Everyone is Watching this Woman

Comments: The mail was fast and furious on the last post and many are watching for what will happen with that woman I went out with. Here are some selections:

Eric: (commenting on the book suggestion: "Bluff your way into astrology" By Alexander C. Rae) This book is one of the best books to ever hit the book stores. I mean where else can you learn how to bluff your way into a "romance foretold by the stars" in under 100 pages..:) I recommend it to everyone.

Leon: (Commenting on "she's too intelligent and wise about relationships which makes her dangerous") Makes her a great person to learn from. You need to Pump Her for information.

My Comment: If we were able to connect with all women such that they were as interesting and interested as this one was with me, men would not need to learn to deal with them. It was very natural.

Leon: (Commenting on "he got deeply involved and is struggling to get out of it and I don't want to get into the same situation.") He Didn't set his limits at the beginning.

My Comment: No, but he got into a situation that he does not like to be in and it is very painful. This brings up two thoughts: firstly, no pain, no gain. If you aren't prepared to get burned once in awhile, you shouldn't play with fire. For anything other than a superficial relationship, you have to expose yourself to the risks to get the rewards. I consequently think too much and hold back unless I feel that, should this happen, that I have chosen who I may end up having this happen to me with. I was once told that people choose their clothes with more care than they do their relationships. If you wanted to buy a suit, you might go into several stores, compare prices, try many different ones on, etc. before buying. When it comes to choosing a partner, how many of us are this careful? The other thought I had is that I seem to notice an intense period that happens with women as you start to date them, where without necessarily specifically saying so they can convey a seriousness and intensity of the situation to you that seems to pass as time goes on and you get to know them more. I notice this more with very intelligent women as opposed to less intelligent ones. You have to pass through this phase before they relax and allow things between you to settle down. Am I the only one noticing this?

Leon: (Commenting on my comment "At 9:30 she calls me up, very upset that as she has thought about it she is very uncomfortable with what's going on with me.") She's setting the base of support for her desired outcome.

(Commenting on "She doesn't date very often and when she does she wants it to be special): She Wants It To Be Special. She's saying what she wants to hear.

(Commenting on "She thought I was a gentleman, not a womanizer (which she defined as a man constantly in search of a parent replacement, looking for something that isn't real, etc.")): Isn't it interesting how easy this stuff is for the girls. You are to behave like she wants you to. i. e. a gentleman which has certain behaviors already defined.

(Commenting on "Well I listened to all of this and never admitted to anything. I said, "What did you think? Did you think I was going to invite you over to my place and then seduce you?"): Now she is so silly isn't she, or is she. She got you to disavow what you wanted. Now you have to act congruent with what you said.

My Comment: Yes, I implied that I disavowed what I wanted but I was careful in my choice of words. I only asked her what she was thinking, not that that was not my intention. I think I played somewhat with confusion in this situation but there may have been a better way to handle it.

Leon: (Commenting on: "I am sure that most guys chase her for her looks (she in fact confirmed this to me when we did go out finally last night)] and are only interested in nailing her") An excellent way to keep a guy in line. And it does remind me of this one girl who took big time advantage of me. Seems she was pretty easy for some other guys. Which I found out afterword.

My Comment: Anyone ever heard of "anyone but my husband?" When she made the comment about guys mainly being interested in her looks, I said that I have to like the cover but it is more important that the book is good. I really dismissed that idea to her right away, as if her looks did not impress me. Which, because I had caution in the back of my mind more than anything else, they didn't.

Leon: (Commenting on "She did a lot of the talking and spoke freely about her sexuality, her life, her having never completely surrendered herself in a love relationship") Are you the man to get her to surrender herself completely in a love relationship. What A Challenge!!

My Comment: When this came up in our conversation, I said to her that I thought that when she met this special person (self pointing) that I believed that this surrender would be very sweet and would be easy and surprisingly comfortable for her. That her fears may prove unfounded and she may come to realize that she may have made this out to be much more than it will be when it happens (now, with me...).

