It was all voice tonality, attitude, initiative, and balls

Ross:
> Jeff Y: I think I've set a new record. 6 girls in a row have flaked out on meeting me. Can anyone top that? Is there anyone who used to get this a lot a found a way to overcome it?

Ross: Flakiness is one of my pet peeves and favorite topics. I've written a lot about this before. First, look at the age range of these girls. Most of them, it appears, are still TEENAGERS. Just because they have women's bodies doesn't mean you can expect them to act like ADULTS. Girls at this age have lives ruled by their whims of the moment, the stress of the uncontrollable, turmoil of being independent for the first time, bad home lives, etc. etc. etc. NOTHING is real to them beyond the next 24 hours.
> Here's a breakdown of the girls: Mindy 18, 9 - She actually did meet me for coffee and before we left she asked me to go out with her on Saturday, but when I call her she doesn't answer. I leave a message telling her to call me when she gets this, and I never hear from her. (Funny thing is, during our first meeting she said she always does what she says she'll do.)

Ross: Dude..she's 18, a hottie, and gets so much attention, she doesn't know what to do with it. She's enjoying her power, and why shouldn't she? And it seems you are following HER lead, calling her on Saturday...whose idea was THAT? Girls this young need a VERY firm lead.
> Norma 24, 9 - Stopped her as she got off the elevator at school. She was wearing a Winnie the Pooh watch so I started asking her about which characters she liked the most. She was acted very shy but chatted with me for a minute then I told her I'd like to meet her for coffee sometime and she says ok and asks if I want her number. I finally get a hold of her a week later and she's acting REALLY shy and stand offish which I ask her about. I say how she tends to hold people off at a distance at first and has hard time feeling comfortable right away with someone. She agrees then I ask her to meet me the next day. We agree on a time and she gives me her address to pick her up but tells me to call her before coming over (I hate it when they do that), but I say ok. I call her the next day and no answer.

Ross: Again, note that test. Whenever I hear that my answer is, "Why would I want to do that when we can make a real plan NOW?"
> Angelica 19, 7.5 - I've noticed this girl checking me out several times at school and we had smiled at each other a couple of times. One day a few weeks ago, I'm in the computer lab and her and this other guy sit across from me. He's hitting on her big time. I'm feeling under the weather this day and when I cough she says "God bless you" to me. I tell her I didn't sneeze but thank her anyway. A little while later, the guy leaves and I cough again and she asks me if I sneezed and I say no. Then a little later I borrow a pen from her then return it with a note that basically says I've been wanting to meet her and I'd like to meet for coffee. She laughs and says sure and we set up a time (almost two weeks later because of our conflicting schedules).

Ross: Two weeks? Dude, at 19, two DAYS is too long a time for something to remain real...unless it is the guy who REALLY burned them in the 10th grade. THAT they will remember into their 30's!
>She asks me if I want her number and then writes it down for me. I try calling her the following Sunday and she is not home. I call Wednesday (2 days before date) and her sister answers and tells me I'm calling too late and won't let me talk to her. So I don't call again.

Ross: Timing is all wrong. ALL wrong.
> Brenda19, 7.5 - See her sitting alone in the library at school and I introduce myself and sit down at her table. I had been practicing SS at home and managed to work some in during the intro with this one. She seems to be eating it up, then I use Sis's 'do you have email' line. She doesn't but cracks up when I ask if she has electricity and gives me her number without hesitation. Then she also gives me her work number and tells me I can reach her better there. Then she asks me for my number so I figure this one's a lock. I call her 3 days later on Tuesday.

