Tonality covers a multitude of sins

Joseph (from Exceed International): Four essential types of men tend to attract women
1) The Daring Adventurer: He's the man who acts impulsively, throws caution in reckless abandon in order to spontaneously embark on high-stimulation endeavors. He lives for the moment and holds a vague inkling of the future. The man's focus is solely for the present and on sheer short-term emotional pleasure.
2) The Dark Vagabond: He's the man who oozes an almost anti-social character. With leanings towards the unethical to the downright immoral, this man is known for womanizing, substance abuse and most activities that appear to go against social norm. Despite the negativity he attracts both the sensible and "dumb" blonde kind of girl. Women fantasize about taming such volatile creatures.
3) The Ideal Lover: Oh yeah, we recognize him for the poetry, the smooth lines, the sensitivity, the utter empathy and almost selfless focus upon the woman. He manifests a level of high morality, or at least a superficial appearance of it. Women love this man because of the intense romancing they experience from him.
4) The Clown: He may not physically look good, but his upbeat sense of humor and lively optimism sparks enthusiasm in women which then lead to infatuation , then attraction. This man, as I've observed in numerous social gatherings, tends to enjoy the limelight. He cracks jokes, spins incredible tales and makes everyone feel good. As a result, both genders in general gravitate towards this individual.

The Man every woman hates:
1) The Vanilla-Boy Next Door: Predictable, routine and devoid of imagination. He possesses adequate social skills but is neither aggressive, funny, spontaneous, nor romantic. The lack of "emotional massage" he creates on women shrouds him with a cloak of invisibility. Hence he is the perennial loser.

My conclusion: It then naturally appears that for any man (good looking or not) seeking attention and subsequent infatuation from the opposite gender, ought to play solely upon the EMOTIONS of women. His primary goal is to incite within women, intense emotions (whether romantic, fearfulness, laughter or adventure) because strong emotions naturally arouse a pleasurable and exciting rapport. As we are well aware, women traditionally derive great satisfaction from emotionally charged events and encounters. A relationship devoid of emotions at the onset immediately create a negative first impression which instantly cause the woman to box you in the Vanilla Boy category. The bottom line: It is the male's ultimate mandate to use any and all means necessary to spike initial encounters with emotionally charged conversations and activity (of whatever flavor) because the ensuing excitement automatically creates the desired rapport that ultimately leads to irresistible attraction.

Ross:
> GameMaster (Comments from private email about online dating): I know the top 5% get deluged with mail and sometimes they don't have the time to write back. I'm sticking primarily with the 34 and up crowd, I've found that is pretty much the threshold to be able to appeal to their sense of fair play when it comes to a reply. Lot's of very pretty girls on match.com down here just because the bar scene is so brutal and the nitelife in this city has sort of lost it's luster with most people. Still a pro- players town.

Ross: I like that distinction; 34 and up. It may also help to pick women who have already been married once; divorced women aren't so much in a hurry to run to the altar again and are less likely to demand "Mr. Right".
> GameMaster: I just make a list of the girls and copy their profile over to Word and then edit it down and send it back to em'. Or it could just be my devastating charm : )?

Ross: Do you have a form letter? I've been playing with a few and have one that gets a HUGE response (especially since I hid my profile....now, they can't check my profile and eliminate or pigeon hole me).

Clifford: You dangle the carrot, too. I am sure we ALL are curious now to see your letter.
> GameMaster: Some tips on Match.com: Now that I boil my experience of the last 6 months down, I've found the 3) I cut and paste their profile to Word and then write a witty one paragraph response and mail them out once a week, or when the moon's in Libra : ))) With persistence I've gotten my hit rate up to 70-80% with a 90% close rate after meeting. It's just not fair.

Ross: How do you handle the pic problem? I am STILL getting eliminated WAY too often, based on my pic. I can't refuse to send one or I won't get a meeting...at some point they want to see what I look like. I am thinking of setting a challenge frame...seeing if I can get them to chat on the phone for some light patterning/voice charm and THEN send it. What are your experiences...remember, I do NOT have a profile up...that has worked to get me more initial response to my emails.

