A long dissertation about juice machines, dead bananas, and the pros and cons of drying carrots
Cliff's Comment: The SS
seminar and spending some time with Dave Riker who is active in the SS "Lair" in San Diego has inspired me to finally work toget a similar SS / PUA Lair set up here in Montreal with regular meetings. Coincidentally, Marco who is very active in the NYC Lair (probably the biggest one out there with 180 members) emailed me and I asked him for some advice about setting up and running one. Dave gave me some good ideas and the benefit of their experience in making the meetings worthwhile and if you are in the Montreal area (or nearby and willing to make the trip), contact me about being on the Montreal email list. If you live elsewhere, you may get some good ideas about setting up a Lair in your city (if you send me something to post here looking for people in your area, I will run it here for you).
Marco (Leader of the NYC Pimps): Marco's General Advice on Lairs and his subtle Blurb at the end Rules are numero uno. My Lair has never been without them from day one, and I've always shown congruity by enforcing them whenever I can. Members will respect you more as a leader, therefore they will listen to you more. Our rules are tough but reasonable (I know some Lairs that are a lot harsher than mine) and I try to install a propulsion system of reward and punishment. - punishment for flaking on meetings, for posting crap (yes, we define crap in my group), non-payment for the rental of room, or violating ground rules during a meeting or sarging session, etc. The rewards are an ongoing process of positive verbal support and feedback, bringing in guest speakers, getting free passes around the city, and continuing the growth of the group so that everyone has more resources to tap into. I also use education, or rather, help the guys appreciate what I do by explaining what I do and how I do it. That way, they value my services more. But I make sure I always do it in from a positive place or a place of power... never whiney. I've had guys like Dr. Stevil who just went to LA, lead my Lair meeting in my place and it was one of the more successful meetings, from what I hear. Just goes to show how important a role rules can play in creating a successful meeting. I find meetings run best on Sunday afternoons or Thursday evenings. We post a word document listing the names, emails and phone numbers of every guy that shows up at a meeting, so they don't have to wait till the next meeting to sarge with a wing . They can call on an SS bro from the list. The big reason sarging sessions don't work after a meeting or roundtable is usually because the average meeting will run a couple hours and most want to go eat. Dinner is the kiss of death on any momentum or motivation you once had for sarging ...at least for a group, it is. So I agree it's best to separate those unless you are a total nazi about keeping a strict organization after the roundtable. Otherwise, don't bother with a group of about 10 guys. Generally, these guys are here to have fun, so it's a waste of time trying to motivate them with JUST rules. Lead by being fun, having fun and planning fun and although you will never get everyone on board, you can eventually get the majority and that's what is most important. You either train them to respond or not respond and EVERY communication you make with the members is a decision...for or against.
There are so many little details I've picked up over the last 1.5 years leading this group, so if you need more, just ask me.
For now, I created a new sub-group called the NYC Guerrilla Strike Force, which is centered around sarge -ONLY events. As I said b4, this is the next level in Lairs and we had our first sarge event this last Saturday, with 9 hard core PUA 's joining me and the new leader of the subgroup, Mike Kelly. I had a blast, and picked up 4 hot Hunnies. We are gonna post some pics and reports later this week. The NEXT Guerrilla Strike Force sarge event is this Sunday. There is a Filipino Convention in town somewhere in Manhattan and Mike has the 411 on it. If anyone wants to come check us out, you better be ready to keep up with us and PARTICIPATE or at least be willing to do the monkey-see, monkey-do routine and learn from us, as a beginner. This group is a lot more organized and the cost to show us you are serious is $4, no exceptions.
