Ross and Payton on Seduce and Conquer in Puerto Vallarta, Baby!
This is Cliff's Private List, a free e-mail relating to seduction. Your contributions of articles, field reports, reviews and other comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from people commenting are separated by HHHHHH with each commentator's name preceding each comment. Comments from previous emails are preceded by an ">", usually in front of that commentator's name). Feel free to forward this email to all your friends and encourage them to request a free subscription by going to www.cliffslist.com and click on "Subscribe." You can also unsubscribe on the site as well. If you would like to be added to the free joke list (and mention if you do not want to receive the adult emails that come with the joke list), send an email to cliff@cliffslist.com. All posts you see here have been submitted by the author, or permission granted by the author to be reposted here. All emails with comments should be sent to cliff@cliffslist.com. If you are reading this as an email, you want to go to www.cliffslist.com and see the entire email, which includes Lair listings (see if there is one in your city or start one if there isn't), promotional notices, seminar notices, new product and website announcements - and lots more. This email has been edited and modified to allow it to pass through the various email filters - the unedited version is on the website.
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DID YOU MISS THE GREATEST ASSEMBLY OF PICK UP ARTISTS, LADIES MEN, & DATING EXPERTS EVER? You are in luck!!
The Cliff's List Convention DVD's are NOW available. Go to www.cliffslistconvention.com and get your copy. Don't miss this outstanding record of a magical event where the best in the World pulled out their "A" games and presented the highest quality information seen anywhere. Featured speakers include Mystery, Style, Tyler Durden, Dave M., Steve Piccus, Will, Cameron Teone, Dr. Alex, David Shade, Doc, Toecutter, Zan, Brent, Bishop, Patty, David DeAngelo, Lance ("Sensei"), and more, including the first Threesome Panel! The reviews have been phenomenal, all confirming that this is the product to take your game to the next level.
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Elvis Lives!!
Hey Guys - I just got in two emails, one from John who has just returned from a trip to meet the King, Elvis Preston King and one from the King himself. Now as Elvis's claims were met with a lot of skepticism, I checked John's email address which I noticed has been on my mailing list for a long time (I only know that because he is on the separate list that I still have in my computer - I haven't been using that for awhile since I now use Aweber - and his address is relatively far down the page which means he was put on there a long time ago) which means that this isn't someone new who could have been just a shill for Elvis. Anyway, a full report is hopefully going to be posted here soon, but to whet your appetite read this:
John: I just got back from my dream vacation. I read about the King on Cliff's List (The Interview of the Decade) and got laid more this week by 10's than I have ever been laid in my life.
I took a chance to meet the King for 5 days and see if he is for real. I had the time of my life. I will report more on my trip soon and want to express my appreciation for that post!!!!
Then Elvis chimed in:
Elvis: I just concluded my show with John who found out about me on your famous Cliff's Seduction List! It was more than successful. He had the time of his life. Lots of live hits! He said he learned more from me in five days than is possible in a lifetime. But not only did he improve his game but he got laid by something like 12 girls in 5 days! He could have done more but there wasn't enough time...he liked three hour sessions in the sack! He was turning down dates for lack of time. Most of his girlfriends were all 10's! He had a local singer, a model and many more. He says he will give you a full report.
Needless to say I sent him home a happy camper. Unfortunately he has a job and had to go home...He was trying to think of way to stay on with me! ..All we can hope for is the lucky 6 so he can hang with the king forever!
Cliff's Comments: Well there you have it guys - breaking news! If you are interested in meeting Elvis, email me.
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Ross Jeffries (www.seduction.com):
Ross comments on Clifford's Report: Seduce and Conquer in Puerto Vallarta, Baby! (www.seduceandconquer.com/seducewomen) > Clifford: Payton tipped the doorman and got us into a semi-secluded area as part of his emphatic request to the bar staff to understand that his was a
> group of VIPs and that we needed to be treated to the best of the house. This would become standard operating procedure and we would
> be greeted everywhere by staff who recognized us, appreciated the tips, and who were ready to do whatever Payton asked to make us
> happy (that, I understood, would include having the doormen and bouncers bringing over the most att*ractive women in the places to
> our table to join us for drinks).
Ross: Well, by golly, I am gob-smacked at the brilliance of this skillful method!
Whip out the Franklins, soak the doormen and bouncers with cash, get shown to the VIP area and have them BRING you women (uh..and for sure NO pros in the bunch, after all this is MEXICO and hookers would never be found in high class VIP clubs...ever).
> Clifford: Near us, and met mostly through proximity comments, were two fairly att*ractive women and a male friend of theirs. One of the women and
> the guy were helicopter pilots who, during the season which this wasn't, would conduct aerial tours of the city. They invited us to
> come back in December when they are flying and they would show us the place when it is really jumping. The second woman, Diana, was
> a waitress at one of the other bars and the cousin of the female helicopter pilot. There was an attraction between us and I
> proceeded to ignore her while she played a lot of little games which Payton and I concluded were designed to draw our attention,
> Which of course I wouldn't give her and this led to Payton remarking to me that not only was she "ready" but she was really
> checking me out repeatedly during the evening. At one point I sat next to her and used a great line that Brian (The Brian that I
> interviewed and which should be considered a "must read" - go to my archives and read the Special Edition - Brian Interview now) gave
> me. I held up my drink to her and said I wanted to make a toast. I said "Here is to one of the most beautiful women I have ever laid
> eyes on... (at this point she smiled and leaned over to kiss me on the cheek, and then I said)...and to you, too!" She burst out
> laughing and had to tell this to her cousin and the guy they were with. Later on we spoke for a few minutes but the words were quite
> secondary as I had my hands all over her in a very intimate yet politically correct manner (eg. I would cup her far cheek with one
> hand, which I would also move up to run my fingers through her hair and caress her skull) while I spoke into her ear on the other side
> of her head, and would graze her cheek and ear with my lips as I spoke to her). She was clearly enjoying the tension that I was
> sparking and caressed her body against me, as well as started to make similar movements all over me when it was her turn to speak.
> She kissed me goodbye and repeatedly told me where she was going to be the next night.
Ross: Uh...ok. So a little kiss goodbye on a woman who was checking you out and
digging you before you opened your mouth.
> Clifford: We ended up back at the hotel around 4 a.m. and I crashed out while the others went for pizza. The next morning we met for breakfast
> followed by some "seminar" which was held in the water at the pool bar. Payton's actual instruction is, I learned, primarily
> delivered through demonstration and the dearth of women at the hotel resulted in him saying that we will see most of what he does
> when we go to Christine's, which is the top nightclub here and which will only be open on Thursday through the weekend. We spent
> the day at the pool and roaming the beach, negotiating with various beach vendors trying to sell us everything from massages, henna
> tattoos, freshly broiled and skewered Marlin and shrimp, to jewelry and knock off designer sunglasses.
Ross: Christine's. I know that place. Not far from the Marina. Again, that is NOT a club that the cab drivers will take you to if you were to ask, "DONDE ESTA LA PUTAS Y LA RAMIRAS". Ahemmm.
> Clifford: While most of us went to rest for the evening ahead, Jack was lying by the pool and noticed this young Mexican lady looking at him. He
> looked away but the next time he caught her eye contact, he smiled and immediately went over to her. He asked her if she had any
> tanning lotion and after she said yes he held out his hand as if to receive some of it. As she was about to pour he pulled away and
> her hand ended up next to his back. She got the message and rubbed the lotion into his back, and ending up giving him a massage for a
> half hour. He eventually sat up and tried to break the Spanish-English barrier but he found he had little to say to her so
> he said "Come with me" and took her to go to his room. In the elevator he put his hands on both sides of her face and kissed her.
> She put her hands on his stomach as he was pulling her hair and he guided her hand down further. Once in the room, she started
> grabbing him and he gently threw her on the bed. She didn't want to have sex (she said tomorrow - obviously not wanting to seem too
> easy) but gave him a bj.
