You and I are so disconnected
This is Cliff's Private List, a free e-mail relating to seduction. Your contributions of articles, field reports, reviews and other comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from people commenting are separated by HHHHHH with each commentator's name preceding each comment. Comments from previous emails are preceded by an ">", usually in front of that commentator's name). Feel free to forward this email to all your friends and encourage them to request a free subscription by going to www.cliffslist.com and click on "Subscribe." You can also unsubscribe on the site as well. If you would like to be added to the free joke list (and mention if you do not want to receive the adult emails that come with the joke list), send an email to cliff@cliffslist.com. All posts you see here have been submitted by the author, or permission granted by the author to be reposted here. All emails with comments should be sent to cliff@cliffslist.com. If you are reading this as an email, you want to go to www.cliffslist.com and see the entire email, which includes Lair listings (see if there is one in your city or start one if there isn't), promotional notices, seminar notices, new product and website announcements - and lots more. This email has been edited and modified to allow it to pass through the various email filters - the unedited version is on the website.
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
DID YOU MISS THE GREATEST ASSEMBLY OF PICK UP ARTISTS, LADIES MEN, & DATING EXPERTS EVER? You are in luck!!
The Cliff's List Convention DVD's are NOW available. Go to www.cliffslistconvention.com and get your copy. Don't miss this outstanding record of a magical event where the best in the World pulled out their "A" games and presented the highest quality information seen anywhere. Featured speakers include Mystery, Style, Tyler Durden, Dave M., Steve Piccus, Will, Cameron Teone, Dr. Alex, David Shade, Doc, Toecutter, Zan, Brent, Bishop, Patty, David DeAngelo, Lance ("Sensei"), and more, including the first Threesome Panel! The reviews have been phenomenal, all confirming that this is the product to take your game to the next level.
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
JC:
An aspiring 56 year old's PUA
report
In the achievement department I don't really have much solid results to report, such as making out or getting laid – yet. However looking back how I started I am really proud of what I have achieved so far and where I am now. In less than 5 months I became a completely changed man. I really didn't have anyone to even talk about this ‘pick up’ stuff let alone a mentor nor a wingman to hang out. All I had was a bunch of ebooks by the so called Gurus.
As you may have guessed I was a complete loser, wussy, needy, and was afraid to approach beautiful women (especially young and attractive ones) let alone talking or dating. Now I can tell you that I can approach a good number of attractive, young women.
This morning I was at a Dunkin Donut shop to pick up coffee. In line there was a young guy, tall, well groomed, not so bad looking, standing behind me. So I started some small talk. Then I saw a young, kind of round, and super hot girl picking up something from the counter. So I asked the guy, "Did you see her? What do you think of her on a scale of 1 to 10?" His answer was, "12." I expected 9 or 10, but 12 was kind of unexpected, but I liked his answer. When the girl turned around and passed us on the way to the door, we both saw that she was really super hot. In a split second I thought of approaching her myself (I felt an urge to go after her), but I was so much in my head thinking about picking up the coffee and on top of that the counter girl asked me what I wanted, so I was distracted – and I lost her. Damn! I knew I could have talked to her and number closed.
The reason why I am telling you this is that the young guy, even thought he thought the girl was a 12, didn't do anything about it either. I know why he didn't do anything. He didn't know what to do, what to say to her and how to say it.
I am a 56 year old man, short, half bald, skinny, don't drive a fancy car, not rich, and foreign born (Korean-American), and speak English with a heavy accent. Still I am pretty sure I could have gotten her number had I approached her. How would I know? Because these days I am having a lot of fun with many, many girls who are in their late teens, 20s, 30s. I can tease them, make them laugh, and sometimes make them feel strong attraction to me.
So I think anyone can be a good PUA if he tries hard enough regardless of his age, looks, income, ethnic background or whatever. Now I truly believe that my self is the only limit. Which means that I can decide how far I want to go and what I like to do with women.
It all started with a one ebook on woman and dating, buying David D’s "Double Your Dating" five months ago (October 12th to be exact), and in such a short period of time I became a completely changed man. How much have I changed? Actually not much. All my coworkers, friends, relatives do not see any noticeable changes in me. However, the inside of me, when it comes to women and dating, the change I have made, or I am experiencing, is beyond my wildest imagination. I never thought it possible that I would be one of those pick up artists.
Funny thing is that at that time I was really desperate and miserable and I thought I was the unhappiest man alive and every day was nothing but a torture – emotionally speaking. I was tying to save my relationship with my ex-girl friend. I felt like I would do anything only if she would come back to me. So I did research and read every book on relationship and marriage, but I couldn't bring her back. Then one day this simple ebook opened the door for me to the seduction community.
Before coming into the community, walking up to a woman and striking up a conversation, let alone with an attractive woman, a total stranger, was like something not possible, something which didn't exist for a guy like me. Why on earth would such a young and attractive girl want me? That was my thought. But now I think I have become the kind of guy that these young girls want to hang out with, or even enjoy and have fun with over their wussy and boring boyfriend or male friend. After interacting with quite a few young girls I learned that most of the women (young or old alike) are usually bored and desperately looking for some fun. Now I just walk up to almost anyone – young or old (preferably attractive) – without much thinking (sometimes I feel like a machine). Actually I now enjoy it and look forward to such an opportunity, and I enjoy every minute of it. At the moment it's the most fun and exciting game (well, I guess almost) in the whole world.
I don't go out deliberately to just pick up girls, but whenever I go out I change my course slightly and put aside some extra time to check out a nearby coffee shop, supermarket, bookstore, hair salon, or whatever to look for an opportunity. Last Saturday I went to Philadelphia (I live in Central New Jersey) to visit one of my customers with a prospect and a coworker. After grabbing a sandwich at Subway for lunch I walked into a hair salon to check it out. An attractive hair stylist (about an 8.5) in her mid 20s walked over to me. Her name was Monika.
Monika: Can I help you?
JC: Are you sure you can help me? (smiling)
Monika: (Somewhat taken aback) I think so….
JC: Are you good?
Monika: Well I guess...
JC: Alright whatever. I am not going to have a hair cut today, but I was just curious about your price. (Monika told me it was 13 dollars – a rather low price.)
Then when I was just about to walk out, a funny thing happened. I noticed a young AFC in his mid 20s was sitting on a bench waiting for Monika. I struck up a conversation with him and asked him if he had a girl friend. He said no. I busted him by saying, "What’s wrong with you? You should go out to a shopping mall or something and pick up a cute young chick." And he said that’s why he is having his hair cut. Then I noticed that his sitting posture was that of someone who is typically wussy and needy – all the wrong body language. So I told him to stand up and showed him a few things. Then I taught him a few openers including Style’s ESP routine and how to make an eye contact. Of course the subject was how to pick up girls. And the guy, Derek, said "Wow, you should write a book or something." (Inside I laughed at myself thinking that I am the one who’s been reading all those ebooks like crazy.) In the meantime Monika, who was working on a guy was only 6 feet away and was listening with great intensity to it all (I didn't know that time). As I walked out, I told the young guy that I would come back and show him how to pick up using Monika.
When I came back in about 20 minutes, Monika was finishing up on his hair. I gave a compliment to Monika. "Hum, It is a nice work. He looks cool." She smiled and thanked me.
As Monika stands behind the cashier’s desk and Derek was standing by my side after paying her, I started Style's mind reading routine using a dollar bill to Monika.
JC: Do you believe in ESP – the mind reading stuff? I can read your mind, you know.
Monika: What I am thinking?
JC: A lot of nasty thoughts. How much do you wanna bet?
Monika: For what?
JC: Will you bet a dollar? If I read your mind correctly, you have to give me a dollar. If I can't, I will give you a dollar.
Monika: No, I am not going to bet a dollar.
JC: (Pulling out a dollar bill from my wallet) OK, I am going to use my dollar, but you have to hold it for a second (I handed over my dollar bill to her and she holds it). To read your mind accurately, you have to put some of your energy into the money.
JC: (After taking the dollar bill back) Wow, it’s hot. Monika, you are bad. You are having a lot of steamy thoughts. Monika I cannot deal with something like this at this moment. Think of something else.
Monika: Like what? A number? (She heard my number guessing routine)
JC: No, not a number. Whatever. (I fold the dollar bill.) It took a lot of practice, you know. Give me your hand. May I see your palm? (As she opened up her palm, I slightly touched the love line with my index finger – and I could tell she felt an electricity. (Isn't that interesting that such a tiny touch can make a woman aroused so much?) Hum, you have a troubled love line. Oh, whatever. (I put the dollar bill on her right hand.) Say ‘ring’ three time.
