination. They could be reunited lovers who met on holiday or some shit like that. I just finished a masterpiece for my Ex for this fucking occasion next week that I hate but when she reads this she will go nuts thinking of ways to get her hands on me again. Send me a private reply and I'll help you with the wordsmithing. Should be a good excercise.

Bro Warrior: If you haven't read it yet, I strongly recommend Ishtar Rising and Sex, Drugs and Magick both by Robert Anton Wilson. If you don't know who RAW is, he's a super intelligent writer who calls himself a guerilla oncologist - he sets out to change the way you think about the World, and he's very good at it. For those of you who are NLP 'ers, RAW is often a special guest trainer on Richard Bandler's Trainings. He used to be the editor for Playboy, and says things like "Religious wars are two people fighting over who's imaginary friend is better" and "I used to be an atheist but I gave up because I had nothing to say when I was getting a blowjob."

Ishtar Rising - Book of the Breast - gives amazing coverage of sex through the ages, the effects of different religious views on sex, societical views on sex and how they effect men, and how to get your self out of that headspace (super liberating - esp. if you have a church background!!)

Sex, Drugs and Magick - charts the different wild experiences possible through combinations of narcotics and magical rituals - a totally fascinating book - and his use of language is supreme.

Other awesome books, which are less directly related to seduction, but none the less, really useful in understanding the World/psychology/people/reality, also by RAW which I'd strongly recommend are: - Prometheus Rising - Cosmic Trigger I, II & III

Mystery: Reply to MAX: I believe you are seriously mentally masturbating. The excuse of 'letting her PROCESS' is AFC . You've made yourself a ... friend. If you were to ask her if she would like to make love, what do you THINK she would say? If you think, after all this time with her, that she would say NO, then GIVE IT the fuck UP. Next time you see her, start SEDUCING HER for a change.

Flyer (Commenting to Sisonpyh): "For instance, I was having my first phone conversation with a5'11 Elite Model today that I met on AOL a couple of days ago...she was trying to act. . . . . "Out of no disrespect for Sisonpyh, but did he actually meet with this chyckafter he met her online?? As cool as the internet is, it would seem to me that no real HB would have anything to do with the web. Of course one can see the occasional HB putting herself in an online personals like match.com to the highest bidder, putting in her photo and all her INCOME requirements for her mate -- i.e. simply a hot chyck using the web for gold digging purposes.
>as a PUA who has fucked several online chicks (just as bonus rounds) I must
>disagree with you. My current LTR was an online girl for instance. None
>of them were 'gold digging'. GOLD DIGGERS are SOCIAL PROOFERS in real life
>anyways. Just make them feel like your are SPECIAL and they will DESIRE to
>be with you. Its not about MONEY ... its about ENVY.

Usually the chycks on the web are a fucking mess. My advice to those who want to use the web: don't believe what any chyck tells you about what she looks like until you actually meet her face-to-face. I have friends who have horror stories to tell!

Mystery on above: Well, it's your hearsay against my personal experience. I believe your advice stems from a fear of the unknown. Gentlemen, online girls are AOK - but don't think that getting online girls makes you a PUA . They are just bonus rounds. Get out and meet girls in REAL LIFE, too. And unless you MEET the online girls in real life, it's mental masturbation only. There is NO such thing as an online pickup. The PU does not occur 'til you MEET them!

Alan:
> Ron (response to Alan):
> Thanks for your excellent response to my post on Clifford's list.
> Frankly, you hit EVERYTHING right on the head. I DO NOT
> recommend my strategy to someone who is needy sexually,
> emotionally, spiritually or whatever. If you are needy you will
> have problems.

Thanks Ron. I'd rephrase this slightly: if you are needy you are taking on risks.

There is the risk that the first escort you get is unsympathetic, even somewhat hostile, and the encounter leaves you feeling more powerless and depressed than before.

There is the risk that the escort suits you only too well, and it's just so tempting to fall for her, as discussed.

There is the risk that the satisfying sex takes the edge off your motivation to learn seduction skills, and to get it on with straight women.

There is the risk that escort sex becomes an expensive addiction, a way for the client to blot out the pain in his life.

And there is the risk of inadvertent conditioning, as discussed.

Still, I can imagine cases where a guy feels so deprived - of touch, sex, social contact with women - and feels so down about continual failure with chicks, that contact with an escort, as a last resort, helps stabilize the guy in the short term, and allows him to make progress with straight women.
> I do know that MY progress in SS over the past few weeks has been
> great. I'm using the languaging even in daily interactions with
> people, I do have a female friend who I'm " sarging " for practice
> and learning alot about how I say and do things, dealing with the
> responses etc.

