The decision is ALWAYS in her court
This is Cliff's Private List, a free e-mail relating to seduction. Your contributions of articles, field reports, reviews and other comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from people commenting are separated by HHHHHH with each commentator's name preceding each comment. Comments from previous emails are preceded by an ">", usually in front of that commentator's name). Feel free to forward this email to all your friends and encourage them to request a free subscription by going to www.cliffslist.com and click on "Subscribe." You can also unsubscribe on the site as well. If you would like to be added to the free joke list (and mention if you do not want to receive the adult emails that come with the joke list), send an email to cliff@cliffslist.com. All posts you see here have been submitted by the author, or permission granted by the author to be reposted here. All emails with comments should be sent to cliff@cliffslist.com. If you are reading this as an email, you want to go to www.cliffslist.com and see the entire email, which includes Lair listings (see if there is one in your city or start one if there isn't), promotional notices, seminar notices, new product and website announcements - and lots more. This email has been edited and modified to allow it to pass through the various email filters - the unedited version is on the website.
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DID YOU MISS THE 2005 ASSEMBLY OF PICK UP ARTISTS, LADIES MEN, & DATING EXPERTS? You are in luck!!
The Cliff's List Convention 2005 DVD's are NOW available. Go to www.cliffslistconvention.com and get your copy. Don't miss this outstanding record of a magical event where the best in the World pulled out their "A" games and presented the highest quality information seen anywhere. Featured speakers include Mystery, Style, Tyler Durden, Dave M., Steve Piccus, Will, Cameron Teone, Dr. Alex, David Shade, Doc, Toecutter, Zan, Brent, Bishop, Patty, David DeAngelo, Lance Mason, and more, including the first Threesome Panel! The reviews have been phenomenal, all confirming that this is the product to take your game to the next level.
2006 DVDs Coming Soon! VERY SOON!!!
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PROMOS:
See the on-line version of this email at www.cliffslist.com (click on "Letter") for details about the following - scroll down to the Promo section:
- LayGuide was the original inspiration for Neil Strauss to write "The Game" and is still the most thorough and continually updated collection of the best dating, attraction and seduction tips in the world: www.layguide.com/
- Grant Adams has a special ebook offer THIS WEEK ONLY that you can read all the details of in the on-line version of this email or you can go to: www.net2bed.com/v2/december/special_howtoreadawoman.php
- In The Game by Neil Strauss, "TwoTimer" is talked about as one of the top players. His more commonly known handle is IN10SE, and his "Octoberman Sequence" has been whispered about and become a LEGEND in the on-line Pickup artist community. It's rumored to give a woman ULTIMATE pleasure and you ULTIMATE control - in as little as 15 minutes! Only the BEST of the BEST know it. Check it out here: www.octoberman.com/
- PUAtraining.com offers training events in London, England and in Scandinavia. Our approach is quite different. We have a core system that we believe forms the basis of any pickup. It is simple enough to understand within 30 minutes. We then teach optional elements like NLP
, C&F, push-pull, etc. that can be added in based on your personality. Come to our website, www.puatraining.com for free advice, to see pics of our girls, and to check out what we have to offer.
- Allow me to Re-Introduce Myself......My name is Will H.(As seen on Cliff's List and David D) and I approve this message. It looks like the buzz has begun. You can get the recording here: www.youaresoinmyway.com/will_interview.html The tip about the TEXT message is a Will Daddy CLASSIC! Also visit my site: www.youaresoinmyway.com
- Which PUA would you like to hear answer YOUR most pressing questions about Pick-Up? Captain Jack (of www.betheseducer.com) is planning to interview the PUA you most want to hear from in a totally FREE 70-90 Minute Teleseminar. To nominate your favorite PUA and get more info on the event just go to:
www.askdatabase.com/gt/askfast.php?a=28521
- Scot McKay of X & Y Communications has just announced his monthly audio series entitled "Power Sessions For Men". This series is dedicated to men who wish to dive deeper beyond basic approach and pickup--and even beyond the simple ability to get beautiful women--into the advanced world of attaining the "holy grail" of total control over one's dating life. Earning the right to be the man with the highest quality woman in the room anywhere and everywhere he goes is the end goal. Check out Scot's program at www.deservewhatyouwant.com/
- Ron Louis & David Copeland have published a new book on how to get the women you desire to pursue you by being the "Hard to Get Man." Find out more at: howtosucceedwithwomen.com/htg/index.html
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Mystery Method Coming to Montreal:
Here's a list of the upcoming seminar:
Montreal, Canada, Jan 19-21, led by Tenmagnet - $2,150 ($950 deposit)
For more info: www.themysterymethod.com/?kbid=2614<img border="0"src="affiliate.themysterymethod.com/b.aspx?id=2614&mm=7
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Pickup 101 Coming to Montreal!
Art of Attraction Workshop March 9-11, 2007
Art of Rapport Workshop March 16-18, 2007
For more info: www.pickup101.com/
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Christophe suggests you check out Fifty Mistakes Women Make When Having Sex: tweekerchick.blogspot.com/2006/11/so.html
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Johnny Soporno (www.seductivereasoning.com):
How can you turn a girl friend into a girlfriend?
Many of you have female friends whom you've known for a long-time platonically. However, since you're guys, there have almost certainly been moments where you would have loved to have changed that status - even if just for fun, for sport, or a lightweight fcuk-buddy setup.
So I have written up something I hope can help you all in this situation - It has surely worked wonders for me, for many years.
Oh, I ran this by a giggle of girlfriends who ALL, UNIFORMLY agreed with me - but this ONLY works with REAL friendships... it is NOT for girls whom you've only befriended because you couldn't get them to sleep with you.... So with that in mind:
Women want to have fun. Women want to have sex.
(TURNS OUT THEY ACTUALLY ENJOY IT! Who knew!?)
This may include 'Recreational-Only Sex' with MEN THEY KNOW THEY CAN TRUST!
Naturally, anyone they consider truly a friend would fall into that category - BUT NO ONE WANTS TO RISK LOSING A FRIEND! Therefore most women won't chance beginning a sexual relationship where there is currently a solid friendship.
THEREFORE IT IS ESSENTIAL that the girl understands she absolutely won't lose your friendship, either-way, and that YOU ARE OFFERING HER SOMETHING - NOT ASKING FOR ANYTHING!
The decision is ALWAYS in her court.
Most women have learned the hard-way that IF they sleep with a guy whom they respect, appreciate, and admire - BUT ARE NOT OVERLY TURNED ON BY - it will end badly, when the guy begins to wish to become their 'Boyfriend'. They will lose their opportunity to be 'Just Friends' with that guy once things sort themselves out, because HIS ego will be bruised and he won't be able to forgive her for the 'rejection' he feels.
IF YOU COMMUNICATE TO A FEMALE FRIEND IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS:
A ) YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED IN BEING HER BOYFRIEND, nor do you want her as 'your Girlfriend' -- 'cuz while the respect/friendship/admiration is there in abundance, the chemistry isn't a fit - there's no 'Romantic Crush" aspect for how you feel about her - Just true, real, justifiable appreciation, and that's enough!
B ) YOU ARE ALREADY HER FRIEND which makes her much more important and interesting than just someone you'd like to have sex with - and you wouldn't change that for the world; BUT.... You are a boy, and she is a girl, and that's a nice arrangement.
Try saying something like this to her: "You know I would NEVER fcuk-you-over... but I'd like to fcuk you over-and-over!"
(I have used this line for a decade with fantastic success - it's light and cute and funny and reassuring all at once)
C) YOU DEFINITELY DON'T WANT TO INTERFERE WITH HER PURSUIT OF 'MR. RIGHT' nor would you stop pursuing and sleeping with other girls... in fact, you'd appreciate any pointers or suggestions which would help your Game, and of course you'll be more than happy to hook her up with new guys you think might suit her...
D) YOU'RE GOING TO LEAVE THIS WITH HER - and there's truly no urgency at all - nothing will change between you either way; at least, not negatively ...but you know you'd be a fool not to let her know that you'd enjoy having friendly-fun-without-strings with her, and that she can rely upon you for non-judgemental acceptance.
