The World’s Elite Operates the Way I do
This is Cliff's Private List, a free e-mail relating to seduction. Your contributions of articles, field reports, reviews and other comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from people commenting are separated by HHHHHH with each commentator's name preceding each comment. Comments from previous emails are preceded by an ">", usually in front of that commentator's name). Feel free to forward this email to all your friends and encourage them to request a free subscription by going to http://www.cliffslist.com and click on "Subscribe." You can also unsubscribe on the site as well. If you would like to be added to the free joke list (and mention if you do not want to receive the adult emails that come with the joke list), send an email to cliff@cliffslist.com. All posts you see here have been submitted by the author, or permission granted by the author to be reposted here. All emails with comments should be sent to cliff@cliffslist.com. If you are reading this as an email, you want to go to http://www.cliffslist.com and see the entire email, which includes Lair listings (see if there is one in your city or start one if there isn't), promotional notices, seminar notices, new product and website announcements - and lots more. This email has been edited and modified to allow it to pass through the various email filters - the unedited version is on the website.
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Wayne Ross one of the original seduction gurus, is holding a final "Seduction Blowout" sale of all his products which will end at midnight, New
Year's Eve. Apparently these products will be removed from the market for good afterwards. H e's packaged all six of his downloadable eBook and eleven bonus reports. He's offering these in
two packages, one which includes his audio cd's and one which doesn't. For more information go to http://www.seductionblowout.com/
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Final Words from Ross Jeffries (http://www.speedseduction.net/)
and Payton Kane (http://www.seduceandconquer.com/seducewomen): > Payton: Why? Because he liked us, plain and fucking simple! What a
> schmuck this Ross character is! He is your typical jealous hater
> Clifford who has tons of money and has tried the "tipping" thing
> but yet still gets denied entry and never gets VIP status because
> he looks like a schlep and has no idea how to talk to men!!!
> Hypnotizing men doesn't work now, does it Ross?
Ross: Ha ha ha; I don ¹t know, Payton, I don't have fantasies about
pleasing men the way you apparently do.
Payton: I got 2 words for you sport… Roberto Cavalli… go learn how to dress and how to present yourself and maybe people will take you a little more seriously.
And, I got some news for ya there… seduction is NOT about picking up women or getting laid. Any loser including you can do that! Seduction is about power and control. It’s about using the accomplishment of your seductions to build your own ego. You don’t just seduce women; you seduce everyone and everything in your life. Men and women included! "It is not enough to conquer; one must learn to seduce".
One thing you need to learn is that my program will not only teach you how to seduce beautiful women but it will also teach you how to become more successful in all aspects of your life. All the men in your life will respect you and all the women in your life will want and desire you. That’s when YOUR life will completely come together. After all, we are all chasing after that feeling. It’s the feeling that overcomes a man when he gets absolutely everything he desires whenever he desires it! I teach my students to get that feeling not to simply get laid. Again, you have a hell of a lot of learning to do!
> Payton: I see his type outside Miami and LA clubs all the time trying to pay ME to get
> them in! He IS NOT a man's man, far from it and the sad thing is,
> he knows it AND suffers secretly because of it. You can tell by his
> distinct anger in the way he responded to your report.
Ross: Payton, darling, I don't waste my time with clubs. The entire idiotic,
high-school mind-set that views stimulation and status as the keys to life
doesn't appeal to me.
Payton: Good excuse! LMAO… That’s because your shit doesn’t work on real women and because you can’t get in! And, I’m sure you’ve tried! And, let me guess… when you do get in, NOBODY pays any attention to you do they and it deeply hurts you, doesn’t it? I told you I can really help you become the man you’ve always wanted to be!
Ross: Ha ha ha ha ha. Dude, I suggest ECT or a Thorazine implant, right now!
Payton: LOL and I suggest a little thing called confidence there, Ross. Don’t be scared of the world. Let them be scared of you!
Ross: And do you really announce, "Ladies and Gentlemen, let the party begin, Payton Kane has arrived?"
Payton: Yes, I sure as hell do. Why? Because I BELIEVE it!!! I love who I am and so does everyone else. Confidence is addictive, Ross. Confidence is attractive. People LOVE to be around me because they feel good about themselves when they are. Why? Because, I make them feel good! They’re drawn to me because I have passion, enthusiasm, charisma, charm and tons of confidence. I don’t hide behind my website and classrooms like you do. I go out and LOVE to enjoy myself because life is too damn short baby! And, because I can have ANYTHING I want, WHENEVER I want it. It’s fucking great! (I can teach you how to do that too, little buddy)
> Payton: And, what's with the "PUTA and RAMARA remarks???He actually thinks
> that all those girls that we met and approached were hookers and
> prostitutes!? I guess the Dallas girls were all incognito right?
> The Columbian girls and the girls on our flight must have been on
> assignment too and every girl we met at ALL the nightclubs we went
> to must have all been there on one big fucking whore convention
> right? LMAO, give me a break! Is this guy serious? He can't be!
> This is his way of dismissing our trip and your results.
Ross: What results? The poster didn't get laid once. The "results" I see from the report is that you made asses of yourselves, got some female attention, and then the girls got tired and ditched you. Point, set
, match. See Cliffy's comments below.
I didn't see any reports of Payton getting hot and heavy with anything other than the Jack Daniels, right? So, these girls talked to Payton. DID HE LEAVE WITH A SINGLE ONE OF THEM? Hmmmmmm
Payton: You’re right Cliff didn’t get laid but he learned HOW to get laid, the real way not by begging. He learned how to be a REAL man not a poser trying to be what he’s not. I believe in Clifford. He’s a hell of a guy and I see tons of potential in him. Cliff came a long way in PV and when I’m done with him, he will be a brand new man and will probably teach you a thing or two.
And, BTW … what Cliff never told you because I never told him is that 2 women, the ones who pulled my zipper down, both asked me to go back to their hotel for a 3 some and I turned them down because I didn’t want to leave my boys at the club by themselves. I can have ANY woman I want WHENEVER I want it. I wasn’t down there to get laid, I was down there to help my boys see life through my eyes and believe it or not, I actually care about my students and want them to succeed in all aspects of their lives not just with women. (how remedial!)
> Payton: And, if he's such a stud, why doesn't he take his students to
> bars and nightclubs to put his speed seduction to the test? You
> want to know why Clifford? I'll tell you...
Ross: Where did people get this notion that you can only find worthwhile, hot women in nightclubs and bars?
Maybe that love of C2H50H has colored the lenses through which you view the world of women, Payton.
Payton: Oh, so now I’m drunk too huh? LOL @ U… too fucking funny baby. First, I "pay" for women and my way to attention and now I’m an alcoholic… LMAO at your jealousy and hatred! I love it baby! You are the epitome of a "player hater". Is that all you got, Ross? So, because I like to drink here and there, it makes me an alcoholic? So, I guess you never have a drink when you go out right? Oh, yes… that’s right… only when your wife TELLS you too. Doesn’t it hurt you deeply that you’re this great seduction master but in reality you ain't shit? I know, I know. Hey, I’m here for ya…
> Payton: 2. Because his shit does not work on modern day hot women and he
> knows it. They will eat a guy like him up and spit him out within a
> matter of seconds!!!
Ross: Ha ha ha. Well, I guess the king has spoken, yes? The results of thousands of my students just evaporated from the time stream because Alky Payton says it is not possible.
Dude, I suggest anyone who doubts check out my website:
http://www.speedseduction.net/
You can see guys give their real life, word for word testimonials, on video. Plus you can see me getting some women steaming hot, right on camera, with a few words and a few touches: NO BOOZE, NO TIPS, NO HOOKERS!
Payton: LMAO that’s pathetic? LOLOLOLOL I suggest you check out http://www.seduceandconquershow.com you can see over 10 different women getting naked for me simply because I TELL them to. I don’t have to play mind games and "patterns" with them. They should be so lucky to get a crack at a guy like me! I’ve gotten hummers live on air using my Seduce & Conquer principles. NO BOOZE, NO TIPS, NO HOOKERS!
A little bit of "interest" is useless Ross! Come on… EVERYONE is interested!
Again, you have soooo much learning to do…
> Payton: Right! Be a fucking man, Ross. It's pitiful. Take charge. Tell them what to do.
> That's what they want you to do, little buddy. Don't try to
> manipulate and con women. They are the lucky ones to be with you,
> you putz!
Ross: Wow. Is that what Daddy told you while he was beating you with that strap
with one hand while he was smacking Mom in the gob with the other?
Payton: Actually, my daddy was whipped little boy like you! My mom controlled every aspect of his life. (Sound familiar Ross?) LOL I thought so!
Ross: What an incredible fear you have of being kind.
Payton: Hey, I am very kind and sweet too! You’d be surprised. My motto is: "There is a time and place for everything"
> Payton: He doesn't ever get to do the things we did that 1 week that's why he's sooo angry.
Ross: I'm not angry; I'm entertained. I'm laughing at a human who is SOOO afraid
of being hurt and rejected by women, SOOO afraid of the kindness that is
slumbering and dormant in his heart, that he has to bully women into
submission lest he dare open his heart.
That's why you have to drink so much, PK. To medicate your pain. It's sad, really.