Monika: Ring, ring, ring.
JC: (Picking up the phone) Hello…
Monika: (Bursts into laugh)
JC: Do it again
Monika: Ring, ring, ring…
JC: Hello, it’s you again. How many times have I told you I can't go out with you. Don't ever call me again (Smile and hang up.) So, now give me a dollar (teasingly)
Monika: No way.
JC: (To Derek) Now it’s time to ask for her phone number.
JC: (To Monika) Do you have a telephone?
Monika: Yes
JC: May I see it?
Monika: (A little hesitant and shows me the store’s remote phone)
JC: No, not that one. Your cellular phone.
Monika: I have a boy friend.
JC: Oh, yeah? Are you talking about marriage between you and him?
Monika: No.
JC: Then, that means you're gonna break up with him sooner or later. Wouldn't it be nice to have a back up just in case? You never know. I could be more fun, you know.
Derek: (Feeling very uneasy with Monika’s boyfriend shield and the kind of talk I was engaging) I think that’s enough and I have to go (what a loser!)
JC: Alright, time to go. (To Monika) I'll see you some other time (I walked out of the store and didn't go back because even if I close, I had no intention to do anything with her because she is good 2 hours away from where I live.)
Note about number closing:
Asking for her cell phone (machine) instead of her number was Cliff’s suggestion based on Brent's idea and I was trying it out for the first time in the field. It is more direct, playful, unique and fun. When Cliff first told me (actually emailed) about the idea, I thought it was too much and doubted that it would work. But now after a little field testing I think it is by far the best and most effective number closing technique ever. Someone suggests punching in her number in your cell phone on the spot, but I believe this technique is far more advanced and effective than that. Try this out. It worked beautifully for me and I am going to use this for every number closing from now on. What a neat and powerful weapon. With it I feel like million bucks. This technique shows more confidence, and you know what, it is much easier to get a girl’s number that way than awkwardly asking, "What’s your number?" or "Is there any way we can continue our conversation some time in the future?" And the greatest beauty of all of this technique is that a girl doesn't have a chance to reject you. You are in total control since you have her telephone. Also I find girls think that way is much more romantic.
About the inner game or confidence issue:
When I first started to learn about seduction, the first ebook, David D’s "Attraction isn't a choice" was such a revelation. It was like a newly found world to me. But it took some time for the ideas or concepts to sink in. For me it took a lot of thinking and practice in the field to have an actually feel of the confidence issue and its effect.
Then about two months ago I heard Cliff’s interview on David D’s "Interview with Dating Gurus." There Cliff talked about how he overcame his confidence issue – the inner game. Before listening to him my understanding about the confidence issue was vague at best. Before then I only wanted to learn more techniques and lines which I could use immediately. Cliff’s comments were a major turning point for me how to see this whole seduction game. Later on I read more ebooks by others, such as Carlos Xuma, Rion Williams, Dr. Alex and others, who all talked about the utmost importance of confidence or being an Alpha male. These helped me further to strengthen my understanding of the importance of confidence.
Last Sunday I went to the Unitarian church in my town for the first time to expand my social network. I stayed there for 2 hours for the service and lunch and when I came home, I was surprised at myself. How much I have changed. Although I didn't pick up any attractive women there, but I think I successfully implanted a strong attraction in quite a few attractive female members. I didn't do much actually.
- I just made strong eye contact with 3 attractive women in their 30s. I could see their faces almost blush when their eyes met with mine (I was smiling at them). I know people in church are always trying to be polite, but the women’s reactions were not just out of politeness. There was strong attraction there and I could feel it. I am kind of moving slow here. After all it was a church.
- The female preacher was highly intelligent although she was not very beautiful (about only a 7). Anyways, after the service I walked over to her and simply told her, "You talk too much, think too much (because the sermon was a highly politically charged and complicated one), but this time I'll make an exception." And I added lowering my voice, "You have to teach me how to make a speech sometime." Even before I finished the sentence, she jumped at me and tightly hugged me (How dare she without even my permission). It was a very strong hug. I don't think she knew what was happening. And after that her eyes followed wherever I went.
At the kitchen I told a women who was cutting the cookies, "Don't even think about it. That’s not my favorite." Immediately her face brightened up and a happy and content smile and pleasant surprise expression spread all over her face. Later on she asked me my name (I didn't ask her name.)
This method Cliff suggested to me is far more Alpha and effective than any other methods I have ever heard or used. In my opinion it shows much more confidence and is very different. I think girls never have seen a guy, almost a total stranger, ask for their telephone (not the number), grab it, and punch in his number, and ask them to call him.
Anyway today I successfully used this phone number close. (Yesterday I used the same technique, but couldn't close. But the situation was a little different from today and the girl in question was in 2 hours away from where I live, so I did it not really seriously.)
Today I asked for her phone, "Do you have a cell phone?" "Yes" "Let me see it." She pulled it out, but pretended to be a little hesitant (but glad as hell) and I just grabbed it and punched in my number. "Call me." And I walked away.
About a month ago I accidently bumped into a set of four girls inside of a local supermarket. They were waiting for their shift. I teased them, busted them, and told them "I can read their mind." One tall blond girl (about 9) became extremely interested in me because of what I was doing – the teasing, ball busting, joking, etc. –and she giggled and pretended to be "shocked" when I told one girl "You should go to Hollywood…to be an ass model or something."
How I got involved with them was when I asked them to watch my cart (it was my opener) because I had to go to the bath room and they happened to be at the entrance. I told one girl that if they do a god job (watching my cart) I would reward them with a mind reading game. And I threw a few teasing and ball busting lines at them. One of the girls, a short one, asked me how old I was, and I told her 105.
When I came back, all were waiting for me and all their eyes were on me.
JC: "Why are you guys all standing here?"
Girls: We are waiting for you.
JC: What for?
Girls: You said you will read our minds.
JC: Oh, Yeah? Sure. I'll do it, but hey, it takes a lot of effort you know. I'll do something else.
I used Style’s five simple question and wrong answer piece (showed at your convention) and the girls were all in to it. However, the tall blonde one who was very eager to get my attention had to leave the set because it was time for her to go to work.
After the 5 questions, I left the set to do my shopping. Before I left I turned around and asked the short one (who also wanted to get my attention badly) about her email. And then I finishing my shopping.
When I was checking out, I saw the two girls (the two tall and attractive ones) at the cashier. I whispered to the ear of the one, "I think your energy level is 8, which is very high." And she immediately turned around and told the other blond (who left the set earlier) "He says my energy level is very high." Then the tall blonde one asked with a cute showing off gesture with chin’s up posture "What about me?" I told her, "She and I are connected (pointing the other one), but you and I are so disconnected that I can't read it." Then I walked away.
Today when I checked out with my groceries, the tall blonde girl was the cashier. First I didn't recognize her, but she upon seeing me immediately recognized me and said, "Oh my God, you are the one who’s supposed to read my mind." And described "what happened" the other day in detail because I deliberately made a puzzled look – I don't remember kind of look. She even said, "You don't remember me? That hurts me."
After my payment was done, I told her, "OK, I am going to read your mind today." (Her name is Jenna.) I decide to do, again, Style’s dollar bill routine, which Style showed at your convention.
But she refused to give me a dollar so I used mine. I did that on the other girl who was working with her standing by the check out area (the one who was one of the 4 set where I teased her about becoming an ass model). Besides it was hard for me to the routine on Jenna while customers are waiting in line and she’s working. As I do the thing with other girl, I saw Jenna’s face changed immediately. She looked extremely jealous. So I whispered to the other girls ear, "She is jealous." And she repeated that with a loud voice to Jenna. "He says you’re jealous."
When I finished the routine, the other girl busted into laugh, and described it to Jenna. During the routine I saw Jenna’s mind was only half on her work – scanning grocery items – but on me and her buddy.
While her friend was still giggling and almost screamed as she described what I had done to her, I asked Jenna if she had a cell phone. She pulled it out from her apron and looked at her machine (while customers are waiting) and pretended to be reluctant. "I don't know if I can trust this." I just grabbed her phone, took a few steps back, and punched my number in. Jenna and her friend asked me who I was calling. I said "Me." I handed the phone to her friend and said "Call me" (not to Jenna directly) and walked away.
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Ecstasy:
Ramblings from the heart (part 1)
Some background about me
I'm keeping this short and to the point. I'm a student of life, and I mainly learn from Steve Piccus and Hypnotica's stuff. I don't use "direct" or "indirect" methods for attraction, I simply share a wonderful experience with a woman and we allow ourselves to be open to each other's heart. That's all you're hearing for now, I have a newsletter to write (see below)
Have you considered the following recently?