Ross: The only thing that is a lock is that she is enjoying your attention. That could be ALL that it is. You see...what are you doing to stick in her mind? You are assuming she is already attracted to you, based on her behavior, when it could just be enjoying the attention. I don't see any patterning or any future pacing her wanting to be with you. You are ASSUMING more of an impact than what you are really having...that is the problem with all this "do you have email" shit. Ok, so she has email...so fucking what? WHAT IMPACT DO YOU NEED TO MAKE ON A CHICK TO GET HER EMAIL? Answer: slim or none. So why expect to have any more when you try to contact her? As for her asking for your number...that probably was so she could call you if YOU never called her. It probably was just a defense against the "they always get my number but never call" fear.
> Fluff talk Me: So what would you say if I were to ask you to meet me for coffee? Her: When? Me: Later today. Her: I'm supposed to go shopping with my mom when I get off work so I don't think I can today. Is that ok? Me: Yeah that's ok. So you can't think of day that would be better?

Ross: You just let her put you off! "Yeah, that's ok". Girls at this age need a strong lead, as in you jokingly saying, "That is SOOOO not ok. I've got Brittany Spears coming over later, so I don't know what the rest of my week will be like. So just tell Mom she can take you later and meet me at 3."
> Her: Uhm how about Friday? No, not Friday, I mean, unless you want to. Me: Friday's fine with me, I'm off of school that day, is that your day off? Her: No, I was thinking after I get off at 6. Me: Ok, that's fine do you want to meet at Starbucks or someplace in Montrose? Her: Uh, call me Friday and we'll figure it out. Me: Ok, I'll talk to you then.

Ross: Wow! What a strong lead you are giving her (not). Don't ask her where she wants to meet...tell her where you will meet her. Look, your big error is treating these flaky girl-women like they are equal partners who can share in the decision making. Christ Jesus, Dude..they are just outta High School. Stop seeing getting them as an affirmation of your attractiveness and instead be determined to set a FIRM lead. Anyone under 23 pretty much requires YOU make all the decisions.
> Nora 25, (would be a 10 if not for her hairy arms) - Meet her at the gym. She is drop dead gorgeous. English is definitely her second language, though. I run my gym pattern on her which doesn't go that well because I haven't done it in a while but I go for it and suggest we meet for a drink, and she says she doesn't have much time lately.

Ross: Ok...you aren't calibrating her...she's not responding well and you don't back up and try to get a better response...you go for the pitch anyway. BAD MOVE. Back up, get more rapport, try another doorway in.
>More fluff talk then I ask if she ever goes to Starbucks. She gets excited and says she drinks coffee 5x day.

Ross: Uh.....probably more like crystal-meth. Something is wrong when someone drinks coffee 5x a day, dude.
> She asks if I have my cell phone and I say it is in my locker. Then she asks for my number. I thought she was going to say she'd call me but instead she calls my cell right there so I'll have her number. I call her a few times and she always seems to be busy.

Ross: A few times? Seems to be busy? This is a shit test, my man. Will you take control, tell her to pay attention, and make some kind of firm plan or will you let her put you off with that "I am busy". You cannot approach very young women (or strippers) like they are equal partners in the decision making. WILL...NOT....WORK.
> Then on the same day I called Brenda, I call her and ask her to meet me. Her: When? Me: This afternoon. Her: I have to go to the gym before I go to work. Why don't you come see me at work? Turns out she's a stripper but I don't want to turn into a customer so I just ask when her next day off is and we agree to meet the following Sunday. She suggests we also go to the movies. I decide to do something different with this one and confirm the meeting the day before. Then the next day I call her and she says she's eating with her family but will meet me at four. I ask her to call me if she's running late and she says she will. I go to meet her and she never shows. I call her and leave this message: "Hola Nora, it's 4:50 and we were supposed to meet at 4 o'clock. Obviously something in your environment prevented you from meeting me, and I was just curious as to what that was. You didn't strike me as the type of person who would deliberately interrupt her own opportunities, especially when the first taste was so good. I'm also wondering why you didn't call me to let me know you were going to be late like you said you would. So call me and let me know what the scoop is." She never calls. I see her in the gym a couple days ago and she says she was busy with her mom and is sorry. She also tries telling me that she didn't get my message. I basically tell her that she's full of shit and that I don't think she is sorry. Then leave.