And..do the things you do? Like get drunk, stay out til 3 am? No thanks, buddy.
Payton: Bully women into submission? Are you lost man? Mentally challenged? Oh, sorry, that’s right… just jealous… I forgot. Oops my mistake.
I never bully women into anything! My approach is the other way around. They want me baby! Why? Because, I don’t want them. You need to learn a little something about human nature and more importantly about women… "When you want them, they do not want you. When you DON’T want them then they want you".
I'm, curious… how am I bullying them when I show them I'm not interested in them and I tell them that I DON’T want them? Exactly!
I really think it's time you order my CD’s.
And here you go again about the alcohol LMAO. You got nothing so calling me a "drunk" is all you can do to make yourself feel better. Pitiful!
> Payton: ...you have to show everyone that YOU are different than all the other sheep out there
> and not only do you have what it takes to enter their "elite club"
> but you can add to it.
Ross: Unbelievable. Why would I have any interest in a "club"? I'm only
interested in people and checking out if they are fun to play with or not.
Are you still in High School, PK?
Payton: When I referred to their "elite club" I meant their "group", not a nightclub or a bar!
Don’t you live in LA? Don’t you have any friends that are important or successful… celebrities, athletes, CEO’s etc? Oh, no of course not because they’re all fake and posers and losers right? Let’s be honest here… you insult and diss what you can not have and what you can not become because that is your envious way of dealing with it. You really, really need my help Ross! It’s sad… Hate is the reason why the world is in the shape it’s in!
Ross: What frame is that? It's a frame of push, bully, intimidate, and send out
the message, "hey babe, I hate you as much as you hate yourself. Now get
over here and swallow my load".
Is that how you want to walk through the world?
Why do you think PK drinks so much? Because, inside, his soul is dying from
this shit and he has to medicate himself to survive.
He's to be pitied, not followed.
Do you think this PK guy even enjoys sex? To him, it's dumping his load; a
discharge of excitement with NO intimacy and no connection.
The worst thing that could happen to anyone is to make this psycho's stuff
actually work for them.
Run, Cliff. RUN FAR AWAY.
Payton: Again, with drinking… LOL tooooo fucking funny baby! You forgot to mention hookers and prostitutes and oh yeah Franklin. LMAO!!!!!!!!
You still don’t understand a thing do you, Chico? You really don’t have a clue… Honestly dude, enough with the hate already, it's getting old. We understand you’re hurt. We understand you’re jealous. We understand that you’re an insecure whipped little boy who sees his future slowly slipping away to guys like me and DeAngelo. That’s why you lash out in anger. It’s driving you crazy inside. If you didn’t care, you wouldn’t have even responded to Clifford’s report but you did because it bothers the hell out of you. Hey, I understand… you’re a hater. I deal with people like you every day…. Hey, Cliff had a great fucking time in PV, plain and simple! Everyone had a great time in PV! You should come down for 2 weeks. I don’t think one’s enough.
Do me a favor sport… I don’t plan on speaking to you or responding to you anymore and I’ve only wasted my precious time here for Cliff’s sake. Get over the hurt and hate and come to terms with reality. You know what I teach is right and you know the world’s elite operates the way I do and it’s only killing you inside because you are nothing like us. You’re still stuck on hypnosis for fucks sakes! You’re just an average guy with TONS of insecurities that eat up at you every single day. Your whole life is a façade. Call me psycho, call me a drunk, call me whatever the hell your little heart desires, baby. Your words can’t phase a guy like me. I am soooo much above a nobody like you.
Thanks for coming out sport! LMAO!!!
Ross: Cliff, as you know, I teach you don't need to bully, beg OR buy a woman's
favor. Here is a recent edition of my newsletter that speaks much more
intelligently to this issue than getting drunk off your ass and acting like
a loud-mouth frat-boy at a beer bash.
Clifford's Comments:
Ross, You really have Payton wrong. You really had to be there because he does not bully, beg, or buy a woman's favour - this is really off. What he does is have a strong, indepth understanding of the most basic advice everyone is first given about women. And that advice permeates a great deal of what you teach and what pretty much what everyone else teaches - these are all variations on the theme of being hard to get. What he does is all part of the same underlying counterintuitive understanding of what works - this includes saying no, fractionating, being a challenge, push-pull, demonstrating higher value, takeaways, etc. etc.
The other thing that comes through is that he has one of the strongest, most solid mental state of confidence I have ever seen. You really learn from just listening to someone like that because he is so much more powerful than almost anyone else you will meet. A "loud mouth frat boy" is also a complete misunderstanding of his presentation - he comes across as a sophisticated player who is having a great time. He is the life of the party and you can see that others want to be a part of that.
One other thing that your comments also don't take into account is the intelligence of the person learning from him, who sees what he teaches and will inevitably take what works for them and integrate that into what they are doing if they feel comfortable with it and if they can.
The main thing I got out of Payton's teaching was that I was connecting with his frame - and, you know me, I am not a drinker (and really, Payton only got wasted once the whole week and this was considered by all of us a vacation - so I personally think he's entitled and I would not classify him as an alcoholic), and I am not someone who is going to abuse women. Be difficult, tease them, be a challenge, tell them how lucky they are and give them a lot of ego, these are all things in some form or other I am sure you do and teach as well. In fact, I think this is the essence of the email newsletter you sent me which is reposted below.
Ross: What he has is the APPEARANCE or imitation of confidence.
In reality what he looks to do is to intimidate and bully; to negate others
and play on their self-doubt and self-hatred. Those who knuckle in, he
continues with. Those who don't, walk away from him.
I summed it up well, "I hate you as much as you hate yourself. Now get over
here and suck me."
Didn't you see his raving response to me, like an abusive alcoholic?
You can't ignore personal psychosis as they permeate the world-view of the
person and invariably infect what they teach.
This guy HATES women, and deep down, hates himself and YOU are assisting in
promoting his sickness.
Clifford's Comment: Even if you are right - and Payton does have a compassionate side which may not have come through in what I wrote but is besides the point - the important thing to me is not to focus on the negative but to take what is useful for me and that I can learn from. Even if it is the appearance of confidence - the way he espouses it if you can adopt a good deal of it it's without question going to improve your life. Each person has to live with their own strengths and weaknesses - if deep down someone has problems but you pick up some valuable things from them, that is worthwhile. You can't fix other people - but you can work on yourself and do what you can to improve yourself. If it weren't for the opportunity to learn from those who are different and are able to get results that others haven't been able to get, we'd always remain stuck at whatever limits we have not been able to exceed.
Payton's CD's talk about the three kinds of women, and one of those is the ones with high self esteem so he is not only dealing with the weak who are vulnerable due to their self doubt and self hatred, as you say.
What I see is a guy who is really concerned to see his students improve and who has stuff that does work that, as I also said, underlying it all is not all that different from what others are teaching. To me, it's really just a question of of relating to one person's way of teaching over another's way.
Ross's Newsletter:
Why You Should Never Be "Nice" To Women!
Many years ago, when I was first making my tv talk show rounds, someone
asked me, "What do women want?"
I said something that nearly caused a riot in the studio audience. "Only an
idiot would care what a woman WANTS."
I paused dramatically to deliver the rest of it over the shouting that
erupted, "A smart guy only cares about what a woman RESPONDS TO!"
You know, I wasn¹t kidding about that. I meant it then and I mean it to
this day.
Remember:
There is what women SAY they want.
There is what women THINK they want.
Then there is what women ACTUALLY RESPOND TO!
Only that last one counts.
Now, in that regard, one of the more frequent questions I get is, "Does
Speed Seduction® require me to be "nice" to women? Your patterns sound a lot
like old-fashioned romantic "sweet talk" and I don¹t want to be pegged as a
sweet, "nice" romantic guy."
Let me say this right now: I have NEVER said you should be "nice" to women.
In fact, most "nice" guys are boring as bat-shit, self-pitying whiners who
are too out of touch with reality to see that what they are doing just
doesn¹t work.
And rather than change, they blame the women.
So let me draw an important distinction here:
There is "nice" which women do NOT favorably respond to.
And then there is "pleasant" which the sane, self-respecting women LOVE.
(I won¹t get into the women who want to be hurt, abused or punished. I do
not personally use nor will I teach how to use the language of abuse. You
can go to my competitors to learn that)
A "nice" man only knows how to be agreeable. He doesn¹t know how to
challenge women and he can¹t or won¹t set the lead. And he filters
everything he says through the belief that women are fragile little flowers
who need to handled with OH so much care lest they be broken. YUUCH.
One more thing: women don¹t trust his communication because he just won¹t
dare say anything that might offend them.
Now a pleasant man is something quite different: pleasant is power, held in
proper restraint and exercised with precision and elegance. A pleasant man
will speak his mind, set the lead, but he also knows how to listen and show
the proper degree of interest and respect.
He may put himself first, but he also genuinely cares for and cares about
his woman(or women). They are of great importance to him as long as they
treat him right and work within the rules that he has made very clear.
Most important: his woirld is his own. He never, NEVER makes the WOMAN his
world, around which he orbits. He does allow her to come into his world and
occasionally even be at the center WITH him.
