At first her husband looked confused...
This is Cliff's Private List, a free e-mail relating to seduction. Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from people commenting are separated by IIIIIIII with each commentator's name preceding each comment. Comments from previous emails are preceded by an ">", usually in front of that commentator's name). Feel free to forward this email to all your friends and encourage them to request a free subscription. If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list to receive this, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be removed to cliff@cliffslist.com and it will be done. If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask. All posts you see here have been submitted by the author, or permission granted by the author to be reposted here. All emails should now be sent to cliff@cliffslist.com. Hitting "REPLY" to this will no longer result in my getting your email - make sure you enter in my address. PLEASE DO NOT SEND EMAILS TO CLIFFSLIST@HOTMAIL.COM.
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Zan:
> Craig wrote: Zan told me about a friend of his who is in his forties and gets more young ass than he does. Zan said that often HE is the first one to bring up his age in a cocky, challenging way... like if the girl mentions sex or date, he'll say, "With you? HA! I'm probably twice your age... you could never keep up with me!". Or if the girl asks him straight up how old he is, he'll say, "I'm old enough to be your daddy". I've been using the last line and the structure of the first with lots of success, even though I'm only a few years older than most of my target
s. I can see how these would work really well for older guys too.
Zan: Hey Craig, yeah it's true. When I was in my early 30s , I used to mask my age somewhat. I wouldn't bring it up, I would joke around if asked my age, and basically stall before I would finally answer her.
Then I discovered, believe it or not, that girls are MORE interested in me BECAUSE of my age.
wtf, I know, but it's true.
Ever the opportunist, I started to use that. Now when I start talking to a young girl, one of the first things I bring up is my age, like you mentioned, Craig.
If you are evasive about it, the seduction goes off-center somewhat - you get negative vibes. But if you bring it up right away before she does, it NEVER is an issue again.
Of course, a girl isn't going to bring me home to meet her parents - she will find some AFC dude her own age for that. I am not offering to be her boyfriend, and she is not viewing me within that framework. That's why it works.
Instead, she perceives me for exactly what I am - an adventure. This gives me massive liberties with her. I can pretty much tell her exactly what I would like to do with her, and she is not offended.
This only works from a position of non-neediness and inner strength. For instance, I tend to say things like "Hey, you're cute - but your friend is kind of cute, too. Introduce me... (smile / wink)"
Nick V.:
The myth of monogamy
Under pressure, Turkey has abandoned plans to make adultery a criminal offence. Sushi Das examines why cheating is natural.
Adultery - the root of so many problems. It's responsible for broken hearts, shattered families, confused children and of course, the start of impeachment proceedings against a US president.
Certainly, the scandalous filmic quality of an illicit affair can transport a person out of the coma of an uneventful marriage into the jaws of a passionate, real-life drama where snatched moments with lovers become epic, life-changing, meaningful acts. Indeed, a bit on the side is one of the most intriguing topics of conversation, inviting endless moralizing and finger pointing.
Religious codes condemn adultery as an unforgivable sin. Social codes make it morally unacceptable. Yet liberal societies afford it a general, low level acceptance. How else could adultery be central to the plots of so many movies (The First Wives' Club), books (Lady Chatterley's Lover) and plays (Othello)?
Forbidden it may be, but few democracies would consider making adultery a criminal offence. Not so in Turkey, a secular democracy with a majority Muslim population. In the face of furious protests from liberals and women's groups, the Turkish Government this week abandoned plans to criminalise adultery - a move that threatened the country's prospects of joining the European Union.
Turkey's devout Muslim Prime Minister, Tayyip Erdogan, had defended the move, saying outlawing marital infidelity was a vital step towards preserving the family and "human honour" and Turkey did not have to adopt "imperfect" Western morals.
Adultery was illegal in Turkey until the late '90s, when the constitutional court struck the law down saying it penalized women more than men. But Turkish authorities are not the only ones that see adultery as a heinous crime. In Saudi Arabia, where the long arm of the state reaches into people's personal lives, adultery is punishable by death. In Pakistan, the maximum punishment is stoning to death for married people and 100 lashes for unmarried people. In 2002, an Islamic court in Nigeria sparked international outrage when it sentenced a woman to be stoned to death for having a baby outside marriage. A Sharia Appeals Court eventually overruled the sentence.
In liberal democracies, until recent times, adultery still rated a mention in divorce law. Only a few months ago France, a country reputed for its liberal attitude to marital fidelity, finally removed adultery as an automatic grounds for divorce. Under the ritual of the "constat d'adultere" a court bailiff was required to enter the premises and confirm the presence of the adulterous couple.
Picture: Getty Images
Australia removed adultery as a specific grounds for divorce in 1976. Britain has also modernized its divorce laws, but 200 years ago a person needed to obtain an Act of Parliament, for which proof of adultery was required, before a divorce could be granted. So the message is loud and clear: adultery is wrong. But were humans meant to be monogamous? Meant to meet a life partner, have sex with that person and that person alone for the rest of their lives? Are humans instinctively adulterous?
According to many scientific experts, monogamy is a myth and we now have DNA testing to prove it. In their book Myth of Monogamy: Fidelity and Infidelity in Animals and People, husband-and-wife team, behavioural scientist David P. Barash and psychiatrist Judith Eve Lipton, argue that monogamy "goes against some of the deep-seated inclinations with which biology has endowed most creatures, including humans".
Monogamy, they argue, is unnatural, but that doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile. After all, when a couple remains together, bound by fidelity, it makes it easier to bring up children and stop the spread of sexually transmitted diseases.
Barash and Lipton argue that in nature, very few animals practise monogamy. Scientists used to think that some species, mainly birds, were monogamous but genetic testing has proved that while some animals might stay with a mate for a very long time, most have sex with others outside their "pairing". Many humans do the same.