While talking to guys in the community, I find there is a large population of members who have lost the idea of what the idea of getting started in this area of your life is all about. For me, it's not about "getting laid", my "score", or competition with other males. I'm sure some of you reading this may cringe.
"But Ecstasy, isn't dating all about f*cking, techniques and lines?"
For some, it is... for others, it's about more. I'm not saying that everyone is like this, it just appears that most are. Maybe I am mistaken, maybe I'm crazy... but for me, getting this area of my life is about this:
It's not about completing my life, it's about enriching it. You are enough without women. Yes, that's right. You are enough without women.
You are enough without women, techniques, one-liners and bullshit. A relationship shouldn't make your life complete, it should add to the quality of life that you have. If you want a needy, dependency based relationship that the present day musicians make millions off singing about, that's fine. You're just not there yet, and I'm not going to judge you for it.
If you enter a relationship with the idea that it will complete your life, you're setting the frame that something's missing, and that you have holes in your boundaries. A woman will sense this instantly, maybe later on if you're a damn good liar. Because the world is your mirror, you will attract those you truly seek. If you view relationships as something to fill in the missing parts of your life, that is coming from a needy, insecure standpoint; thus you will attract needy, insecure women. Let's think about that for a sec... needy, clingy, insecure women... who wants that?
Now, let's move on to these "tactics" used by some great PUA's. I am not knocking down the great PUA's who use some of this material, I'm simply saying that there's an easier way to enjoy life. Am I saying that you are a bad person if you manipulate, lie, or cheat on women? No, but that doesn't mean I'll trust you. Your own morals are for you to decide, and your own actions are for your to implement.
Think about the concept of "negs". The idea itself is interesting: lower the target's self esteem a bit, so that she sees you as an "equal". Hmm, this sounds like someone who is doing this is coming from the frame that they are not enough, and must make the target feel less than they are in order to make themselves feel better and thus attract the female. Now if you bust their balls in a funny, playful way, that's a completely different story. Your intention is what matters. Does this mean that everyone who intentionally tries to lower someone's self esteem to raise their "value" an insecure person? Probably, only you can say for sure.
Frankly, the idea of trying to make a woman feel like a piece of garbage doesn't appeal to me. I'm far more attracted to the idea of sharing a wonderful experience with a beautiful woman with a beautiful soul than wasting my time with an insecure woman who must constantly be fed fear and the risk of loss or hurt to keep her around. Think about how badboys do their game. Have you ever met a jackass who is with a beautiful, attractive woman who has her s*** together? I can't recall ever seeing that, if anyone else has, drop me an e-mail and enlighten me.
If the woman you were with was of high-self esteem and of high character, a neg would not be necessary to attract her. Basically being confident in yourself and in sharing a wonderful experience in her would be more than enough to mutually engage each other in whatever experience may arise.
Now let's explore the idea of DHV stories. Personally, I think they're great... if they actually are true FOR YOU. In a recent newsletter from a local pick-up guru (Note: I am not in any way affiliated with that guy), he brought up a great point: would you really compromise your integrity for a blowjob from a Barbie? Some would, others would not. Are you a bad person for doing so? No, but you're probably of low self esteem. Back to DHV stories. As many of you know, the concept of a DHV is to demonstrate high value. Now stop, and think about that. The purpose of a DHV is to consciously show that you are of higher value than her.
OK, that sounds interesting. If you really were of higher value than a woman, why would you want to sleep with her?
Read that again, and continue on. If you were of this "higher-value" (note the parentheses for extreme sarcasm) bulls***, why would you spread your semen with anyone of a lower quality? Interesting, isn't it? What ever happened to people being equal? We're all equal my friends. The only thing that separates you from me is the physical body and what we do with our 24 hours in our day. That's it. There is no such thing as a "higher value" than another, it's comical bs tactics designed to make people feel better about themselves. If you truly were of high self-esteem, you would not tell a story to prove you are of a higher-value... you would tell it to enrich your life and/or the life of another. Maybe you wouldn't, and that's fine. You're just on a different path, and I respect that. It's time to drop this whole "higher value" crap and realize we are all equal individuals that are unique. It's a paradox, read about "individuation" by Carl Jung (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individuation). When you accept that you are equal, you stop playing these games, and the concern of who is a "higher value" stops. If a woman thinks she is better or more than you, than nothing you can do will change her mind. Don't even bother. A woman who believes she is better than you has no chance of getting fulfilled until she realizes that she is enough without the games and the need to put down others to feel better about herself, much like those who "neg" others to feel better about themselves.
Now let's talk about "jealousy plot lines"...
Why would you feel the need to create jealousy in others in order to attract them? Doing so is a demonstration to yourself and others that you need to use fear to control others, instead of just being confident in who you are and sharing a wonderful experience with someone. If you use jealously to attract women, they will either respond in one of two ways:
1. If they are of high self-esteem, they will see right through it and drop you faster than you would drop an "ug".
2. If they are of low self-esteem, they will accept it, and you will continue to draw in jealous, insecure people such as yourself.
And the circle of attraction is complete. You attract those whose intentions you use to attract them with. Using jealousy is coming from a scarcity mentality standpoint. Now there is nothing wrong with being honest and telling women that you sleep with other women and are a busy guy, if you truly do sleep with other women and are a busy guy. But if you aren't, then you're lying to her, to your friends, and to yourself. The vicious circle of fear is taking over you, and you need to stop it. If you truly were a busy man, and were of high self-esteem, you would not have to lie about being busy a certain day or tell her you did something you did not, just to try and convince her that you have more of a life than you actually do at that moment. Once again, that is coming from a scarcity mentality. I realize that some people have different methods of attracting others, and their methods of attracting people are usually a good indication of who they are. For example, those who use honest, high self-esteem and high character ways to share a great experience with a woman are usually honest, and of high self-esteem and high character. Those who use manipulative, deceitful ways of making a woman feel fear, hurt, and loss to keep women around are usually manipulative, deceitful, and of low-self esteem and character.
Is it wrong to lie to women? For me, yes. For you, that's for you to decide.
Honestly, I don't have the time to come up with clever little stories that never happened to me, or think of ways to attract a girl instead of just being my attractive self and letting things happen. Believe me, I'm all for creating great situations for myself and for those I care about, but I don't believe in using deceitful, dishonest tactics to keep women around. And for those of you that think it's alright to use other people stories and claim them as happening to you and your own, you're just as full of s*** as the next person.
Consider the concept of "being the prize". This concept is much like the mindset of "being a higher value". Both are ridiculous mindsets. You can sit there all day and night, and tell yourself how much of a "prize" you are, and of how much "value" you are, but think about it... slavery was a stupid concept too. Believe that you are of high self-esteem is not a competition in relation to another person or thing, it is a reflection of your feelings about yourself. Believing that you are of "higher value" and "more of a prize" than another person comes from a frame of "I need to dominate the other person and feel better than them in order for them to like me". This is once again... a scarcity mentality. If you truly were of high self-esteem, you would not need to compare your "value" or "prizablity" to another person, because you'd realize that we're all equal, but unique (see earlier reference to individuation). The need to feel that you are of "higher value" than another person reflects that you look at people simply as forms of currency. Money has material value, people don't. I've never heard of Bill Gates being of a "higher value" than Donald Trump, but I've heard his bank account being of a higher value than Trump's.
What else... hmm. Ah yes, the desire to be an assbandit, instead of respecting the people that are sharing a loving (hopefully) relationship with each other. It doesn't matter if they are married or in some other form of a monogamous relationship, both partners have boundaries. And for you to sleep with another man's (or woman's) monogamous partner is a direct and obvious violation of at least one partner's boundary. It does not matter if the woman "hates" the man, or the man treats the woman like a piece of dirt, they are still sharing a monogamous, although maybe abusive relationship... and that is not your place to interfere. If the woman cannot get herself out of the relationship, is she someone that you really would enjoy investing your time, energy and experiences with? If she cannot respect her partner, how can you expect her to respect a man who has knowingly and willfully violated the boundaries of her current partner? Read that again, and when you understand it, continue on.
That's right. If a woman will cheat on her partner with you, what makes it certain that she is honest with you and faithful if you so desire a monogamous relationship with her later on. The bottom line is: Respect other people boundaries. Does this mean that a woman who cheats on her partner will cheat on you for sure... no, but it makes that fact more probable.
