I recognized the trouble-domain: I didn't want a harem!

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THIS IS CLIFF'S PRIVATE LIST, A F*R*E*E* E-MAIL RELATING TO SEDUCTION

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CLIFF'S LIST UPDATES:

The "Cliff's List Project" continues. Work is progressing on both sites and we expect to be able to offer the 2006 DVDs for sale relatively soon. The project has grown dramatically and the ideas just keep coming. Expect to see Cliff’s List developments that will surprise and excite you!

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Konen:
Cliff it seems Sam Philips show is very PUA friendly:

The Matador from VH1's The Pick-Up Artist In Studio
www.971freefm.com/The-Single-Life-With-Sam-Phillips/68887

Also, check this out:

The Vin Di Carlo Escalation Ladder (5 parts):
www.hatetoloveme.com/orleans-orlando-speech-july-2107

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Clifford (OFF TOPIC):
I know this is totally off topic, but I went to my annual check up a few weeks ago and I was 6 1/2 lbs. heavier than last year, and about 28 lbs. heavier than I was at my lowest (that was about 10 lbs. too low, though). I mentioned that I was thinking about going on a diet to my friend Jorj (see the info on his mind power site in the promo section below) and he suggested I try Isagenix. I took his suggestion and I have to say that it was the easiest diet I have ever been on. It was also cheap (their 11 day program includes shakes and products that cover all but 7 meals in those 11 days, so the your total cost of food is very low), easy to follow (preparing meals is a big problem for me, and the way it is here is very easy), and it worked (I lost 10 lbs. in the first 11 days - yes, I know that's mostly water and but it's a great kick start to see that kind of results so quickly). I am now on it for their 30 day program and hope to lose another 8 lbs. For more info, check it out here: www.isagenix.com/

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Gillette (a moderator of the www.torontolair.ca):

*** On Approach Anxiety by Gillette ***

I find the biggest problems of new guys interested in improving their results with women are, firstly, commitment, and, secondly, approach anxiety ("AA").

The first of these problems, is none of my business. It is not our place as your brothers to dictate the level of commitment to this skill in your life. All we ask for is a level of commitment that enables you to use the information we give you to improve. If that is unfair, then it is likely you will never improve. (I know from experience.)

The second of these problems, however, is entirely treatable and manageable IF YOU ARE WILLING TO WORK AT IT.

There are a couple things I would personally like to say about AA while I'm ranting about this topic. I personally don't think AA is biological or innate. I know I've approached more than 1 set where I felt no AA whatsoever, but instead I was excited that I was going to meet someone new (or was just comfortable and calm). You can call this a reframe on the ambiguous feelings if you want, but I just want to throw that belief out there.

Since I'm claiming that AA is not innate, I'm going to make the argument that AA is cognitive or caused by thoughts we have. (As an aside, it could be argued that AA is a form of social conditioning but that would make this post WAY too long.)

AA, IMO, is first and foremost a fear. It is a fear of interacting with a stranger and as Susan Jeffers (author of Feel the Fear and Do it Anyway www.amazon.com/Feel-Fear-Do-Anyway/dp/0345487427/) points out, is reducible to a fear of just not being capable of handling the situation. Actually, Jeffers says that all fears are reducible to a fear of not being able to handle it. Sometimes there's a fear of success when approaching and sometimes there's a fear of failure, but it's ultimately a fear of not being able to handle the event that may happen. For me, a large part in overcoming the anxiety was realizing that I could handle whatever situation came up. And that this is not a LOGICAL knowing but an EMOTIONAL knowing. It's a kind of click in your emotional circuitry that really makes you FEEL like you can handle anything.

AA is also a way of protecting yourself and not in the adaptive way an evolutionary psychologist would want to argue for, but in a cognitive way. AA occurs when you WANT to approach a woman (who is likely to be very attractive by your standards). However, if you fear failure or there is some part of your self image which says "You are UNWORTHY of a woman like that," AA is a way of protecting that part of you. It causes feelings of aversion so that you don't approach. It causes you to stop thinking about approaching which makes you feel better and reinforces the behaviour of not approaching. It causes you to seize up and focus SOLELY on your feelings of anxiety which again protect these thoughts of unworthiness, since you can't approach if you're focused on these feelings. In this sense, AA is protecting you from change and is preserving yourself. You might think this is a great thing, that you have these feelings which protect you from change but you'd be wrong. Every second that goes by causes a change in your mind and your body. You are never the same from moment to moment and allowing yourself to think that you are unchanging is promoting stagnation.

Finally, AA can also be a NEEDING of approval from the girl you approach. How would you act if the girl meant nothing to you? How would you act if you knew that this girl was already into you and there was nothing you could do to get rid of her? Now contrast that with how you would normally interact with her (assuming that you're having problems with AA). Hopefully, there's a large and noticeable difference in how you'd interact with her.

Now how can you overcome AA? What things can you do?

The simplest and most efficient way of dealing with it is JUST DO IT. Feel the anxiety and just go for it. This is what will work if you are just willing to go through with it, speaking both from personal experience and from scientific research. In psychotherapy, this is a technique in behavioural therapy called behaviour modification or desensitization. Go out, feel the anxiety and just approach. While you're talking to the girl, RELAX. For those of you who like NLP, this is the time to fire off a self anchor for calm and relaxation. The idea is to cause yourself to relax to the point where you can be charming and interesting while in set and the only way to do that is if you're desensitized to the anxiety.

set a goal for yourself of approaching X number of girls in a day or go out one afternoon and just rapid approach. How I personally got over was this: I put aside an hour or two and approached a bunch of girls and noticed that the AA hit me exponentially harder for the first girl than it did for any of the others. Since I wanted to really overcome this issue to the point where I could talk to an attractive woman anywhere, I wanted to overcome AA when it was at its worst. So instead of doing 50 approaches in a day, I forced myself to do at least one approach a day for as long as it bothered me. For me, overcoming AA at its worst, day after day after day, really did it for me. Because I fulfilled this promise to myself, I can start a conversation with a woman almost in any situation while I'm going about my life. In fact, at this point in my life, ALL of the women I meet, I met while on the public transport system or walking down the street or at some other location I was at during the day. The moral here is to get past AA and start MEETING women. As a friend said to me, the goal is not to get rid of AA, it's to get past AA so that you can meet women. It's to go beyond.

Now, in the moment, AA SUCKS. Any of the guys who have broken through it know and understand it to their very cores. The emotion is there and will likely be there until you overcome it, but to overcome it you must realize that while the feelings are not a choice, your actions are. No matter what happens, you have been given the opportunity to choose. As a reader of this list, you have been given the choice to either improve or do nothing but realize that either path you take is a choice. If you do nothing, that is a choice that you've made. If you choose to improve, then as your brothers we WANT to see you succeed. We WANT to help you get to the next level. If you feel AA and do nothing, THAT is a choice. You CHOSE to do nothing. If you are given the opportunity between approach and do nothing, you might as well choose the path that gives you some kind of learning: APPROACH.

Devote yourself to learning the skill of attracting beautiful women into your life. It is not the girl you are trying to get when you're approaching, but the skill of attracting.

I hope this helps some of you newer guys out there.

Gogland:

*** Dealing specifically with fear of success and fear of failure ***

I would just like to add that with AA there's two additional fears at work. There is a fear of failure and there is a fear of success. Fear of failure is THE EASIEST fear to get rid of, and I can say that at this point I have no fear of failing with women whatsoever. The fear of success, however, is something completely different.

The initial steps in overcoming a fear of success are kind of odd... I'm still working on exactly what they are. But I believe that SEEING something happen instead of just hearing it or reading about it crushes one of the largest issues involved in dealing with the fear of success... that what you want to succeed at can't happen. Once someone sees something is possible, it also becomes possible for them to succeed as well...

However EVENTUALLY the seducer must step outside of the realm of seeing it happen... and start believing it can happen and make it become reality. Because... well you're not ever going to see the final stages of the seduction by watching a good seducer, unless you're like in a one-way glass room or something like that...

Damn, now some PUA is going to run boot camps and set up his room with a one-way mirror so the student can see the whole process of seduction! I must watch out with my ideas lest they be stolen and credited to others!

Good luck guys overcoming AA.

Ash:

*** Socially Conditioned AA ***

Gillette wrote: Since I'm claiming that AA is not innate, I'm going to make the argument that AA is cognitive or caused by thoughts we have. (As an aside, it could be argued that AA is a form of social conditioning but that would make this post WAY too long.)

That's right on target for me. You articulated what I learned from my development but never wrote about. When I look back at my 'deconditioning' (I just made a new word up, right on!) of AA, every approach hard or easy had an impact on my approach frame of mind. Every approach was deconditioning years of the "Don't Talk To Strangersitis" Disease (I just name a disease, cool now I'm on a roll). Before joining the community, I would never open a stranger because:

1) fear of talking to strangers ( Strangersitis or Strangeritis )
2) fear of rejection
3) fear of saying something that may offend (I don't mean being rude )
4) don't know what to say
5) she's out of my league
6) I'm in a hurry or she's in a hurry
7) I'm busy or she's busy
8) Cool I'm with company or she's with company
9) I'm tired
10) I need to go pee (sometimes)
11) every possible excuse anyone could think of I probably used already

If anybody could identify with any of these, then that's the reason you need to approach.