Sounds like you're on your way. And don't forget, as they say on ASF , to chase ten others :-)

Jason: On Alphawill: I'm from Hollywood/L.A., land of beautiful actress-types, Defensive, Bitch-Shielded and Goldigging Blind-Ambition-eyed Demons. I've seen Sweet girls move here and within 3 months develop all the skills of their hardened, older washed-out, disappointed sisters! You have to be good - no make that great - to operate in these seas, Ross and Mystery certainly bear testament to that! Hanging at coffeeshops, and bars I would watch crash after crash of regular fellas and crash hard myself even using heavy patterns, eye contact, KINO and every form of takeaway. Can't move away 'cause of the nature of work I do. I work in film, dress well, drive a Porsche, look good for a heavier fella (230). I'm ranting, but I just want to expose the true nature of LA for average Joe's like me! I think we get caught in an catch-22 whirlwind,of not scoring and desperation starts to reek through our pores even with all the Jedi mindtricks we try to pull on ourselves!

Arrrrrggh!

Alpha, I totally feel for you dude. I just moved here from Austin, Texas, and the women there are pretty much what-you-see-is-what-you-get. So far I've had experiences with some crazy-ass bitches and some more worthy women, and I agree, many people here are all about using, abusing and playing destructive mindgames. One time I actually told one of them that for all I knew I couldn't trust her (we were discussing someone else too), and she responded, 'Yeah, but I'm the one who told you to be careful out here, because this isn't Texas.' The next day I caught in a bold-face lie to me (although I didn't bother telling her I knew), and I just laughed my ass off. Fortunately my intuition about her from the beginning alerted me to her lack of trustworthiness.

But you know what, if ANY of what she's told me about her past experiences is true, then she probably feels justified in taking it out against a helpless bumpkin from Texas. So I let her go on about her way, and I've gone on about mine, but I can sort of understand how ANYONE out here, man, woman or whatever, might get jaded, bitter or a bit paranoid about the seduction scene. Maybe someone else will have some good insights to share with us, but in the meantime, my plan is to sharpen my intuition, calibration and criteria for trust, mental stability, lack of diseases etc, and wear some big fat condoms.

Write me if you want a fellow brethren to kick with.

Halbmike: (Commenting on Mystery's comments):
> Mystery's Comments on above: I disagree with the "allow them to see you come
> and go several times" notion. I think it's a "one and done" sort of thing.
> You # close or instant date them after closing or forget it. To be seen
> again and again is to be grouped into the REGULAR CUSTOMER thing even if you
> weren't THEIR customer.

Actually Mystery we are in complete agreement. Upon reading that again I realize that I didn't communicate come and go clearly. I don't mean going to the club on multiple days. Come and go can be accomplished merely by doing things like going to the bathroom and returning again, or going outside for a minute and re-entering. Incidentally, for those who do selling, especially MLM or other types of home selling this is a very useful tactic.
> Mystery: I lovingly disagree on this point. I believe it isn't MONEY nor
> LOOKS but ... SOCIAL PROOF that they want. They want to SHOW YOU OFF. They
> would like all the other girls feeling JEALOUS that she has YOU. So - if
> you were on her arm and she brought you to the club's daytime
> Christmas party (like the one I went to - the club was closed to the
> public) you should be able to mingle and impress all the girls so they
> later say, "your guy is AWESOME." If you can convey that sort of
> thing when you meet a stripper, you are good to go.

Mystery, we have yet to disagree. And, this includes my comments on the hand model neg hit. I do believe that can work on some hot women some of the time. I'm just offering another method that I believe can work better. My method also conforms to a personal rule that I like to follow. I like to seduce woman by building them up rather than tearing them apart. Note that building them up doesn't mean kissing their derriere or putting them above you. Sometimes, you can empower yourself by empowering other people. RJ, Bishop, and Major Mark are all masters at that.
> Mystery: My general rule is: NO KINO ON STRIPPERS. Later at your house
> sure, but not in the club. AND - when they touch YOU, YOU act like you
> don't really like being touched. Pull away gently and consistently.
> Remember, they use KINO tactics all the time - it means NOTHING to
> them.

An occasionally pull away when they touch you is nice for adding a challenge. Another similar tactic is to allow them to touch you and totally ignore it. Very often they will ramp up what they do because they are seeking a response. My comments on touching refer to how you touch them rather than how they touch you.
> Mystery: Again, watch for the fake laugh - but if she's new, it's fun.

Mystery, you might be right about this. Perhaps, I just intuitively sense who I can do this with because this is just one example of many approaches that I use.

TGB669: Fuck the remainings of respect you caress for women and sharpen your compassion. That doesn't mean I want you to eagerly kill your habitual warm ( sp ) kindness and let your inner aggressiveness thrive. I mean I can get whatever I want when I can understand the dole to come. When you, for example, want a woman to give a fuck she must k(no)w or better feel that's right for her. Respect is per definitionem reviewing one's AFCness. I will hit delete and don't let a memory or fear keep me from realizing my dreams in any perspective, it is me who represents myself all the time. This covers fat'n'ugly people as well as babes who also communicate toward the world what they conceive themselves (respect yourself) to be. When shooting for the stars I don't mind hitting the moon. I cannot post that. I am no PUA . So here is the questions our pros can put below the comment:

1. I am highly emotional, how can I handle distrust? I mean the feeling that my leg is being pulled in the long run with someone, how can I impede that.

2. I am never alone having a problem to tell people to piss off as blatant as needful.

3. Some more general ideas on bodyspeak?

4. More adverbs?

My Comment: Huh?