Clifford: I think you need to visit a good photographer. I think that, having seen you mesmerize some of the women who sat in your seminars that I attended, that a good photographer should be able to capture that presence, that dynamism that you project in front of the class and you should be getting a great response to such a photo.
> GameMaster: 5) get them on the phone and talking as soon as possible and make the most of it. The fucking email thing could go on forever with some of these chicks. Oh yeah, and when they ask for more pictures I send them a pic of my dog Elvis and tell them that's what I look like today. It's really bizarre but they stop asking for more photos at that point and I usually get something back like "you're even more handsome than I thought".

Ross: Yes, but at some point they DO see a pic of you and decide they want to talk to you because your looks are ok, or they LIKE your looks. So...what are you doing to deal with the pic problem and how would you handle it if you just don't photograph fucking well?
> Clifford: You can give a woman orgasms just by talking to her and some women shouldn't be called for 5 days after you meet her. And, now that I think about it, telling some women they are beautiful is the wrong thing to

do. But none of these are absolutes -- they are all situation specific but definitely not complete nonsense.

Ross: That is my point; rather than set rules for all people, why not learn to observe the unique person in front of you and test to see what she responds to? Surely, this is self-evidently the intelligent way to go.
> Mark B.:Whenever I wanted to bang her I said "hey, you look so hot and sexy right now, I want to make love to you" and began kissing her and undressing her and slept with her every time. I wanted her to do a strip show for me so I simply asked her "I would like you to do a strip show for me" and she did. When I met her, I said "I would like to take you out with me." Then just focused on being fun and easy, kissed her on the 1st date, told her she was hot and that I wanted her. How much easier could this be? Why fuck around with techniques when all it takes is a simple direct expression of what you want while being focused on her, fun and relaxed with a smile. .... There is a guy in my office who has a beer belly the size of a spare tire yet he brought to our office Christmas party a HB9 with huge breasts. I took him aside and asked him how he was able to get her and he said "I was just honest. I told her I was attracted to her and that I wanted to be with her." But, like I said before, if someone came out and said that in a system it would not sell because in order to make sales "the higher the degree of perceived complexity the greater the perceived value and higher the sales".

Ross: Hey, if a woman is ALREADY ATTRACTED TO YOU, being direct about what you want certainly will work. Here is the point that guys like Mark just are NOT getting or aren't willing to acknowledge: If a woman is NOT attracted to you, clearly stating what YOU want from her will NOT MAKE HER MORE ATTRACTED TO YOU. Mark keeps ignoring context. What works, works in the context of what the woman ALREADY feels for you. Mark has mentioned, time and again, that women approach him based SOLELY ON HIS LOOKS. Well, duh. If a woman is drooling over your appearance, telling her what you want is probably going to be well received, versus being "average looking" and not having her want you much, if at all. Context. Context. Context. For those of you who don't understand that simple word, I'll explain. Context INCLUDES, but isn't limited to: 1. The physical environment 2. What she is already feeling for/about you 3. Her perception of who she is, what she is used to doing, who and what she is used to liking. 4. Interferences: emotional and external. Is she distraught because her Mom just died of cancer? Is she being forced to work 80 hours this week to finish a crucial project? Did her girlfriend, who hates your GUTS, really go to work on her to convince her not to see you? As the SEALS teach: targets dictate weapons. Weapons dictate movement. The more you know about your " target ", INCLUDING THE CONTEXT, you and she are operating in, the better you are going to do. Now, if simply TELLING a woman how YOU feel and what YOU want worked to get her hot and bothered for you, zillions of AFC chumps who have crushes on women would suddenly be fucking their brains out with their dream girls, just by "revealing their true feelings". However, we KNOW from very painful experience, what happens when we tell a girl how WE feel, when SHE feels little or NOTHING for us. When has this EVER changed a girl's mind?

