He now opts for a single huge shiny belt buckle, partially hidden behind a half-tucked shirt
This is Cliff's Private List, a free e-mail relating to seduction. Your contributions of articles, field reports, reviews and other comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from people commenting are separated by HHHHHH with each commentator's name preceding each comment. Comments from previous emails are preceded by an ">", usually in front of that commentator's name). Feel free to forward this email to all your friends and encourage them to request a free subscription by going to www.cliffslist.com and click on "Subscribe." You can also unsubscribe on the site as well. If you would like to be added to the free joke list (and mention if you do not want to receive the adult emails that come with the joke list), send an email to cliff@cliffslist.com. All posts you see here have been submitted by the author, or permission granted by the author to be reposted here. All emails with comments should be sent to cliff@cliffslist.com. If you are reading this as an email, you want to go to www.cliffslist.com and see the entire email, which includes Lair listings (see if there is one in your city or start one if there isn't), promotional notices, seminar notices, new product and website announcements - and lots more. This email has been edited and modified to allow it to pass through the various email filters - the unedited version is on the website.
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DID YOU MISS THE 2005 ASSEMBLY OF PICK UP ARTISTS, LADIES MEN, & DATING EXPERTS? You are in luck!!
The Cliff's List Convention 2005 DVD's are NOW available. Go to www.cliffslistconvention.com and get your copy. Don't miss this outstanding record of a magical event where the best in the World pulled out their "A" games and presented the highest quality information seen anywhere. Featured speakers include Mystery, Style, Tyler Durden, Dave M., Steve Piccus, Will, Cameron Teone, Dr. Alex, David Shade, Doc, Toecutter, Zan, Brent, Bishop, Patty, David DeAngelo, Lance ("Sensei"), and more, including the first Threesome Panel! The reviews have been phenomenal, all confirming that this is the product to take your game to the next level.
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Special offer to Cliff's List:
Toecutter (Steve Celeste) is offering a seminar in Montreal on Meeting and Sleeping with Women While Going About Your Regular Life, and is giving away a ticket to a reader. Please go to: www.smoothinteractions.com/cliff/offer.php
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RichieRich:
Cliff’s List Convention June 30-July 2, 2006
First of all, I would like to thank Cliff and all of the speakers who gave generously of their time and knowledge in helping to expand the consciousness of others in the Seduction Community. Below you will find my review of the speakers that I personally saw (which was the bulk of them). There were certain speakers I did not get a chance to see and hear for various reasons (usually because I was tied up in private conversation outside the ballroom with one of the previous speakers and in some cases slept in due to very long nights).
For the most part, the information that was dispersed in Montreal was very useful. I must say I came back to Philadelphia a changed person. This convention was my a-ha moment. The camaraderie created throughout this event will hopefully last a lifetime.
The following is a breakdown speaker by speaker (without giving away the entire contents of their speeches) highlighting some of their more progressive remarks. I will give them stars from 1-10 based on what I got out of their speeches; 1 being the lowest and 10 being the highest. Also please note, all of the opinions below are my own personal opinions, so other people may have a different assessment of what they heard.
Michael "The Dating Wizard"
A self admitted nerd, Michael truly conveyed that he is comfortable in his own skin. He shared how he uses his charismatic personality to pick up women and how Superior Intrinsic Value (how a woman can feel your value as a man). He believes these traits are conveyed by body language, humor, and tonality. Michael told the group, "If you are not making a girl feel emotional, then you are not making an impact in her life." He also stated that women want a cool guy in their life because it validates them (much like how men want a hot girl on their arm).
One of his better suggestions is to get rid of crappy music in your library and only listen to music that empowers you and gets you into a happy and positive state of mind. He would rather go out with positive people with no skills (when sarging
for women) than a people with high skill levels who let off a negative vibe.
In closing he added the valuable advice of, "If a girl makes you feel bad, just forget her and move on."
6.0 stars out of 10
Carlos Xuma
Carlos showed up at the convention after a brief visit with Shaolin monks in China. Xuma preaches a sensitive alpha male style and relates a lot of pick up to the martial arts (as do a few other well known PUA’s within the community).
One of the more insightful things Carlos said during his speech was, "Everyone in this room would love to present a girl with a lottery ticket for a million dollars."
He then went on to say, "You are her lottery ticket."
By this I believe Carlos was trying to get across that as men should view ourselves as the prize; their lottery ticket. You can be the good fortune that could come into their lives. So when approaching a girl, if she’s not interested in you as her lottery ticket; it’s her loss.
He used lots of eastern philosophical metaphors and basically goes through life with the attitude that anytime anything bad happens he says, "That’s Great…"
Carlos also preaches the idea that when approaching a woman that one should use a "real" opener. By this he means if you’re going to use an opener, use something that means something to you. Too many guys run around using canned openers they read off the Internet. He suggests that you come up with questions/openers that you actually are interested in. One of his "real openers" that he uses when approaching women is the following, "Why do you think guys are so nervous about approaching women?"
Carlos likes to use a lot of motivational phrases, ideas, and thoughts when it comes to pickup and in life. In closing, one of his more memorable thoughts he shared was, "Successful people do what unsuccessful people don't want to do. Winning is everything, but it doesn't have to mean someone else is losing. Anything worth doing in life won't be easy."
7.5 stars out of 10
Nige54
My first impression of Nige when he took the stage was, "Wow, this guy looks like Jude Law." He was probably the best looking guy to take front and center at the Convention. When Nige got up and spoke most people took notice. From his immaculate physical presentation (his style), his warm smile, and his Australian accent; this guy demonstrated his great outer game. Nige’s message is that a man has 3 main objectives when it comes to meeting women. He said, "You need to develop a look, a personality, and a body."
To change his look he peroxides his hair and got his tongue pierced. Nige also spoke of having the mindset of when you go out that you need to think you already have a girlfriend, which basically translates into the, "I don't give a shit attitude." This women will find very attractive.
He reviewed a few openers, logistical locations in bars/clubs to hang in, and the best time to pull a girl out of a bar. He also went over the idea of having a post sex interview with a girl. This Australian PUA stresses the importance of finding out from a girl why she decided to sleep with you after you do the deed. This helps him in future conquests.
Overall it appears that this very up and coming dating coach from down under, has his shit together and breaks down the game in a very simple and easy to understand format.
7.5 stars out of 10
Grant Adams
An expert marketer and master promoter, Grant discussed how the idea of meeting women off the Internet made absolute sense. Adams proclaimed that 73% of single people in America have or are doing on-line dating, so if you as a single man haven't tried it, you’re missing out on a great opportunity.
He explained how through personal profiles and emails someone can actually make a woman desire sleeping with you before she has even met you face to face. He then went on to explain the dos and don'ts of on-line dating. Choosing the proper pictures, using the right verbiage and language on-line could entice a woman to choose you over 100’s of other men writing her. He also explained how having the proper screen name can separate you from the rest of the crowd.
His presentation did come off a little like a slick infomercial, but overall Grant’s presentation was an overall asset to the conference.
8.0 stars out of 10
Group Panel with Bad Boy, Travis, Lance Mason, and DJ – Developing and Maintaining Multiple Long Term Relationships
This was an interesting discussion that surely brought some value to the Convention. DJ was a last minute replacement for Zan (who would speak at a later time over the weekend). Lance quickly took the lead and explained that he currently had one committed long term relationship, but that he felt all men should go through at least a six month period in their life where they would date several different women just from the sheer aspect of training yourself not to be so needy towards one woman. He then went on to state that when dating several women at the same time, a guy will be able to break each woman down and figure out what he wants and doesn't want from a woman.
Badboy spoke up and explained that when you meet a girl and start a relationship (dating) that within the first month you must paint the whole image of the relationship and make sure not to see her more than once a week (a common belief shared by many PUA’s). He then stated that there were two ways of thinking in MLTR’s. One is that you can lie and deny you’re dating anyone else or you can just be honest with her and tell her you are seeing other girls. Both are a pain in the ass, yet both styles can work.
Lance interjected with a conflicting view to Badboy’s, stating that if you tell her you’re dating other girls (i.e. sleeping with them), the girl will feel like a slut. So to counter all of this you must just keep things casual (which involves time lapses in seeing her) so she doesn't get it into her mind that you and her are seriously dating.
