Who do these women think they're dealing with?

Maximillian Hell: PUAs I have known I thought I would make my own small contribution regarding PUAs that could be modeled. In my frosh year of college I knew a fellow who was then about 24. He was fairly good looking, but was also fairly overweight. When I describe him to people, they always respond “He sounds like the guy from the Tao of Steve!” He was the same size as Donal Logue, minus the extra stomach padding he wore for the part. He had a mustache, which was incredibly unfashionable then and made him look much older. But while I was talking with him in the middle of the quad one day, I noticed that these gorgeous freshman girls kept coming up to talk to him. They all had an absolute gleam in their eyes. I really have no idea if he was laying these chycks, but from the way they looked at him, they looked ready any time he was. He also did street PU , from what I heard him say. He was big on kino , little squeezes on the shoulder I remember in particular. A year or so later he was big into hand kisses, but I think his game was diminishing by then. He was jolly, and fairly funny, and always had a beatific smile. These days, I am trying to do that same smile. A tall and very good-looking goth PUA I used to know said that his club- PU tactic was to dance near his target and eventually edge his way towards her until they were dancing together, and then somehow he would get to know her from there. He was very much into dancing dramatically in that swirly goth style. He claimed to have slept with about 60 women (we were both 20 at the time), including sexual intercourse in alleyways (this is in Vancouver, where I hear the alleys are built in such a way that they somehow facilitate this). He was not the bragging sort, and he was good looking, so I am inclined to believe him. “Savoir-faire” was what was needed for seduction, he said. M a retired PUA . He was steering me into ASF -type attitudes before I discovered ASF . He was unmarried until age 33. He claims that he never went on a date, or asked a woman for her phone number. Meeting his targets through friends, particularly at parties seemed to be his MO. He also highly recommends getting to know families, as an entrée to HBs . You should finagle an invitation to holiday dinners if you can. Among his maxims “Don’t ask women for advice on women. Women do not know what they want, though they think they do.” Borefriends were no obstacle . Similar to one of Rio’s essays about PUAs , M is fond of “drifting.” He said my calculating manner and inability to “drift” and go with the flow was hurting my game. He claims to have lived a vagabondish existence in his salad days -- no steady job or domicile. “Eye contact is key”-he said to me, as though he were inducting me into the inner circle--“if you abuse this, I will have to reproach you.” Though he also says that it can be overdone. He likes classic poetry, saying that few women can resist Byron’s “She Walks in Beauty.” “Ode to a Grecian Urn” is also recommended. I’ve been trying to pin him down on the essentials of his game. He says that making an observation to the woman about her personality or behavior, was a conversation starter. Observing something that other people would not notice. For instance he started a convo with an HB because he noticed her eavesdropping on another convo, and pointed this out to her. It sounds a lot like pacing to me. I’ve noticed that he does a lot of silly teasing and kidding around with one young HB we hang out with. Though he is married, whenever she sees me alone, she always says “next time you see M, tell him I love him.”

My Ukrainian house mate. He has a very pleasant and easygoing manner. He has a wife back home, but he appears from all evidence to have slept with a house mate of ours, and later with her friend and then with another woman (the HBs spent all night in his room, and then appeared to have a very romantic glow about them the next morning when I saw them). He assaults these women with a relentless barrage of teasing, kino , and silly talk. In How to Succeed with Women, Badalamenti says that Freud said that teasing plays to women’s masochistic streak. This is exactly what my grandfather used to do! Now I understand it! My grandmother constantly fought with him, constantly expressed her antipathy for him, ran back to her mother when she was young, yet stayed with him for sixty some years.

