No matter how fat or toothless or wrinkly or stinky I become
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Style (reposted from Mystery's Lounge with permission of the author - the comments from others in this discussion below are also reposted with their permission):
I had a really interesting time last night: four *closes. Of those, three I felt WANTED me. But either my game faltered at the last minute, or it's just a matter of waiting. I'd like some opinions.
PART ONE: THE PERSONALS
Inspired by Dkonstrukt, I've been trying the personals. My photo is not posted, but my profile is fun and challenging. I sent out about four emails. Got responses from two. Once I sent out my photo, one flaked and one kept emailing. I did lots of ball busting by email (using elements of the Dkonstrukt/David D email routine), and, as soon as she started asking me dumb fluff questions to "get to know me first," I turned the tables and made her qualify herself (using Ross J's "name three qualities" line). The great twist here is that I told her that she wouldn't get my number until she earned 15 points. The points were added and subtracted depending on whether I liked what she said in the emails, how she described herself, etc. Once we exchanged #s, she said, "I've never had to work so hard for anyone's phone number before." Awesome! Anyway, I met her for a quick drink tonight. I was pleased: she was a little older, but very classy and attractive, an 8.5. Right away, she said, "You're sexy." God, I love it. I was NEVER a good-looking guy who women found attractive or complimented until about three weeks ago. Whatever I did to change my look is working. It's the longer goatee, the head shaved clean all the time, and the black boa/scarf, perhaps. And it's the realization that any guy can be a 9 if they are willing to change themselves and their style without saying, "But that's not me." I told her that my place was across the street, and if she was good and promised not to stalk me, I'd point out my balcony to her. I did the Cube and blew her away. She rated its accuracy a 10. Her body language was SO leaning in to me, and she kino
'ed me a lot. Whenever she asked screening questions ("what's your longest relationship"), I'd bust on her for screening and talk about how I do it to girls, too. I made my standards seem very high (thanks Rio). Anyway, I was playful, funny, transitioned to sex (she loves talking about it), and teased her for being attracted to me. I KNEW that she wanted to fuck me. But, at the same time, she was stressed about work and her INTERNAL PROGRAM would not let her fuck a guy right after meeting him out of the personals. She also said something about wanting the anticipation when I tried to instant date her for later that night. I walked her to her car after an hour-long meeting, and we had an awesome make out session, with our hands all over each other. I ALWAYS try to get feedback from women for future reference. So I asked her when she first knew she wanted to kiss me, and she said, "As soon as she saw me." (This is all new for me: I was never good-looking until three weeks ago, LOL.) I KNEW she wanted to fuck me, but I also knew that if I invited her upstairs, she'd decline. So I was in a catch-22, and let her leave. But as we were making out, she said, "I HAVE to cancel my plans tomorrow." So, my plan is to invite her over to "play" (her word) tomorrow, then for the best sushi of her life, and then back to my place again to watch Arte's New Sex video (I mentioned it to her).
PART TWO: REAL LIFE
After, I went to a concert at a small club. Arrived alone. The first approach is always the hardest, because it is forced. You have to FORCE yourself. And this is hard for me. I'm not an approach machine like Paps or Devilhimself or Getsome, though it is the approach machines who learn the quickest. I spotted the HOTTEST girl there. A tall, leggy blonde: a total 10. She walked by, and then turned around and said, "Style." It turns out it's a girl I met a year ago (early in my sarging days), and went out with once. I posted an old FR on being too chicken to kiss her at the time. Anyway, she had her hair dyed blonde with extensions, and was just smoking. Only problem is she has a very flat personality: doesn't show emotion. She was with an UG , so I demonstrated a new trick for the UG where I break a pencil in half with a dollar bill. Only I FAILED! Very embarrassing. But I #closed the 10 anyway. Now I felt good. I noticed a tall girl with tattoos and dyed platinum red hair, and a nice body in tight black clothes. I just used a lame opener about the band, and then went into cold reading, telling her that she was visual, telling her she was probably clumsy as a child, and negging her for being a tweaker who probably stays up all night making paintings by glue-gunning dried macaroni to canvases. I pulled her into the corner for a psychic reading, and felt that it was on for a *close. She said that she was with the band, and they were all getting in a limo and going to a burlesque club after. She was a stripper (or ex stripper, or ex burlesque dancer, or something), and said she was "easily hypnotized." I thought here, "Why did I never bother to learn hyper emperia?" Anyway, in the limo was the entire