Ross: Strippers ARE basically full of shit. Fuck them the day you meet them or you will not fuck them at all (unless you are willing to use cocaine, crystal meth, etc. as bait).
> Rocsio 19, 8.5 - See her sitting at a chair with no table and I sit in the one next to her. Me: Hi! Her: Hi. Me: Can I ask you a question? Her: Sure Stare for a bit then say, what's your name? Smiles and says Rocsio. Me: Rocsio? What kind of name is that? Her: (Laughs) I don't know. Hispanic I guess, my family is from Mexico and I'm Hispanic. Me: Well, so am I. Her:You are? Me: Yeah. Well, half Hispanic. Her:What else are you? Me: I'm half Mexican and quarter Finnish and a quarter Swedish. (She seems to be impressed) She's wearing lime green sandals and I ask if that's her favorite color. Her: No, I just wanted something different. Me: So then what is your favorite color? Her: Red. Me: You want to see something cool? Then I show her the four magic questions which she really digs and ask what my responses were. Then she comments on how she doesn't like change when we're looking at her answers about death, and I say, "yeah a lot of people are like that. I was reading this book by Bill Phillips that said most people have a tendency to keep looking at the past and not letting go of it. But when a person can let go of their past (point away) and look to your future ( SP ) and you can see your future right in front of you ( SP ) and you know that this is what you really want, then you can have a much more fulfilling life because you're better able to see an opportunity right in front of you ( SP ) when it comes along and you can grab onto this opportunity and go for it." We fluff talk some more, then I ask her if she has email, she does and writes it down, then I say "you know I was thinking if you write down your number I could call you sometime." Without any hesitation she writes it down almost as if I was doing her a favor by telling her to give it to me.

Ross: I keep telling you...asking for email PUTS YOU INTO THE PUSSY CATEGORY. It is saying, "I'm harmless, gee I want a pen-pal...oh, and if you give me your number I could call you sometime pretty please with sugar I don't mean to scare you my darling angel princess." This getting email stuff is crap.
> Then, like Brenda, she asks for my number and email so I think this is a lock, even after getting flaked by Brenda.

Ross: She's being polite. Or following her own little "auto-pilot" program.
> I call her a few days later at 9:30 p.m. and she's very standoffish and I'm feeling very awkward because I never expected it to be so difficult. Then she asks me to call her the next day because her whole family is asleep. I call her two days later in the morning around 10 a.m.

Ross: Look, she probably just is scared of "boys". You know what is lacking in your approaches? Any idea of what kind of PERSON you want to attract. If they look good and are young, that is it...How about drawing to you someone who is OPEN to new learning, eager to explore life, adventurous, etc., etc., etc.? Where are YOUR filters, where YOU will eject on a girl if you don't like her energy/emotions/attitude/answers? I don't see any of the other "Gurus" on this list address this, because maybe they don't give a fuck, or they DO know the traits they look for, and they don't talk about it because the traits are pretty negative and require a lifestyle/set-up to pull these kind of girls that they KNOW you likely don't have and won't or can't get.
> Me: Your family's not asleep are they? Her: (Laughs) No! I couldn't talk the other day because I was in my mom's room and they were trying to sleep. Me: Your family goes to bed pretty early, huh? Her:Yeah, because they have to get up early. Me: I see. Well, I was wondering why you were so standoffish? Her:You mean mean? Me: No, not mean you just sounded annoyed that I was calling you. Her: Well, I wasn't.