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Czar:
Before I ever got involved with the community, like most people, I had used online dating and was EXTREMELY successful with it, figuring out what worked and what didn't VERY quickly. I kind of laughed when I ended up watching the DYD stuff on Internet dating and later studying the work of

Dave M. (www.insiderinternetdating.com/), realizing I was doing most of what they taught. In response to what has been written before, I completely DISAGREE with the whole friendship angle at first....you don't want to do that. You shouldn't have to hide your agenda, I mean, you're on an online dating site...they ALL KNOW what they're there for. Don't get caught in the nice guy frame and don't bullshit around by asking for "advice" and tips....that's just lame.

Here's my advice on the whole thing: (all of this is based on personal experience, not keyboard jockey bullshit theories)

Make sure you have at least three pictures up on the site, preferably one of you in a suit or something dressier, just to show that you're not some unemployed lowlife and to give some glimpse into your style and fashion sense. (Next time you're at a wedding or formal event, have a friend snap a pic of you...presto done) NEVER post pictures of yourself shirtless/topless, no matter how jacked you are....this is an instant turn-off and you look like every other douchebag/guido who thinks it's cool to lift his shirt and snap a pic with his shitty cell phone. Make sure you're smiling in all the pictures, no one likes someone trying to pull his best Derek Zoolander impression and who takes himself too seriously. If you're not sure what pics of you look good/flattering, ask a friend for a second opinion. If you're into designer clothes and have a good wardrobe, don't be afraid to rock some of your nicer stuff....girls will notice the better threads.

I ended up setting up a fake profile as a really hot chick (before even hearing about Dave M) just to do a little research and see what kind of guys I was up against. Here's what I discovered....99 percent of guys all do the same goddamn thing. My inbox was literally FLOODED with the same cookie cutter response...."hey you're hot, I like what I see, check my profile and if you want we can chat....hit me up on msn douche69@hotmail.com. Literally OVER and OVER the same thing. So what I decided to do was instantly distinguish myself from everyone else and immediately comment on something on their profile and ask a question, not some interview question but like REALLY out of left field question that gets them thinking. For example, "I like adventurous women, what's the coolest thing you've done in the last few months....etc, etc" I completely disagree with the advice to not be cocky funny in the first couple of emails....I will ALWAYS bust balls on her picture or something in her profile (look for anything dorky or nerdy, & call her out on it) in the first email, nothing mean but enough to tease her and elicit a response. Don't be afraid to say "listen, I just went through your profile and I'm not exactly sold on you yet....what's the story with (insert her activity here)...tell me more" This works WONDERS with the hottest girls....make fun of them and watch them INSTANTLY respond back......the reason being is that most guys on these sites are kissing their ass all the time, by not supplicating you're IMMEDIATELY distinguishing yourself from every other loser on there. Last thing, ask 1-2 more questions and then sign off and say that you're looking forward to their answers. Also too, on the subject line of your first message, write something incomplete as the subject like "what's the story with...." or "I can't believe that..." When chicks are getting dozens of messages a day with the same fucking subject, ie: hi, hey, the interesting subject line will reel them in right away. Don't waste your time writing drawn out emails...have a template where you write the same thing every time but tailor it to the chick's profile, asking questions about her, showing that you actually READ the damn thing and didn't just look at the profile and go "fuck, I want a piece of that"...like every other idiot on the site. Some of the funniest shit I saw on the fake profile I set up were OBVIOUS form letters...and girl's aren't stupid, they see that coming a mile away.

Now, here's the best advice you will EVER get for online dating. Most guys get all excited to exchange a few messages and their big victory is scoring the "MSN" and then wasting hours online chatting with the chick and getting to know them super slowly. This is GARBAGE and a colossal waste of time. My initial goal is to get her to respond to my first message, write back at MAXIMUM 2 more times then score the phone number off the third message. Now, at first glance, you're probably going to say to me "Czar, this is fucking impossible". WRONG. Here's what I do....I'll write back by the second or third message something like this "hey....ok, you're scoring points for being cool/interesting/funny (sets the qualifying frame that they're vying for YOUR attention) I'm not a huge fan of MSN, I think it's a big waste of time and sucks to find out that after 10 hours online, the other person is socially retarded and weird. Here's my number, 514-RADD-PUA, call me and we can talk...you know, like NORMAL people Razz (this instantly communicates that you "get it" and you're not crazy). If you're too shy to call, send me you're number and we'll take it from there. Later, Czar. My closing rate is probably 90 percent...you get the phone number and you're on your way. Most guys will never have the balls to ask for the number so you're differentiating yourself immediately as well. Other small things to know....NEVER write back right away after getting a response or a message from a chick...ALWAYS wait at least a day to respond....there's nothing worse than being the needy/desperate chode who's on his computer all day waiting for that magical message to come in.

Any questions or things that are unclear....just ask and I'll fill in some of the blanks. Hope this was helpful.

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Alex (www.revolutionarysex.com/):

"How To Give Any Woman An Orgasm In 3 Simple Steps"

We all want to have a girlfriend who is one of those women who are born with that gift of being able to come in less than a minute.

They do exist-- women who are completely comfortable with their sexuality, who can come easily regardless of YOUR ability, who have crazy multiple orgasms after 5 or 10 minutes, who scream like there's no tomorrow...

And basically make YOU look like a rock star.

Sure the neighbors complain and leave you nasty letters or bang on the wall complaining that they never get any sleep... but even that kind of feels... good.

But, as it turns out, we don't always get what we want.

The fact is, it is much more common for women to have a more difficult time reaching an orgasm.

How long does it take most women to come?

Well, according to research, the exact time that most women take to come is... just a bit longer than most men.

Nice, huh? Who designed this system?

Not a woman, that's for sure. Sorry ladies, but if ever there was proof that God is not a woman...

Okay, all joking aside, most women require a bit of skill, a bit of patience, and a bit of emotional comfort to do the trick...

But a very large number of other women find it extremely difficult, or even impossible to reach orgasm with a man... some can't get there at all.

None of these things are important to YOU—the only thing that matters to you, is --what does it take to get YOUR girl to come?

Why is this so important to us guys?

Here's the thing-- so many guys link their self-image to their performance with their girlfriend.

If she is a woman that comes easily, they feel great. If she's a woman that you can't make come AT ALL, you feel like crap.

That is backwards. You should not link your self-image to HER sexuality.

(Instead, you should you use your self confidence to shape her sexuality-- but more on that later).

The same is true for how we feel about the relationship-- if you can make her come all the time, you feel great because you know that she is probably happy-- you feel like she LIKES you.

And you are probably justified in feeling like you are losing some of her affection if you consistently fail to make her come.

And finally, there is a question of your ROLE in the relationship. Whether or not you can blow her mind in the bedroom can make you feel like you are in CONTROL of the relationship... or if you can't do it for her... like every little thing that happens sets things off kilter, and that you have no control or confidence in keeping things stable with your woman.

Here's the problem:

So many guys walk around feeling like there is just NOTHING THEY CAN DO about it.

They blame it on their size, their staying power, their attractiveness... or... they blame it on HER...

SHE won't tell me what she wants, SHE has problems coming, SHE had a bad experience in her childhood, SHE is never in the mood...

Here's the FACT:

EVERYTHING IS FRUSTRATING BEFORE WE LEARN HOW TO DO IT.

Ever see a baby learning to walk? Remember the first time you ever tried to parallel park? Ever tried to teach a kid to catch?

All these things are so simple you don't even think about it when you're doing them... once you LEARN the basics.

Trust me, I know what it's like to be in bed with a woman who is always ALMOST there.

I know how much you can feel like your ego is on the line... like your masculinity is on the line... or worst of all, like your RELATIONSHIP is on the line.

But guess what?

Like parallel parking, you can actually LEARN to get so proficient at tuning in to exactly how to give a woman an orgasm, that you'll never have to deal with these feelings again.

I know, I KNOW... I just said that every woman is different and that some women have a much harder time than others in reaching orgasm.

And that is TRUE.

But here is the HUGE OPPORTUNITY to be her HERO FOR LIFE... If you learn HOW to give her an orgasm, then consistently, over time, she will BECOME one of those women who can come easily.

I have seen this time and again. Women can be "conditioned" to respond to your touch until they are as multi-orgasmic as you can imagine.

This is no "magic trick."

It only requires 2 things from you:

1) A little bit of patience.

A woman that has never had an orgasm is not going to be having multiple, stacked orgasms with full female ejaculation in a week.

It is a process. It takes time, trust, nurturing, and... in a perfect world... love.