band, and four Playmates, one of them a nasty girl with huge tits and a gun in her purse. Another Playmate (with a hot little body but an okay face) was drunk and all over the singer, giving him a lap dance and giving head to his beer bottle. All I could think was, "Why didn't I bring my camera?" At the club, we joined the table of a singer in a pretty well known band. It was crazy: women were THROWING themselves at this singer. And he's not even good looking or charismatic or even THAT popular. But he went home with three women. (Question: What do THOSE women want from him? And is there a way that WE can provide that value WITHOUT being famous?) I alternated my attention between the redhead and the bottle-sucking Playmate. It was great to have them feel like they have to compete for my attention. The Playmate kept playing with my hair and putting her hand on my chest, and I kept telling her, "Hey, that'll be $30...No touching for customers, or I'll have to throw you out..." etc. The redhead disappeared and the Playmate started sobering up, so I built rapport with the Playmate, and talked a lot about spirituality. I did Mystery's finger-closing script to test our connection, and she loved it. The redhead returned and said she didn't feel well and was leaving. I told her I'd walk her out. We walked up to a cab, and I spun her around and we started making out passionately. I gave her the El Kabillo IOI test (where you press your hard on against her leg and see if she lets it stay there or moves away, LOL). I got the IOI, LOL x 2. Here was a logistical problem: my coat was in the club, but I wanted to hop in the cab with her. I mentioned running back to get it, but she said, "Let's save something for tomorrow." Again, I KNOW she wanted it. But taking the logical leap to her CONSENTING for me to go home with her was too much. What should I have done here? (Anyway, she wants to see me tomorrow too.) Okay, back in the club, a couple cute girls approach the pop star. I come in and start flirting with them, and putting my scarf on them. No routines, just cocky/funny and teasing. It's interesting, because one of them is taking off my scarf like a striptease, and I tell her that she's doing it lamely. So she rises to the challenge and does it sexy. It is SO awesome to tell girls they're bad kissers, not doing something sexy, or give bad hugs. Because they will INSTANTLY do it again, and do it as sexy as they can. I MUST challenge women on their lack of sexiness more. One of the girls, a small Asian, asks me if I'm gay. I say, "no," but then I remember Craig's line and say, "Yes, I am. I've never kissed a girl before." She laughs, and a stripper nearby who knows the Playmates actually thinks I'm serious and offers to kiss me. I decline (she wasn't that hot in the flesh, and it seemed too deceptive). Anyway, the Asian girl and I flirt a little more, and then a little tonguedown goodbye. I didn't #close these girls, but I will see them again because it turns out we have mutual friends. Okay, finally, this leaves me and the bottle-sucking Playmate. She says she just moved here and is living in a hotel in Hollywood. I tell her I'll give her a ride home. She is pretty sober now and there's no kino or outrageous sexual behavior. On the ride home, we massage each other's hands and talk about spirituality. I invite her to come to the beach with me, but she's too tired. (See, here is where my game falls apart: these invitations sound TOO much like I want sex.) We pull up in front of her fleabag hotel and make out. Again, she wants to see me tomorrow, but I can tell that I haven't really fired her sexual buttons in quite the same way as the other girls I made out with today. Also, she's a bit of a weirdo. So, with three of these closes, I did not have an effective routine to go somewhere to have sex. This means one of two things, IMHO. Either the women NEED time (but here there's a risk of flaking later or not being in the same mood). Or, more likely, I am doing this wrong. I am skipping steps. Or, perhaps the problem is that when I go out, the KISS is my goal. So I'm strategizing and angling for a make-out session, which I get. However, I am not, from the very start of the sarge , working with the intent of taking her home. The problem may be that I am thinking forward (get a #, get a *, take her home) instead of backwards (try to take her home; if that seems unlikely, try for a *; if that doesn't work, get her #).
UPDATE: The following day, the Personals girl came over at 10:30 p.m. We drank wine, put on wigs and ran around on the beach, and then she came upstairs and attacked me. Literally rode me till she orgasmed, kept telling me how sexy I was, and then went home immediately after. It's interesting: all she wanted the whole time was a FB to help her get off, but still had to "get to know me" and screen me about my relationships first. Do you think she wanted to use me for sex, but first wanted to make sure I wasn't using her for sex? Anyway, in the morning, I decided to play into her frame and sent her an email "I feel so used .... and I love it." Then I signed it: "Your Boy Toy, Style." She called me back ten minutes later and invited m
e to come over for a quickie on my way home tonight. So I have a new FB .
