Like Batman, be prepared
There are a lot of new readers here lately, so here are some links which will give you tons of great information:
www.fas.speed-seduction.com/ - Formhandle's A.S.F. archive, FAQ, and PUA
registry www.layguide.com - Tony's Lay Guide, NOW COMMERCIAL www.pickupguide.com - Maniac High's PUA Archive http://www.speed-seduction.com (site is either inactive or no longer relevant) - Ross Jeffries site (see the newsletters) www.seductionnow.com - This site has a lot that an aspiring PUA needs to know. www.trucor.com - Major Mark's site.
And let's not forget Mystery's Lounge (send me an email asking about it and I will forward it on to Mystery).
And don't forget these seminars: Ross Jeffries: Speed Seduction Seminars, 2001 LA Jan 19, 20, 21st Chicago April 27, 28, 29 London, England June 15, 16th 17th NYC July 27th, 28th, 29th Montreal, Canada August (Exact Date to be announced)
Magick/psychic Influence Seminars, 2001 LA, Feb 23, 24th, 25th Orlando, May 25, 26th 27th
Major Mark's Seminar Schedule for 2001 is the following: Jan 12-14 Basic Hypnosis in L.A. Feb 09-11 Stage Hypnosis in Las Vegas Mar 16-18 Special Topics: Adventures In ThoughtCrime -- Designing and Imprinting Your OWN Belief System, In Taos May 9-13 Awakening Unafraid in Montreal Jul 06-08 Stage Hypnosis in Wash. D.C. Sep 14-16 Advanced Hypnosis: Deep Trance, Mentalism and Beyond in Boulder Oct 12-14 Advanced Stage: Non-verbal Hypnosis in L.A.
For additional information on Ross's seminars, contact Dr. Yates Canipe at yatesj@ix.netcom.com or visit the website at http://www.speed-seduction.com (site is either inactive or no longer relevant) . For Major Mark, visit www.trucor.com .
For women, check out www.therulesbook.com/
Ross:
>BUT, here's my take on it. First and foremost, they want a man that is in
>CONTROL. (Of the situation, himself, his emotions, other people, her.
>Control of the entire reality that they share.)
>
>Let me ask you, if you were a woman that wanted to test a man to see if he
>will stay in control, how would you do it? Would you ask the man "If I get
>out of hand, will you spank me and put me in my place?"
>
>NO FUCKING WAY!!!
>
>So they test us by CHALLENGING to see if we'll stay in control. The reason I
>do all of this "Never give a woman a direct answer, unless it's NO. Never
>give a woman exactly what she wants." etc. is, ironically, to give her what
>she REALLY wants: a man that's in control.
Yesterday, I had a very interesting breakfast with a young lady, 23, who was recounting her various experiences with men.
She said something very interesting. She was recounting how she used to, due to her own insecurities, date lots of "nice guys".
She said, "You can make love with a nice guy. But you can't FUCK them. You can't FFFFFFuck someone you have power over!"
Hmmmmm......(She paid for her own breakfast too!)
>I was pointing out the DISTINCTIONS that make me attractive to the super
>hotties that I'm after.
>
>Most of the time, I'm enjoying myself, talking about whatever comes up,
>making jokes, and generally behaving like a normal person.
Kewl; ok, that wasn't clear to me. You had made a post about NEVER showing enthusiasm. That seemed to be to be the stereo-typical strong, silent, sullen guy I see so often with super-hotties.
You know the type? He's there pouting, looking totally cold, while she does everything in her power to kiss him up, rub on him, and he just DOESN'T respond.
>What's interesting is that because I usually (but not always) do these
>teasing and seemingly controlling things with a bit of a dry humor spin, I
>believe that the woman that I'm with has an internal response like "Wow,
>this guy is cocky, but I can't tell if he's serious or not. And I want to
>find out. But either way, he's funny and he's staying interested in me, and
>not being flagrantly abusive, so he must be interested at SOME level."
Adding in the humor is the crucial element and Sis is right on the money. My married yoga teacher who is completely fascinated by me said, "I can see women would think you are arrogant, but you aren't. You are COCKY. Arrogant people don't have a sense of humor and you are funny as hell!"
>The key is to WATCH FOR THE TESTS and be ready when they come.