(On a different note:) I am having a hard time thinking up fresh negs . Is it OK to neg on appearance? Many of the negs I see in the layguides deal with some superficial aspect of appearance, but what about more substantial things? For example, is it OK to tease a short HB about her height -- to call her a shrimp or a twerp? This would of course be done with a smile and a playful manner. I’ve noticed that many adorably petite girls wish that they were tall. I’ve done a bit of this sort of negging with my house mate, it didn’t seem to hurt our friendship, we still did stuff together and she liked being around me, but I didn’t get any sexual success with her, either. A lot of women in their late 20s are very self-conscious of their perceived fading beauty. An HB I hadn’t seen in almost a year -- the first thing she says to me is “how do I look?” Perhaps in this sort of case, the avoidance of any direct reassuring comment might be a good neg . E.g: “you look fine,” said in a distant manner, to subtly cast some doubt on her self-image. Or an initial distant blank stare combined with: “Oh, I didn’t recognize you.” “Did you change your hair color?”

The 48 Laws of Power is very firmly against appearance negs , saying that you can tease a person on anything but their appearance. What do you all think?

Richard:
> Cliff's Comment: I certainly saw that Mystery's way will get you the hottest women. David's relentless way is such that when he used to go out, he was going out to get laid and there was no two ways about that. He would go out, pick up two women, bring them back, do them, take their numbers and bring them back and then go out and pick up more. He would often do two or three a night. The key is to find what works for you, what you are comfortable with, and what fits your style. I think there are common elements to these methods, such as confidence, strength of personality, being talkative, being warm and cold at the right times, etc. and the more you learn the better off you will be.

Richard: With the above in mind, does anyone have or see their way clear, to create a run down on the currently available methods/styles?... e.g. Method/Style === Key Elements === Type/ target group of women === general success ratio === Pro's & Cons Or something similar? Just a thought, keep it in mind...as some influential individual might say. What!...to linear for ya? sorry...Go get yourself a hug ; )

TBA:
> Cliff's Comment: This is clearly a situation where he is claiming his territory and you are the enemy. My first thought would be to befriend the guy - turn the situation around and make him your buddy. Once he's been disarmed and charmed, the girl will be impressed.

TBA: Well, actually, I kind of did that since we both play on the same team and the bar is our sponsor. We seemed to get along. But I was sitting next to this gal (who is fairly flirtatious) who has a short attention span and as I had just learned some pattern I thought what the hell, I should try it out on this gal. Well she went very DDB , and the trance state blew me away. I have tried to befriend potential cb, but it never seems to work as planned... I now am just beginning to resent this guy, since the chick eventually pursued him, but I feel if I had more time I may have been able to do something with it..

Barry: This is a comment on the situation, where some guy comes out of nowhere, and puts his arms around the chicks waist, and she seems to be enjoying it... While you stand, or sit there feeling like an idiot. This can be an uncomfortable situation, however you really have to do what Cliff says, and that is disarm, and charm the cockblocker. I have been in this situation many times, as I am in an area where alot of people know each other and I am used to this situation. Firstly, do not change your state - keep that same attitude you had before the cockblock shows up. If you change your state or suddenly become quiet, she will sense this. Secondly, immediately offer a handshake to the cockblock , introduce yourself, glad to meet you, are you from this area, etc. Thirdly, ask "So how do you and say "Carol" know each other... (she may say, "oh he's just a friend from high school or whatever.. In the meantime, maintain your eye contact going between them. Once you know how they know each other, you will know which direction to go in. If you hear things you would rather not like to hear, and you get ideas that she really wants him, or worse, that she is romancing him... eject and move on. Then go around the bar, talking with other chicks or friends... if you happen to bump into the guy later, say "hey, so are you enjoying your night? He may offer you some insight as to what is happening... plus you are charming the cockblock ... fire in a compliment about his watch or some bullshit. Whatever, blab about the N.H.L playoffs, Superbowl, etc. just don't appear standoffish. Believe it or not, he may invite you back to the table, or tell you about this hot chick he knows that could be coming in any minute. The ways, and events that could happen are open to all possiblilities.. You may bump into some chick that you banged in the past, but don't want now... so you introduce him to her...( pawn him off) he could get all caught up, in the chick you introduced... and dance the night away with her... while you go back sarging the original chick. anything can an might happen. So I usually befriend the cockblock ; actually I met a few good guys this way, believe it or not, and got to know chicks through the dudes. I treat the scene like Rick H. does, "This is my V.I.P. party and I am the biggest V.I.P. here. Fourthly, after you eject, every now and then, without being obvious, glance over towards her, and him, to see if they are getting closer, kissing, or, if things are getting worse for him. Fifthly, and most of all, just enjoy yourself. There are more women in the bar... who gives a fuck about her... and if she had any attraction for you when you are talking to another chick, you may be surprised to see her come up to you, and start trying to move her way in on you. Each situation is different, while he could be a real moron when you offer to shake hands, usually the guy will be friendly to you as he doesn't want to appear to be an idiot in front of the chick. Keep in mind that you are out to have fun - you are out to socialize and meet women. Befriend as many people as you can and don't get all caught up by one hot babe.