But why do we stray? According to Professor Colin Groves, a professor of biological anthropology at ANU, the tendency to wander arises from a deep-seated search "to get better genes" and men and women are equally adulterous.
Groves illustrates the point with the example of birds. "In theory the female, like the male, would seek out the best partner with the best genes and it might not be the same individual as the partner with the best parenting skills. So that's the idea: to get the best genes and come back and deposit the result of these excellent genes into the nest of the male that's going to make the best parent. The same is true for primates."
He says humans use religious and social codes to prohibit adultery in order to bind society. "In humans, where bonding is official - in marriage, it is more than just a link between two partners," he says. "It s a link between two families or two clans, and it would clearly be a very bad thing if one clan suspected that the woman who is supposed to be increasing their particular numbers is actually having children by a completely different clan."
Dr Anthony Marcus, an anthropologist and senior lecturer at Melbourne University Private, says that's just part of the story. "It's human nature to be a social animal, intimately and intensely involved in others," he says. He points out that sex, kinship and property are all linked. While humans enjoy chasing the sexual thrill, they are also driven by their to desire to "spread relationships". Monogamy, he argues, is "something created and imposed by human beings as a way of managing the intersection of political and social affairs."
"Affairs is probably the wrong word here," he adds as an afterthought. It seems not only is monogamy difficult, it is also rare. Everywhere we care to look, there seems to be an adulterer. Former US president Bill Clinton's affair with Monica Lewinsky led him to commit perjury, which resulted in impeachment proceedings. Jimmy Carter talked about it: "I've looked on many women with lust. I've committed adultery in my heart many times."
Prince Charles admitted he had had an affair during his marriage. And then there are the legendary philanderers: J.F. Kennedy, Henry VIII, Cleopatra and Mark Antony. More recently, celebrities suffer regularly from accusations of infidelity: Mick Jagger and David Beckham come immediately to mind. And just this week George W. Bush has had the finger pointed at him.
American celebrity gossip biographer Kitty Kelley, in her new book, The Real Story of the Bush Dynasty, reportedly mentions "free floating rumours of adultery". The book provides no evidence, though.
Of course, Australia has its share of illicit couplings. Former Democrats leader Cheryl Kernot was exposed as having had a sexual affair with former Labor minister Gareth Evans. Footballer Wayne Carey was forced to leave the Kangaroos more than two years ago after it emerged he had been having an affair with the wife of teammate Anthony Stevens.
And of course the most memorable incident of infidelity by a sportsman involved tennis player Boris Becker, who revealed in his biography that he "got down to business" with a waitress in the broom cupboard of a London restaurant only hours after his pregnant wife went to hospital to give birth.
Adultery has always been an intrinsic part of our society, despite what Commandment number seven in the Bible has to say: "Thou shalt not commit adultery."
The Koran goes further: " . . . if married persons commit it (illegal sex), the punishment is to stone them to death, according to Allah's law." (Surah An-Nur 24:2)
But in the West, times have moved on. It is now not only possible to buy the services of those who will help catch a cheating spouse (www.catchacheat.com), it is also possible to buy the services of those who will provide a cheating spouse with an alibi. For a fee, the online Alibi Agency in England will organize fake conferences, or issue receipts to cover buying dinners for two.
For some, adultery is irresistible. The 1999 Durex Global Sex Survey that questioned 4200 people across 14 countries found young Thais were the most likely to have been unfaithful to a sexual partner (52 per cent) - the figure possibly reflects the country's large commercial sex industry.
The US, where they like to do everything bigger and better, came next (43 per cent), followed by Greece and Czech Republic (both 38 per cent), Singapore (37 per cent), Germany (36 per cent) France (34 per cent) Italy (33 per cent) Canada (32 per cent and the UK (31 per cent).
And who were the most faithful? The Mexicans - with a global low of 23 per cent admitting to infidelity. The previous year, the survey found the global average for infidelity across all ages was 37 per cent.
Adultery - it's a global phenomenon and there certainly seems to be a lot of it about. As French playwright and novelist Alexandre Dumas (the younger) once wrote: "the chains of marriage are so heavy that it takes two to bear them, and sometimes three."
KK HH:
Hi, I've been on this list for 3 years but never got to "try" to learn this stuff. Nevertheless I've used many ideas presented here to improve my social/conversational skills. This summer though, I feel the need to start really learning this stuff. But after a 3 weeks since school starts, I am half-stuck and have several questions:
First, let me describe my environment. I am in a college campus of friendly atmosphere and you can basically go up and talk to everyone on the street who you don't know and they'd almost always give you a big smile.
Second, the places I intended to practice this stuff is on the campus streets, dining halls, and libraries.
Third, I remembered someone on this list recommended learning this stuff chunk by chunk. I figure I need lots of fresh faces to practice this, so I need to randomly pick people I don't know and talk to them.
So far, I've experimented stopping girls on the streets just by saying "hi", then commented on something about them depending on the situation. I've also done the same thing to girls sitting near me in libraries/classrooms, etc.
I usually say something about/concerning them after the initial "hi", such as "you looked tired", or "are you happy today" if they looked kinda pissed, etc. The responses are almost all positive. However, after that, I am stuck and I've got to go back to the normal and boring conversation about classes, weekends, etc.
Questions:
1) I realize, after the initial experimentation these past two weeks, that you have to keep their attention after stopping them. In situations where they are going to their next classes or have something to do, how can you keep their attention after the initial approach... any specific ideas I can try?
2) Also, I sense that framing the conversation from the start is important, or else a conversation inevitably turns into a boring conversation of information exchange. Sometimes, they try to continue the conversation when I am stuck. Yet, they too don't know what to say and end up steering the conversation to boredom.
3) My goal is to get lots of dates and start working on my mid game. But I realize it's very awkward to # close unless there's something generated during the interaction... be it sexual tension, attraction, whatever. It's related to the second question: I can bring an initial laugh, but how can you achieve tension in 1-2 minutes? Without that, I can't #close and start going to the other stage.