UPDATE #2: However, I was not able to stop by her house because I went out with the redhead from the above field report tonight. It was really interesting. Like the personals girl, she had already decided that she wanted me before I even saw her the second time. So all I had to do was just be funny and interesting, and be hot and cold with kino . (Thanks to what I've learned, I don't have to worry anymore about TRYING to get some when I KNOW I'm already in.) We went to a club, and ended up making out in a corner. Then we got in my car, and she wanted to go to another club. The only part where there was any possible sticking point was here. So to get to her house, I said, "Well, that depends. I'm sort of hungry. What do you have to eat?" And she said, "Cereal. I can make eggs. And salad." So I said, "Cereal works." And that was that. Went back to her house, drank, ate. I decided to give her Riker's three rules while we were talking on her couch. And you should have seen her face: she was listening SO intently, because she was worried that SHE wasn't going to get some. LOL. Anyway, no LMR. It's interesting because if you just look at her face up close, she's a 7. But if you add in the tattoos, the super- peacocky clothes, the taut body, and the bright red hair in a Bettie Page cut, she becomes a 9. And, it turns out, she's a burlesque dancer, doing old-school stripteases. Just like the Personals girl, she kept saying (before we were in bed) how sensual I was and how she was impressed by my ass, and what a tight body I had (thanks to dkonstrukt again here). I have NEVER had a girl compliment my ass in my life! It is so exciting to truly feel like the prize, and have her keep reminding you. This is SO new to me.
Finally, I got feedback afterwards. Here's what worked:
1. She saw me talking to someone she knew, so thus I was "okay." ( social proof )
2. The instant cold-reading was what really hooked her. That's when she knew she
wanted to kiss me etc., when I told her so much about herself right away.
3. I forgot the rest. Finally, both her and the Personals girl say that they WANTED me and were wet on DAY ONE. So, I wonder, did they NEED time or could they have still been closed on day one if I played even more solid game? (I sound like a runner now, trying to shave one second off his 100-yard dash.)
So now I have two sexy new FBs --just because I decided to go out one night.
Zan: Fuck, Style, that was a great report! Good for you on the looks mindset change.
Notice I said mindset change - not looks change. I don't really think you've changed your looks all that much. But I do think you have changed your mindset about it. In other words, you are now good looking because you feel you are more good looking.
Sure you've started to shave your head more and done a few other cosmetic changes, but that is not where your change to a good looking guy is coming from. It is coming from your internal state. If you believe with all your heart that you look damn fine today, it automatically becomes true to others. You physically do become better looking to other people. You've done this internal change very well. And now to others, you are a little hottie.
I can comment on this because I have always been a "pretty boy", and I did modeling and shit. But that's not why I get laid like a rock star. Far from it. In fact, I can't tell you how many guys I have known who women think are extremely hot, but never get any play because they have no personality. I get laid because I can talk damn well. And I project an aura of confidence and genuine love of the ladies. Like Kooper, I simply adore women. All of that shows and is very attractive to women. In my mind, it has nothing to do with my looks.
In fact I always joke with my buddies about my "retirement plan". Basically, my plan is this: No matter how fat or toothless or wrinkly or stinky I become, I will always be able to seduce women because I know how to say things that evoke massive response from them. So assuming the preceding sentence is true, I'm going to spend all my money living the high life, and then when I am old and need someone to change my diaper, I will seduce some rich, 55 year old hottie to take care of me.
That is my only-half-joking retirement plan.
Guys, take note. There is nothing that Style has done to become better looking that you can't do too. Get off your waffle ass, get to the gym, maintain your hair (or lack thereof) and nails and breath as best you can. Buy some cool clothes (shoes are more important than you will ever know). Do all of that, feel good, eat right, don't hurt the feelings of our little HBs too much, and you will be a 9 like Style.
I am reminded of a phrase that I always whisper in a girl's ear when I am making love to her:
"Her beauty was not made of shapes and forms, but shined from within like the stars..."