Now for "Choosing the woman". This is utter bulls***. If you choose to be with a woman, and she does not want to be with you, then you two cannot be together. If a woman chooses to be with you, and you do not want to be with her, then you two cannot be together. If however, both of you choose to be with each other, then you can both share a mutually rewarding experience. You cannot "choose a woman", much like she cannot "choose you". You can only choose to be with them. Women are not property, we've moved past the Stone Age. You are not women's property, we've blasted through that age. You can only choose to share an experience with a woman, you cannot however, choose to take them as your own. This is dependency, you do not "need" women to be fulfilled. Drop the idea of "choosing women", it's not romantic, it's needy. Instead, adopt the idea of "choosing to be with them". It's healthier.
Let's discuss the concept of "kissing and telling". The idea that you will sleep with a girl, and then tell other people about it... is just plain unfair, cruel, and of low self-esteem and low character. When I sleep with a woman, and a woman or friend asks me about it, I simply tell them "We shared an amazing (or not so amazing) intimate bond last night. I'm not going to tell you who, that is none of your business nor concern." And that is that. Most people go around bragging about who they slept with to seek validation, so feel free to call people on it if they do so. If I talk about sleeping with a woman with someone, I don't tell her who it is, and I let her know why I don't tell her. I don't tell her that to make her jealous, I do it because I think it will be mutually beneficial to learn a new sexual technique, to hear an erotic story, or to involve her imagination in a loving way. It's healthier, and easier to do. I can't bring myself to break the trust I share with someone just to get the validation or approval of someone so I can feel better about myself. I am enough with that, and you are too.
Now, let's go into "calling people on their bullshit". Don't call people on their bullshit to make yourself feel better, to establish dominance, or to build attraction. Do it because you feel someone isn't living up to their fullest potential or because they're violating your boundaries or they are being of low character and low self-esteem. For example, if someone is telling a joke about you not to just be playful, but to hurt you, say this:
"I don't appreciate your comment. It wasn't done to add to the fun, you said it to make me feel bad so you can feel better about yourself."
After the person apologizes, you can choose to forgive them and let them back into your circle of trust, or not. It all depends on whether both of you are ready for that. Calibrate the situation and be honest, just don't lie about it.
Now, let's go into the concept of courage and consideration. Stephen Covey has a book titled "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People", and he writes something about a mark of maturity being someone who lives with courage and consideration (Note: I heard about this story from a newsletter, so this may not be exactly as he wrote it from Covey, I just don't have the newsletter on hand). Basically, if you have the balls to say something with courage, yet you fail to consider who you are saying it to, and fail to calibrate... then you are no more mature than a 5 year old. And if you have the consideration to calibrate what you say to somebody, yet you fail to have the courage to speak truthfully, then once again... you are no more mature than a 5 year old. So live your life with courage and consideration, be a mature man. Don't fall into the trap of sacrificing your true essence of maturity for the validation and approval of others.
As for general dishonesty, don't do it. It's fine to be mysterious, it's not cool to intentionally mislead. "Mystery" is suspenseful, it is natural. It is still being open, but not exaggerating or saying more than you need to. Misleading is deceitful, it is lying. Don't lie about how many women you've slept with, don't lie about who you are or who you are not sleeping with, don't tell a girl you will call her and then intentionally not call her just to "build attraction". Be a man of honor, of dignity, and of high-self esteem and character. To lie it to seek approval and validation. To lie means that you believe you are not enough. If you truly believed that you were enough, you would not have to lie and deceive to make someone think that you are better than you truly are. Lying is trying to get the approval of others through deception, it always comes back later on. When you lie, you are not speaking from the heart. When you do not come from the heart, you cannot truly connect heart to heart. Thus, lying is destroying a beautiful connection. When I catch myself lying, or beginning to lie, I stop. If I have just lied, I will tell the person I have lied to.
Does that mean I'm a bad man? Hmm, I digress. If I start seeking the approval of attention of others, I will tell them and tell myself and them that I need to stop. This may sound counterintuitive to the clever tactics, mindsets and techniques you have learned... but why try to cover it up? Makeup can only last so long before time, nature or both washes it away. Don't bother lying, and even worse... trying to cover it as if you didn't. Not only have you lied once if you do that, but you have lied again after that by not acknowledging what has happened. It is like blocking a river with a dam. After a while, nature has its way, and the water breaks the dam. When you speak the truth, and come from the heart... you will attract those who speak the truth and come from the heart. Some people may reject what you have to offer, and that's okay. There's just not there yet, and you have to respect that. Accept people as they are, they will get their sometime in this eternity. Your life will be much more open and enjoyable when you live a life of truth and integrity.
Don't build a dam, let the river of truth flow.
That wraps it up for now. I'm sure part 2, 3, 4, 5 and whatever may or may not come before and after that will be up here soon. I'm not going to go back and edit this, I wrote this as it is. I'll include more parts if I so desire to. Take care gentlemen, and remember to live truthfully, with high self-esteem, high character, and respect.
Cliff's Comment: While I certainly don't disagree with being honest, I do think that you've outlined a manifesto of high self esteem and integrity that has very little effective practical application. I think it ignores a lot of the reality of generating attraction (for example, while men and women are equal, if the man doesn't hold the edge in the balance of power, it is very unlikely in my opinion that you will be considered a potential lover by most women - this is the hard reality, not theory) and I would personally like to see you perform this frame and see it be effective with attractive women, because I can't see it in the way you've described it.
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
PROMOS & REVIEWS SECTION (there are NO paid ads in this list and never have been. The "commercial" section is distinguished by the "--------------" separators):
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LAIR SECTION (Lairs are gatherings of PUA's of differing levels and talents that meet in different cities to discuss their experiences and to work together to improve their success with women). More Lair Listings can be found at dutchseduction.blogspot.com/ and at www.bristollair.com, as well as at www.seductionlair.com:
A YAHOO GROUP FOR THOSE RUNNING LAIRS:
If and ONLY if you are running a lair there is now a Yahoo Group for organization ideas for PUA groups. As each lair is different, this group lets us know what other lairs are doing. No seduction related topics are discussed, just organization ideas. To join please email RunningaPUAgroup-subscribe@yahoogroups.com and then email Nightlife at nightlife858@yahoo.com with an intro of who you are and what Lair you are running. You can also go to: groups.yahoo.com/RunningaPUAgroup/
LAIR GROUP
If you run a lair or are considering starting one, join this group to exchange ideas with the rest of the community and keep informed of community activities. www.LairList.com Contact: LairList@LairList.com
HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE MONTREAL LAIR:
- Sunday February 26th at 8 pm is the next Lair meeting (Special Guest for this Meeting: Toecutter). For more info on joining the Lair (local only, sorry), email me. Out of town bros are welcome to drop in to meetings.
The Lair meetings are very insightful gatherings of guys interested in learning, improving, and helping others to become more successful in their relationships with women. If you are already in a relationship, and you continue to read these emails, you should realize that there is information here to improve and enhance your existing relationship - not only to create new ones.
Here is a list of other Lairs around the world (if you know of any others, please let me know):
MONTREAL JUNIOR LAIR FOUNDED!
Montreal Junior Lair: The Montreal X-Lair has been founded to help minors (who are not permitted to join the Montreal Lair until they are 18) get together and communicate. Lair applications would be sent to MontrealXLair@hotmail.com.
THE TORONTO LAIR
The Greater Toronto Area Lair Goes by the acronym for TOronto PUAS (TOPS) and has been going from success to success lately. There have been great talks by local PUAs who are regulars on Clifford's list, great outings, and membership continues to grow.
TOPs is open to men (and women) at all levels from Beginner to PickUp Artist. Just come with a desire to learn, a willingness to share what you know - and a commitment to test what you learn in the real world.
To join the Lair, send a request to: TO_Lair-owner@yahoogroups.com
If you have questions, you can contact the TOPS President, Smooth (cdnglenn@yahoo.ca) or TOPS Webmaster, Pluvio (pluvio69@yahoo.com)
Vancouver Social Board
A tight and good group of guys from various backgrounds who want to learn how to become better with women. We have two rules 1) this is not a competition, we are here to help each other and 2) you must be willing to try. We go out very regularly and have some skilled guys.
Visit groups.yahoo.com/group/vancouversocialboard/">Yahoo Group ( groups.yahoo.com/group/vancouversocialboard/"> groups.yahoo.com/group/vancouversocialboard/ )
Contact Docandwriter (docandwriter@shaw.ca)
NEW LAIR FORMING IN MISSISSIPPI/ALABAMA
I'm starting up a lair in MS/AL for anyone in driving distance to the Birmingham area. Contact blake1_19@yahoo.com for anyone interested in joining.