4) Finally, it'd be great if you guys throw out some specific ideas/techniques to achieve this. I've been thinking about this for a while, but other than funny questions/ situational comments to stop them in their tracks, I can't think of anything else to bring that special thing into account. I've heard of c&f, and I bought that book last week. I cancelled my order though because I was looking for lots of concrete examples to try. My thinking is after copying other people's routines and practice them for a long time, I'll come to get the "feel" and start generating c&f comments on my own. I've also tried to use simple 'cold reads' starting with "you look", "you seem" etc. They spilled out information about themselves but asking more questions eventually become trite and boring...
Dwacon (Glass for your ass...http://ww2.sextoysex.com/sex/start/toys/list.html?a=pietroaretino&q=%28%28GF%5FPNAME%7E%26%22pyrex%22%29OR%28GF%5FPNAME%7E%26%22pyrex%22%29%29AND%28disc%3D%22%22%29AND%20NOT%28pnum%7E%22CNVHM%22%29&d=P_1&xs=1&xe=20&st=3&sb=as):
Phero-moans
My work and travel schedule has left little time for fun and play... but on my last business trip, I convinced myself that I would have some fun. I flew west for a two-day meeting where I was selling our service line to a group of two men and six women. The first day went fairly uneventful and rather than go back to the hotel I stopped by a nearby gentleman’s establishment for cheap beer and maybe a lap dance or two.
After an hour of so of flirting with the waitress while ignoring the dancers, one cute Latina came over and offered to show me the VIP room. We went up and she started out doing the "standard" lap dance moves but got a little carried away and literally put my hands everywhere that standard lap dance etiquette says they shouldn't go. She peeled off her pasties and had me sucking her nipples and fingering her – she got so turned on that she humped me ferociously. She came so hard that her panties were soaked and I wound up being drenched with her juices.
This was a problem, since I had only packed one business suit for this trip and now I was smelling like pu$$y. I couldn't find any Febreze® or equivalent fabric refresher in the stores near my hotel, so I let the suit air out as best I could and just hoped for the best.
The next day, I went for the second meeting and hoped no one would notice. Something strange happened – the conversation kept turning to sex. The previously stoic and all-businesslike women were now making comments that went *way* over the line. One was talking about taking a trip to Jamaica so she could have two Jamaicans tie their penises together and she could play "jump rope" with them. Every time I would try to steer the topic back on business, it would get derailed with some R-rated and even NC-17 comments made by the women in the group.
I went to the hotel and sat at the bar and the bartender agreed... the dancer’s pheromones had an affect on the women in the room. I drink or two later, a 7 came and sat a couple bar stools to my right and a young couple (a musclehead married to a 10+) sat to my left. I ignored the 7 and noticed the 10+ was making eyes. The 7 actually slid over next to me and when I refused to acknowledge her she initiated kino and a number close. The 10+ kept flirting like crazy. At first her husband looked confused... then he started getting pissed off. Rather than catch a beat down, I exited.
I caught a flight home the next morning and the following day back at my office I wore the same suit without thinking about it. When I noticed the women in the office all walking around with erect nipples and finding excuses to bump or brush against me, I remembered and made a note to take the suit to the cleaners that evening!
I’m thinking of repeating this again as an experiment– maybe have a pivot "juice" me before I go out to see how it would affect my sarging at a club...
Box:
This is a review of the "Freedom With Women" seminar I recently attended, led by Ron Louis and David Copeland of www.howtosuceedwithwomen.com/. I'll try to compare it with workshops that I've attended by Real Social Dynamics (RSD), Mystery, and Ross Jeffries (RJ).
Most of what was taught is covered in their two books, "How to Succeed with Women" and "How to Talk to Women", so you can get a flavor of their approach without spending the bucks for the workshop. (If you pick up these books be sure to check the names of the authors, as the first book has the same title as one by a different author.) In addition to the material, there were trips and practice sessions that were extremely valuable, and I'll describe those at the end of this review. In many ways, that was the best part.
Their method, and seminar, is less technique focused than RSD or Mystery. Much of their work would seem to be techniques that the average good-with-women person would do, but that some of us never learned. In particular, they talk about complimenting a women, developing rapport, etc. Some of the fans of pure alpha-male technique will find their approach a bit AFC or supplicating, but I think this criticism is not totally warranted. I have a theory, as yet unproven, that the alpha-male-get-the-woman-all-excited techniques are best for fast club game, while the Louis and Copeland techniques are better for slow developing relationships, and can lead to longer relationships. Of course, only you know which game you prefer to play. And of course my theory may even be wrong! At this seminar you will not see pickup masters getting 10 women wet in one night, like you might on a RSD seminar. However...
These guys really shine in two areas. First, in my opinion they have excellent insight and solutions regarding the blocks that stop guys from approaching and seducing women. If you are able to, I think it is best to "just do it" and blast through your blocks with the help of a wing. There's nothing like actually doing it. But, if you've tried that and feel blocked, perhaps after years of trying, these guys have some insight that may help you quite a bit.
Perhaps this is the reason that most guys in the course were 5-10 years older than what you would find at an RSD seminar. I'd say most were their 30's, with a few in their 20's or 40's. There was one guy in his 50's (who ended up kissing a lot of 22 year old women in the bars -- go figure). If you've had blocks for years, you'll hear (or read) alot that describes your situation, and what to do about it. RSD and Mystery don't do much with blocks, other than try to force you past them. RJ does do some NLP stuff to help people with these blocks, using NLP phobia techniques.
There was a practice session with 7 attractive women, hired to talk to us and give us feedback. The format was like a speed-dating event, going from person to person every 10 minutes or so. We were expected to work through their conversational/seduction method. They posted signs behind each women listing the steps of a seduction, so we could work through them. It would be helpful if bars would post these, too! The women were instructed to give you honest feedback about how you appeared to them, which was helpful.