> This was not the end of Jack's adventures for that day. When we had gone through customs in the PV airport, he had approached a
> group of women and said to them casually, "Hey ladies, what's up?" and didn't get much reaction so he looked away. The next day he
> saw one of them leaving the pool area and he said "Hey, what's going on?" and she remembered him from the customs line up. When
> she commented on that, he responded with "Where are you going?" She said she was going back to her room to which he responded, "No
> you're not, you're going with me to have a drink." She said, "No, I have to go to my room." He said "No you don't, get your ass over
> here and have a drink with me." After that comment, she came with him. Once they started drinking he sat next to her and put his
> hand on her leg. He had a few comments that connected, such as when he asked her how old she was and she told him to guess, he got
> it right. Soon after he started talking with her, he started playing with her hair. At one point he made a joke about how she
> needs to get him another drink and then right after he reached up, grabbed her hair and pulled it, and gave her a quick kiss on the
> lips. In the conversation she said something about going to the Jacuzzi so he said "Let's go!" and took her by the arm. She
> started making excuses, how she can't, she has to get ready for dinner, etc. He said, "What's with you girl, you have a beautiful
> idea and don't want to go through with it?" Then he said "I understand you have some things to do so let's just finish our
> drink" and he stood up abruptly as if he was leaving. She said "No, no, sit down, I don't have to go immediately." After that he
> grabbed her arm and said "Cut the shit, we're going to the hot tub!" On the way there, and in front of the other people at the
> lobby bar, he told her to shut up three times, but each time he did that he kissed her. Of course when they got into the hot tub,
> things started to get hot and heavy so he said "it would be nice to take a walk on the beach." Once out there he laid out a towel (it
> was dark by this time) and did her on the beach (he had been carrying around a condom after what happened with the Mexican girl,
> so he was prepared).
Ross: Wow. I am impressed. Why don't you try this bullying approach and see where it gets you?
> Clifford: Jack has been described as being a rank beginner when he first contacted Payton and now is showing great results as well as
> tremendous promise for the future. That evening, we were at a bar called Hilo and this very att*ractive 22-23 year old Jennifer
> Aniston look-alike pretty much threw herself at him. Payton had opened her friend who was sitting at the section of the bar where
> we were stationed (Payton always arranges with the doormen and staff a section where his party is based) and soon after she was
> joined by that girl and 3-4 of their other girlfriends. I did a photo routine with one of them and made out with her for a short
> time but didn't pursue it. It appeared that Jack would be taking her home but her friends dragged her away later in the evening.
Ross: Good on her friend!
> Clifford: But her, as well as numerous others that we met during the week, were all informed that Thursday evening we would all be at
> Christine's, which is known as the hottest nightclub in PV.
Ross: Uh, once again, the putas and ramiras do NOT hang out at nightclubs in Mexico, trolling for customers! THEY...DO...not.
> Clifford: Payton was very pleased with Jack's results and kept telling him that "he's done" and saying "and then there were three" referring
> to the rest of us as his intention is to have all of us closing before the end of the trip.
> We didn't go over to the club that the girl I met the night before mentioned (which was De Santos, and which we visited the next night
> - the place was empty but we were told that the place, which was very classy, is very hot during the weekend) but we did stop in at
> Club 69 which was the bar that she works at. We stayed there for a little while and she and I played the "ignore" game where we said
> hello to each other and then pretended not to notice what the other was up to. We ended up leaving there with nothing particularly
> notable happening.
Ross: Uh, newsflash: she WAS indeed, ignoring you, if NOTHING HAPPENED.
> Clifford: Wednesday was spent shopping and Payton's experience as an image consultant as well as his being fluent in Spanish and knowledge
> about how to deal with Mexican vendors was invaluable. I ended up buying several items that I was very happy to get, as did most of
> the others. In each place negotiations were very productive and significant discounts were had by holding out for a fair price.
Ross: Bwahahahaha. When they mark things up 500% and you get 200% off of that you are still getting reamed.
> Clifford: Payton believes his methods will never truly become mainstream because he is pretty hard core. While other methods debate the
> pros and cons of "negs", Payton goes quite a bit further. His method could be described as about 60% asshole where he treats
> women the way hot women treat men.
Ross: That's an interesting world view. You get what you look for. I know "hot" women who are also intelligent, fun and kind-hearted. They'd run from this
asshole and what he is inflicting.
Now, I can see that club bitches who live in clubs and have no values other than status and stimulation would eat this up.
Guess what?
If you view sex as nothing but dumping loads and discharging the energy you've built up, THESE WOMEN ARE PERFECT. GO FOR IT.
If you want more than just the excitement of hot flesh-sleeve in which to jack off, you might have a problem.
> Clifford: He will tease them, gently insult them ("I like that top you are wearing, did your grandmother
> pick it out for you?"), let them know that they should only be so lucky to go out with a guy like him, dismiss them (one of his
> favourite moves is to turn away and flip his fingers in a 'go away' sort of manner to them), tell them "I don't think so" if they get a
> little too friendly, and alternate this with what he calls "smooth seduction" which he fractionates in a forward and backward pattern.
Ross: ZZzz. Another fractionator? Yes, fractionation works, build time, to build responsive mental set
s. You can fractionate, however, without being cruel
and playing on people's worst insecurities. Just give attention, rapport and then withdraw it.
> Clifford: Payton had planned to take this night off as he felt that he needed to take at least one night off from the late night partying and
> drinking but three Red Bulls charged him up and he was raring to go. We headed back to Zoo bar which was a sausage fest when we
> first got there but a little later in the evening the energy changed and things started happening. I had been strangely
> immobile for most of the trip and I decided to just get moving and started opening up a number of sets. I opened up this very
> att*ractive Latino girl who was there with two also very att*ractive friends, all of whom worked at the Rio hotel. I was getting a lot
> of serious interest from her but at one point instinct told me to escalate but my cautious nature (which has caused me a lot of
> missed opportunities in the past) had me hold off and soon after she excused herself to go speak with some friends and, of course,
> that was the end of that. Ryan (nicknamed Rhino by now) came over met one of her friends, and ended up making out with her for most
> of the night. Payton started up with an att*ractive girl at the bar and she was totally in to him, at one point pulling his zipper
> down! He was pulling her hair, teasing her, pushing her away and pulling her back in, touching her everywhere and she was extremely
> receptive. He lost the set because her friend came by and her friend was into Payton also and ended up cockblocking him because
> she wanted him for herself.
Ross: A master like Payton doesn't know how to handle obstacles? Maybe he should enroll in a Mystery Method course! Ha!
> Clifford: Mark also ended up making out with a girl that evening. I started up with a girl who was going home to Seattle the next day named Selina. She was very att*ractive and was all over me - the lasted about 20 minutes and when I told her let's go over to another part of the bar (I was intending to sit down
> with her in a more isolated section) she said she just wanted to tell her friends something and that was the end of that as she
> ended up not returning. Payton advised me that the next time things are going like that and the girl says she just wants to tell
> her friends or leave for some other reason (probably other than use the bathroom), to tell her "If you go, sweetheart, do me a favour
> and don't come back." Always do to them first what they are going to do to you.
Ross: A fine way to spread peace in the world.
How about not being quite so predatory and scaring the shit out of these women? Duh....
> Clifford: We ended the evening around 5 a.m. with plans to hit Christine's. We had told most of the women we had met throughout the
> trip that we would be there tonight, but none of them showed up and the place was completely coupled up.
Ross: None of them showed up? But I thought they would only be too eager to gobble down that alpha-male, insulting energy! Oh well...dirty bitches!
Next time, get them first. Tell them you will be there and YOU DON'T SHOW UP! In fact, don't show up EARLIER than they don't show up. That'll show
them bitches!
> Clifford: Payton does not typically meet women in clubs by the usual PUA approach and opening up mixed
> sets and extracting women from them isn't quite his style. For himself, these days he mainly will create a buzz in the place he is
> in and then reel in the curious who watch the flickering of his flames. For example, when we arrived at Christine's he immediately
> starts talking to the doormen, wanting to meet the manager and letting them know that if "they take care of him, he will take care
> of them" and that he wants a great section for his VIP guests, and that they want to start with a bottle of scotch.
Ross: Translation: HE PAYS HIS WAY TO ATTENTION.
> Clifford: We are led by the staff to what we are told is the best booth in the place, an elevated maybe 30-50 square foot platform that overlooks the dance
> floor which is prominently exposed to the entire club. Payton spent most of the next couple of hours dancing over the dance floor
> and making eye contact with the various women all over the club while it filled up. It was clear that his plan has the desired
> effect - we noticed a lot of women checking us out with a "who are these guys?" look on their faces. Payton's eye contact involves
> making that contact, and then being the one to break it which he feels intrigues the women - this being contrary to most eye contact
> theory which says that you hold that contact and she should be the one who breaks it. He will make that eye contact again with the
> women and smile and if the response is receptive, he'll hold up his hand and beckon them to come and join him. If they retreat he'll
> make a motion as if he's blowing them off and back turn them. Tonight a woman who was dancing with her group in a similar booth
> kept staring and smiling at him but when Payton motioned for her to come over, she mouthed that she couldn't because she was with her
> boyfriend, but somehow got the message for him to meet her at the bathroom entrance in a few minutes. He went over there and she
> came up to him, didn't say a word and grabbed him, started making out with him, grabbed his ass, and just as quickly broke the
> embrace and scooted off into the ladies' room. As a general rule, Payton doesn't approach for himself anymore because he says that
> "indifference gets you laid" and he really doesn't care whether he does or he doesn't.
