There is no one else better for her
This is Cliff's Private List, a free e-mail relating to seduction. Your contributions of articles, field reports, reviews and other comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from people commenting are separated by HHHHHH with each commentator's name preceding each comment. Comments from previous emails are preceded by an ">", usually in front of that commentator's name). Feel free to forward this email to all your friends and encourage them to request a free subscription by going to http://www.cliffslist.com and click on "Subscribe." You can also unsubscribe on the site as well. If you would like to be added to the free joke list, send an email to cliff@cliffslist.com. All posts you see here have been submitted by the author, or permission granted by the author to be reposted here. All emails with comments should be sent to cliff@cliffslist.com. If you are reading this as an email, you want to go to http://www.cliffslist.com and see the entire email, which includes Lair listings (see if there is one in your city or start one if there isn't), promotional notices, seminar notices, new product and website announcements - and lots more. This email has been edited and modified to allow it to pass through the various email filters - the unedited version is on the website.
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The Cliff's List Convention DVD's are NOW available. Go to http://www.cliffslistconvention.com and get your copy. Don't miss this outstanding record of a magical event where the best in the World pulled out their "A" game and presented .
If you need support on this, send an email to help@cliffslistconvention.com.
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Papa (http://www.realsocialdynamics.com):
We haver prepared a free audio seminar for your readers. Tell them that they can get a copy by sending an email to rsd@aweber.com. They will get a link to a 2-hour Tyler seminar, where they can either listen to the audio in the browser within seconds or they can download the seminar to listen to it for later.
Cliff's Comment: Tyler & Papa and Neil Strauss ("Style") have a new product out - see http://www.survivingthegame.com/. Papa tells me this is a great product and we should have a review of it shortly.
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NEW SITES (well, new to me, at least):
http://www.playboyskool.com/ - These guys are extremely interesting. They may be contributing some articles here in the near future. Check out their site.
John Alanis http://www.womenapproachyou.com/
http://www.cultcontrol.com - These guys have a new e-book out which will be reviewed here shortly.
Lorenzo Martini of http://www.SexGodSecrets.com also has some new products out which will be reviewed here shortly.
If you have any of their products or know them, we all are interested in a review.
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Cameron (http://www.buildattraction.com):
The Definitive Direct/Indirect Article.
After all these discussions regarding Indirect vs. Direct, there still remains so much confusion.
I have seen a bunch of posts on mASF regarding what direct and indirect are. Mainly, however, I have seen lots of confusion. Furthermore, I find many guys constantly asking me for clarification as they are still unclear regarding the difference.
My goal with this new article is to explain the difference once and for all with depth and clarity so that everyone can understand and absorb the differences. So I have set
out to write what should be the mother of all direct articles.
This article will be covered in 3 sections.
A. Behavioral difference between direct and indirect
B. Belief difference between direct and indirect
C. Rejection between direct and indirect
Each section will cover that particular aspect of the distinctions.
A. Behavioral differences between direct and indirect.
Advocators of a direct approach are proponents of not hiding their intentions. Simply put, it’s acceptable that a woman knows you are interested in her.
Advocators of indirect try to slide through the backdoor. At first, they make every attempt to NOT show interest in her, then they slowly begin to transition to showing a difference.
You have to discover what is right for you, and how you want to live your life. Direct is in no way just about the opener. It’s simply regarding the masking or unveiling of your intentions.
Over a year ago, Shark popularized the phrase "I like you and I want to get to know you better." Then again, he likes to be ballsy and anything less is unacceptable to him.
With such a bold statement, there remains no doubt romantic interest is conveyed to the girl. Is it the only way? Of course not!
You can talk about anything in the world, but if you are conveying interest, you are behaving in a direct manner. I want you to think of James Bond, particularly Sean Connery’s Bond.
James Bond usually did not say the words, "I like you, and I want to get to know you better." In fact, I don’t recall him saying those words ever, but the question is: Were his intentions clear?
Abso-fucking-lutely.
There was never any doubt for even a split second what his intentions were during his conversations with women, and the women damn well knew what he was after. Most of us know that 93% of communication is nonverbal. A sly smile, a glimmer in the eye, are manifestations of direct-behavior when they convey the man’s intention.
What is the man’s intention? That he is romantically interested in the woman.
Indirect behavioral model is based on hiding your true intentions until a later time where you feel you are now worthy of divulging your intentions. It’s essence is: "Hey, look, I am not hitting on you. I am not interested in you. I just want to get an opinion from you. That’s all. For all you know, I work for the Gallop poll company and I am conducting surveys tonight." Every attempt is made to kill any sexuality so that there is no sexual pulse between you two.
That is the difference between the behavioral model of indirect vs direct. Do you hide your intentions or does the woman you are approaching clearly know you are hitting on her despite the subject matter?
Is there an absolute rule? No. There maybe instances where you can’t quite distinguish if the man next to the girl of your interest is her cousin, merely her friend or her boyfriend. You probably wouldn’t want to be overtly flirtatious when her fiancée is standing right there. The problem arises when guys write community doctrine that you must never show interest in her. For a long time, this was community doctrine, and it’s slowly starting to change.
If you read my posts from a year ago, you could see that I was just starting to experiment with this direct thing. Since then, I have had a chance to hang out with some other interesting guys in the community. Guys like Shark, Steve Piccus, Zan, and others are all guys who prefer to not hide their intentions. While I don’t know if Zan would cold-approach a woman by saying the words "I like you" immediately, I do know that when he talks to a woman, there is absolutely no misunderstanding about his intentions.
She’d never ever think, "Oh, he wants to be just friends. We are going to knit together and play bingo."
Steve Piccus operate on a whole different dynamic. He has no problems telling a girl what he seeks down to the graphic details. To him, too much time spent chatting about bullshit is just a waste of his time.
Shark assumes that he is the prince. He actually believes that it'd be a travesty for the girl to date someone else instead of him.
In the end, regardless of what any of these guys do, you have to decide how you want to behave in YOUR interactions with women. Do you want to show or hide your intentions?
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B. Belief different between direct and indirect
Direct vs. Indirect is also about the mentality and your mental frame. I have already said this numerous times but it does not hurt to occasionally repeat this statement.
You could talk about anything with the woman, but here is the difference:
The entire sequence of the transaction becomes different from the point of meeting that woman.
Now, we'll take it one step further!
What creates this huge difference?
********A Direct Mentality is you working under the assumption that you are just as good as the girl, and perhaps even above her!*********
********An indirect mentality has you working with the assumption that you are not good enough. She is above you and somehow you must prove that you are worthy. ******
There you have it gentlemen. Once and for all: There lies the difference. Simple, wasn’t it?
You can start the conversation with whatever you want. Let's say you talk about something very ordinary: A movie you just watched the day before!
Your behavior, body language, tonality, emotions, and beliefs should EXUDE that you feel you are just as good as she is. You don't have to say the words, "I am as good as you are." You just show it through non-verbal traits which account for 93% of communication I already mentioned.
Allow me to expand through examples in the following scenarios:
Scenario 1: You meet an average looking girl, (maybe 5-10 pounds overweight, but not fat!) and you feel that you are better looking than she is.
You feel that you are a very good looking man, and she is just average looking.
Do you have a problem going up to her and just talking to her in a very normal relaxed manner?
No! Most men would not! I want you to picture a good looking sharp dressed man in a club approaching a very average girl. You see him walk up to her and just introduce himself.
What do you think? You think to yourself that he has so much more value that he does not need to ask an opinion. She is in a league below him. (You probably have all this garbage about "Value" in your head, which I’ll address in a separate article.)
Next situation:
Scenario 2: You meet a very beautiful woman who is stunning!
Suddenly, you are nervous, you start making excuses as to why she may not go out with you, you start feeling the anxiety building. You "Don’t have enough Value", you are not rich enough, you are not good looking enough and thus, you do not feel you can walk up and start the conversation in the same manner as you did with the last girl.
Why? Because you feel that you are not good enough!
If you were a King or a mythical Prince riding on a white horse, you would not have this anxiety. You are the fucking prince and this beautiful woman is your birth right! She is your birth right. "There is no one else better for her," would be your line of thinking.
Are you starting to see the picture?
Many of the men giving PU advice have great pointers, but ultimately, many of them subconsciously possess the beliefs of Scenario B mentioned above.
They do not believe that the woman could like them unless they had a script with all sorts of lines written in it. They do not believe that a woman could like them unless they broke her down with one insult after another.
This is a form of insecurity, of course.
Everyone mentions the words "Do not supplicate" in the community.
For some reason, however, supplication has taken on a financial meaning. Do not buy her drinks, do not buy her gifts, do not pay for her dinner, do not give flowers, etc, etc, etc……
I present to you that constantly trying to impress someone through your words, through machine-gunning one routine at her after another, is a non-fiscal form of supplication!
You are an entertainment monkey hoping to convince her to like you through the little games you learned on an Internet chat board. Think about this.