However, shining moment number 2 was the Saturday field trip. I won't spill all the beans, because the surprise helped, but this trip was amazing. They have a situation available in their area (Madison Wisconsin) that will give you a very good experience with some amazingly attractive women. No, they don't hire strippers! Basically, they set down some guidelines, get the group's energy level up, and go out to bars. I have photos of gorgeous women hanging off of me on this trip. Part of this exercise involves asking women some pretty unreasonable things, or at least they seemed unreasonable to me. But because of the mind set we were in, the women were happy to comply. The next day the instructors described it at "Last night you were the blond with the big tits.
See how it feels?" In a sense, I think I got a bit of what Swinggcat calls the "you are the prize" frame from this experience. This was due to the group's energy level and the "special situation". This can't be directly repeated in a normal pickup, but some things will carry over...
What I learned from the field trip was 1) that the energy level and mental state of a group of guys makes an amazing difference, and 2) with the proper frame, women will respond to you in a way you never thought was possible. In fact, I'd have to say that my model of how the world works and how people interact was totally blown away. Now, my model was already blown away the previous year when I watched TD of RSD do his thing. But this time, the women were reacting to me, not him.
So that's it folks. Anybody would benefit from this workshop, but if you have blocks that prevent you from approaching women and your model of the world is that women will never get too excited about you, then this is the workshop to take.
Mike:
I thought the interview with Stephen was good in it's own way. Not as good as the pieces on Brian (and that could have been as much me as anything) but if one looked, there were some things of value. Be that as it may, I thought Stephen came up with some contradictions that still have me scratching my head. First of all, he doesn't really seem to all that comfortable with the PU community (it seemed to be a major theme of the interview)...
Stephen responds: Wouldn't say that - certainly there are aspects of the community which serve me more than others. They call it the "take what you want, and leave the rest" philosophy...
Mike continues: ....and yet, he's had training sessions with Mystery, Tyler, etc., training sessions which obviously indicate a real involvement (time, energy, money). He said that "being fully in the moment" was his major reason for getting involved in PU. Maybe this is true Cliff but I didn't find that very convincing. It would have been a hell of alot more convincing had he said,"I want more CHOICE in the women I sleep with and I want to make that CHOICE a hell of alot easier!" I got the feeling that he wouldn't have been comfortable admitting that---and yet, he's invested plenty of money in making THAT happen (the workshops, etc.).
Stephen responds: Being in the moment, for me, implies that I alas do have the choice...sorry that wasn't clearer, and may be simply a reflection of my own personal philosophy - which is a challenge to explain.
Mike continues: He didn't feel comfortable with "lines" and he said that guys just want to know what to say and do. Well, yes they DO want to know what to say and do. Last time I checked, what you say and do are the bottom-line to any seduction.
Stephen responds: Not really - it is about what you subcommunicate and what you represent as a man, a person. Students are given many "right" things to say, but often have a learning curve...it is more about who you "are" rather than what you say, and how...
Mike continues: I might add----what you THINK is even more important because what you THINK forms/causes everything you say and do.
Stephen responds: True - and what you feel, what belief system seems to own the flashing light, what is your attitude...myriads I would say. Good point.
Mike continues: He mentioned humour and how important it is but he didn't mention how one can easily become a "clown" in a woman's eyes if humour is overdone.
There are right ways and wrong ways to use humour. LOTS and LOTS of AFC's know that humour is important----at least on some level. Even the geekiest nerd knows (on some level) that humour is important.
Stephen responds: True - though humor and clowning are quite different. I have done loads of clowning, and having a sense of humor is quite a different talent, and skill.
Mike continues: Were it that Stephen gave some examples and some guidelines on how a MASTER uses humour!
Stephen responds: Regretfully, I am not a master...
Mike continues: Finally, live a full, balanced life? Well, that IS attractive but that is not enough in and of itself. There are TONS of guys who live interesting lives but who are not in the least adept with women! One does not equal the other! And neither does talking with everybody----everybody ain't equal Cliff. There is a hell of alot of difference between talking with the little old lady who lives down the street or your barber than say a 10 who is a dead ringer for Kim Basinger!
Stephen responds: Sorry, I thought this was clear - I was simply mentioning something which was an important factor.
Mike continues: I'll give him points for bringing up (in a indirect way) the guys (in the community) who are negative about women. He's right about that. That's why I don't even look at the ASF forum anymore. That kind of negativity will KEEP attractiveness in a man----I don't care HOW unfair a woman has been to him. Good vibes/energy may sound New Agish but there's a whole lot of truth in there. Negative vibes/energy KILLS attraction! And alot of guys in the community (on that forum) carry around with them alot of negative energy! Stephen hit that one right on the head. I would have liked to have heard how he keeps HIS vibes in optimum form though. I'm sure that like all of us he, too, gets challenged, disappointed, runs into snags, comes up short, etc..
Stephen responds: Great question - and I have experienced improvement in this. First of all, I try to keep my going out under the category of "hobby" these days - which helps. Also, I am very involved in the rest of my life, which, again, reduces the importance of getting the girl. Last, I sincerely see this as a way to grow as myself...so, the "pressure" so to speak, is not on getting the girl, but on learning about my life, and growing as a man. The "getting" aspect seems to take care of itself.
Mike continues: Now, as for you, I appreciated the follow up questions you gave Stephen. They were needed (and welcomed). Sometimes these guys seem to forget that there are readers out there who are reading each word trying to get one more valuable distinction into what works instead of their philosophy about life, etc. and why it isn't really all that important in the large scheme of things. That kind of thing falls on deaf ears Cliff for a couple of reasons. First, it sounds like a millionaire saying,"Aw, money ain't really that important." My hunch is that most of the guys on this list have decided that it is damn important to THEM!
Second, alot of them (us) don't feel the need to apologize or think too hard about wanting to screw all the HB's we can.