I agree. Like Batman, be prepared.
>Cliff is waaaay right on this one. Persistence is key. Never give up. If a
>woman says "We're not going to have sex tonight" I immediately think to
>myself "Ohhh, she just let me know that she's feeling some temptation and
>wants to get the responsibility off of herself. This is going to be fun and
>easy."
It's smart not to take much of what a woman says at face value. Is this because they are DELIBERATELY lying?
No, I don't think so at all. While a very few ARE deliberate, flat-out, conscious liars, MOST women are very confused as to what they really want.
They are bouncing around between what they have been told, SOCIALLY they should do, want, feel, act, have and what the are USED to doing, having, feeling, etc. that the conflict drives them nutty.
And when people are confused, almost always the LAST thing they want is to resolve it for themselves.
Anymore, when a woman says something to me of importance, I silently, mentally append the following in front of it:
IT IS MY CURRENT PERCEPTION OF MY REALITY THAT........
Example. Oh, my boyfriend..he's my soul-mate.
becomes:
"IT IS MY CURRENT PERCEPTION OF MY REALITY THAT my boyfriend is my soul-mate".
As Cliff has said (at least privately to me), YOU NEVER MEET THE WOMAN YOU WANT WHEN YOU FIRST MEET HER BECAUSE SHE'S ALWAYS GOT ALL THE TESTS AND OTHER STUFF RUNNING AND GOING ON. So you've got to be prepared for and successfully handle it.
Great post; you've cleared things up nicely.
Marc: To Sisonpyh:
>From your comments in previous issues, especially the one where your female friend recommended Lady Chatterly's Lover as a guide to the female psyche, I sense that you are interested in exploring deeper structures of women's romantic psychology. If that is the case, Women and Desire by Polly Young-Eisendrath may be an interesting read for you. It's a well-researched book by a woman, who is also a psychoanalyst, feminist, Buddhist and Jungian. The analysis of the influence of society on female desires and power is intelligent, insightful and brutally honest. In fact, curiously, in many ways, it reminds me of Ross' train of thought of setting a woman free to be everything what she wants and more. In case you are interested, I could write up a decent review once I have read it fully.
>Craig:
> Now does anyone have any ideas on how to
> let a girl know you are good in bed BEFORE
> you get to the bedroom without being blatant
> or being a good dancer or kisser?)
The above question could also be phrased "what qualities does a good lover have?" or "how do women spot a good lover?"
Possibly, the answers are a person should be/seem passionate, open-minded, exudes sexuality, healthy and fit, talks romantically or is comfortable talking about sex.
Or you could just ask her, and mirror back those qualities in a different context to make it less blatant. Ask her what she likes in a good dancer, or in a kiss as a metaphor?
> Alan:
> I'm just about to LJBF a chick who is low drive and who
> "doesn't have much sexual experience" (her words).
> She has little experience, IMHO, because she has little
> interest. So she fails my screen. I like her: she's smart and
> educated, she has integrity, she's interesting to talk to. But
> for me, spending sarging /sexual time with her would be a waste.
Alan, I am assuming that you haven't been with her sexually yet, the following comments are not directed at you, but more of a general observation. And since sexual adventurism seems to be a major screening criteria for many men on this list, perhaps the women on Clifford's list can comment on it as well.
She has to have had an incredible sexual experience to feel the desire to do it again. Desire only arises when something was pleasurable or satisfying, and has now gone missing. Polly Young-Eisendrath suggests that women feel guilty about their lack of desire, even though their lack of enjoyment is the real problem (in Women and Desire, an interesting book that deals amongst other things with society's influence on women's social programming). This would also partly explain Sisopyh's success, he personally creates the desire for more.
Marc: It strikes me that at a point for a number of seductionists on this list, something seems to click, come together, just fits, is completely obvious, i.e. GameMaster aka Devilboy in his last post. Now, wouldn't it be interesting in addition to studying the process of falling in love and attraction, to understand what process or what steps people, and men in particular, go through on their way to become a good seductionist?
Therefore, my question is directed towards those who have developed a high skill level. Are there special changes, events or realizations on your journey that you have found to be very important to become who you are now? And in what order did you become aware of those?