SALT LAKE CITY AND SURROUNDING AREAS
AFCs to PUAs. Meet and share seduction tips. We meet once a week and help push members to become the man they desire!
Contact UtahX at utahrafc@gmail.com NEW LAIR FORMING IN NORFOLK-VIRGINIA BEACH, VIRGINIA
I'm interested in starting a Seduction Lair in the Norfolk-Virginia Beach area. If anyone is interested, please email me. Thanks,
Stingray9001 stingray9001@yahoo.com
NEW LAIR FORMED IN DENVER Denver Lair is a community for Denver/Boulder/Colorado area PUAs to wing, talk about the game and make friends in the community. If you're in the Colorado, join our yahoo-group: groups.yahoo.com/group/denver_puas/
NEW LAIR FORMING IN RICHMOND, VIRGINIA
Hi, I'm starting a lair in Richmond, Virginia, the state capitol with a rather big scene. Currently all gamers in Richmond are forced to go up to DC, or down to North Carolina if they wish to attend a lair meeting. I would like to keep that experience at home, as we have many beautiful women in this wonderful city. Send an email to miikey723@yahoo.com if you wish to join.
EUROPE LAIR FOUNDED
Red Priest has founded the Europe Lair. You can find the description here:
http//groups.yahoo.com/group/europelair/
ISRAEL LAIR:
For the Israel Lair, Tironut 69, go to www.tironut69.com/"> www.tironut69.com
DUNEDIN, NEW ZEALAND LAIR FORMING
For all you Otago students (or campus orbiters) who think you got game! This will be the southernmost lair in the world. Run by an RAFC with a fair bit of bookwork and small experience- any skill level you want, just prepared to approach, talk and try out new stuff. Email me at beest.goes.roar@gmail.com, and will see if we can't get a local lair started. it's time to bring the game to the deep south!
WELLINGTON, NEW ZEALAND LAIR:
A new lair is starting up in Wellington, NZ. Primary focus will be regularly going out and working in the field. Anybody who wants to join constructive, like-minded people in persuingthe PUA lifestyle; email Matt on moxyfmac@gmail.com
TAMPA BAY AND ST. PETE, FLORIDA:
We started a new Lair in the Tampa Bay area. All styles welcome. e-mail us at paradigmaman@yahoo.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN GENEVA
We want to create a Lair in Geneva, Switzerland. It would be open to French and English speaking people living in Geneva and neighbouring cities like Lausanne and France as well willing to meet and seduce women. All skill levels and ages are accepted. The main task of the Lair will be field experiences on a regular basis. Contact Julien at : Julien72@bluewin.ch
NEW GROUP FOR CHICAGO
Chicago Wingman Meetup Group which currently holds meetings on the first Saturday of every month at 3:00 pm, the place will be disclosed to members once they sign up for the group. The website address is wingman.meetup.com/18/ - this group is combining with the Chicago Lair, whose contact was Eric at theprogen2003@yahoo.com Since they've just starting to hold meetings, they have a flexible format but as they get more organized they plan to have guest speakers. Anyone who knows a local PUA (not self proclaimed) is encouraged to invite him/ her over to share ideas. Please post all org issues under www.fastseduction.com/cities/Chicago
NEW LAIR FOR EDMONTON
*The Mastermind* The Mastermind is a highly exclusive Pick Up Artist Lair. Based out of Edmonton, Canada we assist guys who are serious and motivated to improve their Pick Up Artist game. We’re located at groups.yahoo.com/group/edpualair/ You can also email: manofadventure@jasons-world.com
SAN RAFAEL, CALIFORNIA
The Seduction Lair is up and running in San Rafael, California. Contact activte@aol.com for more information.
PARIS PICK UP CLUB
Formed by a group of FRIENDLY motivated guys from all nationalities with some solid game. The Paris Pick Up Club (PPC) is where all the PUA's and RAFC's BROTHERS living in Paris can share experiences, wing with different people and practice techniques. The goal is to IMPROVE our GAME while having lots of FUN. Since the purpose of the PPC is to practice, in order to join, future members must be available to SARGE regularly. Contact alfaztec@yahoo.com
BELGIUM: NL Lounge at dutchseduction.com/"> DutchSeduction.com
An independent platform for the phenomenon known as "seduction" in the Dutch language with members in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, Belgium and points beyond. Founded in 1999, we are one of the first international groups dedicated to seduction. Our purpose is to help members meet one another and share information and experience. Write to passie at passie@gmail.com Visit our Website: www.dutchseduction.com/"> www.DutchSeduction.com
NETHERLANDS: NL Lounge at dutchseduction.com/"> DutchSeduction.com An independent platform for the phenomenon known as "seduction" in the Dutch language with members in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, Belgium and points beyond. Founded in 1999, we are one of the first international groups dedicated to seduction. Our purpose is to help members meet one another and share information and experience. Write to passie at passie@gmail.com Visit our Website: www.dutchseduction.com/"> www.DutchSeduction.com
NEW LAIR IN NEW ORLEANS
There is a new Lair in New Orleans and here is the info:
groups.yahoo.com/group/NewOrleansPlayers/ - MIKEALW@HOTMAIL.COM.
Description: This group is for guys in the New Orleans area who are studying the Double your Dating material by David DeAngelo. This group is to get and give advice, to share your experiences and results, and to hook up with other guys so you can go out and work on your game together. Anyone in the New Orleans area is welcome from inexperienced to PUA's.
NEW LAIR IN SINGAPORE
The Singapore Lair is a community for guys interested in improving their skills in meeting and attracting/seducing women. This group is mainly for guys who live in or travel to Singapore, although PUAs from other countries are also welcome. Membership is restricted to doers only -- you must be in the field and have real field experience. No armchair theorists allowed. To join this group, email singaporelair-owner@yahoogroups.com with your name, background and experience.
DALLAS LAIR
The Dallas Seduction Lair has been around for over a year now. We have had 18 official events of both discussion and seminar style events. As well as countless nights of sarging with newfound wingmen by our members. We are now over 120 members strong. Anyone at any skill level with a desire to learn is welcome. More information at: wingman.meetup.com/6/ or www.dallasseductionlair.com/">www.DallasSeductionLair.com
DALLAS PUA
DallasPua.com is formed from the spirit of helping my fellow brothers become better in their sarging skills of women and of life; to develop their individual integrity. The site offers many free features such as a forum ( www.dallaspua.com/forum">www.dallaspua.com/forum ), personal journals/blogs, extensive resource page, and more. It is based out of Dallas, but the tailored PUA features are available to anyone. This is your site! For more info go to www.dallaspua.com/">www.DallasPua.com
HUNGARIAN LAIR FORMING
Hungarian Lair (Budapest) invites all visiting and local people for a great time of sarging in Budapest clubs and streets. We field test MM, SS, RSD, Maniac Plan and various other stuff. Contact us at redpriest_hu@yahoo.com!"
NEW LAIR FORMING IN ITALY:
Our goal is to have a lot of FUN! Why did we create a Lair? To keep in touch with each other and to rock the Italian scene, we want to live like rockstars since we know we DESERVE IT. We have had enough of all the boring guys and loser boyfriends out there that are making women's lives a nightmare when they are waiting for US, the playboys. Join us and we will share with you a lot of secrets that you need to know to totally transform your life life and get more choice not only in life but with every relationship. In order to learn you must be willing to go out with us and try new stuff asking to yourself: "What is possible? What if I get the results I only dreamed of and then even more than that?" Send an email at italy_lair@yahoo.com to join.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN NORWICH (UK):
The Norwich lair has been setup for RAFC and PUAs from East Anglia (UK) who wish to go sarging in in Norwich City Centre. The group is open to everyone who is serious about fieldwork in the Norwich area, and membership is free of charge. Norwich is about 2 hours from London by train. To join the listsend an email to norwichlair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.
OHIO LAIR FORMED:
An Ohio Lair has just been created for ASFers located in Ohio. I'm hoping to have regular sarging meetings at different cities in Ohio and regular guest speakers. Any ASFer in Ohio who is interested in joining please email me an intro of yourself to philonous03@yahoo.com.