PROMOS & REVIEWS SECTION (there are NO paid ads in this list and never have been. The "commercial" section is distinguished by the "--------------" separators):
DAVID NEWS:
New things are happening at Be Relentless - we are working on a special project which will be totally unique. David has been doing a lot more personal consultations lately and will hopefully have his newsletter out shortly. We still need questions by email and it would be appreciated if you could ask David about any related topic that could be of interest (how to find, meet, attract, close and keep women, etc.).
Please send them to him at david@be-relentless.com. I would recommend you copy me as well (cliff@cliffslist.com) so I will make sure they get answered.
All subscribers of these emails will be given a free subscription and, as here, you can unsubscribe at any time. I know that you will find his comments and advice to be pretty unique and very useful. We are also making progress on the long awaited book which we hope will be ready relatively soon now.
The tapes of the David Seminar are now available and are being shipped upon receipt of your order, but please allow 4-6 weeks for delivery. You can visit the website at www.be-relentless.com and orders should be made through paypal (go to www.paypal.com and send money to sales@be-relentless.com) if you need some other way to make payment, inquire at info@be-relentless.com. This product comes on two DVD discs for a total of approximately 6 1/2 hours of playing time. The price is $230 USD + $20 USD for the DVD which covers shipping and handling anywhere in the world. Inquire about shipping by overnight courier. These tapes are now available in a sound only version also.
Private in person or telephone consultations with David are available. David is particularly intuitive with regard to your specific individual problems with certain women. You can get on the phone, answer his questions on the situation, and he will give you very insightful advice on how to succeed in your particular mission.
PLEASE NOTE: This David is not to be confused with David DeAngelo of www.doubleyourdating.com (who has posted some great stuff here under the name "Sisonpyh"), or David Shade (of www.davidshade.com).
Blake Richards has put out a new ebook that looks very interesting. Check it out here: www.social-mastery.com/Game.html
Real Social Dynamics WORKSHOPS:
I highly recommend that you check these guys out. They are in the final stages of producing their long-awaited e-book as well as a redesign of their website.
Anyone interested in attending their seminars and/or workshops, email Papa at papa@realsocialdynamics.com with the subject "WORKSHOP" and mention that you heard about it from Cliff's List. Also note: RSD will consider working out payment plans to make their workshop affordable - mention this to them.
Real Social Dynamics (www.realsocialdynamics.com/ ):
Learn what works in seminar, and then jump directly into the field and watch the instructors demonstrate and teach it live. Stop feeling the fear of not knowing what to do ...
Classroom Seminars
October 15-16, 2004 Melbourne, Australia
October 22-23, 2004 Sydney, Australia
November 12-13, 2004 New York, USA
December 3-4, 2004 San Francisco, USA
In-Field Workshops
October 14-16, 2004 Melbourne, Australia
October 21-23, 2004 Sydney, Australia
November 11-13, 2004 New York, USA
December 2-4, 2004 San Francisco, USA
Individualized Bootcamps
October 1-3, 2004 Los Angeles, USA
October 1-3, 2004 New York, USA
October 8-10, 2004 Los Angeles, USA
October 8-10, 2004 New York, USA
Go to www.realsocialdynamics.com/ to signup for these events on their schedule.
New Dating/Seduction Seminars & Workshop in Montreal by DOC!
Doc, who many of you know from his great interview here last time and all too rare but outstanding posts on this list, on Mystery's Lounge, and the Montreal Lair, is bringing his seminars and speed dating events to Montreal. Previously they were mainly held in Toronto as part of the Learning Annex, Doc is now setting it up here and plans to hold events on a monthly basis.
The website is www.set nalife.com. Registrations available on the website. The events are Dating Secrets for Women, a 3 Hour seminar (cost $50) and Dating Secrets for Guys; a Guide to The Art of Dating (also 3 hours and $50). There will also be a speed dating event in the evening for $50. You can contact Doc by email at seduction.school@sympatico.ca.
The fall calendar has a full weekend seminar and makeover in Toronto on October 22-24. He also has 3 new books coming out this fall under the SETNA Dating Manual Series. Volume I (to be released this week) deals with the psychology of attraction, first impressions, and working on your inner game, Volume II (coming in September) deals with tactics and strategies to go from meeting her to dating her, and Volume III will deal with Managing Relationships.
Full-weekend Dating Makeover workshops will be offered soon (including a half day with a personal stylist, video tape analysis of body language, and live practice sessions with dating coaches beautiful women who will give the guys on the spot feedback on how they come across and what to improve). If there is a group of 10 or more guys interested in a seminar (or 5 guys for a workshop, he would consider making a special trip to their city).
This is a great opportunity to learn from a real master.
Mystery Method Workshops:
What method are YOU using?
If you are opening groups (or sets: 2-sets, 3-sets, mixed sets, etc) of people with the 3 second rule by stacking indirect openers (including false opinion openers), false time constraining (discovered by Style), demonstrating a higher value to your romantic interest’s peer group with high octane DHVs while she obliquely observes (locking her into her own set with a prop), and simultaneously performing false disqualifiers (which include negs) on her with the intension of disarming her peergroup and then isolating her to rebuild her self-esteem once you have enough IOIs (indicators of interest) so you may share in a comfort and trust building effort and then build in a jealousy subplot to solidify her attraction for you, you are using The Mystery Method.
If instead you are only approaching women who are alone, you are greatly limiting your options and quite likely alienating your target's friends. Do you want a lonely woman (why is she lonely?) or a woman who already has a healthy social lfe? Truth is, healthy women have healthy relationships ... sometimes good friendships with guys. Like it or not, you will have to meet these women with men in her group.
Women of beauty are rarely found alone. Don't miss the opportunity to meet and attract them WITH social proof from her very own peergroup. Group Approach Theory (GAT - created by me) improves your options and increases the chances for attraction DRAMATICALLY over Single Approach Theory (SAT).