DJ went on to state that you shouldn't try to set up a relationship, but to set up your life which will then draw girls into it. If you’re busy living, that will be communicated and that you will not have to force the frame. The frame will happen.
Travis didn't get to speak too much as Lance and Badboy did most of the talking. However, his major statement of contribution was that instead of girls shit testing you, you should make them pass your tests (make them jump through your hoops).
Overall a pretty interesting and impressive discussion.
7.5 stars out of 10
Cameron "The ONE" Teone
This L.A. based PUA had a lot to say and wanted to expand upon his speech he gave at the Cliff’s List Convention in 2005 (the topic being personal attributes). Cameron stated that if you are a normal cool guy, that 80% of your game is internal and 20% external. He went on to say that if you want to get and keep a girl, you must maintain attraction and rapport.
Cameron then spoke about what levels of rapport you need with a woman based on what type of girl she is. For instance, is she a party girl? An intellectual? A good girl?
He also spent some time touching on internal dialogue and how you need to stop having this internal nervous chatter. This will only produce feelings of nervousness within a woman. Cameron also encouraged the audience to stop analyzing everything.
He closed out his lecture by making analogies to professional athletes and what they do to overcome adversity. Cameron stated that you should focus on the positive. What happens if I get a girl’s phone number (you must think that it’s going to be a great time)? He suggested that you talk to everyone. One must socialize so that when you see a hot girl, there’s no pressure. It becomes a function of being socially active.
7.5 stars out of 10
Will H with Jacque Werth
Two very interesting men from very different demographics. Will has been involved in the PUA community for several years. A former NYC bouncer, he became well known through the DYD programs. He is the only "well known African-American PUA" in the world. Jacque comes from a business background; always having success with women and in the world of Sales. This man (I'd guess he’s in his mid to late 60’s) brings his worldliness and his self-proclaimed success with women over several years. Mr. Werth brings a very pleasant and sincere personality to the table.
Will reviewed proper ways of leaving messages and text messages with girls whose numbers you've accumulated. He also went into some proper procedures that wingmen should employ (some of which I was able to use right away with wonderful success). Will talked about how he doesn't date (i.e. spend very much money on women) and how he is able to just get them to come over and sleep with him. Very impressive.
Jacque followed Will and spoke about his past history and how he became successful with women. Jacque and Will are in the process of formulating a company called High Probability Dating that incorporates Will’s techniques with the techniques employed by Jacque’s business programs.
7.0 stars out of 10
Steve P, Johnny Soporno, and Zan
I'm not really sure what the purpose of this discussion was supposed to be, but I was able to garner a lot of a lot of fantastic information from these three more experienced and mature ladies men. Johnny Soporno opened up this panel discussion by stating that many women will say to a guy, "You’re not my type."
In turn you can ask her, "How many people in the world do you know actually settled down with their type and they are happy?"
To me this was a very powerful statement. It sure makes you think. He then went on to claim that when he sees a woman that he puts them in 3 categories.
I wouldn't fuck them.
I might fuck them.
I would fuck them.
As they talked about so many things, I've listed a few other key statements that really rang true to me.
"We make long term promises on short term feelings."
"Be key to the relationship of what you want, by being honest."
"The secret to meeting women is that you never have to be the seller. Walk in, knowing that it’s someone you would want to be with."
There were so many other powerful things said, my hand couldn't write fast enough. These guys were simply awesome!
9.5 stars out of 10
Brian
Brian, a former self-proclaimed multi-millionaire who has been to hell and back, gave what equated to an inspirational pep talk. He claims to have to have an ego the size of Texas, but if there was anyone there this weekend that could be considered the PUA version of Tony Robbins, Brian would fit the bill. He talked about going out by himself and talking to everyone he met. "The intent behind the interaction will make you or break you," he claimed.
Brian went into detail about how to create rapport and accessing the eye movements of your partner in an interaction to gage their attraction/interest. He then went into specifics of anchoring how this technique can build confidence.
He’s a big believer in NLP and how reframing situations can help you see the world from a different perspective. His major focus in life is on being an excellent human being and that he can't control how other people feel about him. He did note though that he does care about other people’s feelings.
Overall, Brian’s morsels of wisdom related to life, relationships, health, wealth, and happiness. I personally can see how his attitude about daily life interaction can help one’s approach in pickup.
7.5 stars out of 10
Bart Baggett
One of the more polished and entertaining speakers at the convention, Bart Baggett brings a skill set in handwriting analysis (he’s also an expert in NLP) that can help even the most advanced PUA. He explained that most of his clients are women, but this skill can be a tremendous asset when it comes to pick up.
Bart explained some of the more important letters and qualifiers in a person’s handwriting to discover whether you may even want to have anything to do with them. Imagine if you could analyze a woman’s handwriting in a bar and realize that she’s most likely to turn out psycho or if she’s either closed off (i.e. prude) or most open to going home on the first night you meet her.
Baggett was able to talk about a serious topic in a light and funny manner. One of his better stories involved how his own father (who is in his late 60’s) was able to pick up more girls in a restaurant in an unplanned event where he went up against a well known pickup pioneer.
Listening to Bart was pure entertainment and quite an educational experience.
9.0 stars out of 10
Decker and Bryan
These two guys from San Francisco spoke about their program that they hope will take pickup to a new and elevated level. They compared men doing pickup to women putting on makeup. Their coaching focuses on a more natural inner game and fixing this problem first. This way you don't shut down your body and brain when trying to meet a woman.
They are one of the first pickup coaching companies to employ women who also work as dating coaches and giving men on the spot analysis to help them find the woman of their dreams. Decker and Bryan preach how you need to develop the inner belief that, "I don't need shit from women. I'm bringing something to their life."
Of course they also spoke of developing yourself as a person so you can back up these thought patterns. It seemed to me that they focus on a lot of NLP/hypnosis type of exercise and help men develop their inner game.
This was a nice refreshing spiritual approach to pickup as opposed to some of the more common techniques that are often taught. Some of the exercises they use to employ these methods seem a bit freaky on the surface, but then again if you can become congruent with these ideas (you actually believe what you’re doing), then I can see how they could work.
Note – one of my good friends who was part of my crew that came to Montreal worked with these guys in a free private workshop and it appeared that he had a major life change (at least for the first 24 hours after working with them). I must say he came back a much cooler guy.
8.0 stars out of 10
DJ
At first glance, DJ is physically the average American man in his 30’s. He does not stand out in a crowd as above average or below average in looks. However, when he opens his mouth, a vast amount knowledge and intelligence is dispensed. DJ, definitely knows how to hold your attention.
He talked about a more holistic approach to pickup. Interestingly enough, he’s worked with one of the Pickup community’s master showman, Mystery. DJ’s claim to fame is story telling. He spoke about how you are who you are within your deep inner core. Who you are is how you go out and present yourself (at least to others).
An interesting comment he made (which rings true as many PUA’s are very analytical and highly intelligent), he said, "What if too much focus is based on the result that the focus negates the results?" Definitely something to think about.
Some of the other points DJ spoke about was approach anxiety, AMOG’ing (don’t AMOG your boss), ways to spend time with yourself, self worth, building your own network, and making a conscious decision to be the best man you can be.
8.0 stars out of 10
Lance Mason
Lance didn't fail to disappoint. He runs one of the top PUA boot camp companies in the United States. His star has been rapidly rising over the past few years. This may have something to do with the fact that he actually comes off as a cool guy. The first part of his speech was about confidence. Lance claims that this is conveyed 100% by body language (which makes sense since a lot of their programs focus on this aspect of the game).
He spoke about how the really good pickups do not look like pickups to an outside observer. Lance then spoke about "Naturals." He explained that naturals are always on through PERFECT MECHANISMS. This can not be faked.
Mason went onto explain that when you learn a new skill set that you must practice it. Otherwise you take it in and there’s a good chance it will be forgotten.
It was nice touch that he introduced some of his top instructors and some guys that he was giving a free mini-boot camp to in Montreal. If there was any downside to his presentation, it did seem like a mini-infomercial. Otherwise, most of what he spoke about was very valuable.
8.0 stars out of 10
Badboy
The epitome of the alpha male, this PUA instructor from Croatia has seen the battlefield (literally, he was shot in the head and appeared to be partially paralyzed). Despite all of the hardships life has brought him, it doesn't appear that any of this has hindered his success with women.