Ross: She's probably just uncomfortable around men. SHE'S A KID, for Christ sakes.
> Fluff talk and I use the line I used on Mindy to get her to meet me for coffee and say "can I be totally honest with you. I hate trying to get to know people over the phone so I was thinking we could me at Starbucks and get to know each other better." No response "that is if you're comfortable." She tells me she doesn't know where Starbucks is and that she never goes out. But we agree to meet the next day at a mall behind my apartment which she is familiar with. Then she says she'll call me because she's starting a new job and is not sure when she'll get off work. I swallow this hook line and sinker. Guess what? She never calls. I email her this. Let me guess. Your parakeet got sick all of a sudden so you couldn't meet me and your dog ate my phone number so you couldn't call me to give me the simple courtesy of letting me know you weren't going to make it. I must say I'm surprised. You didn't strike me as the type of person who would deliberately interrupt her own opportunities so I'm wondering what it was that kept you from missing out. If there's one thing that I've learned from living in Houston for 4 years is that beauty is common but people with a great attitude and great outlook on life are rare and they're worth working to get to know. I felt like we connected pretty good when we met and the truth is I was hoping we could have some kind of romantic adventure together or at the very least become good friends. I know you're not too comfortable with change but I'm pretty sure the change I could have made in your life would not have been that bad. It's a shame you couldn't open yourself up to that possibility and that we'll never have the opportunity to see how much this could have enriched our lives. Well good luck, Rocsio. And she sends me this
>> Subject: Re: we were supposed to meet yesterday
>> Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 18:29:16 EDT
>> Jeff, I'm very sorry about yesterday no excuse is good enough. I won't waste your time trying to explain why I could not make it or give you a call. I just want to apologize I'm sorry for everything Rocsio

Ross: Probably she got burned by some guy in the 10th grade and is still obsessing over it. Plus, she comes from something of a traditional family who probably hate the idea of her getting anything in her pussy other than a tampon, and even then, she feels like a slut if the applicator brushes her clit. EJECT! EJECT! Get some standards and some back-bone!
> In addition to these girls there about another ten girls I've gotten phone numbers from but couldn't get to agree on a date or anything. I know I'm not the greatest on the phone but I don't understand why getting a girl to meet you should be so difficult. Especially after what I perceived to be as very positive responses during the first meeting. Any ideas guys?

Ross: Be determined to set a VERY strong lead with these young women. Have standards and eject on the ones who seem impacted, overly shy, etc. Do some patterning to leave them thinking about you in a positive way. Close as soon as possible. Under 23, nothing is real for them for more than 4-5 days, usually more than 2 days!

A guru master:
> Jeff Y: I think I've set a new record. 6 girls in a row have flaked out on meeting me. Can anyone top that? Is there anyone who used to get this a lot a found a way to overcome it?

Me: So what would you say if I were to ask you to meet me for coffee? Her: When? Me: Later today. Her: I'm supposed to go shopping with my mom when I get off work so I don't think I can today. Is that ok? Me: Yeah that's ok. So you can't think of day that would be better? Her: Uhm how about Friday? No, not Friday, I mean, unless you want to. Me: Friday's fine with me, I'm off of school that day, is that your day off? Her: No, I was thinking after I get off at 6. Me: Ok, that's fine do you want to meet at Starbucks or someplace in Montrose? Her: Uh, call me Friday and we'll figure it out. Me: Ok, I'll talk to you then. I call her around 2:30 and they tell me she's out to lunch but take my number and say she'll call me in about half an hour. No call. Even if she didn't get the message she already had my number.