That last bit, the 'non-judgemental acceptance', is a FANTASTIC OFFER for any woman. It guarantees her the security she craves, and relaxes the fears she may have about her reputation's being damaged by her taking you up on your offer.
REMEMBER, that's what's happening here: YOU ARE OFFERING HER SOMETHING SHE WANTS, and at a price she can afford! (i.e., fun sex with someone who will stick around, be loyal (though not exclusive!) and trustworthy, and IS her friend-for-real.)
My comfort in this Frame, the notion that WOMEN LOVE SEX, and would have lots more of it if they felt confident that their partners weren't going to disappear OR become Cling-ons, is absolute.
One caveat, again - YOU CAN ONLY OFFER THIS IF YOU TRULY WILL REMAIN FRIENDS WITH THE GIRL, EITHER WAY.
She might not immediately accept your offer; she might not agree for months, or until someone she's seeing flakes on her, breaks up with her, or whatever; or maybe NEVER. But if you are SINCERE, and nothing changes either way between you, you will rise in her esteem and SHE WILL consider it, subconsciously as well as consciously.
If you are faking, if you change your behaviour towards her once you make the offer, if you are trying to GET HER rather than offer yourself TO HER, she'll sniff it out, and you'll seriously drop in her estimation. Maybe costing you the friendship.
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Cerept:
Review of Michael the Dating Wizard (www.thedatingwizard.com/)
First of all Michael (The Dating Wizard) is about raising the self esteem of all involved when an approach/interaction with a woman takes place. It is not about tricking, using, hurting, capturing, or collecting. The essence is more to give off an air of confidence or superiority...that first makes you feel good...and as a result makes her feel attracted.
Superior means perceiving to the woman that he is controlled/not needy/a real catch. Like she expects weakness/neediness from the average male...along with masculine behavior..but the Superior Essence Michael is trying to show...is consistency with always being greater than the average man...or woman....IN PERCEPTION.
Not cruel, arrogant, controlling, whining, complaining, bossy or jealous....but more cool, calm, confident, hard to bother, and decisive...with little effort needed to impress.
Also from my understanding with what women do...it actually shows they believe they are inferior. Like they have to wear make up/dresses/bras/nails/shave legs/underarms/grow hair longer/be athletically weaker/smaller/sacrifice their bodies for babies/have periods/take men's names...etc. Plus leaders of countries are almost always male.
So for a guy to trick them...use them...does not display superiority...rather...it shows bitterness and/or disregard for another humans feeling/worth. But at the same time being overly nice/kissing up/get spellbound over a girl...doesn't represent superiority..either. It just shows you are needy and she is better than you...or you are worthless. And I believe Michael is about the in between. This from my point of view should be called THE RECIPE or BALANCE.
It is about being THE MAN...to encourage....The Woman...to be THE WOMAN. The player mentality is to be a wolf...or trickster/liar...collector of phone numbers...women you slept with. As if you grow by stringing women along. The nice guy mentality is about being like The Woman or like a particular woman is the ONLY ONE...with little evidence in personality. And in the guys I know and professionals I have seen either of these two are leaned on to some degree.
Michael points out there are a lot of low self esteem women out there that could encourage the wolf/player/hate women attitude. The thing is to AVOID women who demonstrate behavior like this. But at the same time every man needs to know women give shit tests...due to their anti-slut defense...partially testing your superiority. So just because a woman resists you some doesn't necessarily mean she has low self esteem.
And as you apply his techniques more and more you will be able to read women better on this. The thing is not to judge all women as the same...and hold one girl's problems...over another girl. It means to stay in the belief you are superior..regardless of her reaction...which means don't start buying stuff for her/calling all the time....to.... hating her/condemning women in general.
By listening to his CD's, newsletters and meeting him you can begin to get a foundation of how to get THE RECIPE/BALANCE/THE MAN attitude. He explains that attraction involves lots of different emotions coming out in a congruent way that creates this effect. He even says that it is natural...but people have been reprogrammed to think differently. For me it all makes sense and has saved me lots of money just to have this understanding...that men need not feel so helpless without a woman...because it is their inner self that makes them happy in the first place.
Women are just a reward for that. To be more specific...QUALITY WOMEN ARE A REWARD FOR THAT...not low self esteem women that you see on some of these dating shows (Extreme Dating/Survivor/Cheaters).
Anyway this is the gist of what Michael has taught me...but I would be glad to respond further if you have any questions.
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Carlos Xuma (www.alphaconfidence.com/):
MANAGING DREAD AND FEAR
I have something really interesting to share with you. It's an insight you're going to find incredibly valuable if you want to improve the quality of your life...
You're probably already aware that you've only got a fixed number of years here on this planet. For some of us, you've got a LOT of years. For others, it might only be just a few.
But you won't know for sure which camp you're in until the Grim Reaper comes to pay your check and hail your Eternal Cab.
In reality, no one REALLY knows how much life you've got left, or what happens after it.
For the sake of our discussion today, I'm going to guess you're somewhere between 20 and 40 years of age. That means you have about 40 to 60 years left to go for a healthy adult.
So if you knew you had only a fixed amount of time here, and you'd eventually be yanked out by the Universal Bouncer, how would you CHOOSE to spend that time?
The problem is, most of us don't really notice that there IS a deadline out there. And it's closer than you think.
I don't want to get all "doom and gloom" on you with this stuff, but this is important, so stick with me.
There's a quote on the show "The Sopranos" that stuck with me. It went something like this: "A man has good times and some really bad times in his life. And he just tries to find his pleasures where he can along the way."
Let me ask you this: Would you CHOOSE to live your life in fear?
Probably not.
But that's what a lot of guys are doing. I can guarantee that you're doing it in a few areas of your own life. You might not think of it as "choosing" to live in fear, but by not taking ACTION to remove the fear from your life, you're choosing by DEFAULT.
A recent article I saw pointed out the way in which risk and fear work together:
The risks that get excessive attention versus which get overlooked depends on a hierarchy of factors. One of the most important is DREAD.
For most creatures on earth, all death is created pretty much equal. Whether you're eaten by a tiger or fall off a cliff, your time in the herd is over.
That's not the way humans see things, though. We have the gift (and curse) of being able to contemplate our mortality. The more suffering or pain something causes us, the more we tend to fear it; the cleaner (or, hopefully, quicker) the death, the less it troubles us.
"We dread anything that poses a greater risk for cancer more than the things that injure us in a traditional way, like an auto crash," says Paul Slovic, professor of psychology at the University of Oregon. "That's the dread factor."
In other words, the more we dread, the more anxious we get. The more anxious we get, the less precisely we calculate the odds of a particular event actually happening to us.
The term for this is "probability neglect."
This happens in your life when you start to dread approaching a woman. You know what I mean, right?
We habituate - or start to ignore - any unpleasant stimulus, from pain and sorrow to your neighbor's screaming baby.
But in the case of approach, we keep feeling all tied up and sick to our stomachs when we can't just go over and talk to that hot blonde.
Why?
Why don't we let go of this fear and get over it?
There are two primary reasons. The first is because of UNCERTAINTY. We feel uncertain in every interaction with a woman, and when a guy puts his self-worth out there in the form of a woman's acceptance or rejection, we never get used to the risk of getting our egos bruised.
They've build up so much DREAD for this one action that - in reality - has NO real consequences beyond that which we imagine.
This risk/uncertainty is due, in a large part, to the fact that most guys don't go into an approach without figuring out A) a comfortable way to start the conversation, AND B) a comfortable way to END it.
You see, if you have both of those taken care of (I call them 'bookends') then you'll have no problem getting out of a conversation when you run out of steam.
In other words, you won't fear a situation that has minimal uncertainty in it.
Or, as I say...
CARLOS' RULE: You can handle any situation if you can manage the uncertainty of it to a minimal level.
The second reason we don't get past our fear is that so few men ever FACE IT to destroy it. Any fear you confront will diminish your dread of it. Exponentially every time.
You're just stuck on the wrong side of the dread, mon.
Now let me get back to my original point:
The reality is this: You're probably not going to die anytime soon. The odds aren't there. So you've probably got a good chunk of time on your hands.
Now if you live for even 30 more years, do you want to spend them NOT KNOWING how to approach and at-tract women?