Roth: I met you at David D'Angelo's seminar. I am a friend of Arte's (master of the G-Spot revolution as discussed in Secrets of Sensual Lovemaking and the New Sex video series www.NewSex.org . I am also a licensed and bonded "squirtologist", as Arte would say. I have found that combining a few things I learned at the seminar from David, and from Rick H., with my deep knowledge of Arte's techniques seems to fit my style well and I have a little success story. I was coming out of the Rite Aid drug store (you know, typical hot pick up place) and there, next to my car, in the parking lot stand these two completely hot 8-9's, one wearing itsy bitsy short shorts with heels and a tank top that shows off her voluptuous body, the other more elegant and svelte. I am in my car, just pulling out when I strike up a conversation with them, using the basic cocky/funny routine and sprinkling all kinds of spiritual bullshit (astrology, yoga, meditation, etc.) in there because I'm good at that, when the conversation turns to sex. They ask me what I do for a living, I have already joked that I am a smuggler, but now I tell them I own a male escort service. This one is great. I tell the tall one I specialize in G-spot orgasms. She apparently is VERY familiar with them (although doesn't seem to have much experience with them) and wants to know EVERYTHING. I tell her she has to be sufficiently relaxed (she's asking me how long my massage will be...) and then sufficiently aroused (and tunes right in when I tell her that I will *not* touch her below the waist until I see her whole body undulating...). I have not touched her at this point. My motor is still running and I am in park. I take her hand and hold my hand over hers without touching, pretending it is her genitals- she is getting very hot...calls her friend (the voluptuous one) over "you have to FEEL what he is DOING!!"... Then I spread her fingers open as if it were her legs and describe how I am going to touch her. With this I touch the back of her knuckles, pretending it's the g spot, so BARELY, and she shudders in excitement. She says she has to find a man who can do that. I say she found one - she says "Erik wants a threesome". Turns out the two of them are first cousins. Filipinos. Very sexy. They take my phone number and promise to call and both come over. That gets convoluted and for a day or so there it seems like they are going to bring their sister. To make a long story short the voluptuous one ends up coming over ALONE. She walks in - nearly the same sexy outfit she wore at Rite Aid! Now she's clacking her heels all over my wood floor and asks if she should take off her shoes. I tell her I like it better with them on. She says she does too. Yum. In the kitchen, she asks me what I am making dinner with and I show her the coconut butter I cook with and tell her to close her eyes. I take a tiny bit of coconut butter and wipe it on her lips, slowly teasing her and bringing up the volume. I back away and look at her, she still wants to suck the butter off my finger... Next we take a tour of the construction in my house downstairs. We are standing in the midst of the dust and tools when I begin to start smelling lightly her hand, her wrist, her arm, all the way up her neck, shoulders, ears, all