AdamK.:
>Dean: The best and safest way to get a tan is to use the solariums/sunbeds. When you expose yourself to the sun you are exposing yourself to both UV A & B rays, one gives you the tan, the other gives you sunburn and puts you at risk of skin cancer. The Solariums/Sunbeds only expose you to the UV B rays and thus eliminate the risk of skin cancer. Constant tanning though, even from a sunbed, can age you faster. A good Aloe Vera moisturizer is recommended, this also helps in relieving sunburn. Also, a tan from a sunbed doesn't prevent you from getting burnt, unlike a real tan and you still need to use sunscreen.

AdamK: This is just plain wrong. Tanning beds are even worse than getting a tan from the real sun. Tanning salon owners like to argue that you can more accurately "moderate" the amount of sun that you're getting, with the beds. Kind of like moderating how much arsenic you drink. Truth is: You're holding extreme rays only 2 inches from your skin. Ask any independent dermatologist: The quickest way to skin cancer is to use a tanning bed. I've seen young (19 year old) girls with big hunks of flesh that had to be taken out of their face... scarred for life... because of their use of tanning beds. Here's a tip: I have a great, year-around tan. How? Sunless tanners have made incredible progress in the last two years. Check out the web site: www.sunless.com The best is one called Au Courant. But I've used Banana Boat spray on my legs and have had several women comment and ask how I was able to get such a nice tan in the beginning of June. ($7 at Walgreens, and it's 100% safe). Experiment with which brand works best for you. Application of a good sunless tanner can take some practice, but when you get it right... it's amazing! A good sunless tanner will leave you tanned like a natural tan. Not orangey or yellow.

NightLight9: Commenting on Crisonic's 'angry approach' I have often thought something like this would work, but I don't have the balls to try it. It demonstrates total alpha characteristics and great congruency. I do have a slightly related 'approach' where when women are walking by, I put my hand up (as you would to stop someone) and say "stop!!! stop it!!!" This is pretty effective where women have a bitch shield. You can do it deadpan leading to a smile or with a big smile. I base this on the girl. Either way it needs to come off like a father scolding a child. It really generates curiousity and rarely has a negative response. Timing and delivery are very important so you'll have to experiment a little. I wonder how this would work if you just remained looking angry, instead of smiling. Never tried it as it's not my personality.

Mark B.: Have a look at this quote I found on the net: "In the particular form of psychotherapy I had, we learn about the three levels of consciousness and the three groups of sub-organs of the brain. Many men, will display their fascination for everything sexual, but in reality a man wants a woman that he can have a stimulating conversation with (Third Level, Cortex) a woman to laugh with, share tears and joy and be partners when there is the need to grieve (Second Level, limbic system) and a woman to have hot sex with (First level, brain stem). All people wish to be approached in that order, Third, Second, then First. Many men think about dating in the reverse order, and fail. They need to appreciate the realities of our nervous systems and minds and treat women in the right order in the quest to share deep love for a special person in their entirety. -David from Venice, CA"

MB: So it seems conversation first, then having fun and being easy to evoke feelings of feeling good about being with you then the physical side comes next. Looking back at virtually all the women I have successfully dated and slept with it always started out with an easy conversation followed by having fun and laughter followed by the physical. But if I tried to sleep with her before establishing a good level of communication and feelings of ease and laughter it always backfired. On the other hand, it seems if you have the two already, good conversation and are having fun and laughing, and you do not go for the physical then she thinks you are not interested and will say "let's just be friends" or "you are not interested in me" like a few women have said to me when I failed to make the move while the conditions were present. It seems this is a natural order and trying to skip the steps or stall at one of them before moving into the next one backfires. I have put this into a nice little formula for myself: Initiate contact, complement her and show genuine interest, have a good conversation filled with lots of smiles, fun, laughter, and ease avoiding talk of other women or relationships. (Not other women because the one you are with needs to feel special like your mind is only on her and not relationships because that will happen as a by product of you having fun with her and also you do not want to come off as desperate). Then once these are established show your physical interest in her to which she will very likely respond. I keep in mind to make sure she knows I am attracted to her as well as focused only on her with the goal of just having fun. After all women want to be cherished and adored. Superimposed on my past experience this formula worked like a charm and now when I do it the results are highly profitable.
>Clifford: You can give a woman orgasms just by talking to her and some women shouldn't be called for 5 days after you meet her. And, now that I think about it, telling some women they are beautiful is the wrong thing to do. But none of these are absolutes -- they are all situation specific but definitely not complete nonsense.