Zan (reposted from Mystery's Lounge with permission of the author): My success rate is very high with waitresses (as opposed to bartenders, who don't have to linger). I love waitress scenarios. A waitress is a captive audience. She has to be nice, or pretend to be. No bitch shield in sight. I go totally cocky/funny on waitresses. Here is Zan's Waitress Takedown Technique (patent pending): [] Note: This style might not work for you, but it certainly does for me. In fact, I do a variation of this technique no matter who I am with. In other words, if I am having coffee at a restaurant with some hottie I just met, I do this waitress technique anyway. Very powerful - puts them both into competition mode whether they are interested in you or not. First of all, usually when a group of guys are confronted with a new and devastatingly pretty waitress, they stare at her ass when she walks by, then they comment among themselves about her, etc. But then when she comes up to their table, they become down right courteous and nice and try to act like they are not interested in her. So they casually order their drinks without really looking directly at her. And then they revert back to lech mode and rabidly stare at her ass again as she walks away. Instead, I go very c/f immediately. When I see her coming towards our table out of the corner of my eye, I immediately engage a buddy across the table in seemingly deep conversation - doesn't matter what. The goal is to look preoccupied and pretend you don't notice her. As well, my body is facing well into the table away from her. So she comes up and asks us what we would like to drink. I still ignore her for a few seconds or so. Then I glance in her direction, and pretend that I am just now seeing her for the first time. In other words, I hadn't noticed her until this very moment. Then immediately I show great interest in her - like a new discovery. A quick glance at her body, just enough for her to notice, then I turn my entire body in my chair around to face her. And a big smile and wink:
s a cocky / funny frame. And to act like I am just kidding. I don't really care about her number. So far, I have done two things here. I have escalated her comfort level with me to that of an established friend. Her and I now have a rapport, in a manner of speaking. The next time I see her, I can walk up to her, put my arm around her and continue with my usual "You would make a good girlfriend for me" talk. And I did everything in a "just kidding" manner. Did I really want her number? Or was I was just fooling around? Was I hitting on her or not? She has no idea. So the next night we go there again:
Doc (reposted from Mystery's Lounge with permission of the author, and the comments below are also reposted with their authors' permission): On the insistence of some of the guys, I've decided to write up what I've found out about managing a harem. If we put our collective brains together, maybe we can create a harem manual with ways around common obstacles . I like to keep a harem of MLTRs because I am not big on ONS . They usually leave me feeling empty (sounds like chick talk). I enjoy the intimacy of getting to know and connect with one person deeply. But I can't be satisfied either sexually or intellectually, so I like to have multiple deep relationships. I usually schedule them in on successive nights during the week, keeping most weekends free to recruit new members. The first night we set for a date usually ends up being her night for a couple of months and she becomes a weekly regular. If they start to get too possessive, I cut down on the frequency. For a period of about 7 months last year, I had a total of 9 regulars (5 in town, and 4 out of town). some stuck around as long as 1 year. They all know that I see other women, and although they are NOT cool with it, they all stick around! Why???? Because each of them is hoping that they'll be THE ONE.... After about 6-12 months in my harem, the girls started revolting and my harem fell apart after the Christmas holidays for a couple of reasons:
1. Principle 1: Girls are territorial - they know, but want to pretend like they don't know: Some girls started leaving stuff at my place (presumably they forgot but more likely they were marking out their turf) and when other girls would find the stuff (rings, necklace, panties... etc...) they would flip out and leave the harem.
2. Principle 2: Important holidays will kill your harem: It's almost impossible to maintain a harem through important holidays (Xmas, New Years, Valentine's day, etc.) They all wanted to spend Christmas and New Year's with me, but I couldn't be with all of them, so I lost some there because they wanted to feel they could have someone to share those intimate times with.
3. Principle 3: There is a built in time-limit to how long someone will stay in a harem: Some had made a New Year's resolution to themselves that if we weren't exclusive by the New Year, they would move on and find someone they could "build a future with"..
4. Principle 4: There has to be the potential of an EXCLUSIVE LTR : They want to foster the intimacy and closeness that comes from dreaming about future plans together. If they don't have this possibility they don't stick around. They all want to think they can convince you to change your mind, change your playboy ways, tame you, and that they are THE ONE for you. So now I'm in the process of rebuilding a new harem but starting with a different frame to hopefully avoid the inevitable revolt in the harem.
Setting the Frame:
1. I tell them up front that I'm very busy and don't have time for a girlfriend. They understand this part.
2. I also let them know that I travel a lot and see other women when I do. So far, mixed results.
3. I tell them that I have a very active social life and go out a lot - sometimes with other women. They understand this part but are not cool with it.
4. I tell them that I'm very selective about who I'm with so it takes me a along time to know if I want to be with this person or not because the person has to qualify herself to me. While I'm figuring out if I want to be with her, I won't be exclusive. They understand this part but there is a time limit to how long this stays valid (about 1 month).
5. I tell them that I really am looking for THE ONE (dangle a carrot in front of their noses), but I won't find her sitting around at home - you have to dig through a lot of dirt to find a diamond. **This sets the possibility of LTR while simultaneously opening the door for multiple relationships. They get this part.