over her upper body, NOT GOING ANYWHERE NEAR HER BREASTS... Just teasing and teasing slowly. When I pull away after 5 or 10 minutes, she sighs and says "wow, that was like Tai Chi"... Volume knob on its way up... We go back upstairs and I'm feeding her plenty of wine and herb and she has to take a phone call. When she gets off I am standing on the stairwell and she comes over and stands one step below me. Here's where I slap her ass and call her a brat for being so rude- thanks Rick. Works wonders. Next thing I am kissing her from above, then step one step below her and kiss her from below, again, not touching any sexual part of her. Volume turning slowwwllly up. So then we are back eating the next course and I ask if she wants more wine. She says yes, but she has a time limit- I say- 11pm? That's in a half hour! She gives me some lame excuse and I'm thinking I have been moving along way too slowly. Fortunately, however, that is NOT the case. She has become so worked up from my gentle teasing that within 2 minutes of sitting on the couch with our wine, we are making out heavily. She tells me she likes it when I am in control, that she likes it rough, that she likes to be slapped. And how the coconut butter makes her lips feel so soft. I tell her how hot she looks and how much I love kissing her. The next thing I know, I am delivering the sequence of the g-spot orgasm, as outlined in Arte's work. She doesn't know what to do except tell me I really know what I am doing. When I hit her "spot", she is in wild throes of orgasmic pleasure. Begging me to fuck her. I don't. I then work on her for a clitoral orgasm. Another burst of pleasure. We are way past 11pm at this point. Finally, after her giving me a fantastic blowjob and breastfuck (and in a classic Bill-Monica moment, tells me she won't shower the next day...) I make her come once more by only holding her and sucking on her neck. She is totally amazed that she could get off with no stimulation and asks me how I do that. Trade secrets, I tell her... Then as she's putting her clothes on, I say "That will be $300.00". She looks at me- stunned - then sees my smirk and laughs. Classic. She left some stuff over here and I expect her back today to pick it up (and pick up where we left off)...maybe next time with her cousin...? One really great thing that happened the day afterwards when we were talking about how hot it was when we were getting it on was that she told me she had never met anyone like me before, that she really admired the reality that I lived in (my home, music, artistic taste, food, wine, environment, etc.) and thanked me for welcoming her into it. I travel a fair amount and collect art and furniture from all over the world, so it fits with the male escort lifestyle image- plus even if they figure out I am really in the import export trade (which I am), it still sounds so mysterious they have no idea what they are dealing with... I thought about the "make her a guest in your reality" comment from the seminar, and it was like she was programmed to repeat it back to me. It was so easy, because I was able to just be myself with her, only with a few hints from the masters. Props to David D., Rick H. and Arte for their advice and to you Clifford for running this list.