Guru master: Okay, at the risk of insulting you, please allow me to make fun of your approach a little bit : ) You said,"So what would you say if I were to ask you to meet me for coffee?" This is so weak, boring, pathetic, normal, unoriginal, lame and the part I hate the most is that not only are you ASKING (which is bad) but you ask in a WEAK way. "So what would you say IF..." Blech! Be a MAN! Now that I've 'insulted' you, lemme show you a way out. The other day I saw this cute chick on the train (which is where I pick up most of my cuties these days). I'd seen her a few days before and managed to get a friendly smile out of her from afar but I didn't approach her. Anyway, this is basically how I picked her up: Me:"Hi, I've seen you before, haven't I?" Her:"Yes" Me:"You were the one smiling at me the other day, weren't you?" Her: "hehe, I guess" Me:"Don't be embarrassed, women stare at me all the time" (smiling proudly) Her: (laughing, blushing) Me:"Well, you know what they say, 'perception is projection'" Her: (didn't get it, looking embarrassed) Me:"You seem nice...it'll be nice when the train comes because I like to be seen sitting next to a beautiful woman...it's good for my self-esteem" Her:(laughing)
We got on the train and I continued getting to know her & chatting with her. When we got off the train I didn't "ASK" her out, I told her what I wanted in a romantic and charming way. I said, "You know what? I think that a charming young gentleman like myself should at least be given a CHANCE to try and pick you up, don't you?"
She laughed and said yes so I said,"I'm taking you out to lunch" and grabbed her by the hand and LED HER to a nice little restaurant. Oh yeah, I was making out with her before we even got there : )
The point I am trying to make, besides bragging, is that I'm controlling the conversation from the start and I never ASK them I TELL THEM. Huge difference. Women want a leader, not a needy follower seeking permission and approval. Based on your dialogue, you gave her control of the situation, you let HER decide when and where. And it's not working out for you because it's not her role. Call me sexist, call me old-fashioned, call me a pig, but I believe the man should take the lead. Hope this helps.
> I called Brenda, I call her and ask her to meet me. Her: When? Me: This afternoon. Her: I have to go to the gym before I go to work. Why don't you come see me at work? Turns out she's a stripper but I don't want to turn into a customer so I just ask when her next day off is and we agree to meet the following Sunday. She suggests we also go to the movies.

Guru master: Good move on your part (not going to her work). Because if you go to her work then you are her FRIEND or CUSTOMER. Friends and customers don't get laid. Now, if a slut tells me she is gonna call me and doesn't, I never call her again, ever. Fuck her, she can chase after ME. I'm a very unreasonable man. I never chase after women, ESPECIALLY if she's a goddamn stripper. If they stand me up I don't confront them because that's what every other chump does and guilt tripping them into seeing you never works anyway. Fuck 'em, there's other women out there. Since you see her at the gym on a regular basis, I would have just pretended like nothing happened. She would then come and see me to try to apologize/explain and I might say (calmly),"Sorry, I don't do flakes".
Then I'd let HER chase ME for a while. I'm very unreasonable and I'm very impatient.

> Me: You want to see something cool? Then I show her the four magic questions which she really digs and ask what my responses were.

Guru master: 4 magic questions?

> I call her a few days later at 9:30 p.m. and she's very standoffish and I'm feeling very awkward because I never expected it to be so difficult. Then she asks me to call her the next day because her whole family is asleep. I call her two days later in the morning around 10 a.m.

Guru master: WOAH. You called her and she told you 'call me later' AND YOU CALLED HER LATER?? Good puppy. What other tricks can you do? Can you beg too? Come over to my house because I have a cock that needs to be sucked, okay!
See, you gave her the control, but the steering wheel belongs to YOU. Remember that. If a broad says "I'm busy, call me back" then I tell HER to call ME. Control is vital. Give them the steering wheel and you will crash and burn, my friend.

> Me: I see. Well, I was wondering why you were so standoffish? Her:You mean mean? Me: No, not mean you just sounded annoyed that I was calling you. Her: Well, I wasn't.

Guru master: If she wasn't annoyed then she is now!
> She tells me she doesn't know where Starbucks is and that she never goes out. But we agree to meet the next day at a mall behind my apartment which she is familiar with.

Guru master: NO NO NO NO NO! SHE goes where YOU want to go. "I'll be at Starbucks, meet me there." If she doesn't then there's other women out there.