Here is the advice: "Hey guys, do not supplicate to women, don’t even buy her a cup of coffee, don’t tell her she looks nice, BUT please learn these little routines from anonymous people on the Internet, and repeat them verbatim, repeat other people’s stories, LIVE OTHER PEOPLE’S LIVES so that she may actually like you."
You gotta be kidding me.
The counter argument is that beautiful women are approached by men all the time, and hence, they are sick of it. Like many of you, this is what I was taught when I first came to the community about 4 years ago. It was all over these ASF Boards at the time. It still is today! (It’s just that there is also an opposing voice today to give you a choice and more options.)
At that time, I bought this argument. It made sense. I was not good at cold-approaching women and this seemed to explain why my approaches were not up to par.
Like most of you, I was told, "You see that pretty girl? You cannot approach her in a normal manner. She has already been hit on by 50 men today. You’ll be the 51st man of the day. Why should she go out with you? Why should she choose you? Why?"
Yes, attractive women are approached all the time.
They are approached all the time...............BY GEEKS and insecure men!
They are not approached often by cool, relaxed, secure, confident men!
Most of the men approaching do not possess the attributes of a confident man who is comfortable in his own skin, and lives a strong reality.
Looking back at it, I think to myself about what a loser mentality this was: To think that you are just like the other 50 guys who approached her. Hey, you are just the next guy in line. What a pathetic frame that was to have. You are just like the rest of the sheep in the herd. You are no different than the 50 guys before you.
In retrospect, it’s so obvious to see the dismalness of it, but sometimes when you are in the middle of it, it’s hard to step outside and see it with an objective view.
It has taken me 4-5 years to break out of that mentality, and now, I am on a mission to bring the distinction of it to others.
You may view these women as being above you because of bad experiences in the past.
However, I want you to unequivocally know and understand that when you stop believing that these women are above you, you will have automatically transitioned to a direct belief! You will not have a choice about it. You can’t complain about it, you can’t go to the police. It will just happen, and there ain’t a damn thing you can do about it. [And that’s a good thing.]
You can call it whatever you want. Call it, "Being the Prize" belief system. The semantics are not as important as the internal belief system. It’s a belief system where you no longer feel that you have to prove yourself before you can ever show your interest in her.
When you see a woman on the street/ supermarket/ coffee shop/ bar/ restaurant/ nightclub, and you BELIEVE that she is not above you, and nor is she any better than you, you will have transformed yourself into the direct frame of mind.
When you truly believe that you are no less than her, it’s powerful. Trust me on this.
When you truly see yourself as an EQUAL, you will no longer feel the need to mask your intentions under the veil of conducting surveys.
You don’t give a rat’s ass if she thinks David Bowie is hot and neither do I.
You can approach and talk about anything in the world and communicate to her that you are a sexual being. Harness the sexual energy, don’t kill it.
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C. Rejection handling between direct and indirect.
A secondary reason for the indirect mentality being prevalent: The fragile male Ego that cannot handle rejection.
Proponents of indirect instill that if by going indirect, you cannot possibly be sexually rejected. After all, if a man asked a woman for an opinion and chatted for 5 minutes, how could she possibly be rejecting him? There cannot possibly be a sexual rejection because the man never showed any romantic interest in her. (In fact, he showed no interest on any level, whatsoever.)
This is true. If you asked her some irrelevant opinion and conducted a CNN type survey. She cannot be sexually rejecting you.
Let’s shift to direct. A man shows interest in a woman! Even if the man was talking about the movie he watched last weekend, she’d know he was interested. Believe me, she’d know. His body language, tonality, facial expressions, the look in his eye would scream it out.
Again, remember the James Bond films. While he does not say "I like you," there is never even a shadow of a doubt that he is interested in the woman. (Interest does not mean neediness by the way. That’s bullshit written by geeks. Always remember that.)
Thus, how do you deal with rejection if you are showing interest?
First, you must genuinely believe that it is not a reflection on you. What if her pet dog was run over by a car a few hours before you approached her? Maybe she just got fired from her job, or maybe she just got engaged to the man of her dreams! You cannot possibly know all this information. All you can remember is that it’s not a reflection on you. You are you and you have to be comfortable with that. You can try to "Fake it ‘til you make it" scheme, but in the end, you cannot lie to yourself. You must genuinely be comfortable enough with yourself that you do not believe it is a reflection on you.
At the end of the day, you look inside yourself and you find peace. If you stare inside yourself, and you look into an abyss, then you are in a world of hurt. This is when you must run around and get validation from drunk party chicks around closing time of the bar.
I’ll give one last analogy: Imagine if you walked up to Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, or Larry Bird and said, "I think you are a terrible basketball player. You just stink."
Would they suddenly run around and try to get validation by asking the next guy, "Hey, do you think I am good? I feel rejected as a basketball player." OR would they chuckle and just move on?
It’s the same thing here. I won’t bullshit anyone either: It’s a journey. It’s not easy to obtain such a belief system. It takes work. A few individuals have this mentality when it comes to approaching women. The rest of us have to work at it.
You live in planet of 5 billion people in 200 different countries. You live on this relatively tiny planet in a gigantic galaxy which is part of inexplicably huge universe. Whether a girl is interested in you or not at the moment has no meaning. You are not curing cancer and you are not feeding hungry children. You are talking to one person. If she is not interested in going out with you, it is not that big of a deal. On the same token, if she gives you her number, and repeatedly begs for you to call her, it still isn’t that big of a deal.
Secondly, after all I have written, if you still are concerned about rejection, then I’d point to these things you have between your legs. They are called BALLS. You are a man about it. If she is not interested, she is not interested. Who cares. Move on!
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Summary:
I am not going to indicate a right or wrong in this post. You have to decide what your ultimate goal is. You must decide how you want to live your life. Do you want to restructure your path to one where your goal is living without fear, or are you comfortable being the guy who sneaks under the radar?
Lastly, I realize that anything I write will be scrutinized, because I am a commercial coach after all. You may never take a workshop in your life from anyone, and that’s fine too. Regardless of what you decide to do, realize the paradigm you’re in, and restructure your path of self-discovery to be aligned with your ideals. Do you want a path where you are learning a skill-set of 121 steps to get a girl, or a path where you make a transformation as a person?
Does a path where you are putting a value on yourself appeal to you? I mean a path where you are not some inferior being who lives in fear, a path and paradigm shift where you continually grow so that you your ideals and beliefs are that of a person whose self-image is strong regardless of what the person next to you says.
That is the essence of direct. THAT SHOULD BE THE ESSENCE OF THE JOURNEY THROUGH THIS COMMUNITY.
For a further case study, get away from community people for a couple of weeks. Don’t just take my word for it. Do what I did: Find a few naturals who are extremely good at what they do and observe them. Don’t quiz them about it, but just watch the process. There are guys who are so good that they pretty much blow away any community guy I have ever seen, including me obviously.
Watch these guys. They can’t explain what they do, but watch their belief system and see from what frame their actions are driven.
Decide for yourself on what is the right path for you to live your life.
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A guru master:
> Hey guru master, you often say, "Gimme two days and I've got a new girlfriend". I've got a couple questions about girlfriends. What differentiates a primary and a girlfriend for you?
Guru master responds: First of all, I live in MONTREAL. The women here are gorgeous, nice, open, and free. They rock compared to other places I've been. The winter here SUCKS (it's VERY cold) but the girls are so awesome that it's worth it.
So when I say, "Gimme two days and I've got a new GF," it's because there is a lot of CHOICE. And they are often very NICE.
But when I say "girlfriend", I really just mean someone who will gladly have sex with me. But getting a PRIMARY... that's a different story.
By the way, this post might sound VERY arrogant. My reality is way beyond what most guys dream about, so I will most likely sound like a total narcissist.
So be it, lol…
Now, a PRIMARY takes time. She has to earn that title. I mean, besides just being pretty and sweet, she has to be a real "go-getter". She has to be able to walk up to groups of random people and get the whole crowd going, without my help. Like, I will just stand there while she does it…
She has to be very socially adaptive and smooth, because she has to be able to PICK UP CHICKS. Trust me, it's very challenging for women to pick up other women. All those supposed PUA's that want to tell you it's so easy... they don't know what they're talking about. It's still very TABOO in our society; even for Quebec it's taboo still. All they do is "have threesomes". It's mundane.
A "Primary" *earns* the title. It can take weeks or even months. First, you NEED to get them squirting. This is a MUST. Without the squirting pussy, they have no confidence to back anything up, so even if they are approaching it's all ego-based bullshit because they want to impress you.. EVERY GUY in the scene that is claiming threesomes -- ALL of their girls are motivated only by fear of loss. On top of that they are both tricking the 2nd women into it. They are NOT being upfront about their intentions.
Anyway, once the "Primary" is squirting at a decent level, she’ll go through magical transformations -- they cry a lot, they go through various cycles of total confidence and then total insecurity (fear that they won't be enough to keep you).
