Then she can pay for desert
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THIS IS CLIFF'S PRIVATE LIST, A F*R*E*E* E-MAIL RELATING TO SEDUCTION
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CLIFF'S LIST UPDATES:
The "Cliff's List Project" continues. Work is progressing on both sites and we expect to be able to offer the 2006 DVDs for sale relatively soon. The project has grown dramatically and the ideas just keep coming. Expect to see Cliff’s List developments that will surprise and excite you!
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EVENT ANNOUNCEMENTS:
Clifford: NEW DOUBLE YOUR DATING SEMINAR!!
Can you come with me to this? I just talked to David DeAngelo, and I'm going to do my best to be at his new live seminar in April. I wanted to let you know, and invite you to come along to the program with me, and go through David's only live training in 3 years. I realize that this is short notice, but David is opening up the registration for the program on Wednesday the 6th of February (probable dates are April 7th to 11th, 5 days). If you are interested in coming to the program, you should go and get on his email interest list as soon as possible. He has been telling his subscribers and customers about it, and already has 15,000 or so guys on the interest list - it looks like this program is going to sell out instantly (the last seminar he did almost no one knew about it because he sent a notice to a smaller list and it sold out right away). Here's the place you can get on his interest list and have a shot at registering for this once-in-a-lifetime program, and this is a specially produced video of David D for the readers of Cliff's List: www.mantransformationprogram.com/CD395
Sign up now, and come join many other special guests (probably me, too) at the event!
Dimitri The Lover:
SPECIAL TORONTO REAL MEN MEETING ON FEBRUARY 13, 2008!
Our next TORONTO REAL MEN meeting features Dimitri The Lover lecturing 3 solid hours on how to seduce women THE DAY AFTER VALENTINE'S DAY, using a SECRET METHOD. Don't try to pick up women ON Valentine's Day, since their expectations are WAY TOO HIGH. But every year from February 15th to 17th, Dimitri The Lover collects dozens of phone numbers. 2008 is especially significant in that those dates fall on a weekend! Dimitri The Lover will discuss WHERE to meet romantically shell-shocked sluts and HOW to approach them. The opportunity to seduce women this impressionable only comes up once a year. TORONTO REAL MEN meetings are held the second Wednesday of each month at 7PM (snacks/beverages served). Everyone joining TORONTO REAL MEN receives 10% off all of Dimitri The Lover's controversial courses, and is sent his complimentary newsletter, TORONTO SLUT ALERT. For details go to www.TorontoRealMen.com.
Savoy:
***Special Announcement***
The buzz for the Love Systems’ “Change Your Life” SuperConference is insane. Las Vegas February 22-24. It brings together the biggest names in the community like Sinn, Savoy, Captain Jack, Tenmagnet, Badboy Lifestyles, Brad P, Pickup 101, Carlos Xuma, ThunderCat, and more. What makes this event so cool is that it’s two sessions going on, so you can make sure you are only focusing on the things that you actually need. You can see a full agenda (and sign up) here www.lovesystems.com/.../. They have a mix of speakers, interactive exercises, panels, and mini-seminars for the teaching style that suits YOU best. In addition to covering the important tactical stuff like Opening, Attraction, Comfort, and so on, they have sessions on: online game, phone game, threesomes, dates, how to choose a venue, winging, body language, fashion, direct game (Badboy), day game (Sinn), strippers (Sinn), social anxiety (Brad P), relationship management (Savoy), and more. And if that’s not enough, Sinn is advertising that he’ll be teaching all new material he’s been working on for the 5+ hours he’ll be teaching. Savoy – one of the greatest if most private masters of the community and the author of Magic Bullets (www.lovesystems.com/.../) and the Love Systems Routines Manual (www.lovesystems.com/.../) – will be showing video for the first time of one of his pickups and how he did it. And more, and more, and more. I don’t send out stuff for things I don’t believe in, but this is an absolute can’t-miss event. The price is $950 for Silver Level and $3,750 for Gold (Gold includes two nights of workshop, private sessions with Sinn and Savoy, etc.) Sign up here (www.lovesystems.com/.../)!
P.S. The discount on hotel rooms at the seminar hotel expires in a couple of days, so make sure you sign now if you want a cheap room.
P.P.S. Love Systems instructor Cajun, who will be teaching at the SuperConference, went on Keys to the VIP…it’s not some promo show to make him look good; he actually had to compete with other guys and the judges were definitely not completely on his side! It’s live, hidden camera footage with a panel of judges comparing him to another contestant. A lot of really good pickup to be learned from it too.
Here’s the link to the video: video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=2009352446961728591
Here’s Cajun’s post about it: www.theattractionforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58691&highlight=cajun
Frank B. Kermit (aka Brother Kermit):
Frank is holding Frank's First Official Seminar, THE INNER GAME SEMINAR which will be held in Toronto Friday March 28th through Sunday March 30th, and will feature over 30 hours of time with Frank B Kermit, Johnny Soporno, Michael The Dating Wizard, Christiano Jr, and Robert El Greco. Seats are limited to 60 people. For more information: please contact frank@franktalks.com
Nathan X:
LONDON SEXUAL MASTERY WORKSHOP: Date: 2nd - 3rd February 2008. Price: £950 (includes everything) Instructors: NathanX and Miss Sin Location: London, Richmond 3 places left www.masteryoursexlife.com/
FREE CDs AND DVDs: Anyone who signs up for this workshop will get Volume I of the audio and video Sexual Mastery for men course. Over 8 hours of free content! PLUS 50% off all future volumes!! If you already have Volume 1 then this workshop is your chance to learn the more advanced tactics and you'll also get a free copy of Volume 2. Available early 2008. Maximum 5 Students; 1 Male Instructor; 1 or 2 Female Instructors; Duration 2 days (18-20 hours); Customized to each students needs before you arrive; Become a male sexual master; Improve your sexual confidence; Learn to make any woman multi-multi orgasmic; Learn to maintain an erection for as long as you need naturally; Understand what women want sexually; Understand how to create the sort of sexual relations you want; Learn how to control your orgasm for as long as you need naturally 30 Minute Telephone 1-2-1 follow up; Access to Private Members Forum for continued follow up; All Food, Drinks and Snacks included free; Free Volume I & 50% off all future CD/DVD volumes!! Find out more! www.masteryoursexlife.com/
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pzn_player:
FR
: #-close (this is a good one)
Ok so we're on our last day in Toronto, I've got a cold, I wake up in the morning and head to the kitchen of our hostel to get a glass of salt-water to gargle (I have the worse sore throat) and there's this hot British chick that was into me the night before (she was just fucking me with her eyes the previous night).
I go in. She's eating breakfast.
Me: Hey, you're still here, are you?
Her: Yeah, why?
Me: Rumor had it they were gonna kick you out for being too naughty
Her: Hahaha yeah right
Me: I can't believe you made yourself breakfast and none for me. What kind of girl ARE you?
Her: Hahaha, you can have the rest.
Me: No thanks, I don't trust your cooking.
Me: (I just make some more DHV conversation about how I cooked for all the guys and shit)
Me: So anyway, you're coming to Montreal too I guess?
Her: Yea, in about a month or so, maybe in March
Me: Nice, March is good, depending when you come, maybe we can get together
Her: Sure
Me: If you come like the 3rd week it won't be possible though
Her: I'm coming the first week
Me: Ok that's nice, I got a week off, I'm sure I'll find some time to show you ONE nice spot, that's it, just ONE, I'm not going to be your tour guide though
Her: Hehehe, maybe we can go for coffee
Me: Nah, I hate coffee, I like tea
Her: This is probably not going to work out then (test...bitch thinks I'm a dumb ass)
Me: You're absolutely right, if we went for coffee I'd probably throw it in your face LOL
Her: Hahaha
Me: So let's stay in touch and we can talk when you're in MTL
Her: Sure
Me: But wait, it's not going to make your bf jealous?
Her: No, he's in England (niiiiiiiiiice...)
Me: Oh, but maybe he has like telepathic connections and he'll know you gave your number to a good looking guy
Her: Hahaha, no he doesn't
Me: Ok (I have her punch in her number in my cell and hand her a tiny piece of paper on which I write "***-***-**** (my tel#), txt me when you arrive to mtl")....
Her: Ok good, we'll keep in touch then
Me: Am I going to be sure you won't lose the number?
Her: No, I don't think so
Me: Well on second thought, if you lose it it's just your loss
Her: Haha, I like your attitude!
Me: Of course you do
Her: Haha
Me: Ok, here's a piece of advice for you though, in order not to lose the number.
Her: What?