6. ***This is key*** "What would you do in my situation?.....I am looking for THE ONE, but I've been sooooooo disappointed in the past with the quality of women out there, that I am starting to believe that I'll never find her, so since I won't lower my standards on what THE ONE has to be... " I ask her what she would do in my situation... They always give the answer: have multiple superficial relationships. They REALLY seem to get this. I set this frame up slowly over time, introduce one Framing concept at a time. Comments and input on how we can make this more powerful and convincing. I think there is something natural about harems, because there are more women than men on the planet. We just need to undo some social programming to get them to accept this.
stRIPPEd: I haven't had as much experience as you guys have, but I think I have some improvements on your rules, stuff that is tested and really works. I hope this makes sense to you....
The important differences:
1. Territorial nonsense that interferes with my lifestyle is a violation of trust and understanding. Reframe: you've opened up to her by letting her into your life, she must accept and respect who you are and what is important to you.
2. Holidays. I don't believe in them. Or, they are my own personal holidays. Never go out on New Year or Valentine's Day with a GF. These are prime sarging days. Ditto for long vacations. I do take shorter vacations and long weekends with MLTRs , but these are big rewards for exceptional behavior.
3. There is no time limit. I have had one MLTR for years, the second one for 11 months. It's ultimately your choice.
4. No exclusivity. I don't believe in it. Exclusivity is not a core value. Understanding, love, acceptance -- these are core values, and as long as you satisfy her core values, she will stay!
5. I have been very honest, and these chicks have been surprisingly calm and cool with it.
6. Doc's "I'm looking for the one and can't find her" is a negative belief that gives the impression that something is wrong. Reframe: "There is no such thing as the one, but there are many soul friends in life, and you are probably one of them...." In other words, it's as intense a relationship as she can ever imagine having -- so good, in fact, that she doesn't need exclusivity. The following are my observations, the golden rules of MLTR . I've broken this down into what I believe, and what I tell her.
Rule 1 What I believe: Men are naturally designed to have harems and women subconsciously predisposed to accepting them, although they have been culturally programmed to think otherwise. What I tell her: I'm not into traditional relationships. It is important to learn to know, understand and accept one another for who they truly are deep, deep inside.
Rule 2 What I believe: Women are by instinct highly attracted to players , a fact that often creates a delicious conflict inside her and makes the relationship exciting. Basically whatever you do, you just meet her core values and she stays with you. It's that simple. What I tell her: Outside experiences enrich and enhance the relationship. Under no circumstances does seeing other women mean anything is wrong between you and her. In fact, it's all about experiencing love, adventure and excitement together.
Which leads to Rule 3 What I believe: MLTRs can be pre-selected or reprogrammed for lesbianism so they fit into your plan. You set the rules for her to allow her to become a partner or co- player in your game, introducing you to new women, threesomes, etc. if she so desires. What I tell her: Paraphrase Rick H's bisexual woman patterns.
Rule 4 What I believe: You can give all your MLTRs what they truly want -- even if they say they want something else, you can satisfy her like no one else can. What I tell her: When we are free to truly understand and accept one another, I can satisfy you like no one else can.
Rio: I understand stRIPPed's point, but saying "There are many soul friends in my life" etc. is going to throw out a lot of women who want a relationship with you... and that includes the harem sense as well. The reason why they are in the harem is that they are seduced by their own fantasy of getting you all to themselves. By saying what you suggest, you destroy the illusion. Otherwise, the only women who will accept this are women looking for the ONS . I agree though, "I'm looking for the one" is generally a bad thing to say. I much rather like to hint that there is a perfect woman out there, and that each of them can become that woman if they do x and y and z to prove themselves to me. I constantly strive to push the envelope of what I can get women to do to improve themselves in my own eyes. So in that sense, they see me as somebody worthy of telling them that they are not good enough, and may never be. And DOCs rules are spot on too. About the stuff left at your apartment.... you should start a regime of deporting "illegal customs" to the rubbish bin and then pretending that they never were there in the first place. "Where's my panties?" "What panties?" They soon get the message.
stRIPPed: Rio, I follow your excellent thinking, but you're a little off the mark still: You are wrongly ASSUMING that the only reason a girl gets into a relationship is because she thinks you are the one for her. They may have been socialized into believing that nonsense, but it's not true. The reason a girl (or any human for that matter) stays in a relationship is because their partner satisfies their core values. And a core value is not "monogamy"! A core value is something like honesty, love, acceptance, understanding, sensitivity, etc.
The reason they are in the harem is because they are seduced by the fantasy that they have a deep one-on-one connection with a true player ! Reread that line.
Rio, it's great to use your screening frame and telling her how to improve herself. I do it all the time, but it's based on my own map of the world and my own rules, while you are still following society's b.s. about monogamy and finding the one. There is no such thing as the one, just the one you choose if you buy into the idea.