When you get these distinctions you will move into a powerful life with
women.
You will never be "nice" again.
But you will also never have to bully, beg or buy.
Ross also sent me this second newsletter, which also iindirectly deals with his points relating to Payton:
When it comes to getting women, most guys follow (stupidly) the
law of the double 3's.
What do I mean by this?
I mean they engage in one or more of the following sets of 3:
1. The 3P's.
2. The 3B's.
Now, you are probably asking, "Ross, what in the fiddly fokk are
you talking about?"
Simple, Cedric. I'm talking about the 3 biggest mistakes in
attitude and approach that guys make, across the board.
Well, actually you could dispute me about the count.
But guys make THESE huge errors (and if you are making them, stop
it!)
Guys: Bully, Beg or Buy
And guys also, Punish, Push or Plead.
Virtually any mistake you can make, have made or will make with
women falls into one of these categories (with the exception of
not talking to them at all: that is called being frozen, and I
do have solutions for that to, which I have written about in
previous newsletters and will write about again another time).
Listen: it is a sad time for men in this culture. We are given
the options of either being a jerk-off who pushes women around,
a nice-guy-romantic "beggar" as portrayed in that ghastly
abortion of a film, "Hitch", or being a "success" who can buy
his way into choice and power with women.
These media-encouraged shit-choices can stall, stagger and stop
your love life faster than a case of the clap.
Yet, mostly, this is all we are offered.
My friend, please understand that there is a better way.
Let me introduce you to the 3 E's and the 3 L's.
The 3 E's
As I teach in the Speed Seduction® Home Study Course at;
http://www.speedseduction.net/, the keys to success
with women are to control your own state and capture and lead
their imagination and emotions.
To do this, you use the 3 E's:
Engage. Entice. Entrance.
You must engage her attention. You do this by being different
than most guys, by choosing those themes and topics of
conversation that open the deeper levels of her mind, and by
demonstrating understanding and authority in her world.
You must entice her. What does entice mean? The dictionary
says it means "lure; attract; tempt".
A big portion of enticing someone is not to give everything away
at once!
Remember, once you have her attention, you must not overload
her.
In the Speed Seduction Home Study Course
(http://www.speedseduction.net/)
I talk a great deal about how move back and forth between
trance type Speed Seduction language and regular "fluff" talk.
This way of speaking creates an expanded comfort zone on her
part and also a desire for more of the languaging that is
turning her on.
Finally, you must entrance her. Use language that captures and
leads her imagination and emotions and awakens the deeper, more
primitive, more desire-driven aspects of her consciousness and
mind.
The 3 L's
Listen. Lead. Lubricate
To be successful with women, you have to know how to listen for
when she is giving you useful responses and useful information.
If you can get a woman talking along the right lines, about the
right subjects, she¹ll virtually HAND you a road map to seducing
her.
But along with listening, you also have to know how to lead.
As I have said before, many times, a "nice guy" knows how to
listen, but he lets the woman lead. A jerk-off knows how to
lead, but he doesn¹t listen to his woman.
A smart guy listens AND leads.
And finally, you have to "lubricate". By which I mean, you have
to know how to create strong arousal in a woman WITHOUT RELYING
ON YOUR LOOKS TO DO IT!
There are certain language patterns I call "accelerators". You
can think of an "accelerator" as being the rocket fuel you pour
on the fire after you already have the fire burning.
You don't light the fire with it. But once you have it going,
you can make it explode into flames a mile high with the right
additives.
There are at least 4 different accelerator patterns in the Home
Study Course, but do remember, you don't want to start with
these. You layer them in, once you see a woman is strongly
responding.
Now look: I don't care HOW beautiful a woman is.
I don't care how much more romantic, social or sexual experience
she may have over you.
I don't care how many more friends she has or any other
"seeming" advantage.
The 3 E's and the 3 L's are incredible equalizers that swiftly
bring her right down to size. Or bring you right UP to her
level, however you wish to view it.
Outside of using the 3 E's and the 3 L's you really do have a
big fight on your hands. Maybe, maybe, maybe if you cross your
fingers, close your eyes, wish really hard and "throw your best
punch" (to use a metaphor) you might connect and get lucky.
Maybe if you keep on doing the old stuff you've been doing that
has never really worked for you, you will wake up one morning
and the rules of the universe that determine what women actually
RESPOND TO (as oppose to what you¹ve been taught or told or just
using to doing) will have changed and you will magically get
everything you want by just doing what you were doing all along.
I wouldn't hold my flipping breath.
Look, 2005 is almost over. This year is burnt up and dying.
Isn't it time you made the change and really began to get what
you truly want?
My friend, make 2006 your year. Better yet, start now and make
what is left of 2005 your year.
Engage, Entice and Entrance. Listen, Lead and Lubricate.
Right now. Not tomorrow. Now. Today. HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
PROMOS & REVIEWS SECTION (there are NO paid ads in this list and never have been. The "commercial" section is distinguished by the "--------------" separators):
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LAIR SECTION (Lairs are gatherings of PUA's of differing levels and talents that meet in different cities to discuss their experiences and to work together to improve their success with women). More Lair Listings can be found at http://dutchseduction.blogspot.com/ and at http://www.bristollair.com, as well as at http://www.seductionlair.com:
A YAHOO GROUP FOR THOSE RUNNING LAIRS:
If and ONLY if you are running a lair there is now a Yahoo Group for organization ideas for PUA groups. As each lair is different, this group lets us know what other lairs are doing. No seduction related topics are discussed, just organization ideas. To join please email RunningaPUAgroup-subscribe@yahoogroups.com and then email Nightlife at nightlife858@yahoo.com with an intro of who you are and what Lair you are running. You can also go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/RunningaPUAgroup/
HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE MONTREAL LAIR:
- Sunday January 8 at 8 pm is the next Lair meeting. For more info on joining the Lair (local only, sorry), email me. Out of town bros are welcome to drop in to meetings.
The Lair meetings are very insightful gatherings of guys interested in learning, improving, and helping others to become more successful in their relationships with women. If you are already in a relationship, and you continue to read these emails, you should realize that there is information here to improve and enhance your existing relationship - not only to create new ones.
Here is a list of other Lairs around the world (if you know of any others, please let me know):
MONTREAL JUNIOR LAIR FOUNDED!
Montreal Junior Lair: The Montreal X-Lair has been founded to help minors (who are not permitted to join the Montreal Lair until they are 18) get together and communicate. Lair applications would be sent to MontrealXLair@hotmail.com.
THE TORONTO LAIR
The Greater Toronto Area Lair Goes by the acronym for TOronto PUAS (TOPS) and has been going from success to success lately. There have been great talks by local PUAs who are regulars on Clifford's list, great outings, and membership continues to grow.
TOPs is open to men (and women) at all levels from Beginner to PickUp Artist. Just come with a desire to learn, a willingness to share what you know - and a commitment to test what you learn in the real world.
To join the Lair, send a request to: TO_Lair-owner@yahoogroups.com
If you have questions, you can contact the TOPS President, Smooth (cdnglenn@yahoo.ca) or TOPS Webmaster, Pluvio (pluvio69@yahoo.com)
NEW LAIR FORMED IN DENVER Denver Lair is a community for Denver/Boulder/Colorado area PUAs to wing, talk about the game and make friends in the community. If you're in the Colorado, join our yahoo-group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/denver_puas/
NEW LAIR FORMING IN RICHMOND, VIRGINIA
Hi, I'm starting a lair in Richmond, Virginia, the state capitol with a rather big scene. Currently all gamers in Richmond are forced to go up to DC, or down to North Carolina if they wish to attend a lair meeting. I would like to keep that experience at home, as we have many beautiful women in this wonderful city. Send an email to miikey723@yahoo.com if you wish to join.
EUROPE LAIR FOUNDED
Red Priest has founded the Europe Lair. You can find the description here:
http//groups.yahoo.com/group/europelair/
ISRAEL LAIR:
For the Israel Lair, Tironut 69, go to http://www.tironut69.com/"> http://www.tironut69.com
DUNEDIN, NEW ZEALAND LAIR FORMING
For all you Otago students (or campus orbiters) who think you got game! This will be the southernmost lair in the world. Run by an RAFC with a fair bit of bookwork and small experience- any skill level you want, just prepared to approach, talk and try out new stuff. Email me at beest.goes.roar@gmail.com, and will see if we can't get a local lair started. it's time to bring the game to the deep south!