He started out by stating that everybody has attraction for something. Every girl is special, but they have more in common than differences. He stated that most women desire the same general qualities in men. For example, they like a guy who:
Is confident.
Is a challenge
Knows what he wants
Is interesting
Has a sense of humor
Is a bit sexual
Is not afraid to show desire
Badboy’s view on being dominant is being the leader in gaming and in life. This will take you to new heights. He segued his way into discussion about pickup and his thoughts that the less a woman had to do in a pickup situation, the more successful you will be. If you don't use force, you won't get resistance (then again you might not get anything). However he did go on to say that women find aggressive men to be a turn off, but a dominant man is a turn on. The man must lead throughout the seduction.
He continued to give out big morsels of wisdom. The Croatian PUA stated that 93% of communication is body language and the other 7% is verbal (which you would use your tonality and emotions to help project your intentions). Other points he got across included to never argue with a woman (it will get you nowhere). Every decision a girl makes is based on how she feels in that moment. He spoke of the 5 different emotions women feel.
Of all the important nuggets that Badboy generously dispersed, he told the audience, "Don't blame anyone else for your life. You are the one who will design your life."
I don't know if his style of pickup is congruent with a lot of men, but he was one of the more informative speakers throughout the 3 day event and perhaps had one of the best understandings of the core thoughts of women.
9.0 stars out of 10
Jlaix
Probably the funniest and most colorful character to appear at the 2006 Cliff’s List Convention. He got up on stage and proclaimed, "Sex is for losers, it’s for people who don't have anything to do."
This would probably be a profound statement if made by anybody else, but those who know Jlaix by his reputation know that nothing that comes out of this guy’s mouth is that shocking. This RSD instructor is probably best known for being the shock jock of the community. Of course Jlaix did not disappoint when it came to making profound statements. He quickly delved into some of his monologues that he runs out in the field.
Despite his reputation as the badboy comedian of the PUA community, Jlaix spoke about a recent metamorphosis that he’s had in his life. Having spent the past several months in Spain, he decided to change his life around. He spoke of learning about new cultures, developing 3 new skills (every three months) such as dance lessons, language classes, stand up comedy, etc. This is for the purpose of adding value to life and giving value to others.
He covered so many territories when it comes to life and pickup that one could not be impressed by the vast knowledge and wisdom that Jlaix has garnered in his 30 years. He spoke of pushing oneself to take action. You should not aim for perfection, but for consistency. Other memorable quotes, "Return to center, move forward. Play to your strengths. Be different. Be unique."
Although he seems (at least from my perspective) a little burnt out on the PUA community and pickup itself for the sake of picking up, he did say that what he enjoys best about working with aspiring PUA’s is that he loves to turn a guy into a cool social guy, the kind of guy that he'd like to hang out with.
That’s all one can ask for.
9.5 stars out of 10
Doc
This Canadian based psychologist spoke about the Art of Social Networking which more guys in the community could definitely benefit from. The main focus of his talk was the 10 Principles of Social Networking. Basically he shared some of the secrets in life to making friends so that if your goal is meeting a lot of women, very little pickup (traditional pickup skill sets that are taught within the community) are needed. Doc detailed these 10 skills in depth, but you'll have to check out the DVD if you want to hear about them.
He closed out his speech by stating, "Do something with people rather than alone." I got the feeling that Doc really loves people and helping others achieve their goals.
9.0 stars out of 10
Steve Celeste "Toecutter"
Steve is considered one of the pioneers in the PUA community. Although not one of the best public speakers out there, he is by far one of the most knowledgeable and opinionated guys in the community. He spoke about meeting girls in your social circle and turning them into romantic relationships. One of the more interesting things he stated was that people express their emotions and feelings on their face rather than verbally (meaning don't necessarily listen to what a girl is saying, but actually observe her face as she says it).
Celeste told the audience to embrace a continuing interaction with a girl. He also stated that if a woman knows you’re not judging her sexuality, you'll probably get a lot more out of her on that front (I can vouch for that). In closing, he encouraged the men in the audience to learn how to be playful and keep working on your flirting skills. If you can capture the essence of what he is claiming, you will have a lot more success with the opposite sex.
7.5 stars out of 10
Zan
Zan, a Vancouver based "Natural" is one of the long time members of the community. He is known for his pretty boy looks and his just overall likability. He discussed about how there really are no naturals, but that every guy that becomes good with women do so because they've really made an effort to work on this area of their lives.
The main focus of his speech was the 10 Traits that every guy who is good women must have (you'll have to catch it on DVD – worth seeing again). He stated that you either have all of these traits or none of them.
One of the things besides Zan’s 10 Traits that he gave of value is the 90 Day plan. He stated that you should write down your goals for the next 90 days and want them as bad as breathing. Think about nothing else, but achieving these goals. Erase everything else that’s not part of it.
By the time Zan was done speaking, I even overheard a few guys in the foyer area saying that they were not gay, but if they were a woman, they'd want to date Zan.
That speaks volumes about this man.
9.0 stars out of 10
Brad P
This rockstar-like PUA instructor from NYC closed out the convention. I'm not sure if it was planned, but Cliff saved the VERY BEST for last. He’s relatively new to the PUA community which is quite awesome in the respect that he brings so many fresh ideas to this "world."
Cliff's Comment:
Actually, the threesome panel which featured Johnny Soporno and two of his girlfriends closed out the event. It seems like you missed it but it was a definite highlight which actually had Zan taking copious notes!
(Now back to the review of Brad P)
He went into depth about the notorious, "One Night Pull." He spoke about processing early sets and how you should do several warm up sets to up your social calibration. You should open up 10-12 sets so that you can be socially fine tuned. Brad went on to say that if a girl rejects you, it makes a great story to tell the next girl. How’s that for story telling? From his point of view about figuring out whether you and a girl are compatible, he'd rather find out quickly, rather than wasting time.
He spoke about the 3 types of social contracts (can't wait to see the DVD’s to review this important aspect of the game). Basically a social contract is the reason a woman is out. Is she looking to be picked up, have a guy buy them drinks, or just out to hang with her girls? Brad delved into these reasons and how to figure it out quickly so you don't waste your time.
Brad generously gave away his Loser Whatever song and several of his openers and attract material. I have to say I was able to use several of these right away to get some very solid results (yes, some did result in f-closes – Thanks Brad).
Later in the evening he generously donated his time and spoke free of charge to whoever wanted to show up (as he didn't have enough time to go into everything that he wanted to cover during his allotted stage time). Some of the insights and techniques that he generously gave away would have been worth paying an additional charge.
I have to say that out of all the speakers at the convention, Brad was my favorite. This is despite the fact that he was the very last speaker and I was extremely tired. I was so inspired that I dragged myself to his seminar later in the evening.
Thanks Brad.
9.7 stars out of 10
In closing, I'd like to thank Cliff for all the work he did to put this convention together and all the guys who came in and generously shared their vast wealth of knowledge. This was definitely a changing point in my life. I hope that one day I can give back, if even in a small way to the community that I've been able to take so much from.
You guys rock!
RichieRich
More Reviews of the Cliff's List Convention 2006:
SuperG:
Asian Playboy
Schooled in the MM, Asian Playboy gave out a few nice pointers on opening, AMOG’ing, in-club escalation, and the interesting issue of race and PUA-dom. He stated that when a girl asks "what do you do?" she is actually asking "who are you?" and that your response must give her some information she will find attractive. For example, not just "I'm a computer programmer" but "I'm a computer programmer but in the winter I snowboard."
He recommended taking some dance lessons and learning a few good moves to avoid being the "dancing monkey." He explained his method for escalating to a hand job in the dance floor.
For the latter portions of his talk, he appeared to be answering questions written down on 3x5 cards, such as "Are white girls interested in Asian men?" and "How do you deal with a racist AMOG who says you have a small penis?" (Answer: "You know I'm flattered, but Club Gay is over there…")
He spoke about how peacocking works but that it attracts shit-tests like crazy. He now opts for a single huge shiny belt buckle, partially hidden behind a half-tucked shirt. ("I have this because it points to my crotch.") Funny, a friend of mine just wore a new huge shiny belt buckle out the other night…
7.5 stars out of 10
Dr. Paul
Dr. Paul’s cow-bell punctuated parody of some of the most popular PUA approaches out there was completely hilarious and had the audience in stitches. It was a delicious "meta-moment" and a reminder that some of this stuff can really seem bizarre on the outside.