VIRGINIA/CAROLINA LAIR GROUP
The VAC (Virginia Carolina) Lair is a community for Virginia and Carolina area PUAs to talk about the game, make friends in the community, and meet up with wings in the area. Current members are located in the Charlotte, Blacksburg/Radford, and Raleigh/Chapel Hill areas. While those from outside this area are encouraged to participate, most events will likely be held within these areas. The VAC Lair is open to all levels from Beginner to PickUp Artist (PUA). Just come with a desire to learn, a willingness to share what you know, and a commitment to field test what you learn. groups.yahoo.com/group/vaclair/
NEW YORK CITY LAIR: New York City Team Strike Force - The oldest lair in the U.S. and the only one that can lay claim to having dedicated instructors of reputation on staff, just for the members. Very organized, very respected and very strong sense of community, as well as life balance. You know you want us. Visit @ www.nyclair.com/">www.nyclair.com Please email admin@nyclair.com to request information about membership.
SECOND NEW YORK LAIR STARTED:
With the help of a few friends, Strongbad has started a lair in NYC. Send an email to either strongbadpua@yahoo.com or
NY-PLAY-subscribe@yahoogroups.com to join if you live in the NY area.
BLOOMINGTON LAIR STARTED:
The Bloomington, IN lair for guys interested in attraction/seduction. This is a group made for guys that want to discuss techniques, inner game, make
new friends, and meet up with wings in the Bloomington area. If your interested in subscribing email: b-lair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
AUCKLAND, NEW ZEALAND LAIR
Anyone living in Auckland (New Zealand) are welcome to join this bad ass lair. It's consantly growing, we have guys with all sorts of experience levels with diverse styles of game. We SARGE regularly. So if you're up for some fun e-mail us at akpuah@gmail.com"
SCOTLAND LAIR:
There is now a Scotland Lair. It's the SSs Group and we have a website at www.scotlandlair.com/"> www.scotlandlair.com that we JUST put up. The group is currently yahoo based and we would like to start taking in any members who may or may not have heard about us yet. To join, they can visit SSs.scotlandlair.com which will redirect them to our mailing list, or email signup@scotlandlair.com for more instructions on joining. The website is starting to grow big as it's seen on ASF. We have our own discussion forums. We also have a photo and VIDEO gallery where PUAs can upload their own photos and videos and browse those of others!! We are also giving out free scotlandlair.com email addresses to contributors.
BRAZIL NOW HAS A LAIR:
To join please send an email to Brazil_P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN TOKYO:
The Tokyo lair now has a discussion board for discussing the finer points of the Japanese scene, guys looking to meet wings and discuss all things nanpa can email tokyolair@hotmail.com for an invite to the board.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN ARIZONA:
We have formed a lair for guys interested in pickup and seduction in Arizona. It is open to anyone in the state, regardless of specific city, or skill level. If you are interested in joining, send an email to cramias@mail.com and you will receive an invite to our private forums.
ANNOUNCING SOUTH FLORIDA P-L-A-Y LIST:
The South Florida P-L-A-Y list is a community for Miami, Ft Lauderdale and Boca-Palm Beach area PUA's to meet up and improve their game in the field.
All methods are welcome. Please understand that our primary focus will be field work. To join, please contact Zuzu atSouthFlorida-P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
THE INDIA LAIR
We are a small but dynamic bunch of aspiring PUAs in India. Guys of all skill levels are welcome but MUST be serious about actually getting out in the field. Please register at the site. New registrants will be verified to weed out KJs. Visit www.indialair.com/"> www.indialair.com
BRISTOL LAIR
These guys have a truly great site, with a lot of terrific resources. Go to www.bristollair.com.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN DALLAS/FORT WORTH:
If you are interested in joining, please send an e-mail to dfwseductionlair@yahoo.com.
NEW LAIR IN GERMANY!
The name of the group is PU_Meetings_Germany. It´s a field oriented group and we welcome everybody from all over Germany to join and attend our meetings which are held in different cities all over Germany. For further information write to: pimpstylez@hotmail.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA:
A new lair called the O.C. Player's Group is forming for members of the seduction community in Orange County, California. The group will be a place for everyone from aspiring to accomplished PUAs in "the OC" to post their pick up experiences and successes and meet occasionally in a constructive and non-critical environment. Everyone is welcome, but you must be serious about becoming a PUA and the emphasis will be on getting out into the field and reporting on what worked and what didn't. Armchair pua/theorists need not apply! Contact pua1day (Kurt) for further information at o.c.playasgroup@sbcglobal.net or to join at:
groups.yahoo.com/group/ocplayasgroup/
NEW LAIR FORMING IN HARRISBURG, PA:
No keyboard Junkies, only people who are willing to go out in the field and just get better at the game. All levels are welcome. Contact Gaurang at
NEW SYDNEY LAIR STARTED!!!
Monthly meetings with guest speakers. All levels welcomed only prerequisite is that you are in the field. To join please email ta_justin@hotmail.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN OKLAHOMA CITY:
Lu is looking to start a lair in Oklahoma City, OK. He would like to invite anyone who's interested in going out sarging to join, & help him get the lair started, please respond only if you are interested in Going Out & SARGE, or Doing Field Work, contact him at ljp97001@yahoo.com.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN PHILADELPHIA
Looking for a group of guys interested in a Lair in the Philly area. All experience levels welcome but must be willing to actually go into the field. See philadelphiaLair@yahoogroups.com or email me at myaroch@yahoo.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN AUCKLAND, NEW ZEALAND:
We have already met-up with couple of local guys and SARGE 2-3 times a week. We are willing to meet-up with more guys to share the PU knowledge and experience to improve our game. Those of you who are interested contact us at sexualpredator@em-wave.com"
KANSAS CITY LAIR FORMING:
Looking to get a group of like minded guys together to share ideas and most importantly work the field in Kansas City MO. Write eclypz@hotmail.com and include "From Cliff's List" in the title.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN CONNECTICUT:
Open to PUAs and RAFCs who live in CT who are interested in or have real field experience as opposed to keyboard theory. Send an email to djsemtp00@aol.com with your background and experience.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN OTTAWA:
Ottawa Lair yahoo group created groups.yahoo.com/group/ottawalair/
NEW LAIR FORMED IN BOSTON:
The Boston Lair is now open. The lair is a forum for brothers in the Boston, Rhode Island, and upper New England area to get together and meet others in the game and to build an active community in Boston and the surrounding areas. To subscribe to the Lair, email b-o-s-lair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN NORTH CAROLINA:
A group is interested in forming a lair in the North Carolina area. Members include attendees of the Charlotte Sargeathon in November 2003. Meetings may rotate through different cities (possibly outside North Carolina) depending on interest. Contact Jason at thee_jacas@yahoo.com with LAIR in the subject line for more information.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN POLAND:
We've formed a LAIR in Poland groups.yahoo.com/group/pflayers/join so if anybody is interested in joining it contact me at PFLayers-owner@yahoogroups.com or subscribe at PFLayers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. It's unmoderated formum where You can excange your views on the game and meet with wings in your area.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN LAS VEGAS:
Nightlife who runs San Diego is helping a few guys set something up in Vegas so a new group is now forming. To join please send an email LV-P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com be prepared to give a brief intro.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN ITALY:
Milano will be headquarters. All Italians, Swiss, Austrians, etc are welcome to join. Would like to set up infrastructure for weekly or biweekly weekend sargefests, both day and night. Goals include: hosting seminars/workshops of the world's best PUAs, sharing the best techniques for Italian hotbabes, sarging together, sarging trips to Roma, Firenze, etc. We need to get a solid core of about 10 guys to really get it going. All levels welcome. Email italypua@yahoo.com for info.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN ATLANTA:
I am interested in forming an Atlanta Lair. If interested, please send an e-mail to jospades54321@yahoo.com
NEW LAIR FORMING MILWAUKEE TO MADISON:
A Lair is start for the Milwaukee to Madison, Wisconsin area. Emphasis will be on field sarging and developing a network of like-minded "wings" to develop and maintain a secret society in this area. We will SARGE from the college bars of Madison to the redneck fishermen bars of Lake Country to the cheesy working class discos of Milwaukee. All interested parties (male or female) please contact g66@outgun.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN MONTERREY, MEXICO:
The style I use is C&F from DYD, but am willing to try other styles, and will be very focused in going out and learning. Anyone interested in forming a Lair here in Mexico just write to me: javimartinez50@hotmail.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN HONOLULU, HAWAII:
Showing those surfergirls a good time since late '03. Drop an e-mail to lair808@hotmail.com for more info on building sandcastles.