And it’s important to make no promises, EVER in ANY relationship. You can’t predict the future, so why bullshit around?
I tell them, "Even if we aren't together forever, even if this relationship doesn't work out in the long run, I want you to be free. I want it so that every guy that you date from here on in respects you and doesn't just use you as a masturbation tool or status symbol. So even if we break up, God forbid, but even so, you will be a master of relationships."
Then you need to train them to be loyal. You teach them what pickup artists do, all the tricks of the trade, then you show them how to basically become immune to it. The key, by the way, is getting them squirting and getting them over the validation seeking stuff, which is all tied in with low self esteem. It is a LOT of hard work. I'm serious! I'm talking about making them write out 6 page essays on what she did that was inappropriate and other essays on why she wants this training. Loyalty is not a value that women take very seriously in this culture.
So that part takes time. This is the training, and you need to be there for them every single day and be very patient. You are literally rebuilding her self-esteem, from the ground up. Women have VERY low self-esteem. ALL WOMEN.
Once that's taken care of (they are squirting like crazy and they know that they are ENOUGH -- they accept themselves and know how to handle their emotions easily, etc.) they will turn in to soft little cuddle bunnies that will do A_N_Y_T_H_I_N_G for you.
You have literally helped them to transform their lives. They reeaaaallllllly appreciate it, especially when they think back to all the macho boyfriends that either bored them to tears or used them as a sexual object. This is way beyond being a "PUA". It is Unconditional Love TRAINING. I call it the "GTP" or GuruTrainingProgram, lol...
And with love, patience, and a hardcore "take no pussy power crap whatsoever" attitude, you will arrive. Now every time you go out, not only do they SHINE from within, but also, they'll want to tell the world about you. Every half-decent woman that they talk to will know that they have a squirting pussy, and know that you are SquirtMaster"A". You hold the keys to bliss and fulfillment, LITERALLY. It's not an ego-trip -- it is simply THE TRUTH. And a beautiful truth at that!
A lot of "potential" women will get freaked out by this and run away. It goes against the standard marriage frame, the Barbie/Ken doll Disney Land Mentality. So you have to teach her to "play the number's game", not take it personally, etc., etc. Again, this process takes time and patience. They need a lot of love, and there is a lot to learn. It's a whole new world for them, so it's important to take it one day at a time.
...Next thing you know, you've got 2 or 3 women living with you, and the relationship is actually LESS WORK than you've ever known. They take care of everything -- they cook, they clean, they lick each other's pussies and asses, they giggle and talk talk talk talk talk... WOW... women have a lot of things to talk about!
And you just kind of...SIT THERE. You just ENJOY them. There are no arguments, no fights, no drama, no flirting with the bartender, nothing to worry about when you aren't around, NOTHING. Just pure happy little family. It's NICE!!
I have a bed, I call it the "Superbed". It is two king-size beds stuck together. It literally fills the whole room. So you'll need to have one of those. And towels. You need a lot of towels, what with all the squirting that goes on. It's nice.
Cliff's Comment: For more information on getting women squirting check out Steve P.'s site, http://www.sensualawakening.com.
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Toni McFAll aka Rev. Mojo Rising (reverendmojorising@FirstVirtualChurch.com):
Review of Mystery Video Archive 5 DVD Collection
I have always wanted to take a MM workshop, but have never been in the right place at the right time. As a result, when the Mystery Video Archive became available Oct 15th, I was quick to place an order. Ultimately everyone wants to know just one thing . . . was it worth the $294.00 price. In a word, yes.
First a word about order placement, shipping, etc. If you’re concerned about order placement and fulfillment, don’t be. I placed my order online on the 17th and had the DVDs in hand four days later.
Now on to the content. If you are like me and have had an interest in MM but have been unable to attend a workshop then you have probably read as much as you can about MM online, and maybe even picked up some information from Neil Strauss’s book The Game. If so you probably have a vague idea of what MM is all about but still have a lot of details to fill in. The DVDs do a great job of filling in the details.
After viewing the 5 DVDs I had a great understanding of the structure of MM and a good understanding of the details of each element (A1, A2, etc.) as well as why each element is necessary and how they work. It was also interesting to hear an explanation of the evolutionary theory that MM is ultimately built upon. In addition to the information itself, there was a lot to be learned about how the information is delivered and how it might be modified depending on context.
For example, before viewing the DVDs I had a pretty good idea of how to build value by story telling as a result of various online sources, but this tool has now become more useful to me after watching Mystery deliver several of his stories laced with "High-Value-Spikes". I now have an understanding of tone, pacing, and demeanor that I can apply to story telling. In addition to Mystery, Lovedrop appeared periodically on the DVDs and among other things, did an excellent job of teaching the body language used to approach a set and to communicate with the set once it was opened.
Other concepts that were covered include (but are not limited to) multi-threading conversations and routines, forward and backward merging, negging was explained in detail and expanded to "false disqualifiers", the characteristics of an alpha male and how to convey them with words and body language, peacocking, how to recognize and calibrate IOIs, and dealing with approach anxiety.
In short, with the information provided on the DVDs and some applied practice, I feel I could begin using MM much like it was intended to be use despite never having taken a work shop. Would I still take a workshop? Sure, there’s nothing like being in the field and getting feedback from the instructor.
I have been involved in the PUA game for five years now. I have read lots of books and watched lots of videos. I would consider this DVD purchase and my purchase of the original Ross Jefferies Speed Seduction tapes my two best purchases.
If you have questions feel free to email me.
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Estasi:
This routine is used for building attraction through kino and kino escalation. I used these routines a few days ago. The first is designed for use anywhere. The second one works best in a mall. The third works best at a party/social gathering. Comments and critiques are appreciated.
Routine 1:
After busting her balls or calling her on something:
Her: "Fuck you"
You: "I don't think you could handle that."
Her: "How would you know?"
You: "It's in your eyes. You're too much of a nice girl. I want a bad girl."
Her: "But I am bad."
You: "Well, you're not bad enough."
Her: "How bad do I have to be?"
You: "You're just like my little sister. The only difference is that she actually bathes."
Her: *Shocked look, hits you
You: "Allright, little girl, stop. When you were begging for my sex it was enough, but you're getting a little too aggressive for me. One more of those little love taps of yours and I'll have to put you in your place."
...of course she'll hit you again.
You: *Turn her around and spank her.
Her: *Shocked face
You: "There's plenty more where that came from."
Routine 2:
After busting her balls or calling her on something:
Her: "You're such a jerk" (Laughing/smiling)
You: "Aww... poor little baby can't handle the heat. Get over yourself, you've been a little brat since you were five and didn't get your way. (Credit to DD for this line)"
Her: *Hits you
You: *Shakes head, sighs. "I knew it..."
Her: "Knew what?"
You: "You're crazy." *Walk away
She's going to chase you and pull you around at this point. When she does:
You: "SECURITY"
Her: "Oh shut up. You're such a jerk."
You: "Nice try, dear. You already used that one last time. I thought you were creative."
Her: "But I AM creative."
You: "Prove it."
Her: "How?"
You: *Lead into a thumbwar routine. Tool her. Afterwards, walk away again. She'll follow you and try to turn you around once again.
Her: "What are you doing/Hey, come back."
You: "What do YOU want?"
Her: "To talk to you, you're interesting."
You: "You _________ (blondes/women/kids/fruitcakes... go nuts, have fun) are all the same. You just want to use me for my sex. Perverts"
Her: *Hits you again.
You: Allright, that's enough little girl. *Spank her
Her: *Gaping mouth ; ) , shocked look
You: "Yeah. You better keep that mouth closed, or I'll shut it for you."
Routine 3:
After a bit of fluff talk, kino.
You: "You're such a bad girl. I can tell."
Her: "How can you tell?"
You: "I saw you over there. You spiked the punch."
Her: "No way, you're crazy."
You: "That's it. Not only are YOU crazy, but you lie too." Turn away.
Her: *Tries to pull you back
You: "Excuse me, but I don't talk to liars."
Her: "I didn't lie."
You: "Yes you did. This is your second lie of the night."
Her: "What, how so."
You: "The first one was when you lied about the punch, the second one was 3 seconds ago."
Her: *Shocked look, hits you
You: Fill in the blank, you can use any combo from here.
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PROMOS & REVIEWS SECTION (there are NO paid ads in this list and never have been. The "commercial" section is distinguished by the "--------------" separators):
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LAIR SECTION (Lairs are gatherings of PUA's of differing levels and talents that meet in different cities to discuss their experiences and to work together to improve their success with women). More Lair Listings can be found at http://dutchseduction.blogspot.com/ and at http://www.bristollair.com, as well as at http://www.seductionlair.com:
A YAHOO GROUP FOR THOSE RUNNING LAIRS:
If and ONLY if you are running a lair there is now a Yahoo Group for organization ideas for PUA groups. As each lair is different, this group lets us know what other lairs are doing. No seduction related topics are discussed, just organization ideas. To join please email RunningaPUAgroup-subscribe@yahoogroups.com and then email Nightlife at nightlife858@yahoo.com with an intro of who you are and what Lair you are running. You can also go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/RunningaPUAgroup/
HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE MONTREAL LAIR:
- Sunday November 6 at 8 pm is the next Lair meeting. For more info on joining the Lair (local only, sorry), email me. Out of town bros are welcome to drop in to meetings.