MB: Well, call me naive but I have yet to find myself or anyone else who can give women an orgasm just by talking to them, not calling a woman for 5 days and then getting a positive response after 1st meeting from her or telling her she is beautiful and have it backfire. So far it seems that these things are supposed to be theoretically true yet in the real world.........Besides why would I want a woman who cannot take an honest complement, low self esteem????? NO thanks.
>Clifford: While I agree that being direct (aka being honest) is the best approach, it doesn't always work the way you are describing and a lot of women do not give in so easily without some real warming up.

MB: The key is progressing through the right stages as described above. But I would say to her within 5 minutes of meeting "hey how about a strip show" in a joking way if I feel she feel relaxed enough with me to take it. I feel that placing a humorous spin on what you say allows you to get away with saying almost anything.
> Cliff: The reality of "systems" is that everyone's skill levels are different. I have seen guys pick up SS over the course of a weekend seminar and have massive immediate success.

MB: Is that because they said so or because you saw them do it? And how do you define success? Talking to a woman, getting a number, a date, a boning session? Besides to a guy who has trouble talking to women just being able to talk to them is massive success. Are you also suggesting that guys who before could not get laid if they were the last mammal on earth suddenly get laid like crazy within days or weeks just because they know how to recite patterns or can control their states?

Clifford: I have seen guys approach women who previously gave me the impression of being too shy to do so, who have succeeded in getting phone numbers, closing that night, etc. Not everyone, clearly, gets these results but some guys just seemed to have needed to be put on the right track and they just fell right into place. And I am not suggesting that the most socially inept of the group were the ones that became successful - as I have tried to say, it varied based on the individuals. Some became highly successful, some started getting success, others had no results, etc. But there were several that I would have put in the "very limited social skills" category who turned themselves around very quickly. And I saw these with my own eyes.
> Dean: Commenting on getting a tan, coming from an Aussie and as you should all know, Australia has the highest incidence rate of skin cancer in the world, you can get a tan. You just don't get a tan from the sun, that's all. A tan really does makes you look healthier and is more attractive to women........When you expose yourself to the sun you are exposing yourself to both UV A & B rays, one gives you the tan, the other gives you sunburn and puts you at risk of skin cancer. The solariums/Sun beds only expose you to the UV B rays and thus eliminate the risk of skin cancer.

MB: I found this also to be the case. Since I started tanning in a bed about once every 4 to 5 days for about 25 minutes at a time I found that women approach me more often and are more receptive to my initial approach and make more positive comments on my looks than before. This has nothing to do with personality or confidence, just looks period, as they make comments and approach me before any dose of personality or confidence from me. Case in point: I am sitting at the back of a strip club a few weeks ago watching a hot feature stripper do her show. She throws out her regular dose of posters then she picks up her last poster, motions to me at the back of the club to come up closer to the stage so she I could catch her last pic. I approach and she throws it to me. I go back to my seat. During her 4 songs, she threw out maybe 10 of them. After that I was the only one she came up to in order to autograph her pic. Then she says "I love to travel. You look like you have been somewhere recently" You can check her out at www.bikini69.com .
> A guru master: Mark, it never ceases to amaze me how comfortable you are in talking so deeply about sex with your sister. She is lucky to have a bro like you. Could you please explain to the rest of us insecure/immature dumb asses HOW you are able to talk so freely about sex with your little sister? I mean, you even recommended to her that she should get into the porn business! What are your views on this?