Leon: (Commenting on "She kissed me on both cheeks but leaned into the first one in such a way that I could have made out with her but I didn't take the bait as I have to make her pay for thinking that I was anything other than the best thing that could ever happen to her") She was willing to kiss you on the cheek. The leaning in on thing: did she want to be kissed or check to see of you were staying in line? Shes 42 with kids, she isn't 16 working at McDonalds, and she spoke freely about her sexuality. If she doesn't slip you some tongue next time, chances of getting what you want are silm. Unless of course you use some SS, and start getting her hot. Cliff, this woman is your big time opportunity to learn a lot of shit. Write down everything that happens with her. Especially what she says, and your initial feelings and response. We will be able to benefit from it in two ways. One by being able to recognize it and Two by being able to use it ourselves.

My Comment: My feeling, based on the way she kissed my cheeks (where actually she veered towards my lips rather than me doing this. In Montreal, the "two cheek kiss" when you meet and when you part is very common and is a politically correct way for her to express some affection) remains that if I were to have made a movement towards making out with her she really would have gone for it. And I did use SS on her selectively (she did a lot of the talking), mostly in terms of sections of process language and some ambiguous statements. I agree that there is an opportunity to learn here and I will provide further details as they develop.

Leon: (Commenting on "I think I know now what to do, talk less about the job and more about plans to improve my situation just as you described.") Find something about life that you can speak about enthusiastically and the link everything to yourself. That's what I'm doing. The girls just light up and are totally rapped. I'm actually starting to think that I can just keep rambling on and never stop. "I just got into poetry and it's like you See Something So Wonderful right in front of you and you just have to Go For It." I just blab about anything.

My Comment: I think you can talk about anything at all but the key is the underlying attitude which will be reflected in what you are saying. To make this clearer, obviously a computer nerd talking non-stop about software no matter how enthusiastic will not get a woman excited unless underlying this is a personality which has some seductive elements.

Leon: So here's a pattern for you. Go for it: "I’ll bet that you're the type of person that when you See Something You Really Want. You are definitely going to Go For It. Right? Well you Remind me of my Close Friend Kim. When she sees that Something Special that she really wants. She says its like You Are Mysteriously Drawn Toward It. And you Feel A Desire Deep Inside that you just have to fill. Like the other day she was at the mall and there was this dress. It's like you See Something Sooo Attractive right in front of you and You Really Want It. And it's like there’s this window of opportunity. And you know that you have to Go For It. Because you know that someone else can appreciate How Attractive It Is. She was really excited to see how well it fits because It's Sooo Sexy. The way it moves over her body. And the way it softly caresses her. She says it's the same when she sees someone and He’s So Attractive. That you stop and you Go Inside and you think about The Ideal Man You Want To Be With. And you realize that Everything You Want In A Man Is Right Here. It's that same window of opportunity. You just have to Go For It. She actually stops guys and is open about what she wants. She finds that she gets to Be With Someone Exciting, by doing this. So ________, if you were to find Someone Attractive and you could Imagine Having A Wonderful Time Together. What would you do to make sure that you could Be With Him." And if she says what she will do, and does it at the same time, that would be great. I just developed this so I haven't used it yet.

My Comment: Thanks for the pattern, which I decided to present here for those reading this who have never seen a typical SS pattern. But I am not really looking for these postings to be presenting patterns; that is best left where it belongs which is on the SS list. The purpose of these is for comments on seduction which would be off-topic for the SS list, not to compete or present SS material.