Contact Mike Kelly for more details, a yahoo map and the official invitation: mk2kaway@lycos.com
We will also be broadcasting again on the SS
list, ASF and future Cliff's List Newsletters... it's the next up and coming group to make waves out there. ; ) To subscribe to the largest lair in the world (ONLY if you are in New York City, guys): SUBSCRIBE-NYCTSF@YAHOOGROUPS.COM
General Lair Rules are as follows: At every roundtable, one member will be assigned role of moderator. At anytime, should the moderator raise his hand, all members are required to stop speaking - no exceptions! It is important that everyone have their opportunity to speak and that is why we place strong emphasis on moderating the way time is being used by the group. Everyone gets 6 minutes to present a case question, no more. Someone will be assigned as timekeeper. The first sentence must summarize the situation or scenario, followed by a one-sentence question. If you can't adhere to those guidelines, you don't deserve the time and resources of the members at the meeting. We have a very large group, representing an enormous amount of resources at your disposal. If you show respect for their time, they will be more inclined to return the favor. If you are looking for structure, it goes something like this: * announcements * collection of payment for room reservation * attendance taken (paper passed around) * review of roundtable guidelines (future paces meeting) * introduction of attendees present * ROUNDTABLE * final announcements (i.e.. future meetings)/requests/feedback
Cliff's Comment: Dave Riker's explanation of the way the San Diego Lair works was a little different. They meet every second Tuesday (it's usually impossible to pick a night that works for everyone, so he said just pick a night and the ones who value it will put priority there and make it most of the time) and they don't really permit "drop-ins." They are looking for serious participants and if you can't make most of the meetings (or at least have a very good excuse but a genuine strong interest), they won't keep you in the loop and will not keep you on the email list either. Meetings are held at someone's home and not at a coffee shop or bar as they have learned that if you are holding a meeting, hold a meeting. Combining this with going out does not work. Typically everyone kicks in something like $5 per meeting and they order in pizza or something similar. Meetings usually start out with field reports and there are homework assignments that must be done. It is important that members be helpful and not disruptive and they do kick out guys who aren't there and acting in the best interests of all. New members are screened and usually meet with two of the older members of the group to decide if they will be let in or not. Rules and order are very important, otherwise the meetings degenerate into scattered yakking that doesn't benefit everyone. I would appreciate hearing from those of you involved in a Lair or something similar to help with ideas for the Montreal one I'd like to see set up. And these comments will help those thinking of setting one up in their cities.
GameMaster (recounting of recent misadventures; this is edited from a series of emails) Well, I got a real problem now. Alley's back. Two years ago she quit the club right after all that shit happened with me and her, moved to Florida and went to med tech school, got her degree as an epidemiologist or some shit like that, kicked her bad habits cold, stopped smoking, swore off men, got her shit together and now here we go again. Cliff, how do you resist a beautiful woman that looks right at you and says "You're the one, you're my soul mate, and I want this to work"? Just something about that girl and she's never looked better. The good news is she lives 1 1/2 hours away. I was floored to be honest. And she didn't skip a beat when I told her I'd been "seeing" her best friend Felicia who she was in town to visit. And she was pretty cool when I told her I was going to visit my Florida GF for my birthday-that was fine. But she did light up when I told her she couldn't come over tonite cause my other Aries girlfriend from the club was coming down. "Can I meet her?" She knows I've just got a natural thing with Aries chicks cause I nailed everyone of em' that ever walked through the door at the Men's Club. Anyway, I need to make her squirm for a while but she's the 8th chick I've nailed in the last 2 months so which one of us is worse???? : ) We spent from 4PM to 4AM last nite and it was just the most natural thing. She was diagnosed with cancer right after we blew up and I think that really forced her to make some serious changes and I'm pretty impressed with what I see. Except for the part about when we went to the store to buy a bunch of Goddamn carrots to put in her juicer!!! Ever drank any fresh carrot juice? It's fucking terrible. Works for her but it took over an hour to prep, juice, strain, clean, etc. but I guess it must be good for you cause her cancer is in remission. I'm in trouble. Thanks for letting me vent.
Well Cliff, I told you this shit was going to catch up with me. I just got a tip from one of the girls.....OK, Shannon is due in at 6:00 and we had planned a little 1960's experiment tonite if you know what I mean and so I'm going ahead with the plan. However, Alley plans to drop in tonite to check out the competition. She's also coming back at 3AM with Felicia, and Raya who blew in last nite. The word I got was there was going to be a "showdown" after work tonite. Thank God for the network. So that's two married strippers, my alleged "soul mate", and my favorite 21 year old bi-sexual fuck buddy blowin' in for the Gunfight at the O'Fuck Corral about the time I'll be peaking tonite. Wish you were here Goddamnit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cliff, I am laughing my ass off over this shit. It was too good to last anyway but apparently I can't do anything to shake Alley, and Shannon could give a fuck less about all this, and I still have Heather who's off at some fucking Nascar deal this weekend and Nancy who thinks I'm out with friends for my birthday. I need a fucking social secretary. I'm going to have the tape recorder handy at 3...I'm actually looking forward to this.