The Lair meetings are very insightful gatherings of guys interested in learning, improving, and helping others to become more successful in their relationships with women. If you are already in a relationship, and you continue to read these emails, you should realize that there is information here to improve and enhance your existing relationship - not only to create new ones.
Here is a list of other Lairs around the world (if you know of any others, please let me know):
MONTREAL JUNIOR LAIR FOUNDED!
Montreal Junior Lair: The Montreal X-Lair has been founded to help minors (who are not permitted to join the Montreal Lair until they are 18) get together and communicate. Lair applications would be sent to MontrealXLair@hotmail.com.
THE TORONTO LAIR
The Greater Toronto Area Lair Goes by the acronym for TOronto PUAS (TOPS) and has been going from success to success lately. There have been great talks by local PUAs who are regulars on Clifford's list, great outings, and membership continues to grow.
TOPs is open to men (and women) at all levels from Beginner to PickUp Artist. Just come with a desire to learn, a willingness to share what you know - and a commitment to test what you learn in the real world.
To join the Lair, send a request to: TO_Lair-owner@yahoogroups.com
If you have questions, you can contact the TOPS President, Smooth (cdnglenn@yahoo.ca) or TOPS Webmaster, Pluvio (pluvio69@yahoo.com)
DUNEDIN, NEW ZEALAND LAIR FORMING
For all you Otago students (or campus orbiters) who think you got game! This will be the southernmost lair in the world. Run by an RAFC with a fair bit of bookwork and small experience- any skill level you want, just prepared to approach, talk and try out new stuff. Email me at beest.goes.roar@gmail.com, and will see if we can't get a local lair started. it's time to bring the game to the deep south!
WELLINGTON, NEW ZEALAND LAIR:
A new lair is starting up in Wellington, NZ. Primary focus will be regularly going out and working in the field. Anybody who wants to join constructive, like-minded people in persuingthe PUA lifestyle; email Matt on moxyfmac@gmail.com
TAMPA BAY AND ST. PETE, FLORIDA:
We started a new Lair in the Tampa Bay area. All styles welcome. e-mail us at paradigmaman@yahoo.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN GENEVA
We want to create a Lair in Geneva, Switzerland. It would be open to French and English speaking people living in Geneva and neighbouring cities like Lausanne and France as well willing to meet and seduce women. All skill levels and ages are accepted. The main task of the Lair will be field experiences on a regular basis. Contact Julien at : Julien72@bluewin.ch
NEW GROUP FOR CHICAGO
Chicago Wingman Meetup Group which currently holds meetings on the first Saturday of every month at 3:00 pm, the place will be disclosed to members once they sign up for the group. The website address is http://wingman.meetup.com/18/ - this group is combining with the Chicago Lair, whose contact was Eric at theprogen2003@yahoo.com Since they've just starting to hold meetings, they have a flexible format but as they get more organized they plan to have guest speakers. Anyone who knows a local PUA (not self proclaimed) is encouraged to invite him/ her over to share ideas. Please post all org issues under http://www.fastseduction.com/cities/Chicago
NEW LAIR FOR EDMONTON
*The Mastermind* The Mastermind is a highly exclusive Pick Up Artist Lair. Based out of Edmonton, Canada we assist guys who are serious and motivated to improve their Pick Up Artist game. We’re located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/edpualair/ You can also email: manofadventure@jasons-world.com
SAN RAFAEL, CALIFORNIA
The Seduction Lair is up and running in San Rafael, California. Contact activte@aol.com for more information.
PARIS PICK UP CLUB
Formed by a group of FRIENDLY motivated guys from all nationalities with some solid game. The Paris Pick Up Club (PPC) is where all the PUA's and RAFC's BROTHERS living in Paris can share experiences, wing with different people and practice techniques. The goal is to IMPROVE our GAME while having lots of FUN. Since the purpose of the PPC is to practice, in order to join, future members must be available to SARGE regularly. Contact alfaztec@yahoo.com
SALT LAKE AREA SEDUCTION LAIR
We are an expanding group of guys that are into the material by David DeAngelo and his Dating Gurus, of DYD. And we want to use this group to get/give advice, to share experiences and the results. And to meet up with other guys, so we can go out and work on our game together. A group that is more than just pick up lines, but wants to challenge their inner/outter game, etc... For info, contact LOVEStobeHATED@aol.com
BELGIUM: NL Lounge at http://dutchseduction.com/"> DutchSeduction.com
An independent platform for the phenomenon known as "seduction" in the Dutch language with members in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, Belgium and points beyond. Founded in 1999, we are one of the first international groups dedicated to seduction. Our purpose is to help members meet one another and share information and experience. Write to passie at passie@gmail.com Visit our Website: http://www.dutchseduction.com/"> http://www.DutchSeduction.com
NETHERLANDS: NL Lounge at http://dutchseduction.com/"> DutchSeduction.com An independent platform for the phenomenon known as "seduction" in the Dutch language with members in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, Belgium and points beyond. Founded in 1999, we are one of the first international groups dedicated to seduction. Our purpose is to help members meet one another and share information and experience. Write to passie at passie@gmail.com Visit our Website: http://www.dutchseduction.com/"> http://www.DutchSeduction.com
NEW LAIR IN NEW ORLEANS
There is a new Lair in New Orleans and here is the info:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NewOrleansPlayers/ - MIKEALW@HOTMAIL.COM.
Description: This group is for guys in the New Orleans area who are studying the Double your Dating material by David DeAngelo. This group is to get and give advice, to share your experiences and results, and to hook up with other guys so you can go out and work on your game together. Anyone in the New Orleans area is welcome from inexperienced to PUA's.
NEW LAIR IN SINGAPORE
The Singapore Lair is a community for guys interested in improving their skills in meeting and attracting/seducing women. This group is mainly for guys who live in or travel to Singapore, although PUAs from other countries are also welcome. Membership is restricted to doers only -- you must be in the field and have real field experience. No armchair theorists allowed. To join this group, email singaporelair-owner@yahoogroups.com with your name, background and experience.
NEW DALLAS LAIR FORMED
Dimitry has started the Dallas Wingman Meetup Group, a Dallas-Metro Seduction Lair
Website: http://wingman.meetup.com/6/
HUNGARIAN LAIR FORMING
Hungarian Lair (Budapest) invites all visiting and local people for a great time of sarging in Budapest clubs and streets. We field test MM, SS, RSD, Maniac Plan and various other stuff. Contact us at redpriest@freemail.hu!"
NEW LAIR FORMING IN ITALY:
Our goal is to have a lot of FUN! Why did we create a Lair? To keep in touch with each other and to rock the Italian scene, we want to live like rockstars since we know we DESERVE IT. We have had enough of all the boring guys and loser boyfriends out there that are making women's lives a nightmare when they are waiting for US, the playboys. Join us and we will share with you a lot of secrets that you need to know to totally transform your life life and get more choice not only in life but with every relationship. In order to learn you must be willing to go out with us and try new stuff asking to yourself: "What is possible? What if I get the results I only dreamed of and then even more than that?" Send an email at italy_lair@yahoo.com to join.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN NORWICH (UK):
The Norwich lair has been setup for RAFC and PUAs from East Anglia (UK) who wish to go sarging in in Norwich City Centre. The group is open to everyone who is serious about fieldwork in the Norwich area, and membership is free of charge. Norwich is about 2 hours from London by train. To join the listsend an email to norwichlair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.
OHIO LAIR FORMED:
An Ohio Lair has just been created for ASFers located in Ohio. I'm hoping to have regular sarging meetings at different cities in Ohio and regular guest speakers. Any ASFer in Ohio who is interested in joining please email me an intro of yourself to philonous03@yahoo.com.
VIRGINIA/CAROLINA LAIR GROUP
The VAC (Virginia Carolina) Lair is a community for Virginia and Carolina area PUAs to talk about the game, make friends in the community, and meet up with wings in the area. Current members are located in the Charlotte, Blacksburg/Radford, and Raleigh/Chapel Hill areas. While those from outside this area are encouraged to participate, most events will likely be held within these areas. The VAC Lair is open to all levels from Beginner to PickUp Artist (PUA). Just come with a desire to learn, a willingness to share what you know, and a commitment to field test what you learn. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vaclair/
SECOND NEW YORK LAIR STARTED:
With the help of a few friends, Strongbad has started a lair in NYC. They have 16 members within the last 2 weeks. Send an email to either strongbadpua@yahoo.com or
NY-PLAY-subscribe@yahoogroups.com to join if you live in the NY area.