He’s an actual licensed psychiatrist by his own claim, and he’s not Dr. Phil (he’s light years ahead of that chode, actually). He used his satire as a jumping off point into a fairly detailed discussion of what has been termed "deep inner game." He spoke knowledgeably about the importance of boundaries, buttons, and blind spots as they relate to a conception of male maturity, which had a ring of truth. He stressed the importance of this inner game over gimmicky techniques (although in fairness, most of the apparently "gimmicky techniques" out there are accompanied by some fairly impressive inner game as well if you really pay attention).
He pointed towards a kind of grounded, ethical synthesis of game, and advocated a move from worshipping the "alpha" male to prizing the "omega" male. In order to understand what that means, you'll have to purchase his material, at least some of which I know is available through his collaborative work with DYD.
8.5 stars out of 10
David Shade
One of the pioneers of this field, David Shade has done a tremendous amount of work on the romantic/sexual side of the equation ("Romance is the socially acceptable term for sexuality" he stated).
He stressed the importance of the "it just happened" frame for women, and how romantic behaviors can be the key to its establishment. He talked about his techniques for getting from the napkin-folded-into-a-rose phase (he recommended learning how to do this and surprising her with it) to the radio-remote-controlled-vibrator-in-her-vagina-at-the-restaurant phase. He went over some deliciously nasty 9 ½-weeks-style scenarios to get into, both as a way of turning a woman on initially, and continuing the sparks in a long-term relationship.
Learning the techniques for really satisfying a woman is crucial, he stated, not only to give her great pleasure and get her addicted to you, but also to give yourself the unmistakable confidence that comes with knowing you can utterly rock her world. "Be careful who you do this to, though" he implored, since it can create stalkers!
8.5 stars out of 10
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Toecutter (www.smoothinteractions.com):
Pick up lines are not where you want to be thinking. Because inherent in the idea of a pick-up line is that you spit out your magic line, and then can cruise because it is magic. Like it somehow magically attracted her, and now you can just be yourself, and everything will be cool.
But the fact is that there is no magic pill. There is no magic smell that you can spray on your body, and suddenly everything will be fine. You have to make the deeper changes; to your self-esteem, to the way you flirt, to the way you make eye contact, to the way you run the interaction ... all these things take work. Work on yourself, and work on how you interact.
But at the same time, when meeting people, you have the same conversation over and over. Now, if that conversation is "what do you do for a living" that is still a conversation you are having over and over.
There are people out there who are teaching men how to meet women who say that saying the same things over and over again (routines) is just a crutch. Just something you need to do until you are proficient at off-the-cuff conversation. But this is a fallacy.
Now, you could draw a tree chart of the possible conversations that are there. Just because you do not take the opportunity to have the conversation does not mean that it is not there. Like you could have the conversation that starts with "What do you do?", but you leave that aside and go for another conversation. You could have that conversation again that starts with "I just broke up with my girl-friend..." but you leave it be, it is not a good conversation. You could do the one of hers that starts with "I have a boy-friend", but you know where that one ends and you decide to leave that conversation alone.
It is like conversational topics are these things that are like paths that cattle have carved through some forest. To walk along the paths that already exist is easy, to carve a new one through virgin forest is a battle.
Now you have your paths through the forest that you have made. They may be good paths like "A friend of mine just got married in Las Vegas, what do you think of that?" or they could be bad paths that start with "The first girl I ever loved rejected me and I am still recovering ..." Either way those are paths.
Now, unlike every other situation in your life, when you are meeting new women, you have no relationship with them. Like when you are speaking to a friend of 3 years, you can not recycle a conversation that you have already had, because this is a replay and no fun.
But with someone you just met, EVERYONE is recycling old conversations. Whether that is the "What do you do" conversation or "How many brothers and sisters do you have" conversation or the something that I like. Ask me about my accent, and BAM! she is on my thread. I know where this one goes, I have had it before. She says "You just want to sleep with me don't you?", and she thinks she knows where this one ends, but I have cut a path through the forest on this one that ends up well for me ... "Ha! Look at you, you know what I can tell about you ..." and I am off on my path.
So at the end of the day, meeting new people is a unique situation. Your parents go out and meet new people and they are having the "What do you do" conversation over and over, and answering it over and over. But they are not in meeting new people situations often, and not in a goal oriented way like meeting a potential partner.
So routines are not something you run away from. They are something you embrace. As long as you are having routines anyway (such as "What do you do"), you might as well have ones that are actually interesting.
These conversations are not something that you use as "crutches" while you are learning, but rather you are beating out new paths through the forest and finding new good ways through. And it is not like you will throw these things away when you are good and have high-self-esteem and have learned how to flirt, but rather that you will have explored the maze of paths really well and know where the forks in the road are. And if she wants to go along the path that starts with "Let's Just Be Friends ..." you know that there is a little trodden path that goes where you want it to go, rather than down the path she wants it to go, and hey presto!, you are using your conversations used before to further your cause.
So rather than running from rehearsed conversations, thinking that there is some "natural" way, understand that most conversations go along well beaten paths, and the well beaten paths are less interesting.
Embrace the conversations you have, and be prepared to have them again. I mean, how many times can you have that "what do you do" conversation and still be interested in taking your end of it? Why not go down the one that starts with "I saw an interesting article about women asking men to marry them in Nepal, and it is the practice there ... I mean, how would you feel about that ..."
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PROMOS & REVIEWS SECTION (there are NO paid ads in this list and never have been. The "commercial" section is distinguished by the "--------------" separators):
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LAIR SECTION (Lairs are gatherings of PUA's of differing levels and talents that meet in different cities to discuss their experiences and to work together to improve their success with women). More Lair Listings can be found at dutchseduction.blogspot.com/ and at www.bristollair.com, as well as at www.seductionlair.com:
A YAHOO GROUP FOR THOSE RUNNING LAIRS:
If and ONLY if you are running a lair there is now a Yahoo Group for organization ideas for PUA groups. As each lair is different, this group lets us know what other lairs are doing. No seduction related topics are discussed, just organization ideas. To join please email RunningaPUAgroup-subscribe@yahoogroups.com and then email Nightlife at nightlife858@yahoo.com with an intro of who you are and what Lair you are running. You can also go to: groups.yahoo.com/group/RunningaPUAgroup/
LAIR GROUP
If you run a lair or are considering starting one, join this group to exchange ideas with the rest of the community and keep informed of community activities. www.LairList.com Contact: LairList@LairList.com
Lair List is an official directory of lairs worldwide. The Lair List Foundation is an international nonprofit cooperation of lair owners. LairList.com is completely nonprofit. LairList.com is 100% non-commercial. If you run a lair or are considering starting one, register your lair here lairlist.com/index.php?option=com_comprofiler&task=registers. Join this group (lounge.lairlist.com/) to exchange ideas with the international lair community. Get the latest seduction news from around the world (www.lairlist.com/).
HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE MONTREAL LAIR:
- Lair meetings are scheduled for Sundays at 8 pm and the next Lair meeting hasn't been scheduled yet. For more info on joining the Lair (local only, sorry), email me. Out of town bros are welcome to drop in to meetings. Thanks to DJ for being our latest celebrity guest speaker.
The Lair meetings are very insightful gatherings of guys interested in learning, improving, and helping others to become more successful in their relationships with women. If you are already in a relationship, and you continue to read these emails, you should realize that there is information here to improve and enhance your existing relationship - not only to create new ones.
Here is a list of other Lairs around the world (if you know of any others, please let me know):
MONTREAL JUNIOR LAIR FOUNDED!
Montreal Junior Lair: The Montreal X-Lair has been founded to help minors (who are not permitted to join the Montreal Lair until they are 18) get together and communicate. Lair applications would be sent to MontrealXLair@hotmail.com.
THE TORONTO LAIR
The Toronto Lair is called TSN or Toronto Social.net. Anyone who gets to the homepage at www.TorontoSocial.net./ can email the webmaster to get information. If that's not an option, they can call Ike at: 416-628-9973 or his cell at: 416-300-6500.