Generaly: On the subject of "purpose," I think that the key is "Strength." In other words, women are attracted to men who are "Strong." AND, I am not talking about physical strength, because a lot of the muscle boys are real wimps. I am talking about the kind of strength that makes a woman feel safe, relax, and allows her to be a woman. Let me give you an example: This morning my date tried to get me to put on my clothes, and carry a one-gallon can of paint out to her car. I made a personal decision not to. She tried all of her feminine wiles on me. I did not budge. After it was all over, she was happy! I consider being strong to have been a great gift to her. It would have been a whole lot easier to give her what she asked for, but I decided to put out a little extra energy, and take a little extra risk to give her what she wanted. What did she get? She got another opportunity to let go, relax, and feel the strength of the masculine. This means that she could relax and be a woman. The main way that a woman can get to feel this strength is to test for it. After detecting her feminine relaxation, I anchor it big-time!!!

My Comment: I remain fascinated by these type of tactics which prove to be highly effective but are out of my ordinary behavioral expectations. For example, showing strength like this and having her be thrilled that you didn't do what she was pushing you to do.

Generaly: I have found that when women are "bitches" they are setting up a situation where a man can show his strength. I really enjoy this now!!! I never thought that I would enjoy abuse, threats of abandonment, and pushy behaviour. Now that I know what is going on, I have found a way to turn it into a great gift, and a great feeling of personal control. To this end, I have started to use all kinds of metaphors with the women like: why don't you just put a leash around my neck, trim my ears and tail, and take me out for a walk to show your friends (said with a sardonic tone. use a dog, cat, fish, of any kind, this is the land of a million metaphors), use me like a charm on your bracelet, and of course the patterns of "Feel the strength, know you can relax, feel like a women because you can see that the man in front of you is a real man, etc..."

Polarity is the driving force behind the force of sex!!! "Strength" can help anyone relax. For example: in your business lives, do you feel yourself relax when you are around people who have shown that they are strong? People who you know will be there when the chips are down, people who you know will take care of business and weather whatever storms come up and hold up their end of the deal. It could be said that "trust" requires that you be able to "count on" that person. Strength!

My Comment: This is a very important realization. If we are to conclude that when woman are being bitches they are really giving you the opportunity to put them in their place so they can respect, admire and desire you, this should change dramatically how you deal with those situations. For example, Ross talks of a lot of good comebacks when women are bitchy such as "you're no where near good looking enough to have that kind of attitude". But if we take this to the next level it means that using force against force (obviously in a calculated manner) that you should be able to quickly turn the situation around. I have this underlying belief in people and that ultimately they are basically good (not everyone, of course) (that means you, Ray) (just kidding) and "everyone is nice to someone". So the fact that they may be a bitch to you at one time doesn't mean that with the right handling she won't be craving you another time.

Maxin: (Commenting on: "In fact, the more I learn the more I think that women are as eager to seduce men as men are to seduce women, it's just that most men don't go after them in a way that lets them express this") And also women don't really receive a lot of training in this respect. I for the most part have always required women to be quite the seducers to get me interested. A few times here and there I have been the initiator, but I so loved having a woman work hard to pique my interest and I was so shy that it really didn't happen unless SHE wanted (and wanted it bad enough) I am so happy to have discovered SS and even though it is requiring me to relearn much of my modus operandi with women, I can feel myself changing in really powerful and exciting ways. Part of the problem with allowing women to seduce you, is that it seems that the ones who really have it down, are "oddities" either overweight, slightly off the mark in the physical beauty department, or having strange ideas about relationships. When women are drop dead gorgeous, they are sometimes crippled in the learning department, because so many opportunities are just thrown at them. I don't know if you've ever had the experience of being with an beautiful woman who doesn't know how to kiss, is a boring lay, and is neurotic about blowjobs, but I have. Some women don't "have" to leard how to be any good at these things because they have an overabundance of relationship opportunities and even the men they are with are too spineless to tell them it is a problem.

My Comment: Surely many of us have had women that were disappointing in their performance next to their looks. But my experience today is that there are a hell of a lot of women out there who are very experienced, very knowledgeable, great performers, and highly intelligent. Yes, it is true that many overweight women really have great personalities; but a lot of beautiful women have problems expressing their special qualities because most men can't see beyond their looks.