GameMaster (responding to requests for more info on the astrology software he mentioned previously):
I know most guys think astrology is bullshit but I've been studying for about 6 years and found it to be consistently 95% accurate. Horoscopes 'are' bullshit, the science of astrology is not only fascinating to women, but it will save you a lot of time and wasted energy when you understand the basics. I'll make a believer out of any of you guys in 10 minutes. Anyway, the least expensive and easiest to use is "Expert Astrologer". It's about $10 on a closeout rack at CompUSA or Best Buy. But anybody that wants to get seriously into it check out the Astrology for Lovers download at www.world-of-wisdom.com/download.htm It's free shareware for 30 days, then you'll need to fork over $50 to register the software and unlock full utility. It's as good as some of the $300 suites out there and will produce 25 page color reports on every aspect of your relationships. Worth a test drive.
Once you get the basics down you'll know instantly her likes/dislikes, her value system, level of passion, what you can get away with in bed and what you need to avoid, and the best part....the easiest way to end the relationship when it's time to bail. One tip, exact birthtimes are critical for an accurate chart, especially when you're comparing two people.

>> My co-point is this: please, understand that knowing what to observe, knowing what questions to ask, how to recognize powerful responses, anchor and use them: THESE ARE SPEED SEDUCTION PATTERNS. The model of SS that many people are still thinking about on this list comes from 1993, when it virtually WAS almost ALL about "memorized speeches" that you recited back. That has changed enormously over the years; please talk to any student who has the more current material.

>Ross, I know I'm still working off the material from the home study course (and, of course, your Winter 2000 Magick weekend in L.A.), but I'm definitely wanting to update the model (beyond my own additions, of course).

93: What are the latest and greatest products??

Clifford's Comments: Go to www.speed-seduction.com/catalog.htm for Ross's latest and greatest.

> Ross: Powerfully true...hence my 4 levels of the mind theory and theme...

93: Is this the same as the 4 doorways?

> Ross: Well, what have I been saying all along? It works best when you repeat back THEIR OWN WORDS.

93: Here's a fun way of doing that... You know those 'instant poetry' magnets that people put on their refrigerators, that have just one word or a phrase on each one, and you can recombine them to make funny and enlightening new 'poems'? It's just like that: when you hear a trance word or phrase, imagine you're grabbing the word from her mouth on a little white magnet, and just put it on a blank space of the fridge in your mind - a place where you store it with the others, like a 'word pool'. Then all you have to do is pull that word from the 'word pool' and plug it into something you're saying to her - just like you're rearranging the magnets and then reading them to her. And when you're saying the words to her that you know mean something to her, it's funny how it's just like you're playing back a tape-recording of her own tone and tempo. I've always liked playing with those little magnets, and that's just one way to do it.

> Ross: Magick and NLP are very close cousins.....

93: Kissing cousins! Speaking of which, Ross, I'm going to be presenting an NLP /magick thing for my brethren and sistren here in L.A sometime around July... if you'd like to chat about that... I don't know if it's open to the public or not yet, but arrangements are always possible for certain people. Interestingly enough so far my ideas about it are pretty much ENTIRELY different than how your Magick class went, primarily focused on modelling with magickal processes as examples, so they can go out and model better on their own. Although I'm going to go back and think about what you did that I could add, since it's my first group playtime...

> Jeff Y: I think I've set a new record. 6 girls in a row have flaked out on meeting me. Can anyone top that? Is there anyone who used to get this a lot a found a way to overcome it? Here's a breakdown of the girls: Any ideas guys?