Rio: Perhaps that's just an anomaly of how we play the game.... I don't disagree with your idea on core values though. That is true. I want to play with the idea of relationships. You don't. That could be because of our different geographical location and types of women we deal with.... choice of lifestyle. Etc. Nobody is right on this point I feel. It's a matter of taste. Personally, I like to buy into the relationship thing because women never see you coming as a player , and I like that part of it. I like giving women more than enough rope to hang themselves with their own relationShit - and I don't have to manipulate them to do it, because they seduce themselves with the idea. It makes it easier for me seduction wise, because they try to seduce me then. I like to parade myself as the decent guy, and then enjoy the social proof and sex that comes with it. I like being the guy that women tell their AFCs about, as in: "He was such a nice guy when I met him, but then we had sex and he turned into an asshole." Whereas, I was being nice to them all along - but I was just seeing other women too! For me, I'm all for the relationships thing (assuming here, that relationship means a lot of sex and that's it.). Personally, I like being in love with women as well as fucking them too - so it helps me from that point of view. Now, I fully understand that it isn't everybody's deal - which is OK. Some guys would rather stay the hell away from all that nonsense, and I don't blame them. But, I found myself enjoying the sex more doing it like this, and it felt less like a speedy-seduction and more like real seduction. Before, when I took the attitude of "I want sex with no real relationship" I occasionally got laid, but the chicks were only ONS . Then I got a bad rap and lost social proof with most other women. Plus, when I did get laid, it was just sex with no mental game at all - which quickly got boring for me. There was no sexual state doing it robotically like that. PLUS, I now usually attract women who will actively try to fuck me - falsely thinking that I'll be an AFC -like slave hooked on them straight after sex. Thing is, I surprise them later when that doesn't happen. .... then we get to the part about the deep one-on-one connection with the true player , that you were mentioning! At least, that's my way of doing things. Your way may differ. I deal with Japanese women too.
stRIPPed: Rio, I doubt the culture makes the difference here. Understand that I have serious relationships with my women -- and I'm honest with them. There is no false expectation on their part, and no disappointment. As a result I have very long term MLTRs and good friendships with my ex- MLTRs . The few chicks that I had trouble with during and after the relationship were the ones with whom I played your kind of game. I don't see any advantage to the conflict you've created -- though I can see how it would work.
Rio: You're thinking that I don't have serious relationships either? I can see why you would think that. I'm guessing that you are assuming that I am bullshitting the women I get with grandeur dreams of having me exclusively from that point on - and then I become a jerk and let them down afterwards. This is not the case.... more importantly, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE! How can I possibly be honest with them about the future? Anything can (and usually does) happen! I DON'T know the future! To promise them something, or lead them down that rose- petal path, AND accurately predict the future at the same time is an impossibility - and they know it as much as I do, but they want it anyway. I WANT women in my life for relationships, but only WHEN I want them! Who knows what tomorrow will bring?(Sounds romantic doesn't it?) I let women fill in the blanks to that question..... that requires no manipulation, deception, or trickery on my part. They do the seduction all by themselves. They are better at it than me. Perhaps we are talking about the same thing in different ways, and I'm just seeing it through rose-colored glasses...... Oh yeah, you have to screen for stalkers too. Getting women is easy. It's getting rid of them that's hard. I like the attention though. Getting rid of them is not too hard really, because as soon as they slip up (get too clingy, do something I don't like), their status plummets in the rankings. So in that way, they technically eject themselves without me needing to do anything. Women are quite happy to send themselves going on the whole merry-go-round. No intervention from me, other than seducing them with the basic idea.
stRIPPed: Didn't think you didn't have serious relationships. In fact, Rio, you clearly said you did. I was also responding in part to the line in which you said, "I like being the guy that women tell their AFCs about, as in: "He was such a nice guy when I met him, but then we had sex and he turned into an asshole." I can't imagine your liking that. That's my nightmare. Sounds like you get your share of stalkers and drama queens.
Rio: I try to screen this out beforehand.... but this is the problem is that you only really find this trait about the chick out until AFTER you've done the deal. You get the chick to seduce you and she will LIE to you, to tell you the things that she thinks you want to hear - including that she doesn't mind you seeing other women, when really it bothers her. This happens in screening nearly 100% of the time. It's only until later, she fesses up and admits that what she wanted all along was a relationship with you as a slave of sorts - and then you become the asshole. There's no escaping it (for the most part). So you screen her and it, out. Then it's on to the next relationship for you. In a way it's funny, because I don't have to do anything bad to warrant the wrath. I am a gentleman, all the time! I want the relationship (lots of sex on a regular basis). I find it particularly amusing because if she really wanted to keep me, she shouldn't piss me off with all her bullshit about wanting a relationship (which already exists!).... BUT, they rarely ever seem to understand that. When you get really good at this, you DO increase the odds of having stalkers - usually from chicks who wouldn't normally be stalkers in the first place. Perhaps we should call them groupies rather than stalkers..... (!) The same hot chick that gave me some of the ideas was pushing me towards the stalker mentality too - until I snapped myself out of it. To date, no other chick has had the same effect on me. I guess that's what happens when someone is that seductive.