Well last nite was pretty interesting. Not the fireworks I was prepared for but everything worked out I suppose. Shannon and I left for dinner at 7:00 and got back to the house and found a greeting card taped to the front door from Alley. Some pretty deep stuff, figured I had dodged that bullet. However, about 30 minutes later, as we're coming up for air I hear the doorbell ring..... Alley. No time to comb my hair! Anyway, she didn't wait for me to come to the door and just walked on in the house...poured herself a glass of wine and sat down in the kitchen to have a cigarette (I thought she had stopped but the stress of dealing with me : ) and was just as cool as hell when I walked in with Shannon trailing..."April, Shannon. Shannon, April" Long silence....it was sort of like that final scene in the Good the Bad, and the Ugly. Eyes, fingers, guns, twitching fingers, more eyes. Alley finally broke the silence "You look the part." Shannon,"What the fuck does that mean?" Alley....pause "I don't know what's going on here, but I want you to know that this is MY man, and I plan to keep it that way!" Shannon..."Whatever, I'm going to take a shower"...swish. OK, now it's me and Alley who thank God had only reappeared in my life 24 hours earlier with professions of love and commitment. Alley..."I suppose I deserved this?" I wasn't prepared for that.....part of her new construct I guess, lot's of changes. "It's gonna take me some time to work through my dance card, you were the last thing I expected to drop back into the scene." Alley...."That's cool, call me tomorrow, willya?" And she got up, gave me a kiss and left...then called three times from 11:30 & 2:00 am last nite. Must have been killin' her : )) Anyway, we went to a couple of clubs downtown where Shannon stole the show with a repetitive accidental reappearance of her 36D's that kept popping free from this tie-up-stretch-all-weather fuck suit she was wearing. This is a class town, I got to be more careful about the whores I bring down here, but we had a good time. Home at 2:30 relaxing on the couch when I hear a door slam right at 3:00. Now it's Felicia, but she was by herself, thank God. Apparently Raya decided that this was way more drama than she had signed up for and I must have forgotten to tell her Felicia was a regular in the rotation cause the message she brought was the very familiar "Tell him Fuck Off!" Anyway, so now Felicia's in the kitchen doing her thing and Shannon refuses to get off the couch "Shannon, come say hi to Felicia" "FUCK HER! Bring me a blanket." OK.Back in the kitchen. Felicia..."Is it OK for me to be here....I mean is this a sex thing or " 'Yeah honey, it's a sex thing. But nothing to worry about.' Felicia was very apologetic and I tried to put her at ease while she keeps asking if she should leave. "Fuck no, get a beer and hang for a while." So now I'm all alone with Felicia and talk turns to her best friend Alley. Her impression of the day before's events were that we had spent about an hour reminiscing and catching up....I guess Alley forgot to tell her the part about staying till 4:00AM and fucking my brains out cause when I broke the news to her it was like she had seen a ghost. She was always jealous of Alley cause she was always left out of our weird little triangle when we were all together. So now she's dealing with the reality of Alley being back in the picture, her time and attention cut short, or terminated....and I'm loving it cause Felicia's married, and with Alley in the position of "best friend" she can't know Felicia is fucking around on her husband cause she'll lose respect, etc. blah blah blah. It's this whole ordeal. It's a real psychodrama, good makings of a book. Anyway, Shannon finally made an appearance to mark her territory and generally make a lot of noise about nothing. There was this hilarious condescending exchange between the two of them that had me rolling of the floor. Shannon..."Where did you come from?" I'm not really sure how she meant that?? : ) Felicia "Work.... Men's Club....DUH. Where are YOU from?" '(City)....Dollhouse....DUH!!" Cliff, at this point I was laughing so hard I was about to have an apoplexy. Just hilarious, all the positioning and insults. Shannon finally excused herself to the couch and cranked the stereo again to drown out the conversation filtering from the kitchen. Felicia was cool and she just launched into this long dissertation about juice machines, dead bananas, and the pros and cons of drying carrots before they go in the juicer. It was like a Seinfeld routine, I just love that girl. Anyway, with Shannon crashed on the couch we settled in the den into our little "romance my married ass" routine and by 5 we were in bed together. I'd really like to know what she told hubby when she rolled up in the house at 6:30 this morning? Aftermath...who knows.