The guys who are GREAT in this game KNOW that they can improve their game ten-fold through seminars and personal coaching in-field workshops. Think about this: Why did so many of the greats who use my GAT (Style, Tyler D., MTL_PUA, and others) take my seminars and workshops? What started them off to greatness in this game? Can you see the co-relation may in fact be a causation?
If you have NEVER taken a seminar or workshop before, it's time to finally reconsider. They are life-transforming. I have conducted dozens of them. I am currently conducting a bootcamp and will accept only 5 people. Workshops and seminars were for many of the greats THE difference between great success and failure. If you are ready, give me a call and sign up. If you have any questions, give me a shout at 323-219-8696 (Mystery) because email sucks, or visit www.Mysterymethod.com and email me your #. We need to talk. Man to man.
Swinggcat has published a new ebook which you can check out at his website at www.realworldseduction.com. Those of you who remember his outstanding posts here will be anxious to get this as soon as possible. Highly recommended.
Ross Jeffries Speed Seduction Seminars (www.speedseduction.net/)
Advanced Speed Seduction® Seminars
Finished for 2004
Speed Life Seminars
Schedule 2004
Location Dates
Cancun, Mexico November 7 thru 13
Your Mind in Business
Finished for 2004
Major Mark (www.trucor.com) has finished his schedule for 2004.
Send mail to Cassi@trucor.com with questions or comments about his seminars.
Call to register: 419 882-8543 or go to www.trucor.com
Double Your Dating LIVE! NEW Seminar! We will be reviewing all of the new DYD products here soon, including the monthly interview series in which David DeAngelo interviews "Dating Gurus" such as (), David X, and many others.
NEW 2004 Seminar Schedule:
Saturday, October 9 th: ‘Meeting Women in Bars & Clubs.. and Other Public Places’ (New York City)
Sunday, October 10th: "Cocky Comedy’ (New York City
Tentative: Las Vegas beginning of 2005.
You can order all your DYD products and register for seminars through this link: www.doubleyourdating.com/cl
www.davidshade.com SEMINAR: Nov. 6 and 7, San Francisco
What would it be like to have everything you've ever wanted sexually with the women in your life?
The Advanced Sexual and Psychological Techniques to Drive Your Woman Wild
* Learn the aspects of bringing out the ruthlessly expressive sexual creature in your woman.
* Discover how to bring out her deepest desires, and even desires she never knew about.
* Learn the ways to mentally stimulate her to make her wildly crazy about you.
* Find out how to excite and fulfill her beyond her wildest dreams.
* Know that you can create and enjoy a relationship with a woman who is completely loyal and responsive to you.
This seminar will demonstrate to you what it means to be the personally and sensually powerful man that sexual women are longing to be with.
One of the greatest benefits of attending this seminar is that you will discover how to find a high quality woman and keep her screaming for more.
Presented by David Shade, the author of David Shade's Manual.
Special guest speakers:
Craig Eubanks - President of the San Francisco Sleep Walkers organization
will introduce you to the power of hypnosis.
Sensei and Wilder - Two highly skilled men at managing multiple women
will speak on "More Sex, Less Drama: Day Two and Beyond"
* How to build a stable of Girlfriends and keep them extremely happy.
* How to introduce women to new areas of intimacy and sexuality, including threesomes.
* How to have fun dealing with drama.
* How to enjoy your women even more.
* How to never get dumped again.
* How to build the type of girlfriend you can't wait to wake up next to.
Nov 6 and 7, 2004, San Francisco
NEW PRODUCTS FROM DAVE RIKER
Have you ever wished that Speed Seduction® was taught in a more structured way, piece by piece, subject by subject, in a way that allows you to really
understand it, really KNOW it and really USE and APPLY it even better than before?
If so, check out www.daveriker.com/ssmanual/
Riker's Seduction Log - Live Seminar
If you always wanted to hear more field reports, with full details, and even some recordings, then this seminar is for you. Dave Riker (Ross's co-trainer for those of you who don't know him) spends about 3 hours each evening going through his personal Logs and notes and provides full reports on Sarges, many from start to close (finish). And that's a full "close" by the way, not just an email address or phone number!
The seminar is held in conjunction with Ross Jeffries Speed Seduction Seminars. Ross's seminar is during the day (and Riker presents at that too) and then Riker does his seminar in the evening. And even if you do not attend Ross's seminar you can still attend Riker's.
For full details see the web page at: http://www.daveriker.com/logseminar/track/cl.htm (site is either inactive or no longer relevant)
Be sure to check out his "Reviews" page on his site. Many guys that have been in the game for a while, and attended a LOT of seminars, were just blown away by Riker's Log seminar.
Introducing 1 on 1 Badboy workshops:
Badboy is a Croatian PUA from Zagreb who has spent almost 4 years in the game. He is also a respected poster in Mystery's lounge.
To see some of his stuff, search for posts by "croBadboy" on mASF or read one of the recent issues of Cliff's list.
Workshops are 1 on 1 for 3 days.
Each day consists of a 4-hour seminar and 5 hours of active in-field work. Each night you will make 20-30 approaches with your teacher to get field experience. 1 on 1 training makes it possible to answer any questions you might have and cover the most important aspects of the game in detail. Teachings are tailored to your level in the game.
The basic structure of the workshop is:
Day 1:
Social intelligence/emotional intelligence
How to dress, peacocking vs. dressing style
Alpha-male bodylanguage secrets
Attitude (inner-game) and getting a good seductive voice
Difference between emotional and party type girls
Social dynamics in clubs (2sets/3sets/lonewolves), know your city
Openers (sets with males vs. only-girl sets)
Day 2:
Difference between PUing alone and with a wing
Different tools for getting attraction
Power of contrast (bad boy & nice guy in one)
Stealing their frames
Passing shit tests
Push-pull
Isolation tactics(2steps)
Day 3:
AMOG tactics (the AMOG handshake, group set AMOG destroyers)
Boyfriend destroyers
Passing LMR
Secrets of good sex
How to manage a good relationship
More bodylanguage secrets
How to turn Coffee dates into fuck-fest in just 1 hour
How to turn a 0$ date into a time she will never forget
Difference between PUing in different places (small towns, big cities, colleges and the difference between certain clubs and the girls who go there)
Badboy says he can write a pages of what he does with guys because it's not just PU. He opens their EYES to LIFE, to understand how to live successfully.