NEW LAIR IN CHINA (MAINLAND, TAIWAN, HK):
A list for China based PUA has been set-up. Discuss PU tactics/experiences in China, and meet and practice with other local PUA. Contact Angel Caido on el_angel_caido@lycos.com and join the group @ groups.yahoo.com/group/PUA-china/join
NEW LAIR FORMING IN OSLO:
The Oslo Lair just opened. If you are interested / want to join, go to groups.yahoo.com/group/asf-Oslo/ and apply. We will start out with monthly meetings, on the first Sunday of every month. The first meeting will be held December 7th, at 18h00.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN LOS ANGELES:
The LA List, PLAY (Player's Los Angeles Yahoo) Group, is a community for Los Angeles area PUAs to talk about the game, make friends in the community, and meet up with wings in the LA area. The PLAY List is a community that is open to the public and is a place where you can share your views on any methods in an unmoderated (except for deletion of spam) forum. Contact Papa at papa@realsocialdynamics.com and get on the mailing list by emailing p-l-a-y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.
WASHINGTON, D.C.:
DC Seduction, formerly known as DC Area PUAs, has been around since 2000. We are over three dozen brothers drawn from the FastSeduction, SS, and the Lounge communities. Contact Minger at minger@dcseduction.com
SEATTLE LAIR FORMING!
I would like to find out how many are interested in forming a Seattle Lair. Contact theloinking1@hotmail.com to get on their mailing list.
THE AUSTIN SOCIETY (AUSTIN, TEXAS)
The Austin Society is a group of friends, within the greater Austin/San Antonio area, improving their attraction and relationship skills through field work and study. If you are interested in joining and contributing to our group, email us at theaustinsociety@yahoogroups.com for more info. Open-minded gentlemen of all skill levels are welcome."
NEW ORLEANS LAIR FORMING:
Joseph is looking to set up or find a "mastermind group" of likeminded people and he is in the south MS area about 1.5 hours drive from New Orleans or the MS gulf coast. He would like to invite anyone in MS/LA/AL within driving distance to participate, and to help him to get it started. Contact him at: veuxdeux@yahoo.com
NYC:
Contact Marco, marcorulesinfinity@yahoo.com and get on their mailing list: NYCTSF-SUBSCRIBE@YAHOOGROUPS.COM
SAN DIEGO (TWO GROUPS NOW!):
1) The San Diego lair is now opening their doors to potential new members for the next 30 days. If interested in joining the San Diego lair please contact Nightlife at nightlife@playboylifestyle.net
2) Pete M., and Nightlife have formed another seduction group in San Diego. This is to benefit guys who are interested in Pick Up who live or frequent San Diego. It is a group that is modeled after the LA P-L-A-Y list. To join send an email to SD-P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com It is open to everyone in San Diego.
SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA LAIR:
We have a very active group in the San Francisco area dedicated to improving their game. All skill levels and types of game welcome. We have meetings once every 6 weeks or so, and numerous SARGE outings. We also have top PUA's share their knowledge with us when they come to San Francisco. Our list traffic is low but valuable. Lots of field reports and feedback. To join send an email to sf_morpheus_x@yahoo.com, and mention you heard about us on Cliff's list.
DETROIT LAIR: New lair starting in Detroit area. Guys of all skill levels are welcome but MUST be SERIOUS about learning. The group will be interactive and do field work also.
Any one willing to learn or teach is welcome. Send Greg an email saying your interested at Grgreg_2001@yahoo.com HOUSTON:
www.houstonlair.com Members of the Lair meet regularly, actively apply and improve their skills and are eager to teach success. Contact: xmlenigma, bashev can be reached at xmlenigma@yahoo.com, rnkayab@hotmail.com
MELBOURNE, AUSTRALIA:
The Melbourne Lair is now fully operational. Currently we are meeting once a month, with members hooking up to go sarging between meetings. All styles, ages, and abilities are welcome. To join us contact Craig at cnoodles@bigpond.com.au
Melbourne Lair: The place, an open shopping center in the heart of the city. I sit down at the food court and wait for familiar faces to arrive. I picked the location of this months meeting of the Melbourne Lair, Its great to have it in an informal place like a food court, sets a nice relaxing mood. Once everybody arrives we push some tables together and start the meeting. We discuss peoples sticking points and offer suggestions, we tell stories of crash and burns and success stories. We just shoot the sh*t, it f*cking great to meet up with like minded people. While telling someone my smurf routine, I see two guys get up from the table and start walking away, I glance back later to see them sitting with a girl, these guys are approach machines.
The meeting goes on way too f*cking long, everybody's got a story to tell, advice to offer, we could talk to each other for days. I feel like this is Ocean's 11 and we are planning the big heist. There is the leader, he started the group. The guru, he's an encyclopedia of info. There is the joker, he can't stop negging and teasing everyone; f*cking Canadians. There's the approach machines, they can't follow the conversation because they are too busy following the nearest piece of ass. There is the SSer, the grease boy and of course Brad Pitt. We all exchange numbers before leaving and make plans for sarging during the week. If there is a Lair in your area, join it, if there isn't, start one of your own. You will not regret it.
AUCKLAND, NEW ZEALAND
Philip has started a LAIR for those who live in the upper North Island of New Zealand (Auckland, Hamilton, Tauranga, etc). There are already 4 of them who have been meeting regularly in Auckland, and they welcome others to be in touch. SSer's from elsewhere in New Zealand are also welcome to email to share experiences and form a network. Contact: philip@toeb.co.nz
MIAMI:
Contact Jerry at trudelle@email.com to attend.
LONDON, ENGLAND
The London Seduction Society www.thelss.com
AMSTERDAM:
Contact Big Bear groups.yahoo.com/group/nllounge/
The main purpose of the Lair is to help Wingmen to get in touch with each other and "in field" action! Membership open to anyone who lives in Holland or Belgium, or is a frequent visitor. However membership policy is strict.
PERTH, AUSTRALIA:
The Perth lair is a small group of people who SARGE regularly several times a week. At the moment, I'm actively looking for new members to join us on our outings (the more the merrier!). Anyone wishing to go sarging with us any day of the week should email me at tnejad@hotmail.com to meet up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Blake Richards has put out a new ebook that looks very interesting. Check it out here: www.social-mastery.com/Game.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Real Social Dynamics WORKSHOPS:
I highly recommend that you check these guys out. They are in the final stages of producing their long-awaited e-book as well as a redesign of their website.
Anyone interested in attending their seminars and/or workshops, email Papa at papa@realsocialdynamics.com with the subject "WORKSHOP" and mention that you heard about it from Cliff's List.
Real Social Dynamics (www.realsocialdynamics.com/ ):
Learn what works in seminar, and then jump directly into the field and watch the instructors demonstrate and teach it live. Stop feeling the fear of not knowing what to do ...
Individualized Bootcamps
Sign up and get more info here: www.realsocialdynamics.com/):
More info also available by sending an email to: support@relsocialdynamics.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Venusian Art Society is dedicated to the pursuit of Relationship Mastery.
We have started a Yahoo group in each city our members are located in Denver,Houston, and Atlanta. You can register for membership by going to Yahoo and joining V_A_S_D or V_A_S_A or V_A_S_H. Be sure to include your experience in the Venusian Arts as well as what you hope to get out of them.
This forum will serve as a way to discuss any and all issues related to the Venusian Arts, from cold approach to relationship management. We welcome all active participants in the Venusian arts from any of the various schools such as MM, SS, DYD, etc..
This will be a controlled forum so feel free to post anything you want as long as it is directly relatable to the Venusian Arts. This is not a classified board or a place to advertise.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Dating/Seduction Seminars & Workshop in Montreal by DOC!
Doc, who many of you know from his great interview here last time and all too rare but outstanding posts on this list, on Mystery's Lounge, and the Montreal Lair, is bringing his seminars and speed dating events to Montreal. Previously they were mainly held in Toronto as part of the Learning Annex, Doc is now setting it up here and plans to hold events on a monthly basis.
The website is www.lifeskillsnetwork.ca. Registrations available on the website. The events are Dating Secrets for Women, a 3 Hour seminar (cost $50) and Dating Secrets for Guys; a Guide to The Art of Dating (also 3 hours and $50). There will also be a speed dating event in the evening for $50. You can contact Doc by email at seduction.school@sympatico.ca.
The fall calendar has a full weekend seminar and makeover. He also has 3 new books coming out this fall under the SETNA Dating Manual Series. Volume I (to be released this week) deals with the psychology of attraction, first impressions, and working on your inner game, Volume II (coming in September) deals with tactics and strategies to go from meeting her to dating her, and Volume III will deal with Managing Relationships.
Full-weekend Dating Makeover workshops will be offered soon (including a half day with a personal stylist, video tape analysis of body language, and live practice sessions with dating coaches beautiful women who will give the guys on the spot feedback on how they come across and what to improve). If there is a group of 10 or more guys interested in a seminar (or 5 guys for a workshop, he would consider making a special trip to their city).