Well, unbelievably everything is cool with the girls except for Raya. OK, here's an example of how truly fucked up a stripper's mind is. I called her this morning to give her hell for not coming over Saturday nite with Felicia. She's mad at me cause I'm having an affair with a married woman. She says she can't respect me anymore. Oh BTW, did I tell you she was married as well? Fuckin' strippers! Everybody else is cool. Halelujah brother.
I think the real difference with what's going on now is that I am very comfortable with who I am and have sort of found some inner high ground to work from. Hell Cliff, I'm at least 10 pounds heavier than during stripperville days when I was trying SO hard. I can't leave the house anymore without meeting somebody in some sort of seemingly fated type way. It's crazy, just the zone. Can't explain it. And I've just been doing rapport and the general skill set things from SS . Using a lot of hypnosis over the phone which is just devastating. Alley has her first session scheduled for tonite. She never responded to the patterns and made mention of back when I was trying to "seduce me with all those canned speeches." Tough chick : )
I don't know how it all came together, either. All I can tell you is I'm brutally honest with these girls about what I do, I'm not always available cause I'm not always available and that keeps the intrigue meter pegged, I'm sensitive to but not always responsive to their needs, there's some emotional detachment they have to deal with cause I've always got one foot out the door, and where else are they gonna go for the languaging that blows the top of their head off? I'm having fun but I'm in a real dilemma now with this Alley thing coming back the way it did. Cliff you know there's an emotional bond there that is just hard to describe. She's just an awesome fucking woman.
Some new and some old free personal sites: (New Sites) 1)Many free personal ads here. You can post, search and reply directly to personal ads. You have to check frequently because it changes everyday and there is a small button to click on at the end of the page to see previous ads. pages.infinit.net/denlap/
2) All free here, too. Lots of ads to view here of Quebec people. This site is both French and English. www.amities.com/
3) This site is all free to post, respond and search. Lots of ads from all over the world. www.geocities.com/Paris/Pavilion/5568/
4) You can respond to ads here, but not directly. There are many ads to view here and again all free. rencontre.legratuit.com/
Below are old sites that have been previously posted. They are also all free: 5) This site has few Canadians, but has potential. It's free to post, search and respond www.4fairies.com/default.asp
6) Here you will need to know a little about searching, but it is all free to post, search and respond. You can respond direct to e-mail addresses and may see a few pictures. This site is all Quebec. dejavu.ca/
7) Here is a new one, all free to post, respond or search. www.fartelecom.com/singlesunion/
8) Try this one, appears to be free: quebec.pbull.com/
The next ones are not necessarily all free: 9) This site is FREE to join. You can respond, post and search ads for free here. www.2SinglePeople.com/
10) This site is free to join. You can respond, post and search ads for free here. There is some ads that have phone numbers and addresses. www.meetaperson.net/
11) This site is free to join. You can respond, post and search ads for free here. www.singlescanada.ca/
12) This site also all free. There are not many ads, but if everyone post here it would be a good way to meet someone. musicm.mcgill.ca/netads/personals.html
13) This one is a totally free site to post, search. Responding is free but not by direct e-mail. www.matchdoctor.com/default.asp
14) AOL Personals - Can't go wrong here. A totally free site to post, search and to respond to personal ads. Alot of ads with pictures. webcenter.love.aol.com/LoveMain/?partner=AOW
15) Cyber Dating. Free to post and you can post your picture, but will take 1 to 2 weeks for all to see. Some ads you can be responded to by direct e-mail. www.cyberdating.ca/
16) This next one is under construction. www.angelfire.com/pq/confidence/
17) Agence de Rencontre de Montreal is a totally free site to post, search and to respond to personal ads directly to the person's e-mail address. No registration required. www.rencontre.qc.ca/
18) ACAM Les Annonces Classes A Montreal is a totally free site to post, search and to respond to personal ads directly to the person's e-mail address. No registration required. cme.vif.com/rencontre.htm
19) Reseau Contact. This site you have to register. You can post your profile and search personal ads for free. www.reseaucontact.com/
20) Excite Classifieds Is a totally free site to post, search and to respond to personal ads. Alot of ads with pictures. personals.excite.com/
Iashabo: I am sure you've heard of people using pheromones to help them attract the opposite sex. What do you think about it? Have you ever tried it yourself?