WELLINGTON, NEW ZEALAND LAIR:
A new lair is starting up in Wellington, NZ. Primary focus will be regularly going out and working in the field. Anybody who wants to join constructive, like-minded people in persuingthe PUA lifestyle; email Matt on moxyfmac@gmail.com
TAMPA BAY AND ST. PETE, FLORIDA:
We started a new Lair in the Tampa Bay area. All styles welcome. e-mail us at paradigmaman@yahoo.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN GENEVA
We want to create a Lair in Geneva, Switzerland. It would be open to French and English speaking people living in Geneva and neighbouring cities like Lausanne and France as well willing to meet and seduce women. All skill levels and ages are accepted. The main task of the Lair will be field experiences on a regular basis. Contact Julien at : Julien72@bluewin.ch
NEW GROUP FOR CHICAGO
Chicago Wingman Meetup Group which currently holds meetings on the first Saturday of every month at 3:00 pm, the place will be disclosed to members once they sign up for the group. The website address is http://wingman.meetup.com/18/ - this group is combining with the Chicago Lair, whose contact was Eric at theprogen2003@yahoo.com Since they've just starting to hold meetings, they have a flexible format but as they get more organized they plan to have guest speakers. Anyone who knows a local PUA (not self proclaimed) is encouraged to invite him/ her over to share ideas. Please post all org issues under http://www.fastseduction.com/cities/Chicago
NEW LAIR FOR EDMONTON
*The Mastermind* The Mastermind is a highly exclusive Pick Up Artist Lair. Based out of Edmonton, Canada we assist guys who are serious and motivated to improve their Pick Up Artist game. We’re located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/edpualair/ You can also email: manofadventure@jasons-world.com
SAN RAFAEL, CALIFORNIA
The Seduction Lair is up and running in San Rafael, California. Contact activte@aol.com for more information.
PARIS PICK UP CLUB
Formed by a group of FRIENDLY motivated guys from all nationalities with some solid game. The Paris Pick Up Club (PPC) is where all the PUA's and RAFC's BROTHERS living in Paris can share experiences, wing with different people and practice techniques. The goal is to IMPROVE our GAME while having lots of FUN. Since the purpose of the PPC is to practice, in order to join, future members must be available to SARGE regularly. Contact alfaztec@yahoo.com
SALT LAKE AREA SEDUCTION LAIR
We are an expanding group of guys that are into the material by David DeAngelo and his Dating Gurus, of DYD. And we want to use this group to get/give advice, to share experiences and the results. And to meet up with other guys, so we can go out and work on our game together. A group that is more than just pick up lines, but wants to challenge their inner/outter game, etc... For info, contact LOVEStobeHATED@aol.com
BELGIUM: NL Lounge at http://dutchseduction.com/"> DutchSeduction.com
An independent platform for the phenomenon known as "seduction" in the Dutch language with members in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, Belgium and points beyond. Founded in 1999, we are one of the first international groups dedicated to seduction. Our purpose is to help members meet one another and share information and experience. Write to passie at passie@gmail.com Visit our Website: http://www.dutchseduction.com/"> http://www.DutchSeduction.com
NETHERLANDS: NL Lounge at http://dutchseduction.com/"> DutchSeduction.com An independent platform for the phenomenon known as "seduction" in the Dutch language with members in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, Belgium and points beyond. Founded in 1999, we are one of the first international groups dedicated to seduction. Our purpose is to help members meet one another and share information and experience. Write to passie at passie@gmail.com Visit our Website: http://www.dutchseduction.com/"> http://www.DutchSeduction.com
NEW LAIR IN NEW ORLEANS
There is a new Lair in New Orleans and here is the info:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NewOrleansPlayers/ - MIKEALW@HOTMAIL.COM.
Description: This group is for guys in the New Orleans area who are studying the Double your Dating material by David DeAngelo. This group is to get and give advice, to share your experiences and results, and to hook up with other guys so you can go out and work on your game together. Anyone in the New Orleans area is welcome from inexperienced to PUA's.
NEW LAIR IN SINGAPORE
The Singapore Lair is a community for guys interested in improving their skills in meeting and attracting/seducing women. This group is mainly for guys who live in or travel to Singapore, although PUAs from other countries are also welcome. Membership is restricted to doers only -- you must be in the field and have real field experience. No armchair theorists allowed. To join this group, email singaporelair-owner@yahoogroups.com with your name, background and experience.
NEW DALLAS LAIR FORMED
Dimitry has started the Dallas Wingman Meetup Group, a Dallas-Metro Seduction Lair
Website: http://wingman.meetup.com/6/
HUNGARIAN LAIR FORMING
Hungarian Lair (Budapest) invites all visiting and local people for a great time of sarging in Budapest clubs and streets. We field test MM, SS, RSD, Maniac Plan and various other stuff. Contact us at redpriest_hu@yahoo.com!"
NEW LAIR FORMING IN ITALY:
Our goal is to have a lot of FUN! Why did we create a Lair? To keep in touch with each other and to rock the Italian scene, we want to live like rockstars since we know we DESERVE IT. We have had enough of all the boring guys and loser boyfriends out there that are making women's lives a nightmare when they are waiting for US, the playboys. Join us and we will share with you a lot of secrets that you need to know to totally transform your life life and get more choice not only in life but with every relationship. In order to learn you must be willing to go out with us and try new stuff asking to yourself: "What is possible? What if I get the results I only dreamed of and then even more than that?" Send an email at italy_lair@yahoo.com to join.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN NORWICH (UK):
The Norwich lair has been setup for RAFC and PUAs from East Anglia (UK) who wish to go sarging in in Norwich City Centre. The group is open to everyone who is serious about fieldwork in the Norwich area, and membership is free of charge. Norwich is about 2 hours from London by train. To join the listsend an email to norwichlair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.
OHIO LAIR FORMED:
An Ohio Lair has just been created for ASFers located in Ohio. I'm hoping to have regular sarging meetings at different cities in Ohio and regular guest speakers. Any ASFer in Ohio who is interested in joining please email me an intro of yourself to philonous03@yahoo.com.
VIRGINIA/CAROLINA LAIR GROUP
The VAC (Virginia Carolina) Lair is a community for Virginia and Carolina area PUAs to talk about the game, make friends in the community, and meet up with wings in the area. Current members are located in the Charlotte, Blacksburg/Radford, and Raleigh/Chapel Hill areas. While those from outside this area are encouraged to participate, most events will likely be held within these areas. The VAC Lair is open to all levels from Beginner to PickUp Artist (PUA). Just come with a desire to learn, a willingness to share what you know, and a commitment to field test what you learn. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vaclair/
NEW YORK CITY LAIR: The contact for the NYC lair is admin@nyclair.com. You can also visit their website at http://www.nyclair.com.
SECOND NEW YORK LAIR STARTED:
With the help of a few friends, Strongbad has started a lair in NYC. Send an email to either strongbadpua@yahoo.com or
NY-PLAY-subscribe@yahoogroups.com to join if you live in the NY area.
BLOOMINGTON LAIR STARTED:
The Bloomington, IN lair for guys interested in attraction/seduction. This is a group made for guys that want to discuss techniques, inner game, make
new friends, and meet up with wings in the Bloomington area. If your interested in subscribing email: b-lair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
AUCKLAND, NEW ZEALAND LAIR
Anyone living in Auckland (New Zealand) are welcome to join this bad ass lair. It's consantly growing, we have guys with all sorts of experience levels with diverse styles of game. We SARGE regularly. So if you're up for some fun e-mail us at akpuah@gmail.com"
SCOTLAND LAIR:
There is now a Scotland Lair. It's the SSs Group and we have a website at http://www.scotlandlair.com/"> http://www.scotlandlair.com that we JUST put up. The group is currently yahoo based and we would like to start taking in any members who may or may not have heard about us yet. To join, they can visit SSs.scotlandlair.com which will redirect them to our mailing list, or email signup@scotlandlair.com for more instructions on joining. The website is starting to grow big as it's seen on ASF. We have our own discussion forums. We also have a photo and VIDEO gallery where PUAs can upload their own photos and videos and browse those of others!! We are also giving out free scotlandlair.com email addresses to contributors.
BRAZIL NOW HAS A LAIR:
To join please send an email to Brazil_P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN TOKYO:
The Tokyo lair now has a discussion board for discussing the finer points of the Japanese scene, guys looking to meet wings and discuss all things nanpa can email tokyolair@hotmail.com for an invite to the board.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN ARIZONA:
We have formed a lair for guys interested in pickup and seduction in Arizona. It is open to anyone in the state, regardless of specific city, or skill level. If you are interested in joining, send an email to cramias@mail.com and you will receive an invite to our private forums.
ANNOUNCING SOUTH FLORIDA P-L-A-Y LIST:
The South Florida P-L-A-Y list is a community for Miami, Ft Lauderdale and Boca-Palm Beach area PUA's to meet up and improve their game in the field.
All methods are welcome. Please understand that our primary focus will be field work. To join, please contact Zuzu atSouthFlorida-P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
THE INDIA LAIR
We are a small but dynamic bunch of aspiring PUAs in India. Guys of all skill levels are welcome but MUST be serious about actually getting out in the field. Please register at the site. New registrants will be verified to weed out KJs. Visit http://www.indialair.com/"> http://www.indialair.com
BRISTOL LAIR
These guys have a truly great site, with a lot of terrific resources. Go to http://www.bristollair.com.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN DALLAS/FORT WORTH:
If you are interested in joining, please send an e-mail to dfwseductionlair@yahoo.com.
NEW LAIR IN GERMANY!