Vancouver Social Board
A tight and good group of guys from various backgrounds who want to learn how to become better with women. We have two rules 1) this is not a competition, we are here to help each other and 2) you must be willing to try. We go out very regularly and have some skilled guys.
Visit Yahoo Group: groups.yahoo.com/group/vancouversocialboard/ Contact: Docandwriter (docandwriter@shaw.ca)
Victoria Social society
This is an open group for all you Victorian men (Victoria, British Columbia, Canada)who wish the study and pursue the art of seduction.
Visit Yahoo Group:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/victoriasocialsociety/
Contact: Docandwriter (docandwriter@shaw.ca)
Calgary Social Group
This is the Calgary PUA Lair for men (young and old) who want to get together to discuss PU and go sarging in Calgary. This group is meant to enrich the lives of men and, I believe ,women indirectly. Everyone can learn and it's only the lack of support and positive influence that cause people to stop trying. Here we can all grow as men and learn the skills we need to accomplish our goals.
Visit Yahoo Group: groups.yahoo.com/group/calgarysocialgroup/
Contact: Elantraman (elantraman2002@yahoo.com) or Docandwriter (docandwriter@shaw.ca)
AUSTRIAN PLAYERS
Home of the legendary EuroSummit 2005, most diverse members from total beginners to serial layers from Austria, Germany and Switzerland. Join us! (If you happen to ravel by, drop us a line!) Visit: www.austrianplayers.com Contact: Neodes@austrianplayers.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN AMSTERDAM/HOLLAND:
The lair can be found at groups.yahoo.com/group/Amsterdam_Dating/
NEW LAIR FORMING IN PORTLAND, MAINE
I'm starting a lair in Portland, Maine so we can truly be "the way life should be"!
Starting with a dozen AFCs & PUAs and looking to grow and share our skills.
Send email to magickman@maine.rr.com if you wish to join.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN MISSISSIPPI/ALABAMA
I'm starting up a lair in MS/AL for anyone in driving distance to the Birmingham area. Contact blake1_19@yahoo.com for anyone interested in joining.
SALT LAKE CITY AND SURROUNDING AREAS
AFCs to PUAs. Meet and share seduction tips. We meet once a week and help push members to become the man they desire!
Contact UtahX at utahrafc@gmail.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN NORFOLK-VIRGINIA BEACH, VIRGINIA
I'm interested in starting a Seduction Lair in the Norfolk-Virginia Beach area. If anyone is interested, please email me. Thanks,
Stingray9001 stingray9001@yahoo.com
NEW LAIR FORMED IN DENVER
Denver Lair is a community for Denver/Boulder/Colorado area PUAs to wing, talk about the game and make friends in the community. If you're in the Colorado, join our yahoo-group: groups.yahoo.com/group/denver_puas/
NEW LAIR FORMING IN RICHMOND, VIRGINIA
Hi, I'm starting a lair in Richmond, Virginia, the state capitol with a rather big scene. Currently all gamers in Richmond are forced to go up to DC, or down to North Carolina if they wish to attend a lair meeting. I would like to keep that experience at home, as we have many beautiful women in this wonderful city. Send an email to miikey723@yahoo.com if you wish to join.
EUROPE LAIR FOUNDED
Red Priest has founded the Europe Lair. You can find the description here:
http//groups.yahoo.com/group/europelair/
ISRAEL LAIR:
For the Israel Lair, Tironut 69, go to www.tironut69.com/"> www.tironut69.com
DUNEDIN, NEW ZEALAND LAIR FORMING
For all you Otago students (or campus orbiters) who think you got game! This will be the southernmost lair in the world. Run by an RAFC with a fair bit of bookwork and small experience- any skill level you want, just prepared to approach, talk and try out new stuff. Email me at beest.goes.roar@gmail.com, and will see if we can't get a local lair started. it's time to bring the game to the deep south!
WELLINGTON, NEW ZEALAND LAIR:
An active lair is up and running in Wellington, NZ. Primary focus is going out and working in the field. All skill levels are welcome. Anybody who wants to join constructive, like-minded people in persuing the PUA lifestyle. We have a forum, and a bunch of friendly people who can wing with you to get you off of the ground; email Matt via moxyfmac@gmail.com
TAMPA BAY AND ST. PETE, FLORIDA:
We started a new Lair in the Tampa Bay area. All styles welcome. e-mail us at paradigmaman@yahoo.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN GENEVA
We want to create a Lair in Geneva, Switzerland. It would be open to French and English speaking people living in Geneva and neighbouring cities like Lausanne and France as well willing to meet and seduce women. All skill levels and ages are accepted. The main task of the Lair will be field experiences on a regular basis. Contact Julien at : Julien72@bluewin.ch
NEW GROUP FOR CHICAGO
Chicago Wingman Meetup Group which currently holds meetings on the first Saturday of every month at 3:00 pm, the place will be disclosed to members once they sign up for the group. The website address is wingman.meetup.com/18/ - this group is combining with the Chicago Lair, whose contact was Eric at theprogen2003@yahoo.com Since they've just starting to hold meetings, they have a flexible format but as they get more organized they plan to have guest speakers. Anyone who knows a local PUA (not self proclaimed) is encouraged to invite him/ her over to share ideas. Please post all org issues under www.fastseduction.com/cities/Chicago
NEW LAIR FOR EDMONTON
*The Mastermind* The Mastermind is a highly exclusive Pick Up Artist Lair. Based out of Edmonton, Canada we assist guys who are serious and motivated to improve their Pick Up Artist game. We’re located at groups.yahoo.com/group/edpualair/ You can also email: manofadventure@jasons-world.com
SAN RAFAEL, CALIFORNIA
The Seduction Lair is up and running in San Rafael, California. Contact activte@aol.com for more information.
PARIS PICK UP CLUB
Formed by a group of FRIENDLY motivated guys from all nationalities with some solid game. The Paris Pick Up Club (PPC) is where all the PUA's and RAFC's BROTHERS living in Paris can share experiences, wing with different people and practice techniques. The goal is to IMPROVE our GAME while having lots of FUN. Since the purpose of the PPC is to practice, in order to join, future members must be available to SARGE regularly. Contact alfaztec@yahoo.com
BELGIUM: NL Lounge at dutchseduction.com/"> DutchSeduction.com
An independent platform for the phenomenon known as "seduction" in the Dutch language with members in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, Belgium and points beyond. Founded in 1999, we are one of the first international groups dedicated to seduction. Our purpose is to help members meet one another and share information and experience. Write to passie at passie@gmail.com Visit our Website: www.dutchseduction.com/"> www.DutchSeduction.com
NETHERLANDS: NL Lounge at dutchseduction.com/"> DutchSeduction.com An independent platform for the phenomenon known as "seduction" in the Dutch language with members in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, Belgium and points beyond. Founded in 1999, we are one of the first international groups dedicated to seduction. Our purpose is to help members meet one another and share information and experience. Write to passie at passie@gmail.com Visit our Website: www.dutchseduction.com/"> www.DutchSeduction.com
NEW LAIR IN NEW ORLEANS
There is a new Lair in New Orleans and here is the info:
groups.yahoo.com/group/NewOrleansPlayers/ - MIKEALW@HOTMAIL.COM.
Description: This group is for guys in the New Orleans area who are studying the Double your Dating material by David DeAngelo. This group is to get and give advice, to share your experiences and results, and to hook up with other guys so you can go out and work on your game together. Anyone in the New Orleans area is welcome from inexperienced to PUA's.
NEW LAIR IN SINGAPORE
The Singapore Lair is a community for guys interested in improving their skills in meeting and attracting/seducing women. This group is mainly for guys who live in or travel to Singapore, although PUAs from other countries are also welcome. Membership is restricted to doers only -- you must be in the field and have real field experience. No armchair theorists allowed. To join this group, email singaporelair-owner@yahoogroups.com with your name, background and experience.