Cliff's Comment: Sure, I have been a sucker like so many other guys! I have three little bottles of the stuff in my cabinet and I still sometimes use the unscented one before going out...
But it never worked that I can think of - I think all it does is make someone think it's working and just that affect on their attitude may help them. I think you are better off buying some really great cologne (try Dolce & Gabbana but most important is to make sure that whatever you buy smells good on you - a lot of these just don't work for some people and smell great on others) and I think that's about as powerful as it gets...
Romeman:
>Harold: Re: www.milfhunter.com Are you familiar with the above link-url? If not please have a look at it. Whence you have, tell me what your suspicions are!!! Now this guy prances around with a digicam in hand, picking up "mothers" on the street. Oddly, I don't see much of a rapport PUA technique (cos they seem game without being scored on)...so has this guy pre-prepped his targets (are they just playing to the lens cam?) or is this guy simply all balls pitching the fact for a video trade for money deal to his beauties?...and my God he ain't pitching at uglies either!!!!!!!!!
Romeman: First, consider the situation: How many 40-year-old babes do you think you, a complete stranger, could approach and convince to do a sex video with you that would be downloadable anywhere in the world? (At some point, the "artist" would have to sign a legal release, mind you, protecting the videomakers from legal hassles.) Given the enormous improbability of the situation in everyday life as I know it, I have to believe that the encounters are not casual but pre-arranged with already willing targets . At that point I ask myself: How difficult would it be to find women who are not recognizable personalities at a national level and who -- 20 years ago -- posed for a photo spread or worked as a stripper or "in some other way" worked in the sex industry and were thus not particularly inhibited about performing in public? This scenario seems most logical to me.
Michael: I'm curious what you've learned/heard about "The System" from Doc Love ( www.doclove.com/ )? It's a 200+ page book and 2 audios with what to say & what not to say, and supposedly teaches you how to get women to SEDUCE YOU. It's $99.00.
Cliff's Comment: I haven't seen it - anyone care to supply a review?
Paul The Pirate:
> DB: I had a recent situation that took me by surprise. I sarged a gal and got her cell number. I called this number and a guy answered. I asked for the woman and the guy said who is this and said he was the husband. I gave my .....
Paul The Pirate: My impression is - in both cases you describe, you were used as a leverage. Both girls do not care about you, they care about their husband or boyfriend, and they want to change their behavior - maybe get more attention (in the case of the husband), or get in a serious relationship (in the case of the volleyball player ). I believe we as seducers have to learn to recognize these games. You have many choices of a response . My favorite choices in cases like this are either to erase them from my memory, or ignore them - if I still recognize and meet them.
DB: Thankx for your reply on the "married woman". The more I experience this PU stuff, the more I find out what nonsense people will pull and how borefriends will try to control their women... I think you were right, and that one of her friends must have told the borefriend that she was with another guy (being me). I had a situation where I was talking with a gal and a friend of the borefriend posed as her borefriend, until the real bf came back. Men will help their buddies out in this situation like this as if you were a threat. Anyway I had two quick questions: 1. Do you have any examples/ideas on group openers?
2. If a women flirts with you, and you don't make a move soon enough, can this window be reopened again? Any special tactics, or is it good to say something why you didn't speak to her initially?
I was wondering in the late 70's and early 80's (prior to the Aids scare) I was told that going out to clubs didn't really require as much game this guy said he had many "triple double headers" meaning he bagged three different women three days in a row. My impression back in the disco age that picking up women was much easier and didn't require sophisticated game like you do today. True or just a wishful thinking about the good old days?
Ciz: The age and car questions Car question (from actual convo): hb : what kind of car do you have? ciz: a white one hb : no, silly, not what color, what type of car? ciz: one with four wheels hb : no! the brand! ciz: you want to know the brand of the wheels?!?! hb : no! the brand of the car! ciz: and I suppose you want to know the license plate and serial number also... Are you running my car for unpaid parking tickets??? You're not working for the parking ticket division are you? hb : no! ciz: well, do me a favor, just tell them I'll pay my fine by next Monday! age question: hb : how old are you? ciz: well, I'm old enough for you to want to fuck me without fear of being indicted --or-- ciz: I'm 75, but I don't look a day over 60. Everyone asks me who my plastic surgeon is. --or-- ciz: [ignore and ask] What do you think about guys who know what they're doing and have a sense of maturity? --or-- ciz: how old are you? hb : 18. ciz: we'll, I'm older than you. I win.