The name of the group is PU_Meetings_Germany. It´s a field oriented group and we welcome everybody from all over Germany to join and attend our meetings which are held in different cities all over Germany. For further information write to: pimpstylez@hotmail.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA:
A new lair called the O.C. Player's Group is forming for members of the seduction community in Orange County, California. The group will be a place for everyone from aspiring to accomplished PUAs in "the OC" to post their pick up experiences and successes and meet occasionally in a constructive and non-critical environment. Everyone is welcome, but you must be serious about becoming a PUA and the emphasis will be on getting out into the field and reporting on what worked and what didn't. Armchair pua/theorists need not apply! Contact pua1day (Kurt) for further information at o.c.playasgroup@sbcglobal.net or to join at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocplayasgroup/
NEW LAIR FORMING IN HARRISBURG, PA:
No keyboard Junkies, only people who are willing to go out in the field and just get better at the game. All levels are welcome. Contact Gaurang at
NEW SYDNEY LAIR STARTED!!!
Monthly meetings with guest speakers. All levels welcomed only prerequisite is that you are in the field. To join please email ta_justin@hotmail.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN OKLAHOMA CITY:
Lu is looking to start a lair in Oklahoma City, OK. He would like to invite anyone who's interested in going out sarging to join, & help him get the lair started, please respond only if you are interested in Going Out & SARGE, or Doing Field Work, contact him at ljp97001@yahoo.com.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN PHILADELPHIA
Looking for a group of guys interested in a Lair in the Philly area. All experience levels welcome but must be willing to actually go into the field. See philadelphiaLair@yahoogroups.com or email me at myaroch@yahoo.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN AUCKLAND, NEW ZEALAND:
We have already met-up with couple of local guys and SARGE 2-3 times a week. We are willing to meet-up with more guys to share the PU knowledge and experience to improve our game. Those of you who are interested contact us at sexualpredator@em-wave.com"
KANSAS CITY LAIR FORMING:
Looking to get a group of like minded guys together to share ideas and most importantly work the field in Kansas City MO. Write eclypz@hotmail.com and include "From Cliff's List" in the title.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN CONNECTICUT:
Open to PUAs and RAFCs who live in CT who are interested in or have real field experience as opposed to keyboard theory. Send an email to djsemtp00@aol.com with your background and experience.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN OTTAWA:
Ottawa Lair yahoo group created http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ottawalair/
NEW LAIR FORMED IN BOSTON:
The Boston Lair is now open. The lair is a forum for brothers in the Boston, Rhode Island, and upper New England area to get together and meet others in the game and to build an active community in Boston and the surrounding areas. To subscribe to the Lair, email b-o-s-lair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN NORTH CAROLINA:
A group is interested in forming a lair in the North Carolina area. Members include attendees of the Charlotte Sargeathon in November 2003. Meetings may rotate through different cities (possibly outside North Carolina) depending on interest. Contact Jason at thee_jacas@yahoo.com with LAIR in the subject line for more information.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN POLAND:
We've formed a LAIR in Poland http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pflayers/join so if anybody is interested in joining it contact me at PFLayers-owner@yahoogroups.com or subscribe at PFLayers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. It's unmoderated formum where You can excange your views on the game and meet with wings in your area.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN LAS VEGAS:
Nightlife who runs San Diego is helping a few guys set something up in Vegas so a new group is now forming. To join please send an email LV-P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com be prepared to give a brief intro.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN ITALY:
Milano will be headquarters. All Italians, Swiss, Austrians, etc are welcome to join. Would like to set up infrastructure for weekly or biweekly weekend sargefests, both day and night. Goals include: hosting seminars/workshops of the world's best PUAs, sharing the best techniques for Italian hotbabes, sarging together, sarging trips to Roma, Firenze, etc. We need to get a solid core of about 10 guys to really get it going. All levels welcome. Email italypua@yahoo.com for info.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN ATLANTA:
I am interested in forming an Atlanta Lair. If interested, please send an e-mail to jospades54321@yahoo.com
NEW LAIR FORMING MILWAUKEE TO MADISON:
A Lair is start for the Milwaukee to Madison, Wisconsin area. Emphasis will be on field sarging and developing a network of like-minded "wings" to develop and maintain a secret society in this area. We will SARGE from the college bars of Madison to the redneck fishermen bars of Lake Country to the cheesy working class discos of Milwaukee. All interested parties (male or female) please contact g66@outgun.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN MONTERREY, MEXICO:
The style I use is C&F from DYD, but am willing to try other styles, and will be very focused in going out and learning. Anyone interested in forming a Lair here in Mexico just write to me: javimartinez50@hotmail.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN HONOLULU, HAWAII:
Showing those surfergirls a good time since late '03. Drop an e-mail to lair808@hotmail.com for more info on building sandcastles.
NEW LAIR IN CHINA (MAINLAND, TAIWAN, HK):
A list for China based PUA has been set-up. Discuss PU tactics/experiences in China, and meet and practice with other local PUA. Contact Angel Caido on el_angel_caido@lycos.com and join the group @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PUA-china/join
NEW LAIR FORMING IN OSLO:
The Oslo Lair just opened. If you are interested / want to join, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/asf-Oslo/ and apply. We will start out with monthly meetings, on the first Sunday of every month. The first meeting will be held December 7th, at 18h00.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN LOS ANGELES:
The LA List, PLAY (Player's Los Angeles Yahoo) Group, is a community for Los Angeles area PUAs to talk about the game, make friends in the community, and meet up with wings in the LA area. The PLAY List is a community that is open to the public and is a place where you can share your views on any methods in an unmoderated (except for deletion of spam) forum. Contact Papa at papa@realsocialdynamics.com and get on the mailing list by emailing p-l-a-y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.
WASHINGTON, D.C.:
DC Seduction, formerly known as DC Area PUAs, has been around since 2000. We are over three dozen brothers drawn from the FastSeduction, SS, and the Lounge communities. Contact Minger at minger@dcseduction.com
SEATTLE LAIR FORMING!
I would like to find out how many are interested in forming a Seattle Lair. Contact theloinking1@hotmail.com to get on their mailing list.
THE AUSTIN SOCIETY (AUSTIN, TEXAS)
The Austin Society is a group of friends, within the greater Austin/San Antonio area, improving their attraction and relationship skills through field work and study. If you are interested in joining and contributing to our group, email us at theaustinsociety@yahoogroups.com for more info. Open-minded gentlemen of all skill levels are welcome."
NEW ORLEANS LAIR FORMING:
Joseph is looking to set up or find a "mastermind group" of likeminded people and he is in the south MS area about 1.5 hours drive from New Orleans or the MS gulf coast. He would like to invite anyone in MS/LA/AL within driving distance to participate, and to help him to get it started. Contact him at: veuxdeux@yahoo.com
NYC:
Contact Marco, marcorulesinfinity@yahoo.com and get on their mailing list: NYCTSF-SUBSCRIBE@YAHOOGROUPS.COM
SAN DIEGO (TWO GROUPS NOW!):
1) The San Diego lair is now opening their doors to potential new members for the next 30 days. If interested in joining the San Diego lair please contact Nightlife at nightlife@playboylifestyle.net
2) Pete M., and Nightlife have formed another seduction group in San Diego. This is to benefit guys who are interested in Pick Up who live or frequent San Diego. It is a group that is modeled after the LA P-L-A-Y list. To join send an email to SD-P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com It is open to everyone in San Diego.
SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA LAIR:
We have a very active group in the San Francisco area dedicated to improving their game. All skill levels and types of game welcome. We have meetings once every 6 weeks or so, and numerous SARGE outings. We also have top PUA's share their knowledge with us when they come to San Francisco. Our list traffic is low but valuable. Lots of field reports and feedback. To join send an email to sf_morpheus_x@yahoo.com, and mention you heard about us on Cliff's list.
TOLEDO, OHIO - METRO DETROIT:
I am interested in starting a Lair in the Toledo, Ohio - Metro Detroit Area; Those interested should email Jay at TSAFriend@hotmail.com
HOUSTON:
http://www.houstonlair.com Members of the Lair meet regularly, actively apply and improve their skills and are eager to teach success. Contact: xmlenigma, bashev can be reached at xmlenigma@yahoo.com, rnkayab@hotmail.com
MELBOURNE, AUSTRALIA:
The Melbourne Lair is now fully operational. Currently we are meeting once a month, with members hooking up to go sarging between meetings. All styles, ages, and abilities are welcome. To join us contact Craig at cnoodles@bigpond.com.au
Melbourne Lair: The place, an open shopping center in the heart of the city. I sit down at the food court and wait for familiar faces to arrive. I picked the location of this months meeting of the Melbourne Lair, Its great to have it in an informal place like a food court, sets a nice relaxing mood. Once everybody arrives we push some tables together and start the meeting. We discuss peoples sticking points and offer suggestions, we tell stories of crash and burns and success stories. We just shoot the sh*t, it f*cking great to meet up with like minded people. While telling someone my smurf routine, I see two guys get up from the table and start walking away, I glance back later to see them sitting with a girl, these guys are approach machines.
The meeting goes on way too f*cking long, everybody's got a story to tell, advice to offer, we could talk to each other for days. I feel like this is Ocean's 11 and we are planning the big heist. There is the leader, he started the group. The guru, he's an encyclopedia of info. There is the joker, he can't stop negging and teasing everyone; f*cking Canadians. There's the approach machines, they can't follow the conversation because they are too busy following the nearest piece of ass. There is the SSer, the grease boy and of course Brad Pitt. We all exchange numbers before leaving and make plans for sarging during the week. If there is a Lair in your area, join it, if there isn't, start one of your own. You will not regret it.