If you don't meet her, you can't date her. It's pretty simple logic.
Do you want to continue as you are? Blinded by ego? Crippled by your mental blind spots?
Or are you prepared to make the next 40-60 years of your life into something FANTASTIC.
Are you prepared to get MAD GAME with women?
Make the resolution right now that you will not miss out on the opportunity to live your life the way you choose.
What else would you do with these years if not improve yourself to the level that DESERVES the woman you want?
Invest in yourself. Put your time and energy into the best source of opportunity you have - Your LIFE.
It will pay you dividends you never imagined...
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Milachku: Hey guys, here’s my review of Frank B. Kermit’s book Everything Out of Her Mouth is a Test. It’s a man’s guide to satisfying the emotional needs of women. Chapter 1:
In this chapter Frank covers his core beliefs in order for his reader to appreciate his basic theories on men, women and relationships that he presents throughout the rest of his book. While I found most of the chapter to be ground breaking, the idea that stuck out the most was the sophistication of a woman’s emotional circuitry. Here’s an example: 1. A woman meets a new man. She quickly becomes physically attracted to him. This is her first level of emotion.
2. Realizing that she is attracted to this man, she now starts feeling guilty because she has a boyfriend. This is her second level of emotion.
3. Then she starts to feel resentful indignation towards her boyfriend because she is feeling guilty for feeling attracted. This is her third level of emotion.
4. Now she may get feelings of uncertainty about her relationship with her boyfriend because she is feeling resentful indignation towards him, because she is feeling guilty for feeling attracted. This is her fourth level of emotion.
This can go on and on…. For some women at least.
The end result of this is that WHEN she will hit that final emotional level, it will be THAT emotional need that the man must address when she tests him.
Yes it is some pretty deep stuff right here, but at least it gives you an idea of why us men have a hard time understanding why women may act the way they do in some instances.
Chapter 2:
In my experiences, I noticed something about women whom I didn't end up dating but would make them my friend. I learned that a good female friend will make an active effort into hooking you up with other women, whereas a bad female friend will actually get jealous and even sabotage you hooking up just so that she can guarantee herself the most amount of attention from men. Unfortunately, most of my female friends have turned into the latter leaving me little choice but to ditch 'em...
Some of you may or may not be aware of Kermit's Lover vs. Mother Theory when explaining our relationships with women. In this chapter, he went into quite some detail about it. One of the paragraphs really stuck out (actually a lot of the paragraphs really stuck out so I was hard pressed to finally choosing one) for me here:
"A female friend is more of a "mother" to you than she will ever be a "lover". At this point, it is what kind of mother she is going to be for you. If she is useful, and helps you meet other women for you to potentially have sex with, she is a good mother. If she keeps you around to wash her car or to buy her stuff, but she is NOT useful when helping you meet other women for you to potentially have sex with, then she is a bad mother. If she is the latter, then dump her, or let one of your male friends fuck her, and get him to introduce you to one of his "bad" mothers."
I remember hearing stories about real mothers actually getting JEALOUS when their sons would be dating some women. I know it's an extreme case, but it helps illustrate Kermit's point. I guess now I have my first good screening question for a woman if I'm looking at possibly having her as a potential mother for my children:
"Are you the kind of girl that helps her guy friends hook up? Kinda like a match maker?"
Seems like an innocent question but it will say shit loads about the woman you are talking to. Also note that people who are often single tend to like keeping those around them single as misery loves company. Just some more food for thought...
Chapter 3:
In this chapter, Frank finally goes over the proverbial emotional needs that most women test for when interacting with a man. He makes it clear that all interactions between a man and a woman will display this dynamic and from it a woman will decide consciously or unconsciously whether she will be that man's lover or mother symbolically.
The ten emotional needs were covered in Frank's first book (From Loser to Seducer), but now he went into much more detail giving examples of real life experiences of himself and people he knows to illustrate how and why they are there.
Of interesting note, at the end of explaining each emotional need is that once you pass it you MUST ALSO HAVE SEX HER(or at least make an attempt) for the emotional need(s) to have fully been satisfied. This is why Kermit has taught us that when you DON'T have sex with a woman when the opportunity arises then you risk violating ALL TEN emotional needs and that nasty back rationalization that women do can come and bite you in the ass...
A lot of the things said in this chapter (like his earlier chapters) coincide my own life experiences. Examples include:
--> Don't mix the catering the little girl inside her emotional need WHILE having sex. Before and after is ok, but doing it DURING sex is bad. I had a gf in the past that would still call me those cutie names during sex (she did have clingy issues) and for some reason the sex wasn't as passionate. I now understand why.
--> This issue of fear of abandonment can be about 50% of the reason why some women will give heavy LMR. Even if a woman knows it's a ONS, she still has to feel that she is unique to you in some way.
--> Most men in this day and age can't handle a woman's honesty about who she really is. Being able to handle a woman's honesty takes more practice than you'd imagine.
--> Women have to be picky about the men they lay for reasons most of us understand. Not only do men not have to deal with those same issues, but the best way for the man to pass his genes on is to lay as many women as possible. It ALMOST doesn't matter who. I guess when you get to the point where it becomes a high quality problem then you start to raise your standards considerably. But the bottom line is that real alpha males have sex with most women. And, in the end, the experience this lends itself to will teach you what you need to know when it comes time (if it does) to finding and keeping that woman you truly want to settle down with.
-->I never realized that women were so worried about their man being secretly an "in the closet homosexual" and the repercussions that could come of it. Looking back in life, not only can I think of times where a woman may have tested me on this, but that some of those tests were so harsh that they could even be emasculating/castrating. Although, that could come under the emotional need of dominance as well.
So far, this book is a very smooth read with a lot of points that stick out so finish up the last few smaller chapters should go rather well for me.
Chapter 4:
In this chapter Frank gives out his favorite tried and true methods for addressing a woman's emotional needs. Most of us have seen such methods mentioned in other seduction programs but what really helps is how Frank gives real life examples of these. I was able to relate to most of his experiences which made for some good reading. Here are some highlights:
--> Being playful: Agreeing with what she says and then exaggerating it. This kinda reminds me of one guy's ideas of handle accusative women.
--> "When you see that girls you like, that is the sign that you need to use LOTS more sincere vulnerability in your communication." This really strikes home with me...
--> Picking a fight: Well, luckily I get pissed real easy so maybe this is one of the reasons why I often maintain my power in relationships... read the chapter for more details. But, Frank does mention about certain backlashes or consequences that can come from this depending on the woman you are with and this has also been my experience as well. Also, his info on using misinterpretation here is real gold.
--> He covers a lot of information on when to give a woman attention, specifically through touching her. And these ideas seem that they would be very applicable to 9's and 10's whom may being "acting" seductive with you.
Chapter 5:
The emotional cookie man: I used to be here back in the day, and Frank points out some real key points to watch out for in order to prevent yourself from ever being classified as such by a woman ever again. It's a short chapter but I will point something out:
-->Key point: Is she giving you more attention than you already earned? Yes? This is emotional cookie territory,....
Chapter 6:
Why women date violent jerks. In this chapter, Frank covers why some women go for jerks. He covers a lot of complex deep seated issues that surround this "paradox". I thought I understood a lot of such reasons but there is more to it than even most PUA's would imagine. At some points he covers things that now make perfect sense but at other times some of the ideas seem to be out of my reach. I won't go over specific examples here because some of them are quite personal as how they pertain to my life experiences.
Final Overall Review:
The best way I can describe Frank's writing style is to that of Ernest Hemingway. Hemingway's writings are best described as deceptively simplistic. What I mean is that the reading is actually quite smooth and you can flow from page to page quite easily as the choice of words he uses won't make your brain hurt or water your eyes from complexity. But, at the same time there are always deeper important issues that he is addressing. Frank's work here is easy to read through but he covers very important and complex topics.
I don't know how many guys have bought this book but it seems to me that most haven't read through it. You're really missing out here if you don't invest some time in this book. A lot of the concepts he presents have been presented in other PU philosophies but no one puts it all together in the way Frank does, and especially not how he keeps things as simple as possible so that it's easy to learn and readily applicable.
