Most women are not expecting to be seduced while they are out shopping at the mall
Adam:
turns about 29... Some females lose their looks earlier than that age (case in point; Alicia "man-hands" Silverstone or Drew Barrymore) and their "bitch shields " will need to come down at a much earlier age. Once former HB 's lose their looks, they might be lucky if some "dorky AFC" with shaky knees even notices them, let alone approaches them.Flyer:
turns about 29... Some females lose their looks earlier than that age (case in point; Alicia "man-hands" Silverstone or Drew Barrymore) and their " bitch shields " will need to come down at a much earlier age. " doesn't really grow up until her looks start to fade; when she discovers she can no longer compete as easily with HB 's ten years younger than her. The problem here is: Who the fuck wants when they turn to crap? There are a lot of old broads I have met here (35+) who I look at and can just imagine how absolutely stunning they might have been at 20. Now, before anyone reading this goes into the "Hey, what's so bad about a more mature women with experience, etc. . . yadda yadda yadda", In my opinion, geezer love is for afc 's and guys who can't get hot young ones. And one does not need much seduction skills to bag an old bag. The difference could be for those who have a fetish for this sort of thing. Guys who have a fixation for old chycks and fat broads are very lucky; there is an abundance of them, and they are more desperate for a man, which gives them more leverage with these kind of women.
Reddog: In a way, mating is like fighting. There are certain attributes that give one an advantage. When it comes to fighting, size, strength, stamina, speed, endurance and a fighting spirit are advantages. So, why is it that guys who posses all these traits sometimes get their asses kicked by guys who come up short in all save the last category? Simple, The big guy figured that, with all his advantages, he just had to land the straight right hand his Dad taught him. The little guy had a pretty good idea of what was coming, Dodged it & attacked all the weak spots that the big guy never learned how to defend. In short, he knew what he was doing. The big guy didn't. Mating is the same. Looks, money, prestige, fame & a dick the size of a baby's arm are all advantages. But, the whole trick behind mating is to find out how your prospect really wants to feel and make her feel that way. The guy who can do that will practically always beat out the guy who can't, even if he's outgunned in other ways.
Now, imagine how successful you'd be if you had all the advantages and knew what you were doing.
Ross: >Chris: >Someone on your list asked for links to stuff written by the guy behind the >Tao of Steve. Below is a link to an relationship/seduction advice column >written by Duncan, the real-life PUA on whom the Tao of Steve is based. >www.taoofsteve.com/askdexorsyd/index.html >Hopefully your readers will find this useful. There's some other stuff on >that same website that may be of interest as well.
Just checked it out! Duncan is a VERY bright guy with lots of insight and a great sense of humor. I can see how and why chycks would like him. I think a real key to his success is, HE DOESN'T IDEALIZE WOMEN. He sees them for how and who they are. If he learned a little SS he'd be VERY dangerous.
Linda (Commenting on: I don't think it's deceptive or unethical because with SS , it is up to the woman to ultimately decide, after you lay down all the moves and patterns, whether or not she wants to do anything with you. And with SS , if she really wants to stay "just friends" with you, that's all you'll be, and with SS you know when to bail if being just friends isn't what you want. ...one decided that he wants to sleep with a woman simply by initiating the SS process, and that somehow the woman is control of both directions on the two-way street that is seduction. Is an ethical seduction one in which one gender ultimately decides the other's path? Maybe if you're into S&M. I wouldn't think so. What if she decides that she wants to do something with you, but you don't? But this isn't about ethics, it's about the following: I look at SS as a better process of screening women; determining whether or not she'll be an "attention whore," psycho, what have you, - or - someone that you'd really like to continue w
ith for all your own, and her own, reasons. I don't want to sound arrogant, but the challenge lies not in getting a roll in the hay - it's in creating an experience that's enjoyable at more than just a single moment.")
Yes, I've presupposed that the man wants sex. Eventually. Don't most men use SS for that reason? And you've made some interesting points. Perhaps I was unclear in my explanation. I was wrong in saying that the woman decides ultimately because as you pointed out that the man decides when he wants to stop his pursuit. I do believe that we agree on the points you bring up. Many people, both men and women, have debated with me about the ethicalness of SS , of using NLP for the purpose of improving one's chances to have sex. You're right in that SS isn't a matter of ethics; it's a matter of communication. SS improves communication and that's good. I've always thought SS was a great thing for both parties involved for that reason. Yes, the man screens a woman with SS . He begins and she responds. Based on that response he continues. Or not. With SS men pay attention to a woman's response and act accordingly. Most men who don't use SS just keep on hitting on a woman even though she's giving nonverbals that tell him to go away.