MB: I am not sure how to take this question from you? What do you mean by "insecure/immature dumb asses" and why do you find it amazing? Regarding your question we just have been very open with each other as far back as I can remember. (I am 28 and she is 23.) It just seems the way to be as our whole family is very open about sex in discussion and in general as we never attached any shame or guilt to anything to do with the human body or human desires. I guess this is why it's so easy for me to tell women I want them. I tell her about what I do with women and in turn she tells me what she does with her men as if is no big deal actually, like a normal conversation. But if I had to think about it I would say that I guess I am open to her first and then on that basis she opens up to me. I tell her "yeah, I ate out an HB yesterday and she tasted like vanilla coffee" She would say "Mark, you sick bastard but yeah, my BF was over last night and he fucked me 3 times and blew in my mouth, ha ha ha" We make a joke out of it and both laugh. But it's great because we offer each other advice on relationships and are both much further ahead. I divulge all of my secrets to her and she let's me in on what women think. Regarding the porn business, since she looks like Jenteal in real life I made a joke out of it to call her a porn star and suggest she gets into the business knowing she is too smart to actually do it. She is doing a masters in sports therapy, she does not sleep around, always uses condoms and always takes her time to get to know a guy before she sleeps with him so being this open did obviously not hurt. However on another point I am equally open regarding sex and all sorts of bodily functions with all women I meet and they inevitably become equally open with me. I find that when I open up first it frees them to also open up. Just like when I tell them I want them it frees them to feel and express that they want me.

Mark B. (Commenting to B.L.): Better to say "I want to make love to YOU" rather than "I love to fuck." Saying you just want to fuck makes it seem that you want to use her as a piece of meat. Many guys think they are appealing to her by being "open" to sex when in fact they turn her off. I have never had a woman slap me, run away or otherwise turn away when I told her I wanted to make love to her. In fact, after indicating my sexual interest in her, women tend to come close and develop a greater contact with me. To me, this seems to be the ultimate compliment to woman as long as the focus is on YOU MAKING LOVE TO HER, not just making love or fucking in general. Subtle but important.
> B.L.: This is great stuff. I've actually tried this before, and while I didn't get to fuck this girl, she totally seemed to get into me. She didn't react badly at all. She basically just said, "Really? Why is that?" No slap, no running away...It was a pure 100% positive result. She opened up to me after that. I didn't even realize the value in it until now. What I want to know is when do you usually use this? It seems to me to be too strong for an opener, but maybe quite soon after starting conversation? Do you use this at a certain point in your pick up? What about on younger, more immature girls, have you had the same results with them?

MB: Also see my first comments above. When you ask out a woman and she agrees to go out with you WHY THE FUCK IS SHE THERE??? To talk about the weather, sports, pets, your dead uncles. NO, she is there because of something that she stands to gain from you as a woman and you being a man it is your obligation to give it to her. Once there is an obvious comfort level between the two of us as indicated by laughter, a flow to conversation, some light touching, eye contact, etc. I decide that there is a connection there and it's a good time to let her know I want her. But I make sure I let her know I think she is attractive throughout our time together. Each and every time when I told a woman I wanted to make love to her, women have endeared themselves to me. Even though I do not get to sleep with all the women I say this to, they suddenly initiated more conversations, begin calling more and become generally much more receptive to anything to do with me. Regarding pickups my opening line is "You know I could not help to notice but I think you are a stunningly beautiful woman" then I engage her in conversation, make her laugh, ask her out, more conversation on anything fun, get her to laugh more and feel easy then once that is in place I tell her I want her and 30%-50% of the time I get her with some persistence. BUT if I hold back and wait when the conditions of comfort are present women say LJBF or "you are not interested in me, Mark." Regarding age, I target women 25 and up so younger than that I would not know about but I do not see how it should be different other than maybe it requires more work to get them to feel easy with you.

Dwacon (Saajan Ke Ghar Jaana Hain www.dwacon.com):
> GameMaster (Comments from private email about online dating): I know the top 5% get deluged with mail and sometimes they don't have the time to write back.