Maxin: (Commenting on: "I know that I still deal with my own limiting beliefs which I am aware that I allow to prevent myself from obtaining everything I want out of women and relationships.") I have noticed, that beautiful and intelligent women are incredibly fascinated with this topic, I engaged a woman in the spa hot tub one day when she said "I always remember faces but I'm not so good with names", I said "keep saying that and it will be true". She reacted like I had said the most profound thing she had ever heard. Beautiful and intelligent women are consistently told that they are beautiful and have everything going for them, but sometimes know their limiting beliefs are what are really holding them back. I think this is why Major Mark's "I'm a hypnotist" strategy works so well, they crave was to defeat their limiting beliefs, just like we do, we are the creme de la creme of men in our society today, so "on it", so interested in fulfilling our potential, that we have dedicated a significant portion of our lives to learning how to get what we want.

My Comment: Have you ever noticed that if you say something that sounds profound to a woman that she usually eats it up, whether it was profound or not? I think a discussion of working on your limiting beliefs points to your ambition at improving yourself and this is appealing.

Maxin: (Commenting on: "At 9:30 she calls me up, very upset that as she has thought about it she is very uncomfortable with what's going on with me.") How incredibly lame, calling a hour late to tell you she was uncomfortable about the plans she made with you, I understand her point, but her choice of delivery was an attempt to regain control and have you work within HER game.

My Comment: I agree and was aware of it when she called. I wasn't totally prepared for her attack but I knew not to specifically give an inch; repeat what she says to show I understand, be vague, be strong, and just let her blow off steam were what I was thinking.

Maxin: (Commenting on "She did a lot of the talking and spoke freely about her sexuality, her life, her having never completely surrendered herself in a love relationship, etc.") Use this last point as leverage if she gives you a hard time or tries to exert power or control. In other words, you told me previously about never completely surrendered yourself in a love relationship, maybe you have never met a man who was worthy of that and that you realize you feel safe enough to let yourself feel that with... ME, as I understand it, that's kind of sad. I was talking to my friend Colleen and she was telling me that until she found the man she could feel comfortable about surrendering herself to, she never truly felt she had reached her full potential as a fulfilled women (or any other thing she might be motivated by) blah blah blah

My Comment: As soon as a woman talks about sex with me in a manner which doesn't exclude the possibility of having sex with me, I know she's toast. If I blow it now, it will only be my own fault.

Maxin: (Commenting on "She kissed me on both cheeks but leaned into the first one in such a way that I could have made out with her but I didn't take the bait as I have to make her pay for thinking that I was anything other than the best thing that could ever happen to her.") You are awesome, this is the best handling of this situation I could possibly imagine. Sounds like you are not out of the woods yet, watch for more power play stunts from her, but she sounds like she's probably off the fence and in your court.

My Comment: I think so also. But she is looking for big game (i.e. a rrrrrrelationship) and I want to take the next steps carefully with her.

Maxin: The February issue of Playboy Magazine has an article by a guy who decided to go on 20 dates and surreptitiously videotaped them for a movie project, the movie is due out in March 99 (if I remember correctly) called "20 dates" or something like that. He says in the process he learned how to date and that the key is volume, after as many dates as he did, he got used to the flow, and what he should say based upon certain questions etc. good article, I can't wait for the movie.

(Commenting on when you are asked about your job): The best bet, is to discover something about your current job that you do like, something that you are passionate about, and come up with a way to segue into a seduction theme while talking about it. I am a High Tech Recruiter, and I tell women I love how I can pick up the phone and connect with people all over the Nation. And how I now have connections, sometimes with people I haven't even met yet, in Atlanta or D.C. or Texas or Florida etc.

My Comment: I don't think we can underestimate the effect of the language of seduction. Talking about "connections", "love"(even love of a job), etc. all plant these words in their heads coming from you and in the grand scheme of things contribute to their overall opinion of you.