AUCKLAND, NEW ZEALAND
Philip has started a LAIR for those who live in the upper North Island of New Zealand (Auckland, Hamilton, Tauranga, etc). There are already 4 of them who have been meeting regularly in Auckland, and they welcome others to be in touch. SSer's from elsewhere in New Zealand are also welcome to email to share experiences and form a network. Contact: philip@toeb.co.nz
MIAMI:
Contact Jerry at trudelle@email.com to attend.
LONDON, ENGLAND
The London Seduction Society http://www.thelss.com
AMSTERDAM:
Contact Big Bear http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nllounge/
The main purpose of the Lair is to help Wingmen to get in touch with each other and "in field" action! Membership open to anyone who lives in Holland or Belgium, or is a frequent visitor. However membership policy is strict.
PERTH, AUSTRALIA:
The Perth lair is a small group of people who SARGE regularly several times a week. At the moment, I'm actively looking for new members to join us on our outings (the more the merrier!). Anyone wishing to go sarging with us any day of the week should email me at tnejad@hotmail.com to meet up.
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Blake Richards has put out a new ebook that looks very interesting. Check it out here: http://www.social-mastery.com/Game.html
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Real Social Dynamics WORKSHOPS:
I highly recommend that you check these guys out. They are in the final stages of producing their long-awaited e-book as well as a redesign of their website.
Anyone interested in attending their seminars and/or workshops, email Papa at papa@realsocialdynamics.com with the subject "WORKSHOP" and mention that you heard about it from Cliff's List.
Real Social Dynamics (http://www.realsocialdynamics.com/ ):
Learn what works in seminar, and then jump directly into the field and watch the instructors demonstrate and teach it live. Stop feeling the fear of not knowing what to do ...
Individualized Bootcamps
Sign up and get more info here: http://www.realsocialdynamics.com/):
More info also available by sending an email to: support@relsocialdynamics.com
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The Venusian Art Society is dedicated to the pursuit of Relationship Mastery.
We have started a Yahoo group in each city our members are located in Denver,Houston, and Atlanta. You can register for membership by going to Yahoo and joining V_A_S_D or V_A_S_A or V_A_S_H. Be sure to include your experience in the Venusian Arts as well as what you hope to get out of them.
This forum will serve as a way to discuss any and all issues related to the Venusian Arts, from cold approach to relationship management. We welcome all active participants in the Venusian arts from any of the various schools such as MM, SS, DYD, etc..
This will be a controlled forum so feel free to post anything you want as long as it is directly relatable to the Venusian Arts. This is not a classified board or a place to advertise.
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New Dating/Seduction Seminars & Workshop in Montreal by DOC!
Doc, who many of you know from his great interview here last time and all too rare but outstanding posts on this list, on Mystery's Lounge, and the Montreal Lair, is bringing his seminars and speed dating events to Montreal. Previously they were mainly held in Toronto as part of the Learning Annex, Doc is now setting it up here and plans to hold events on a monthly basis.
The website is http://www.lifeskillsnetwork.ca. Registrations available on the website. The events are Dating Secrets for Women, a 3 Hour seminar (cost $50) and Dating Secrets for Guys; a Guide to The Art of Dating (also 3 hours and $50). There will also be a speed dating event in the evening for $50. You can contact Doc by email at seduction.school@sympatico.ca.
The fall calendar has a full weekend seminar and makeover. He also has 3 new books coming out this fall under the SETNA Dating Manual Series. Volume I (to be released this week) deals with the psychology of attraction, first impressions, and working on your inner game, Volume II (coming in September) deals with tactics and strategies to go from meeting her to dating her, and Volume III will deal with Managing Relationships.
Full-weekend Dating Makeover workshops will be offered soon (including a half day with a personal stylist, video tape analysis of body language, and live practice sessions with dating coaches beautiful women who will give the guys on the spot feedback on how they come across and what to improve). If there is a group of 10 or more guys interested in a seminar (or 5 guys for a workshop, he would consider making a special trip to their city).
This is a great opportunity to learn from a real master.
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Mystery Method Workshops:
What method are YOU using?
If you are opening groups (or sets: 2-sets, 3-sets, mixed sets, etc) of people with the 3 second rule by stacking indirect openers (including false opinion openers), false time constraining (discovered by Style), demonstrating a higher value to your romantic interest’s peer group with high octane DHVs while she obliquely observes (locking her into her own set with a prop), and simultaneously performing false disqualifiers (which include negs) on her with the intension of disarming her peergroup and then isolating her to rebuild her self-esteem once you have enough IOIs (indicators of interest) so you may share in a comfort and trust building effort and then build in a jealousy subplot to solidify her attraction for you, you are using The Mystery Method.
If instead you are only approaching women who are alone, you are greatly limiting your options and quite likely alienating your target's friends. Do you want a lonely woman (why is she lonely?) or a woman who already has a healthy social lfe? Truth is, healthy women have healthy relationships ... sometimes good friendships with guys. Like it or not, you will have to meet these women with men in her group.
Women of beauty are rarely found alone. Don't miss the opportunity to meet and attract them WITH social proof from her very own peergroup. Group Approach Theory (GAT - created by me) improves your options and increases the chances for attraction DRAMATICALLY over Single Approach Theory (SAT).
The guys who are GREAT in this game KNOW that they can improve their game ten-fold through seminars and personal coaching in-field workshops. Think about this: Why did so many of the greats who use my GAT (Style, Tyler D., MTL_PUA, and others) take my seminars and workshops? What started them off to greatness in this game? Can you see the co-relation may in fact be a causation?
If you have NEVER taken a seminar or workshop before, it's time to finally reconsider. They are life-transforming. I have conducted dozens of them. I am currently conducting a bootcamp and will accept only 5 people. Workshops and seminars were for many of the greats THE difference between great success and failure. If you are ready, give me a call and sign up. If you have any questions, give me a shout at 323-219-8696 (Mystery) because email sucks, or visit http://www.mysterymethod.com/"> http://www.Mysterymethod.com and email me your #. We need to talk. Man to man.
NEW: Attraction Magic
Content: In the Attraction Magic Seminar, Mystery will teach you the magical illusions most useful in picking up women. In addition to rune casting and sleight of hand, he will teach you to vanish coins, rings, jewelry and other small objects. You will also be taught how to move objects without touching them and how to "read" minds. As I'm sure you can imagine, magic is a superb DHV. Captivating and impressing an entire group of people goes a long way in raising your social value in the eyes of women. If there is one thing that Mystery knows more about than women, it is magic.
http://www.mysterymethod.com/schedule.htm
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Swinggcat has published a new ebook which you can check out at his website at http://www.realworldseduction.com. Those of you who remember his outstanding posts here will be anxious to get this as soon as possible. Highly recommended.
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Ross Jeffries Speed Seduction Seminars (http://www.speedseduction.net/)
Advanced Speed Seduction® Seminars - All Seminars Updated!
The first 2006 seminar is scheduled for LA, Jan 20, 21, 22. Look for more details soon, or call Dr. Yates at 903-482-1034. Price is $1,195, but it's $895 if you sign up by December 15th. This seminar is ONLY open to those who own a Speed Seduction Home Study Course so you better hop on line and buy one now if you don't already have one and plan on attending.
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Major Mark (http://www.trucor.com):
Send mail to Cassi@trucor.com with questions or comments about his seminars.
Call to register: 419 882-8543 or go to http://www.trucor.com
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Double Your Dating LIVE! NEW Seminar! We will be reviewing all of the new DYD products here soon, including the monthly interview series in which David DeAngelo interviews "Dating Gurus".
You can order all your DYD products and register for seminars through this link: http://www.doubleyourdating.com/cl
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Threesomes! The Secrets To Making Your Fantasy A Reality
A home study course by David Shade http://www.masterful-lover.com/3somes.html
If you are like most men, you have had a fantasy about a threesome with 2 hot bi-sexual women. Everything you could possibly need to know about how to have threesomes is in this special information packed course.
The FIRST And ONLY, step-by-step guide written for men, featuring Pickup Artists and couples who are actually having threesomes all the time.
I GUARANTEE you that you've NEVER been exposed to, or had real Threesomes explained to you in the way I've done it here in this course!
It doesn't matter if you are in a relationship currently or not, every situation is covered here...
- The 3 scenarios to make a threesome happen (pick the one that works BEST for you)
- How to have threesomes as part of a committed relationship (and have it bring you closer together)
- The real truth about women and bisexuality (This will SURPRISE you)
- Proven methods to deal with your woman if she is on the fence about having a threesome. (You will have her begging you to make it happen)
- 4 vital things you MUST know about bisexual women (if you want to be successful having threesomes)
- How you can tell if a women is bi-sexual or not. (It's not what you think)
- The single biggest obstacle most women have to doing a threesome with their man. (when you can deal with this, the rest is easy)
- The foolproof way to bring up the subject of threesomes when you
have been with a woman for a long time. (This one is so powerful I almost didn't release it)
- The one thing you can say that shows a bisexual woman you are NOT like all the other guys (Do this and they might even fall in LOVE with you)
- Also, actual field reports of David & his girlfriend picking up bisexual women
- And much, much more...