The reason I do things the way I do now, is because of a particular woman who I fondly remember who does things exactly the way I do now. She was a babe, a complete fantasy woman. She dressed well, spoke nicely, was a lot of fun, open to sex....... did everything you'd expect for a dream woman. She was hot, but acted like she didn't know it. She never had her head in the clouds at all. We screwed, and then she tried turning the tables on me to see if I'd become her slave. I spotted her work in process, avoided a nasty fallout - and learnt from it. Now, I learnt to be the gentleman, the nice-guy, the perfect companion (which, I might add, is all I wanted to be in the first place) - and women love it. They think I am THAT good! I don't argue with them, I just tell them exactly what they want to hear - and I get laid, and when they start to piss me off..... I go, and get another, because I know I have the VALUE they want.
Rio: Universal Guide to Getting Laid in Japan www.penismightier.com/fenomas/laidguide.html Some humor for you all.... remembering that all humour has a small percentage of truth in it.
Maximillian Hell: >DB: I have a recurring problem with guys that try to interfere with me just speaking with women. What will happen is that some guy sometimes will subtly cut in front of me with their back facing me, trying to block me from speaking to the target . Once an HB 's brother did this to me and last night some guy who came in with a girl (maybe they were dating} "gave me the back". I noticed that when other guys spoke with her that this dude did not resort to this behavior.
Maximillian Hell: That really sucks. I feel mad for you and want to kick some ass. I really don't have too much experience on this matter, but perhaps you need to somehow physically position yourself vis-a-vis the target to prevent this--don't give the guy any room to wedge in. You may somehow be giving off some sort of beta vibe. Check your posture, gestures, and speech. They may see you as an outsider somehow. Do you have a look that is different from theirs? You may simply be a threat to them because you are more articulate and clearly have more education than they do. Also, these other guys you see with the HBs may simply be old friends so the CBs don't see them as threats.
[snip] > I thought about just politely calling guys on their behavior, but I don't know. I read somewhere on ASF that the standard response to a CB is "Dude, I am having a conversation! Do you mind?" or something like that. I have often found that good eye contact in confrontations can make people cave quickly. Maximillian Hell: The few times it has happened to me I think it was because the guy already had a lot of rapport with the HB . E.g., he was an old friend who could simply drag her off to the dance floor, whereas I had just met her.
Researchers: Marriage doesn't make you happy: www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/03/17/marriage.poll.reut/index.html
The Point System
The most important part of dating for men is maintaining a good attitude, and a correct attitude. It's one thing to not be bitter when you face rejection and your fears with women, but it's another to make sure that you're keeping up your posture. In short, your posture is your overall status level with a woman. Your posture can range from total supplicating wimp on the left end of the scale, and hardcore self-interested jerk on the far right. You are shooting for something a bit over to the right of center when you first start dating a gal, and you ease off until you are at a good equilibrium somewhere near the middle. One of the most effective tactics for letting a woman know that you are self- confident is by showing her that you are not the kind of guy who takes whatever is handed to him. You have standards, and she has to live up to them. The tactic I'm about to teach you is exceptionally effective, as it communicates your posture right away. (This technique is also an excellent variation of the " neg -hit" or negative hit technique where you let a woman know she isn't getting any breaks for being attractive.)
The Point System goes a little like this: John is at a bar with Mary, who he just started talking to. He's been talking to her for a few minutes, and there seems to be a good vibe. Here's their interaction:
I, personally, will walk away from women who act indignant when I let them know that I'm not a supplicating wimp. It's obvious at that point that she'll probably be high-maintenance from the start, and you can only expect that she'll have a death grip on the steering wheel of any dating relationship. She's inflexible, and probably a control freak with an over-inflated opinion of herself.
Used judiciously, the Point System will help you weed out the women with poor attitudes, as well as improve your posture in the eyes of the ones with good attitudes. Remember, no woman ever wants what comes easily, and if she expects you to bow to her superiority, you want nothing to do with her.