Spin Doctor: Re:Divines rolling tirade and her attempt to shame the guy who wrote her Yes, guys like to fuck and even more so to add conquests to their lists, that's all. It's in the genes and I don't mean Levis. FYI your piece represents mostly unconscious projections of your animus the man inside of you that you see in other men. Unfortunately, your ego which has been formed by what you have been told to accept is disgusted with this REALITY. I for one would savour the scenario of the death bed you portray. They would be fond memories of a fruitful life doing what comes naturally from primordial urges without ego being the fashion of the day.
Chuck: Re: City girls vs. Country girls or whatever. Reminds me of when I was growing up. Being a Protestant, the common thing I heard was that the Catholic girls screwed like bunnies so the thing to do was just go find a Catholic girl to for true happiness. Was talking to a Catholic guy and he was telling me that he and his buddies were always out on the lookout for Protestant girls as they screwed like bunnies! My point being is that for some reason, we seem to feel like if conditions were different - we'd meet a Catholic/Protestant/City/Rural girl - anything different than what's around us now, we'd be doing a whole lot better than we are now. Seems like seeking for a change in the external condition is much easier than looking inside ourselves and making those changes so it didn't matter if the women around us are Catholic/Protestant/City/Rural, they'd just be women and we'd just go for it anyway!
Linda: >Bjorn: >To Linda: >Linda asks "when does the bitch shield come down?". I would say typically >once an HB turns about 29... Some females lose their looks earlier than >that age (case in point; Alicia ["man-hands"] Silverstone or Drew Barrymore) >and their " bitch shields " will need to come down at a much earlier age. Once >former HB 's lose their looks, they might be lucky if some "dorky afc " with >shaky knees even notices them, let alone approaches them.
Yeah, I put down my bitch shield in my late twenties but it was mainly because of wisdom rather than age or loss of looks... Well, I can't speak for all women but as I said before, if a guy has an interesting, fun and different approach, I think that even the hottest babe with the toughest shield may put hers down out of curiosity. I think the same goes for the HB guys. I know women who may not be the prettiest but because they have a great personality and are fun to be around, they have landed some great guys who love them and think they are HB 's. Age, loss of looks and gains in weight are factors, for some women to dump the shield. Desperation is another factor. But there are some old, heavy non- HB 's who still put theirs up. I think Ross's advice about approaching chycks in places other than clubs and bars must be taken...most women are not expecting to be seduced while they are out shopping at the mall or getting a latte at Starbucks. There's something about the unexpected. >To Linda/Devine: >My comment on "good looking guys are jerks". Well, it is women who make >these guys into jerks in the first place. It is a proven fact that HB 's >PREFER good looking guys who are jerks and mistreat them, case in point; >Charlie Sheen. What is one of the most common phrases amongst HB 's??? >Give up?? >"I can't believe I slept with him!!! He is such a jerk!!!" >One thing I am grateful for about SS and this newsletter is that I have been >educated to NEVER ever supplicate to an HB again. Comments from Linda and >other females are appreciated and simply reinforce the point of non >supplication!
Thanks, Bjorn! Most of my friends are men, nice guys who are afc 's and I have seen them get trampled by chycks. Or they are unhappy because they get chycks they don't really like or respect, usually settling for some psycho baggage queen. While I recommended SS to them, most of them went to the website and were offended by some of the stuff. Oh, well. If they keep doing what they're doing, they are going to keep getting what they're getting.