Bjorn: I have a question to the PUA 's of the group. I am wondering how the PUA 's treat HB 's that have rejected them or pulled the " bitch shield " on them. Do the PUA 's completely ignore these females after that point? Do the PUA 's stay mad at these females? Or do PUA 's just act like nothing happened and continue to say hi to them (or smile at them)? My method is to completely ignore females that have rejected me but now I am thinking this is major AFC supplication???
My Comment: Just to get this straight, "to supplicate" means to propose from a junior position. Once you understand its true meaning, all this concern over supplicating (which I keep seeing people commenting on and not convincing me that they really know what the word means) is a lot clearer.
Bjorn (continuing): Also, in a previous posting someone asked what to do if you break the 3 second rule? I am at the point where I am about to approach an HB but then as I approach I detour and decide to go to the men's room to check my hair or something. My question is whether I should eject at this point or go through with the approach even though I broke the 3 second rule.
Vinigarr: Here's a gimmick/trick I use to plant a kiss on an HB .
Plan set to pick her up with my car. Before I get there, I adjust her seat in the robo-cop position. (All the way forward, totally inclined position.) When she gets in the car, I immediately lean over (to adjust the seat) while looking at her in the eyes (she's thinking.. "he's gonna kiss me" or "what's he gonna do") I say "relax and get more comfortable" and I adjust the seat (the idea of me kissing her is now hers, and she is in mild trance caused by the confusion of the move ). While I'm almost on top of her adjusting the seat, I say "mmmmmm smells wonderful.." and smell her neck all around. I then say "I'm wondering.......... it's either oil.. or .. perfume" and then lick her neck (in case it comes up: I can tell the difference, by tasting). Depending on the response to that I'll either go for the kiss, or resume to driving the car while I ask an interrupt question like "would you happen to know.... if it's supposed to rain on Thursday?" Later, when I want to start Kino , I use the smell the neck thing and since I've done it before, she's already warmed up for it :)
Optimus: I have a question for the group. Many of us agree that women want a man that they can't control. They want a man who is in control of himself among other things. And that the way they figure out if they can control you or not, or if you're in control or not, is to test you. If you pass her tests in a way that makes you appear to be someone she can't control, then she becomes more attracted to you, etc. Many guys fail because they supplicate and give in to her demands and so forth, and in general most women don't want a guy who will supplicate to her. What I wonder is, why is it, that sometimes guys can supplicate and "pass" very few tests, and will still end up in a relationship with an HB ? We've all had relationships like that prior to learning about SS or PUA , where we supplicated like every other typical AFC . How does that happen? Or maybe we know a friend who is involved in a relationship with a hot chick and he supplicates, gives in to her demands, and she has the upper hand in the relationship. How does this sort of thing happen, when women are supposed to be attracted to men who are in control and don't supplicate? Shouldn't women be turned off by a guy who is weak and constantly supplicates to her? To be honest, this has me baffled. The only answer I can think of, is the women who actually are attracted to guys who supplicate and aren't in control are really just manipulative chicks who get off in having boy toys that they can control like puppets. Am I right? Either that, or they simply have never met a man who would call her on her bullshit, not supplicate, and be totally in control of himself, and that they just accept reality as that she will ALWAYS have power over men, and men will always give in to her just because that's "how it is."
I mean, I look at some of my friends relationships and the frame is totally wrong. And I just can't figure it out.
Ross:
>Vinigarr:
> > Here are a couple of topics I'd like to see comments on:
> > The Roll of Persistence
>
>A friend of mine (has been with over 500 women) said
>that the roll of persistence has been the key in
>seducing all the women he has been with.
>
>He says that unless a woman tells him
>"don't call me any more" he will continue to
>call her and pitch for the meet. His rationale
>is, if she doesn't tell him to stop calling,
>then there is some interest, and persistence is
>what overcomes the resistance.
Actually, looked at from a Magickal perspective, as long as the person is resisting, then on SOME level of their mind there is a representation of you. In other words, RESISTANCE is not the same as completely putting you out of their mind. There IS a mental link in there, somewhere.
Someone once wrote about suggestion; at first they (suggestions) are resisted....then tolerated...then accepted...