Maxin: (Commenting on My Comment about "The only difference between what you were talking about and the situation I mentioned is that the move to talk into her ear was done before a connection had been established. Some guys are able to create that "instantaneous connection" but for me I find that it takes awhile for her to really feel connected to the point where she will keep out distractions from friends and other men who may try and step into the picture) I read this and thought you were creating a pattern. This is great stuff, this actually could be something that you could say to a woman "Some guys are able to create that "instantaneous connection" but for me I find that it takes awhile for her to really feel connected to the point where..." I rarely talk about instantaneous connections, mostly because I find that the topic is a mine field, so many women have had the experience (especially if they are 25+) of having been burned by someone they "thought" was connecting to them in that way.

My Comment: I have to say that I frequently talk right away about making that powerful connection, now, with me, to many of the women I approach. Rather than finding ones that have been burned, I find a large number of them that I approach just have never made an instantaneous connection and I have to go to a different nude erection (new direction).

A2dotml: (Commenting on my story about Caroline's sister in the last posting) In the last 6 months I've lost out on 2 relationships. One with an extremely beautiful (maybe the best looking I have ever gone out with) HB and one who is the most passionate woman I have ever known. I thought the way to go was what I thought was the opposite of how other men treated them both. I'm 44 they were both 30. Both with kids, a deal I'm not willing to get into since I have 3 of my own that live with me. Anyway, although they both liked me, I played it too casual. Both now have boyfriends that went all out for them. It seems to me most women like the idea of falling in love and being swept off their feet in a short period of time. It also seems to me that going all out doesn't mean that you are making a lifetime commitment to them.

My Comment: I think if you were to consider all of the various strategies and tactics that have been successful, the only logical conclusion is that different things will work with different, and sometimes the same, women. For example, she may find a guy who is aloof interesting and the next day a guy who does something different in an intriguing way (such as going all out) could also be of interest. In terms of going all out, I think this relates to the concept of worthiness in that a woman of quality doesn't want to go with just anyone. She wants someone who is worthy. Part of that worthiness can be the man's effort and strong interest in her. I know from time to time I am lazy and this just doesn't show them the value that they feel they deserve. So I try and keep this under control.

Terry I look at the rubes that pick up women instinctually and see that their base intelligence is not very high. Take my cousin for example. He has not read a book for years and years. Yet he can go out on any night and say, "I want a blow job in my truck" and he will get a blow job in his truck. He doesn't know how he does it. Alcohol is a factor, so is blatancy, but he has never analyzed his own behaviour and I'm sure if he did his results would change. But looking at his behaviour and looking at why he is able to score I can cite the following reasons:

1. He is married (shitty but he cheats), therefore there is no pressure. If he doesn't get the bj he knows he can go home and get it. (He also doesn't think oral sex is cheating).

2. He talks to everyone, and anyone. He rarely has to do a cold (warm) walkup because he gets people who he is talking to to introduce him to the HB's.

3. Over the course of the night he becomes very blatant in a joking manner. He talks openly about sex, with everyone, and regards his sex talk as nothing out of the ordinary.

My Comment: I used to be friends with a woman (actually still friends but she would only wait for me to call and one way friendships I usually end) who told me of this short, bald, skinny and nothing to look at guy who had the filthiest mouth she ever came across. Yet her and all her friends thought he was just the sexiest thing around.

Terry: 4. Definiteness of purpose. (He knows exactly what he wants when he walks into a place)

5. He is in killer shape. Working out is his religion. I'll think of more, but I haven't been out with him in awhile as he often gets into fights as well.

My Comment: Your cousin just knows how to be the jerk women love.

Terry: I think the key to starting conversations is what Hyperbond calls ecology of your states. You have to install the states in yourself. If you want her to feel pleasant sensations, you have to be experiencing pleasant sensations and so on. I am establishing a hierarchy of states that I wish to install. When I am satisfied with what I have I will send it off.