BLOOMINGTON LAIR STARTED:
The Bloomington, IN lair for guys interested in attraction/seduction. This is a group made for guys that want to discuss techniques, inner game, make
new friends, and meet up with wings in the Bloomington area. If your interested in subscribing email: b-lair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
AUCKLAND, NEW ZEALAND LAIR
Anyone living in Auckland (New Zealand) are welcome to join this bad ass lair. It's consantly growing, we have guys with all sorts of experience levels with diverse styles of game. We SARGE regularly. So if you're up for some fun e-mail us at akpuah@gmail.com"
SCOTLAND LAIR:
There is now a Scotland Lair. It's the SSs Group and we have a website at http://www.scotlandlair.com/"> http://www.scotlandlair.com that we JUST put up. The group is currently yahoo based and we would like to start taking in any members who may or may not have heard about us yet. To join, they can visit SSs.scotlandlair.com which will redirect them to our mailing list, or email signup@scotlandlair.com for more instructions on joining. The website is starting to grow big as it's seen on ASF. We have our own discussion forums. We also have a photo and VIDEO gallery where PUAs can upload their own photos and videos and browse those of others!! We are also giving out free scotlandlair.com email addresses to contributors.
BRAZIL NOW HAS A LAIR:
To join please send an email to Brazil_P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN TOKYO:
Any Tokyo guys looking to join a Lair in Tokyo should email Vlad at tokyolair@hotmail.com.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN ARIZONA:
We have formed a lair for guys interested in pickup and seduction in Arizona. It is open to anyone in the state, regardless of specific city, or skill level. If you are interested in joining, send an email to cramias@mail.com and you will receive an invite to our private forums.
ANNOUNCING SOUTH FLORIDA P-L-A-Y LIST:
The South Florida P-L-A-Y list is a community for Miami, Ft Lauderdale and Boca-Palm Beach area PUA's to meet up and improve their game in the field.
All methods are welcome. Please understand that our primary focus will be field work. To join, please contact Zuzu atSouthFlorida-P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
THE INDIA LAIR
We are a small but dynamic bunch of aspiring PUAs in India. Guys of all skill levels are welcome but MUST be serious about actually getting out in the field. Please register at the site. New registrants will be verified to weed out KJs. Visit http://www.indialair.com/"> http://www.indialair.com
BRISTOL LAIR
These guys have a truly great site, with a lot of terrific resources. Go to http://www.bristollair.com.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN DALLAS/FORT WORTH:
If you are interested in joining, please send an e-mail to dfwseductionlair@yahoo.com.
NEW LAIR IN GERMANY!
The name of the group is PU_Meetings_Germany. It´s a field oriented group and we welcome everybody from all over Germany to join and attend our meetings which are held in different cities all over Germany. For further information write to: pimpstylez@hotmail.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA:
A new lair called the O.C. Player's Group is forming for members of the seduction community in Orange County, California. The group will be a place for everyone from aspiring to accomplished PUAs in "the OC" to post their pick up experiences and successes and meet occasionally in a constructive and non-critical environment. Everyone is welcome, but you must be serious about becoming a PUA and the emphasis will be on getting out into the field and reporting on what worked and what didn't. Armchair pua/theorists need not apply! Contact pua1day (Kurt) for further information at o.c.playasgroup@sbcglobal.net or to join at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocplayasgroup/
NEW LAIR FORMING IN HARRISBURG, PA:
No keyboard Junkies, only people who are willing to go out in the field and just get better at the game. All levels are welcome. Contact Gaurang at
NEW SYDNEY LAIR STARTED!!!
Monthly meetings with guest speakers. All levels welcomed only prerequisite is that you are in the field. To join please email ta_justin@hotmail.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN OKLAHOMA CITY:
Lu is looking to start a lair in Oklahoma City, OK. He would like to invite anyone who's interested in going out sarging to join, & help him get the lair started, please respond only if you are interested in Going Out & SARGE, or Doing Field Work, contact him at ljp97001@yahoo.com.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN PHILADELPHIA
Looking for a group of guys interested in a Lair in the Philly area. All experience levels welcome but must be willing to actually go into the field. See philadelphiaLair@yahoogroups.com or email me at myaroch@yahoo.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN AUCKLAND, NEW ZEALAND:
We have already met-up with couple of local guys and SARGE 2-3 times a week. We are willing to meet-up with more guys to share the PU knowledge and experience to improve our game. Those of you who are interested contact us at sexualpredator@em-wave.com"
KANSAS CITY LAIR FORMING:
Looking to get a group of like minded guys together to share ideas and most importantly work the field in Kansas City MO. Write eclypz@hotmail.com and include "From Cliff's List" in the title.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN CONNECTICUT:
Open to PUAs and RAFCs who live in CT who are interested in or have real field experience as opposed to keyboard theory. Send an email to djsemtp00@aol.com with your background and experience.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN OTTAWA:
Ottawa Lair yahoo group created http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ottawalair/
NEW LAIR FORMED IN BOSTON:
The Boston Lair is now open. The lair is a forum for brothers in the Boston, Rhode Island, and upper New England area to get together and meet others in the game and to build an active community in Boston and the surrounding areas. To subscribe to the Lair, email b-o-s-lair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN NORTH CAROLINA:
A group is interested in forming a lair in the North Carolina area. Members include attendees of the Charlotte Sargeathon in November 2003. Meetings may rotate through different cities (possibly outside North Carolina) depending on interest. Contact Jason at thee_jacas@yahoo.com with LAIR in the subject line for more information.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN POLAND:
We've formed a LAIR in Poland http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pflayers/join so if anybody is interested in joining it contact me at PFLayers-owner@yahoogroups.com or subscribe at PFLayers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. It's unmoderated formum where You can excange your views on the game and meet with wings in your area.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN LAS VEGAS:
Nightlife who runs San Diego is helping a few guys set something up in Vegas so a new group is now forming. To join please send an email LV-P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com be prepared to give a brief intro.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN ITALY:
Milano will be headquarters. All Italians, Swiss, Austrians, etc are welcome to join. Would like to set up infrastructure for weekly or biweekly weekend sargefests, both day and night. Goals include: hosting seminars/workshops of the world's best PUAs, sharing the best techniques for Italian hotbabes, sarging together, sarging trips to Roma, Firenze, etc. We need to get a solid core of about 10 guys to really get it going. All levels welcome. Email italypua@yahoo.com for info.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN ATLANTA:
I am interested in forming an Atlanta Lair. If interested, please send an e-mail to jospades54321@yahoo.com
NEW LAIR FORMING MILWAUKEE TO MADISON:
A Lair is start for the Milwaukee to Madison, Wisconsin area. Emphasis will be on field sarging and developing a network of like-minded "wings" to develop and maintain a secret society in this area. We will SARGE from the college bars of Madison to the redneck fishermen bars of Lake Country to the cheesy working class discos of Milwaukee. All interested parties (male or female) please contact g66@outgun.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN MONTERREY, MEXICO:
The style I use is C&F from DYD, but am willing to try other styles, and will be very focused in going out and learning. Anyone interested in forming a Lair here in Mexico just write to me: javimartinez50@hotmail.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN HONOLULU, HAWAII:
Showing those surfergirls a good time since late '03. Drop an e-mail to lair808@hotmail.com for more info on building sandcastles.
NEW LAIR IN CHINA (MAINLAND, TAIWAN, HK):
A list for China based PUA has been set-up. Discuss PU tactics/experiences in China, and meet and practice with other local PUA. Contact Angel Caido on el_angel_caido@lycos.com and join the group @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PUA-china/join
NEW LAIR FORMING IN OSLO:
The Oslo Lair just opened. If you are interested / want to join, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/asf-Oslo/ and apply. We will start out with monthly meetings, on the first Sunday of every month. The first meeting will be held December 7th, at 18h00.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN LOS ANGELES:
The LA List, PLAY (Player's Los Angeles Yahoo) Group, is a community for Los Angeles area PUAs to talk about the game, make friends in the community, and meet up with wings in the LA area. The PLAY List is a community that is open to the public and is a place where you can share your views on any methods in an unmoderated (except for deletion of spam) forum. Contact Papa at papa@realsocialdynamics.com and get on the mailing list by emailing p-l-a-y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.
WASHINGTON, D.C.:
DC Seduction, formerly known as DC Area PUAs, has been around since 2000. We are over three dozen brothers drawn from the FastSeduction, SS, and the Lounge communities. Contact Minger at minger@dcseduction.com
SEATTLE LAIR FORMING!
I would like to find out how many are interested in forming a Seattle Lair. Contact theloinking1@hotmail.com to get on their mailing list.
THE AUSTIN SOCIETY (AUSTIN, TEXAS)
The Austin Society is a group of friends, within the greater Austin/San Antonio area, improving their attraction and relationship skills through field work and study. If you are interested in joining and contributing to our group, email us at theaustinsociety@yahoogroups.com for more info. Open-minded gentlemen of all skill levels are welcome."