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PROMOS & REVIEWS SECTION (there are NO paid ads in this list and never have been. The "commercial" section is distinguished by the "--------------" separators):
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LAIR SECTION (Lairs are gatherings of PUA's of differing levels and talents that meet in different cities to discuss their experiences and to work together to improve their success with women). More Lair Listings can be found at dutchseduction.blogspot.com/ and at www.bristollair.com, as well as at www.seductionlair.com:
A YAHOO GROUP FOR THOSE RUNNING LAIRS:
If and ONLY if you are running a lair there is now a Yahoo Group for organization ideas for PUA groups. As each lair is different, this group lets us know what other lairs are doing. No seduction related topics are discussed, just organization ideas. To join please email RunningaPUAgroup-subscribe@yahoogroups.com and then email Nightlife at nightlife858@yahoo.com with an intro of who you are and what Lair you are running. You can also go to: groups.yahoo.com/group/RunningaPUAgroup/
LAIR GROUP
If you run a lair or are considering starting one, join this group to exchange ideas with the rest of the community and keep informed of community activities. www.LairList.com Contact: LairList@LairList.com
Lair List is an official directory of lairs worldwide. The Lair List Foundation is an international nonprofit cooperation of lair owners. LairList.com is completely nonprofit. LairList.com is 100% non-commercial. If you run a lair or are considering starting one, register your lair here lairlist.com/index.php?option=com_comprofiler&task=registers. Join this group (lounge.lairlist.com/) to exchange ideas with the international lair community. Get the latest seduction news from around the world (www.lairlist.com/).
HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE MONTREAL LAIR:
- Lair meetings are scheduled currently one a month on Sundays at 8 pm and but the next Lair meeting will be Thursday, January 18 with a special guest speaker. For more info on joining the Lair (local only, sorry), email me. Out of town bros are welcome to drop in to meetings.
The Lair meetings are very insightful gatherings of guys interested in learning, improving, and helping others to become more successful in their relationships with women. If you are already in a relationship, and you continue to read these emails, you should realize that there is information here to improve and enhance your existing relationship - not only to create new ones.
Here is a list of other Lairs around the world (if you know of any others, please let me know):
MONTREAL JUNIOR LAIR FOUNDED!
Montreal Junior Lair: The Montreal X-Lair has been founded to help minors (who are not permitted to join the Montreal Lair until they are 18) get together and communicate. Lair applications would be sent to MontrealXLair@hotmail.com.
THE TORONTO LAIR
The Toronto Lair is called TSN or Toronto Social.net. Anyone who gets to the homepage at www.TorontoSocial.net./ can email the webmaster to get information. If that's not an option, they can call Ike at: 416-628-9973 or his cell at: 416-300-6500.
Vancouver Social Board
A tight and good group of guys from various backgrounds who want to learn how to become better with women. We have two rules 1) this is not a competition, we are here to help each other and 2) you must be willing to try. We go out very regularly and have some skilled guys.
Visit Yahoo Group: groups.yahoo.com/group/vancouversocialboard/ Contact: Docandwriter (docandwriter@shaw.ca)
Victoria Social society
This is an open group for all you Victorian men (Victoria, British Columbia, Canada)who wish the study and pursue the art of seduction.
Visit Yahoo Group:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/victoriasocialsociety/
Contact: Docandwriter (docandwriter@shaw.ca)
Calgary Social Group
This is the Calgary PUA Lair for men (young and old) who want to get together to discuss PU and go sarging in Calgary. This group is meant to enrich the lives of men and, I believe ,women indirectly. Everyone can learn and it's only the lack of support and positive influence that cause people to stop trying. Here we can all grow as men and learn the skills we need to accomplish our goals.
Visit Yahoo Group: groups.yahoo.com/group/calgarysocialgroup/
Contact: Elantraman (elantraman2002@yahoo.com) or Docandwriter (docandwriter@shaw.ca)
NEW LAIR FORMING IN MILWAUKEE:
I am going to be starting a new lair consisting of only the Milwaukee and surrounding areas naturals. I feel like with this caliber of a Lair only success is an option. This is going to be a bunch of guys meeting up sporatically for sarging and for schedualed meetings. If you feel you qualify and can positively impact our group, email me at allimalgam@aol.com .
AUSTRIAN PLAYERS
Home of the legendary EuroSummit 2005, most diverse members from total beginners to serial layers from Austria, Germany and Switzerland. Join us! (If you happen to ravel by, drop us a line!) Visit: www.austrianplayers.com Contact: Neodes@austrianplayers.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN AMSTERDAM/HOLLAND:
The lair can be found at groups.yahoo.com/group/Amsterdam_Dating/
NEW LAIR FORMING IN PORTLAND, MAINE
I'm starting a lair in Portland, Maine so we can truly be "the way life should be"!
Starting with a dozen AFCs & PUAs and looking to grow and share our skills.
Send email to magickman@maine.rr.com if you wish to join.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN MISSISSIPPI/ALABAMA
I'm starting up a lair in MS/AL for anyone in driving distance to the Birmingham area. Contact blake1_19@yahoo.com for anyone interested in joining.
SALT LAKE CITY AND SURROUNDING AREAS
AFCs to PUAs. Meet and share seduction tips. We meet once a week and help push members to become the man they desire!
Contact UtahX at utahrafc@gmail.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN NORFOLK-VIRGINIA BEACH, VIRGINIA
I'm interested in starting a Seduction Lair in the Norfolk-Virginia Beach area. If anyone is interested, please email me. Thanks,
Stingray9001 stingray9001@yahoo.com
NEW LAIR FORMED IN DENVER
Denver Lair is a community for Denver/Boulder/Colorado area PUAs to wing, talk about the game and make friends in the community. If you're in the Colorado, join our yahoo-group: groups.yahoo.com/group/denver_puas/
NEW LAIR FORMING IN RICHMOND, VIRGINIA
Hi, I'm starting a lair in Richmond, Virginia, the state capitol with a rather big scene. Currently all gamers in Richmond are forced to go up to DC, or down to North Carolina if they wish to attend a lair meeting. I would like to keep that experience at home, as we have many beautiful women in this wonderful city. Send an email to miikey723@yahoo.com if you wish to join.
EUROPE LAIR FOUNDED
Red Priest has founded the Europe Lair. You can find the description here:
http//groups.yahoo.com/group/europelair/
ISRAEL LAIR:
For the Israel Lair, Tironut 69, go to www.tironut69.com
DUNEDIN, NEW ZEALAND LAIR FORMING
For all you Otago students (or campus orbiters) who think you got game! This will be the southernmost lair in the world. Run by an RAFC with a fair bit of bookwork and small experience- any skill level you want, just prepared to approach, talk and try out new stuff. Email me at beest.goes.roar@gmail.com, and will see if we can't get a local lair started. it's time to bring the game to the deep south!
WELLINGTON, NEW ZEALAND LAIR:
An active lair is up and running in Wellington, NZ. Primary focus is going out and working in the field. All skill levels are welcome. Anybody who wants to join constructive, like-minded people in persuing the PUA lifestyle. We have a forum, and a bunch of friendly people who can wing with you to get you off of the ground; email Matt via moxyfmac@gmail.com
TAMPA BAY AND ST. PETE, FLORIDA:
We started a new Lair in the Tampa Bay area. All styles welcome. e-mail us at paradigmaman@yahoo.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN GENEVA
We want to create a Lair in Geneva, Switzerland. It would be open to French and English speaking people living in Geneva and neighbouring cities like Lausanne and France as well willing to meet and seduce women. All skill levels and ages are accepted. The main task of the Lair will be field experiences on a regular basis. Contact Julien at : Julien72@bluewin.ch
NEW GROUP FOR CHICAGO
Chicago Wingman Meetup Group which currently holds meetings on the first Saturday of every month at 3:00 pm, the place will be disclosed to members once they sign up for the group. The website address is wingman.meetup.com/18/ - this group is combining with the Chicago Lair, whose contact was Eric at theprogen2003@yahoo.com Since they've just starting to hold meetings, they have a flexible format but as they get more organized they plan to have guest speakers. Anyone who knows a local PUA (not self proclaimed) is encouraged to invite him/ her over to share ideas. Please post all org issues under www.fastseduction.com/cities/Chicago
NEW LAIR FOR EDMONTON
*The Mastermind* The Mastermind is a highly exclusive Pick Up Artist Lair. Based out of Edmonton, Canada we assist guys who are serious and motivated to improve their Pick Up Artist game. We’re located at groups.yahoo.com/group/edpualair/ You can also email: manofadventure@jasons-world.com
SAN RAFAEL, CALIFORNIA
The Seduction Lair is up and running in San Rafael, California. Contact activte@aol.com for more information.