Me (look at her seriously, in her eyes): I want you to put my number in your panties right now.
Her: (YES, LOL, she reaches for inside the panties and puts it in the panties) LOLOLOL
Anyway, I don't expect anything from this, it was just so joke. It's in the morning I just got out of bed and I'm gaming this girl like there's no tomorrow! If she comes to MTL and calls me or something, it's a done deal...because she definitely was into me. Oh yeah, and after I got her number I went into some comfort asking her about what she does for a living and she's actually into some things I am into...so we spoke for a bit more...so it's not only the pzn_player asshole attitude, there definitely is some comfort in there.
But damn, this was the sickest trip ever.
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Konen:
Check this out: women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/article3283690.ece
I JUST LOVE IT!! Read the comments, they are CHAMPION in my estimation. I hope this will be read with comments on the Tom Leykis Show, maybe I need to mail it to Doc Love's show (Doc's show is getting ever stronger...years of medical experience, BOYS!!). This is a story of a woman bemoaning the way men in their 30s want 20s babes, not 30s women. Read it then read the comments:
The man’s view: try this instead
Most single men want love. But they are also terrified of failure, poverty and being trapped. They are scared of turning into their dads, or, if divorced, repeating their old mistakes. They are scared that their women will make them throw out their comics, their motorbikes and their dreams of writing novels. It doesn’t really matter which type of man you go for – younger, older, divorced. What matters is that you go for him. Personally, I think the divorced man is more realistic. He’s not like a young man who can’t commit because he yearns for a fairytale goddess whose heart he may one day capture. The older man just wants someone who won’t shout at him. If it takes her two minutes to get into the car, she’s ideal. If she’s giving, and laughs at his jokes, he’ll love her forever. Give those bruised men a try. Stop expecting to find The One. Find someone, and give him love recklessly.
Or you can snare one of the single man-boys, but you must be cunning. You must wait for him to call but, when he does, you must be devoted and give him glorious sex in flattering lighting.
There is only one time when a man knows, for certain, that he loves his woman and will stay with her forever: when she has just chucked him. The rest of the time he’s not sure. I remember the first time my wife said: “Let’s have children!” I knew that this was an historic moment. I must respond like a man. So I ignored her. Men’s heads are filled with confusion, fear and football statistics. And whenever they are made an offer, they always feel the negatives first – and if they can’t express them, they clam up like oysters.
In which case, trapping them may involve trickery. After five months – preferably during a three-day trip to Paris, so he can’t get away – you must say, lightly and just before sex: “I love every part of your life. I want to see you richly succeed. But you must marry me.” Then you must change tack and become very soft. You have touched on his deepest fears. Listen. Tell him to write that novel. Tell him that you love ELO. After a two-day sulk, which will be immensely wounding for you, he will begin to express his horrid, selfish fears, and thus you will be stumbling towards your perfectly imperfect life.
Try not to worry about what happens. Remember, there are also loads of men like me: the ones who hatched, and still went bad. We wish you luck. We wish you love. We’ll see you by the swings in five years.
— ANDREW CLOVER (Andrew Clover’s Dad Rules is published by Penguin in May)
London is full of single women who are 'thirty something' and who have had a great time over the past twenty years generally putting men down and treating them like 's' for no better reason than to feel better about themselves and to show off to their friends. Now men don't want them. So why are they surprised?
John Hall, Wilmington, Vermont USA
This is pretty harsh stuff. I can look at my phone address book now and find a dozen early thirties intelligent, witty, decent, professional, graduate men who would love nothing more than a girlfriend. Of course they are not that handsome (just normal) or rich, so women just pass them by. Maybe it's because we live in London, but it is unfair both ways so please don't characterize us all by an outdated stereotype.
M. Williams, London, UK
As a single mature (omg I hate that word) woman I'd like to comment. I've been free and footloose, married twice now divorced, a career woman obsessed with perfection, pursued the pursuer, fled and retreated, rethought, planned and flunked... and now find myself stranded on a lonely planet wondering what it's all about (cliche). If Alfie were around I'd shag him, but instead feel there is something increasingly missing that's essential to any relationship and may in fact be going out of style. The neurons are arranged much differently than they were 'back in the day'; social exigencies demanded fewer matrices and there were fewer glamourous distractions. Some of the changes are good; some leave those with a still-faintly beating heart wanting. Those with a beating heart are treated like sophisticated farm animals worried about progeny and the people who left off with feeling prefer neurons and investments...
It's a mess, that's why I look at dysfunctional romantic comedies.
Elan Durham, Santa Monica, CA/US
The divorce rate is 50%.
More than two thirds of divorces are initiated by the wife.
After pregnancy, Mum devotes all her attention to the children and Dad is just a paycheck.
After pregnancy, Mum says she cares about her figure but in practice acts otherwise.
The financial and emotional losers from a divorce are men.
Would you invest your savings in a business that had this rate of failure?
Phil, Nottingham
It's no different in the States. As I've gotten older (39), I find older men (i.e., my age) pretty much of a turn-off. Online, these guys indicate that they'd date an 18 year old, but wouldn't date a woman their own age. Out of curiosity, I emailed one guy and asked why that was. The answer was that they were likely to have less baggage. There seems to be an assumption that you have baggage if you are older, and that's really unfortunate. At this point, I'm going to let fate decide if I am meant to be with someone and have kids.
Leigh, Savannah, USA
Of course some young men are very different, I for example am perfectly happy (understatement of the century, but there we are) being with my fiancée, I feel no urge to go looking for anything extra because I have all I'll ever want and need with her.
Tim Hamilton, Chatham,
Ladies, look at the dating stats above. Men, all men, want to marry a 24 year-old. So if the man you are with when you are 24 doesn't want to marry you then, flick him and get one that does.
Paul Obvious, Brisbane, Australia
Just wait for the married ones to get divorced.
Bruno, NYC,
Who said ALL 30+ singleton females were terrified of the so-called 'baby-bomb'? How about the ones who don't give a damn about it? Or marriage for that matter?
J. D. Bridge, Toronto,
Morrissey put it well: "If you're so funny, why are you on your own tonight? If you're so very entertaining, why do you sleep alone tonight?"
Perhaps single women should think what they could do to make themselves more appealing to men as potential partners. here's a clue: it has nothing, or very little to do with beauty, grooming, clothes etc - and a lot to do with being patient, kind, trusting, generous and interesting. All of which men have to do as well, of course.
David Miller, London,
It's quite simple, you women wanted freedom, equality, a profession, but half of you forgot about dating, forgot what you were, and now you are all middle aged, with a baby time bomb ticking in you head! You can't have everything.....
Jame Thonpson, Cardiff, UK
Boo Hoo. Does this new age self assured female moaning never end. Do you see column inches devoted to men whining on that they can't find 'the one' these days because single 30 something women seem selfish and devoted to the shallow materialistic lifestyle of 'Sex in the City' than to mutual devotion to a partner and family. Guess what ladies, you can't have it all and those of us mere mortal males who aren't board room giants or charismatic billionaires have known it for years. Life's hard, harden up. Open yourself up to the prospect of a relationship or don't, it's your choice. Fence sitting, cynicism and moaning just won't work, though. Welcome to the real world - not really like Sex and the City at all, is it?
Johno, Brisbane, Australia
The bio-clock goes off once again and you have hit the snooze button.
The fact is that most 20-something women want little to do with 20-something men, preferring 30-something men. When they become 30-something they have to compete with themselves 10 years younger: more fun, less baggage, and less cynical.
It's a leap year. Get out there girl and get proposing!
It's easy once you get over yourself.
fuguez aged 35 1/4 - single and loving it.
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Alex Allman (www.revolutionarysex.com/):
Oral Sex Tips: Make Her More Sensitive
***QUESTION***
I am especially interested in the oral tips. My wife is not a big fan of oral. She prefers heavier pressure than a tongue can provide and she does not like the pinpoint feel of
individual fingers. Whole hand and cupped finger pressure is what she prefers. Any suggestions for oral improvements or do I just have to resign myself to her preferences? Are there techniques for somehow improving her sensitivity?
S.
>>>MY REPLY:
I'm really glad you wrote in with this question, because it illustrates a really important point about women that I talk about all the time -- every woman is different.
Of course we read everywhere that MOST women prefer oral sex to intercourse or anything else, but the reality is no two women are exactly alike, and the true gift is learning how to push the buttons of the woman that you are with.
Which you have done.
But now let's take a look at how we can make it even better!
First of all, your wife's preference is not uncommon and it probably comes from her own experience of making herself come for the first time when she was first becoming sexually aware and began masturbating.