NEW ORLEANS LAIR FORMING:
Joseph is looking to set up or find a "mastermind group" of likeminded people and he is in the south MS area about 1.5 hours drive from New Orleans or the MS gulf coast. He would like to invite anyone in MS/LA/AL within driving distance to participate, and to help him to get it started. Contact him at: veuxdeux@yahoo.com
NYC:
Contact Marco, marcorulesinfinity@yahoo.com and get on their mailing list: NYCTSF-SUBSCRIBE@YAHOOGROUPS.COM
SAN DIEGO (TWO GROUPS NOW!):
1) The San Diego lair is now opening their doors to potential new members for the next 30 days. If interested in joining the San Diego lair please contact Nightlife at nightlife@playboylifestyle.net
2) Pete M., and Nightlife have formed another seduction group in San Diego. This is to benefit guys who are interested in Pick Up who live or frequent San Diego. It is a group that is modeled after the LA P-L-A-Y list. To join send an email to SD-P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com It is open to everyone in San Diego.
SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA LAIR:
We have a very active group in the San Francisco area dedicated to improving their game. All skill levels and types of game welcome. We have meetings once every 6 weeks or so, and numerous SARGE outings. We also have top PUA's share their knowledge with us when they come to San Francisco. Our list traffic is low but valuable. Lots of field reports and feedback. To join send an email to sf_morpheus_x@yahoo.com, and mention you heard about us on Cliff's list.
TOLEDO, OHIO - METRO DETROIT:
I am interested in starting a Lair in the Toledo, Ohio - Metro Detroit Area; Those interested should email Jay at TSAFriend@hotmail.com
HOUSTON:
http://www.houstonlair.com Members of the Lair meet regularly, actively apply and improve their skills and are eager to teach success. Contact: xmlenigma, bashev can be reached at xmlenigma@yahoo.com, rnkayab@hotmail.com
MELBOURNE, AUSTRALIA:
The Melbourne Lair is now fully operational. Currently we are meeting once a month, with members hooking up to go sarging between meetings. All styles, ages, and abilities are welcome. To join us contact Craig at cnoodles@bigpond.com.au
Melbourne Lair: The place, an open shopping center in the heart of the city. I sit down at the food court and wait for familiar faces to arrive. I picked the location of this months meeting of the Melbourne Lair, Its great to have it in an informal place like a food court, sets a nice relaxing mood. Once everybody arrives we push some tables together and start the meeting. We discuss peoples sticking points and offer suggestions, we tell stories of crash and burns and success stories. We just shoot the sh*t, it f*cking great to meet up with like minded people. While telling someone my smurf routine, I see two guys get up from the table and start walking away, I glance back later to see them sitting with a girl, these guys are approach machines.
The meeting goes on way too f*cking long, everybody's got a story to tell, advice to offer, we could talk to each other for days. I feel like this is Ocean's 11 and we are planning the big heist. There is the leader, he started the group. The guru, he's an encyclopedia of info. There is the joker, he can't stop negging and teasing everyone; f*cking Canadians. There's the approach machines, they can't follow the conversation because they are too busy following the nearest piece of ass. There is the SSer, the grease boy and of course Brad Pitt. We all exchange numbers before leaving and make plans for sarging during the week. If there is a Lair in your area, join it, if there isn't, start one of your own. You will not regret it.
AUCKLAND, NEW ZEALAND
Philip has started a LAIR for those who live in the upper North Island of New Zealand (Auckland, Hamilton, Tauranga, etc). There are already 4 of them who have been meeting regularly in Auckland, and they welcome others to be in touch. SSer's from elsewhere in New Zealand are also welcome to email to share experiences and form a network. Contact: philip@toeb.co.nz
MIAMI:
Contact Jerry at trudelle@email.com to attend.
LONDON, ENGLAND
The London Seduction Society http://www.thelss.com
AMSTERDAM:
Contact Big Bear http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nllounge/
The main purpose of the Lair is to help Wingmen to get in touch with each other and "in field" action! Membership open to anyone who lives in Holland or Belgium, or is a frequent visitor. However membership policy is strict.
PERTH, AUSTRALIA:
The Perth lair is a small group of people who SARGE regularly several times a week. At the moment, I'm actively looking for new members to join us on our outings (the more the merrier!). Anyone wishing to go sarging with us any day of the week should email me at tnejad@hotmail.com to meet up.
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Blake Richards has put out a new ebook that looks very interesting. Check it out here: http://www.social-mastery.com/Game.html
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Real Social Dynamics WORKSHOPS:
I highly recommend that you check these guys out. They are in the final stages of producing their long-awaited e-book as well as a redesign of their website.
Anyone interested in attending their seminars and/or workshops, email Papa at papa@realsocialdynamics.com with the subject "WORKSHOP" and mention that you heard about it from Cliff's List.
Real Social Dynamics (http://www.realsocialdynamics.com/ ):
Learn what works in seminar, and then jump directly into the field and watch the instructors demonstrate and teach it live. Stop feeling the fear of not knowing what to do ...
Individualized Bootcamps
Sign up and get more info here: http://www.realsocialdynamics.com/):
More info also available by sending an email to: support@relsocialdynamics.com
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The Venusian Art Society is dedicated to the pursuit of Relationship Mastery.
We have started a Yahoo group in each city our members are located in Denver,Houston, and Atlanta. You can register for membership by going to Yahoo and joining V_A_S_D or V_A_S_A or V_A_S_H. Be sure to include your experience in the Venusian Arts as well as what you hope to get out of them.
This forum will serve as a way to discuss any and all issues related to the Venusian Arts, from cold approach to relationship management. We welcome all active participants in the Venusian arts from any of the various schools such as MM, SS, DYD, etc..
This will be a controlled forum so feel free to post anything you want as long as it is directly relatable to the Venusian Arts. This is not a classified board or a place to advertise.
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New Dating/Seduction Seminars & Workshop in Montreal by DOC!
Doc, who many of you know from his great interview here last time and all too rare but outstanding posts on this list, on Mystery's Lounge, and the Montreal Lair, is bringing his seminars and speed dating events to Montreal. Previously they were mainly held in Toronto as part of the Learning Annex, Doc is now setting it up here and plans to hold events on a monthly basis.
The website is http://www.lifeskillsnetwork.ca. Registrations available on the website. The events are Dating Secrets for Women, a 3 Hour seminar (cost $50) and Dating Secrets for Guys; a Guide to The Art of Dating (also 3 hours and $50). There will also be a speed dating event in the evening for $50. You can contact Doc by email at seduction.school@sympatico.ca.
The fall calendar has a full weekend seminar and makeover. He also has 3 new books coming out this fall under the SETNA Dating Manual Series. Volume I (to be released this week) deals with the psychology of attraction, first impressions, and working on your inner game, Volume II (coming in September) deals with tactics and strategies to go from meeting her to dating her, and Volume III will deal with Managing Relationships.
Full-weekend Dating Makeover workshops will be offered soon (including a half day with a personal stylist, video tape analysis of body language, and live practice sessions with dating coaches beautiful women who will give the guys on the spot feedback on how they come across and what to improve). If there is a group of 10 or more guys interested in a seminar (or 5 guys for a workshop, he would consider making a special trip to their city).
This is a great opportunity to learn from a real master.
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Mystery Method Workshops:
What method are YOU using?
If you are opening groups (or sets: 2-sets, 3-sets, mixed sets, etc) of people with the 3 second rule by stacking indirect openers (including false opinion openers), false time constraining (discovered by Style), demonstrating a higher value to your romantic interest’s peer group with high octane DHVs while she obliquely observes (locking her into her own set with a prop), and simultaneously performing false disqualifiers (which include negs) on her with the intension of disarming her peergroup and then isolating her to rebuild her self-esteem once you have enough IOIs (indicators of interest) so you may share in a comfort and trust building effort and then build in a jealousy subplot to solidify her attraction for you, you are using The Mystery Method.
If instead you are only approaching women who are alone, you are greatly limiting your options and quite likely alienating your target's friends. Do you want a lonely woman (why is she lonely?) or a woman who already has a healthy social lfe? Truth is, healthy women have healthy relationships ... sometimes good friendships with guys. Like it or not, you will have to meet these women with men in her group.
Women of beauty are rarely found alone. Don't miss the opportunity to meet and attract them WITH social proof from her very own peergroup. Group Approach Theory (GAT - created by me) improves your options and increases the chances for attraction DRAMATICALLY over Single Approach Theory (SAT).
The guys who are GREAT in this game KNOW that they can improve their game ten-fold through seminars and personal coaching in-field workshops. Think about this: Why did so many of the greats who use my GAT (Style, Tyler D., MTL_PUA, and others) take my seminars and workshops? What started them off to greatness in this game? Can you see the co-relation may in fact be a causation?
If you have NEVER taken a seminar or workshop before, it's time to finally reconsider. They are life-transforming. I have conducted dozens of them. I am currently conducting a bootcamp and will accept only 5 people. Workshops and seminars were for many of the greats THE difference between great success and failure. If you are ready, give me a call and sign up. If you have any questions, give me a shout at 323-219-8696 (Mystery) because email sucks, or visit http://www.mysterymethod.com/"> http://www.Mysterymethod.com and email me your #. We need to talk. Man to man.