PARIS PICK UP CLUB
Formed by a group of FRIENDLY motivated guys from all nationalities with some solid game. The Paris Pick Up Club (PPC) is where all the PUA's and RAFC's BROTHERS living in Paris can share experiences, wing with different people and practice techniques. The goal is to IMPROVE our GAME while having lots of FUN. Since the purpose of the PPC is to practice, in order to join, future members must be available to SARGE regularly. Contact alfaztec@yahoo.com
BELGIUM: NL Lounge at dutchseduction.com
An independent platform for the phenomenon known as "seduction" in the Dutch language with members in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, Belgium and points beyond. Founded in 1999, we are one of the first international groups dedicated to seduction. Our purpose is to help members meet one another and share information and experience. Write to passie at passie@gmail.com Visit our Website: www.DutchSeduction.com
NETHERLANDS: NL Lounge at dutchseduction.com An independent platform for the phenomenon known as "seduction" in the Dutch language with members in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, Belgium and points beyond. Founded in 1999, we are one of the first international groups dedicated to seduction. Our purpose is to help members meet one another and share information and experience. Write to passie at passie@gmail.com Visit our Website: www.DutchSeduction.com
NEW LAIR IN NEW ORLEANS
There is a new Lair in New Orleans and here is the info:
groups.yahoo.com/group/NewOrleansPlayers/ - MIKEALW@HOTMAIL.COM.
Description: This group is for guys in the New Orleans area who are studying the Double your Dating material by David DeAngelo. This group is to get and give advice, to share your experiences and results, and to hook up with other guys so you can go out and work on your game together. Anyone in the New Orleans area is welcome from inexperienced to PUA's.
NEW LAIR IN SINGAPORE
The Singapore Lair is a community for guys interested in improving their skills in meeting and attracting/seducing women. This group is mainly for guys who live in or travel to Singapore, although PUAs from other countries are also welcome. Membership is restricted to doers only -- you must be in the field and have real field experience. No armchair theorists allowed. To join this group, email singaporelair-owner@yahoogroups.com with your name, background and experience.
DALLAS LAIR
The Dallas Seduction Lair has been around for over a year now. We have had 18 official events of both discussion and seminar style events. As well as countless nights of sarging with newfound wingmen by our members. We are now over 120 members strong. Anyone at any skill level with a desire to learn is welcome. More information at: wingman.meetup.com/6/ or www.DallasSeductionLair.com
DALLAS PUA
DallasPua.com is formed from the spirit of helping my fellow brothers become better in their sarging skills of women and of life; to develop their individual integrity. The site offers many free features such as a forum ( www.dallaspua.com/forum ), personal journals/blogs, extensive resource page, and more. It is based out of Dallas, but the tailored PUA features are available to anyone. This is your site! For more info go to www.DallasPua.com
HUNGARIAN LAIR FORMING
Hungarian Lair (Budapest) invites all visiting and local people for a great time of sarging in Budapest clubs and streets. We field test MM, SS, RSD, Maniac Plan and various other stuff. Contact us at redpriest_hu@yahoo.com!"
NEW LAIR FORMING IN ITALY:
Our goal is to have a lot of FUN! Why did we create a Lair? To keep in touch with each other and to rock the Italian scene, we want to live like rockstars since we know we DESERVE IT. We have had enough of all the boring guys and loser boyfriends out there that are making women's lives a nightmare when they are waiting for US, the playboys. Join us and we will share with you a lot of secrets that you need to know to totally transform your life life and get more choice not only in life but with every relationship. In order to learn you must be willing to go out with us and try new stuff asking to yourself: "What is possible? What if I get the results I only dreamed of and then even more than that?" Send an email at italy_lair@yahoo.com to join.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN NORWICH (UK):
The Norwich Lair is a group for pickup artists in Norwich (UK) and the surrounding areas. The lair meets every Saturday night , 10PM in Norwich
City. The group is not a talking shop, if you want to remain in the lair you must participate in fieldwork every 90 days. To join the group, send an email to thenorwichlair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
OHIO LAIR FORMED:
An Ohio Lair has just been created for ASFers located in Ohio. I'm hoping to have regular sarging meetings at different cities in Ohio and regular guest speakers. Any ASFer in Ohio who is interested in joining please email me an intro of yourself to philonous03@yahoo.com.
VIRGINIA/CAROLINA LAIR GROUP
The VAC (Virginia Carolina) Lair is a community for Virginia and Carolina area PUAs to talk about the game, make friends in the community, and meet up with wings in the area. Current members are located in the Charlotte, Blacksburg/Radford, and Raleigh/Chapel Hill areas. While those from outside this area are encouraged to participate, most events will likely be held within these areas. The VAC Lair is open to all levels from Beginner to PickUp Artist (PUA). Just come with a desire to learn, a willingness to share what you know, and a commitment to field test what you learn. groups.yahoo.com/group/vaclair/
NEW YORK CITY LAIR:
New York City Team Strike Force - The oldest lair in the U.S. and the only one that can lay claim to having dedicated instructors of reputation on staff, just for the members. Very organized, very respected and very strong sense of community, as well as life balance. You know you want us. Visit @ www.nyclair.com Please email admin@nyclair.com to request information about membership.
SECOND NEW YORK LAIR STARTED:
With the help of a few friends, Strongbad has started a lair in NYC. Send an email to either strongbadpua@yahoo.com or
NY-PLAY-subscribe@yahoogroups.com to join if you live in the NY area.
BLOOMINGTON LAIR STARTED:
The Bloomington, IN lair for guys interested in attraction/seduction. This is a group made for guys that want to discuss techniques, inner game, make
new friends, and meet up with wings in the Bloomington area. If your interested in subscribing email: b-lair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
AUCKLAND, NEW ZEALAND LAIR
Anyone living in Auckland (New Zealand) are welcome to join this bad ass lair. It's consantly growing, we have guys with all sorts of experience levels with diverse styles of game. We SARGE regularly. So if you're up for some fun e-mail us at akpuah@gmail.com"
SCOTLAND LAIR:
There is now a Scotland Lair. It's the SSs Group and we have a website at www.scotlandlair.com that we JUST put up. The group is currently yahoo based and we would like to start taking in any members who may or may not have heard about us yet. To join, they can visit SSs.scotlandlair.com which will redirect them to our mailing list, or email signup@scotlandlair.com for more instructions on joining. The website is starting to grow big as it's seen on ASF. We have our own discussion forums. We also have a photo and VIDEO gallery where PUAs can upload their own photos and videos and browse those of others!! We are also giving out free scotlandlair.com email addresses to contributors.
BRAZIL NOW HAS A LAIR:
To join please send an email to Brazil_P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN TOKYO:
The Tokyo lair now has a discussion board for discussing the finer points of the Japanese scene, guys looking to meet wings and discuss all things nanpa can email tokyolair@hotmail.com for an invite to the board.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN ARIZONA:
We have formed a lair for guys interested in pickup and seduction in Arizona. It is open to anyone in the state, regardless of specific city, or skill level. If you are interested in joining, send an email to cramias@mail.com and you will receive an invite to our private forums.
ANNOUNCING SOUTH FLORIDA P-L-A-Y LIST:
The South Florida P-L-A-Y list is a community for Miami, Ft Lauderdale and Boca-Palm Beach area PUA's to meet up and improve their game in the field.
All methods are welcome. Please understand that our primary focus will be field work. To join, please contact Zuzu atSouthFlorida-P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
THE INDIA LAIR
We are a small but dynamic bunch of aspiring PUAs in India. Guys of all skill levels are welcome but MUST be serious about actually getting out in the field. Please register at the site. New registrants will be verified to weed out KJs. Visit www.indialair.com
BRISTOL LAIR
These guys have a truly great site, with a lot of terrific resources. Go to www.bristollair.com.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN DALLAS/FORT WORTH:
If you are interested in joining, please send an e-mail to dfwseductionlair@yahoo.com.