Ross: So, they make out with him and run away. Hmmm..could something be missing in his approach?
> Clifford: One critical move that follows what he does in regular clubs is that he will prepare the staff for his
> appearance - for example, before he goes out to the strip club he would call it up, find out who the owners and the managers are (if
> they will tell him) and go and see them. He'll let them know he works hard and wants to come for a drink with a view. He makes
> sure that he gets his usual VIP treatment and will have a great table with drinks when he goes. He basically assures himself that
> the senior staff know that while he may be hard on the strippers, he doesn't touch any of them (he makes it very clear he will never
> order a lap dance) and the extent of his being an asshole only goes as far as a few harsh words.
Ross: He paves the way with his good "wing man" Franklin!
> Clifford: Payton proceeds to order a bottle of scotch and we are frequently raising our glasses
> to a "night of champions" and making numerous alpha male gestures, high fives, & African American style handshakes.
Ross: Wow! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! How COOOOOOL. Ha ha ha ha ha. Do you realize how idiotic this sounds? African American style handshakes? How about a Hebrew
National milkshake? HA HA HA HA
> Clifford: The place started off fairly slow again, but it was clear the female to male ratio
> was better than anywhere else we had been on that trip. Payton opened a group of three Columbian women with "Ladies! How are you
> this evening? Where are you from?" and "Aren't you lucky to meet the most att*ractive man in this place tonight!"
> He soon brings the three of them over and the most att*ractive of the three immediately zooms in on me. Pretty much elbowing Payton
> aside she comes up and wants to meet me. He had told them he was from New York (he was from there years ago) and she asked him if I
> was also from NY to which he replied "Him? He's from Montreal, he owns that place!" Which must have raised her interest level
> although I wasn't aware that he told that to her. The "You have no idea of who you are dealing with here and how lucky you are to be
> talking to us" framework was not only in our attitudes but directly said to these girls and they were eating it up. Two of them, the
> sister of the one that went after me and their friend, spoke very little English but the one I was talking to lives in San Francisco
> so she was fluent in English. I had a little trouble getting her name right (I ended the questioning about this still unsure if it
> was Sanda or Zanda) so I told her I was still not sure what it was so I will call her "Baby" and she said "that works!" Payton pulled
> me aside several times to tell me to be more of an asshole with her and it was great experience to have him there as I tried different
> things on her, all of which only served to up her attraction to me. I was touching her all over as I talked (usually in a borderline
> politically correct manner, such as cupping her face so that I could guide her head while I talked into her ear). I started
> running my fingers through her hair and at one point a photo was taken and apparently I was pulling her hair when it was shot, but
> the shot came out with her head down and one arm up. So I negged her with, "what is this? Why were you smelling your armpit when we
> were taking pictures?" and she said that she wasn't that I had been pulling her hair. She asked me "You like pulling my hair?" and I
> said "yes" and then she asked why. So I told her that in the animal kingdom when the lion mates with the lioness he takes her by
> the mane, and she just loved that. So did the guys when I told them after that I said that. I surprised myself several times with
> my telling her about my value in the situation, as in "Now you are having your best night since getting here because you met us." The
> attitude, "you are so lucky to be talking to me" was starting to permeate my thoughts and behaviour. It was clear that the more ego
> I showed her, the more she smiled and liked it. She said at one point that she was sure she was going to have a sore throat in the
> morning because she was smoking and drinking (actually I forget exactly the reason) so I took her head in my hands, looked her
> straight in the eyes, and told her that tomorrow, when she wakes up in bed, she's going to think of this moment, with me looking right
> into her eyes, and she's going to remember that I told her that she was not going to have a sore throat. She then asked me "well, what
> if I still wake up tomorrow and I have a sore throat?" Then I said, "Well, then you'll turn over and tell me you still have a
> sore throat and I'll see what we can do about that!" She told me several times, with a huge smile, that I am such a bad boy.
> Another thing I did (kudos to Bishop for this old one) was every time she would make a remark to the effect of "why do you think I
> would like that?" when it had to do with some egotistical remark I would have made to her, I would say "You seemed like an intelligent
> woman!"
> She was there despite having broken her leg which was in a cast under her jeans (it was quite remarkable, because if you looked at
> her legs the jeans looked slim yet I touched her leg and it was in a solid cast underneath) as she said she had fallen off a horse.
> The friend, however, told one of us that she had been injured in a terrorist attack. But because of this she was quite immobile - I
> would have liked to move her on to the dance floor and/or isolate her from the group and make out with her, but she literally had to
> be lifted up and down the platform we were on.
> At around 4 a.m., myself and the three women walked from the platform towards the exit, stopping at the bar which was just
> before the hallway to the exit. She kissed me good bye and gave me her email address in order to send her copies of the photos I took.
> I told her that she would have to invite me to see her in San Francisco which she enthusiastically said she would when she
Ross: Wow. You got a smooch and an email address? WOW!
> Clifford: Payton was plastered, having ordered two bottles of scotch at Christine's and a bucket of Coronas at Zoo Bar.
Ross: Me thinks that Payton loves Jack Daniels more than he does Dame Pussy.
> Clifford: Payton prepared us that a strip joint in Mexico is basically a whore house and not like what we see in Canada.
> However, the place did look very similar to what I had seen before in Canada and Payton remarked that this was a pretty tame place.
> When we walked in, one of the girls there practically attacked Payton, kissing him and being very excited to see him. I had
> opened this girl at Zoo Bar a few nights earlier but she seemed to connect with Payton and they had spent some time talking. It
> turned out that she was a stripper and we just happened to stumble into the place where she was working.
Ross: What? A puta hangs out at Zoo Bar? HOLD THE MUSTARD, LEROY! You're kidding? You think maybe more than one of the girls ya'll were macking on and making
out with at those clubs could have been...PROFESSIOnALS?????
> Clifford: She was with another friend who was also very warm in her welcome to us and they told us to
> come sit with them later on. We were placed in a corner booth - it was just four of us as Jack was tired and low on cash and decided
> to return to the hotel. As we were sitting, a girl in a black cocktail dress (who we also had met briefly at Zoo Bar with the
> other girl) came in and proceeded to immediately sit on Rhino's lap.
Ross: What? ANOTHER PUTA was at Zoo Bar? Do we see a pattern beginning to emerge? PAY YOUR WAY INTO THE VIP SECTION. Get attention from putas. Hmmm.
> Clifford: Rhino was doing a lot of what he had learned this week and kept pushing her away. Payton told me when she left briefly that
> she had complained to him that she wanted to sleep with Rhino but that he had his nose in the air. In any event, the first girl came
> back a little later on and started grinding on Payton, making out with him, and postioning herself in some very compromising postures
> in front of him. (It should be noted that there was never any question of any money being paid, drinks being bought, or anything
> of that nature happening between these girls and Payton and Rhino).
Ross: Ha ha ha. They throw you a few freebies to grease your wheels and you think they want you! WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!
> Clifford: Later on, Payton would remark that Rhino played the situation as good as he would have done it himself. At 4:30 a.m. I decided I
> had enough so I left them and hopped in a cab. It really looked like they were going to have a foursome but the next day it turned
> out that Payton's girl had promised to see some friends at another place (an after hours place we had heard about that was open until
> 11 a.m.) and Payton just blew her off after that. Rhino's girl was all over him, making out with him, grinding on him, etc. and then
> at one point, inexplicably, just stood up, went into the back, got dressed and left. It was like it was lost in the overtime, and in
> the end nothing happened.
Ross: ha haha ha. BECAUSE Payton forgot to bring along his favorite wing-man: BENJAMIN F.
> Clifford: The advanced material will include powerful confidence moves, such as how he often will enter a hot, popular
> club and very loudly announce "Ladies and Gentlemen, let the party begin Payton Kane has arrived!" and similar broad, powerful moves
> designed to establish your higher value and attract attention to you - and let the women wonder who is that guy and convey that they
> should only be so lucky to meet him and spend some time with someone like him.
Ross: HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. Ohmigodmommy it hurts! You have GOT to be kidding! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! Is this guy hilarious or what? HA HA HA HA HA!
> Clifford: And he gets his greatest satisfaction by helping good guys turn their lives around to share in this fantastic potential.
Ross: Yeah, that, and pounding the Scotch on YOUR dime!
> Clifford: He mentioned how he has some of his private clients who have exceeded his game
> and will go out with him and tell him that they "will show him how it's done!" He believes that all men have this
> potential within them, those that make the effort to improve themselves should be congratulated and
> he thinks there is nothing you can do that is better than to try and improve yourself. His method, as he says, does not involve
> using pick up lines, routines, hypnosis, etc. but is in sparking the attitude and perspective of power and supreme self confidence
> that will draw everyone around you to you.