DALLAS LAIR
The Dallas Seduction Lair has been around for over a year now. We have had 18 official events of both discussion and seminar style events. As well as countless nights of sarging with newfound wingmen by our members. We are now over 120 members strong. Anyone at any skill level with a desire to learn is welcome. More information at: wingman.meetup.com/6/ or www.dallasseductionlair.com/"> www.DallasSeductionLair.com
DALLAS PUA
DallasPua.com is formed from the spirit of helping my fellow brothers become better in their sarging skills of women and of life; to develop their individual integrity. The site offers many free features such as a forum ( www.dallaspua.com/forum"> www.dallaspua.com/forum ), personal journals/blogs, extensive resource page, and more. It is based out of Dallas, but the tailored PUA features are available to anyone. This is your site! For more info go to www.dallaspua.com/"> www.DallasPua.com
HUNGARIAN LAIR FORMING
Hungarian Lair (Budapest) invites all visiting and local people for a great time of sarging in Budapest clubs and streets. We field test MM, SS, RSD, Maniac Plan and various other stuff. Contact us at redpriest_hu@yahoo.com!"
NEW LAIR FORMING IN ITALY:
Our goal is to have a lot of FUN! Why did we create a Lair? To keep in touch with each other and to rock the Italian scene, we want to live like rockstars since we know we DESERVE IT. We have had enough of all the boring guys and loser boyfriends out there that are making women's lives a nightmare when they are waiting for US, the playboys. Join us and we will share with you a lot of secrets that you need to know to totally transform your life life and get more choice not only in life but with every relationship. In order to learn you must be willing to go out with us and try new stuff asking to yourself: "What is possible? What if I get the results I only dreamed of and then even more than that?" Send an email at italy_lair@yahoo.com to join.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN NORWICH (UK):
The Norwich Lair is a group for pickup artists in Norwich (UK) and the surrounding areas. The lair meets every Saturday night , 10PM in Norwich
City. The group is not a talking shop, if you want to remain in the lair you must participate in fieldwork every 90 days. To join the group, send an email to thenorwichlair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
OHIO LAIR FORMED:
An Ohio Lair has just been created for ASFers located in Ohio. I'm hoping to have regular sarging meetings at different cities in Ohio and regular guest speakers. Any ASFer in Ohio who is interested in joining please email me an intro of yourself to philonous03@yahoo.com.
VIRGINIA/CAROLINA LAIR GROUP
The VAC (Virginia Carolina) Lair is a community for Virginia and Carolina area PUAs to talk about the game, make friends in the community, and meet up with wings in the area. Current members are located in the Charlotte, Blacksburg/Radford, and Raleigh/Chapel Hill areas. While those from outside this area are encouraged to participate, most events will likely be held within these areas. The VAC Lair is open to all levels from Beginner to PickUp Artist (PUA). Just come with a desire to learn, a willingness to share what you know, and a commitment to field test what you learn. groups.yahoo.com/group/vaclair/
NEW YORK CITY LAIR:
New York City Team Strike Force - The oldest lair in the U.S. and the only one that can lay claim to having dedicated instructors of reputation on staff, just for the members. Very organized, very respected and very strong sense of community, as well as life balance. You know you want us. Visit @ www.nyclair.com/"> www.nyclair.com Please email admin@nyclair.com to request information about membership.
SECOND NEW YORK LAIR STARTED:
With the help of a few friends, Strongbad has started a lair in NYC. Send an email to either strongbadpua@yahoo.com or
NY-PLAY-subscribe@yahoogroups.com to join if you live in the NY area.
BLOOMINGTON LAIR STARTED:
The Bloomington, IN lair for guys interested in attraction/seduction. This is a group made for guys that want to discuss techniques, inner game, make
new friends, and meet up with wings in the Bloomington area. If your interested in subscribing email: b-lair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
AUCKLAND, NEW ZEALAND LAIR
Anyone living in Auckland (New Zealand) are welcome to join this bad ass lair. It's consantly growing, we have guys with all sorts of experience levels with diverse styles of game. We SARGE regularly. So if you're up for some fun e-mail us at akpuah@gmail.com"
SCOTLAND LAIR:
There is now a Scotland Lair. It's the SSs Group and we have a website at www.scotlandlair.com/"> www.scotlandlair.com that we JUST put up. The group is currently yahoo based and we would like to start taking in any members who may or may not have heard about us yet. To join, they can visit SSs.scotlandlair.com which will redirect them to our mailing list, or email signup@scotlandlair.com for more instructions on joining. The website is starting to grow big as it's seen on ASF. We have our own discussion forums. We also have a photo and VIDEO gallery where PUAs can upload their own photos and videos and browse those of others!! We are also giving out free scotlandlair.com email addresses to contributors.
BRAZIL NOW HAS A LAIR:
To join please send an email to Brazil_P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN TOKYO:
The Tokyo lair now has a discussion board for discussing the finer points of the Japanese scene, guys looking to meet wings and discuss all things nanpa can email tokyolair@hotmail.com for an invite to the board.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN ARIZONA:
We have formed a lair for guys interested in pickup and seduction in Arizona. It is open to anyone in the state, regardless of specific city, or skill level. If you are interested in joining, send an email to cramias@mail.com and you will receive an invite to our private forums.
ANNOUNCING SOUTH FLORIDA P-L-A-Y LIST:
The South Florida P-L-A-Y list is a community for Miami, Ft Lauderdale and Boca-Palm Beach area PUA's to meet up and improve their game in the field.
All methods are welcome. Please understand that our primary focus will be field work. To join, please contact Zuzu atSouthFlorida-P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
THE INDIA LAIR
We are a small but dynamic bunch of aspiring PUAs in India. Guys of all skill levels are welcome but MUST be serious about actually getting out in the field. Please register at the site. New registrants will be verified to weed out KJs. Visit www.indialair.com/"> www.indialair.com
BRISTOL LAIR
These guys have a truly great site, with a lot of terrific resources. Go to www.bristollair.com.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN DALLAS/FORT WORTH:
If you are interested in joining, please send an e-mail to dfwseductionlair@yahoo.com.
NEW LAIR IN GERMANY!
The name of the group is PU_Meetings_Germany. It´s a field oriented group and we welcome everybody from all over Germany to join and attend our meetings which are held in different cities all over Germany. For further information write to: pimpstylez@hotmail.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA:
A new lair called the O.C. Player's Group is forming for members of the seduction community in Orange County, California. The group will be a place for everyone from aspiring to accomplished PUAs in "the OC" to post their pick up experiences and successes and meet occasionally in a constructive and non-critical environment. Everyone is welcome, but you must be serious about becoming a PUA and the emphasis will be on getting out into the field and reporting on what worked and what didn't. Armchair pua/theorists need not apply! Contact pua1day (Kurt) for further information at o.c.playasgroup@sbcglobal.net or to join at:
groups.yahoo.com/group/ocplayasgroup/
NEW LAIR FORMING IN HARRISBURG, PA:
No keyboard Junkies, only people who are willing to go out in the field and just get better at the game. All levels are welcome. Contact Gaurang at
NEW SYDNEY LAIR STARTED!!!