2) A little bit of KNOWLEDGE.

YOU need to spend the time to gain the SKILL required to make this happen. Men who DO have these skills are exceedingly rare... (which, obviously, is why women who say they've never had an orgasm they didn't fake are so common...)

So keep reading, and take your first step towards becoming the guy with the skill.

I am going to give you a simple 3-STEP METHOD for making a woman come.

This method WORKS.

By repeating it with your girlfriend, over time, it works better and better.

Within this simple sounding method is the groundwork for the most important principle in
becoming "great in bed", which is:

Sexual Trust

Sexual Trust is built upon "emotional intimacy" and "COMPETENCE" (your skill and confidence as a lover).

And both of these things are built, over time, as you practice these 3-steps with your woman.

>>THE 3-STEP METHOD FOR GIVING YOUR WOMAN AN ORGASM<<

>>1. "ALL DAY FOREPLAY"

My concept of All Day Foreplay is a very important one to understand.

First, because it redefines the very IDEA of foreplay from "getting her turned on" to "making her feel sexy".

The difference is profound. Don't worry about turning her on, or getting her "wet", or sexually receptive, or any of those weird things you may have read in a biology book.

The most important thing about foreplay the way I am defining it is to get her EMOTIONALLY ready for making love.

This is not about being "horny."

The key principle here is that you make her feel sexually attractive. Make her feel like a
sexy and sexual being. Make her FEEL her own femininity.

The second big distinction in All Day Foreplay is that... it's all day.

You can't turn a person's emotions on and off like flipping a light switch. Your behavior and attitude towards your woman ALL DAY LONG is going to be in bed with you that night.

If you've been treating her like "one of the guys", or your business partner in the game of life, or your best friend that you can snap at and they'll still like you in the morning -- Well, let's just say that is NOT the way to make her feel sexy.

But if, throughout the day, you subtly remind her that IN YOUR EYES, she is a flower... she is feminine, sexy, and desired...

If you treat her in a way that clearly demonstrates your relative masculinity and her relative femininity... pulling out chairs, protecting her, touching her with love and gentleness...

If you call her and remind her that you can't wait to put your hands on her...

Then, when you get to the bedroom, she will feel feminine, sexy, and like a sexual creature that is ready for your touch.

That is foreplay.

I know that there are many in the "Community" of men that read Cliff's List that believe that telling a woman that you can't wait to put your hands on her is "supplication" or that it is "approval seeking behavior", and the only result will be having her walk all over you, take all the power in the relationship, and cheat on you with a "real man" who withholds praise of her physical beauty.

Like many powerfully idiotic dogmas, this idea is built upon a small kernel of truth.

You can't talk a woman into being attracted to you by giving her praise or showing her that you want to make love to her.

But that is as far as it goes.

Women are just as insecure as men are, and when they know you, like you, trust you, and feel attraction for you... they have deep, powerfully felt feelings of gratitude for your praise.

If you remain unsure of who to believe, I suggest you check out your local "never give her any compliments" guru and assess his successful relationship... or even a single successful relationship in his past.

The part where you are physically in bed touching her is no longer foreplay... that's actually part of what we call making love.

Here's what you do when you get to that part...

>> 2 PAYING ATTENTION

Every woman is different.

This is a much bigger statement than it sounds like. I wish I could spend a few hours talking about it, but let's just begin with this --

Some women can only have orgasms from clitoral stimulation. Some can only have orgasms from their g-spot. Some require both. Some like the feeling of "fullness" from intercourse... and the list can go on for a long time.

The only way that you are going to know what works on your woman is to TRY things... and, of course, to PAY ATTENTION.

First of all, I am assuming you know WHERE the clitoris is, where the g-spot is, and the various ways in which they can be stimulated during oral sex and intercourse.

You NEED to know these basics, and if you want an in depth review of EVERY important aspect of where and how to touch a woman, please get that information by looking at some diagrams on Wikipedia or by going here first:

www.revolutionarysex.com/

"Paying Attention" is a long term process.

You will get better and better at it. You will begin to understand exactly what is working, and what is not. Things that seemed vague at first become clear.

Again, it is a matter of practice and patience.

Ever try manipulating those little screw drivers to fix a pair of glasses?

It can be incredibly frustrating!

But if you've ever seen a watch-maker using them, you just can't believe your eyes at the dexterity he has with them.

Same thing here. You will be amazed at how much more sensitive you become to your woman over time. This is a coordination that can be built to incredible sharpness with practice.

And, more importantly, something powerfully emotional happens BETWEEN you as you continue to perfect the art of tuning your thoughts into how SHE is feeling.

She tunes in to your energy tuning into her and tunes into you and your lust for her, and it becomes a consuming, emotional feedback loop.

A powerful intimacy develops.

And it is this intimacy, more than any other factor, that will turn your woman into an orgasm machine.

And, of course, that kind of intimacy is what makes sex into "making love".

A very beautiful transformation.

>>3. DON'T RUSH THE RHYTHM

So, you've been paying attention, and now you know exactly what is working. You sense that moment when her breath hitches and you've found exactly the spot, the amount of pressure, and... the rhythm that is ramping her up...

Here's where most guys mess up.

We almost can't help ourselves...

When we get that excited signal from a woman, we want to get her to give us MORE.

So what do we do?

We speed up. We apply more pressure. We go deeper.

Now, some women understand exactly what has just happened, and they will say, "slow down, hold it right there, yes, that's it."

But guess what?

That's the woman who is already orgasmic and comes very easily. She's tuned into her own body, knows what her body needs, and is comfortable telling you.

For most women, they are not exactly sure what went wrong...

One minute they were getting closer and closer, and the next it seemed like they were off track AGAIN... they get frustrated... they're not sure why things stopped climbing... AGAIN...

They say, "I'm almost there," because they don't want you to stop-- they feel like at any second you might find that sweet rhythm again.

And when you do... when you find that rhythm, and because you are PAYING ATTENTION, you know you've hit it...

JUST KEEP DOING WHAT YOU ARE DOING.

Don't speed up, don't slow down-- just stay right there.

She should come in under 2 minutes.

That's all there is to the method. It is actually that simple.

Or, that complex, depending upon your starting point...

Things like "All Day Foreplay" can be a big lifestyle shift.

And it does not mean that you can never have a fight or that you must always be perfectly nice.

You don't have to do what she says or pay her random compliments to keep her happy.

But it does mean that you will have to start treating her like a sexual creature.

For some men... for some relationships... that can be a big jump.

The great news is that you will both enjoy the results in your relationship-- even outside the bedroom.

Paying Attention can also be something that takes a while to really get good at.

But be patient. Consistently work these 3 steps into your lovemaking. Watch what happens. Notice the subtle changes.

You will see that she comes more and more easily over time. And that her admiration for
you and your happiness with the relationship goes up and up.

And of course, YOUR sexual pleasure will go up at the same time.

The simple fact is, if you follow these steps, you will be a different man inside of your
relationship.

You are in the process of BECOMING a world-class lover. And that will have a cascade of positive emotional effects on both of you.

I hope that you are ready to begin to see yourself in this new way.

Take a moment to visualize who you will be, how your life will be different, how you will move through the world when you have a woman on your arm that adores you and sexually worships you.

Becoming comfortable with that image of yourself is incredibly important to becoming successful at what I am explaining to you here.

Not every man wants this.

I know that some men want to play the field and enjoy freedom and promiscuity a while longer.

Nothing wrong with that. But MOST men who have done both will tell you that, hands down, a truly loving relationship with one special girl that adores you is better by far.

And nearly ALL men arrive at the conclusion eventually.

Because I have spent some extensive time around the "pick up" "Community" and people who self-refer as "PUAs", and because I am very close friends with more than one of them, I know many otherwise great guys who are stuck in this cycle.

Some will never pass from this phase...

And some men are truly, bona fide polyamorous...

But my personal feeling is that those men are forever deprived of a certain kind of intimacy that only exists within a couple. I believe they make this trade freely because it is what suits their lifestyle.

But every now and again it's worth assessing what path you truly desire in your life. And make adjustments accordingly.

I know that every man faces a series of very unique challenges in his relationships. And when you add to that fact that every WOMAN is unique as well...

Obviously I can't coach every guy perfectly in just one article. But more is available here:

www.revolutionarysex.com/

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pzn-player:
FR: Few questions

I'm very caught up with school these days and I'm sure I'm not the only one. The end of the semester is approaching, we're focused on studies, work, etc.

I haven't been posting all my accomplishments because as you know, I like to put a lot of time and effort into my FRs/LRs in order for all you to get an excellent perspective of what's going on.

Some also believe that FRs or LRs that are solely intended to get an ego boost are useless so I don't post everything anymore, I try to post things where I need some advice or think a discussion would benefit the group.

I'm going to divide this into a few sections (4-5 girls, only one of which I've laid, the others are of course, prospects) and I'll give you an overview of the situation and throw my questions at you.