Ross: And lots of leaning on his wing man, F.
Payton Kane (www.seduceandconquer.com/seducewomen) Responds: LMAO!!!! Too fucking funny baby! Do I smell… hmmm…what ’ s that…? ENVY there Ross! You know it ’s the world’s deadliest sin right?
Cliff, my man, this is the perfect definition of what I call a "player hater." He actually thinks I greased people $100 each time to get what I wanted?! I tipped Gao, the manager of the Zoo, $10 and only ONCE the whole time we were down there. The guy did ALL that for us for $10? I don’t think so. He simply knew he had some of his "boys" in the house and that’s why he took such good care of us, not for a measly $10!! If anything, I should have given him a hell of a lot more for everything he did and I guarantee you, if we ever go back, he’ll do the same and not expect anything in return again. Why? Because he liked us, plain and fucking simple! What a schmuck this Ross character is! He is your typical jealous hater Clifford who has tons of money and has tried the "tipping" thing but yet still gets denied entry and never gets VIP status because he looks like a schlep and has no idea how to talk to men!!! Hypnotizing men doesn’t work now, does it Ross? I see his type outside Miami and LA clubs all the time trying to pay ME to get them in! He IS NOT a man’s man, far from it and the sad thing is, he knows it AND suffers secretly because of it. You can tell by his distinct anger in the way he responded to your report.
Fuck, I think there’s a skinny little geek out there in LA who could REALLY use my help! What do you think Clifford? LMAO baby! (These comments made my day!)
And, what’s with the "PUTA and RAMARA remarks??? He actually thinks that all those girls that we met and approached were hookers and prostitutes!? I guess the Dallas girls were all incognito right? The Columbian girls and the girls on our flight must have been on assignment too and every girl we met at ALL the nightclubs we went to must have all been there on one big fucking whore convention right? LMAO, give me a break! Is this guy serious? He can’t be! This is his way of dismissing our trip and your results. If he calls them "hookers" then it doesn’ t count. What a sad, sad man… Can you tell how ANGRY he is Clifford? I fucking LOVE IT baby!!! Guys like him make me look sooo much better! Can you smell the hate on this guy? You made my day today Griffin! Here I was praising him to you, thinking he was the only "real deal" out there because he’s been doing it for so long but how mistaken I was. I can tell sooooooo God damn much about his character by the way he responded to this report. I guess being a "has been" is really getting to him. And, if he’s such a stud, why doesn’t he take his students to bars and nightclubs to put his speed seduction to the test? You want to know why Clifford? I’ ll tell you… Because:
1. He probably can’ t get in even with his money… too funny, (that ’s why he’s so angry about it and made so many references to Franklin)
2. Because his shit does not work on modern day hot women and he knows it. They will eat a guy like him up and spit him out within a matter of seconds!!!
Do you think a sexy babe on the Sunset Strip would even pay attention to this guy? No fucking chance! That’s why he seats you in a classroom and teaches you "idealist theories" that sound great on paper but aren’t worth the paper they’re written on. I hate to break it to ya Ross, but we don’t live in the 80’s anymore. The world is different place now. It’s MY place! Welcome to my world baby!
He dissed Matt for "telling" her what to do and getting laid because of it? Isn’t that what he teaches? How to get laid? I guess "hypnotizing" her, begging her and using complicated language patterns would have worked a hell of a lot better? Right! Be a fucking man, Ross. It’s pitiful. Take charge. Tell them what to do. That’s what they want you to do, little buddy. Don’t try to manipulate and con women. They are the lucky ones to be with you, you putz!
They’re supposed to be hypnotizing YOU damn it!
I know his type like the back of my hand, Clifford. I discuss people like him in my Cd’s. He is a hater and a looker. He doesn’t ever get to do the things we did that 1 week that’s why he’s sooo angry. Could you imagine if he saw me in Cancun?!!!? BTW.. Didn’ t he have a Puerto Vallarta seminar? Where are the reviews… what happened? Hmmm let me guess, they probably didn ’t let him in to Christine’s or the Zoo that’s why he thinks it a "hooker" hang out now. Typical hater thinking! Hating, fearing and dissing the unknown. Don’t fear the unknown, embrace it, learn from it and use it to your advantage! You got to stop hating Rossie. You should be admiring baby. The world is a beautiful place! I can honestly help you with all the problems you are having. I can teach you how to be a real man, how to take control of any situation you’re in, how to use eye contact to get what you want from women AND from men and I can teach how to TELL women, including your wife, what to do as opposed to "hypnotizing" them. I mean, come on… what a joke! If you want to be a success in life and with the ladies, you have to show everyone that YOU are different than all the other sheep out there and not only do you have what it takes to enter their "elite club" but you can add to it. Or else you will always be looked upon as a nobody and second rate and I guess so many years of this message being reinforced into your brain has finally hit its mark. You’re such stud online and when you hide behind speed seduction but in the real world, you ain't shit and unfortunately you know it, that’s why you lash out in anger. Too fucking funny baby and way too obvious! But hey, don’t slit your wrists just yet. Give me a call baby. I got some time in March. Book off a few weeks cuz it seems like we got a hell of a lot of work to do.
Comments from Rhino:
Part of the problem is the way the report is interpreted, and the other is that people reading it didn't see what went on (which is key). To see the interaction was essential to knowing how well things were going. Just judging on the results doesn't leave much to go on, but also the way they are presented left them open to his comments. It's sort of hard to explain what happened without actually being there. Every chick I saw Payton talk to was into him. The way he performed to accomplish that is what I was interested in learning. Since I have been back all I have done is hand write all the notes I had on scrap sheets into one book, and try stuff every chance I got, and am getting the results I should be. Since I've been back, I've seriously had way more confidence and walk with my head up more than before.
Clifford's Comments:
I definitely do not agree that this was about using money to gain acceptance - it was about using a few dollars well spent and adding rapport with those we tipped in order to get a great reception. Definitely the girls we met were not pros, other than probably the ones at the strip joint and none of the ones we talked to there made any mention of money whatsoever. One thing which I realized after I sent out the report was that there was this unusual theme that went through all the encounters that we had during the week we were there - whether I explained it well or not, the women we met were chasing us. While the tangible benefits may have been meagre in terms of the specific results (and I was not writing that report to mislead anyone - the facts are the facts), I think the more important part of the week was that we were absorbing and adopting elements of Payton's frame. It's the old "give a man a fish and he eats once, but teach a man to fish and he eats for the rest of his life" story. I have no doubt that the others have been profoundly affected by what we learned over that week - I certainly have noticed significant changes myself as well as a wider and clearer perspective of what is happening in social situations.
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Jason:
I'm working with the guy who owns the Wayne Ross websites to create a massive seduction blowout
sale. This is actually going to be his final sale for these eBooks.
He's decided to yank ALL of his eBooks off the market. He's doing one last mega promotion where he's selling all six of his eBooks for $67.77. This
promo starts Tuesday morning and only goes until New Years Eve. After that, all the products are gone.
For more info or to order, go to: www.sevenmagicwords.com/
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
PROMOS & REVIEWS SECTION (there are NO paid ads in this list and never have been. The "commercial" section is distinguished by the "--------------" separators):
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LAIR SECTION (Lairs are gatherings of PUA's of differing levels and talents that meet in different cities to discuss their experiences and to work together to improve their success with women). More Lair Listings can be found at dutchseduction.blogspot.com/ and at www.bristollair.com, as well as at www.seductionlair.com:
A YAHOO GROUP FOR THOSE RUNNING LAIRS:
If and ONLY if you are running a lair there is now a Yahoo Group for organization ideas for PUA groups. As each lair is different, this group lets us know what other lairs are doing. No seduction related topics are discussed, just organization ideas. To join please email RunningaPUAgroup-subscribe@yahoogroups.com and then email Nightlife at nightlife858@yahoo.com with an intro of who you are and what Lair you are running. You can also go to: groups.yahoo.com/RunningaPUAgroup/
HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE MONTREAL LAIR:
- Sunday January 8 at 8 pm is the next Lair meeting. For more info on joining the Lair (local only, sorry), email me. Out of town bros are welcome to drop in to meetings.
The Lair meetings are very insightful gatherings of guys interested in learning, improving, and helping others to become more successful in their relationships with women. If you are already in a relationship, and you continue to read these emails, you should realize that there is information here to improve and enhance your existing relationship - not only to create new ones.
Here is a list of other Lairs around the world (if you know of any others, please let me know):
MONTREAL JUNIOR LAIR FOUNDED!