NEW: Attraction Magic
Content: In the Attraction Magic Seminar, Mystery will teach you the magical illusions most useful in picking up women. In addition to rune casting and sleight of hand, he will teach you to vanish coins, rings, jewelry and other small objects. You will also be taught how to move objects without touching them and how to "read" minds. As I'm sure you can imagine, magic is a superb DHV. Captivating and impressing an entire group of people goes a long way in raising your social value in the eyes of women. If there is one thing that Mystery knows more about than women, it is magic.
http://www.mysterymethod.com/schedule.htm
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Swinggcat has published a new ebook which you can check out at his website at http://www.realworldseduction.com. Those of you who remember his outstanding posts here will be anxious to get this as soon as possible. Highly recommended.
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Ross Jeffries Speed Seduction Seminars (http://www.speedseduction.net/)
Advanced Speed Seduction® Seminars - All Seminars Updated!
Speed Life Seminars
Schedule 2005
Location Dates
Puerto Vallarta, Mexico (Location - Tentative) November 6 thru 12 Sign Up Online!
Magick / Psychic Influence Seminars
Schedule 2005 - Finished for this year.
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Major Mark (http://www.trucor.com):
Send mail to Cassi@trucor.com with questions or comments about his seminars.
Call to register: 419 882-8543 or go to http://www.trucor.com
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Double Your Dating LIVE! NEW Seminar! We will be reviewing all of the new DYD products here soon, including the monthly interview series in which David DeAngelo interviews "Dating Gurus".
You can order all your DYD products and register for seminars through this link: http://www.doubleyourdating.com/cl
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Threesomes! The Secrets To Making Your Fantasy A Reality
A home study course by David Shade http://www.masterful-lover.com/3somes.html
If you are like most men, you have had a fantasy about a threesome with 2 hot bi-sexual women. Everything you could possibly need to know about how to have threesomes is in this special information packed course.
The FIRST And ONLY, step-by-step guide written for men, featuring Pickup Artists and couples who are actually having threesomes all the time.
I GUARANTEE you that you've NEVER been exposed to, or had real Threesomes explained to you in the way I've done it here in this course!
It doesn't matter if you are in a relationship currently or not, every situation is covered here...
- The 3 scenarios to make a threesome happen (pick the one that works BEST for you)
- How to have threesomes as part of a committed relationship (and have it bring you closer together)
- The real truth about women and bisexuality (This will SURPRISE you)
- Proven methods to deal with your woman if she is on the fence about having a threesome. (You will have her begging you to make it happen)
- 4 vital things you MUST know about bisexual women (if you want to be successful having threesomes)
- How you can tell if a women is bi-sexual or not. (It's not what you think)
- The single biggest obstacle most women have to doing a threesome with their man. (when you can deal with this, the rest is easy)
- The foolproof way to bring up the subject of threesomes when you
have been with a woman for a long time. (This one is so powerful I almost didn't release it)
- The one thing you can say that shows a bisexual woman you are NOT like all the other guys (Do this and they might even fall in LOVE with you)
- Also, actual field reports of David & his girlfriend picking up bisexual women
- And much, much more...
The bottom line is that by learning how to have threesomes... YOU can live life fully and enjoy being a sensual person through expression of healthy sexuality in a mutually beneficial way.
Free samples of the course video online, check it out athttp://www.masterful-lover.com/3somes.html
The classic 'David Shade Manual' goes online
You've done all the hard work, found the HB, attracted her, managed to get her back to your place, now you need to skills in the bedroom if
you want to keep the attraction going. Being able to give her the sexual experience of her life is the final tool in the seducer's
toolkit, so make sure you make the most of this opportunity. David Shade, as you are no doubt aware, is well known in the seduction
community as the master of bedmanship skills.
His masterpiece the 'David Shade Masterful Lover Manual' is now available for the first time online at http://www.alphalover.com/cmd.php?ad=145730"> http://www.alphalover.com . Highly
recommended, it is possibly the only book on the subject you will ever need. Compulsory reading.
http://www.alphalover.com/cmd.php?ad=145730"> http://www.alphalover.com
"The Seduction End-Game"
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Payton Kane's Seduce and Conquer (http://www.seduceandconquer.com) CD disks present Payton's unique, dynamic style of meeting and seducing women. His methods are very natural and are the epitome of the original advice you get - tease and take away, play hard to get, etc. Definitely worth checking out, but not for everyone.
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Due to popular demand , Learn from the resident Sexpert How to be Outrageously Successful With the Opposite Sex and How to naturally let the game come to you. An intensive 1 on 1 personalized bootcamp taught to you by the East Coast's #1 Personal Dating Coach and Mentor. For more info go to http://www.youaresoinmyway.com
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NEW PRODUCTS FROM DAVE RIKER
Have you ever wished that Speed Seduction® was taught in a more structured way, piece by piece, subject by subject, in a way that allows you to really
understand it, really KNOW it and really USE and APPLY it even better than before?
If so, check out http://www.daveriker.com/ssmanual/
Riker's Seduction Log - Live Seminar
If you always wanted to hear more field reports, with full details, and even some recordings, then this seminar is for you. Dave Riker (Ross's co-trainer for those of you who don't know him) spends about 3 hours each evening going through his personal Logs and notes and provides full reports on SARGEs, many from start to close (finish). And that's a full "close" by the way, not just an email address or phone number!
The seminar is held in conjunction with Ross Jeffries Speed Seduction Seminars. Ross's seminar is during the day (and Riker presents at that too) and then Riker does his seminar in the evening. And even if you do not attend Ross's seminar you can still attend Riker's.
For full details see the web page at: http://www.daveriker.com/logseminar/track/cl.htm (site is either inactive or no longer relevant)
Be sure to check out his "Reviews" page on his site. Many guys that have been in the game for a while, and attended a LOT of seminars, were just blown away by Riker's Log seminar.
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Introducing 1 on 1 Badboy workshops:
Badboy is a Croatian PUA from Zagreb who has spent almost 4 years in the game. He is also a respected poster in Mystery's lounge.
To see some of his stuff, search for posts by "croBadboy" on mASF or read one of the recent issues of Cliff's list.
Workshops are 1 on 1 for 3 days.
Each day consists of a 4-hour seminar and 5 hours of active in-field work. Each night you will make 20-30 approaches with your teacher to get field experience. 1 on 1 training makes it possible to answer any questions you might have and cover the most important aspects of the game in detail. Teachings are tailored to your level in the game.
The basic structure of the workshop is:
Day 1:
Social intelligence/emotional intelligence
How to dress, peacocking vs. dressing style
Alpha-male bodylanguage secrets
Attitude (inner-game) and getting a good seductive voice
Difference between emotional and party type girls
Social dynamics in clubs (2sets/3sets/lonewolves), know your city
Openers (sets with males vs. only-girl sets)
Day 2:
Difference between PUing alone and with a wing
Different tools for getting attraction
Power of contrast (bad boy & nice guy in one)
Stealing their frames
Passing sh*t tests
Push-pull
Isolation tactics(2steps)
Day 3:
AMOG tactics (the AMOG handshake, group set AMOG destroyers)
Boyfriend destroyers
Passing LMR
Secrets of good s*ex
How to manage a good relationship
More bodylanguage secrets
How to turn Coffee dates into f*ck-fest in just 1 hour
How to turn a 0$ date into a time she will never forget
Difference between PUing in different places (small towns, big cities, colleges and the difference between certain clubs and the girls who go there)
Badboy says he can write a pages of what he does with guys because it's not just PU. He opens their EYES to LIFE, to understand how to live successfully.
For more info, email Badboy at badboy@playboylifestyle.net. See Badboy's new website: http://www.badboylifestyle.com/"> http://www.badboylifestyle.com
Small group workshop - Sydney, Australia - October 27-28-29 - 1350.00 $
9 seats available
Instructors: Guest Instructors , Badboy
Additional workshop day - Sydney, Australia - October 30 - 610.00 $
6 seats available
Small group workshop - Melbourne, Australia - November 4-5-6 - 1350.00 $
10 seats available
Instructors: Guest Instructors , Badboy
Small group workshop - Dublin - November 17-18-19 ( 850 Eu ) - 1040.00 $
10 seats available
Instructors: Guest Instructors , Badboy
Additional workshop day - Dublin - November 20 - 610.00 $
5 seats available
You can book your workshop on: http://www.badboylifestyle.com/?badboy=workshops
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Thundercat's New "Seduction Lair"
Get the latest News, Rumors, Tips, Tricks, & Analysis on the Pick-Up and Seduction community! The site is updated daily with lots of free and exclusive content.