GameMaster (DevilBoy Strikes Again!) : Want to hear something weird...Suzanne, the model of society right? Well, I have always tried my best to be a gentleman with her and conform to her own model of the perfect man. Once I figured we weren't really going anywhere I had her meet me for drinks two weeks ago and the subject came up again of "are you seeing anybody?" I don't know why but I've always tried to lead her to believe that business came first and I didn't really have time for any extracurriculars. Well, I told her about the four girls floating around out there and about the beach weekend with Shannon. I didn't know what kind of reaction I would get and figured that would be that cause I've basically been lying to her but she lit up like a fucking Christmas tree. I guess I finally found the right doorway with her by accident, proving once again that they are all freaks and whores, which is a role she plays very well in bed. She's so goddamn proper it almost makes me uncomfortable but she is a catch and a half. She's gone from playing hide and seek with me to being all over me now, which is kind of cool. And she's become very inquisitive, but in a playful way. Crazy man, I've learned this lesson for the last time...I just never thought Suzanne would fall into that category. (Two weeks later) Well, hell Cliff, I can't figure that woman out! I told her about the other 5 girls, right? That seemed to really peak her interest, and we went through this phase where she was calling daily and wanting to get together for this or that...then last Saturday while we were having lunch she brought it up again and asked "are you having sex with all these women?" My feigned angelic look gave me away. "You're having sex with 5 other women!!!!!" (ha-I forgot about Felicia from the Club so that's 6 actually. Damn! : ) You know you can get all kinds of STD's including herpes even using a condom..." Well, the conversation sort of went downhill from there and she ain't returning my phone calls. Damn Cliff, what did she think - that I just enjoyed traveling all over the fucking South just to spend time with these girls? Anyway, the revelation of two weeks ago is sort of shot to shit! I don't really care cause this will up my stock with all her girlfriends of which she has many and I'm still enough of a curiosity to keep in the periphery. She's just showing her disapproval of the whole thing, I guess. Whatever, I got the bartender at the Club on the fast track. Remember the other girl Christy I told you about? Well, she asked around about me at the club and got thumbs-down from everybody, they all basically agreed I was the Anti-Christ. Well, she's married and I guess that puts me in the forbidden fruit category cause I can't slow this train down but right now I'm playing coy...basically against "type" that's been painted for her by all my ex buddies at the Club. More to follow but she's talking about taking another week in the fall to fly to Prague with me so we can stay at her friend's place! This has some interesting possibilities. Here's the latest with the Betty saga in Florida. OK, now I know this is just as fucking low as I can get alright...I understand that from the get-go but she hasn't left me any alternative. Her birthday is Friday...originally she was flying up for the weekend and she waffled on that and cancelled. I said 'no problem honey, it's your birthday I'll come down there and stay at your house.' That was all cool with her until last week and she started acting all weird and shit and waffling on that deal, too. I called the house late Saturday nite and her hubby answered the phone "Hello, GameMaster"! Can you believe that shit? So anyway, he's taking the kids out of town for the weekend and leaving her unattended. She was still waffling on me and wanted to know what my expectation was for the weekend. So I told her I had a surprise for her (now I didn't have no fuckin surprise but I figured I better throw out some bait at this point - actually my surprise was to videotape her being fucked in the ass! hahahahaha) So more waffling and more stuff designed to just piss me off to the point where I would just say FUCK IT like telling me she had to go play Goddamn bingo with friends on Saturday nite and I'd be on my own! Now, you know I don't take this shit lightly so I countered with an Academy Award performance of hurt feelings, etc., etc., and then I told her the surprise was an engagement ring. Now Betty knows me pretty well by now and she called bullshit on that immediately....called it a 'calculated tactic' that she expected. So, I dug out my ex's old ring and went to Kinko's and faxed her a copy of the thing with best wishes to go "fuck off" basically. Well, my calculated tactic paid off. I'm expected for dinner Thursday nite and it's a 'no restriction' weekend. Two days ago it was a "no sex" weekend....yeah, right! Who do these women think they're dealing with????? BTW, I'm taking this "cursed" ring with me but I also plan to bring it back home now that I find how much utility this thing has! haw haw haw Oh yeah this is funny! Maureen came by late Saturday nite after June had just left to go pick up her kid. She took one look at my disheveled ass and said "you just got laid, didn't ya?" Well, duh! Anyway, that eliminated me from contention with her for Saturday nite but she countered with this...."look, I've got some STUFF and I want to take a nite off and come over and trip with you, but I have to bring home $200 so 'my man' won't get suspicious." (He's a dick.) Anyway, I told Maureen I'd split it with her and give her $100 and make sure she was out the door by 5:00AM. I figure that's about $8 an hour for her time which is a fucking deal and we've never spent more than an hour together at a time so this should be fun. She also told me Raquel was coming to town for 2 weeks and was looking for a place to stay! I told Maureen we could work something out. Apparently Raquel (Cliff's note: GameMaster almost married Raquel) still has feelings but I haven't heard from her since I caught her in bed with a customer that nite. Fucking whores all of em! Anyway, I'm sure there's drama galore coming with this deal. : ) Cliff, I got way too much time on my hands.