Montreal Junior Lair: The Montreal X-Lair has been founded to help minors (who are not permitted to join the Montreal Lair until they are 18) get together and communicate. Lair applications would be sent to MontrealXLair@hotmail.com.
THE TORONTO LAIR
The Greater Toronto Area Lair Goes by the acronym for TOronto PUAS (TOPS) and has been going from success to success lately. There have been great talks by local PUAs who are regulars on Clifford's list, great outings, and membership continues to grow.
TOPs is open to men (and women) at all levels from Beginner to PickUp Artist. Just come with a desire to learn, a willingness to share what you know - and a commitment to test what you learn in the real world.
To join the Lair, send a request to: TO_Lair-owner@yahoogroups.com
If you have questions, you can contact the TOPS President, Smooth (cdnglenn@yahoo.ca) or TOPS Webmaster, Pluvio (pluvio69@yahoo.com)
NEW LAIR FORMED IN DENVER Denver Lair is a community for Denver/Boulder/Colorado area PUAs to wing, talk about the game and make friends in the community. If you're in the Colorado, join our yahoo-group: groups.yahoo.com/group/denver_puas/
NEW LAIR FORMING IN RICHMOND, VIRGINIA
Hi, I'm starting a lair in Richmond, Virginia, the state capitol with a rather big scene. Currently all gamers in Richmond are forced to go up to DC, or down to North Carolina if they wish to attend a lair meeting. I would like to keep that experience at home, as we have many beautiful women in this wonderful city. Send an email to miikey723@yahoo.com if you wish to join.
EUROPE LAIR FOUNDED
Red Priest has founded the Europe Lair. You can find the description here:
http//groups.yahoo.com/group/europelair/
ISRAEL LAIR:
Fr the Israel Lair, Tironut 69, go to www.tironut69.com/"> www.tironut69.com
DUNEDIN, NEW ZEALAND LAIR FORMING
For all you Otago students (or campus orbiters) who think you got game! This will be the southernmost lair in the world. Run by an RAFC with a fair bit of bookwork and small experience- any skill level you want, just prepared to approach, talk and try out new stuff. Email me at beest.goes.roar@gmail.com, and will see if we can't get a local lair started. it's time to bring the game to the deep south!
WELLINGTON, NEW ZEALAND LAIR:
A new lair is starting up in Wellington, NZ. Primary focus will be regularly going out and working in the field. Anybody who wants to join constructive, like-minded people in persuingthe PUA lifestyle; email Matt on moxyfmac@gmail.com
TAMPA BAY AND ST. PETE, FLORIDA:
We started a new Lair in the Tampa Bay area. All styles welcome. e-mail us at paradigmaman@yahoo.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN GENEVA
We want to create a Lair in Geneva, Switzerland. It would be open to French and English speaking people living in Geneva and neighbouring cities like Lausanne and France as well willing to meet and seduce women. All skill levels and ages are accepted. The main task of the Lair will be field experiences on a regular basis. Contact Julien at : Julien72@bluewin.ch
NEW GROUP FOR CHICAGO
Chicago Wingman Meetup Group which currently holds meetings on the first Saturday of every month at 3:00 pm, the place will be disclosed to members once they sign up for the group. The website address is wingman.meetup.com/18/ - this group is combining with the Chicago Lair, whose contact was Eric at theprogen2003@yahoo.com Since they've just starting to hold meetings, they have a flexible format but as they get more organized they plan to have guest speakers. Anyone who knows a local PUA (not self proclaimed) is encouraged to invite him/ her over to share ideas. Please post all org issues under www.fastseduction.com/cities/Chicago
NEW LAIR FOR EDMONTON
*The Mastermind* The Mastermind is a highly exclusive Pick Up Artist Lair. Based out of Edmonton, Canada we assist guys who are serious and motivated to improve their Pick Up Artist game. We’re located at groups.yahoo.com/group/edpualair/ You can also email: manofadventure@jasons-world.com
SAN RAFAEL, CALIFORNIA
The Seduction Lair is up and running in San Rafael, California. Contact activte@aol.com for more information.
PARIS PICK UP CLUB
Formed by a group of FRIENDLY motivated guys from all nationalities with some solid game. The Paris Pick Up Club (PPC) is where all the PUA's and RAFC's BROTHERS living in Paris can share experiences, wing with different people and practice techniques. The goal is to IMPROVE our GAME while having lots of FUN. Since the purpose of the PPC is to practice, in order to join, future members must be available to SARGE regularly. Contact alfaztec@yahoo.com
SALT LAKE AREA SEDUCTION LAIR
We are an expanding group of guys that are into the material by David DeAngelo and his Dating Gurus, of DYD. And we want to use this group to get/give advice, to share experiences and the results. And to meet up with other guys, so we can go out and work on our game together. A group that is more than just pick up lines, but wants to challenge their inner/outter game, etc... For info, contact LOVEStobeHATED@aol.com
BELGIUM: NL Lounge at dutchseduction.com/"> DutchSeduction.com
An independent platform for the phenomenon known as "seduction" in the Dutch language with members in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, Belgium and points beyond. Founded in 1999, we are one of the first international groups dedicated to seduction. Our purpose is to help members meet one another and share information and experience. Write to passie at passie@gmail.com Visit our Website: www.dutchseduction.com/"> www.DutchSeduction.com
NETHERLANDS: NL Lounge at dutchseduction.com/"> DutchSeduction.com An independent platform for the phenomenon known as "seduction" in the Dutch language with members in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, Belgium and points beyond. Founded in 1999, we are one of the first international groups dedicated to seduction. Our purpose is to help members meet one another and share information and experience. Write to passie at passie@gmail.com Visit our Website: www.dutchseduction.com/"> www.DutchSeduction.com
NEW LAIR IN NEW ORLEANS
There is a new Lair in New Orleans and here is the info:
groups.yahoo.com/group/NewOrleansPlayers/ - MIKEALW@HOTMAIL.COM.
Description: This group is for guys in the New Orleans area who are studying the Double your Dating material by David DeAngelo. This group is to get and give advice, to share your experiences and results, and to hook up with other guys so you can go out and work on your game together. Anyone in the New Orleans area is welcome from inexperienced to PUA's.
NEW LAIR IN SINGAPORE
The Singapore Lair is a community for guys interested in improving their skills in meeting and attracting/seducing women. This group is mainly for guys who live in or travel to Singapore, although PUAs from other countries are also welcome. Membership is restricted to doers only -- you must be in the field and have real field experience. No armchair theorists allowed. To join this group, email singaporelair-owner@yahoogroups.com with your name, background and experience.
NEW DALLAS LAIR FORMED
Dimitry has started the Dallas Wingman Meetup Group, a Dallas-Metro Seduction Lair
Website: wingman.meetup.com/6/
HUNGARIAN LAIR FORMING
Hungarian Lair (Budapest) invites all visiting and local people for a great time of sarging in Budapest clubs and streets. We field test MM, SS, RSD, Maniac Plan and various other stuff. Contact us at redpriest_hu@yahoo.com!"
NEW LAIR FORMING IN ITALY:
Our goal is to have a lot of FUN! Why did we create a Lair? To keep in touch with each other and to rock the Italian scene, we want to live like rockstars since we know we DESERVE IT. We have had enough of all the boring guys and loser boyfriends out there that are making women's lives a nightmare when they are waiting for US, the playboys. Join us and we will share with you a lot of secrets that you need to know to totally transform your life life and get more choice not only in life but with every relationship. In order to learn you must be willing to go out with us and try new stuff asking to yourself: "What is possible? What if I get the results I only dreamed of and then even more than that?" Send an email at italy_lair@yahoo.com to join.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN NORWICH (UK):
The Norwich lair has been setup for RAFC and PUAs from East Anglia (UK) who wish to go sarging in in Norwich City Centre. The group is open to everyone who is serious about fieldwork in the Norwich area, and membership is free of charge. Norwich is about 2 hours from London by train. To join the listsend an email to norwichlair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.
OHIO LAIR FORMED:
An Ohio Lair has just been created for ASFers located in Ohio. I'm hoping to have regular sarging meetings at different cities in Ohio and regular guest speakers. Any ASFer in Ohio who is interested in joining please email me an intro of yourself to philonous03@yahoo.com.
VIRGINIA/CAROLINA LAIR GROUP
The VAC (Virginia Carolina) Lair is a community for Virginia and Carolina area PUAs to talk about the game, make friends in the community, and meet up with wings in the area. Current members are located in the Charlotte, Blacksburg/Radford, and Raleigh/Chapel Hill areas. While those from outside this area are encouraged to participate, most events will likely be held within these areas. The VAC Lair is open to all levels from Beginner to PickUp Artist (PUA). Just come with a desire to learn, a willingness to share what you know, and a commitment to field test what you learn. groups.yahoo.com/group/vaclair/
SECOND NEW YORK LAIR STARTED:
With the help of a few friends, Strongbad has started a lair in NYC. They have 16 members within the last 2 weeks. Send an email to either strongbadpua@yahoo.com or
NY-PLAY-subscribe@yahoogroups.com to join if you live in the NY area.