(Commenting on moving cautiously with a woman): I have over erred on the side of caution. THis in my mind was to appear a gentleman, or something. Now, I am going to be blatant as hell. I used to be a lot crazier before I got desperate. When I was younger, I got laid a lot. This had to do with a certain blatancy that I don't have the balls to pull off anymore. A lot of this stuff ain't legal either, and if it doesn't work, you are in trouble. When I was a kid, I didn't have these concerns. For example, In my early twenties, I lived in Asia. I had a steady girl and we dated for over a year. Cultural differences drove us apart, yada, yada. Anyway after we split up, I went to Thailand to drown my sorrows. Now being in a place like Thailand makes you blatant as hell. You can get sex anytime you want for 5 bucks so it is not an issue, follow me? Anyway, I didn't want Asian women at that juncture. White women was what I wanted. In the span of one month I got laid 10 times. 5 of these were women that were walking past me in a bar, I would grab them and give them a full tongue kiss. Alcohol was involved, but no one resisted me. I don't know how I got away with that shit but it worked. I have done this in the past in Canada as well, at parties, in the bar, no one has ever resisted or put up a fuss. I have not done that since Thailand though. Other stuff that I used to do was crap like grabbing some chicks tits, or ass or something. I haven't done that in a long time either. When I was in Asia, at first I was having trouble getting laid. Not getting the chicks home and undressed, but they would always say no. I talked to a very wise ex-patriot and he said, "Asian women need to be taken, they will always give you the impression that they don't want to, you have to take them." So when they said no, I would continue, if they pushed me away, I would stop, but if they would respond to my touches, i.e. mouth says no body says yes, then I would continue. I always stop, when a white woman says no. Maybe they need to be taken as well? Or at least feel like they are being taken. I'm not sure what point I am trying to get to here, but, at one point in time, I knew what to do, yet now, at least pre-SS, I had been floundering. Perhaps it is from over anal-lyzing.

(Commenting on "as soon as they talk about sex I know their ass is mine. Women will not talk about sex with someone they wouldn't consider having sex with because they don't want that person to get the wrong idea): If women talk about sex, I get horny and this makes me bolder.

(Commenting on my comment about Montreal "We got cold weather but we have some of the hottest women around."): I have to agree with you Clifford, women in Montreal dress like they do in Europe. This makes a huge difference. Winnipeg, is no slouch though. We get a bad rap, but, if you haven't been you would be pleasantly surprised. Several top models come from here, and Playboy once rated Grand Beach in the top ten for women. I think it is the mix of Ukranian and Russian blood that we have here. Lots of blondies. You can go out and see some awesome women. I guess, every place and every culture has some beautiful women though, right?

My Comment: From what I have seen, every sizable city has some amazing women. You may have to really look to find them, though.

Terry: (Commenting on a comment I made about my goals in relation to seduction) So where do you want it to be? What are your goals in regards to this? Have you been studying NLP, and introducing process language to your non-seduction dealings?

My Comment: I want to conquer this man-woman thing, to be able to fully execute any seduction I undertake and maintain it on my terms.

Terry: I think NLP is all about change. I know my core being will not change, I will always be who I am , yet, behaviours, are malleable. People are people, everyone has similiar hopes dreams and aspirations. To use this knowledge to make people's lives better is what is important to me. Happy girls fuck more, too.

(Commenting on luck in hunting for women): Hopefully now that I am installing these states, that luck will not play a part. I know you are using an expression but that was my primary motivation to dropping the money on Ross's course was so that I didn't have to rely on the oh so nebulous luck. I got my last girl friend through luck, and put up with three years of hoping she was going to become the person that I wanted her to be. In the end I knew that was never possible, yet, I still wanted it to, because I thought, well, now I have to get lucky to find, a person who has all the qualities that I want. Today, I have the attitude that I don't need luck. I am the selector, and when I make a choice to be with someone it is my choice. I know you are at this stage already, but I will be there as soon as I can.

My Comment: Someone once mentioned to me that women marry a man hoping to change him and men marry women hoping they won't change. I think the ultimate strategy is that no one can make you happy except yourself.