The "whole hand" thing is the way most women begin touching themselves, because they usually don't know much themselves about their own anatomy. They just find what feels good.
The easiest way to do that without probing around too much is with a broad surface to touch herself.
After a while, she just blueprinted this idea on herself that THIS is the way she has an orgasm.
The first thing I'm going to ask the two of you to do, is really work on changing your attitude about love-making.
Stop making it all about the orgasm. Really tune in to just enjoying touching each other and all the crazy good sexual feelings you can have other than just coming.
More specifically, stop making it all about HER orgasm.
There is this idea that the man's sexual pleasure is no big deal. He's going to come every time anyway, obviously he's liking it, so it's all about whether or not SHE is going to enjoy it.
But the fact is, you like going down on your wife -- and even though that is not how you are going to have your orgasm-- it is part of your sexual pleasure. And so it should be part of what you guys do together to just enjoy love-making.
Even if it doesn't drive her towards her orgasm, I'm pretty sure she can enjoy the sensations she will get when you are down there.
Once you've both come to this realization of just spending time enjoying each other and it doesn't matter if it's what makes her come, you might find the rest comes naturally and she will discover sensitivity she didn't know she had...
And maybe even surprise herself and start coming from a very gentle touch with your tongue.
However, here are some more specific tips on increasing her sensitivity --
Place your thumb at the very top of the fold of her vagina, on the hood of the clitoris, and pull the skin firmly up and back.
This will expose the head of the clitoris and make it MUCH more sensitive.
As she becomes more sexually excited, the hood will try to move down over the clitoris -- it almost seems like the clit is trying to hide as she gets closer to orgasm (weird female biology), so you may have to use more pressure with your thumb to pull it back and keep the clit exposed.
As I said, this will make her much more sensitive -- and for other guys reading this, note that I began this response by saying that every woman is DIFFERENT...
Some women will find this way TOO sensitive and even unpleasant, and your girl might yowl and leap right out of the bed as if you just gave her vagina an electric shock.
To increase the sensation even more, try sucking the head of the clit up into your mouth. The pressure of the suction is a very powerful sensation, and you can experiment with combining this sucking action with stimulating her with your lips and tongue.
You could also, at this point, insert a finger and curl it upwards onto her g-spot. For most women this combination is ridiculously powerful.
Play with this stuff, pay attention to what's working, and most of all have some fun and enjoy each other.
These few little tips should work to drive her completely crazy and seriously re-wire her own ideas of what can make her come.
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Joseph W. South, Real Modern Man (josephwentsouth.com):
WHAT TRUE INTIMACY MEANS FOR A WOMAN
Women almost universally say that they crave “Intimacy”. And the world is literally filled with propaganda as to what this means for a woman.
In my opinion, when it comes to sex and intimacy, most men have this completely ass-backwards. I deduce this from two areas:
1. Watching the way society says intimacy should be sought, observing AFCs acting it out, and observing both AFCs and their female partners grow increasingly frustrated. To me, this is an easily observable frame and I see it all the time with couples who are out having a supposedly “intimate” dinner together.
2. Feedback I get from the women I’ve been intimate with. You’ll note that a lot of this feedback, by definition, is not the “sitting around the fire” type of chit chat. It is very verbal in the form of the SEX TALK I get and it is very EXPLICIT.
Attraction + Comfort + Logistics = Sex. When you hear a woman talk about “intimacy”, consider that she means a real, deep connection with the man at every phase here.
Attraction. You are an attractive man and you know it. The same way a beautiful woman knows it; not the way a try-hard thinks he knows it. This means you are not phased by her looks; you can really adore her looks but you can “see past” her looks. She’s feminine. She’s vulnerable. Most men she interacts with haven’t even the capability of seeing past her looks.
You might need to use C&F or a neg or two to demonstrate this sometimes. But as for negs, view those as training wheels; they are mere demonstrations that you are not phased by her looks. The next level for you is to bypass “looks” as an issue that need any compensatory tactic at all. From experience, I can say that this happens automatically when the company of beautiful women becomes routine for you. As in, only with experience and time.
Comfort. Comfort is all about having her trust you. Trust that you can:
- Fuck her and fuck her well
- Not embarrass her socially in the process
- Not be looking to her for comfort.
That last point is important and underscores a key difference between men and women: A woman looks to a man to provide her with comfort. A man needs to be comfortable also before he can have sex , but he must get that comfort from within himself and never from the woman!
Incongruence is simply where your outer actions do not match your inner beliefs. Don’t believe you can fuck this woman properly? Then you probably won’t be doing so, other than in your mind at home jerking off. Don’t absolutely know she is safe in your hands, physically but equally important, socially? Then she won’t feel nearly comfortable enough with you to fuck you.
This is precisely why the AFC technique of dating can be effective but so massively inefficient. Only after a long process of courting can she finally feel safe enough with you, that you are essentially “harmless”. But what has that done for the Attraction part in the meantime?
Logistics. Again, book knowledge can help a lot, but real experience is required. You can read all about logistics, but without experience, it will be tough to convince her that you can execute the logistics in a safe way for her.
INTIMACY
When a woman who is with a man that can execute all of the above in a confident way, she can say say she feels intimate with him. Why? Because he is relating to her as a woman, in a way that almost no other man does. She will get the feeling that she is with a man who finally understands her.
What Intimacy Is Not
- Intimacy for a woman is not when you pour out your heart to her. That’s you looking to her for comfort. It will repel her. As a heterosexual woman she will not feel sexually attracted towards a man who needs her to generate comfort. She might feel maternal only if she has enough affection towards you.
- Intimacy for a woman is not you being passive in bed. Again, it demonstrates a fear of her and putting her on a pedestal. This type of energy is the way little boys treat their mothers. Most mothers don’t have the urge to fuck their sons after they’ve wiped the snot off their noses.
- Sexual Intimacy for a woman is not when you act like her therapist, letting her use you like an emotional tampon. That type of intimacy is reserved for her girlfriends .
- Intimacy for a woman is not when you are an abusive hard-ass that has no empathy . When I say empathy, I want you guys to feel understanding for the woman without becoming a woman. These types of “low-level” alpha males who have no empathy can generate a lot of sexual attraction in a woman, but not real intimacy.
How to Know When You Are Really Intimate with a Woman
Women love gentle teasing. When she wants you to kiss her more/fuck her harder/move faster, when she is supplicating to you as her man, she is opening herself up to you completely. You are in complete control of the interaction. You are leading her on a roller-coaster ride of highs and lows. If you are in complete charge + she is loving it = intimacy for her. Whether you are whispering things in her ear, commanding her to perform a certain action, telling her a story, escalating sexually, or otherwise leading, you will see that she is in a virtual hypnotic state. That means she is feeling Intimate with you.
When you have a Good Girl horny enough and comfortable enough with you to cry out “fuck my little pussy! PLEASE!” it means she is feeling very, very Intimate with you.
Think about it guys: When a woman says you make her feel wonderful, it means she feels close to you, she knows that you really understand her, her mind and her body. That’s intimacy for a woman.
The problem with society is they paint male-female intimacy as either in a boy-mother light or a girlfriend-girlfriend light. When a woman talks about being intimate with her male lover, those are not the two kinds of intimacy she is talking about. We are here to learn about a more masculine way to create intimacy for the woman.
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spezzatura:
Why You Should or Should Not Pay For Her
This post is a result of my brain churning after reading another thread on the topic, and re-reading Robert B. Cialdini's Science and Practice.
Should we pay for her or not? There are different situations and different answers for different people, and that's not what this post is about.
What this is about is the original reasoning behind the 'not paying for her' concept.
As many PUA's are aware, many of the top guru's have referenced this book at some point or another - Mystery, RJ, Style, David D - just to name a few. And after reading the whole book again at this point in my PU life, I can easily see where many of them developed a lot of their concepts from it. This is not a book recommendation, but seriously, read the damn thing already if you haven't!
Maybe this could clear some things up.
In Chapter 2, Cialdini talks about the reciprocation rule. Basically, the rule is if you do something for me, you will expect that I eventually do something for you back. It is human nature derived from evolution where people found survival much easier when they shared resources with others.
However, what has been found, is that if you do something for me, I will feel the need to not only to repay the resources, but to CONTINUE to repay even to the point where it is no longer equal. Cialdini says that compliance professionals have become quite adept at exploiting this.
He references the Hare Krishna, who, after being low on funds, would give 'free' flowers to passers-by at airports, only to then ask them for a small 'donation' in return. How many of us have grown weary of the free lunch or realized that nothing in this world is for free.