NEW LAIR IN GERMANY!
The name of the group is PU_Meetings_Germany. It´s a field oriented group and we welcome everybody from all over Germany to join and attend our meetings which are held in different cities all over Germany. For further information write to: pimpstylez@hotmail.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA:
A new lair called the O.C. Player's Group is forming for members of the seduction community in Orange County, California. The group will be a place for everyone from aspiring to accomplished PUAs in "the OC" to post their pick up experiences and successes and meet occasionally in a constructive and non-critical environment. Everyone is welcome, but you must be serious about becoming a PUA and the emphasis will be on getting out into the field and reporting on what worked and what didn't. Armchair pua/theorists need not apply! Contact pua1day (Kurt) for further information at o.c.playasgroup@sbcglobal.net or to join at:
groups.yahoo.com/group/ocplayasgroup/
NEW LAIR FORMING IN HARRISBURG, PA:
No keyboard Junkies, only people who are willing to go out in the field and just get better at the game. All levels are welcome. Contact Gaurang at
NEW SYDNEY LAIR STARTED!!!
Monthly meetings with guest speakers. All levels welcomed only prerequisite is that you are in the field. To join please email ta_justin@hotmail.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN OKLAHOMA CITY:
Lu is looking to start a lair in Oklahoma City, OK. He would like to invite anyone who's interested in going out sarging to join, & help him get the lair started, please respond only if you are interested in Going Out & SARGE, or Doing Field Work, contact him at ljp97001@yahoo.com.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN PHILADELPHIA
Looking for a group of guys interested in a Lair in the Philly area. All experience levels welcome but must be willing to actually go into the field. See philadelphiaLair@yahoogroups.com or email me at myaroch@yahoo.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN AUCKLAND, NEW ZEALAND:
We have already met-up with couple of local guys and SARGE 2-3 times a week. We are willing to meet-up with more guys to share the PU knowledge and experience to improve our game. Those of you who are interested contact us at sexualpredator@em-wave.com"
KANSAS CITY LAIR FORMING:
Looking to get a group of like minded guys together to share ideas and most importantly work the field in Kansas City MO. Write eclypz@hotmail.com and include "From Cliff's List" in the title.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN CONNECTICUT:
Open to PUAs and RAFCs who live in CT who are interested in or have real field experience as opposed to keyboard theory. Send an email to djsemtp00@aol.com with your background and experience.
CONNECTICUT PLAYER'S LAIR:
CT Player's Lair now opens its membership to any PUA from the skill levels of RAFC to MPUA and lives in the CT, NY, NJ, RI, or Massachusetts area. We have our own private pick up knowledge base that all members may use as a resource to learn from and use in the field with us. Please register at: www.spiritual-seduction.com/phpBB2/index.php. Registration is free until January 20th of Next Year!
NEW LAIR FORMED IN OTTAWA:
Ottawa Lair yahoo group created groups.yahoo.com/group/ottawalair/
NEW LAIR FORMED IN BOSTON:
The Boston Lair is now open. The lair is a forum for brothers in the Boston, Rhode Island, and upper New England area to get together and meet others in the game and to build an active community in Boston and the surrounding areas. To subscribe to the Lair, email b-o-s-lair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN NORTH CAROLINA:
A group is interested in forming a lair in the North Carolina area. Members include attendees of the Charlotte Sargeathon in November 2003. Meetings may rotate through different cities (possibly outside North Carolina) depending on interest. Contact Jason at thee_jacas@yahoo.com with LAIR in the subject line for more information.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN POLAND:
We've formed a LAIR in Poland groups.yahoo.com/group/pflayers/join so if anybody is interested in joining it contact me at PFLayers-owner@yahoogroups.com or subscribe at PFLayers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. It's unmoderated formum where You can excange your views on the game and meet with wings in your area.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN LAS VEGAS:
Nightlife who runs San Diego is helping a few guys set something up in Vegas so a new group is now forming. To join please send an email LV-P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com be prepared to give a brief intro.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN ITALY:
Milano will be headquarters. All Italians, Swiss, Austrians, etc are welcome to join. Would like to set up infrastructure for weekly or biweekly weekend sargefests, both day and night. Goals include: hosting seminars/workshops of the world's best PUAs, sharing the best techniques for Italian hotbabes, sarging together, sarging trips to Roma, Firenze, etc. We need to get a solid core of about 10 guys to really get it going. All levels welcome. Email italypua@yahoo.com for info.
ATLANTA LAIR:
Contact: groovewhiz@yahoo.com
NEW LAIR FORMING MILWAUKEE TO MADISON:
A Lair is start for the Milwaukee to Madison, Wisconsin area. Emphasis will be on field sarging and developing a network of like-minded "wings" to develop and maintain a secret society in this area. We will SARGE from the college bars of Madison to the redneck fishermen bars of Lake Country to the cheesy working class discos of Milwaukee. All interested parties (male or female) please contact g66@outgun.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN MONTERREY, MEXICO:
The style I use is C&F from DYD, but am willing to try other styles, and will be very focused in going out and learning. Anyone interested in forming a Lair here in Mexico just write to me: javimartinez50@hotmail.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN HONOLULU, HAWAII:
Showing those surfergirls a good time since late '03. Drop an e-mail to lair808@hotmail.com for more info on building sandcastles.
NEW LAIR IN CHINA (MAINLAND, TAIWAN, HK):
A list for China based PUA has been set-up. Discuss PU tactics/experiences in China, and meet and practice with other local PUA. Contact Angel Caido on el_angel_caido@lycos.com and join the group @ groups.yahoo.com/group/PUA-china/join
NEW LAIR FORMING IN OSLO:
The Oslo Lair just opened. If you are interested / want to join, go to groups.yahoo.com/group/asf-Oslo/ and apply. We will start out with monthly meetings, on the first Sunday of every month. The first meeting will be held December 7th, at 18h00.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN LOS ANGELES:
The LA List, PLAY (Player's Los Angeles Yahoo) Group, is a community for Los Angeles area PUAs to talk about the game, make friends in the community, and meet up with wings in the LA area. The PLAY List is a community that is open to the public and is a place where you can share your views on any methods in an unmoderated (except for deletion of spam) forum. Contact Papa at papa@realsocialdynamics.com and get on the mailing list by emailing p-l-a-y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.
WASHINGTON, D.C.:
DC Seduction, formerly known as DC Area PUAs, has been around since 2000. We are over three dozen brothers drawn from the FastSeduction, SS, and the Lounge communities. Contact Minger at minger@dcseduction.com
SEATTLE LAIR FORMING!
I would like to find out how many are interested in forming a Seattle Lair. Contact theloinking1@hotmail.com to get on their mailing list.
THE AUSTIN SOCIETY (AUSTIN, TEXAS)
The Austin Society is a group of friends, within the greater Austin/San Antonio area, improving their attraction and relationship skills through field work and study. If you are interested in joining and contributing to our group, email us at theaustinsociety@yahoogroups.com for more info. Open-minded gentlemen of all skill levels are welcome."
NEW ORLEANS LAIR FORMING:
Joseph is looking to set up or find a "mastermind group" of likeminded people and he is in the south MS area about 1.5 hours drive from New Orleans or the MS gulf coast. He would like to invite anyone in MS/LA/AL within driving distance to participate, and to help him to get it started. Contact him at: veuxdeux@yahoo.com
NYC:
Contact Marco, marcorulesinfinity@yahoo.com and get on their mailing list: NYCTSF-SUBSCRIBE@YAHOOGROUPS.COM
SAN DIEGO (TWO GROUPS NOW!):
1) The San Diego lair is now opening their doors to potential new members for the next 30 days. If interested in joining the San Diego lair please contact Nightlife at nightlife@playboylifestyle.net
2) Pete M., and Nightlife have formed another seduction group in San Diego. This is to benefit guys who are interested in Pick Up who live or frequent San Diego. It is a group that is modeled after the LA P-L-A-Y list. To join send an email to SD-P-L-A-Y-subscribe@yahoogroups.com It is open to everyone in San Diego.
SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA LAIR:
We have a very active group in the San Francisco area dedicated to improving their game. All skill levels and types of game welcome. We have meetings once every 6 weeks or so, and numerous SARGE outings. We also have top PUA's share their knowledge with us when they come to San Francisco. Our list traffic is low but valuable. Lots of field reports and feedback. To join send an email to sf_morpheus_x@yahoo.com, and mention you heard about us on Cliff's list.
DETROIT LAIR:
New lair starting in Detroit area. Guys of all skill levels are welcome but MUST be SERIOUS about learning. The group will be interactive and do field work also.
Any one willing to learn or teach is welcome. Send Greg an email saying your interested at Grgreg_2001@yahoo.com
HOUSTON:
www.houstonlair.com Members of the Lair meet regularly, actively apply and improve their skills and are eager to teach success. Contact: xmlenigma, bashev can be reached at xmlenigma@yahoo.com, rnkayab@hotmail.com
MELBOURNE, AUSTRALIA:
Turning KJs into Active PUA
Members meet twice weekly with approximately 200+ registered members. Currently run mini study groups on Mystery Method, Gunwitch Method, Juggler, SS. We usually meet out in the field and streets so there is plenty of field practice. Our Sarge-Fest is a great learning night for newbies where some of Australias best PUA coach you to improve your game. We also organize other activities such as Salsa dance nights for our members and we encourage our members to contribute back to the community to help it grow. The lair currently runs its own forum so come join this active lair.
Contact iceman at melb.lair.autoreply@gmail.com. See Melb-Lair.com
AUCKLAND, NEW ZEALAND
Philip has started a LAIR for those who live in the upper North Island of New Zealand (Auckland, Hamilton, Tauranga, etc). There are already 4 of them who have been meeting regularly in Auckland, and they welcome others to be in touch. SSer's from elsewhere in New Zealand are also welcome to email to share experiences and form a network. Contact: philip@toeb.co.nz
MIAMI:
Contact Jerry at trudelle@email.com to attend.
LONDON, ENGLAND
The London Seduction Society www.thelss.com
AMSTERDAM:
Contact Big Bear groups.yahoo.com/group/nllounge/
The main purpose of the Lair is to help Wingmen to get in touch with each other and "in field" action! Membership open to anyone who lives in Holland or Belgium, or is a frequent visitor. However membership policy is strict.
PERTH, AUSTRALIA:
The Perth lair is a small group of people who SARGE regularly several times a week. At the moment, I'm actively looking for new members to join us on our outings (the more the merrier!). Anyone wishing to go sarging with us any day of the week should email me at tnejad@hotmail.com to meet up.
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Blake Richards has put out a new ebook that looks very interesting. Check it out here: www.social-mastery.com/Game.html
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Real Social Dynamics WORKSHOPS:
I highly recommend that you check these guys out. They are in the final stages of producing their long-awaited e-book as well as a redesign of their website.
Anyone interested in attending their seminars and/or workshops, email Papa at papa@realsocialdynamics.com with the subject "WORKSHOP" and mention that you heard about it from Cliff's List.
Real Social Dynamics (www.realsocialdynamics.com/ ):
Learn what works in seminar, and then jump directly into the field and watch the instructors demonstrate and teach it live. Stop feeling the fear of not knowing what to do ...
Individualized Bootcamps
Sign up and get more info here: www.realsocialdynamics.com/)
Real Social Dynamics has just launched its new website, forum communities, and Foundations DVD/CD set. This is the most comprehensive program they've delivered at a seminar and they were fortunate to have recorded it as well. Visitors can check out the new forum or get the new Foundations home study course at www.realsocialdynamics.com/
More info also available by sending an email to: support@relsocialdynamics.com
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The Venusian Art Society is dedicated to the pursuit of Relationship Mastery.
We have started a Yahoo group in each city our members are located in Denver,Houston, and Atlanta. You can register for membership by going to Yahoo and joining V_A_S_D or V_A_S_A or V_A_S_H. Be sure to include your experience in the Venusian Arts as well as what you hope to get out of them.
This forum will serve as a way to discuss any and all issues related to the Venusian Arts, from cold approach to relationship management. We welcome all active participants in the Venusian arts from any of the various schools such as MM, SS, DYD, etc..
This will be a controlled forum so feel free to post anything you want as long as it is directly relatable to the Venusian Arts. This is not a classified board or a place to advertise.
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New Dating/Seduction Seminars & Workshop in Montreal by DOC!
Doc, who many of you know from his great interview here last time and all too rare but outstanding posts on this list, on Mystery's Lounge, and the Montreal Lair, is bringing his seminars and speed dating events to Montreal. Previously they were mainly held in Toronto as part of the Learning Annex, Doc is now setting it up here and plans to hold events on a monthly basis.
The website is www.lifeskillsnetwork.ca. Registrations available on the website. The events are Dating Secrets for Women, a 3 Hour seminar (cost $50) and Dating Secrets for Guys; a Guide to The Art of Dating (also 3 hours and $50). There will also be a speed dating event in the evening for $50. You can contact Doc by email at seduction.school@sympatico.ca.
The fall calendar has a full weekend seminar and makeover. He also has 3 new books coming out this fall under the SETNA Dating Manual Series. Volume I (to be released this week) deals with the psychology of attraction, first impressions, and working on your inner game, Volume II (coming in September) deals with tactics and strategies to go from meeting her to dating her, and Volume III will deal with Managing Relationships.
Full-weekend Dating Makeover workshops will be offered soon (including a half day with a personal stylist, video tape analysis of body language, and live practice sessions with dating coaches beautiful women who will give the guys on the spot feedback on how they come across and what to improve). If there is a group of 10 or more guys interested in a seminar (or 5 guys for a workshop, he would consider making a special trip to their city).
This is a great opportunity to learn from a real master.
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Mystery Method Workshops:
What method are YOU using?
If you are opening groups (or sets: 2-sets, 3-sets, mixed sets, etc) of people with the 3 second rule by stacking indirect openers (including false opinion openers), false time constraining (discovered by Style), demonstrating a higher value to your romantic interest’s peer group with high octane DHVs while she obliquely observes (locking her into her own set with a prop), and simultaneously performing false disqualifiers (which include negs) on her with the intension of disarming her peergroup and then isolating her to rebuild her self-esteem once you have enough IOIs (indicators of interest) so you may share in a comfort and trust building effort and then build in a jealousy subplot to solidify her attraction for you, you are using The Mystery Method.
If instead you are only approaching women who are alone, you are greatly limiting your options and quite likely alienating your target's friends. Do you want a lonely woman (why is she lonely?) or a woman who already has a healthy social lfe? Truth is, healthy women have healthy relationships ... sometimes good friendships with guys. Like it or not, you will have to meet these women with men in her group.
Women of beauty are rarely found alone. Don't miss the opportunity to meet and attract them WITH social proof from her very own peergroup. Group Approach Theory (GAT - created by me) improves your options and increases the chances for attraction DRAMATICALLY over Single Approach Theory (SAT).
The guys who are GREAT in this game KNOW that they can improve their game ten-fold through seminars and personal coaching in-field workshops. Think about this: Why did so many of the greats who use my GAT (Style, Tyler D., MTL_PUA, and others) take my seminars and workshops? What started them off to greatness in this game? Can you see the co-relation may in fact be a causation?
If you have NEVER taken a seminar or workshop before, it's time to finally reconsider. They are life-transforming. I have conducted dozens of them. I am currently conducting a bootcamp and will accept only 5 people. Workshops and seminars were for many of the greats THE difference between great success and failure. If you are ready, give me a call and sign up. If you have any questions, give me a shout at 323-219-8696 (Mystery) because email sucks, or visit
www.themysterymethod.com/?kbid=2614<img border="0"src="affiliate.themysterymethod.com/b.aspx?id=2614&mm=7
and email me your #. We need to talk. Man to man.