Tenore: I have been trying to develop an approach that is both effective, and yet relatively comfortable for me. I am in my mid 50's, and I need to lose about 15 lbs. So I am at a *significant* disadvantage with respect to many (most) of you guys. At the same time, I have capitalized upon my advantages as best I can. I have grown my hair quite long, which attracts hot babes, in spite of the bald spot at the top. (One lovely lady even proclaimed, during lovemaking, that she found my bald spot a turn-on, and her actions surely proved it). I have also learned to give off the “Alpha Male” impression (or at least something reasonably close to it) by the way I walk and move. This is something that until about age 40 I had never done in my entire life. In fact, I was quite the opposite, and undoubtedly it showed. But after thinking about it for a while, I determined to learn by trial and error what the Alpha Male behavior is like, asking myself, in essence, “What is there to lose?” I think many guys learned, when young, not to act like that, or risk getting beat up by another would-be Alpha. As adults, that habit has now become counter-productive, and should be discarded. Assuming that you stay out of Biker Bars and stick to Singles/Pickup places, and assuming that you are not belligerent with men and keep your actions civil, there is simply NO reason to act otherwise. Even in the business world, to carry oneself like a Hot Stud does NOT really hurt anything, so long as you continue to be a “diligent businesslike guy” in your work. As might be expected, the women I am getting are mostly in the age range of 35-45. However, some of them are *extremely* fine, and I am sure that even many of you mid-20s guys would drool at the prospect of bedding them. In fact, what is extremely gratifying to me is that I am getting some excellent feedback and Indicators of Interest (IOI) from a number of Young Hotties, age 25-30 or even less. I haven’t yet bedded one of these, although I have hopes of succeeding. I have been watching a lot of much younger and more aggressive guys than me operating with them, and they don’t have any greater success. I have been hanging around a major Party Beach in southern California. At first I was hanging around a hot club there (yes, guys past 50 *do* sometimes go to clubs where young hotties hang out, and seem to do no worse than younger guys). For various reasons, I decided to change that approach, not the least being having to drive home at 2:00 AM. One PUA I ran into exiting the club had a remarkably ballsy approach: instead of hanging around inside the club all night, he and his buddy stood outside on the sidewalk at the 1:30 AM closing time, trying to snare some pussy heading out. He has a very aggressive attitude and I am sure that he must succeed sometimes, although he did not succeed the day I met him. He greeted me as a fellow PUA , and I regret not actually making his acquaintance. Hopefully I will later. A better approach (for me) has been to hang around somewhere, and look for significant IOIs. At the beach area I'll sit on the seawall, or get coffee, or beer at a beachside bar. Elsewhere I just hang around wherever hotties are found, and try to act Alpha. I chat up any babe who seems interested. If the conversation keeps going long enough, and we end up doing kino , etc., I can generally bed her. It’s sort of like fishing: toss out the bait, and see who nibbles. I recently got a *wonderful* IOI from a stunningly beautiful tall European babe, only about 28, who was waiting for a bus. We chatted a bit, I pointed out that she was about to get on a bus going in the wrong direction, and straightened her out. Her eye contact with me was simply astonishing. I got her email and her workplace (a café), and will definitely follow up. Notice that I am not using any “patterns”, or “cold walkups.” For those who are, if they work for you, that’s great. I merely want to point out that getting babes is *not* a “one size fits all” activity. A question: one poster said that the “strict Daddy” approach is the best way for an older guy to get younger chicks. I don’t see that in the glossary. Can somebody please explain what that is, and how it works?

Ritual: Ritual (formerly Josh) has a new online seduction course available. You can check it out at: www.PowerSeduction.com

David: Is there anyone married (besides me) out there who's practicing this stuff? I'm trying to figure out how to modify the basic Speed Seduction techniques for a situation where you have a wedding ring on. I'd appreciate any advice anyone has. Also, does anyone know of any Lair groups in New York City? I'd like to join one.

Cliff's Comments: Assuming that you are doing this covertly, I think you need to be very direct with your target and be satisfied with the women who don't mind going out with a guy who is married - there are a lot of women who will date married men and if you are clear with them up front, you only have one woman to worry about who might find out what you are up to. Obviously I don't know your situation but I personally would like to think that if I was married I would not want to be still looking (or, if I was still looking, it would be to share with my wife ; ) and not to substitute for what is missing). Have you gotten Major Mark's Scoring with Married Women book? See www.trucor.com .