He even quotes a female student of his who always refuses guys who ask her if they could buy her a drink because she feels that if she accepts, she feels that through the rule of reciprocity, that she would have to 'give back' by becoming sexual with him. That she would be 'indebted' to him.
So, for the guys who offer dinner, drinks, gifts - they are basically offering, through the rule of reciprocity, trading resources for sex.
What this means for us PUAs:
It means nothing, and a lot. Many of us use the advice of offering her 'I'll pay for this, you pay for the next thing we do.' I fully agree with this method for a lot of reasons. First, instead of trying to receive sex from her as something that we 'get' and they, the women 'give', we are still simply trading resource for resource, while at the same time, we are building our RELATIONSHIP together that we both can SHARE.
Sex is something that we both enjoy together, and is an expression of our feelings, attraction, comfort, etc.
Resources are simply resources.
At the same time, as many have pointed out, it's important that we do not appear 'cheap' by not paying. If we do not have resources to give, then we cannot protect our offspring later on.
So, for me, it doesn't matter who pays what, what matters is the FRAME. The FRAME for me that works, or rather that converts to lays or relationships or whatever, is that the girl and I are in this thing together. If she drives to come see me, I'll pay for the dinner. Then she can pay for desert, etc. It's a shared world that we are creating where not one person has more valuable sex to give than the other. The sex will flow naturally when it is time, and it is something that we will share, when it feels right. Ironically, sex comes much quicker with this attitude.
In other words, I wouldn't worry about who pays what for when. That concept was a big one for me when I first read David D's stuff four years ago. Now that I understand the theory behind it, that rule is changeable depending on the circumstance. It is not 'supplicating' if the girl has already invested her resources in me.
In other words, focus on the FRAME of the interaction rather than the little bitty details.
Is it ON? Are you CONNECTING on a wide range of topics? Are you switching locations seamlessly and effortlessly? Does it feel like you've known each other forever?
Focus on that stuff. The rest is chump change.
I hope this clears things up. At least, this is the way it works for me.
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DJ (www.awakeningjourneys.blogspot.com):
Eradicating the Root of Male Neediness
Many of the guys I work with come to me thinking that what they seek is more attention and more intimacy from the opposite sex. They think if they could just get that one girl, they would be happy. Problem is, the “If I could only…” attitude is one that affirms lack and therefore creates need. Nothing can block us from what we seek more than need. Need disallows room for curiosity, creativity, and flexibility – the three things that can bring us more of what we want.
These guys sometimes find that as their success increases, your definition of success changes as well and may even create more need. Whereas before, a simple smile from a woman made them feel good, now they need to see her again and so forth.
There is so much talk out there about not trying to the point where we “Try not to try.” This also is a dead end road. If you are trying, you are not doing.
So then, people continue to ask me: “How do I get rid of neediness?” It almost seems like a riddle. But it is possible and it is simpler than you might think.
First, many of the guys who come into a study of the social arts do so hoping to increase their success with the opposite sex. Sounds simple and easy, right? At face value it is. However as warriors we cannot stop there, we must question deeper.
I find that to many of those guys, the notion of wanting more women is really a means to wanting more of a feeling. It is a symptom, if you will. It is not an end in itself, it is the way they think they can get more of what they really want.
What is it that they really want? People do not seek things per se, they seek emotions and feelings. We want to feel good about ourselves, we want to feel confident, and we want to feel as though we are part of something bigger. The activities in which we engage are ways that we believe will bring us more of the feeling.
Sometimes it works…to a degree. But it never works if that feeling creates a new high, raises the bar, and drives us to need more and more of it. And when we don’t get it, we feel the opposite of those good feelings. Consider the scenario:
So how do we then eradicate neediness?
Well one way might be to find alternate ways to get more of the feeling we seek but ultimately that would also be fragile.
The key lies in understanding what it is that we really want rather than what we think we want.
In my experience, most of the men I work with are primarily looking for one thing: Validation of their masculinity.
In a society that discourages men from being men and women from being women and provides no rites of passages and positive role models, it can be really easy to get lost in our search for what it means to be a man. It can be easy to think that more sex and even aggression can bring us more masculine validation. In our search for more masculinity, it can become easy to forsake subtlety and gentleness in favor of such things as cocky funny and alpha male behaviors which may make us think we are becoming more masculine.
The real way to eradicate neediness and become more masculine is to shift the stimulus we seek as validation of our masculinity into a new paradigm. What would it be like if you really didn’t need sex, you could be a genuinely nice and caring person, and you could still have all the positive virtues of a man? What if this new you could be far more attractive to women than you ever thought possible? Well, it is possible.
The first step is to redefine your understanding of the masculine and all that it can be. David Deida provides us a nice start:
The essential Masculine style of search is that of the warrior, the hero, or the visionary. The Masculine force is one-pointed, directional, and guided by a vision of freedom. Masculine energy cuts through any obstacles that are in its path. Nothing deters the Masculine from its goal of freedom. However, not every man uses his Masculine energy to search for freedom in the same way.
Then, we must transfer what validates us from something outside ourselves that is characterized by fragility to something internal that is unshakeable. When we are internally centered, we don’t get caught up in the ups and downs of needing, getting, and needing more that an external source of validation provides. A great way to do this is to get our priorities in order. When we shift our primary validation from something external such as how women respond to us to something internal and higher such as a spiritual practice, our entire experience of life transforms.
Now we no longer need to furiously pursue the latest technique in search of more and greater success. We, like Deida states, can abide in the freedom of the warrior’s quest – the freedom that allows us to open to all of our resources unencumbered by need and draw from our curiosity, creativity, and flexibility. Our sense of who we are as a man is no longer in question and is no longer in the hands of women. It is our own. Whether a woman (or anyone) responds to us favorably or unfavorably is her issue and not ours. We are free to just be and free of need for the latest tactic, tool, or technique that can make things go our way.
In fact, we can begin to realize that control at all is an illusion and that the only thing we can control is ourselves. We can let people be who and where they are because we are comfortable being who and how we are.
And as a side result, when and as we do this, we curiously also find our attraction from the opposite sex to skyrocket. We are free of need and therefore are free to get more of what we want and in this unhindered state of being, we exude those qualities that women strongly respond to but are absent in so many men.
And it is this freedom that really characterizes our search for the masculine.
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MINI-ANNOUNCEMENTS (includes promos of new sites, podcasts, events, products, etc.)
See the on-line version of this email at www.cliffslist.com (click on "Letter") for more details about many of the following - once on the "Letter" page on the website, scroll down to the Promo section where you will see the Maxi-Announcements.
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- Zan Perrion has just launched his new Natural Game forum at www.naturalgame.com. A quote from Zan on the philosophy of the new forum: "It is time for change. I truly believe there is a next level of interaction between men and women that wants to be created on this earth. A Seduction Community 2.0, in a sense. We have hit the boundaries of what it is possible to explore. Like the early adventurers, crafting rickety canoes and rafts with tenuous sails, we have ventured out into the unknown sea and gone as far as these early vessels could take us. To explore further, to discover new lands, to be true treasure hunters, we need faster and better ships... This is the essence of natural game..."
- Suzy Bauer will be finally opening the doors to the Threesome PUA Secret Society and she has done a really sensual video tour of the "virtual lodge" of the Secret Society and you really gotta see it! As the Secret Society is opening on Jan 31st, she's running an "Early Bird" special and by simply trying the Secret Society Membership for 30 days she's giving away a truck load of expensive gifts for free! www.suzybauer.com/
- Mark J. Ryan, The Seduction King, and John Overdurf are giving away one of their greatest products, Mind Power for Life. This is an amazing process that Mark has used very successfully while teaching and coaching men to overcome fear and attain their goals with women. It's a very simple process, easy to implement, and it will change your life overnight. It's completely FREE; they're not even asking for email addresses. Go to www.MindPowerforFree.com and empower yourself now!
- Here is a great audio that is an hour and 20 minutes long about the psychology of strippers. Specifically, this audio describes how strippers are brainwashed, how brainwashing is used to get girls to dance, and how they are taught to brainwash you into giving them all your money. One of the participants in this podcast has written and amazing book about how to make $100,000 a year as a strip club DJ. You won't want to miss this interview by The Seduction King, Mark Ryan. Check out his link: www.stripclubdj101.com/?