>Cliff's Comment: One of the more intriguing statements I have seen is in Advanced Macking where one night stand master Anthony Berger says "the louder the better." Anthony, any comments for Justin here?
Ciz: With a loud club, you can get away with more gesticulation in conversations. And, talking very close to her ear. I tried this once before with good results. So, if you were to imagine yourself doing something wild and adventurous... point to where you picture yourself doing this. Or, if you were to listen to the voice of adventure, where/what side would it be coming from?? And she either points right or left. Then, if you're on the wrong side, you move and then comment, as you listen to this voice of adventure... This naturally leads to quicker and stronger kino . With regards to the female automatic interrupt pattern Ross mentions, you take advantage of this. With the quicker and stronger kino you either eject rapidly, or you find yourself in, and really in.
Ciz: Has anyone experienced this? Sometimes you could be getting the hb
to relax, etc. and you can start with jokes, and even be cocky and funny, and she's pretty much laughing all the time. But I find if I am too funny, the chick never gets into a sexual state. She's always laughing. Has anyone every had this happen? This especially happens over the phone. At least in person you can move it forward with kino . But if you're too funny over the phone and she's always laughing there are problems. At times I find myself and the hb going on for over an hour with some version of improv on random topics -- which eventually leads not to us having sex but laughing hysterically. Is the answer to have periods of silence, but then I'm worried this silence is awkward. Suggestions?
Ruggero:
> Harold: Re: www.milfhunter.com Are you familiar with the above link-url? If not please have a look at it. Whence you have, tell me what your suspicions are!!! Now this guy prances around with a digicam in hand, picking up "mothers" on the street. Oddly, I don't see much of a rapport PUA technique (cos they seem game without being scored on)...so has this guy pre-prepped his targets (are they just playing to the lens cam?) or is this guy simply all balls pitching the fact for a video trade for money deal to his beauties?...and my God he ain't pitching at uglies either!!!!!!!!! Ruggero: I'm surprised to find a spam link in your newsletter. That site is just a porno site with professional actresses and professional photographers. Does that have anything to do with seduction? It seems Harold just wants some free ads from you... (I hope!)
Cliff's Comment: I don't have time to check out everything that is mentioned to me, and anything I find interesting I am passing on. Harold wasn't sure this was a staged thing or not, and that's a good reason to ask.
Mark B.: Regarding the woman that was married when one of our brothers called her on her cell phone, I would have told her husband that I fucked her the night I met her just to get back at the bitch. I have created a simple two stage seduction process for myself. The first is the approach where I see the woman, walk up to her and then ask her to come and have dinner with me or a drink or go for a walk or a coffee, whatever. Then when I am with her I do not talk about sex, fucking, blowjobs, kissing or any of such sorts but just let her talk about whatever she wants keeping in mind to not let her get away with anything unruly. The second part of the seduction involves a lot touching - stroking her hand, rubbing her forearm, rubbing her shoulders and her lower back. Then when I feel like it I just kiss her neck and then her cheek and then her lips. If she lets me and we continue then I do not stop and then take her to the bedroom where I fuck her. I found that the more I talk about sex or try to qualify her extent of her sexuality then the lesser the odds of actually fucking her.
Nick (from Australia who attended the SS seminar this past weekend here): One thing I have discovered which I was wondering if you could pass on to the rest of the SS brothers who frequent Montreal. In my search for a beach or swimming pool in Montreal, I have discovered that the Hotel de La Montange has a free swimming pool to the public with bar facilities open during the day and at night. The story gets better, as I have discovered that this is the place the strippers, etc... like to hang out and display their wears to the public for free between the times of 2 and 4 pm. As for the specific day, I guess most days as there are a hell of a lot of these clubs in town. Hence for the those interested in sarging a stripper then it's and ideal location or just a relaxing day at the pool it looks cool.
Cliff's Comments: I haven't been there during the day for years (downstairs is Thursday's Bar which is a bedrock in the nightlife community in Montreal) and didn't know if the free shows were still going on. I remember some outrageous sites there poolside when I was last there so if you are in town, check it out. As for other beaches here, Pointe Calumet Beach Club is pretty infamous (although far from downtown) and worth checking out. This is like a nightclub in the sun.
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