The bottom line is that by learning how to have threesomes... YOU can live life fully and enjoy being a sensual person through expression of healthy sexuality in a mutually beneficial way.
Free samples of the course video online, check it out at http://www.masterful-lover.com/3somes.html
The classic 'David Shade Manual' goes online
You've done all the hard work, found the HB, attracted her, managed to get her back to your place, now you need to skills in the bedroom if
you want to keep the attraction going. Being able to give her the sexual experience of her life is the final tool in the seducer's
toolkit, so make sure you make the most of this opportunity. David Shade, as you are no doubt aware, is well known in the seduction
community as the master of bedmanship skills.
His masterpiece the 'David Shade Masterful Lover Manual' is now available for the first time online at http://www.alphalover.com/cmd.php?ad=145730"> http://www.alphalover.com . Highly
recommended, it is possibly the only book on the subject you will ever need. Compulsory reading.
http://www.alphalover.com/cmd.php?ad=145730"> http://www.alphalover.com
"The Seduction End-Game"
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Payton Kane's Seduce and Conquer (http://www.seduceandconquer.com) CD disks present Payton's unique, dynamic style of meeting and seducing women. His methods are very natural and are the epitome of the original advice you get - tease and take away, play hard to get, etc. Definitely worth checking out, but not for everyone.
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Due to popular demand , Learn from the resident Sexpert How to be Outrageously Successful With the Opposite Sex and How to naturally let the game come to you. An intensive 1 on 1 personalized bootcamp taught to you by the East Coast's #1 Personal Dating Coach and Mentor. For more info go to http://www.youaresoinmyway.com
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NEW PRODUCTS FROM DAVE RIKER
Have you ever wished that Speed Seduction® was taught in a more structured way, piece by piece, subject by subject, in a way that allows you to really
understand it, really KNOW it and really USE and APPLY it even better than before?
If so, check out http://www.daveriker.com/ssmanual/
Riker's Seduction Log - Live Seminar
If you always wanted to hear more field reports, with full details, and even some recordings, then this seminar is for you. Dave Riker (Ross's co-trainer for those of you who don't know him) spends about 3 hours each evening going through his personal Logs and notes and provides full reports on SARGEs, many from start to close (finish). And that's a full "close" by the way, not just an email address or phone number!
The seminar is held in conjunction with Ross Jeffries Speed Seduction Seminars. Ross's seminar is during the day (and Riker presents at that too) and then Riker does his seminar in the evening. And even if you do not attend Ross's seminar you can still attend Riker's.
For full details see the web page at: http://www.daveriker.com/logseminar/track/cl.htm (site is either inactive or no longer relevant)
Be sure to check out his "Reviews" page on his site. Many guys that have been in the game for a while, and attended a LOT of seminars, were just blown away by Riker's Log seminar.
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Introducing 1 on 1 Badboy workshops:
Badboy is a Croatian PUA from Zagreb who has spent almost 4 years in the game. He is also a respected poster in Mystery's lounge.
To see some of his stuff, search for posts by "croBadboy" on mASF or read one of the recent issues of Cliff's list.
Workshops are 1 on 1 for 3 days.
Each day consists of a 4-hour seminar and 5 hours of active in-field work. Each night you will make 20-30 approaches with your teacher to get field experience. 1 on 1 training makes it possible to answer any questions you might have and cover the most important aspects of the game in detail. Teachings are tailored to your level in the game.
The basic structure of the workshop is:
Day 1:
Social intelligence/emotional intelligence
How to dress, peacocking vs. dressing style
Alpha-male bodylanguage secrets
Attitude (inner-game) and getting a good seductive voice
Difference between emotional and party type girls
Social dynamics in clubs (2sets/3sets/lonewolves), know your city
Openers (sets with males vs. only-girl sets)
Day 2:
Difference between PUing alone and with a wing
Different tools for getting attraction
Power of contrast (bad boy & nice guy in one)
Stealing their frames
Passing sh*t tests
Push-pull
Isolation tactics(2steps)
Day 3:
AMOG tactics (the AMOG handshake, group set AMOG destroyers)
Boyfriend destroyers
Passing LMR
Secrets of good s*ex
How to manage a good relationship
More bodylanguage secrets
How to turn Coffee dates into f*ck-fest in just 1 hour
How to turn a 0$ date into a time she will never forget
Difference between PUing in different places (small towns, big cities, colleges and the difference between certain clubs and the girls who go there)
Badboy says he can write a pages of what he does with guys because it's not just PU. He opens their EYES to LIFE, to understand how to live successfully.
For more info, email Badboy at badboy@playboylifestyle.net. See Badboy's new website: http://www.badboylifestyle.com/"> http://www.badboylifestyle.com
You can book your workshop on: http://www.badboylifestyle.com/?badboy=workshops
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Thundercat's New "Seduction Lair"
Get the latest News, Rumors, Tips, Tricks, & Analysis on the Pick-Up and Seduction community! The site is updated daily with lots of free and exclusive content.
Also a good way to keep up with things without having to navigate mASF. Drop By TSL today! http://www.seductionlair.com/
The Art of Approaching: Learn to meet ANY woman, ANY time, ANY where. The most difficult hurdle for most men to overcome is that of the initial Approach. This comprehensive eBook gives you over 35 unique Openers, as well as a step-by-step roadmap to help overcome your fear of approaching forever!
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Lance Mason ("Sensei") & Wilder Pick-Up 101 (info@pickup101.com):
More than just workshops, PickUp 101 provides focused programs that begin weeks before you arrive with our home study materials, our 3-day skills intensive & field work training, and lasts long after you leave with follow up coaching calls and access to the PickUp 101 private forums.
PickUp 101 provides you 'warp-speed' training in a sequenced progression to take you from complete newbie to getting laid like a rock star with our proven step-by-step programs.
In our current programs you will learn the latest in:
- Attraction Skills
- Night Club Game
- Day Time Game
- Direct AND Indirect Methods of Approach
- Deep Rapport Skills
- Effective Day-2 Seduction Tactics
- Dressing For Your Pickup Artist Identity
- Multiple Relationship Management
- Advanced Pickup Tactics
- And much more...
Our programs are structured to build on each other and NEVER repeat material.
Our instructors stay on the cutting edge of what works, and we won't lock you into any one way of doing pickup. We find what works BEST FOR YOU, and provide you with all the training and coaching you need to succeed.
We also provide monthly free seminars in San Francisco, and free distance learning teleseminars.
Call us toll free for more information.
PickUp 101
1459 Powell Street
San Francisco, CA
1-877-PICKUP-9 (toll free)
The replay of the last teleseminar is available on the PickUp 101 website: The Truth About Direct And Indirect Game From a teleseminar featuring Lance Mason ("Sensei") of PickUp 101 http://pickup101.com/August4/replay.html
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New street seduction CD course from Croatia
mr.ice - Croatian seduction master finally released his seduction audio
CD "Streetmode".
Backed by 5 years of extensive research it contains step-by-step directions on how to seduce girls in normal - everyday environment.
Each part uses structured approach i.e. you are given an introduction that describes specifics of each seduction environment together with steps that are neccesary for you to feel comfortable before you start with the seduction.
You are then guided through the seduction process - from intial approach to conversation and later to kissing and having sex with a girl.
for more information: http://streetmode.atspace.com
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Archangel:
I've got something I think you & your readers would be interested in.
It's called NLP PLUS and you can see it here: http://nlp-plus.com/"> http://nlp-plus.com The entire system is based upon Breath, Body, Mind, Motion. It's a system of Confidence and Persuasion, and is meant to be easy to use with little memorization.
There's a demo lesson here: http://nlp-plus.com/Demo/ConfidenceDemo.asp
The Rapport structure is here:
http://nlp-plus.com/Demo/rapport.htm
The rapport structure is very simple, and extremely effective. All you have to do is the BBMM structure to gain rapport with someone.
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Juggler is back!
Charisma Sciences, led by longtime seduction authority Juggler, focuses on developing a man's natural game. Our clients usually
- aren't connecting with women despite all efforts,
- are sick of using routines and material that isn't their own,
- want to understand vibing skills that will work in *any* situation.
We are now limiting the size of our events to four students with two to three instructors (including Juggler, of course), because we're not just giving a guy some lines and throwing him out there. We get to know our clients and teach them social vibing techniques, based on their own personality traits, that apply to women, men and groups.
There's just no other way to prepare a guy for the breadth of interactions he's going to face in his life, seductive or otherwise.
It's the difference between flash game and solid game. We don't teach men how to impress their friends and thirty other people with some jokes or tricks - we teach them how to consistently get numbers that will not flake, and closes that aren't forced - by building a solid foundation for every interaction.
Our Charm School bootcamp runs Friday to Sunday in Ann Arbor, MI and
other cities worldwide. To learn more about what we teach, you should check out our website, where we have free weblogs, podcasts, compiled articles, and the three-year-in-the-making Juggler eBook. See http://charismaarts.com/. Looks very interesting!