- Payton Kane has revised his new powerhouse website and has his spectacular new Home Study Course available: www.seduceandconquer.com/
- David Wygant has a number of products available, including his Men's Audio Mastery Series (a complete 8 volume set), his book for men, Date to Win, his Girls Tell All Audio Series, one on Pickups and one on Secrets of Sex, his book Meet Someone Today, his audio product What's Your Excuse, and his original signature book Always Talk to Strangers. More info at: www.davidwygant.com/
- Miso: If you are in Toronto area or nearby for Valentine's day, consider the intensive Valentine's Weekend bootcamp by Natural Seducers on February 14-17th. They have teamed up with a master hypnotist, speed seducer and sexual demi-God and are offering one-of-a-kind, one time only, 2-for-1 workshop for all guys who ended up single on V-day, as well as all guys looking to expand their circle of girlfriends immensely and in the shortest amount of time! Main focus is working inside-out - getting rid of your anxieties, limiting beliefs and all things negative holding you back from all the success you should be having with women in your life, and arming you with highly contagious, natural skills and confidence that will stay with you for life and will allow you to seduce women you lay your eyes on in seconds... and they're not kidding (they'll put their money where their mouth is)! Time needed to run any sort of direct game, natural game or speed seduction has been trimmed off any excess fat and will be taught to you by some of the most effective seducers around!" naturalseducers.com/
- Captain Jack has a couple of new products out, check these out:
1) The Warrior-King Society: Freedom, Money, Sex and Power Crush Previous Income Levels, Recapture Lost Sexual Vigor and Health, Rediscover Your Innate Masculine Instincts and Drive So You CanDominate Your World and Become King of Your Own Ideal Life --Like You were Destined To... Captain Jack's Warrior King Society: www.thewarriorkingsociety.com/
2) Captain Jack's Six Week eCoaching Program for Discovering How to Sexualize Your Game, Blast Through Sticking Points and Build a Social Circle in Just 42 Days www.betheseducer.com/
- The Pickup Podcast with AJ and Jordan continues to bring you the best free audio content in the community on a weekly basis and includes interviews with all the big names from Lance Mason to Ross Jeffries and even Neil Strauss. Check it out at pickuppodcast.com
- Scot McKay has just launched the VIRTUOSITY series, featuring over two-dozen of the most respected names in men's attraction and seduction advice. With six full sections, the amount of sheer value in Scot's new program challenges any advanced series ever produced. Best of all, Scot's character-based approach is very evident throughout. VIRTUOSITY deserves serious consideration by any man who is through with trickery and quick-fixes and is ready to deserve the highest echelon of women on Earth. Full coverage of online dating that rivals stand-alone products elsewhere is one of the many pluses, and even 1-on-1 time with Scot is included. This is a groundbreaking release which is sure to raise the bar. Check it out at: deservewhatyouwant.com/virtuosity/special/ You can also get his flagship ebook product Deserve What You Want here: deservewhatyouwant.com/ebook/
- Gabrielle Moore has prepared an eye-opening video about the G-Spot orgasm. Gabrielle is the author of the now-famous book "The Female Orgasm Revealed". And now Gabrielle decided to take her intimate advice to the next level. You´ll be impressed (just as I was!) To watch the video now, go to: www.thegspotcode.com/afvideo.html
- Jorj has some interesting products available including the "Attraction Magnet" (more details in the full Promo section which is below, only on the website) www.magicalmindpower.com/lovepower.htm
- Johnny Soporno (www.TheWorthyPlayboyInstitute.com), a major hit at the 2006 Cliff's List Convention, is now offering bootcamps, his new book, and some extensive free downloads. For more details, check out the full promo below (if you are reading this in an email, it's on the online verstion of this at www.cliffslist.com).
- Carlos Xuma has just released a very unique and special new program: Power Social Skills: Social Dynamics. This CD set will give you "X-ray" vision - to see past the surface of any social interaction and instantly know what each person is doing. You'll learn how to spot the games people play and defuse them - AND you'll be able to get to deeper connection with people. Go read his special report here: www.powersocialskills.com/
- PUATraining have a video showing a 2 minute day-time KISS CLOSE. It's an unbelievable video. They have that and 25 more in the free to access PUATrainingvault (www.puatraining.com/). To help others gain that unbreakable confidence, they have recently released an instant MP3 download called Approaching Confidence. Check it out here (www.puatraining.com/confidence).
- Magnus of Bristol Lair fame has written a book on Emotional Freedom Technique, with a PUA supplement on improving your Inner Game. The free videos on his site take you through how to use the techniques to reduce your approach anxiety and feel good in the field. There's also an hour-long seminar explaining how the technique works. www.innergametapping.com/
- Magnus: My buddy Sheriff is running a 30 day challenge for guys, with a $1,000 top prize. All you've got to do is keep an online journal, and go out every night. Free to enter, and should super-charge your game. www.growyourgame.com/
- Would you know if she was FAKING IT? Learn to blow her mind every time and set yourself apart from any other guy she has ever been with before. Subscribe to Alex Allman's FREE Newsletter and get hundreds of FREE tips and techniques that will have her bragging to her friends about your skills. www.revolutionarysex.com/
- The Joseph W. South Show! Relationship Mastery. Joseph's Rant on Love, Sex, Relationships... and the Business of Life! josephwentsouth.com
- For a limited time, save $28 on Magic Bullets By Savoy at this review page: www.squidoo.com/magicbulletsbook. Go Here To Download The Seduction Community Toolbar by Diabolik - www.diabolikseduction.com/the-seduction-community-toolbar-by-diabolik/
- Prof's Seduction Blog is all about Attraction and Pick Up, The life and learnings of a pick up artist. Seduction, dating, and the art of attraction. Meet women of exceptional beauty. www.seduction-blog.com
- Marius Panzarella: This link goes to a special page with the download link for a free ebook and also a discount offer that is only available to readers of Cliff's List. www.datebeautifulwomen.com/ezine.html
- Savoy: www.lovesystems.com/blogs has my blog, Sinn’s blog, Captain Jack’s blog, Tenmagnet’s blog, etc…a lot of talent. And www.lovesystems.com/publications has a free publications library.
- Steve Taylor, a.k.a. Lifeguard, teaches guys how to become a cool, confident, fun and sexy guy that women love. You can sign up for a live workshop or Distance Coaching at www.confidentimage.com or visit his blog: datingskillsforrealmen.blogspot.com
- Any girl deserves a chance to be presented with a choice... and we sometimes need to forgive and forget the people who made us create negative assumptions about the new women we meet... www.NoNonSenseLife.com - It's written in both English and Spanish
- How to attract women Naturally! Check out Cameron Teone’s Building Attraction Secrets. What makes this book any different or unique to other books? The fact that it makes a perfect symbiosis between inner game and outer game on the one hand, and the theoretical and practical on the other hand as well as implementing the very important concepts of lifestyle and masculinity in a very practical manner that will change your life forever. Check it out at www.attractwomenanywhere.com/ebook.html
- ACE is a specialist in the art of charisma and teaches workshops. Email acepua@gmail.com to arrange a place.
- Jake Rockford: How to separate the men from the boys: Finally there is an "all-in-one" toolbox for ultimate success for today's Urban Renaissance Man. Whether you want natural And simple ways To meet, attract, and date The women Who Are Right For YOU, learn how to get a kick-butt, no-nonsense workout in as little as four minutes while saying 'Goodbye' to health club fees, or master ancient and powerful tantric secrets of multiple orgasm for both you AND her, "The Dangerous Book" has it all! All this plus a goldmine of games, puzzles, bar bets, and impromptu magic tricks for fun and fascination anywhere, anytime and time-tested tools to build focus, intention, and creativity... The Dangerous Book is here to help you be your absolute best! www.thedangerousbook.net/Check_it_out.html
- Lucas J. West : You can sign up for my email list at www.LucasWest.com. The second or third email you'll get gives you a direct link to everything I've put out over the past year. I recommend reading the Rapport Report and the Path of Least Resistance as your major starting points (they're both free). As for Demonic Confidence, that's at www.DemonicConfidence.com. Guys can contact Lucas if they already have decided they want a skype hypnosis session with a reputable professional by sending him an email at lucas@lucaswest.com.
- New product release: "The Naturally Magnetic Male Conditioning System." Are you interested in developing a high level of charisma and personal magnetism that will help you in EVERY area of your life? The 15 clear cut steps use progressive conditioning, the best charisma techniques and traits of naturals to bring out the magnetic male already living within you. puahelpdesk.com/
- Lisa Lloyd offers "The Only Real Lesbian Seduction Guide For Men" which she claims will give you a head start on other men when dating. The guide reveals dating methods from a lesbian perspective, as "a fascinating insight into a woman's mind/body and she answers questions such as "Why can't women say no to other women?" www.lesbian-seduction-guide.com/
- Attract and Date has released the new Home Study Course: 10 students filmed on a Workshop where everyone had, at least, a date from the street. Great quality of picture and sound! Everyone is wired with audio and action is totally realistic. You get to see their shining successes and big failures also. See and HEAR for the first time students like a 40 year old scientist that never approached on the street with Sharks "I like you" and getting fantastic results! Go to www.AttractAndDate.com to see 50 screen shots from the DVD Course. Get inspired!