For more info, email Badboy at badboy@playboylifestyle.net. See Badboy's new website: www.badboylifestyle.com
Zagreb (Croatia\Europe) - October 7-8-9 - $850.00 (SOLD OUT) Instructors : Badboy, Shark, Cortez
Zagreb, Croatia - October 28-29-30 - $900.00
UK (Europe) - December 9-10-11 - $850.00 (SOLD OUT)
Melbourne (Australia) - January 20-21-22 (2005) - $995.95
Sydney (Australia) - February 10-11-12 (2005) - $995.95
Cancun, Mexico - March 10-11-12 (2005) - $995.95
Cancun, Mexico - March 24-25-26 (2005) - $995.95
Cancun, Mexico - March /April 31 - 1-2 (2005) - $995.95
Amsterdam - April 21-22-23 (2005) - $995.95
You can make a deposit ($200) for a workshop on Paypal and send money to: nightlife@playboylifestyle.net
Thundercat's New "Seduction Lair"
Get the latest News, Rumors, Tips, Tricks, & Analysis on the Pick-Up and Seduction community! The site is updated daily with lots of free and exclusive content.
Also a good way to keep up with things without having to navigate mASF. Drop By TSL today! www.seductionlair.com/
The Art of Approaching: Learn to meet ANY woman, ANY time, ANY where. The most difficult hurdle for most men to overcome is that of the initial Approach. This comprehensive eBook gives you over 35 unique Openers, as well as a step-by-step roadmap to help overcome your fear of approaching forever!
Wilder & Sensei are giving workshops also. See www.pickup101.com
Initial reports are that they are doing a spectacular job.
Sanek has a new website up at fybb.eluid.org Check it out and see his comments.
Check out the 'supermarket of seduction' at www.seductionpro.com. Lots of interesting products to look into.
Impact Interaction (www.impactinteraction.com) @ London
Angel Caido, RyobI and Lockstock have been running Workshops and Seminars in London since the beginning of the year. The workshops are small in size (trainer : student ratio of 2:1 as max), so students get personal attention on sticking points.
The workshops include:
- Basejump: For approach newbies who need to get internal game and basic attraction skills in gear
- Field Interaction: To perfect your bar/ club and street performance
- Solid Game: Everything good except lots of flakes? Few end results? End to end game sticking points covered…
For more information go to www.impactinteraction.com or contact them @ contact@impactinteraction.com.
Flirting Weekend Bristol (UK) - 23/24 October 2004
Flirting Weekend London - 4/5 December 2004
Learn how to develop immense pulling power in every aspect of your life!
"Flirting isn't just about impressing the opposite sex and picking up a partner, it's about getting on with people", says Peta Heskell, the founder of Britain's only Flirting Academy. "Great flirts do it with everyone -flirt that is!" Flirting is a way of interacting with people that makes it fun and easy to connect with them and makes them want to be with you. Become super sexy, develop your conversation power, boost your confidence, courage and self esteem and find out how to approach strangers and feel good. You may be looking for love, want to make more friends or improve the way you interact with people in general.
Flirt with life. Flirt for love. Flirt for fun. Flirt for success.
For more information about the October Flirting Weekend in Bristol, contact
LifeTalks - tel. 0117 973 1010, email info@lifetalks.co.uk or visit www.lifetalks.co.uk For more information about the December Flirting Weekend in London and other workshops with Peta, contact The Attraction Academy tel. 0700 4 354 784 or
visit www.attractionacademy.com/
Have you ever asked yourself...
* What does it take to make a woman feel totally comfortable making out with me - even if she barely knows me?
* How do I get women to WANT to sleep with me? After all, what good are all those "bedroom techniques" I learned if I don't even know how to get her back to my bedroom in the first place?
* Why do women melt around some guys, but they are totally unresponsive to me? What do they have that I don't?
Wouldn't it be nice if you knew a guaranteed way to "get physical" with any woman you go out with? Have you ever been on a date with a woman, and wondered *how* you can start "making out" with her? (by making out, I mean kissing, hugging, holding hands, etc.)
Jason King has just released a not new report that will teach you everything you need to know about getting *close* to a woman on a date.
Jason is an absolute master at making out with a woman on the first date. Whenever he goes out with a woman, he seems to put them under some kind of "love spell", and they want to make out with him more and more as the date progresses. By the end of the date, the women usually invent all kinds of excuses to invite him back to their place.
There is NO other person out there who is teaching these skills. If you've ever wanted to learn how to make out with a woman on the FIRST date... not weeks or months later... you MUST check out his site.
Step by Step Threesomes
Hey, check out Suzy Bauer's site and her e-book (we need a review, so someone get this and let us know what you think) about creating threesomes. Suzy is an attractive married bi-sexual woman who says that her e-book will show you what to do to create threesomes, how to overcome resistance and how no one can tell you how to do this better than a woman. www.stepbystepthreesome.com/
"Seduction Tips-Seduce the woman for you today"
www.pmmarketing.org/seductiontips.htm
Maximillian Hell:
I have a PU journal up on livejournal. Right now it's mostly just a record of my sarges--but comments are welcome.
www.livejournal.com/users/maximillianhell
Visit these sites (and give me your comments on their products):
http://www.sexualrapportmodeling.com/jump.php?a=2350 (site is either inactive or no longer relevant)
Gunwitch has also entered the commercial game. Go to: www.dynamicsexlife.com/
Someone needs to check this site and its products out also: www.mensniche.com (site is either inactive or no longer relevant)
Daniel:
If you are looking for a wing and you are a guy from Romania, you can check on our forums at www.seductierapida.ro/forum and you might find one.