SECTION ONE : The LR

The LR I’m having thoughts about was this one from my building. This girl, after I fucked her that night, I didn’t hear from her again. I’d leave her a note on her door once a week with something like “Omg, I totally need your advice, I’ve got cat problems, Miss Cat-expert, etc.”

The rule was, in my mind: Stay the same. Act as if. As if what? As if you never fucked her. You’re still the same cool guy and don’t expect or want anything from her. Because in her mind, she’s probably thinking, “Either he’s gonna think I’m a slut because he fucked me within a few hours” OR “He’s gonna turn into Mr. Relationship”. Well, I didn’t want to fall into either category but the challenge with women is ONE thing: You can’t EXPLAIN things in layman terms, you need to convey it. So I couldn’t walk up to her one day and say “Hey girl, I’ll still be the same even though we had sex” OR “I respect you, it’s not because we had sex fast that I think you’re a slut”. All this is detrimental, I mean if it truly doesn’t matter, why bring it up at all? Keep being persistent to see her (notice the word: persistent, not needy) and act as if you’ve never fucked her, you’re still the cool casual guy who doesn’t judge people.

So I bumped into her at the bus stop a few days ago and I got nervous, but I gamed the shit out of her again. She kino'ed me, we laughed a lot, as if we were having one of our initial conversations before having sex. We spoke about life, etc. I didn’t act needy, but I acted as if I was enjoying talking to her and she said to me “I’ll come visit you sometime” to which I didn’t respond, I cut threads and moved to another conversational topic.

Then last night, I’m home, and I went to throw out my garbage and as I’m coming in, I’m thinking, let me buzz her door and yell something stupid like “Hello, this is Professor Bin laden, let me in, I just got back from Afghanistan and your country is freezing” is what I had in mind….don’t ask why. The more stupid I act with women, the more they seem to like it. Things don’t need to make sense, they need to be fun.

I buzz her apartment number and she just lets me in without picking up and asking who it is. So I’m like, what the fuck?

I go up to her apartment and knock. She opens the door. I say “You’re completely crazy, you know that?”
Her: Why?
Me: It could have been a psycho downstairs and you let him in. You dork. Don’t you realize where you live 3 out of 2 people are crazy here?
Her: Hahahaha, it’s because we’re expecting someone. Do you want to come in?
Me: Just for a few minutes, you have cats and I’m allergic.

I go in, and go straight to this guy (very AFC looking, like a friend) and start introducing myself and giving HIM all the attention. I keep feeling she gravitates towards me but I act as if I’m still that cool guy she met, we never slept together. It’s funny, I really put that in my mind “How would you act if you hadn’t slept with her”. We all talked for a bit, and she seemed to warm up. She kept coming up close to me. But I didn’t even TOUCH her. I just talked to her. Damn, my heart was burning, the tension building.

So here’s the issue, the sex with her was INSANE so I want to hit that shit again. Now the point is…I’m realizing that I’ve been in this type of situation SO many times before where the girl has felt remorse (and they even feel it over a KISS, which is why they say not to kiss-close in clubs…imagine for sex).

I’m just asking you guys your point of view on this here…I mean from a girl I had completely lost to a point where she lets me into her apartment and stuff…I already think I’m on the right track. I’m just trying to see if you have any pointers (if any of you have been in this situation where you fucked her, then didn’t hear from her again…but then started banging her again).

SECTION TWO : Elementary Classmate

So this girl, I got her off Facebook. Because she went to elementary school with me, we already had things to talk about. I’ve been working on her for like 1-2 months on the phone….haven’t seen her since elementary (10 years ago) so it’s all phone game. We had a school get together last Saturday and she didn’t show up. I called her last night and busted on her for not being there.

I don’t use ACTIVE game with her. She’s from France…the whole negging thing + DHV and stuff doesn’t work as miraculously with them. French women are very cultured and they don’t easily get impressed by materialistic, superficial bullshit, like Canadian girls (no racism, it’s just a personal opinion).

I feel we connect a lot when we talk about things like…my massotherapy training, how I love to meditate. How in Montreal we have a multicultural community so we can eat pita one day, baguette the next, Kaisers the next, etc. The point is, I’m seriously trying to be myself lately….I don’t try to CONSTANTLY ACTIVELY use someone else’s material and game.

Last night while I was talking to her, it’s been a good 7-8 times I’ve called her so far (probably 4-5 hours of phone comfort) and she said she really wants to see me. I had previously set up a date with her but she was busy so I never mentioned it again…she brought it up last night. She said, “It’s up to you, my schedule is pretty good, I know you’re very busy, so you tell me”.

Now let’s make this plain and simple. I’m obviously not interested in something platonic. I want your advice on how to make this clear. How do I make sure she knows it’s more than just friends? I don’t want to drop in some weird IOIs. It’s just not my style. I’ve never done it before and I find it somewhat cheesy if you don’t mean it. I’m wondering….what’s the problem with simply being a fun guy, treating her like another guy, while kino escalating, and when it comes the time to kiss her, to plant one on her confidently?

Q: How do I make sure she wants me sexually and not just as a friend?

SECTION THREE: Shopping mall pick-up

This morning, my class got canceled so I went to the mall to kill time before starting work at 11:30 a.m. There was one of those “kiosk stands” that sells cheap watches (trust me, stay away from 5$ watches) and novelties in the middle of the mall. I’m walking by and I notice a nice ass. It kind of sucks to be a guy, we have a radar for a nice ass. We detect it instantly in our peripheral vision. It’s like we’ve got a special focus and vision for nice tits and ass.

So I’m walking by the kiosk, it’s 10am, it’s empty, she notices me, I smile, she smiles and says Hi. She’s a few years older than me. It’s funny, because I was really being myself and I barely remember what we talked about. But while she was conversing, she was also trying to sell stuff, but she kept asking me rapport questions. She was like, maybe you should by one of these watches for a sister or a girlfriend.

Her: Why don’t you buy one for a sister or your girlfriend?
Me: None of the girls in the harem deserve this watch.
Her: Haha.
Me: I’d buy YOU one if I knew what the best thing about you was.
Her: Haha.
Me Go ahead, what’s your best quality, that one thing that really makes you unique
Her: I’m resilient (I didn’t know what the fuck that meant, I just looked it up in the dictionary)
Me: Nice. At least you came up with something original
Her: Haha, you know what that means?
Me: (cut threads because NO, I didn’t know what resilient meant) It’s good to know what you’re about and not just say “I’m a good girl”
Her: Haha, well, I’m also older from the people you normally talk to probably.
Me: You think so? You’re a little judgmental girl aren’t you?
Her: Haha…no
Me: Actually, most of my close friends are over 26 (true)…but hey, ALL HUMANS judge each other regardless of what they say! It’s in our nature.
Her: That’s true

For some reason, she was also telling me how it’s good to love yourself. I was like, but you can always learn from others. (One of the things I like doing is simply taking someone else’s statement and making them fall into my frame by telling them what they said another way or presenting it to them in a more sophisticated way)

Her: You have to love yourself, if you don’t, who will?
Me: I’ve got to agree with you on that one, but there’s always a lot to learn from others
Her: What have you recently learned from someone? (nice test , I use it to my advantage)
Me: Well I have a very interesting friend (AtoZ) who’s a professional hypnotist. It’s amazing how this guy can filter all the positivity around him and get his energy from it while discarding the negative. I mean, we all KNOW we need to be positive, but we don’t always apply it to every situation
Her: Haha, you’re so cute (or some shit like that)
Me: What I also realized is meditation is a great way to add balance to my life. I lead such a hectic life, I have a few jobs and go to school full time.
Her: What do you study?
Me: Law.
Her: You’re going to be a lawyer?
Me: Why? Are you planning to be a criminal?
Her: Haha, no, by the way, what’s your name?
Me: pzn_player

Anyway, we kept talking a bit more and I told her I’d like to continue the conversation with her. She says to come visit her again here. I tell her I don’t come here very often and the only reason I came here was because I wanted to kill 1 hour before work and we spontaneously met! (ya right lol) She’s like, ok you give me YOUR number, and I’ll text. I’m like, here’s what we’ll do, I’m uncomfortable giving out my number to freaky strangers I just met, so we’ll trade numbers that way if you’re weird, I can prank you 15 times a day. We exchange numbers and I’m like “I have that feeling you’re starting to fall in love with me.” She’s like, “no haha, I’m not falling in love….we’re just going to have fun”

Q: What are your general comments about the interaction? Btw, I think she’s about 28?!

What does her comment “we’re just going to have fun” mean…is it what I think?

But the thing that makes me feel weird is the fact that these days, I only go with the flow, and I mean with this girl, I was having quite a bit of rapport quite early. Is that a problem? I mean sometimes when it’s not a club or a loud environment, superficial energetic material can maybe be detrimental. I had what I call “normal conversation”…I went with the flow and demonstrated my masculinity throughout the interaction naturally. I’m wondering what you guys think about that. Should it always be SUPER-PLAYFUL first, and then rapport, or can they be intertwined?