IN10SE (reposted from Mystery's Lounge with permission of the author): IN10SE's "Ideal" relationship values I post this here because I had to come up with a good response on the fly when a few of the gals I have been out with lately have asked me what I'M looking for in a "relationship". I normally don't like to bring up the "R" word, but when a gal brings it up, you have to have a good reply... one that will show them that you are intelligent, that you have it together, that you are sophisticated, and that there is more to you than meets the eye.
Now the context of using this is that I have only used it with gals in a casual environment, (a bookstore, coffeeshops, restaurant). Haven't tried it in clubs nor do I think it would work in a club setting. This is for when you are alone, having one of those one on one, deep rapport conversations, as a prelude to (a few steps before) the full close. Here was my response... and everytime I've used it so far, it has gotten deep levels of rapport (it became about them seducing ME) as well as broken down any resistance...
As far as anchoring, when I've done this, I used sugar packets once, and I used my fingers (pointing to them) the other times.
(You may want to read the theme itself before reading about the anchoring part next so that it will make more sense)
Actually using my fingers as an anchor was kind of a subtle sexual signal, because I would put my 3 right hand fingers up (one finger for each value, as if counting), and point to them with my left index finger and then when I would do each of the "2 values without the 1", I would form a "ring" with my thumb and index finger of my left hand that would encircle the two fingers of the other hand... and as I talked I subtly slid my encircling hand up and down over my fingers. (first each of the 2 together and then the 3 all together at the end)
I actually did this without thinking about it consciously at first, then I wondered why the chick I was talking to got all flushed and started breathing heavy as I was moving my left hand index/thumb "ring" up and down the "shafts" of the fingers of my right hand. Anyway, here it is...
"I have a new theory about all relationships and what makes up the ideal one.
First of all you need Passion. This is where you have a physical chemistry with this person, where you feel drawn to this person that you're with, you may even feel a warm feeling right here in your stomach and maybe it spreads all over your body when your with this person. where you can lose track of time and give yourself completely to this experience.
Next you need Intimacy. This is where you feel an emotional connection with this person, like you've known them before, and like you were always meant to know this person. like this was meant to be and where you feel completely comfortable and close. and you may feel it right here in your heart.
Then you need Commitment. Philosophers have called this a sense of "duty". where you feel secure, knowing that this is someone that is here for you, that we both choose to be together. and this is someone that you can see yourself with now and in the future.
Now, all relationships are based on varying degrees of each one of these elements.
For example if you have just passion, but no intimacy or commitment, then that would be like just physical infatuation. Like a one night stand or something. nothing more, nothing less.
If you have just intimacy, but no passion or commitment, then that would be just friendship. And we all have those.
If you have just commitment, but no passion or intimacy, then that would be an empty relationship. Like a lot of married people out there. so sad.
Then you can have passion and intimacy, but no commitment. This is like a "Romantic affair". and maybe the knowledge that it is something that's now or never. or that you have no guarantees about, makes the passion and intimacy even more intense.
And you can have passion and commitment, but no intimacy. That is like people who stay together because they really like the sex.
And you can have intimacy and commitment but no passion. That would be like grandma and grandpa who are together for companionship, but cant remember the last time they did it.
And of course the ideal, as with all things. is about balance, where you can have just the right amount of passion, just the right amount of intimacy, and just the right amount of commitment. well. now that I think about it, an extra little bit more passion would be nice. what do you think?"
When I discuss "relationship type" themes, it is because THEY have brought it up. And I take it as a definite IOI. And so the context is never about "advice" or about "therapy" but it has to remain the frame that YOU are the one with all the insights... you are the one that is right... and of course YOU have all the answers...
And THEN you must quickly interject "sexual" themes so that you don't get stuck talking about "relationships". You have to also play it up with the kino , eye contact, and sexual themes so she gets turned on and so that she knows that you aren't her "Therapist"...
Jerry: >aa aa: > Mark B.: But I find that being direct or indirect really does not matter as long as you are able to either keep it light and deal with her shit tests. Telling a woman she is stunning is only a small part of the total interaction and I find really irrelevant to success or failure. It's the nature of your follow up conversation and style that tends to determine one's success.
A comment on Street PU : A Subway pickup (repost from the London Seduction Society): Last Friday night on my way to meet the girl I fclosed that night, I saw a gorgeous girl in the Tube. She got in two stops before I had to get out, so I waited one stop contemplating what I would tell her, then I sat down next to her and said: "Excuse me, I just wanted to tell you that you are drop dead gorgeous, so I was wondering whether you have anything else going for you than JUST THAT!" Worked wonders. Her reply: "Hell yeah!". She got off at Picadilly Circus with me, so I said "So what is then that you have going for you?" and she replied "Well, I cant tell you everything now - you would have to find out."
Total amount of sarging time: 3 Minutes.
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