dj eclypz: This Don fellah had to rehash the old Bjorn situation. Awhh Bjorn, now there's another guy that I got something to say to. Bjorn, with all due sincerity, you mentioned a PUA frame a while back. Well, I'm here to tell you that I haven't met a pick up artist yet. More like a pick up performer. Ross has mentioned before the difference between a performer and an artist. I'm not going to go into it, but therein lies a distinction. Do you want to perform a rehearsed routine fitting within other's expectations and pleasing everyone else, or would you rather be an artist and shape and mold the way others see things, presenting them an opportunity to see things differently? You're all just playing games aren't you? stand up and be counted. Seriously. Whatever your intent is when introducing yourself to a "brawd" or an " HB " or a "hottie" you need to discover what it truly is. I've already told plenty of people, including women, that I don't play games. After all why would you want to sit in front of a computer screen and push buttons, when you could live this adventure right here in front of you right now with me! Why would you want to play with a woman's heart INTENTIONALLY for just a moment's pleasure? Why aren't you man enough to just state what it is you want? I've done it before. I have told a woman, hey look. All I really want right now is wild sex. Nothing more. Are you interested? And you know what? When I say it I mean it. I am no longer going to sit on my ass. I'm no longer going to allow other's stereotypes, generalizations, negativity, or self limitations to ever hold me back again. I'm sick and tired of all this shit. Number one, all the griping about whether this shit works or not. SS this SS that. For Christsakes people, Ross didn't invent the wheel! Yes, Ross figured out some kick ass shit so us boys could get off our asses and learn how to be men. But people have been doing this ever since the beginning of time! Poets, politicians, lawyers, teachers, hypnotists, and just regular people have used the power of language to their benefit. The only difference is, for the most part, they didn't know how they were doing it! That's where Ross stepped in. Now you're prolly thinkin' what is it about this SS stuff that makes you a man? Getting laid? NOPE! Spewing forth poetic ramblings, does that make you a man? NOPE! The most important thing I learned about this stuff, is that it has forced me to finally look at all the crap I had been carrying around with me for years. It has made me totally look back at the way I used to look at things, and look forward into infinite possibilities. Spit out all the patterns you want. Go ahead, try them. PATTERNS ARE LIKE WORKSHEETS. They are frames, examples. They are ways of you being able to notice the power of words. But, put no power behind those words, and you're screwed. Go on living life in your shell, go on hating women or rather your stereotype of women. Go on pulling tricks out of your hat, go on being a PLAYER (I don't know what Ross thinks, but I took on SS precisely because I wanted to avoid the PLAYER world entirely.) Ok, look. This is a seduction list. It isn't limited to SS . That's why I like this list. No limits. One thing I hope to get out of this list is just that. No limits. And all I have been hearing has been limited ways of thinking. THAT HAS TO STOP! One other thing. I like grounded research gotten through experience. That's why I seldom write to Cliff, or post to other lists. I wait to have something verifiable that everyone can use. I don't sit around and conjecture 'til I pass out and then send it into Cliff. I can see why other guys don't believe SS can work (it can't by the way. Only the person behind the words can make anything happen). So continue your doubt. Or become headstrong with your belief that it doesn't. I believe there is a guy named R. Don Steele waiting to get a business partner. Maybe you guys can sell pheromones or something. Whatever you decide to do, decide something and quit relying on this newsletter to be a backboard for your lack of adventure, and start sharing some ideas that might possibly help others to live out their dreams of having options in life, like who they can fall in love with. After all, that's what it's all about my friends, LOVE.
Divine (Daddy's little hypnoslut): (Commenting on: "Bjorn said:To Linda/Divine: My comment on "good looking guys are jerks". Well, it is women who make these guys into jerks in the first place. It is a proven fact that HB 's PREFER good looking guys who are jerks and mistreat them, case in point; Charlie Sheen. What is one of the most common phrases amongst HB 's??? Give up?? "I can't believe I slept with him!!! He is such a jerk!!!" One thing I am grateful for about SS and this newsletter is that I have been educated to NEVER ever supplicate to an HB again. Comments from Linda and other females are appreciated and simply reinforce the point of non supplication!"):
I agree..as stated previously hot guys (and hot girls) are this way because they are taught they can get away with it. This is way kowtowing (supplicating) to desirable men or women is not the way to go. At best they just aren't interested and at worst they see you as someone they can "play" for stuff and discard. Some hotties in both categories are simply going to be shallow and empty no matter what, but those who are worth it will respond much better to a confidant and self-positive person. That's what my guyfriend that uses the "you can't interest me approach" is doing. He just KNOWS it, is the only difference. He knows that the ones worth pursuing are those whose self esteem is such that they aren't going to beg or chase or supplicate. His technique is arrogant to a point, but valid. He quickly weeds out those that are weak. Granted this leaves behind broken hearts but is kind in it's own fashion, albeit twisted kindness. He isn't pulling any punches. Beauty is revered so much in this society that those who have are often misserved by getting too much too easily. I say, imo, this is no real service as many fail to learn important integrity lessons and therefore fail to get anything meaningful from anything or anyone they encounter. It's sad really, but some are taught better and those are the ones that are worth knowing. Again, if one's only motivation is a notch of hotties on their belts..they have their own shallow souls to worry them. They were taught the inverse side of the beauty trap of our society, that having or conquering beauty is fulfilling in and of itself, regardless what quality of person or contact that conquest is. Now being able to attract and interact with beauty and personality, that's the real challenge and gifts one with the real treasure, be it for a short term fling or a relationship.
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