Monthly meetings with guest speakers. All levels welcomed only prerequisite is that you are in the field. To join please email ta_justin@hotmail.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN OKLAHOMA CITY:
Lu is looking to start a lair in Oklahoma City, OK. He would like to invite anyone who's interested in going out sarging to join, & help him get the lair started, please respond only if you are interested in Going Out & SARGE, or Doing Field Work, contact him at ljp97001@yahoo.com.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN PHILADELPHIA
Looking for a group of guys interested in a Lair in the Philly area. All experience levels welcome but must be willing to actually go into the field. See philadelphiaLair@yahoogroups.com or email me at myaroch@yahoo.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN AUCKLAND, NEW ZEALAND:
We have already met-up with couple of local guys and SARGE 2-3 times a week. We are willing to meet-up with more guys to share the PU knowledge and experience to improve our game. Those of you who are interested contact us at sexualpredator@em-wave.com"
KANSAS CITY LAIR FORMING:
Looking to get a group of like minded guys together to share ideas and most importantly work the field in Kansas City MO. Write eclypz@hotmail.com and include "From Cliff's List" in the title.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN CONNECTICUT:
Open to PUAs and RAFCs who live in CT who are interested in or have real field experience as opposed to keyboard theory. Send an email to djsemtp00@aol.com with your background and experience.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN OTTAWA:
Ottawa Lair yahoo group created groups.yahoo.com/group/ottawalair/
NEW LAIR FORMED IN BOSTON:
The Boston Lair is now open. The lair is a forum for brothers in the Boston, Rhode Island, and upper New England area to get together and meet others in the game and to build an active community in Boston and the surrounding areas. To subscribe to the Lair, email b-o-s-lair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN NORTH CAROLINA:
A group is interested in forming a lair in the North Carolina area. Members include attendees of the Charlotte Sargeathon in November 2003. Meetings may rotate through different cities (possibly outside North Carolina) depending on interest. Contact Jason at thee_jacas@yahoo.com with LAIR in the subject line for more information.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN POLAND:
We've formed a LAIR in Poland groups.yahoo.com/group/pflayers/join so if anybody is interested in joining it contact me at PFLayers-owner@yahoogroups.com or subscribe at PFLayers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. It's unmoderated formum where You can excange your views on the game and meet with wings in your area.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN LAS VEGAS:
Nightlife who runs San Diego is helping a few guys set something up in Vegas so a new group is now forming. To join please send an email LV-P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com be prepared to give a brief intro.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN ITALY:
Milano will be headquarters. All Italians, Swiss, Austrians, etc are welcome to join. Would like to set up infrastructure for weekly or biweekly weekend sargefests, both day and night. Goals include: hosting seminars/workshops of the world's best PUAs, sharing the best techniques for Italian hotbabes, sarging together, sarging trips to Roma, Firenze, etc. We need to get a solid core of about 10 guys to really get it going. All levels welcome. Email italypua@yahoo.com for info.
ATLANTA LAIR:
Contact: groovewhiz@yahoo.com
NEW LAIR FORMING MILWAUKEE TO MADISON:
A Lair is start for the Milwaukee to Madison, Wisconsin area. Emphasis will be on field sarging and developing a network of like-minded "wings" to develop and maintain a secret society in this area. We will SARGE from the college bars of Madison to the redneck fishermen bars of Lake Country to the cheesy working class discos of Milwaukee. All interested parties (male or female) please contact g66@outgun.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN MONTERREY, MEXICO:
The style I use is C&F from DYD, but am willing to try other styles, and will be very focused in going out and learning. Anyone interested in forming a Lair here in Mexico just write to me: javimartinez50@hotmail.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN HONOLULU, HAWAII:
Showing those surfergirls a good time since late '03. Drop an e-mail to lair808@hotmail.com for more info on building sandcastles.
NEW LAIR IN CHINA (MAINLAND, TAIWAN, HK):
A list for China based PUA has been set-up. Discuss PU tactics/experiences in China, and meet and practice with other local PUA. Contact Angel Caido on el_angel_caido@lycos.com and join the group @ groups.yahoo.com/group/PUA-china/join
NEW LAIR FORMING IN OSLO:
The Oslo Lair just opened. If you are interested / want to join, go to groups.yahoo.com/group/asf-Oslo/ and apply. We will start out with monthly meetings, on the first Sunday of every month. The first meeting will be held December 7th, at 18h00.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN LOS ANGELES:
The LA List, PLAY (Player's Los Angeles Yahoo) Group, is a community for Los Angeles area PUAs to talk about the game, make friends in the community, and meet up with wings in the LA area. The PLAY List is a community that is open to the public and is a place where you can share your views on any methods in an unmoderated (except for deletion of spam) forum. Contact Papa at papa@realsocialdynamics.com and get on the mailing list by emailing p-l-a-y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.
WASHINGTON, D.C.:
DC Seduction, formerly known as DC Area PUAs, has been around since 2000. We are over three dozen brothers drawn from the FastSeduction, SS, and the Lounge communities. Contact Minger at minger@dcseduction.com
SEATTLE LAIR FORMING!
I would like to find out how many are interested in forming a Seattle Lair. Contact theloinking1@hotmail.com to get on their mailing list.
THE AUSTIN SOCIETY (AUSTIN, TEXAS)
The Austin Society is a group of friends, within the greater Austin/San Antonio area, improving their attraction and relationship skills through field work and study. If you are interested in joining and contributing to our group, email us at theaustinsociety@yahoogroups.com for more info. Open-minded gentlemen of all skill levels are welcome."
NEW ORLEANS LAIR FORMING:
Joseph is looking to set up or find a "mastermind group" of likeminded people and he is in the south MS area about 1.5 hours drive from New Orleans or the MS gulf coast. He would like to invite anyone in MS/LA/AL within driving distance to participate, and to help him to get it started. Contact him at: veuxdeux@yahoo.com
NYC:
Contact Marco, marcorulesinfinity@yahoo.com and get on their mailing list: NYCTSF-SUBSCRIBE@YAHOOGROUPS.COM
SAN DIEGO (TWO GROUPS NOW!):
1) The San Diego lair is now opening their doors to potential new members for the next 30 days. If interested in joining the San Diego lair please contact Nightlife at nightlife@playboylifestyle.net
2) Pete M., and Nightlife have formed another seduction group in San Diego. This is to benefit guys who are interested in Pick Up who live or frequent San Diego. It is a group that is modeled after the LA P-L-A-Y list. To join send an email to SD-P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com It is open to everyone in San Diego.
SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA LAIR:
We have a very active group in the San Francisco area dedicated to improving their game. All skill levels and types of game welcome. We have meetings once every 6 weeks or so, and numerous SARGE outings. We also have top PUA's share their knowledge with us when they come to San Francisco. Our list traffic is low but valuable. Lots of field reports and feedback. To join send an email to sf_morpheus_x@yahoo.com, and mention you heard about us on Cliff's list.
DETROIT LAIR:
New lair starting in Detroit area. Guys of all skill levels are welcome but MUST be SERIOUS about learning. The group will be interactive and do field work also.
Any one willing to learn or teach is welcome. Send Greg an email saying your interested at Grgreg_2001@yahoo.com
HOUSTON:
www.houstonlair.com Members of the Lair meet regularly, actively apply and improve their skills and are eager to teach success. Contact: xmlenigma, bashev can be reached at xmlenigma@yahoo.com, rnkayab@hotmail.com
MELBOURNE, AUSTRALIA:
Turning KJs into Active PUA
Members meet twice weekly with approximately 200+ registered members. Currently run mini study groups on Mystery Method, Gunwitch Method, Juggler, SS. We usually meet out in the field and streets so there is plenty of field practice. Our Sarge-Fest is a great learning night for newbies where some of Australias best PUA coach you to improve your game. We also organize other activities such as Salsa dance nights for our members and we encourage our members to contribute back to the community to help it grow. The lair currently runs its own forum so come join this active lair.
Contact iceman at melb.lair.autoreply@gmail.com. See Melb-Lair.com
AUCKLAND, NEW ZEALAND
Philip has started a LAIR for those who live in the upper North Island of New Zealand (Auckland, Hamilton, Tauranga, etc). There are already 4 of them who have been meeting regularly in Auckland, and they welcome others to be in touch. SSer's from elsewhere in New Zealand are also welcome to email to share experiences and form a network. Contact: philip@toeb.co.nz
MIAMI:
Contact Jerry at trudelle@email.com to attend.
LONDON, ENGLAND
The London Seduction Society www.thelss.com
AMSTERDAM:
Contact Big Bear groups.yahoo.com/group/nllounge/
The main purpose of the Lair is to help Wingmen to get in touch with each other and "in field" action! Membership open to anyone who lives in Holland or Belgium, or is a frequent visitor. However membership policy is strict.
PERTH, AUSTRALIA:
The Perth lair is a small group of people who SARGE regularly several times a week. At the moment, I'm actively looking for new members to join us on our outings (the more the merrier!). Anyone wishing to go sarging with us any day of the week should email me at tnejad@hotmail.com to meet up.
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Blake Richards has put out a new ebook that looks very interesting. Check it out here: www.social-mastery.com/Game.html
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Real Social Dynamics WORKSHOPS:
I highly recommend that you check these guys out. They are in the final stages of producing their long-awaited e-book as well as a redesign of their website.
Anyone interested in attending their seminars and/or workshops, email Papa at papa@realsocialdynamics.com with the subject "WORKSHOP" and mention that you heard about it from Cliff's List.
Real Social Dynamics (www.realsocialdynamics.com/ ):
Learn what works in seminar, and then jump directly into the field and watch the instructors demonstrate and teach it live. Stop feeling the fear of not knowing what to do ...