SECTION FOUR: Chicks from school

So I’ve never really picked up at school. But fuck, law school’s made up of like 80% women. So I have 2 prospects in my class right now. It’s obviously not very easy to close girls who are in your class, there’s a lot of bullshit to deal with, like seeing them every day, them being worried about their rep, etc.

There’s 2 girls that I’ve been teasing. The IOIs I got were fairly simple including normal kino.

Girl#1: When I teased her last time, she pinched my tit LOL. It kinda hurt. So I made her trip while she was going to sit. She pulled my arm hair as well a bit. I also put her in her place for that. But she’s always smiling at me. I’m very non-needy and 1 day out of 2, I act like I don’t know her and have better things to do than talk to her.

Girl#2: She’s the one I want to fuck, like HARD. I’ve been teasing her like crazy. We went to the coffee shop the other day and she was asking me a criminal law question.

Her: Hey pzn, imagine if I pointed a gun at you, what crime would that be?
Me: You dare point a gun at me, you little brat? Come here. (I grab her, squeeze her and tell her I’m going to kill her for having such a mean imagination)
Her: I love you too much to do that.
Me: Haha

Then I saw her the next day. I sneak up behind her and spank her ass, gently. She’s like “Private Property Invasion!” I’m like, < you should only be so lucky, private property yea right >

Yes, I felt I went a bit far. But whatever, exaggeration breeds calibration. Since then, I felt she was ignoring me or something. But it’s hilarious, yesterday, I left my classroom to photocopy something and she runs behind me and spanks MY ASS!!!

At this point, the only thing I did is something another friend told me about. I got both their numbers by telling them “We’re going to study sometime for the finals”.

Q: How do I lead it from here and demonstrate what I want? Do I treat it as if it’s a date? Will that come off as dishonest?

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Johnny Soporno (www.WorthyPlayboy.com):

'Two Rules' to happy, enduring Multiple Long Term Relationships

Just in case any of you have read any of my previous threads and wondered where I get off speaking from such a presumption of high-status, with my attitude of sublime confidence, coupled to a self-esteem which at-first might appear arrogant (verging on hubristic!) here's a little back-story to give you a framework...

I'm 38 years old, balding, heavy-set (think Tony Soprano in the early seasons) fellow who wears Hawaiian shirts most of the time...

I am also one of the most experienced and socially-mature Players in The Game.

Despite my looks, not because of them, I do fantastically well with women of all cultures, styles, and idiosyncrasies... "I love the ladies, and they love me right back... Now who's the Mack?" - Ice T

SO What is my secret? What is the special formula which has facilitated my happy life?

I empower women to make their own choices.

For the last 15 years or so I have generally had a 'Primary' GF (with whom I would reside) and usually between three and maybe a half-dozen secondary GFs, in slow-rotation, plus an inestimable number of casual playmates, some of whom might join into the pusse* (stet) from time to time.

To understand my situation, it is vital to recognize the distinction between TITLES (Capitalized) and roles (non-capitalized). The Primary is the one who bears the 'title' and role of GIRLFRIEND and may refer to me as her BOYFRIEND, whereas the secondaries all recognize that they can maintain the 'role' of girlfriend, and behave with me and towards me as their boyfriend, but that ours is not an overriding relationship.

I used to manage using what I called 'GITM' rules (Gays In The Military - Don't ask, Don't tell) with my Primary, and the others would respect that they must keep things quiet; but it was always ultimately a losing proposition, because over time the girlfriends would want more, and eventually cattiness and discontent would tear my playhouse down.

About eight years or so ago I recognized the trouble-domain: I didn't want a harem!

I wouldn't have ONE Wife, why in the world would I want many!?

So I vowed to myself I would no-longer permit women to live in denial about their rivals; but this made for very uncomfortable situations of nasty infighting, so it needed to be modified once again.

Finally I developed what I refer to as my TWO RULES model, which has served me very well (incredibly well, actually) ever since the beginning of the millennium.

For ALL the women in my life, from my Primary (with whom I live, and share a bed in Toronto) to the girls I met and slept with last weekend in Los Angeles, whom I don't know if I'll see again before year's end, the TWO RULES are absolute, intractable, inflexible, and adamantine:

Rule One: I WILL BE NO WOMAN'S ONLY MALE LOVER!

Rule Two: Every girlfriend MUST COMMIT TO DO HER BEST to get along with my other girlfriends

These two, very simple, incredibly elegant pillars keep my home happy, my ladies ecstatic, and my sacs drained.

A little more detail, in case the beauty of this is lost on anyone...

Regarding RULE ONE:

Every woman I am with knows IMMEDIATELY (because I tell her outright) that when I'm not with her, I'm with someone else.
Therefore, I need for her to understand that SHE WILL NOT EVER be entitled to unlimited, unrestricted, nor exclusive access to me, and as such she will need to find ways to keep herself amused when I am elsewhere.

No amount of 'But Baby, I only want to be with YOU!' will ever shake my resolve, as that situation is a SURE FIRE ROAD TO HELL, when the girl's resentment begins to perk-up and she becomes a green-eyed monster....

So, by insisting she has other male playmates, I remove A) her justification for being uptight with me when I'm unavailable to satisfy her cravings, and B) I ensure she continually expands her skill set and her expectations, thereby keeping me on my toes, and preventing my complacency.

Regarding RULE TWO:

Since every girl knows I'm getting around, just as they themselves are, and that there are 'others', they begin to realize there is no such thing as a 'rival' and that cattiness or ganging-up/bashing other girls in the circle won't help anyone, and will in fact necessitate their own removal from the otherwise very comfortable situation.

This second Rule guarantees a fundamentally harmonious and happiness-conducive lifestyle which has been working for me for the better part of a decade, and shows no signs of slowing down or breaking apart.

P.S. I exclusively date bisexual hotties and have been to bed with most of them with at-least some of the rest of them, in some-or-other permutation.

*Pusse is the feminine-form of posse

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MINI-ANNOUNCEMENTS (includes promos of new sites, podcasts, events, products, etc.)

See the on-line version of this email at www.cliffslist.com (click on "Letter") for more details about many of the following - once on the "Letter" page on the website, scroll down to the Promo section where you will see the Maxi-Announcements.

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

- Neil Strauss (Style) is about to release his latest PUA book following the huge success of The Game. The new book, Rules of The Game, can be pre-ordered here: www.amazon.com/Rules-Game-Neil-Strauss/dp/0061540455/

- Zan Perrion has just launched his new Natural Game forum at www.naturalgame.com. A quote from Zan on the philosophy of the new forum: "It is time for change. I truly believe there is a next level of interaction between men and women that wants to be created on this earth. A Seduction Community 2.0, in a sense. We have hit the boundaries of what it is possible to explore. Like the early adventurers, crafting rickety canoes and rafts with tenuous sails, we have ventured out into the unknown sea and gone as far as these early vessels could take us. To explore further, to discover new lands, to be true treasure hunters, we need faster and better ships... This is the essence of natural game..."

- Temple Temptress a.k.a Suzy Bauer: The "Threesome PUA Secret Society" is ready to launch Dec. 20, 2007 after 3 years in the making. Suzy's developed a community for hedonists and she's looking for people who would like to take their erotic lives to the next level. If you consider yourself "open minded" or a hedonist or if you're or (would like to be) experienced on "The Lifestyle" you should check out the 90 second video Suzy has put together. By the way, If you're also interested in having a threesome, Suzy has claims that with her insights she's going to help 125 have a threesome before December 31st 2007! For further information: www.suzybauer.com/ The promotional video is tantalizing, throwing out the following names without more details implying that this is a joint project with these teachers: "Moore" (Laura Moore, who did a DYD interview?), Shade (must be David Shade who has appeared at both the Cliff's List Conventions www.masterful-lover.com/ebook.html), Bauer (which is Suzy Bauer who almost spoke at the Cliff's List Conventions www.stepbystepthreesome.com/), Mr. Z (www.ladiesrightnow.com/index.html), "King" (could this be Jason King (www.makeoutmastery.com/ whose article appears above?), and it hints about some limit to 125 only. More info on the Threesome PUA Secret Society at: www.suzybauer.com/

- Payton Kane has revised his new powerhouse website and has his spectacular new Home Study Course available: www.seduceandconquer.com/

- The Pickup Podcast with AJ and Jordan continues to bring you the best free audio content in the community on a weekly basis and includes interviews with all the big names from Lance Mason to Ross Jeffries and even Neil Strauss. Check it out at pickuppodcast.com

- Scot McKay has just launched the VIRTUOSITY series, featuring over two-dozen of the most respected names in men's attraction and seduction advice. With six full sections, the amount of sheer value in Scot's new program challenges any advanced series ever produced. Best of all, Scot's character-based approach is very evident throughout. VIRTUOSITY deserves serious consideration by any man who is through with trickery and quick-fixes and is ready to deserve the highest echelon of women on Earth. Full coverage of online dating that rivals stand-alone products elsewhere is one of the many plusses, and even 1-on-1 time with Scot is included. This is a groundbreaking release which is sure to raise the bar. Check it out at: www.thechickwhisperer.com/exclusive/ You can also get his flagship ebook product Deserve What You Want here: deservewhatyouwant.com/ebook/

- Gabrielle Moore has prepared an eye-opening video about the G-Spot orgasm. Gabrielle is the author of the now-famous book "The Female Orgasm Revealed". And
now Gabrielle decided to take her intimate advice to the next level. You´ll be impressed (just as I was!) To watch the video now, go to:
www.thegspotcode.com/afvideo.html

- Jorj has some interesting products available including the "Attraction Magnet" (more details in the full Promo section which is below, only on the website) www.magicalmindpower.com/lovepower.htm

- Johnny Soporno (www.TheWorthyPlayboyInstitute.com), a major hit at the 2006 Cliff's List Convention, is now offering boot camps, his new book, and some extensive free downloads. For more details, check out the full promo below (if you are reading this in an email, it's on the online version of this at www.cliffslist.com ).