BLOOMINGTON LAIR STARTED:
The Bloomington, IN lair for guys interested in attraction/seduction. This is a group made for guys that want to discuss techniques, inner game, make
new friends, and meet up with wings in the Bloomington area. If your interested in subscribing email: b-lair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
AUCKLAND, NEW ZEALAND LAIR
Anyone living in Auckland (New Zealand) are welcome to join this bad ass lair. It's consantly growing, we have guys with all sorts of experience levels with diverse styles of game. We SARGE regularly. So if you're up for some fun e-mail us at akpuah@gmail.com"
SCOTLAND LAIR:
There is now a Scotland Lair. It's the SSs Group and we have a website at www.scotlandlair.com/"> www.scotlandlair.com that we JUST put up. The group is currently yahoo based and we would like to start taking in any members who may or may not have heard about us yet. To join, they can visit SSs.scotlandlair.com which will redirect them to our mailing list, or email signup@scotlandlair.com for more instructions on joining. The website is starting to grow big as it's seen on ASF. We have our own discussion forums. We also have a photo and VIDEO gallery where PUAs can upload their own photos and videos and browse those of others!! We are also giving out free scotlandlair.com email addresses to contributors.
BRAZIL NOW HAS A LAIR:
To join please send an email to Brazil_P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN TOKYO:
The Tokyo lair now has a discussion board for discussing the finer points of the Japanese scene, guys looking to meet wings and discuss all things nanpa can email tokyolair@hotmail.com for an invite to the board.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN ARIZONA:
We have formed a lair for guys interested in pickup and seduction in Arizona. It is open to anyone in the state, regardless of specific city, or skill level. If you are interested in joining, send an email to cramias@mail.com and you will receive an invite to our private forums.
ANNOUNCING SOUTH FLORIDA P-L-A-Y LIST:
The South Florida P-L-A-Y list is a community for Miami, Ft Lauderdale and Boca-Palm Beach area PUA's to meet up and improve their game in the field.
All methods are welcome. Please understand that our primary focus will be field work. To join, please contact Zuzu atSouthFlorida-P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
THE INDIA LAIR
We are a small but dynamic bunch of aspiring PUAs in India. Guys of all skill levels are welcome but MUST be serious about actually getting out in the field. Please register at the site. New registrants will be verified to weed out KJs. Visit www.indialair.com/"> www.indialair.com
BRISTOL LAIR
These guys have a truly great site, with a lot of terrific resources. Go to www.bristollair.com.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN DALLAS/FORT WORTH:
If you are interested in joining, please send an e-mail to dfwseductionlair@yahoo.com.
NEW LAIR IN GERMANY!
The name of the group is PU_Meetings_Germany. It´s a field oriented group and we welcome everybody from all over Germany to join and attend our meetings which are held in different cities all over Germany. For further information write to: pimpstylez@hotmail.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA:
A new lair called the O.C. Player's Group is forming for members of the seduction community in Orange County, California. The group will be a place for everyone from aspiring to accomplished PUAs in "the OC" to post their pick up experiences and successes and meet occasionally in a constructive and non-critical environment. Everyone is welcome, but you must be serious about becoming a PUA and the emphasis will be on getting out into the field and reporting on what worked and what didn't. Armchair pua/theorists need not apply! Contact pua1day (Kurt) for further information at o.c.playasgroup@sbcglobal.net or to join at:
groups.yahoo.com/group/ocplayasgroup/
NEW LAIR FORMING IN HARRISBURG, PA:
No keyboard Junkies, only people who are willing to go out in the field and just get better at the game. All levels are welcome. Contact Gaurang at
NEW SYDNEY LAIR STARTED!!!
Monthly meetings with guest speakers. All levels welcomed only prerequisite is that you are in the field. To join please email ta_justin@hotmail.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN OKLAHOMA CITY:
Lu is looking to start a lair in Oklahoma City, OK. He would like to invite anyone who's interested in going out sarging to join, & help him get the lair started, please respond only if you are interested in Going Out & SARGE, or Doing Field Work, contact him at ljp97001@yahoo.com.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN PHILADELPHIA
Looking for a group of guys interested in a Lair in the Philly area. All experience levels welcome but must be willing to actually go into the field. See philadelphiaLair@yahoogroups.com or email me at myaroch@yahoo.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN AUCKLAND, NEW ZEALAND:
We have already met-up with couple of local guys and SARGE 2-3 times a week. We are willing to meet-up with more guys to share the PU knowledge and experience to improve our game. Those of you who are interested contact us at sexualpredator@em-wave.com"
KANSAS CITY LAIR FORMING:
Looking to get a group of like minded guys together to share ideas and most importantly work the field in Kansas City MO. Write eclypz@hotmail.com and include "From Cliff's List" in the title.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN CONNECTICUT:
Open to PUAs and RAFCs who live in CT who are interested in or have real field experience as opposed to keyboard theory. Send an email to djsemtp00@aol.com with your background and experience.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN OTTAWA:
Ottawa Lair yahoo group created groups.yahoo.com/group/ottawalair/
NEW LAIR FORMED IN BOSTON:
The Boston Lair is now open. The lair is a forum for brothers in the Boston, Rhode Island, and upper New England area to get together and meet others in the game and to build an active community in Boston and the surrounding areas. To subscribe to the Lair, email b-o-s-lair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN NORTH CAROLINA:
A group is interested in forming a lair in the North Carolina area. Members include attendees of the Charlotte Sargeathon in November 2003. Meetings may rotate through different cities (possibly outside North Carolina) depending on interest. Contact Jason at thee_jacas@yahoo.com with LAIR in the subject line for more information.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN POLAND:
We've formed a LAIR in Poland groups.yahoo.com/group/pflayers/join so if anybody is interested in joining it contact me at PFLayers-owner@yahoogroups.com or subscribe at PFLayers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. It's unmoderated formum where You can excange your views on the game and meet with wings in your area.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN LAS VEGAS:
Nightlife who runs San Diego is helping a few guys set something up in Vegas so a new group is now forming. To join please send an email LV-P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com be prepared to give a brief intro.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN ITALY:
Milano will be headquarters. All Italians, Swiss, Austrians, etc are welcome to join. Would like to set up infrastructure for weekly or biweekly weekend sargefests, both day and night. Goals include: hosting seminars/workshops of the world's best PUAs, sharing the best techniques for Italian hotbabes, sarging together, sarging trips to Roma, Firenze, etc. We need to get a solid core of about 10 guys to really get it going. All levels welcome. Email italypua@yahoo.com for info.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN ATLANTA:
I am interested in forming an Atlanta Lair. If interested, please send an e-mail to jospades54321@yahoo.com
NEW LAIR FORMING MILWAUKEE TO MADISON:
A Lair is start for the Milwaukee to Madison, Wisconsin area. Emphasis will be on field sarging and developing a network of like-minded "wings" to develop and maintain a secret society in this area. We will SARGE from the college bars of Madison to the redneck fishermen bars of Lake Country to the cheesy working class discos of Milwaukee. All interested parties (male or female) please contact g66@outgun.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN MONTERREY, MEXICO:
The style I use is C&F from DYD, but am willing to try other styles, and will be very focused in going out and learning. Anyone interested in forming a Lair here in Mexico just write to me: javimartinez50@hotmail.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN HONOLULU, HAWAII:
Showing those surfergirls a good time since late '03. Drop an e-mail to lair808@hotmail.com for more info on building sandcastles.
NEW LAIR IN CHINA (MAINLAND, TAIWAN, HK):
A list for China based PUA has been set-up. Discuss PU tactics/experiences in China, and meet and practice with other local PUA. Contact Angel Caido on el_angel_caido@lycos.com and join the group @ groups.yahoo.com/group/PUA-china/join
NEW LAIR FORMING IN OSLO:
The Oslo Lair just opened. If you are interested / want to join, go to groups.yahoo.com/group/asf-Oslo/ and apply. We will start out with monthly meetings, on the first Sunday of every month. The first meeting will be held December 7th, at 18h00.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN LOS ANGELES:
The LA List, PLAY (Player's Los Angeles Yahoo) Group, is a community for Los Angeles area PUAs to talk about the game, make friends in the community, and meet up with wings in the LA area. The PLAY List is a community that is open to the public and is a place where you can share your views on any methods in an unmoderated (except for deletion of spam) forum. Contact Papa at papa@realsocialdynamics.com and get on the mailing list by emailing p-l-a-y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.