93: Jeff, first, congrats for crunching the numbers! You definitely are setting yourself up for success as soon as you can add in a few distinctions. Ok, here goes:
- First, Stop asking them what they want so much! YOU are the one giving THEM the opportunity. Let them know when you are available and let them make a choice. If they seem wishywashy, you need to deepen rapport and build up the loss they will experience if you reject them as well as the pleasure they will experience if they earn your attention. I guarantee that when you've done this correctly, they will be more decisive than you! They will insist on ditching their appointments with Mom, or school or work or the gym, so they can come over and bounce on your lovebone.
- Next, if they flake out on you, use it as a chance to consider how you could have made yourself more desirable to them. Then the next time you talk to them or their answering service, make it clear that they fucked up, that you don't date fuck ups, and that if they want to get together they're going to have to work a lot harder. NOW when you're making this clear, do it sternly but POLITELY. Maintain your respect for them, only disrespect the behavior. You're engaging who they ARE, their identity, and communicating that YOU know they're not wishywashy deep down inside, and YOU'RE not going to allow them to be anything less than their best. And then forget about them. Move on. I guarantee if you've talked to 5 other women since then, they will magically be calling you back with all sorts of ideas about how they can find time to fuck you. It's like people are linked psychically and as you talk to more and more women, these little signals get sent out into the ether that you're one of those 'bad boys' that women love to try and tame. And it's your duty to let them try.
- Fourth, ALWAYS CHECK WHAT A WOMAN SAYS SHE DOES with WHAT YOU CAN PERSONALLY VERIFY. Listen carefully to them. Remember what they say. Repeat their words and phrases back to them in the right tone and tempo. But only BELIEVE what you actually see/hear/feel/smell them do. Smell? you say? Think about it! On a first date if you asked a woman, "Have you ever had a really stinky fart?!", do you think she would admit it? Probably not. (btw, I would save this for another time, personally) Butt I guarantee somebody somewhere has been tortured by one of her stinkiest - her parents could probably back me up on that. So if you don't check what she tells you she does by comparing it to actual observation of what she does, you might as well stick your face in her ass and ask her to push, because you would have set yourself up for some fairly shitty outcomes! Good thing you're smarter than that.
- First and finally, if a woman VOLUNTEERS attention (ala the 'bless you' incidents), jump on her invitation. Reward her instantly so that her unconscious begins to understand that it will get what it wants if it gives you what you want. Make sense?Overall though, you're doing great with those #s, and so now's the time to start considering how much fun you can have with learning to close #s into fucks, or whatever it is you want.

> Me: Well let me ask you this. What do you know about me? Her: That's the difference. I NEVER WANTED TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT YOU!!!!! ROOOAAAAAAARRRRRRR I thought I was gonna die laughing. She cracks me up. How could you help but love a girl that says shit like that? Classic case of words going in one direction and actions going in another. Just trips me out. I finally got her to give me a real birthtime so I could finish her chart.

93: I told this one girlfriend of mine (who is a very accomplished astrologer) that it's all bogus horse doodoo. We've done enough magickal work together that she knows I'm not just yanking her chain, and I've done my homework. But at the same time I've witnessed her put A LOT of energy into relationships that aren't satisfying her even though the charts indicate good things. Meanwhile OUR charts present all kinds of problems, but I give her what she really needs and she keeps coming back! HA! A classic case of words going in one direction and actions going in another. It's all in the stars, baby!

> Don: I have a question about Dating-Insider.com. First question: what do you think about their material?

93: I just delisted from that one. In fact, I delisted from everything but this list; too many limiting beliefs and arbitrary features in most models outside of SS , imo.