- Carlos Xuma is preparing to release his latest DVD program - "Alpha Lifestyle: Triple-Threat." Ever wondered how to tie up all the elements of pickup into a COMPLETE lifestyle? The Triple-threat shows you. See the details here: www.thealpharules.com/meet-women-build-confidence/

- Magnus of Bristol Lair fame has written a book on Emotional Freedom Technique, with a PUA supplement on improving your Inner Game. The free videos on his site take you through how to use the techniques to reduce your approach anxiety and feel good in the field. There's also an hour-long seminar explaining how the technique works.
www.innergametapping.com/

- Magnus: My buddy Sheriff is running a 30 day challenge for guys, with a $1,000 top prize. All you've got to do is keep an online journal, and go out every night. Free to enter, and should super-charge your game. www.growyourgame.com/

- Would you know if she was FAKING IT? Learn to blow her mind every time and set yourself apart from any other guy she has ever been with before. Subscribe to Alex Allman's FREE Newsletter and get hundreds of FREE tips and techniques that will have her bragging to her friends about your skills. www.revolutionarysex.com/

- Prof's Seduction Blog is all about Attraction and Pick Up, The life and learnings of a pick up artist. Seduction, dating, and the art of attraction. Meet women of exceptional beauty. www.seduction-blog.com

- We're all in this game for the simple fact that we love women, right? If you're like me, you probably like being able to please them in ways that no other man has. Though we all can't study at the feet of a sexual shaman like Steve P. or Hypnotica, we can still easily increase a woman's pleasure... go here to learn more about The Screaming O www.thescreamingo.com/

- Go Here To Download The Seduction Community Toolbar by Diabolik - www.diabolikseduction.com/the-seduction-community-toolbar-by-diabolik/

- Marius Panzarella: This link goes to a special page with the download link for a free ebook and also a discount offer that is only available to readers of Cliff's List.
www.datebeautifulwomen.com/ezine.html

- Steve Taylor, a.k.a. Lifeguard, teaches guys how to become a cool, confident, fun and sexy guy that women love. You can sign up for a live workshop or Distance Coaching at www.confidentimage.com or visit his blog: datingskillsforrealmen.blogspot.com

- Any girl deserves a chance to be presented with a choice... and we sometimes need to forgive and forget the people who made us create negative assumptions about the new women we meet... www.NoNonSenseLife.com - It's written in both English and Spanish

- How to attract women Naturally! Check out Cameron Teone’s Building Attraction Secrets. What makes this book any different or unique to other books? The fact that it makes a perfect symbiosis between inner game and outer game on the one hand, and the theoretical and practical on the other hand as well as implementing the very important concepts of lifestyle and masculinity in a very practical manner that will change your life forever. Check it out at www.attractwomenanywhere.com/ebook.html

- ACE is a specialist in the art of charisma and teaches workshops. Email acepua@gmail.com to arrange a place.

- Jake Rockford: How to separate the men from the boys: Finally there is an "all-in-one" toolbox for ultimate success for today's Urban Renaissance Man. Whether you want natural And simple ways To meet, attract, and date The women Who Are Right For YOU, learn how to get a kick-butt, no-nonsense workout in as little as four minutes while saying 'Goodbye' to health club fees, or master ancient and powerful tantric secrets of multiple orgasm for both you AND her, "The Dangerous Book" has it all! All this plus a goldmine of games, puzzles, bar bets, and impromptu magic tricks for fun and fascination anywhere, anytime and time-tested tools to build focus, intention, and creativity... The Dangerous Book is here to help you be your absolute best! www.thedangerousbook.net/Check_it_out.html

- Lucas J. West : You can sign up for my email list at www.LucasWest.com. The second or third email you'll get gives you a direct link to everything I've put out over the past year. I recommend reading the Rapport Report and the Path of Least Resistance as your major starting points (they're both free). As for Demonic Confidence, that's at www.DemonicConfidence.com. Guys can contact Lucas if they already have decided they want a skype hypnosis session with a reputable professional by sending him an email at lucas@lucaswest.com.

- New product release: "The Naturally Magnetic Male Conditioning System." Are you interested in developing a high level of charisma and personal magnetism that will help you in EVERY area of your life? The 15 clear cut steps use progressive conditioning, the best charisma techniques and traits of naturals to bring out the magnetic male already living within you. puahelpdesk.com/

- Lisa Lloyd offers "The Only Real Lesbian Seduction Guide For Men" which she claims will give you a head start on other men when dating. The guide reveals dating methods from a lesbian perspective, as "a fascinating insight into a woman's mind/body and she answers questions such as "Why can't women say no to other women?" www.lesbian-seduction-guide.com/

- Attract and Date has released the new Home Study Course: 10 students filmed on a Workshop where everyone had, at least, a date from the street. Great quality of picture and sound! Everyone is wired with audio and action is totally realistic. You get to see their shining successes and big failures also. See and HEAR for the first time students like a 40 year old scientist that never approached on the street with Sharks "I like you" and getting fantastic results! Go to www.AttractAndDate.com to see 50 screen shots from the DVD Course. Get inspired!

- Brother Kermit has just published I'm A Man, That's My Job: The Philosophy of a Seducer, A Complete Inner Game Workbook. Here is the link: www.lulu.com/content/875062 You can buy it for $49.95 US. It has all the lists, plus more. The rules of relationships The base life philosophies AND A description of the 10 stages of development from Loser to Seducer to Natural. This book also has charts to track your development.

- Frank B Kermit (www.lulu.com/content/1585762): Are you curious as to what goes on at lair meetings? Well, we can not tell you the details, but I can share this with you: We do Emotional Needs Analysis as a group. What is an ENA (Emotional Needs Analysis)? You are given a situation, based on a real experience, and then do an analysis of that situation applying Frank B Kermit's 10 emotional needs of women theories. It was developed as part of the Bring Up the Skill Levels of All Newbies Program. If you were banned from a lair, or if you want to learn seduction, but do not want to be identified by other students of the art, you can still get the lair experience.
Just check out this 120+ preview: www.lulu.com/browse/preview.php?fCID=1585762 G through it. Check it out. See if you got the understanding of men-women dynamics to figure out the answer. I hope you learn something.

- Most dating "gurus" talk about inner game, but fall far short in actually providing you with practical solutions for solving your inner game issues. With his Hypnotica's program, "Ultimate Inner Game", you can transform your mind and emotions in just days! www.ultimateinnergame.com/

- DiClassified DRILLS! Vin DiCarlo of DiCarlo DiClassified has released his new drill-based training, which boasts a total of 36+ real time drills specifically designed for pick-up training. Drills based-training develops your game in a way that is systematic, effective, personalized, natural and best of all, fun! The curriculum can be found at www.vindicarlo.com/drills

- Thundercat's Art of Approaching is available here: www.artofapproaching.com/

- Want to master your sex life? Male escort and liv e s ex performer NathanX leads a team of male and female s ex instructors in their intensive and popular workshop “Sexual Mastery for Men”. They teach what 99.9% of guys do not know and will never know. Where PUA skills end, sexual mastery skills begin. PUA skills enable you to get the girl. Sexual and relationship management enables you to keep her in the sort of relationships you want. Workshops also include a live demonstration of techniques! What they teach at MYSL is the real deal. No one else in the world is teaching what they teach. Free videos, audios and blog. www.masteryoursexlife.com/products/volume1/

- Doc, a featured speaker at both the 2005 & 2006 Cliff's List Conventions, is holding seminars. For more info go to his new site at www.TrueLifeSkills.com.