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Giuseppe Notte:
http://www.seduction-and-dating.com/seduction/ - Giuseppe Notte's ALL ABOUT WOMEN: The Encyclopedia Of Seduction EOS is a new product covering the topic of seduction from A to Z. This 100 pages e-book is ideal both for newbies and more experienced guys willing to improve weaker points of their game. The book is split into 6 bigger parts:
1. Being a woman Learn how women think and understand the "logic" behind their actions.
2. How to be the Man Part two is about the attitude. You can attract women just with your presence, by becoming a "real Man". Avoid the most common mistakes men make and learn valuable tips on body language, dressing and improving the overall quality of your life.
3. The first step: meeting girls Overcome your fear of approaching women and open girls anytime, anywhere without excuses. With the powerful techniques in the book, you won't have to memorize any "canned" routines or NLP patterns.
4. Second step: from the first date to having sex Get from the first date to the girl's bed easily. Don't be stressed anymore on when and how to kiss your girl or where to take her. You will learn step-by-step instructions for each phase.
5. Third step: keeping a relationship The secrets of keeping a long, rewarding relationship, or multiple relationships at the same time. You choose.
6. Sex Overcome your problems, improve your sexual life, become multi-orgasmic and turn into an irresistible lover.
For more information, visit http://www.seduction-and-dating.com/seduction/.
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CEIC: Sickboy and Playboy (Mike and Stephen from the DYD interview series) have launched "Cutting-Edge Image Consulting" ( http://www.ceimageconsulting.com/"> http://www.ceimageconsulting.com ). They offer exclusive, one-on-one programs in New York City. Also, they offer a 7-Day Audio Program which covers the following topics:
- A groundbreaking 3 point structure that serves as a roadmap to any successful interaction.
- The two most powerful qualities women are drawn to, and how you can learn to use them with shocking effect
- We go over the subtleties of female psychology and why it is absolutely necessary to do THREE things when meeting a new woman…do you know what they are?
- We disclose the secret of "hooking" - what it means and how to do it with shocking efficiency.
- We uncover a key language skill that can build fascination in any woman, ANYTIME. This skill is critical when building connections, which lead into relationships.
- Devastatingly effective conversational openers and lines.
- How to bait ANY woman into a conversation so that within minutes she is dying to know YOU.
- We list the EXACT places to go where you can meet women with the greatest probability of success. Stop wasting your time in the wrong venues for YOU.
- We teach you how to be the center of attention and the life of the party within SECONDS of meeting complete strangers.
- Learn which conversational topics are fascinating to women. Never be boring again.
- We provide a clear definition of relationships, and why some work and some don't. We give you clear-cut ways to improve all of your relationships TODAY.
- There are three different ways to engage women in conversation when you are socializing. These three are based on the three different environments that exist socially. Do you know what they are? We teach you on Day II of the program.
- We teach you the FASTEST way to begin conversations in ANY environment.
- Learn how to counter the most common rejection phrases from women - NEVER be shot down again.
- We outline the aspects of a successful mindset, and we then lead you through a clear and concise exercise to attain that attitude for yourself.
- MASTER the art of flirting.
- We instantly improve your body language and tonality with simple, clear advice never heard anywhere before.
- We give you a SIMPLE way to ALWAYS be relaxed and comfortable before approaching and engaging women in conversation.
- We have an entire CD which guides you through a step-by-step process for creating a timeline that helps you get back on track in EVERY area of your life. We have a solid system for bringing you in touch with what success means to you, and then developing a timeline - a plan - for success. Our aim is to help your dreams become a reality.
Check out their website today at: http://www.ceimageconsulting.com/"> http://www.ceimageconsulting.com
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http://www.songsofseduction.com/"> http://www.songsofseduction.com
A full rock music album created for the purpose of seduction is finally available! These 10 songs have been arranged to create rapport, capture and lead her imagination, start the attraction process, and ultimately GET HER IN THE SACK! State of the art NLP combined with hypnotic but rockin' music leads her through the seduction process for you. Best of all, it looks like a regular pop-rock album and sounds like the best alt rock on the air! The lyrics have been painstakingly written by NLP programmers, and the music was recorded by world-class recording artists, using the latest in persuasion techniques together with rhythmic emotional influence technology.
Get yours today, and get laid tonight!
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http://www.datinghelpformen.com/"> http://www.datinghelpformen.com is a website designed by a guy who at one time had limited success with women. He posts what he learned there, from his mistakes and errors to his successes. They will be dealt with step by step so that you can repeat his achievement without replicating the miscalculations. This site is for beginners but if any of you pros would like to join the site and help out that would be great (and of course in return those of you with products will get great link placement)
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Check out the 'supermarket of seduction' at http://www.seductionpro.com. Lots of interesting products to look into.
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Impact Interaction (http://www.impactinteraction.com) @ London
Angel Caido, RyobI and Lockstock have been running Workshops and Seminars in London since the beginning of the year. The workshops are small in size (trainer : student ratio of 2:1 as max), so students get personal attention on sticking points.
The workshops include:
- Basejump: For approach newbies who need to get internal game and basic attraction skills in gear
- Field Interaction: To perfect your bar/ club and street performance
- Solid Game: Everything good except lots of flakes? Few end results? End to end game sticking points covered…
For more information go to http://www.impactinteraction.com or contact them @ contact@impactinteraction.com.
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Setting The Standard For Seduction Workshops
"Free your mind."
Those are the words Morpheus said to Neo in the blockbuster hit The Matrix, a film which delves into deep philosophical questions about how the world around use keeps us from reaching our full potential as human beings.
Today, there are millions of men in the world who have bought into their own personal "matrix." They're hampered by society and their own self-limiting beliefs.
Desperately, they seek help in the form of online self-help message boards, books, CDs, Videos, and even workshops and seminars.
Have you ever asked yourself: why do these people keep buying these self-help products, but never seem to get anywhere with them?
Why do people spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on a workshop designed to help them learn to pick-up women, and then go home without any tangible results, only to fall back into their old habits again?
It is because they are given the knowledge, but not taught HOW TO USE IT!
Too often, you are held back from your true potential because you are not given the supervision you need to achieve your goals. Like riding a bike, when you first start, you need someone beside you to help give you balance, before you can ride on your own.
No seduction coaching service has ever offered this kind of personal attention to helping you succeed.
Until now.
Robert Torrey, aka Nightlife, the former head of the San Diego Lair and former instructor and manager for a prominent Seduction Workshop enterprise, has formed a new company designed to help give the personal attention students need to break out of their own Matrix and "free their minds." His partners in this exciting new endeavor come from a mix of well respected and seasoned companies.
The instructors are:
Cameron Teone, who has gone by the moniker "TheOne," has taught as a guest instructor for Real Social Dynamics and other seduction workshops.
Seth Parker, who has gone by the moniker "Dreamweaver," who had also taught as a guest instructor for Real Social Dynamics and other seduction workshops.
Ranko Magami, who goes by the monkier "Shark" for the Badboylifestyle Crew.
Dave Riker, of Speed Seduction fame, is also onboard merely as an advisor.
The exciting new Company they have formed in called Fidentia, which is Latin for confidence and boldness.
For the first time, this group of experienced and qualified ladies men have combined a MIX of EVERY MAJOR SEDUCTION STYLE around to form a workshop experience that is completely new and original and will raise the bar of what you should expect out of such an experience!
The company was formed after Robert Torrey began testing this unique form of workshop with a lucky, select few in San Diego, while Cameron and Seth participated as guests instructors. After the amazing initial results, Robert Torrey continued to test his new method with a group of eager students in Miami, and was able to surpass the results he was achieved in San Diego!
Seeing the amazing response and subsequent success of this new style of teaching, Ranko (aka: SHARK) was excited to leave his position as an instructor with another well known workshop and join Fidentia and all the potential it has to offer.
Workshops will be held worldwide. Robert Torrey as well as Dave Riker live in San Diego. Seth Parker and Cameron live in Los Angeles. Ranko Magami lives in Croatia, an Eastern European Country. They are already getting ready to train a group of qualified instructors in Europe and Australia so the company will be in every major corner of the globe.
The company was formed for a variety of reaons. Some of the instructors felt that they could no longer teach for certain organizations as they agreed neither with the methods being taught, nor the lack of professionalism they had with the planning and structuring of their student's learning experience.
This new company has empowered Shark, Nightlife, Dreamweaver, The One, to produce a TRULY UNIQUE workshop that caters to the individual student, offers personal coaching, and handles every student's unique problems and difficulties. Fidentia is dedicated to helping their attendees grow, as well as dedicated to oustanding customer service and professionalism not seen before in the workshop community.
If you've tried the rest and have been met with more frustration and still haven't achieved your goals, maybe it's time to try the BEST.
Free your mind, and your hopes and dreams will follow.
To contact Fidentia visit their website at:http://www.fidentia.org/cgi-bin/t.cgi?a=408276
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Flirting Weekend London -
Learn how to develop immense pulling power in every aspect of your life!
"Flirting isn't just about impressing the opposite sex and picking up a partner, it's about getting on with people", says Peta Heskell, the founder of Britain's only Flirting Academy. "Great flirts do it with everyone -flirt that is!" Flirting is a way of interacting with people that makes it fun and easy to connect with them and makes them want to be with you. Become super sexy, develop your