Bucky: Here's my review of How to Get All The Girls You Want by Arthur Gordon: This is the first book I ever purchased when I initially got into the seduction hobby. When I first read it (about 2 years ago) I thought it has some helpful insights about attitude and such, but did not have enough specifics.
I recently read the book again for the second time (after two years of studying PUA /seduction stuff and practicing it in the real world), and now I can that Mr. Gordon definitely is the real deal.
I admit that I have not actually seen him work his game in person, but his book touches on many of the aspects of the seduction game that the "experts" of today have refined.
For example, there are a few passages in this book that sound right out of Major Mark's romantic hero description, only Gordon's book was written a few years before Mark's "Scoring with Married Women" book (which is, pound for pound, one of the two or three best seduction products out there). His book is also akin to a version of Louis and Copeland's "How to Succeed with Women" book without all the excess fat that the Louis/Copeland book has. Gordon describes much of the self-improvement stuff that Louis and Copeland talk about and gives good ways to implement them. (Don't get me wrong, "How to Succeed with Women" is a great book, but it still has a lot of filler in it).
Mr. Gordon also seems to have a natural understanding of frames even if he does not talk about them as such.
One of the foundations of his strategy is what is referred to as "stealing frames" these days. As you guys know, "stealing frames" is also the one of the main weapons in the arsenal of one the few, true Masters in the online seduction world, Rick H.
Anyway, the point I'm making is that "How to Get All the Girls You Want" is probably the best book out there in terms of building a solid foundation for the seduction game. It is by far the best book to start out with. I'm mainly recommending it to guys who are starting out or guys who are so overwhelmed with all the seduction information out there that they get caught up in studying it all day but never go out and use it. For you advanced guys out there that have game, this book with most likely put in a different perspective some of the things that you are already doing. It also, has some novel "big chunk" concepts that I have not seen anywhere else. But overall, it is more of a (damn good) beginner's book. For guys that want to learn Speed Seduction, it would be best to start out with this book because it will build a solid foundation. Speed Seduction is great, but I think it is very difficult to learn if you are starting out with little or no previous success with women.
So, for you computer programmers out there that want to learn every detail about SS before doing any approaches, my recommendation is first give "How to Get All the Girls You Want" a read. You can find it at www.howtogetgirls.com

Clifford's Comments: Arthur Gordon is a subscriber to these emails and perhaps soon he'll be making some comments and sharing some of his experience with us.

Shagfu: This weekend, Peter and I headed to Tokyo Bar on St. Laurent Boulevard in Montreal to try out Mystery's Method.
Tokyo's yet another great spot on St.L, I started out by dancing and trying pickups that way - found out it's just not my method. Chicks were giving me annoyed looks and leaving - hell, if I'd been a chick, I would have been annoyed at me too! :-)
Anyway, after initially stalling, Peter and I decided to just go for it, and we spotted a 4-5 set at the bar. Peter explained the method, and he opened on one of the girls.
I stood there like an idiot, feeling like a prop not knowing my exact role in this method. I then turned to one of the chicks, and asked, "so how do guys all know each other?"
Turns out she's a 20-year old fashion design student from Paris, and goes to a local college here. Cute, charming face ( HB 7-7.5), my height, OK body, not great, but still exudes sensuality. She says one of them is her roommate, the others are just friends. She doesn't understand English that well, so I try asking fluff questions in French. I get some responses, but most of the time she either couldn't hear me because of the loudness, or she just didn't understand my bad French. I'm thinking "yet another crash-and-burn," so I go balls-out and go into the pattern of "you know that feeling you get just before you orgasm?" I'm telling this to her in her ear, kinoing her all over her back, shoulders, arms, and hair. Everything I'm saying to her is all sex talk - hell, she doesn't understand anyway, so who cares? :-)
Then I talked about going down on her pussy and how good that feels when I do it - all this in a seductive tone, rubbing and massaging her all over. She withdrew from me and I thought, "shit, I blew it!" But she instead grabbed my hand and commanded to me, "dancez!" Sure, why not? :-) We're dancing for a while. Then I hold her waist and pull her towards me, rubbing her arms, then feeling her up all over. I felt some initial resistance so I carefully paced her physical movements, going only as far as she wanted, to establish rapport. Soon we had a major tongue-down session, making out like crazy on the dance floor. Things are going *REAL* good like this for about 30-45 minutes. It's around 3 a.m. and her friends tell her to go. She tells me she has to go. I then say: "Non, reste ici!" She insists she has to go. "OK, donne-moi ton numero." I pull out my pen and she writes it on my hand. The next day (yesterday) I call her saying I had a good time and I hope she did too. I tell her to meet me that night. She tells me to pick her up at 9 p.m.
I pick her up, and after a few minutes of making out in the car, we go back to the motel and I'll just leave it at that :-)
All in all, a very interesting experience - and experiment. Content was virtually irrelevant - it was all voice tonality, attitude, initiative, and balls.