WASHINGTON, D.C.:
DC Seduction, formerly known as DC Area PUAs, has been around since 2000. We are over three dozen brothers drawn from the FastSeduction, SS, and the Lounge communities. Contact Minger at minger@dcseduction.com
SEATTLE LAIR FORMING!
I would like to find out how many are interested in forming a Seattle Lair. Contact theloinking1@hotmail.com to get on their mailing list.
THE AUSTIN SOCIETY (AUSTIN, TEXAS)
The Austin Society is a group of friends, within the greater Austin/San Antonio area, improving their attraction and relationship skills through field work and study. If you are interested in joining and contributing to our group, email us at theaustinsociety@yahoogroups.com for more info. Open-minded gentlemen of all skill levels are welcome."
NEW ORLEANS LAIR FORMING:
Joseph is looking to set up or find a "mastermind group" of likeminded people and he is in the south MS area about 1.5 hours drive from New Orleans or the MS gulf coast. He would like to invite anyone in MS/LA/AL within driving distance to participate, and to help him to get it started. Contact him at: veuxdeux@yahoo.com
NYC:
Contact Marco, marcorulesinfinity@yahoo.com and get on their mailing list: NYCTSF-SUBSCRIBE@YAHOOGROUPS.COM
SAN DIEGO (TWO GROUPS NOW!):
1) The San Diego lair is now opening their doors to potential new members for the next 30 days. If interested in joining the San Diego lair please contact Nightlife at nightlife@playboylifestyle.net
2) Pete M., and Nightlife have formed another seduction group in San Diego. This is to benefit guys who are interested in Pick Up who live or frequent San Diego. It is a group that is modeled after the LA P-L-A-Y list. To join send an email to SD-P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com It is open to everyone in San Diego.
SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA LAIR:
We have a very active group in the San Francisco area dedicated to improving their game. All skill levels and types of game welcome. We have meetings once every 6 weeks or so, and numerous SARGE outings. We also have top PUA's share their knowledge with us when they come to San Francisco. Our list traffic is low but valuable. Lots of field reports and feedback. To join send an email to sf_morpheus_x@yahoo.com, and mention you heard about us on Cliff's list.
TOLEDO, OHIO - METRO DETROIT:
I am interested in starting a Lair in the Toledo, Ohio - Metro Detroit Area; Those interested should email Jay at TSAFriend@hotmail.com
HOUSTON:
www.houstonlair.com Members of the Lair meet regularly, actively apply and improve their skills and are eager to teach success. Contact: xmlenigma, bashev can be reached at xmlenigma@yahoo.com, rnkayab@hotmail.com
MELBOURNE, AUSTRALIA:
The Melbourne Lair is now fully operational. Currently we are meeting once a month, with members hooking up to go sarging between meetings. All styles, ages, and abilities are welcome. To join us contact Craig at cnoodles@bigpond.com.au
Melbourne Lair: The place, an open shopping center in the heart of the city. I sit down at the food court and wait for familiar faces to arrive. I picked the location of this months meeting of the Melbourne Lair, Its great to have it in an informal place like a food court, sets a nice relaxing mood. Once everybody arrives we push some tables together and start the meeting. We discuss peoples sticking points and offer suggestions, we tell stories of crash and burns and success stories. We just shoot the sh*t, it f*cking great to meet up with like minded people. While telling someone my smurf routine, I see two guys get up from the table and start walking away, I glance back later to see them sitting with a girl, these guys are approach machines.
The meeting goes on way too f*cking long, everybody's got a story to tell, advice to offer, we could talk to each other for days. I feel like this is Ocean's 11 and we are planning the big heist. There is the leader, he started the group. The guru, he's an encyclopedia of info. There is the joker, he can't stop negging and teasing everyone; f*cking Canadians. There's the approach machines, they can't follow the conversation because they are too busy following the nearest piece of ass. There is the SSer, the grease boy and of course Brad Pitt. We all exchange numbers before leaving and make plans for sarging during the week. If there is a Lair in your area, join it, if there isn't, start one of your own. You will not regret it.
AUCKLAND, NEW ZEALAND
Philip has started a LAIR for those who live in the upper North Island of New Zealand (Auckland, Hamilton, Tauranga, etc). There are already 4 of them who have been meeting regularly in Auckland, and they welcome others to be in touch. SSer's from elsewhere in New Zealand are also welcome to email to share experiences and form a network. Contact: philip@toeb.co.nz
MIAMI:
Contact Jerry at trudelle@email.com to attend.
LONDON, ENGLAND
The London Seduction Society www.thelss.com
AMSTERDAM:
Contact Big Bear groups.yahoo.com/group/nllounge/
The main purpose of the Lair is to help Wingmen to get in touch with each other and "in field" action! Membership open to anyone who lives in Holland or Belgium, or is a frequent visitor. However membership policy is strict.
PERTH, AUSTRALIA:
The Perth lair is a small group of people who SARGE regularly several times a week. At the moment, I'm actively looking for new members to join us on our outings (the more the merrier!). Anyone wishing to go sarging with us any day of the week should email me at tnejad@hotmail.com to meet up.
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Blake Richards has put out a new ebook that looks very interesting. Check it out here: www.social-mastery.com/Game.html
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Real Social Dynamics WORKSHOPS:
I highly recommend that you check these guys out. They are in the final stages of producing their long-awaited e-book as well as a redesign of their website.
Anyone interested in attending their seminars and/or workshops, email Papa at papa@realsocialdynamics.com with the subject "WORKSHOP" and mention that you heard about it from Cliff's List.
Real Social Dynamics (www.realsocialdynamics.com/ ):
Learn what works in seminar, and then jump directly into the field and watch the instructors demonstrate and teach it live. Stop feeling the fear of not knowing what to do ...
Individualized Bootcamps
Sign up and get more info here: www.realsocialdynamics.com/):
More info also available by sending an email to: support@relsocialdynamics.com
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The Venusian Art Society is dedicated to the pursuit of Relationship Mastery.
We have started a Yahoo group in each city our members are located in Denver,Houston, and Atlanta. You can register for membership by going to Yahoo and joining V_A_S_D or V_A_S_A or V_A_S_H. Be sure to include your experience in the Venusian Arts as well as what you hope to get out of them.
This forum will serve as a way to discuss any and all issues related to the Venusian Arts, from cold approach to relationship management. We welcome all active participants in the Venusian arts from any of the various schools such as MM, SS, DYD, etc..
This will be a controlled forum so feel free to post anything you want as long as it is directly relatable to the Venusian Arts. This is not a classified board or a place to advertise.
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New Dating/Seduction Seminars & Workshop in Montreal by DOC!
Doc, who many of you know from his great interview here last time and all too rare but outstanding posts on this list, on Mystery's Lounge, and the Montreal Lair, is bringing his seminars and speed dating events to Montreal. Previously they were mainly held in Toronto as part of the Learning Annex, Doc is now setting it up here and plans to hold events on a monthly basis.
The website is www.lifeskillsnetwork.ca. Registrations available on the website. The events are Dating Secrets for Women, a 3 Hour seminar (cost $50) and Dating Secrets for Guys; a Guide to The Art of Dating (also 3 hours and $50). There will also be a speed dating event in the evening for $50. You can contact Doc by email at seduction.school@sympatico.ca.
The fall calendar has a full weekend seminar and makeover. He also has 3 new books coming out this fall under the SETNA Dating Manual Series. Volume I (to be released this week) deals with the psychology of attraction, first impressions, and working on your inner game, Volume II (coming in September) deals with tactics and strategies to go from meeting her to dating her, and Volume III will deal with Managing Relationships.
Full-weekend Dating Makeover workshops will be offered soon (including a half day with a personal stylist, video tape analysis of body language, and live practice sessions with dating coaches beautiful women who will give the guys on the spot feedback on how they come across and what to improve). If there is a group of 10 or more guys interested in a seminar (or 5 guys for a workshop, he would consider making a special trip to their city).
This is a great opportunity to learn from a real master.
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Mystery Method Workshops:
What method are YOU using?
If you are opening groups (or sets: 2-sets, 3-sets, mixed sets, etc) of people with the 3 second rule by stacking indirect openers (including false opinion openers), false time constraining (discovered by Style), demonstrating a higher value to your romantic interest’s peer group with high octane DHVs while she obliquely observes (locking her into her own set with a prop), and simultaneously performing false disqualifiers (which include negs) on her with the intension of disarming her peergroup and then isolating her to rebuild her self-esteem once you have enough IOIs (indicators of interest) so you may share in a comfort and trust building effort and then build in a jealousy subplot to solidify her attraction for you, you are using The Mystery Method.