Dwacon: I also find many wimmin who write back, then you reply to them and never hear another peep. I took some material from Ross and tweaked and tweaked and it gets quite the response... but I suppose I need a good uppercut to take them down after the right hook. Another thing I've noticed is that when you sign on to a singles' service, you get a ton of emails from some girl with a ridiculously perfect picture and she says stuff like she doesn't care how ugly you are, she just wants you to... but first, check out her web site and put in your credit card to see her pictures. Yeah... and I can imagine tons of AFCs who fall for this.
> GameMaster: They have a feature where they show that you are "Logged in Now" and the girls have told me that's a turnoff when they find that we are cruising "for them while they're surfing for us. Doesn't make any sense but these are women we're dealing with.

Dwacon: That's why I've adopted a "no mercy" approach when sarging a woman. Their lack of logic is painful.
>Cliff: The reality of "systems" is that everyone's skill levels are different. I have seen guys pick up SS over the course of a weekend seminar and have massive immediate success, and others who have studied everything and couldn't get their act together if their life depended on it.

Dwacon: I remember the day I got Ross' book in the mail about 4 or 5 years ago. I called this chick off the personals line and was literally reading paragraphs of the book to her... she was knocking on my door within the hour and her panties came off before I could finish opening the bottle of wine. Later, I met some wimmin who couldn't be sarged if I had a thousand dollar bill taped to my forehead. It's kinda like Las Vegas... TO ME anyway. But I like to turn the odds more in my favor. I do notice that tonality covers a multitude of sins and I do worse in clubs with the loud music pounding.
> Ciz: I think, similarly to guys who get into the exclusive relationship, engagement, marriage sort of thing, there are also guys who get, "type casted," into the adventurous, one night fling, multiple girlfriend, sort of thing. Maybe girls can sense this. Sort of like the movie audiences that only accept Arnold always in action movies. We need to somehow becomes guys like Robert De Niro, who can play tough guys, eccentric guys, mentally deranged guys, Mafioso, CIA agents, etc. Somehow, something we project sends out the, "not for relationship!" vibe. I do not know what it is. This may give certain advantages to getting the quick fuck, and maybe there is a reason why certain guys unconsciously exude this.

Dwacon: I'm pretty convinced this is my case. I'm still working on how to make this work to my advantage. I first became aware of it when, about six years ago, a colleague accused me of harassing her at work. She was interrogated and it pretty much came out that I had very little interaction with her... never asked her out, never touched her, never said more than two or three words for her. But her feeling was that when I looked at her she felt as if she were naked. That made no sense to me at the time... still doesn't... but it is a known constant that men act on what they see and women act on the hidden meaning behind what they see... even if there is no hidden meaning there. Back when I worked at that company, I responded to this accusation by being extra nice and avoiding conflict. This was tantamount to dousing a roaring fire with a bucket of gasoline. These days (although I still walk on eggshells around the workplace) when a woman gets this way I use NLP to turn it around... to take what she is projecting on me and putting it where it truly belongs... between her thighs.Anyway... exuding a certain je ne sais quoi (how's my French?) works to my advantage when I let it.
> Ciz: I think one of the things of girls knowing that you have other girlfriends or have a wild sexual history is that it attracts the younger, sexually adventurous girls.

Dwacon: In my area, it is the 18-19 year olds that fall into that role. Any older and they're already carrying more baggage than a squadron of red caps can handle. Thought balls also work great on those girlz... go figure.
> Mark B: My little sister called me today and admitted that she slept with her new boyfriend for the first time. This is the same guy who she told not to call her again because he talked too much about his other women. He kept on being persistent and finally scored.

Dwacon: I met this little Janet Jackson lookalike via the personals and she was like, "no, I won't kiss you." This kept on for a while. So I just grabbed her and kissed her. She was like offended for a second, then got hot and we wound up bouncing the mattress. Something about me just taking it turned her on.