- David Wygant has a number of products available, including his Men's Audio Mastery Series (a complete 8 volume set), his book for men, Date to Win, his Girls Tell All Audio Series, one on Pickups and one on Secrets of Sex, his book Meet Someone Today, his audio product What's Your Excuse, and his original signature book Always Talk to Strangers. More info at: www.davidwygant.com/

- Cardinal just wanted to let you know that he's going to release The Cardinal Flight Plan (CFP) Ebook soon. He's so confident that this book is going to be a hit, he's going to offer the first 25 people a free copy! Yup, the first 25 people to visit Seductiontech.com will get a free copy. He will send out a mass email once he officially releases the CFP... Go to Seductiontech.com and sign-up for his newsletter, and be sure to watch your email.

- In the Toronto area Christiano has been teaching men to work from their inner game to outer game in a way that is congruent to their identity. Most see results after being taught the skills in the workshop immediately. Find out more by visiting: bestnaturalgame.com.

- Ron Louis & David Copeland have put out a new ebook "How to be the Bad Boy Women Love." Find out more at
howtosucceedwithwomen.com/htg/

- New Book/Audio release: "Park Bench Dating." Are you currently meeting women in the day time? Do you know how easy it is to get a quality number in a few minutes, just as you go through your day? Written by Art, an NYC dating coach, who came from PUA community and turned pure natural. Covered by The New York Times and ABC Television, his methods of meeting in the day time are so effective simply because they are so easy to use everyday. www.ParkBenchDating.com

- Uncle Ruckus has started a new YouTube show called "The Nice Guy Show" and he'd like for you to watch. You can also visit his home page at www.adviceonwomen.com. He plugs Cliff's List on a recent one, too!

- Society "Of Cool" - Description of Group: Simple: This place is for all of you dudes and chicks who are rad cool and want to step their game up in life with wealth building(money) and relationship building (women/men). Living a healthy lifestyle is considered "cool" as well.. This place is ONLY FOR COOL PEOPLE. If you are a beta male, chump, nerd, loser, you are getting your a$$ banned! Visit this Link: www.spiritual-seduction.com/phpBB2/index.php?c=1

- Here's a neat one, originally proposed to me by Johnny Soporno. Take one of these pills daily (male or female) and taste sweet: sweetsecretions.com/cgi-bin/ustorekeeper.pl

- Gigi has just launched a new website: www.puaratings.com PUA Ratings evolves around a rating system for PUA products, where you can rate and write your own reviews about your favorite (and not so favorite) seduction products or boot camps, and read what others have to say about them, before you make a purchase. The site also features a 'PUA Comparison Engine', a tool that will become more and more viable as more reviews enter the system. There's also a forum and a live chat where live events will be hosted. So make your opinion count - sharpen your keyboards and start writing reviews!

- Rion Williams has announced and released his pioneering 'Secret to Women' video, downloadable eBook and podcast. Something as ambitious as that just has to be seen for yourself. www.secretofwomen.com/resources.htm. Rion has also released the community/content site 'AboveTheGame.NET.' Its got articles, blogs, user profiles, an active forum, chat and more. You can even create your own blog and submit your own dating/seduction content or questions. The community is focused on how to be a 'natural' ladies man. www.abovethegame.net

- Herbal, one of the characters made famous by The Game, has finally released an ebook after taking some time away from the community. He also offers a free 10 Day E-Mail Bootcamp." For more information, visit www.makeherchaseyou.com/

- Captain Jack has a couple of new products out, check these out:

1) The Warrior-King Society: Freedom, Money, Sex and Power Crush Previous Income Levels, Recapture Lost Sexual Vigor and Health, Rediscover Your Innate Masculine Instincts and Drive So You Can Dominate Your World and Become King of Your Own Ideal Life --Like You were Destined To... Captain Jack's Warrior King Society: www.thewarriorkingsociety.com/

2) Captain Jack's Six Week eCoaching Program for Discovering How to Sexualize Your Game, Blast Through Sticking Points and Build a Social Circle in Just 42 Days
www.betheseducer.com/

- Cardinal (www.Seductiontech.com): Puanetwork.com Web 2.0 Live! I just wanted to let you know that the New Web2.0 Version of the Puanetwork is up and live. Since the show aired, the puanetwork has really picked up! Ignore my PUN =) Come join the fastest growing social networking site for the community!

- How to be an all-around cooler person - completely free, practical advice for guys on social skills, getting along with people, and getting your act together - all written by a recovered loser. Not everyone will need to read the material here, but take a look if you think you could benefit from improving your people skills before diving into the seduction game. Feel free to check it out at www.howtobecooler.com

- LayGuide was the original inspiration for Neil Strauss to write "The Game" and is still the most thorough and continually updated collection of the best dating, attraction and seduction tips in the world: www.layguide.com/

- In The Game by Neil Strauss, "TwoTimer" is talked about as one of the top players. His more commonly known handle is IN10SE, and his "Octoberman Sequence" has been whispered about and become a LEGEND in the on-line Pickup artist community. It's rumored to give a woman ULTIMATE pleasure and you ULTIMATE control - in as little as 15 minutes! Only the BEST of the BEST know it. Check it out here: www.octoberman.com/

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CONTRIBUTE TO CLIFF'S LIST: To contribute to Cliff's List, please send an email to cliff@cliffslist.com with your originally written article, field report, review, or other comments. Comments from people commenting on other submissions are separated by HHHHHH with each commentator's name preceding each comment. Comments from previous emails are preceded by an ">", usually in front of that commentator's name. Feel free to forward this email to all your friends and encourage them to request a free subscription by going to www.cliffslist.com and follow instructions to "Subscribe." You can also unsubscribe on the site as well. If you would like to be added to the free joke list (and please mention if you do not want to receive the adult emails that come with the joke list), send an email to cliff@cliffslist.com. All posts you see here have been submitted by the author, or permission granted by the author to be reposted here. All emails with comments should be sent to cliff@cliffslist.com. If you are reading this as an email, you want to go to www.cliffslist.com and see the entire email, which includes Lair listings (see if there is one in your city or start one if there isn't), promotional notices, seminar notices, new product and website announcements - and lots more. This email has been edited and modified to allow it to pass through the various email filters - the unedited version is on the website.

Please ensure you keep receiving our emails -- add our sending email address to your whitelist or "approved senders" lists.

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PROMOS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & REVIEWS SECTION
(there are NO paid ads in this list and never have been. The "commercial" section is distinguished by the "--------------" separators):
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LAIR SECTION

(Lairs are gatherings of PUA's of differing levels and talents that meet in different cities to discuss their experiences and to work together to improve their success with women). More Lair Listings can be found at dutchseduction.blogspot.com/ and at www.bristollair.com, as well as at www.seductionlair.com:

A YAHOO GROUP FOR THOSE RUNNING LAIRS:
If and ONLY if you are running a lair there is now a Yahoo Group for organization ideas for PUA groups. As each lair is different, this group lets us know what other lairs are doing. No seduction related topics are discussed, just organization ideas. To join please email RunningaPUAgroup-subscribe@yahoogroups.com and then email Nightlife at nightlife858@yahoo.com with an intro of who you are and what Lair you are running. You can also go to: groups.yahoo.com/group/RunningaPUAgroup/

LAIR GROUP
If you run a lair or are considering starting one, join this group to exchange ideas with the rest of the community and keep informed of community activities. www.LairList.com Contact: LairList@LairList.com
Lair List is an official directory of lairs worldwide. The Lair List Foundation is an international nonprofit cooperation of lair owners. LairList.com is completely nonprofit. LairList.com is 100% non-commercial. If you run a lair or are considering starting one, register your lair here lairlist.com/index.php?option=com_comprofiler&task=registers. Join this group (lounge.lairlist.com/) to exchange ideas with the international lair community. Get the latest seduction news from around the world (www.lairlist.com/).

HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE MONTREAL LAIR:
- Lair meetings are scheduled currently once a month on Sundays. For more info on joining the Lair (local only, sorry), email me. Out of town bros are welcome to drop in to meetings. The Lair now has a magnificent new online discussion forum that was put together by Loveur.

The Lair meetings are very insightful gatherings of guys interested in learning, improving, and helping others to become more successful in their relationships with women. If you are already in a relationship, and you continue to read these emails, you should realize that there is information here to improve and enhance your existing relationship - not only to create new ones.

Here is a list of other Lairs around the world (if you know of any others, please let me know):

MONTREAL JUNIOR LAIR FOUNDED!
Montreal Junior Lair: The Montreal X-Lair has been founded to help minors (who are not permitted to join the Montreal Lair until they are 18) get together and communicate. Lair applications would be sent to MontrealXLair@hotmail.com.