Also a good way to keep up with things without having to navigate mASF. Drop By TSL today! http://www.seductionlair.com/
The Art of Approaching: Learn to meet ANY woman, ANY time, ANY where. The most difficult hurdle for most men to overcome is that of the initial Approach. This comprehensive eBook gives you over 35 unique Openers, as well as a step-by-step roadmap to help overcome your fear of approaching forever!
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Lance Mason ("Sensei") & Wilder Pick-Up 101 (info@pickup101.com):
More than just workshops, PickUp 101 provides focused programs that begin weeks before you arrive with our home study materials, our 3-day skills intensive & field work training, and lasts long after you leave with follow up coaching calls and access to the PickUp 101 private forums.
PickUp 101 provides you 'warp-speed' training in a sequenced progression to take you from complete newbie to getting laid like a rock star with our proven step-by-step programs.
In our current programs you will learn the latest in:
- Attraction Skills
- Night Club Game
- Day Time Game
- Direct AND Indirect Methods of Approach
- Deep Rapport Skills
- Effective Day-2 Seduction Tactics
- Dressing For Your Pickup Artist Identity
- Multiple Relationship Management
- Advanced Pickup Tactics
- And much more...
Our programs are structured to build on each other and NEVER repeat material.
Our instructors stay on the cutting edge of what works, and we won't lock you into any one way of doing pickup. We find what works BEST FOR YOU, and provide you with all the training and coaching you need to succeed.
We also provide monthly free seminars in San Francisco, and free distance learning teleseminars.
Call us toll free for more information.
PickUp 101
1459 Powell Street
San Francisco, CA
1-877-PICKUP-9 (toll free)
The replay of the last teleseminar is available on the PickUp 101 website: The Truth About Direct And Indirect Game From a teleseminar featuring Lance Mason ("Sensei") of PickUp 101 http://pickup101.com/August4/replay.html
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New street seduction CD course from Croatia
mr.ice - Croatian seduction master finally released his seduction audio
CD "Streetmode".
Backed by 5 years of extensive research it contains step-by-step directions on how to seduce girls in normal - everyday environment.
Each part uses structured approach i.e. you are given an introduction that describes specifics of each seduction environment together with steps that are neccesary for you to feel comfortable before you start with the seduction.
You are then guided through the seduction process - from intial approach to conversation and later to kissing and having sex with a girl.
for more information: http://streetmode.atspace.com
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Archangel:
I've got something I think you & your readers would be interested in.
It's called NLP PLUS and you can see it here: http://nlp-plus.com/"> http://nlp-plus.com The entire system is based upon Breath, Body, Mind, Motion. It's a system of Confidence and Persuasion, and is meant to be easy to use with little memorization.
There's a demo lesson here: http://nlp-plus.com/Demo/ConfidenceDemo.asp
The Rapport structure is here:
http://nlp-plus.com/Demo/rapport.htm
The rapport structure is very simple, and extremely effective. All you have to do is the BBMM structure to gain rapport with someone.
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Juggler is back!
Charisma Sciences, led by longtime seduction authority Juggler, focuses on developing a man's natural game. Our clients usually
- aren't connecting with women despite all efforts,
- are sick of using routines and material that isn't their own,
- want to understand vibing skills that will work in *any* situation.
We are now limiting the size of our events to four students with two to three instructors (including Juggler, of course), because we're not just giving a guy some lines and throwing him out there. We get to know our clients and teach them social vibing techniques, based on their own personality traits, that apply to women, men and groups.
There's just no other way to prepare a guy for the breadth of interactions he's going to face in his life, seductive or otherwise.
It's the difference between flash game and solid game. We don't teach men how to impress their friends and thirty other people with some jokes or tricks - we teach them how to consistently get numbers that will not flake, and closes that aren't forced - by building a solid foundation for every interaction.
Our Charm School bootcamp runs Friday to Sunday in Ann Arbor, MI and
other cities worldwide. To learn more about what we teach, you should check out our website, where we have free weblogs, podcasts, compiled articles, and the three-year-in-the-making Juggler eBook. See http://charismaarts.com/. Looks very interesting!
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Giuseppe Notte:
http://www.seduction-and-dating.com/seduction/ - Giuseppe Notte's ALL ABOUT WOMEN: The Encyclopedia Of Seduction EOS is a new product covering the topic of seduction from A to Z. This 100 pages e-book is ideal both for newbies and more experienced guys willing to improve weaker points of their game. The book is split into 6 bigger parts:
1. Being a woman Learn how women think and understand the "logic" behind their actions.
2. How to be the Man Part two is about the attitude. You can attract women just with your presence, by becoming a "real Man". Avoid the most common mistakes men make and learn valuable tips on body language, dressing and improving the overall quality of your life.
3. The first step: meeting girls Overcome your fear of approaching women and open girls anytime, anywhere without excuses. With the powerful techniques in the book, you won't have to memorize any "canned" routines or NLP patterns.
4. Second step: from the first date to having sex Get from the first date to the girl's bed easily. Don't be stressed anymore on when and how to kiss your girl or where to take her. You will learn step-by-step instructions for each phase.
5. Third step: keeping a relationship The secrets of keeping a long, rewarding relationship, or multiple relationships at the same time. You choose.
6. Sex Overcome your problems, improve your sexual life, become multi-orgasmic and turn into an irresistible lover.
For more information, visit http://www.seduction-and-dating.com/seduction/.
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CEIC: Sickboy and Playboy (Mike and Stephen from the DYD interview series) have launched "Cutting-Edge Image Consulting" ( http://www.ceimageconsulting.com/"> http://www.ceimageconsulting.com ). They offer exclusive, one-on-one programs in New York City. Also, they offer a 7-Day Audio Program which covers the following topics:
- A groundbreaking 3 point structure that serves as a roadmap to any successful interaction.
- The two most powerful qualities women are drawn to, and how you can learn to use them with shocking effect
- We go over the subtleties of female psychology and why it is absolutely necessary to do THREE things when meeting a new woman…do you know what they are?
- We disclose the secret of "hooking" - what it means and how to do it with shocking efficiency.
- We uncover a key language skill that can build fascination in any woman, ANYTIME. This skill is critical when building connections, which lead into relationships.
- Devastatingly effective conversational openers and lines.
- How to bait ANY woman into a conversation so that within minutes she is dying to know YOU.
- We list the EXACT places to go where you can meet women with the greatest probability of success. Stop wasting your time in the wrong venues for YOU.
- We teach you how to be the center of attention and the life of the party within SECONDS of meeting complete strangers.
- Learn which conversational topics are fascinating to women. Never be boring again.
- We provide a clear definition of relationships, and why some work and some don't. We give you clear-cut ways to improve all of your relationships TODAY.
- There are three different ways to engage women in conversation when you are socializing. These three are based on the three different environments that exist socially. Do you know what they are? We teach you on Day II of the program.
- We teach you the FASTEST way to begin conversations in ANY environment.
- Learn how to counter the most common rejection phrases from women - NEVER be shot down again.
- We outline the aspects of a successful mindset, and we then lead you through a clear and concise exercise to attain that attitude for yourself.
- MASTER the art of flirting.
- We instantly improve your body language and tonality with simple, clear advice never heard anywhere before.
- We give you a SIMPLE way to ALWAYS be relaxed and comfortable before approaching and engaging women in conversation.
- We have an entire CD which guides you through a step-by-step process for creating a timeline that helps you get back on track in EVERY area of your life. We have a solid system for bringing you in touch with what success means to you, and then developing a timeline - a plan - for success. Our aim is to help your dreams become a reality.
Check out their website today at: http://www.ceimageconsulting.com/"> http://www.ceimageconsulting.com
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http://www.songsofseduction.com/"> http://www.songsofseduction.com
A full rock music album created for the purpose of seduction is finally available! These 10 songs have been arranged to create rapport, capture and lead her imagination, start the attraction process, and ultimately GET HER IN THE SACK! State of the art NLP combined with hypnotic but rockin' music leads her through the seduction process for you. Best of all, it looks like a regular pop-rock album and sounds like the best alt rock on the air! The lyrics have been painstakingly written by NLP programmers, and the music was recorded by world-class recording artists, using the latest in persuasion techniques together with rhythmic emotional influence technology.
Get yours today, and get laid tonight!
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http://www.datinghelpformen.com/"> http://www.datinghelpformen.com is a website designed by a guy who at one time had limited success with women. He posts what he learned there, from his mistakes and errors to his successes. They will be dealt with step by step so that you can repeat his achievement without replicating the miscalculations. This site is for beginners but if any of you pros would like to join the site and help out that would be great (and of course in return those of you with products will get great link placement)
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Check out the 'supermarket of seduction' at http://www.seductionpro.com. Lots of interesting products to look into.
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Impact Interaction (http://www.impactinteraction.com) @ London
Angel Caido, RyobI and Lockstock have been running Workshops and Seminars in London since the beginning of the year. The workshops are small in size (trainer : student ratio of 2:1 as max), so students get personal attention on sticking points.
The workshops include:
- Basejump: For approach newbies who need to get internal game and basic attraction sk