If instead you are only approaching women who are alone, you are greatly limiting your options and quite likely alienating your target's friends. Do you want a lonely woman (why is she lonely?) or a woman who already has a healthy social lfe? Truth is, healthy women have healthy relationships ... sometimes good friendships with guys. Like it or not, you will have to meet these women with men in her group.
Women of beauty are rarely found alone. Don't miss the opportunity to meet and attract them WITH social proof from her very own peergroup. Group Approach Theory (GAT - created by me) improves your options and increases the chances for attraction DRAMATICALLY over Single Approach Theory (SAT).
The guys who are GREAT in this game KNOW that they can improve their game ten-fold through seminars and personal coaching in-field workshops. Think about this: Why did so many of the greats who use my GAT (Style, Tyler D., MTL_PUA, and others) take my seminars and workshops? What started them off to greatness in this game? Can you see the co-relation may in fact be a causation?
If you have NEVER taken a seminar or workshop before, it's time to finally reconsider. They are life-transforming. I have conducted dozens of them. I am currently conducting a bootcamp and will accept only 5 people. Workshops and seminars were for many of the greats THE difference between great success and failure. If you are ready, give me a call and sign up. If you have any questions, give me a shout at 323-219-8696 (Mystery) because email sucks, or visit www.mysterymethod.com/"> www.Mysterymethod.com and email me your #. We need to talk. Man to man.
NEW: Attraction Magic
Content: In the Attraction Magic Seminar, Mystery will teach you the magical illusions most useful in picking up women. In addition to rune casting and sleight of hand, he will teach you to vanish coins, rings, jewelry and other small objects. You will also be taught how to move objects without touching them and how to "read" minds. As I'm sure you can imagine, magic is a superb DHV. Captivating and impressing an entire group of people goes a long way in raising your social value in the eyes of women. If there is one thing that Mystery knows more about than women, it is magic.
www.mysterymethod.com/schedule.htm
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Swinggcat has published a new ebook which you can check out at his website at www.realworldseduction.com. Those of you who remember his outstanding posts here will be anxious to get this as soon as possible. Highly recommended.
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Ross Jeffries Speed Seduction Seminars (www.speedseduction.net/)
Advanced Speed Seduction® Seminars - All Seminars Updated!
The first 2006 seminar is scheduled for LA, Jan 20, 21, 22. Look for more details soon, or call Dr. Yates at 903-482-1034. Price is $1,195, but it's $895 if you sign up by December 15th. This seminar is ONLY open to those who own a Speed Seduction Home Study Course so you better hop on line and buy one now if you don't already have one and plan on attending.
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Major Mark (www.trucor.com):
Send mail to Cassi@trucor.com with questions or comments about his seminars.
Call to register: 419 882-8543 or go to www.trucor.com
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Double Your Dating LIVE! NEW Seminar! We will be reviewing all of the new DYD products here soon, including the monthly interview series in which David DeAngelo interviews "Dating Gurus".
You can order all your DYD products and register for seminars through this link: www.doubleyourdating.com/cl
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Threesomes! The Secrets To Making Your Fantasy A Reality
A home study course by David Shade www.masterful-lover.com/3somes.html
If you are like most men, you have had a fantasy about a threesome with 2 hot bi-sexual women. Everything you could possibly need to know about how to have threesomes is in this special information packed course.
The FIRST And ONLY, step-by-step guide written for men, featuring Pickup Artists and couples who are actually having threesomes all the time.
I GUARANTEE you that you've NEVER been exposed to, or had real Threesomes explained to you in the way I've done it here in this course!
It doesn't matter if you are in a relationship currently or not, every situation is covered here...
- The 3 scenarios to make a threesome happen (pick the one that works BEST for you)
- How to have threesomes as part of a committed relationship (and have it bring you closer together)
- The real truth about women and bisexuality (This will SURPRISE you)
- Proven methods to deal with your woman if she is on the fence about having a threesome. (You will have her begging you to make it happen)
- 4 vital things you MUST know about bisexual women (if you want to be successful having threesomes)
- How you can tell if a women is bi-sexual or not. (It's not what you think)
- The single biggest obstacle most women have to doing a threesome with their man. (when you can deal with this, the rest is easy)
- The foolproof way to bring up the subject of threesomes when you
have been with a woman for a long time. (This one is so powerful I almost didn't release it)
- The one thing you can say that shows a bisexual woman you are NOT like all the other guys (Do this and they might even fall in LOVE with you)
- Also, actual field reports of David & his girlfriend picking up bisexual women
- And much, much more...
The bottom line is that by learning how to have threesomes... YOU can live life fully and enjoy being a sensual person through expression of healthy sexuality in a mutually beneficial way.
Free samples of the course video online, check it out at www.masterful-lover.com/3somes.html
The classic 'David Shade Manual' goes online
You've done all the hard work, found the HB, attracted her, managed to get her back to your place, now you need to skills in the bedroom if
you want to keep the attraction going. Being able to give her the sexual experience of her life is the final tool in the seducer's
toolkit, so make sure you make the most of this opportunity. David Shade, as you are no doubt aware, is well known in the seduction
community as the master of bedmanship skills.
His masterpiece the 'David Shade Masterful Lover Manual' is now available for the first time online at www.alphalover.com/cmd.php?ad=145730"> www.alphalover.com . Highly
recommended, it is possibly the only book on the subject you will ever need. Compulsory reading.
www.alphalover.com/cmd.php?ad=145730"> www.alphalover.com
"The Seduction End-Game"
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Payton Kane's Seduce and Conquer (www.seduceandconquer.com) CD disks present Payton's unique, dynamic style of meeting and seducing women. His methods are very natural and are the epitome of the original advice you get - tease and take away, play hard to get, etc. Definitely worth checking out, but not for everyone.
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Due to popular demand , Learn from the resident Sexpert How to be Outrageously Successful With the Opposite Sex and How to naturally let the game come to you. An intensive 1 on 1 personalized bootcamp taught to you by the East Coast's #1 Personal Dating Coach and Mentor. For more info go to www.youaresoinmyway.com
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NEW PRODUCTS FROM DAVE RIKER
Have you ever wished that Speed Seduction® was taught in a more structured way, piece by piece, subject by subject, in a way that allows you to really
understand it, really KNOW it and really USE and APPLY it even better than before?
If so, check out www.daveriker.com/ssmanual/
Riker's Seduction Log - Live Seminar
If you always wanted to hear more field reports, with full details, and even some recordings, then this seminar is for you. Dave Riker (Ross's co-trainer for those of you who don't know him) spends about 3 hours each evening going through his personal Logs and notes and provides full reports on SARGEs, many from start to close (finish). And that's a full "close" by the way, not just an email address or phone number!
The seminar is held in conjunction with Ross Jeffries Speed Seduction Seminars. Ross's seminar is during the day (and Riker presents at that too) and then Riker does his seminar in the evening. And even if you do not attend Ross's seminar you can still attend Riker's.
For full details see the web page at: http://www.daveriker.com/logseminar/track/cl.htm (Inactive Site)
Be sure to check out his "Reviews" page on his site. Many guys that have been in the game for a while, and attended a LOT of seminars, were just blown away by Riker's Log seminar.
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Introducing 1 on 1 Badboy workshops:
Badboy is a Croatian PUA from Zagreb who has spent almost 4 years in the game. He is also a respected poster in Mystery's lounge.
To see some of his stuff, search for posts by "croBadboy" on mASF or read one of the recent issues of Cliff's list.
Workshops are 1 on 1 for 3 days.
Each day consists of a 4-hour seminar and 5 hours of active in-field work. Each night you will make 20-30 approaches with your teacher to get field experience. 1 on 1 training makes it possible to answer any questions you might have and cover the most important aspects of the game in detail. Teachings are tailored to your level in the game.
The basic structure of the workshop is:
Day 1:
Social intelligence/emotional intelligence
How to dress, peacocking vs. dressing style
Alpha-male bodylanguage secrets
Attitude (inner-game) and getting a good seductive voice
Difference between emotional and party type girls
Social dynamics in clubs (2sets/3sets/lonewolves), know your city
Openers (sets with males vs. only-girl sets)
Day 2:
Difference between PUing alone and with a wing
Different tools for getting attraction
Power of contrast (bad boy & nice guy in one)
Stealing their frames
Passing sh*t tests
Push-pull
Isolation tactics(2steps)
Day 3:
AMOG tactics (the AMOG handshake, group set AMOG destroyers)
Boyfriend destroyers
Passing LMR
Secrets of good s*ex
How to manage a good relationship
More bodylanguage secrets
How to turn Coffee dates into f*ck-fest in just 1 hour
How to turn a 0$ date into a time she will never forget
Difference between PUing