NEW FRENCH MONTREAL LAIR FORMED
Good news! Montreal has now a FRENCH Lair! Oui! Ever wanted to be part of a lair without having to learn another language?
- A lair which would offer you support
- A lair which would allow you to find new wingman
- A lair where you would be able to learn
- A lair where you would be able to share
- A lair which would offer occasions to sarge
- A lair where you would be able to conquer your fear
- A lair which would allow you to become a better PUA 100 times faster
And all that in FRENCH! Now is your chance! We've just opened our forum located at www.seduire.ca , registration are free. You can also apply to become a Montreal VIP which will offer you the possibility to be part of the best French PUA Team in Montreal. We also have a section dedicated to people of Quebec City cause we love you :) Note that the sooner you become part of our family, the sooner you'll be the person you want to become.
Many of our members are experts in specifics techniques such as Mystery Method, Juggler Method, direct/indirect techniques and know about their stuff. They are the people you want to hang with. As David DeAngelo too often said: "You want to befriend those people who've got the talent you want to have so you can learn with them and from them." The forum is located at www.seduire.ca. We hope to see you there soon!

NEW LAIR IN TORONTO

Frank B Kermit's Toronto Seduction Lair
No Minors! No Hazing Rituals! No Membership Fees! No Referral Link 'Click Fees'! No Forced Paid Workshops to gain access! No Organized Pirating of Copyright Materials! No illegal activates nor criminal associations whatsoever! Fully MODERATED to encourage a 100% RESPECTFUL learning environment!
An Advanced Section for Gurus and Top Guys who have mastered basic game! Separate sections for Commercial announcements and seduction Discussions!
Seduction Gurus are WELCOMED directly into the Advanced Section! An Active Free Newbie System designed to bring up skill levels FASTER!
Men's Only Group (confidentiality and privacy assured)! A Seduction FOCUSED group, no distractions! www.torontolair.ca/

THE TORONTO LAIR
The Toronto Lair is called TSN or Toronto Social.net. Anyone who gets to the homepage at www.TorontoSocial.net./ can email the webmaster to get information. If that's not an option, they can call Ike at: 416-628-9973 or his cell at: 416-300-6500.

MORE TORONTO
There are at least two other PUA groups in Toronto:
www.torontophoenixsociety.com
and
www.torontolair.org

VANCOUVER SOCIAL BOARD
A tight and good group of guys from various backgrounds who want to learn how to become better with women. We have two rules 1) this is not a competition, we are here to help each other and 2) you must be willing to try. We go out very regularly and have some skilled guys.
Visit Yahoo Group: groups.yahoo.com/group/vancouversocialboard/ Contact: Docandwriter (docandwriter@shaw.ca)

Victoria Social society
This is an open group for all you Victorian men (Victoria, British Columbia, Canada)who wish the study and pursue the art of seduction.
Visit Yahoo Group: groups.yahoo.com/group/victoriasocialsociety/
Contact: Docandwriter (docandwriter@shaw.ca)

Calgary Social Group
This is the Calgary PUA Lair for men (young and old) who want to get together to discuss PU and go sarging in Calgary. This group is meant to enrich the lives of men and, I believe ,women indirectly. Everyone can learn and it's only the lack of support and positive influence that cause people to stop trying. Here we can all grow as men and learn the skills we need to accomplish our goals.
Visit Yahoo Group: groups.yahoo.com/group/calgarysocialgroup/
Contact: Elantraman (elantraman2002@yahoo.com) or Docandwriter (docandwriter@shaw.ca)

NEW SOUTH AFRICAN SEDUCTION LAIR:
The South African Seduction Lair unites guys from all the major cities in Johannesburg, Cape Town, Port Elizabeth and Durban. We have a excellent cultural mix and therefore the women are very diverse and different strategies sometimes need to be applied to achieve results. We have very experienced members in Speed Seduction, NLP, Direct Approach, Cocky & Funny, etc. We will introduce you to a key wingman in your city. And on our Google Group you can download free resources from all over the Internet. Contact ramon@ramonthomas.com for more info. Join here: groups.google.com/group/sa-seduction-lair

NEW BRIGHTON LAIR
Darklight wrote to announce the new Lair which has just been set up in sunny Brighton on the south coast of England. They are a small group of PUAs hitting up the bars, clubs, street and beaches of Brighton. People are welcome to join, all styles and skill levels -- so long as they are active in field. Contact them at uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/brightonpickup/ or at brightonpickup@googlemail.com

IRISH LAIR
The Irish Lair has 211 members and was started December, 2005. Its Lair Leader is Stealth and their website is: www.irishseduction.com/forum or you can contact: stealth.waves@gmail.com or xrockridgex@gmail.com

New Lair in Grenoble

www.verselejus.com/pua/index.php?topic=1247.0

NEW LAIR FORMING IN MILWAUKEE:
I am going to be starting a new lair consisting of only the Milwaukee and surrounding areas naturals. I feel like with this caliber of a Lair only success is an option. This is going to be a bunch of guys meeting up sporadically for sarging and for scheduled meetings. If you feel you qualify and can positively impact our group, email me at allimalgam@aol.com.

AUSTRIAN PLAYERS
Home of the legendary EuroSummit 2005, most diverse members from total beginners to serial layers from Austria, Germany and Switzerland. Join us! (If you happen to ravel by, drop us a line!) Visit: www.austrianplayers.com Contact: Neodes@austrianplayers.com

Also, a new board has been started named AUSTRIAN SEDUCTON COMMUNITY (ASC) and the Lair URL for that is www.austrianseduction.com. Ben and Rey can be reached at info@6system.info. Described as the next generation of PU-Communities! ASC supports you with: - public/private photo albums; Event calender & Lair meeting System; PU-Lexicon; Video Blog; personal Notes System; & the best German-speaking PUAs including 2 females!

NEW LAIR FORMING IN AMSTERDAM/HOLLAND:
The lair can be found at groups.yahoo.com/group/Amsterdam_Dating/

NEW LAIR FORMING IN MISSISSIPPI/ALABAMA
I'm starting up a lair in MS/AL for anyone in driving distance to the Birmingham area. Contact blake1_19@yahoo.com for anyone interested in joining.

SALT LAKE CITY AND SURROUNDING AREAS
AFCs to PUAs. Meet and share seduction tips. We meet once a week and help push members to become the man they desire! Contact UtahX at utahrafc@gmail.com

NEW LAIR FORMING IN NORFOLK-VIRGINIA BEACH, VIRGINIA
I'm interested in starting a Seduction Lair in the Norfolk-Virginia Beach area. If anyone is interested, please email me. Thanks, Stingray9001 stingray9001@yahoo.com

NEW LAIR FORMED IN DENVER
Denver Lair is a community for Denver/Boulder/Colorado area PUAs to wing, talk about the game and make friends in the community. If you're in the Colorado, join our yahoo-group: groups.yahoo.com/group/denver_puas/

NEW LAIR FORMING IN RICHMOND, VIRGINIA
Hi, I'm starting a lair in Richmond, Virginia, the state capitol with a rather big scene. Currently all gamers in Richmond are forced to go up to DC, or down to North Carolina if they wish to attend a lair meeting. I would like to keep that experience at home, as we have many beautiful women in this wonderful city. Send an email to miikey723@yahoo.com if you wish to join.

EUROPE LAIR FOUNDED
Red Priest has founded the Europe Lair. You can find the description here:
http//groups.yahoo.com/group/europelair/

ISRAEL LAIR:
For the Israel Lair, Tironut 69, go to www.tironut69.com

DUNEDIN, NEW ZEALAND LAIR FORMING
For all you Otago students (or campus orbiters) who think you got game! This will be the southernmost lair in the world. Run by an RAFC with a fair bit of bookwork and small experience- any skill level you want, just prepared to approach, talk and try out new stuff. Email me at beest.goes.roar@gmail.com, and will see if we can't get a local lair started. it's time to bring the game to the deep south!

WELLINGTON, NEW ZEALAND LAIR:

An active lair is up and running in Wellington, NZ. Primary focus is going out and working in the field. All skill levels are welcome. Anybody who wants to join constructive, like-minded people in persuing the PUA lifestyle. We have a forum, and a bunch of friendly people who can wing with you to get you off of the ground; email Matt via moxyfmac@gmail.com

TAMPA BAY AND ST. PETE, FLORIDA:
We started a new Lair in the Tampa Bay area. All styles welcome. e-mail us at paradigmaman@yahoo.com
Also, go to www.toplair.com/ for more information about PUA Lair activity in Tampa.

NEW LAIR FORMING IN GENEVA
We want to create a Lair in Geneva, Switzerland. It would be open to French and English speaking people living in Geneva and neighbouring cities like Lausanne and France as well willing to meet and seduce women. All skill levels and ages are accepted. The main task of the Lair will be field experiences on a regular basis. Contact Julien at : Julien72@bluewin.ch

NEW GROUP FOR CHICAGO
Chicago Wingman Meetup Group which currently holds meetings on the first Saturday of every month at 3:00 pm, the place will be disclosed to members once they sign up for the group. The website address is wingman.meetup.com/18/ - this group is combining with the Chicago Lair, whose contact was Eric at theprogen2003@yahoo.com Since they've just starting to hold meetings, they have a flexible format but as they get more organized they plan to have guest speakers. Anyone who knows a local PUA (not self proclaimed) is encouraged to invite him/ her over to share ideas