- Frank B Kermit (www.lulu.com/content/1585762): Brother Kermit has just published I'm A Man, That's My Job: The Philosophy of a Seducer, A Complete Inner Game Workbook. Here is the link: www.lulu.com/content/875062 You can buy it for $49.95 US. It has all the lists, plus more. The rules of relationships The base life philosophies AND A description of the 10 stages of development from Loser to Seducer to Natural. This book also has charts to track your development. Are you curious as to what goes on at lair meetings? Well, we can not tell you the details, but I can share this with you: We do Emotional Needs Analysis as a group. What is an ENA (Emotional Needs Analysis)? You are given a situation, based on a real experience, and then do an analysis of that situation applying Frank B Kermit's 10 emotional needs of women theories. It was developed as part of the Bring Up the Skill Levels of All Newbies Program. If you were banned from a lair, or if you want to learn seduction, but do not want to be identified by other students of the art, you can still get the lair experience. Just check out this 120+ preview: www.lulu.com/browse/preview.php?fCID=1585762 Go through it. Check it out. See if you got the understanding of men-women dynamics to figure out the answer. I hope you learn something.
- Art, the well know day game master, has been with Pickup community since 2002 and has just started Pick Up Future, a site that will hold predictions about the future of the pickup community, and which direction community is heading. Did you know that Pickup is becoming an industry? Did you know that Style Life training was ahead of Mystery Method in visitors? Do you know what will happen in 2008 for pickup community? If you would like to know answers to this and many more other question, and see what future holds for pick up artists, then go to www.PickUpFuture.com. He also has just launched his new site, centered around educating men on seduction in 1on1 carefully individualized coaching packages. Available only in NYC: www.NewYorkDatingCoach.com
- Most dating "gurus" talk about inner game, but fall far short in actually providing you with practical solutions for solving your inner game issues. With his Hypnotica's program, "Ultimate Inner Game", you can transform your mind and emotions in just days! www.ultimateinnergame.com/
- DiClassified DRILLS! Vin DiCarlo of DiCarlo DiClassified has released his new drill-based training, which boasts a total of 36+ real time drills specifically designed for pick-up training. Drills based-training develops your game in a way that is systematic, effective, personalized, natural and best of all, fun! The curriculum can be found at www.vindicarlo.com/drills
- Thundercat's Art of Approaching is available here: www.artofapproaching.com/
- Want to master your sex life? Male escort and liv e s ex performer NathanX leads a team of male and female s ex instructors in their intensive and popular workshop “Sexual Mastery for Men”. They teach what 99.9% of guys do not know and will never know. Where PUA skills end, sexual mastery skills begin. PUA skills enable you to get the girl. Sexual and relationship management enables you to keep her in the sort of relationships you want. Workshops also include a live demonstration of techniques! What they teach at MYSL is the real deal. No one else in the world is teaching what they teach. Free videos, audios and blog. www.masteryoursexlife.com/products/volume1/
- Doc, a featured speaker at both the 2005 & 2006 Cliff's List Conventions, is holding seminars. For more info go to his new site at www.TrueLifeSkills.com.
- Cardinal just wanted to let you know that he's going to release The Cardinal Flight Plan (CFP) Ebook soon. He's so confident that this book is going to be a hit, he's going to offer the first 25 people a free copy! Yup, the first 25 people to visit Seductiontech.com will get a free copy. He will send out a mass email once he officially releases the CFP... Go to Seductiontech.com and sign-up for his newsletter, and be sure to watch your email.
- In the Toronto area Christiano has been teaching men to work from their inner game to outer game in a way that is congruent to their identity. Most see results after being taught the skills in the workshop immediately. Find out more by visiting: bestnaturalgame.com.
- Ron Louis & David Copeland have put out a new ebook "How to be the Bad Boy Women Love." Find out more at howtosucceedwithwomen.com/htg/
- New Book/Audio release: "Park Bench Dating." Are you currently meeting women in the day time? Do you know how easy it is to get a quality number in a few minutes, just as you go through your day? Written by Art, an NYC dating coach, who came from PUA community and turned pure natural. Covered by The New York Times and ABC Television, his methods of meeting in the day time are so effective simply because they are so easy to use everyday. www.ParkBenchDating.com
- Uncle Ruckus has started a new YouTube show called "The Nice Guy Show" and he'd like for you to watch. You can also visit his home page at www.adviceonwomen.com. He plugs Cliff's List on a recent one, too!
- Society "Of Cool" - Description of Group: Simple: This place is for all of you dudes and chicks who are rad cool and want to step their game up in life with wealth building(money) and relationship building (women/men). Living a healthy lifestyle is considered "cool" as well.. This place is ONLY FOR COOL PEOPLE. If you are a beta male, chump, nerd, loser, you are getting your a$$ banned! Visit this Link: www.spiritual-seduction.com/phpBB2/index.php?c=1
- Gigi has just launched a new website: www.puaratings.com PUA Ratings evolves around a rating system for PUA products, where you can rate and write your own reviews about your favorite (and not so favorite) seduction products or bootcamps, and read what others have to say about them, before you make a purchase. The site also features a 'PUA Comparison Engine', a tool that will become more and more viable as more reviews enter the system. There's also a forum and a live chat where live events will be hosted. So make your opinion count - sharpen your keyboards and start writing reviews!
- Rion Williams has announced and released his pioneering 'Secret to Women' video, downloadable eBook and podcast. Something as ambitious as that just has to be seen for yourself. www.secretofwomen.com/resources.htm. Rion has also released the community/content site 'AboveTheGame.NET.' Its got articles, blogs, user profiles, an active forum, chat and more. You can even create your own blog and submit your own dating/seduction content or questions. The community is focused on how to be a 'natural' ladies man. www.abovethegame.net
- Herbal, one of the characters made famous by The Game, has finally released an ebook after taking some time away from the community. He also offers a free 10 Day E-Mail Bootcamp." For more information, visit www.makeherchaseyou.com/
- Cardinal (www.Seductiontech.com): Puanetwork.com Web 2.0 Live! I just wanted to let you know that the New Web2.0 Version of the Puanetwork is up and live. Since the show aired, the puanetwork has really picked up! Ignore my PUN =) Come join the fastest growing social networking site for the community!
- How to be an all-around cooler person - completely free, practical advice for guys on social skills, getting along with people, and getting your act together - all written by a recovered loser. Not everyone will need to read the material here, but take a look if you think you could benefit from improving your people skills before diving into the seduction game. Feel free to check it out at www.howtobecooler.com
- LayGuide was the original inspiration for Neil Strauss to write "The Game" and is still the most thorough and continually updated collection of the best dating, attraction and seduction tips in the world: www.layguide.com/
- In The Game by Neil Strauss, "TwoTimer" is talked about as one of the top players. His more commonly known handle is IN10SE, and his "Octoberman Sequence" has been whispered about and become a LEGEND in the on-line Pickup artist community. It's rumored to give a woman ULTIMATE pleasure and you ULTIMATE control - in as little as 15 minutes! Only the BEST of the BEST know it. Check it out here: www.octoberman.com/
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CONTRIBUTE TO CLIFF'S LIST: To contribute to Cliff's List, please send an email to cliff@cliffslist.com with your originally written article, field report, review, or other comments. Comments from people commenting on other submissions are separated by HHHHHH with each commentator's name preceding each comment. Comments from previous emails are preceded by an ">", usually in front of that commentator's name. Feel free to forward this email to all your friends and encourage them to request a free subscription by going to www.cliffslist.com and follow instructions to "Subscribe." You can also unsubscribe on the site as well. If you would like to be added to the free joke list (and please mention if you do not want to receive the adult emails that come with the joke list), send an email to cliff@cliffslist.com. All posts you see here have been submitted by the author, or permission granted by the author to be reposted here. All emails with comments should be sent to cliff@cliffslist.com. If you are reading this as an email, you want to go to www.cliffslist.com and see the entire email, which includes Lair listings (see if there is one in your city or start one if there isn't), promotional notices, seminar notices, new product and website announcements - and lots more. This email has been edited and modified to allow it to pass through the various email filters - the unedited version is on the website.