This is a great opportunity to learn from a real master.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mystery Method Workshops:
What method are YOU using?
If you are opening groups (or sets: 2-sets, 3-sets, mixed sets, etc) of people with the 3 second rule by stacking indirect openers (including false opinion openers), false time constraining (discovered by Style), demonstrating a higher value to your romantic interest’s peer group with high octane DHVs while she obliquely observes (locking her into her own set with a prop), and simultaneously performing false disqualifiers (which include negs) on her with the intension of disarming her peergroup and then isolating her to rebuild her self-esteem once you have enough IOIs (indicators of interest) so you may share in a comfort and trust building effort and then build in a jealousy subplot to solidify her attraction for you, you are using The Mystery Method.
If instead you are only approaching women who are alone, you are greatly limiting your options and quite likely alienating your target's friends. Do you want a lonely woman (why is she lonely?) or a woman who already has a healthy social lfe? Truth is, healthy women have healthy relationships ... sometimes good friendships with guys. Like it or not, you will have to meet these women with men in her group.
Women of beauty are rarely found alone. Don't miss the opportunity to meet and attract them WITH social proof from her very own peergroup. Group Approach Theory (GAT - created by me) improves your options and increases the chances for attraction DRAMATICALLY over Single Approach Theory (SAT).
The guys who are GREAT in this game KNOW that they can improve their game ten-fold through seminars and personal coaching in-field workshops. Think about this: Why did so many of the greats who use my GAT (Style, Tyler D., MTL_PUA, and others) take my seminars and workshops? What started them off to greatness in this game? Can you see the co-relation may in fact be a causation?
If you have NEVER taken a seminar or workshop before, it's time to finally reconsider. They are life-transforming. I have conducted dozens of them. I am currently conducting a bootcamp and will accept only 5 people. Workshops and seminars were for many of the greats THE difference between great success and failure. If you are ready, give me a call and sign up. If you have any questions, give me a shout at 323-219-8696 (Mystery) because email sucks, or visit www.mysterymethod.com/"> www.Mysterymethod.com and email me your #. We need to talk. Man to man.
NEW: Attraction Magic
Content: In the Attraction Magic Seminar, Mystery will teach you the magical illusions most useful in picking up women. In addition to rune casting and sleight of hand, he will teach you to vanish coins, rings, jewelry and other small objects. You will also be taught how to move objects without touching them and how to "read" minds. As I'm sure you can imagine, magic is a superb DHV. Captivating and impressing an entire group of people goes a long way in raising your social value in the eyes of women. If there is one thing that Mystery knows more about than women, it is magic.
www.mysterymethod.com/schedule.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Derek Vitalio:
Seduction Science Coming To Montreal & Toronto
Seduction Science Live In-Field Workshops, coming next to Montreal February 24th, 25th, and 26th!
The fact is, only by MODELING the very best can you achieve the very best. In a Seduction Science workshop, you'll meet and train with master coach McMaax who will take you to unique hot spots all over a particular city for meeting the most attractive, beautiful women. Your coach will demonstrate their skills and explain, teach, and show you how to interact with women at a club and on the street.
With a coach, you'll find an immediate shift in your skills and understanding with women as you see what it takes demoed live and right in front of you. And there's no reason to take the long and hard path or reinvent the wheel. After making hundreds of approaches, we've learned what works and what doesn't. We'll show you exactly how it's done and save you months, if not years of time.
You'll never have to go back to feeling lonely or lost and live passionately once again. Reserve your place as soon as possible (placing is limited!) so that you're guaranteed a spot.
For more information on the full workshop schedule visit: www.seductionscience.com/workshops
3-Day Live In-Field Workshops (all of these are Friday, Saturday, Sunday and cost $1,000.00 (deposit of $300 required) except for the NYC one)
February 24th, 25th, 26th Montreal, Canada 2 seats left!
March 3rd, 4th, 5th Toronto, Canada 2 seats left!
March 10th, 11th, 12th Montreal, Canada 3 seats left!
March 17th, 18th, 19th Toronto, Canada 2 seats left!
April 7th, 8th, 9th Toronto, Canada 1 seat left!
April 28th, 29th, 30th Toronto, Canada 2 seats left!
May 12th, 13th, 14th New York City, US $1200 U.S. dollars 3 seats left!
May 19th, 20th, 21st Toronto,Canada 2 seats left!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Swinggcat has published a new ebook which you can check out at his website at www.realworldseduction.com. Those of you who remember his outstanding posts here will be anxious to get this as soon as possible. Highly recommended.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ross Jeffries Speed Seduction Seminars (www.speedseduction.net/)
Advanced Speed Seduction® Seminars - All Seminars Updated!
The first 2006 seminar is scheduled for LA, Jan 20, 21, 22. Look for more details soon, or call Dr. Yates at 903-482-1034. Price is $1,195. This seminar is ONLY open to those who own a Speed Seduction Home Study Course so you better hop on line and buy one now if you don't already have one and plan on attending.
Speed Seduction Seminars
Schedule 2006
Location Dates
Los Angeles, CA March 10, 11, 12
London, England September 15, 16, 17
Speed Life Seminars
Schedule 2006
Location Dates
Hawaii (Location - Tentative) October 22 thru 26
Magick / Psychic Influence Seminars
Schedule 2006
Location Dates
London, England Sept 8, 9, 10
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Major Mark (www.trucor.com):
Send mail to Cassi@trucor.com with questions or comments about his seminars.
Call to register: 419 882-8543 or go to www.trucor.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Double Your Dating LIVE! NEW Seminar! We will be reviewing all of the new DYD products here soon, including the monthly interview series in which David DeAngelo interviews "Dating Gurus".
You can order all your DYD products and register for seminars through this link: www.doubleyourdating.com/cl
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Threesomes! The Secrets To Making Your Fantasy A Reality
A home study course by David Shade www.masterful-lover.com/3somes.html
If you are like most men, you have had a fantasy about a threesome with 2 hot bi-sexual women. Everything you could possibly need to know about how to have threesomes is in this special information packed course.
The FIRST And ONLY, step-by-step guide written for men, featuring Pickup Artists and couples who are actually having threesomes all the time.
I GUARANTEE you that you've NEVER been exposed to, or had real Threesomes explained to you in the way I've done it here in this course!
It doesn't matter if you are in a relationship currently or not, every situation is covered here...
- The 3 scenarios to make a threesome happen (pick the one that works BEST for you)
- How to have threesomes as part of a committed relationship (and have it bring you closer together)
- The real truth about women and bisexuality (This will SURPRISE you)
- Proven methods to deal with your woman if she is on the fence about having a threesome. (You will have her begging you to make it happen)
- 4 vital things you MUST know about bisexual women (if you want to be successful having threesomes)
- How you can tell if a women is bi-sexual or not. (It's not what you think)
- The single biggest obstacle most women have to doing a threesome with their man. (when you can deal with this, the rest is easy)
- The foolproof way to bring up the subject of threesomes when you
have been with a woman for a long time. (This one is so powerful I almost didn't release it)
- The one thing you can say that shows a bisexual woman you are NOT like all the other guys (Do this and they might even fall in LOVE with you)
- Also, actual field reports of David & his girlfriend picking up bisexual women
- And much, much more...
The bottom line is that by learning how to have threesomes... YOU can live life fully and enjoy being a sensual person through expression of healthy sexuality in a mutually beneficial way.
Free samples of the course video online, check it out at www.masterful-lover.com/3somes.html
The classic 'David Shade Manual' goes online
You've done all the hard work, found the HB, attracted her, managed to get her back to your place, now you need to skills in the bedroom if
you want to keep the attraction going. Being able to give her the sexual experience of her life is the final tool in the seducer's
toolkit, so make sure you make the most of this opportunity. David Shade, as you are no doubt aware, is well known in the seduction
community as the master of bedmanship skills.
His masterpiece the 'David Shade Masterful Lover Manual' is now available for the first time online at www.alphalover.com/cmd.php?ad=145730"> www.alphalover.com . Highly
recommended, it is possibly the only book on the subject you will ever need. Compulsory reading.
www.alphalover.com/cmd.php?ad=145730"> www.alphalover.com
"The Seduction End-Game"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Payton Kane's Seduce and Conquer (www.seduceandconquer.com) CD disks present Payton's unique, dynamic style of meeting and seducing women. His methods are very natural and are the epitome of the original advice you get - tease and take away, play hard to get, etc. Definitely worth checking out, but not for everyone.
------