The catch is to keep rules of respect running......what happens if these women blow him off, cancel on him, say "yes" verbally but "no" with their actions. Does he keep coming back WITHOUT calling them on it? I surely hope not. That isn't just resisting on their part, that is CONTEMPTING.
>He says using this tactic they either become a customer
>or tell him to get lost, which is only about 10% of the time.
What about stand-ups, flaking, cancellations? Hmmm?????
>AND how many guys have the balls
>and ability to maintain composure after getting blown off a few times..
>I am strong, I know what I want, and I go for it.. my persistence shows
>my beliefs."
What if she seriously disses him as well as resists?
>Broadaxe:
>
>And a question for Ross: With all due respect, if you can "do a 5 minute
>phobia cure and whack-out someone's fear" then why do many dudes who have
>gone to your seminars still have a fear of approaching women?
You missed what I said. I said, "a phobia". A phobia is NOT the same as "fear" or "anxiety". A phobia is a one-trial learning with massive, paralyzing, negative feeling attached.
Phobias have internal structures that are tailor-made for one session removal. That is NOT the same as a general fear or anxiety from a situation.
Handling THAT takes practice and daily investment of focus on building in what you would LIKE to have.
Now, I don't know about "so many dudes" in my seminar still having a fear of approaching women. I don't think that is necessarily true. Those who do the work and the drills GET THE RESULTS. Those who don't do the drills and expect ME to magically fix them do NOT get the results.
(to GameMaster):
>Don't think I don't know and appreciate the source of all this
>as crazy as it sounds but that's one reason I can pull off this
>'spiritual' bit cause it's so sincere. But you know, God
GOD? I thought you were talking about ME! Ha ha ha ha.
>This is the 'hot guy' pattern I mentioned to you earlier.
(Snip) Great pattern! I like it! Please, do accept my invitation to attend my next SS seminar as my personal guest of honor! Great, GREAT stuff!
Halbmike: Recently, a special friend sent me the following:
> The minute I heard my first love story
> I started looking for you, not knowing
>
> how blind that was.
>
> Lovers don't finally meet somewhere.
>
> They're in each other all along. - Rumi
Rumi was one of the greatest love poets that ever lived, and he is well worth checking out.
Tristan: Food for thought at www.pickupguide.com/control.htm
My Comment: The link above tells the story of Maniac High's experience with three women who, in different ways, like to experience a man in control. As this is a particularly popular topic here lately, you might want to read that report and comment on it here.
Tristan (Continuing): Here is something I found recently: A NEG HIT is a qualifier. The girl is FAILING to meet your high expectations. It's not an insult, just a judgement call on your part. The better looking the girl, the more aggressive you must be with using neg hits. A 10 can get 3 neg hits up front, while an 8 only 1 or 2 over a longer time. You CAN go overboard if they think you are BETTER than them You can drop the self-esteem right from under them (just like most 10's do to guys) and this isn't good. You have to get as close to the breaking point as you can without crossing the line. Once you have gotten her RIGHT THERE, you can start appreciating things about her (NEVER LOOKS). There is a mutual RESPECT now. Something most guys never get from the girl.
This is how you remove a bitch shield . 3 neg hits oughta do it within 2 or 3 minutes of neutral chat. Once it is down, you can from a mutual respect place, seduce her.
And here is a brilliant neg hit!!!!!!
Guy: What do you do? Gal: Oh, I'm a model. Guy: Oh, like a hand model or something?
Marc.: Sisonpyh recommended a number of books without mentioning the authors.
Who are the authors of these books?
Bad Boys by Carole Lieberman (?) Dangerous Men and Adventurous Women by Jayne Ann Krentz (?) How to Succeed With Women By Being A Jerk by ?? Endless Rapture by ??
Josh: Does anyone out there have good routines for AOL personals? They seem to be a different beast than other personals... the girls get many more responses (one stripper I met IRL from AOL said she got over 100 emails a day) and SS just doesn't seem to cut it when responding to their ads.
I know that Riker covered this in Methods and Masters, is it worth getting? I got an IM from a girl today that said my response seemed pre-written, but she thought I was cute so she IM'd me anyways... nice, but SS seemed to actually hurt rather than help in this instance.
Zvi: I happened to agree with lots of the fantastic stuff Sisonpyh wrote, so let me concur. I'm still behind on some of the recent emails, so pardon me if I'm repeating what others have said.