NEW: Attraction Magic
Content: In the Attraction Magic Seminar, Mystery will teach you the magical illusions most useful in picking up women. In addition to rune casting and sleight of hand, he will teach you to vanish coins, rings, jewelry and other small objects. You will also be taught how to move objects without touching them and how to "read" minds. As I'm sure you can imagine, magic is a superb DHV. Captivating and impressing an entire group of people goes a long way in raising your social value in the eyes of women. If there is one thing that Mystery knows more about than women, it is magic.
www.themysterymethod.com/?kbid=2614<img border="0"src="affiliate.themysterymethod.com/b.aspx?id=2614&mm=7
Tenmagnet is doing Mystery Method workshops in Toronto and Montreal.
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DJ: Upcoming 2 day inner game and storytelling programs:
This program focuses on how to take experiences from your life and convey them in an attractive, fun, and seductive way and incorporates everything from voice projection exercises to hypnotic language structures to deep inner work on who you are and what you want to convey. The first day is inner game intensive while the second day focuses on the mechanics of storytelling for a truly *complete* experience I've received so many requests to build in some of the "old school" material on value elicitation and creating a rapport that invites her to open up to you, that I've decided to build it into this program. There will be a special section on moving from flash attraction to true connection. Please contact me for a flier with more details!
I’m offering special discounts for these programs so please email me for details at dj_seminar@yahoo.com ...
I hope everyone is well and I look forward to hearing from you. Feel free to drop a line to say hello…
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DR. PAUL SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT:
All of you reading this are familiar with the notion of "pickup" and the
idea of a "boot camp." You might wonder why the work I do takes a different
angle. As a board certified psychiatrist and long time men's counselor I
think it's great for people to take a hands-on approach to their dating
life. When I started giving seminars based on my books and ideas I made
sure to include an innovative live coaching format that takes the best of
real science and combines it with a street smart team.
Two of the things you may have encountered from me are MindOST and
DatingOST. The "OS" stands for Operating System. These teach you the
reality underneath human courtship and character strength. If you want to
learn the method-behind-the-method (why different things work for different
people), and see exactly how your personality fits into this mix, then stop
paying guys to learn what amounts to "what works for them."
There is way too much to say about how the REAL you inside effects your
ability to attract great women. You can learn much more than a "skill set."
When you develop your natural character you have what I call Seventh SenseT.
Everything about your maturity, emotional energy and self esteem are
reflected in all aspects of courtship. I'll try not to dork out on you too
much, but you have to get this to understand what I do:
Do you want to see in CONCRETE terms the exact fundamental quality of male
attraction? Find out the secret that made one student call my program "The
Armageddon Of Seminars!"
What would you do with an easy to use system of personality profiling? When
you can assess compatibility in seconds, you know exactly how to connect
with women. The format you can learn for this is called called King,
Warrior, Magician, Lover (KWML). I've trained a team of coaches who are not
only great with the ladies, but are also clear examples of these archetypes.
They'll help you discover your own fit and also show you how to spot a girls
profile from a mile away.
There is a lot of talk about CHARACTER floating around these days. Good.
Even some trainers with bad reputations are coming around, and even that
benefits men more than nothing at all. I applaud this. Yet if you want more
than vague notions of what character means, then you need MindOS. It is
your access to the only patented technology of character building, even
within my professional field.
It's not enough to have lists of qualities like confidence, maturity,
courage, etc, such as my MD colleagues in the "Positive Psychology
Movement," "Human Potential Movement," "systems theorists" and others use.
You need to see how the parts of our mind fit together as a SYSTEM to form
your identity. You only have a few choices on how to tackle this: a.) Let
a layman less well-read than you repeat stuff from books you've already
read, back at you, b.) take a decade or more of schooling and professional
training, or c.) have a medical professional guide you. The choice is
yours.
Can you give up the idea of a quick fix? Many trainers stop at "getting
laid." In reality, that's only the beginning. You can learn not only how
to meet and attract women, but also develop real friendship and durable
connection over time. Instead of learning to cheat the system, you can
actually grow and WIN for yourself. BE the system. When you do this it
touches every aspect of your life, including not only dating but also your
career, family life and social circle.
Don't aspire to being an oversexed train-wreck of a man! Aim higher at doctorpaul.net/products.htm
-----
The new technology (DatingOS) Dr. Paul is unleashing on the world completely explains what your hangups are, not only in "hooking up" or "approaching," but through the dating process and deep into relationships. This doesn't exist anywhere else, nor will it, because Dr Paul has gone through twenty years of both psychiatric clinical training, seen 15,000 patients with problems of both a "dating" nature, AND comprehensively solves deep problems that people have with sexual attraction, commitment, marriage, breakups, relationships, trauma, depression, anxiety disorders, ADD, OCD, career complications, cheating and betrayal.
If you want permanent RESULTS, you may need some real science, and the same fun time you have at other seminars of course, with more mastery of ALL psychology of dating—INNER GAME, OUTER GAME, and never before seen PROFILING of women for perfect fit to your personality.
So far, DatingOS has only been available in person, at seminars in the heart of the city of SINGLES, in summertime after a bitter winter has all females in a frenzy of cabin fever. See doctorpaul.net/products.htm
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Herbal has started a new web site called "Tynan's Angels" where three of his beautiful female friends dispense pickup, dating, and sex advice every day. For more information, visit the site at www.tynansangels.com
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Brian has a network of sites at bogdock.com/ and in there he has launched a dating site, www.fullcontactdating.com/
which he generously has included a page for Cliff's List at:
www.fullcontactdating.com/index.php/cliffs-list/
which you should visit! As a reward for visiting Brian's site, you can get a F R E E copy of his new e-book which can be downloaded from:
www.fullcontactdating.com/index.php/btp/
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Dear fellow PUAs,
Probably you've heard that this year's EuroSummit will be held in London. After last year's awesome success in Vienna, we decided to take it to the
next level. In London, the nerve centre of Europe, we are getting ready to rock the world.
If have some PU experience and ready to travel, come join us, and take part in our celebration of the fairer sex. During these 3 days and 3 nights of sarging, you can meet some of the best PUAs and most beautiful girls in Europe, and you can also hold your speech if you'd like to.
Please write us that you'd like to join us in London provided all the people come you'd want to see.
It's a survey until we finish the site. You by NO MEANS will have an obligation to us, nor will your name be displayed on the EuroSummit site.
For advanced PUAs:
Please also tell us if you'd like to hold a speech, and of which topic. We'll schedule it then, but the final schedule will depend on the other speakers, too.
And after you send a pre-application, we'll send you the list of people who already signed up.
Please send your email to redpriest_hu@yahoo.com , with the subject "Euro Summit"
Thank you,
RedPriest
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Derek Vitalio:
Seduction Science Live In-Field Workshops!
The fact is, only by MODELING the very best can you achieve the very best. In a Seduction Science workshop, you'll meet and train with master coach McMaax who will take you to unique hot spots all over a particular city for meeting the most attractive, beautiful women. Your coach will demonstrate their skills and explain, teach, and show you how to interact with women at a club and on the street.
With a coach, you'll find an immediate shift in your skills and understanding with women as you see what it takes demoed live and right in front of you. And there's no reason to take the long and hard path or reinvent the wheel. After making hundreds of approaches, we've learned what works and what doesn't. We'll show you exactly how it's done and save you months, if not years of time.
You'll never have to go back to feeling lonely or lost and live passionately once again. Reserve your place as soon as possible (placing is limited!) so that you're guaranteed a spot.
For more information on the full workshop schedule visit: www.seductionscience.com/
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Swinggcat has published a new ebook which you can check out at his website at www.realworldseduction.com. Those of you who remember his outstanding posts here will be anxious to get this as soon as possible. Highly recommended.
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Ross Jeffries Speed Seduction Seminars (www.speedseduction.net/)
Advanced Speed Seduction® Seminars - All Seminars Updated!
Look for more details soon, or call Dr. Yates at 903-482-1034. Price is $1,195. This seminar is ONLY open to those who own a Speed Seduction Home Study Course so you better hop on line and buy one now if you don't already have one and plan on attending.
Speed Seduction Seminars
Schedule 2006
Finished for 2006
Speed Life Seminars
Finished for 2006
Magick / Psychic Influence Seminars
Finished for 2006
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Major Mark (