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PROMOS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & REVIEWS SECTION
(there are NO paid ads in this list and never have been. The "commercial" section is distinguished by the "--------------" separators):
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LAIR SECTION
Lairs are gatherings of PUA's of differing levels and talents that meet in different cities to discuss their experiences and to work together to improve their success with women.
More Lair Listings can be found at dutchseduction.blogspot.com/ and at www.bristollair.com, as well as at www.seductionlair.com:
A YAHOO GROUP FOR THOSE RUNNING LAIRS:
If and ONLY if you are running a lair there is now a Yahoo Group for organization ideas for PUA groups. As each lair is different, this group lets us know what other lairs are doing. No seduction related topics are discussed, just organization ideas. To join please email RunningaPUAgroup-subscribe@yahoogroups.com and then email Nightlife at nightlife858@yahoo.com with an intro of who you are and what Lair you are running. You can also go to: groups.yahoo.com/group/RunningaPUAgroup/
LAIR GROUP
If you run a lair or are considering starting one, join this group to exchange ideas with the rest of the community and keep informed of community activities. www.LairList.com Contact: LairList@LairList.com
Lair List is an official directory of lairs worldwide. The Lair List Foundation is an international nonprofit cooperation of lair owners. LairList.com is completely nonprofit. LairList.com is 100% non-commercial. If you run a lair or are considering starting one, register your lair here lairlist.com/index.php?option=com_comprofiler&task=registers. Join this group (lounge.lairlist.com/) to exchange ideas with the international lair community. Get the latest seduction news from around the world (www.lairlist.com/).
HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE MONTREAL LAIR:
- Lair meetings are scheduled currently once a month on Sundays. For more info on joining the Lair (local only, sorry), email me. Out of town bros are welcome to drop in to meetings. The Lair now has a magnificent new online discussion forum that was put together by Loveur.
The Lair meetings are very insightful gatherings of guys interested in learning, improving, and helping others to become more successful in their relationships with women. If you are already in a relationship, and you continue to read these emails, you should realize that there is information here to improve and enhance your existing relationship - not only to create new ones.
Here is a list of other Lairs around the world (if you know of any others, please let me know):
MONTREAL JUNIOR LAIR FOUNDED!
Montreal Junior Lair: The Montreal X-Lair has been founded to help minors (who are not permitted to join the Montreal Lair until they are 18) get together and communicate. Lair applications would be sent to MontrealXLair@hotmail.com.
NEW FRENCH MONTREAL LAIR FORMED
Good news! Montreal has now a FRENCH Lair! Oui! Ever wanted to be part of a lair without having to learn another language?
- A lair which would offer you support
- A lair which would allow you to find new wingman
- A lair where you would be able to learn
- A lair where you would be able to share
- A lair which would offer occasions to sarge
- A lair where you would be able to conquer your fear
- A lair which would allow you to become a better PUA 100 times faster
And all that in FRENCH! Now is your chance! We've just opened our forum located at www.seduire.ca , registration are free. You can also apply to become a Montreal VIP which will offer you the possibility to be part of the best French PUA Team in Montreal. We also have a section dedicated to people of Quebec City cause we love you :) Note that the sooner you become part of our family, the sooner you'll be the person you want to become.
Many of our members are experts in specifics techniques such as Mystery Method, Juggler Method, direct/indirect techniques and know about their stuff. They are the people you want to hang with. As David DeAngelo too often said: "You want to befriend those people who've got the talent you want to have so you can learn with them and from them." The forum is located at www.seduire.ca. We hope to see you there soon!
NEW LAIR IN TORONTO
Frank B Kermit's Toronto Seduction Lair
No Minors! No Hazing Rituals! No Membership Fees! No Referral Link 'Click Fees'! No Forced Paid Workshops to gain access! No Organized Pirating of Copyright Materials! No illegal activates nor criminal associations whatsoever! Fully MODERATED to encourage a 100% RESPECTFUL learning environment!
An Advanced Section for Gurus and Top Guys who have mastered basic game! Separate sections for Commercial announcements and seduction Discussions!
Seduction Gurus are WELCOMED directly into the Advanced Section! An Active Free Newbie System designed to bring up skill levels FASTER!
Men's Only Group (confidentiality and privacy assured)! A Seduction FOCUSED group, no distractions! www.torontolair.ca/
THE TORONTO LAIR
The Toronto Lair is called TSN or Toronto Social.net. Anyone who gets to the homepage at www.TorontoSocial.net./ can email the webmaster to get information. If that's not an option, they can call Ike at: 416-628-9973 or his cell at: 416-300-6500.
MORE TORONTO
There are at least two other PUA groups in Toronto:
www.torontophoenixsociety.com
and
www.torontolair.org
VANCOUVER SOCIAL BOARD
A tight and good group of guys from various backgrounds who want to learn how to become better with women. We have two rules 1) this is not a competition, we are here to help each other and 2) you must be willing to try. We go out very regularly and have some skilled guys.
Visit Yahoo Group: groups.yahoo.com/group/vancouversocialboard/ Contact: Docandwriter (docandwriter@shaw.ca)
Victoria Social society
This is an open group for all you Victorian men (Victoria, British Columbia, Canada)who wish the study and pursue the art of seduction.
Visit Yahoo Group:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/victoriasocialsociety/
Contact: Docandwriter (docandwriter@shaw.ca)
Calgary Social Group
This is the Calgary PUA Lair for men (young and old) who want to get together to discuss PU and go sarging in Calgary. This group is meant to enrich the lives of men and, I believe ,women indirectly. Everyone can learn and it's only the lack of support and positive influence that cause people to stop trying. Here we can all grow as men and learn the skills we need to accomplish our goals.
Visit Yahoo Group: groups.yahoo.com/group/calgarysocialgroup/
Contact: Elantraman (elantraman2002@yahoo.com) or Docandwriter (docandwriter@shaw.ca)
NEW SOUTH AFRICAN SEDUCTION LAIR:
The South African Seduction Lair unites guys from all the major cities in Johannesburg, Cape Town, Port Elizabeth and Durban. We have a excellent cultural mix and therefore the women are very diverse and different strategies sometimes need to be applied to achieve results. We have very experienced members in Speed Seduction, NLP, Direct Approach, Cocky & Funny, etc. We will introduce you to a key wingman in your city. And on our Google Group you can download free resources from all over the Internet. Contact ramon@ramonthomas.com for more info. Join here: groups.google.com/group/sa-seduction-lair
NEW BRIGHTON LAIR
Darklight wrote to announce the new Lair which has just been set up in sunny Brighton on the south coast of England. They are a small group of PUAs hitting up the bars, clubs, street and beaches of Brighton. People are welcome to join, all styles and skill levels -- so long as they are active in field. Contact them at uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/brightonpickup/ or at brightonpickup@googlemail.com
IRISH LAIR
The Irish Lair has 211 members and was started December, 2005. Its Lair Leader is Stealth and their website is: www.irishseduction.com/forum or you can contact: stealth.waves@gmail.com or xrockridgex@gmail.com
New Lair in Grenoble
www.verselejus.com/pua/index.php?topic=1247.0
NEW LAIR FORMING IN MILWAUKEE:
I am going to be starting a new lair consisting of only the Milwaukee and surrounding areas naturals. I feel like with this caliber of a Lair only success is an option. This is going to be a bunch of guys meeting up sporadically for sarging and for scheduled meetings. If you feel you qualify and can positively impact our group, email me at allimalgam@aol.com.
AUSTRIAN PLAYERS
Home of the legendary EuroSummit 2005, most diverse members from total beginners to serial layers from Austria, Germany and Switzerland. Join us! (If you happen to ravel by, drop us a line!) Visit: www.austrianplayers.com Contact: Neodes@austrianplayers.com
Also, a new board has been started named AUSTRIAN SEDUCTON COMMUNITY (ASC) and the Lair URL for that is www.austrianseduction.com. Ben and Rey can be reached at info@6system.info. Described as the next generation of PU-Communities! ASC supports you with: - public/private photo albums; Event calender & Lair meeting System; PU-Lexicon; Video Blog; personal Notes System; & the best German-speaking PUAs including 2 females!
NEW LAIR FORMING IN AMSTERDAM/HOLLAND:
The lair can be found at groups.yahoo.com/group/Amsterdam_Dating/
NEW LAIR FORMING IN MISSISSIPPI/ALABAMA
I'm starting up a lair in MS/AL for anyone in driving distance to the Birmingham area. Contact blake1_19@yahoo.com for anyone interested in joining.