I wouldn't say that you should NEVER give her exactly what she wants, I'm all for making a woman supremely happy, but the way to do it is NOT what would seem logical to us guys, i.e., in a straightforward manner.
(1) First off, you should NEVER make her BLASÉ. That's obvious and goes for long-term and short-term. She must always be a [little bit] on her toes. Being content takes away the excitement. Women used to feel COMFORTABLE around me, and that's GOOD, except that in the past it would END with that -- and that's a SHITTY position to be in. I learned that COMFORT should be a given, like background music, but on its own it never leads anywhere. This is obvious.
(2) Second, she MUST work for it, and show that she's WORTHY of it. Otherwise they take it for granted. You value something that you've worked for.. you don't value something you just got gratuitously, even if its actual value is high. Personally I don't measure something by how much I had to work for it, but most people do, and that's certainly how women think.
(3) Re Mixed Messages. You don't want to leave her all CONFUSED, of course, but you should never be PREDICTABLE. There's a fine line. Mixed messages make you less PREDICTABLE. Predictable guys are boring. The moment she can anticipate what you'll do, you're history.
Mixed messages are also a form of fractionation: one minute you're super flirtatious or super deep, and the next minute you're doing or saying something totally unexpected, something silly, off the wall, whatever. It creates intrigue, confusion, makes her more suggestible, etc.
(4) I agree that you should never give her a direct answer (unless the answer is NO), but don't be EVASIVE. Again, there's a fine line. Being evasive creates MISTRUST, as if you're hiding something. So you give her an answer, with a spin, just enough for her to feel that she kind of got an answer but not 100%. She has to feel that it's hard to pin you down.
(5) She must always feel that deep down you're actually a passionate guy, with deeper emotions than you display.. and that THAT is just a bit elusive. She has to feel that she CAN get to the "real" you, with enough work on her end, but it's just a bit outside of her reach. In her mind she has to keep HOPING that she WILL get to the real you. You do that by giving her glimpses of your depth... and then concealing it. It drives them crazy. They never know how to read you 100%. Always make sure that they feel there's more to you than meets the eye, that she hasn't finished "discovering" you. This'll keep you as a challenge: the challenge being, How deeply can she get, where no other woman has gone before? Will SHE be The One that'll open you up? That's a BIG challenge, esp. if you want to spend more than an occasional night with her. That's why there must always be some level of MYSTERY about you. You'll remain a challenge for as long as you keep up with this. Once the mystery is gone, the challenge will be gone and so will she. I would like to be totally open with women, but I find that when I am, poof! all the excitement is gone. So if that's how they want it, they deserve what they get.
(6) Another way of saying this is that she must always feel that there's a SUBTEXT to your interaction, and you let her fill in the blanks (but don't be misleading.. that creates too many problems down the road). That's the power of metaphors: you're talking about one thing, and she's thinking about what you're "really" talking about. So there's two levels to your interaction. If she doesn't have that, and you're just outright straightforward, she might or might not like what she sees, but it surely wouldn't keep her intrigued. It's just too boring. The perceived subtext keeps up the tension, a healthy tension.
(7) Part of knowing how to structure challenges is knowing how to show her that her efforts are working. If she keeps climbing up a wall and no matter what she does is useless, eventually she'll stop trying and give up. She must feel that her efforts are leading somewhere, but never as fast as she'd like them to go and never exactly where she wanted them to go.
(8) Part of conditioning is knowing when to throw in a BONUS. The bonus should be something that's totally unexpected and way beyond what she imagined. That'll show her that you CAN be a giver, and a very large giver, but, as Sisonpyh says, on YOUR TERMS. That'll keep her ANTICIPATING.. and in line.
Olivier: Now does anyone have any
> ideas on how to let a girl know you are good in bed BEFORE you get to the
> bedroom without being blatant or being a good dancer or kisser?
That is probably easier than actually delivering the real thing in bed. You just have to think about great marketing where you have been convinced that the product is really the best thing in the world even if you did not try it.
Use a pattern around the topic 'What a great lover is and what feelings he gives to his partner during intercourse'. If you're good at it, she will imagine how wonderful it could be to sleep with you and she will want to try it.
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