Individualized Bootcamps
Sign up and get more info here: www.realsocialdynamics.com/):
More info also available by sending an email to: support@relsocialdynamics.com
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The Venusian Art Society is dedicated to the pursuit of Relationship Mastery.
We have started a Yahoo group in each city our members are located in Denver,Houston, and Atlanta. You can register for membership by going to Yahoo and joining V_A_S_D or V_A_S_A or V_A_S_H. Be sure to include your experience in the Venusian Arts as well as what you hope to get out of them.
This forum will serve as a way to discuss any and all issues related to the Venusian Arts, from cold approach to relationship management. We welcome all active participants in the Venusian arts from any of the various schools such as MM, SS, DYD, etc..
This will be a controlled forum so feel free to post anything you want as long as it is directly relatable to the Venusian Arts. This is not a classified board or a place to advertise.
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New Dating/Seduction Seminars & Workshop in Montreal by DOC!
Doc, who many of you know from his great interview here last time and all too rare but outstanding posts on this list, on Mystery's Lounge, and the Montreal Lair, is bringing his seminars and speed dating events to Montreal. Previously they were mainly held in Toronto as part of the Learning Annex, Doc is now setting it up here and plans to hold events on a monthly basis.
The website is www.lifeskillsnetwork.ca. Registrations available on the website. The events are Dating Secrets for Women, a 3 Hour seminar (cost $50) and Dating Secrets for Guys; a Guide to The Art of Dating (also 3 hours and $50). There will also be a speed dating event in the evening for $50. You can contact Doc by email at seduction.school@sympatico.ca.
The fall calendar has a full weekend seminar and makeover. He also has 3 new books coming out this fall under the SETNA Dating Manual Series. Volume I (to be released this week) deals with the psychology of attraction, first impressions, and working on your inner game, Volume II (coming in September) deals with tactics and strategies to go from meeting her to dating her, and Volume III will deal with Managing Relationships.
Full-weekend Dating Makeover workshops will be offered soon (including a half day with a personal stylist, video tape analysis of body language, and live practice sessions with dating coaches beautiful women who will give the guys on the spot feedback on how they come across and what to improve). If there is a group of 10 or more guys interested in a seminar (or 5 guys for a workshop, he would consider making a special trip to their city).
This is a great opportunity to learn from a real master.
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Mystery Method Workshops:
What method are YOU using?
If you are opening groups (or sets: 2-sets, 3-sets, mixed sets, etc) of people with the 3 second rule by stacking indirect openers (including false opinion openers), false time constraining (discovered by Style), demonstrating a higher value to your romantic interest’s peer group with high octane DHVs while she obliquely observes (locking her into her own set with a prop), and simultaneously performing false disqualifiers (which include negs) on her with the intension of disarming her peergroup and then isolating her to rebuild her self-esteem once you have enough IOIs (indicators of interest) so you may share in a comfort and trust building effort and then build in a jealousy subplot to solidify her attraction for you, you are using The Mystery Method.
If instead you are only approaching women who are alone, you are greatly limiting your options and quite likely alienating your target's friends. Do you want a lonely woman (why is she lonely?) or a woman who already has a healthy social lfe? Truth is, healthy women have healthy relationships ... sometimes good friendships with guys. Like it or not, you will have to meet these women with men in her group.
Women of beauty are rarely found alone. Don't miss the opportunity to meet and attract them WITH social proof from her very own peergroup. Group Approach Theory (GAT - created by me) improves your options and increases the chances for attraction DRAMATICALLY over Single Approach Theory (SAT).
The guys who are GREAT in this game KNOW that they can improve their game ten-fold through seminars and personal coaching in-field workshops. Think about this: Why did so many of the greats who use my GAT (Style, Tyler D., MTL_PUA, and others) take my seminars and workshops? What started them off to greatness in this game? Can you see the co-relation may in fact be a causation?
If you have NEVER taken a seminar or workshop before, it's time to finally reconsider. They are life-transforming. I have conducted dozens of them. I am currently conducting a bootcamp and will accept only 5 people. Workshops and seminars were for many of the greats THE difference between great success and failure. If you are ready, give me a call and sign up. If you have any questions, give me a shout at 323-219-8696 (Mystery) because email sucks, or visit www.mysterymethod.com/"> www.Mysterymethod.com and email me your #. We need to talk. Man to man.
NEW: Attraction Magic
Content: In the Attraction Magic Seminar, Mystery will teach you the magical illusions most useful in picking up women. In addition to rune casting and sleight of hand, he will teach you to vanish coins, rings, jewelry and other small objects. You will also be taught how to move objects without touching them and how to "read" minds. As I'm sure you can imagine, magic is a superb DHV. Captivating and impressing an entire group of people goes a long way in raising your social value in the eyes of women. If there is one thing that Mystery knows more about than women, it is magic.
www.mysterymethod.com/schedule.htm
Tenmagnet is doing Mystery Method workshops in Toronto and Montreal.
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DR. PAUL SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT:
We are officially announcing the "Dating and Relationship
Special Forces Training Camp", a seminar with Dr. Paul, the creator of the latest and most powerful technology for dating and relationships. Check the new Blog for the latest news or go to www.1shoppingcart.com/app/?af=531857/"> doctorpaul.net/products.htm .
Have you ever done quite well with sexual attraction but then found yourself dating or even in a relationship with someone totally not meant for you? Have you been through a breakup and not learned the three core lessons that MUST be pulled from the wreckage? Have you ever wondered where dating ends and (gulp) real love begins? Has your dating life helped or hurt your career? Your non-dating relationships? This is the SPECIAL FORCES TRAINING CAMP for DATING and RELATIONSHIPS.
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The new technology (DatingOS) Dr. Paul is unleashing on the world completely explains what your hangups are, not only in "hooking up" or "approaching," but through the dating process and deep into relationships. This doesn't exist anywhere else, nor will it, because Dr Paul has gone through twenty years of both psychiatric clinical training, seen 15,000 patients with problems of both a "dating" nature, AND comprehensively solves deep problems that people have with sexual attraction, commitment, marriage, breakups, relationships, trauma, depression, anxiety disorders, ADD, OCD, career complications, cheating and betrayal.
If you want permanent RESULTS, you may need some real science, and the same fun time you have at other seminars of course, with more mastery of ALL psychology of dating—INNER GAME, OUTER GAME, and never before seen PROFILING of women for perfect fit to your personality.
So far, DatingOS has only been available in person, at seminars in the heart of the city of SINGLES, in summertime after a bitter winter has all females in a frenzy of cabin fever.
Join us by contacting shauna@http://www.1shoppingcart.com/app/?af=531857 or see the announcement on doctorpaul.net/products.htm
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Greetings everyone,
I wanted to take this opportunity to announce that I will be leading my storytelling program on August 12
This is the supercharged version of the infamous DJ Storytelling program of Cliff's List Convention fame and the one that I used to teach around the country...all newly redesigned to include my insights of the last year on how to convey your stories in a way that touches others emotionally.
I'm not very sophisticated with this stuff so while a super uber successful PUA businessmen who you all know would tell me to build a website and put the details there...and just include a link in my postings, I'm probably too lazy to actually do that.
So here's part of what we'll cover:
• Learn to tweak "How you are" to reflect who you are and still be attractive to the women you really want.
• Storytelling! Through a series of intensive partner and group exercises, you will find your best experiences and learn to convey them. We’ll explore hook words, tonality, endings, threading, and how to be captivating. I will show you how and you will create a highly polished story.
• Understanding how experiences you’ve already had can be a vehicle to convey who you are as well as your most attractive characteristics. You already have an interesting life, learn to convey it.
· Special guest speakers
· Exclusive discounts on MM and CEIC Products.
PLUS A SPECIAL SECTION ON UNDERSTANDING THE FEMALE MIND AND HOW TO COMMUNICATE WITH IT IN WAYS THAT IT WILL UNDERSTAND. This seminar is inner game intensive, so be ready…and you will leave with A HIGHLY POLISHED STORY AS WELL AS A MODEL TO USE FOR ALL OF YOUR STORIES.
I have a much more detailed flier that I'm happy to email to you if you'd like. Contact me at