SALT LAKE CITY AND SURROUNDING AREAS
AFCs to PUAs. Meet and share seduction tips. We meet once a week and help push members to become the man they desire! Contact UtahX at utahrafc@gmail.com
NEW LAIR FORMING IN NORFOLK-VIRGINIA BEACH, VIRGINIA
I'm interested in starting a Seduction Lair in the Norfolk-Virginia Beach area. If anyone is interested, please email me. Thanks, Stingray9001 stingray9001@yahoo.com
NEW LAIR FORMED IN DENVER
Denver Lair is a community for Denver/Boulder/Colorado area PUAs to wing, talk about the game and make friends in the community. If you're in the Colorado, join our yahoo-group: groups.yahoo.com/group/denver_puas/
NEW LAIR FORMING IN RICHMOND, VIRGINIA
Hi, I'm starting a lair in Richmond, Virginia, the state capitol with a rather big scene. Currently all gamers in Richmond are forced to go up to DC, or down to North Carolina if they wish to attend a lair meeting. I would like to keep that experience at home, as we have many beautiful women in this wonderful city. Send an email to miikey723@yahoo.com if you wish to join.
EUROPE LAIR FOUNDED
Red Priest has founded the Europe Lair. You can find the description here: http//groups.yahoo.com/group/europelair/
ISRAEL LAIR
For the Israel Lair, Tironut 69, go to www.tironut69.com
DUNEDIN, NEW ZEALAND LAIR FORMING
For all you Otago students (or campus orbiters) who think you got game! This will be the southernmost lair in the world. Run by an RAFC with a fair bit of bookwork and small experience- any skill level you want, just prepared to approach, talk and try out new stuff. Email me at beest.goes.roar@gmail.com, and will see if we can't get a local lair started. it's time to bring the game to the deep south!
WELLINGTON, NEW ZEALAND LAIR
An active lair is up and running in Wellington, NZ. Primary focus is going out and working in the field. All skill levels are welcome. Anybody who wants to join constructive, like-minded people in pursuing the PUA lifestyle. We have a forum, and a bunch of friendly people who can wing with you to get you off of the ground; email Matt via moxyfmac@gmail.com
TAMPA BAY AND ST. PETE, FLORIDA:
We started a new Lair in the Tampa Bay area. All styles welcome. e-mail us at paradigmaman@yahoo.com Also, go to www.toplair.com/ for more information about PUA Lair activity in Tampa.
NEW LAIR FORMING IN GENEVA
We want to create a Lair in Geneva, Switzerland. It would be open to French and English speaking people living in Geneva and neighbouring cities like Lausanne and France as well willing to meet and seduce women. All skill levels and ages are accepted. The main task of the Lair will be field experiences on a regular basis. Contact Julien at: Julien72@bluewin.ch
NEW GROUP FOR CHICAGO
Chicago Wingman Meetup Group which currently holds meetings on the first Saturday of every month at 3:00 pm, the place will be disclosed to members once they sign up for the group. The website address is wingman.meetup.com/18/ - this group is combining with the Chicago Lair, whose contact was Eric at theprogen2003@yahoo.com Since they've just starting to hold meetings, they have a flexible format but as they get more organized they plan to have guest speakers. Anyone who knows a local PUA (not self proclaimed) is encouraged to invite him/ her over to share ideas. Please post all org issues under www.fastseduction.com/cities/Chicago
NEW LAIR FOR EDMONTON
Edmonton Men's Social Improvement Club, a Registered Non-Profit Organization can be reached at: www.socialimprovementclub.org or by email: applicants@socialimprovementclub.org
SAN RAFAEL, CALIFORNIA
The Seduction Lair is up and running in San Rafael, California. Contact activte@aol.com for more information.
PARIS PICK UP CLUB
Formed by a group of FRIENDLY motivated guys from all nationalities with some solid game. The Paris Pick Up Club (PPC) is where all the PUA's and RAFC's BROTHERS living in Paris can share experiences, wing with different people and practice techniques. The goal is to IMPROVE our GAME while having lots of FUN. Since the purpose of the PPC is to practice, in order to join, future members must be available to sarge regularly. Contact alfaztec@yahoo.com
BELGIUM: NL Lounge at DutchSeduction.com
An independent platform for the phenomenon known as "seduction" in the Dutch language with members in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, Belgium and points beyond. Founded in 1999, we are one of the first international groups dedicated to seduction. Our purpose is to help members meet one another and share information and experience. Write to nllounge@dutchseduction.com. Visit our Website: www.DutchSeduction.com
NETHERLANDS: NL Lounge at DutchSeduction.com An independent platform for the phenomenon known as "seduction" in the Dutch language with members in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, Belgium and points beyond. Founded in 1999, we are one of the first international groups dedicated to seduction. Our purpose is to help members meet one another and share information and experience. Write to nllounge@dutchseduction.com. Visit our Website: www.DutchSeduction.com
NEW LAIR IN NEW ORLEANS
There is a new Lair in New Orleans and here is the info: groups.yahoo.com/group/NewOrleansPlayers/ - MIKEALW@HOTMAIL.COM.
Description: This group is for guys in the New Orleans area who are studying the Double your Dating material by David DeAngelo. This group is to get and give advice, to share your experiences and results, and to hook up with other guys so you can go out and work on your game together. Anyone in the New Orleans area is welcome from inexperienced to PUA's.
NEW LAIR IN SINGAPORE
The Singapore Lair is a community for guys interested in improving their skills in meeting and attracting/seducing women. This group is mainly for guys who live in or travel to Singapore, although PUAs from other countries are also welcome. Membership is restricted to doers only -- you must be in the field and have real field experience. No armchair theorists allowed. To join this group, email singaporelair-owner@yahoogroups.com with your name, background and experience.
DALLAS LAIR
The Dallas Seduction Lair has been around for over a year now. We have had 18 official events of both discussion and seminar style events. As well as countless nights of sarging with newfound wingmen by our members. We are now over 120 members strong. Anyone at any skill level with a desire to learn is welcome. More information at: wingman.meetup.com/6/ or www.DallasSeductionLair.com
DALLAS PUA
DallasPua.com is formed from the spirit of helping my fellow brothers become better in their sarging skills of women and of life; to develop their individual integrity. The site offers many free features such as a forum (www.dallaspua.com/forum), personal journals/blogs, extensive resource page, and more. It is based out of Dallas, but the tailored PUA features are available to anyone. This is your site! For more info go to www.DallasPua.com
HUNGARIAN LAIR FORMING
Hungarian Lair (Budapest) invites all visiting and local people for a great time of sarging in Budapest clubs and streets. We field test MM, SS, RSD, Maniac Plan and various other stuff. Contact us at redpriest_hu@yahoo.com!"
NEW LAIR FORMING IN ITALY:
Our goal is to have a lot of FUN! Why did we create a Lair? To keep in touch with each other and to rock the Italian scene, we want to live like rock stars since we know we DESERVE IT. We have had enough of all the boring guys and loser boyfriends out there that are making women's lives a nightmare when they are waiting for US, the playboys. Join us and we will share with you a lot of secrets that you need to know to totally transform your life life and get more choice not only in life but with every relationship. In order to learn you must be willing to go out with us and try new stuff asking to yourself: "What is possible? What if I get the results I only dreamed of and then even more than that?" Send an email at italy_lair@yahoo.com to join.
NEW LAIR FORMED IN NORWICH (UK):
The Norwich Lair is a group for pickup artists in Norwich (UK) and the surrounding areas. The lair meets every Saturday night, 10PM in Norwich City. The group is not a talking shop, if you want to remain in the lair you must participate in fieldwork every 90 days. To join the group, send an email to thenorwichlair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
OHIO LAIR FORMED:
An Ohio Lair has just been created for ASFers located in Ohio. I'm hoping to have regular sarging meetings at different cities in Ohio and regular guest speakers. Any ASFer in Ohio who is interested in joining please email me an intro of yourself to philonous03@yahoo.com.
VIRGINIA/CAROLINA LAIR GROUP
The VAC (Virginia Carolina) Lair is a community for Virginia and Carolina area PUAs to talk about the game, make friends in the community, and meet up with wings in the area. Current members are located in the Charlotte, Blacksburg/Radford, and Raleigh/Chapel Hill areas. While those from outside this area are encouraged to participate, most events will likely be held within these areas. The VAC Lair is open to all levels from Beginner to PickUp Artist (PUA). Just come with a desire to learn, a willingness to share what you know, and a commitment to field test what you learn. groups.yahoo.com/group/vaclair/
NEW YORK CITY LAIR:
New York City Team Strike Force - The oldest lair in the U.S. and the only one that can lay claim to having dedicated instructors of reputation on staff, just for the members. Very organized, very respected and very strong sense of community, as well as life balance. You know you want us.