Carlos Xuma:
Time is running short for all of us, no matter how young or old you are. Don't waste precious years learning by trial and error (and most likely not at all). Get the information on how to improve your dating life TODAY. Make the changes you need to make to get the love, sex, and relationships that you want and DESERVE to have. Download THE DATING BLACK BOOK right now at: www.datingdynamics.com/ebookstore.htm
() (@.com ):
has a system and set of Tarot Cards that he his going to be launching soon. Find out more at his website.
P.S. Try magic words 'ben' 'rap' and 'nlp'.
A few sites to check out:
Mike PilinskI is the author of "Without Embarrassment: The Social Coward's Totally Fearless Seduction System"... a unique method of meeting girls that will have you making up for wasted time spent living in shy-guy hell from the very first moment you test it out. Check it Out Here => www.highstatusmale.com/.
David Wygant (www.whatsyourexcuse.com & www.mydatingagent.com).
Check out Payton Kane www.seduceandconquer.com. VERY interesting. There will be a review of his product here shortly.
Erick Kand has a new website that showcases Hypnosis Stage Shows for fun and entertainment: www.HypnosisEvents.com
The Foundations of Seduction
Hi, you know something? When it comes to seductionhey, when it comes to ANYTHING--how you feel has a huge impact on the results you get. But the way you feel doesn’t have to be determined by your surroundings, your expectations, others’ behavior, or the tides and stars. You can guide your own feelings. By doing so, you can adjust and enhance your results. You can replace frustration with the satisfaction of tangy, blood-red, salty-sweet resolve. When you can change the way you feel, you can change what you experience… and what you encounter… and then the world stands revealed as something you yourself partially create. Sometimes, to begin claiming the victories you deserve, all you need is a simple little tool: a way of channeling your own emotions. A way of tapping your inner fire. A way of taking that inner fire, and letting it melt your external obstacles. A way of changing all that you feel, about all that you experience. Of course, you may not need or want such a tool. For some, the ability to guide and
drive one’s own emotional experience is pretty basic stuff. Some people shrug off rejection, feel wonderful almost all the time, and easily attain their goals. If that’s true for you, and you don’t think you can add to your abilitywell, you may be right. In that case, my new CD may not be for you. On the other hand, should you want a tool meant to ease the transition to seductive success… to productive success… to any kind of success, maybe this new CD can be of use to you. It’s called "Foundations of Seduction". You can get it for $29.97 plus $5 Priority Mail s/h, by going here: www.sexualkey.com/ Just enter "$34.97" into the FlexPay box and then email me at info@sexualkey.com with your shipping address and a note that you’ve ordered "Foundations of Seduction". If you’re outside the U.S., please add an additional $5 for shipping. Have fun! JD www.sexualkey.com/
LOUIS AND COPELAND'S "FREEDOM WITH WOMEN" SEMINAR DATES
Ron Louis and David Copeland have been doing several boot camp style one-on-one courses and have a seminar coming up November 12-14.
To find out more about the "Freedom with Women" seminar, go to www.howtosucceedwithwomen.com/workshops/fww5.html
or contact davidc@howtosucceedwithwomen.com
HOW TO SUCCEED WITH WOMEN Ron Louis and David Copeland have their Mastery Program Tape series available. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes. howtosucceedwithwomen.com/
1. You can receive a series of audio programs from the "Freedom With Women" seminar. This audio is not available anywhere else!
2. You'll get valuable email summations of these audio programs to "lock in" the learning and help you take action.
3. You'l get other special email lessons from the "Freedom with Women" seminar, all about finally having real freedom with the women you desire.
To get the free course, go to
www.howtosucceedwithwomen.com/workshops/free-audio.html
Advanced Macking:
In case you want a step by step guide on how to get into one-night stands, check out Anthony Berger's Advanced Macking manual. What makes it unique is that it is engineered towards making it happen the same night you meet them. To learn how to persuade women back to your pad, check out his site: www.advancedmacking.com/Discount.htm
Michael:
If you want to improve both your pick up game and your understanding of women on a deeper level, you've got to come out to my Dating Wizard Live Seminars in Toronto. It is two FULL days of non-stop IMMERSION - including a live pick-up component - giving you a whopping,eye-opening insight into how to be successful with women on a whole new level.
There are also awesome guest speakers at these seminar:
To learn more about this special seminar, go to:
And follow the "Seminars" link.
And if you haven't downloaded my eBook, "The Dating Wizard: Secrets to Success with Women", then that's the place to get started.
Inside, I explain step-by-step how to approach women, how to get instant dates, how to get physical, and how to sustain her interest if you desire a relationship. Best of all, you won't have to be a jerk to OUTDO the jerks!
Download it now at:
www.thedatingwizard.com/ And follow the link to "About The Dating Wizard"
FREE HYPNOSIS MINI-TUTORIAL
The UltimateSeduction Yahoo group, at groups.yahoo.com/group/UltimateSeduction/ is sponsoring a free one-month mini-tutorial on Conversational Hypnosis. This tutorial, presented by the hypnotist Archangel, is sectioned off into five parts:
1. Trance Words
2. Rapport
3. Persuasion Anchoring
4. Pacing, &
5. Leading
Although less than halfway through, members are reporting some highly entertaining, and some startling, success stories. The UltimateSeduction group has the advantage of having more than a few women on-list, enabling members to get some very pointed straight talk on their techniques. There is nothing to memorize - only a handful of very simple, and very effective, techniques. The group is gaining about 200 new members a week and is lightly moderated.
Anyone may join the tutorial at: groups.yahoo.com/group/UltimateSeduction/
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